Plane of Fear Trains...

[FiindingEmo]

So today, 2/22/2025 Cazic Thule spawned and the race was on to get him. 4 Guilds raced to be the one to claim his head, but a subtle thing towards that goal happened. Myself, including a couple others were just casually hunting the spectres in Feerrott. In a span of roughly 30-40 minutes I was trained 3 times, to where luckily I could FD in time without dying, but I watched another get killed because of it.

After some frustration, I OOC'd about the disregard towards others trying to level there and to be considerate of the trains you bring, to which I was taunted by someone. One person of that same guild was kind enough to apologize and offer buffs to help out some.

My question is, why is the acceptable behavior and what should be done about it?

Castle, Good Guys, Kingdom and Safe Space...Where is the integrity of the game at that point and if the same happened to you, how would you feel?

Attachment is a little screenshot of the taunter. Was informed he wasn't popular in the guild to begin with, but I have no real info regarding him other than this interaction.

[shovelquest]

Isn’t that bannable? Get obs and let’s have some ban waves!

[FiindingEmo]

I petitioned it, and named the guilds that were doing it. But who knows what will happen, figured posting here might bring a little awareness to it.

[Ekco]

you'd have to get fraps of the specific player(s) doing the training i think, just one dude havin a giggle in ooc isn't enough

this is one of those, you should prolly be proactive about kinda things also, like wtf we're you actually doing once you knew CT was up? and the first dodged train kiting the middle spectres while ones outside we're up? literally standing on the train tracks waiting for the next group of people to coming running towards portal.

filed under everyone involved is a shitter
main character syndrome of OP

and i'll speak for all 4 guilds now and say they all concede spectre camp to you for the trains, from now until the heat death of the universe.

petition resolved.

[Trexller]

OP is tryin to grind xp in the path that leads to a zone line

OP is surprised when he gets trained

[shovelquest]

I petitioned it, and named the guilds that were doing it. But who knows what will happen, figured posting here might bring a little awareness to it.

awareness is for fun, but if you want something done about it video them training you and just say "i was trained" in your petition. Im pretty sure that will get the mat least a temp ban.

[Swish]

Imagine if you could have actually done something about it :o

https://i.imgur.com/IVNETg4.jpg

[Reiwa]

The short answer is spectres reappear every 6m40s and Cazic Thule reappears in about a week.

[Reiwa]

also

https://i.imgur.com/DQ2hOxI.png

[Videri]

I ran in there and managed to use Sneak to avoid dragging a spectre around.

A question: if there were 3+ people exping on the spectres, why were there so many spectres alive for people to get trained with?

Also, in the future, whenever I log in or port in for CT, I'm going to /ooc to the zone that a bunch of delirious pepega raiders are about to run wildly through the spectre maze, and that the expers should seek shelter until the mad rush is over.

[Ekco]

oocing that players can/are about to run through the caves feels like putting spoiler alerts infront of 25+ year old movies.

spoiler alert, Neo isn't the one

spoiler alert, Jack dies at the end of titanic

spoiler alert, when a raid mob is up in everquest, don't be between it and 100 fucking people running full speed at it.

[Jimjam]

Are we so bad at this 25 year old game we are XPing ‘on the tracks’?

or are we so bad at this 25 year old game we are getting lost in one of the simplest mazes in the game, even though we have been attempting to solve this maze every single week (several times a week) for years?

[shovelquest]

oocing that players can/are about to run through the caves feels like putting spoiler alerts infront of 25+ year old movies.

spoiler alert, Neo isn't the one

spoiler alert, Jack dies at the end of titanic

spoiler alert, when a raid mob is up in everquest, don't be between it and 100 fucking people running full speed at it.

is there a one? or was there just no, one?

[shovelquest]

Are we so bad at this 25 year old game we are XPing ‘on the tracks’?

or are we so bad at this 25 year old game we are getting lost in one of the simplest mazes in the game, even though we have been attempting to solve this maze every single week (several times a week) for years?

no one is bad at this game, we are all one consciousness.

[Ekco]

is there a one? or was there just no, one?

i honestly don't remember, i think that architect scene explains it but fuck if i know, it's the same with Dune, Paul isn't the dude either, but it's still a good movie.

[Ciderpress]

iirc there are a few long deadends in spec caves you can pull them to and be safe in the event of a CT pop.

[shovelquest]

I would love to do a study to see how many of these high level players that trample on lower level ones are socialists IRL.

[Hellfox]

i honestly don't remember, i think that architect scene explains it but fuck if i know, it's the same with Dune, Paul isn't the dude either, but it's still a good movie.

"Paul isn't the guy."

The guy sees in real time with prescience after a tactical nuke deletes the soft tissue in his orbital cavities. Otherwise the Fremen would have abandoned him in the desert like any other blind person. Dune, "Still a good movie." lol, I know you won't open a book, but you can listen to the entire series in one of your "poop socking" sessions. Better yet, touch paper.

Wait, is that just a whole cloth rip off?

[Ekco]

"Paul isn't the guy."

The guy sees in real time with prescience after a tactical nuke deletes the soft tissue in his orbital cavities. Otherwise the Fremen would have abandoned him in the desert like any other blind person. Dune, "Still a good movie." lol, I know you won't open a book, but you can listen to the entire series in one of your "poop socking" sessions. Better yet, touch paper.

Wait, is that just a whole cloth rip off?

Paul is literally 3rd in DBZ power level, Leto II is the actual prophesied one, and Alia is stronger than Paul, the first book and the 80s movie is good, the navigators are 10x more cooler in the movie than than the dumb sprite looking things iirc their description correctly.

and the rest of the books are straight up garbage my dude lol, like if you not only finished Messiah and Children but actually liked them... Oooookay. only cool part about that entire 2nd or it was the third book was the knowledge temple or w/e Paul hid on another planet, one cool paragraph in the entire book, i literally don't remember anything else other than it being boring as fuck

>but you can listen to the entire series in one of your "poop socking" sessions. Better yet, touch paper.

i don't poopsock or even play anymore, i shit post here and trigger Dune autists apparently, which is argueable worse i admit than actually still raiding in the year of our lord 2025

[cd288]

OP while you're right to be upset and this isn't cool that it happened, it also is classic EQ. Doesn't make it okay to train people, but if you're EXPing in an area where a train is possible (in this case, right in the path to one of the prime raid mobs that people race to get FTE on) that is somewhat on you as well (sounds like they could've communicated that a raid force was incoming though).

If you were sitting in KC killing a couple mobs by the entrance and a group had to train out would you think it was reasonable to get pissed at them? This is the same scenario essentially.

[Rygar]

No one ever got trained in Unrest or Blackburrow

[shovelquest]

BB is where I saw my first train in my entire life!

Me at school, "last night this guy shoults TRAIN! and then like out of nowhere like 50 million gnolls go running by it was amazing!"

[red_demonman]

EXPers hate him!
See how this raider scored his guild a Bone Razor with this one simple trick! :eek:

[loramin]

No one ever got trained in Unrest or Blackburrow

BB is where I saw my first train in my entire life!

Me at school, "last night this guy shoults TRAIN! and then like out of nowhere like 50 million gnolls go running by it was amazing!"

Yeah I'll second that: if you started with a Barbarian (or Qeynos/Surefall Human ... or Erudite, since they all came to Qeynos in classic) you learned what training was in Blackburrow.

[loramin]

Actually, having just re-read Rygar's post ... I think there was an implied "/s".

[Reiwa]

Paul is literally 3rd in DBZ power level, Leto II is the actual prophesied one, and Alia is stronger than Paul, the first book and the 80s movie is good, the navigators are 10x more cooler in the movie than than the dumb sprite looking things iirc their description correctly.

and the rest of the books are straight up garbage my dude lol, like if you not only finished Messiah and Children but actually liked them... Oooookay. only cool part about that entire 2nd or it was the third book was the knowledge temple or w/e Paul hid on another planet, one cool paragraph in the entire book, i literally don't remember anything else other than it being boring as fuck

>but you can listen to the entire series in one of your "poop socking" sessions. Better yet, touch paper.

i don't poopsock or even play anymore, i shit post here and trigger Dune autists apparently, which is argueable worse i admit than actually still raiding in the year of our lord 2025

Neither of them are "the guy". Saviors bad.

[Ekco]

people need a guy though

[Elizondo]

Could just log off for awhile and touch grass

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

If you were sitting in KC killing a couple mobs by the entrance and a group had to train out would you think it was reasonable to get pissed at them? This is the same scenario essentially.

I don’t play anymore but when I was I thought you are supposed to die rather than train people

So when I was too low mana to handle the like 4ish kobolds I had on me back in the day in Solusek, I booked it to the entrance, where I noticed there were 2 people sitting with /AFK up

So I spun around and took my train away where they wouldn’t get social aggro. And I died there. I felt like a hero, laying down my life for total strangers. Well, it also sucked because I usually don’t try for rezzes so lost some exp

But I mostly did it because I thought it was part of the rules. I couldn’t warn them as per the rules because they were afk, so rather than train them I just died myself instead. Is that not the rule? No biggie now, as I said I don’t play

[Trexller]

Is that not the rule? No biggie now, as I said I don’t play

nah if you're sitting at a zone line you understand that you risk getting trained

[Wakanda]

This doesn't make it any less frustrating, but as someone who has done a lot of spectres over the years, I've definitely had more positive interactions with the raiders than negative ones. I get a lot of buffs and stuff. Even had people realize I'm doing specters (which is a sign I'm not AFK I guess? and send Druids to pick me up and take me to City of Mist and stuff to join groups and stuff too, lol).

[Lune]

I don’t play anymore but when I was I thought you are supposed to die rather than train people

So when I was too low mana to handle the like 4ish kobolds I had on me back in the day in Solusek, I booked it to the entrance, where I noticed there were 2 people sitting with /AFK up

So I spun around and took my train away where they wouldn’t get social aggro. And I died there. I felt like a hero, laying down my life for total strangers. Well, it also sucked because I usually don’t try for rezzes so lost some exp

But I mostly did it because I thought it was part of the rules. I couldn’t warn them as per the rules because they were afk, so rather than train them I just died myself instead. Is that not the rule? No biggie now, as I said I don’t play

Interesting little trolley problem. Shouldn't be laying on the tracks and shouldn't be afking at zoneline, and you pulled the lever because of rules. I'd have just booked it through the zone hoping there was enough distance between me and the mobs for them to stop well short of the zoneline. In Sol B if you really peel around that corner a lot of times you can be out before they follow their path up to zoneline. Guess you're a better person than I am :D

[Wakanda]

Interesting little trolley problem. Shouldn't be laying on the tracks and shouldn't be afking at zoneline, and you pulled the lever because of rules. I'd have just booked it through the zone hoping there was enough distance between me and the mobs for them to stop well short of the zoneline. In Sol B if you really peel around that corner a lot of times you can be out before they follow their path up to zoneline. Guess you're a better person than I am :D

Additionally trains are actually classic. Like the people in MR of Unrest raging out that fireplace or basement trained them. Like bro, this is what the game is, and always has been. I died somewhat recently to a group of friends training me in Lower Guk, they made it into a huge thing, apologizing, promising to get my corpse and rez me (which they did).

But in reality, getting killed by a random ass train in L Guk is actually true classic.

[Andyman1022]

Part of classic eq is dealing with environmental changes, and you just failed to deal with the repercussions of lvling next to an area where raid targets often pop!

[WarpathEQ]

Server staff has basically green lit that fear is a messy zone and therefore training is legal. If there is no enforcement against people training entire guilds worth of players, which happens every....single....CT spawn, than 0% chance they do anything about collateral damage on the way through feerrott.

The good news is every 3 days something spawns in fear which means these guilds are all parking lots of characters there. Use it to your advantage, get rez's and buffs, and if someone doesn't help remind them that their guild trained you for a pitty present.

[kjs86z2]

stay off the tracks

[Ekco]

Server staff has basically green lit that fear is a messy zone and therefore training is legal. If there is no enforcement against people training entire guilds worth of players, which happens every....single....CT spawn, than 0% chance they do anything about collateral damage on the way through feerrott.

The good news is every 3 days something spawns in fear which means these guilds are all parking lots of characters there. Use it to your advantage, get rez's and buffs, and if someone doesn't help remind them that their guild trained you for a pitty present.

i'd only recommend this nuclear option if you literally plan to never high end raid, or have a lvl 46+ burner character to do the training with.

if someone trained me in fear over being a shitter at spectres i'd totally let them track for 30 days then hyper dunk on them with a no vote on their app.

[loramin]

Server staff has basically green lit that fear is a messy zone and therefore training is legal. If there is no enforcement against people training entire guilds worth of players, which happens every....single....CT spawn, than 0% chance they do anything about collateral damage on the way through feerrott.

I think it's less a carve-out for Fear raiders, and more a consistent application of the Play Nice Policies (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349):


10. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

....

- Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).

Most fear raiders are not intentionally training people to cause experience loss: they're just running to a zone line and leaving a mob (or mobs) behind.

To crack down on those people, the staff would have to change the rules, and I don't see how they could have a consistent rule set without also banning every player who zones to lose a mob.

[loramin]

* who zones to lose a mob (when there are other players in the vicinity).

[cd288]

I feel like the staff have definitely issued punishments for unintentional trains. I mean just look at their response/issues they have with Bard swarming in dungeons when it causes trains. It's not about whether you intentionally trained someone, it's about if you were doing shit in the zone that you know could totally fuck things up for everyone.

[Old_PVP]

Filed under 1st world problems.

[loramin]

I feel like the staff have definitely issued punishments for unintentional trains. I mean just look at their response/issues they have with Bard swarming in dungeons when it causes trains. It's not about whether you intentionally trained someone, it's about if you were doing shit in the zone that you know could totally fuck things up for everyone.

I'll never understand why, but the staff loves leaving umpteen different old variations of the server rules around. If I wanted people to follow the rules, I'd only have one "source of truth" for them (that you can get to from a clear "Server Rules" link on the front page of the site) ... but that's just me :rolleyes:.

Anyhow, what I quoted was from the Blue forum Play Nice Policies, which is one of those outdated variations. The correct version (in the Important/Library forum) has one adddition I didn't quote:

- Note: Due to the complex and narrow geometry in many dungeon-type zones, swarm/AE kiting is also considered a form of Zone Disruption.

Swarming (clearly) violates that, but I don't see how zoning out with mobs (to Fear or anywhere else) does.

[Duik]

Trains have Tracks.
On live if you ran from mobs in KC (frigsample) you'd zone to the left side (on Prexus) still call train to zone but *general knowledge* was always to zone in/AFK on the other side.
One way zones? Dont fucking AFK hunt on the "tracks".
Seems simple enuf.

[OuterChimp]

This shiz doesn't happen on Teal.

[Ennewi]

Working as intended. It's a shared virtual world, which is exactly what everyone signed up for. Zone disruption just comes with the territory. There are even classic examples of it built right into the game itself by the devs. Ring war, phenocryst's focus quest, waking of the sleeper. Quakes are also a form of disruption, across all zones. Sorry you don't got instances.

[cd288]

I'll never understand why, but the staff loves leaving umpteen different old variations of the server rules around. If I wanted people to follow the rules, I'd only have one "source of truth" for them (that you can get to from a clear "Server Rules" link on the front page of the site) ... but that's just me :rolleyes:.

Anyhow, what I quoted was from the Blue forum Play Nice Policies, which is one of those outdated variations. The correct version (in the Important/Library forum) has one adddition I didn't quote:



Swarming (clearly) violates that, but I don't see how zoning out with mobs (to Fear or anywhere else) does.

Because things aren't black and white and there should be room for reasonable analysis beyond intention. otherwise you leave room for griefers to exploit. Using Velks as an example, if you're constantly doing annoying stuff up top that causes delayed trains (due to the crazy Velks pathing problems) to drop down on a group at the entrance, some GMs/Guides will come in and tell you to stop doing it if you can't prevent that from happening regularly as it's disrupting peoples' ability to EXP in the zone.

Having a rigid standard of "well it technically wasn't intentional in the sense of trying to train and kill them for fun" would be completely idiotic.

[kjs86z2]

choo choo!!

doesnt move

wHy diD YoU tRaIN me????!!!

/petition for the 25,001 of the year

[loramin]

Because things aren't black and white and there should be room for reasonable analysis beyond intention. otherwise you leave room for griefers to exploit.

You have failed at reading comprehension!

[Fragged]

Lol that OOC response.

[shovelquest]

I said, choo choo!!, officer!

https://i.imgur.com/O4vKiN9.png