How do you justify not paying for EverQuest?

[Reiwa]

1. Value Perception: After decades of playing, the game might not offer enough new content or updates to justify the cost. The player feels they've already gotten their money's worth and any new content feels like an afterthought.

2. Financial Priorities: As one gets older, financial responsibilities might increase (mortgage, family expenses, retirement savings), making even small subscriptions less justifiable compared to when they were younger.

3. Time Investment: At 40, the player might have less free time due to work, family, or other commitments, reducing the amount of gameplay to a level where the subscription feels less worth it.

4. Game Fatigue: Long-term play can lead to fatigue or burnout. The player might feel they've seen everything the game has to offer, making the subscription feel redundant.

5. Competitive Alternatives: Newer games or other MMOs might provide similar or better experiences without a subscription model, offering free-to-play or one-time purchase options.

6. Community Changes: The player base might have shifted over the years, with less of the original community remaining, which can decrease the enjoyment of social aspects of the game, thus reducing the perceived value of the subscription.

7. Quality of Life: Older games might not keep up with modern quality-of-life improvements or graphical updates, making the game feel outdated, which might not justify the cost for continued play.

8. Subscription Creep: There could be additional costs within the game (like microtransactions for cosmetics, mounts, or power boosts) alongside the subscription, making the total cost higher than expected or advertised.

.9 :

St87AlB-ZMg

[Ekco]

>How do you justify not paying for EverQuest?

i don't justify it, i just don't care.

same way i didn't care what happened to Sega from me not buying a single DC game and instead opting for their entire games catalog a friend had because of his dad's T1 line for the cost of some CD-Rs

[Lune]

Every month I just put fourteen fiddy worth of pills on my shrine to brad

[Duik]

You forgot "I'm trying to inceeqse the value of the P1999 Museum by play testing, classic research and bug reporting".

I believe that is a thing. I've seen it.

[Duik]

Omg. Increase, though inceeqse sounds like it should be a word too.

[Rygar]

You forgot "I'm trying to inceeqse the value of the P1999 Museum by play testing, classic research and bug reporting".

I believe that is a thing. I've seen it.

This guy gets it

[Cecily]

Omg. Increase, though inceeqse sounds like it should be a word too.
No. No it doesn't, but I recently found out cromulent is a real word now and I'm so happy about that.

[Reiwa]

No. No it doesn't, but I recently found out cromulent is a real word now and I'm so happy about that.

A neologism embiggens the dictionaries.

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

I did pay for EQ when the max level was I believe 110, on two accounts no less, so I believe it was either $20 or $30 a month at that point, for more than a year

Pro’s:

-FV is a cool server. Was fun to be able to farm pp and buy raid gear but had to buy the last “season’s”/tier stuff to avoid paying millions upon millions of pp

- Pet focus earrings were borked at the time so pet classes were borderline gods, so that’s what I played

- I never minded Mercs. I thought they were pretty cool and balanced pretty well. They were almost as good as a well geared player but not quite. Their programming wasn’t bad, for example, if they moved in range of a mob and were getting chunked they would take little side-steps to attempt to get out of range while still fulfilling their roles. And they were always ready and paying attention, unlike myself who was usually stoned trying to multibox 3 screens using alt-tab

Con’s

- Was never a fan of defiant gear. Crazy good stats that completely trivialized the early game and the idea of going for particular stats for particular classes. Why bother when a piece of defiant gear could drop off literally anything and have a fat stack of +all stats and + all resists. It did totally drop off near max level though. If you were near max level in defiant gear you would get clowned on by current content

- Being able to spend money to have permanent clarity and +exp pots from in game shop felt wrong to me

- Multiboxing to do current content wasn’t an option, it was a requirement

- EQ raiding is garbage compared to WoW raiding

- EQ pvp is garbage compared to WoW pvp

- I couldn’t justify spending $30/month for EQ when I could be spending $15/mo for wow

At work that’s all I can comment on atm

[Swish]

Emulated EQ isn't for profit is it? Does supporting P99 streamers count as making P99 more visible?

As for Daybreak I'd rather give a buck to Blizzard and that's saying something.

[Ennewi]

A neologism embiggens the dictionaries.

https://i.imgur.com/mg7VMzg.gif

You said jism.

[Lifebar]

Keep it real with a recurring monthly $9.89 donation to the P99 team.

[Ciderpress]

Who said I justify it? I feel guilty about it all the time, even on an emu like p99 that specifically wants lots of people to play it for free and is sanctioned by the IP owner.

[Tethler]

It's being offered for free, so why is any justification needed for accepting the offer?

[Reiwa]

It's being offered for free, so why is any justification needed for accepting the offer?

Stealing is wrong

[Duik]

Someone leaves a chest of draws on their front verge.
Sign says free to good home.
If you take it are you a thief?

[Ekco]

Stealing is wrong

not for software, or bread.

[Reiwa]

Someone leaves a chest of draws on their front verge.
Sign says free to good home.
If you take it are you a thief?

A coffee shop leaves a pitcher of cream out for its customers.

An Australian bloke follows the Eastern ethic and pours it all into his own container without making a purchase. The cunt then leaves.

[Ekco]

make warez groups great again, used to just kill entire video game empires, now they lockbit hospitals for crypto and kids die

Ve_Or9nlXEA

[Reiwa]

make warez groups great again, used to just kill entire video game empires, now they lockbit hospitals for crypto and kids die

Ve_Or9nlXEA

I always pronounced it "wah-rez"

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

I always pronounced it "wah-rez"

I remember warez sites as places I could go to pick up some cracks for the pirated version of the game I wanted to play and a nice fresh batch of free viruses

Any warez site or mp3 sharing site always threw in a few free viruses with their deals. I appreciated the little extra

[Ekco]

the "freewarez" scene was different, on aol you could join a public chatroom called server and a bot would send you a iso in like 100 parts because the email file limit was 10mb or w/e and the crypto currency at the time was aim accounts with good names, i remember my friend having "R0M" or "ROM" a 3chr aim account and that was a big fucking deal

IRC and usenets and a bunch of other places we're legit also, back then it was about good fun like you'd see a post about download this free cupholder and it would open your cd-rom drive

[Ekco]

https://www.wired.com/1997/04/ff-warez/

[Shourty]

No. No it doesn't, but I recently found out cromulent is a real word now and I'm so happy about that.

That's fine.

[Ciderpress]

I remember warez sites as places I could go to pick up some cracks for the pirated version of the game I wanted to play and a nice fresh batch of free viruses

Any warez site or mp3 sharing site always threw in a few free viruses with their deals. I appreciated the little extra

You mean my copy of photoshop that had a readme.txt with a weird ASCII skull logo at the top wasn't really from Adobe?

Actually goofs aside I wish I still had that cause you don't even get to own adobe products anymore. Renting software is pure cancer.

[Ekco]

You mean my copy of photoshop that had a readme.txt with a weird ASCII skull logo at the top wasn't really from Adobe?

Actually goofs aside I wish I still had that cause you don't even get to own adobe products anymore. Renting software is pure cancer.

why i'm ditching windows now and getting used to Ubuntu, enshittification is about to go fucking parabolic

[Ciderpress]

Hey now Windows is great, for example today win10 informed me that in october it won't be supported anymore, and the PC I built 2 years ago can't upgrade to 11 without some kind of horse shit physical security chip or some god damn stupid bullshit.

[Wakanda]

I've paid for TLPs before. I think I actually have some kronos on my account, but haven't logged in since... Oakwynd I think it was called? I just don't enjoy TLPs or the fact that it feels like you are significantly gimping yourself if you don't box. And boxing is super exhaustive, like... no thanks.

I learned a lot on TLPs though, like you really truly learn the lay out of Sol B, Hole, Lower Guk, Sebilis etc. in ways that aren't really possible on P99. Because on TLP your entire group will be pulling dead side of L GUK, and in Sol B I was playing a Monk who was camped at BNB but pulling the whole zone, all the way up to Efreeti. In P99 you don't really get to see the lay out of the zones like that because it's not feasible or realistic.

Also playing an Enc on TLP made me better because of how insane the expectations are. On TLP you are literally having to mez 30 mobs indefinitely while in a camp because of the insane chain pulling. That skill in particular transfers over to P99 fairly well.

You don't learn near as much about charming on TLPs, but the CC'ing a million mobs while keeping your groups buffed... TLP teaches you this really well.

[Duik]

TLP = Handholding. Got it.

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

You mean my copy of photoshop that had a readme.txt with a weird ASCII skull logo at the top wasn't really from Adobe?

Actually goofs aside I wish I still had that cause you don't even get to own adobe products anymore. Renting software is pure cancer.

I still feel bad though for pirating a fancy commercial version of Sony Vegas Video (this was more than a decade ago) to make WoW pvp videos. Man that software was hard to learn for someone with no vid editing experience though. So not user friendly…

But I used to pride myself on telling people “I’ve never stolen anything”, when that software was at the time retailing for a few hundred. And plus all the MP3’s I pirated probably adds up a definitely hundreds of dollar’s worth. I guess I assumed digital was like intangible and thus not a thing when it came to stealing

I also stole company time at a lot of my first jobs. I remember one time I said I wasn’t feeling well (was just a hangover) to pad my leaving my post and going to the warehouse to sleep for a few hours, all without the manager knowing because co-worker friends covered for me

I think that most people who claim they have literally never stolen anything ever are either lying or forgetting

[Ekco]

shitting on company time and pirating software isn't stealing.

downloading a mp3 or using vegas to make a video for youtube is some if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it type shit.

burning 100 copies of vegas and selling them, that's stealing. handing out a print out of all the recent movies and taking orders from 100 coworkers for 5 bucks a dvd. that's stealing.

were you raised Catholic or something cuz thats some powerful guilt

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

shitting on company time and pirating software isn't stealing.

downloading a mp3 or using vegas to make a video for youtube is some if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it type shit.

burning 100 copies of vegas and selling them, that's stealing. handing out a print out of all the recent movies and taking orders from 100 coworkers for 5 bucks a dvd. that's stealing.

were you raised Catholic or something cuz thats some powerful guilt

Lol Lutheran (Christian). But yea strict moral upbringing type of parents. Don’t lie. Don’t cheat. Don’t steal. Ever. Especially got that from Dad. To this day even super minor stuff I suggest he lie about he’s like no that’s dishonest. The difference between him and most people is that he doesn’t moral grandstand about doing it like most people’s “virtues”. He just does it, always tells the truth

But I am not like him now. I am perfectly willing and capable to lie based on the damage I think it will (not) do. But I can’t recall stealing even digital anymore. Mostly because I’m not as tech savvy as I was lol. Although if a game was good, I think it is stupid to steal it since paying for it is the way to ensure it gets maintained and possibly updated someday with hopefully some quality

[Ciderpress]

shitting on company time and pirating software isn't stealing.

downloading a mp3 or using vegas to make a video for youtube is some if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it type shit.

burning 100 copies of vegas and selling them, that's stealing. handing out a print out of all the recent movies and taking orders from 100 coworkers for 5 bucks a dvd. that's stealing.

were you raised Catholic or something cuz thats some powerful guilt

So it's only stealing if you sell them? What if you give them away? If adobe wants 10 bucks for photoshop, and you offer it for 5, some people will be more likely to get it from you instead. If you give it away *for free*, they will get it from you *guaranteed*. How is that not worse?

You don't have to be catholic or even religious to understand that's ethically fucked.

[Ciderpress]

And mind you, I hate adobe for it's subscription model. I do not begrudge them selling their products though, because it consumes labor and resources to make them. I just want to own a legitimate copy of photoshop, not rent it.

[Ekco]

like are you two literally trolling or something?

"Is it piracy if you don't sell it?
The most familiar type of piracy is the illegal copying and distribution of music, movies, and games from the Internet. While downloading these products—if you pay for them or have permission—isn't a crime, it is a crime if they are sent to others or widely distributed."

if downloading stuff for personal use is a crime, i've stolen a trillion fucking dollars lol.

[Ekco]

also, don't know if you guys have been paying attention to the news or not but every fortune 500 company stole IP from every person they could to build their LLMs, literally Petabytes of it.

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

like are you two literally trolling or something?

"Is it piracy if you don't sell it?
The most familiar type of piracy is the illegal copying and distribution of music, movies, and games from the Internet. While downloading these products—if you pay for them or have permission—isn't a crime, it is a crime if they are sent to others or widely distributed."

if downloading stuff for personal use is a crime, i've stolen a trillion fucking dollars lol.

How would a service economy work if everyone did that?

Someone spends a certain number of qualified hours making a product or service, which is then illegally downloaded for personal use. By everyone

This reminds me of that Always Sunny episode about Dave n busters. “How does this work again, Mac?”

[Ciderpress]

If one wants a piece of software bad enough, one might pay for it eventually. If that piece of software is on offer for free, you will obviously get it for free instead. The company then doesn't get as high a return on the investment of money and labor and time they put up to develop the software in the first place. If they don't bring in money, they can't keep making photoshops.

It's not really complicated at all, rationalizing software piracy only works if there's some magic genie who keeps developing and making new software for free. It might kinda feel like that's the case sometimes, but it's not.

[Ekco]

they just spent a billion dollars making a LOTR show nobody is watching, i think the creatives are doing just fine.

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

If one wants a piece of software bad enough, one might pay for it eventually. If that piece of software is on offer for free, you will obviously get it for free instead. The company then doesn't get as high a return on the investment of money and labor and time they put up to develop the software in the first place. If they don't bring in money, they can't keep making photoshops.

It's not really complicated at all, rationalizing software piracy only works if there's some magic genie who keeps developing and making new software for free. It might kinda feel like that's the case sometimes, but it's not.

Well most “free trials” are also with limited features to prevent the one-users like me from exploiting them

But either way, I can’t imagine it being completely legal to essentially steal a digital product for personal use. Like are you going to get in trouble for it? Probably not. But if some mega-company like Nintendo wanted to after you with their army of lawyers over it, I’m sure it’s not 100% legal

But I not super versed in law so….

[shovelquest]

if downloading stuff for personal use is a crime, i've stolen a trillion fucking dollars lol.

It is a crime, and also using adblock is a crime.

At least for anyone 20 years younger than you.

And I mean everyone 20 years younger than you.

You got literal punks and metal heads who are like, "I watch the commercials because its how the creators get money! Also piracy is bad for the same reasons."

Fuck this place i hope the whole country burns down.

[Ciderpress]

You're literally stealing a finite resource, which is the labor of the developers. Yes we all get that software can be copied an arbitrary number of times. That doesn't mean there's an arbitrary number of new talented software developers, who are compensated for their talents and efforts by their employer, who is only able to pay them if they bring in money by selling the software that you very well might otherwise buy, if you didn't choose to download it for free instead.

Lars was right. Completely, entirely right, about the napster thing, and the exact same principle applies.

[shovelquest]

The difference is my generation understood that the cost of piracy, and adblock is < the gains you get from selling products at a reasonable price to a reasonably sized audience.

But now everyone thinks that companies should make TRILLIONS of dollars, and anyone who prevents that is anti american.

[Ciderpress]

Companies should make as much money as they deserve to make based on the value they provide to society, because companies are made up of thousand of individual employees who need to get paid. It's impossible to know what kinds of cool shit might have been developed by now if not for piracy, because it was never developed, because of piracy.

Lots of "I'm entitled to your labor for some reason I can't quite articulate" going on itt. Is *anyone* still an unashamed capitalist around here?

[shovelquest]

fuck companies and fuck anyone who sticks up for them.

[Ciderpress]

Shovel, I need a new piece of software to do some amazing thing I want to do. When you have an open weekend can you develop that for me for free?

[shovelquest]

Shovel, I need a new piece of software to do some amazing thing I want to do. When you have an open weekend can you develop that for me for free?

Your strawman is a red harring.

1. Adblock and piracy losses are less than loss prevention costs

2. The only profit made by AdBlock changes are on the executive level, not on the creative levels.

3. new products that are valuable are created at new companies, not old corperations that dont want to compete with themselves.

4. your argument, while hopeful, and coming from a good place... is just not based on reality and instead is a delusion that uneducated lead poisoned boomers who had everything handed to them.

5. facebook became the biggest tech company on the planet from nothing, based purely on not having advertisements, and providing a service for free.

6. Same with youtube.

7. Same with google.

8. Same with apple.

9. Same with Open AI.

10. etc. etc. etc.

[Reiwa]

You're literally stealing a finite resource, which is the labor of the developers. Yes we all get that software can be copied an arbitrary number of times. That doesn't mean there's an arbitrary number of new talented software developers, who are compensated for their talents and efforts by their employer, who is only able to pay them if they bring in money by selling the software that you very well might otherwise buy, if you didn't choose to download it for free instead.

Lars was right. Completely, entirely right, about the napster thing, and the exact same principle applies.

You're indirectly stealing from the workers who already literally had the surplus value of their labor stolen by the company.

Nor is the software itself finite.

[Reiwa]

*Let software mean the product of their labor which can be reproduced infinitely as the company may choose.

[shovelquest]

The fact that I have to explain to multiple generations why mega corporations, monopiles, and supporting advertisements is bad.

Well... that's why I'm braiding my fingers wishing for ww3. We failed and it's time to see if the next species or whatever we re-evolve into have a shot.

[shovelquest]

Look at the internet before and after the web2.0 genz/melinial hellscape they replaced it with.

One was literally free of advertising and everything was piriated.

The other is fucking literally causing the end of the world.

[Ciderpress]

You're indirectly stealing from the workers who already literally had the surplus value of their labor stolen by the company.

Nor is the software itself finite.

The company stole nothing by offering a set wage in exchange for labor. That the labor *might* deliver excess value eventually doesn't somehow retroactively implicate the employer in some moral crime. The risk is taken by the person signing the front of the check. If there's nobody to sign the front of the check, there are no photoshops to steal because I don't want to work for free anymore than you do.

Also there are things called raises, which also only exist if payroll continues to function.

[Reiwa]

The company stole nothing by offering a set wage in exchange for labor. That the labor *might* deliver excess value eventually doesn't somehow retroactively implicate the employer in some moral crime. The risk is taken by the person signing the front of the check. If there's nobody to sign the front of the check, there are no photoshops to steal because I don't want to work for free anymore than you do.

Also there are things called raises, which also only exist if payroll continues to function.

Is signing checks the most valuable form of labor?

[Ciderpress]

Another weird observation about this topic:

Nobody ever gets mad at powerball winners, even though they probably fit the bill of "not earning their money" way, way more than any CEO of any company?

[Ciderpress]

Is signing checks the most valuable form of labor?

Don't just respond with a question ugh

[Reiwa]

Don't just respond with a question ugh

Man shall not live on signed checks alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.

[Reiwa]

Anyway if Lars was completely right, software programmers should get royalties/residuals too.

[Ciderpress]

Anyway if Lars was completely right, software programmers should get royalties/residuals too.

I'm not opposed to that in principle.

To reiterate tough: how come only CEOs get nothing but antipathy because they allegedly don't "earn" their fortunes, but if Jerry wins powerball and rakes in a cool 50mil which he *objectively* did not earn, nobody cares at all?

[Reiwa]

I'm not opposed to that in principle.

To reiterate tough: how come only CEOs get nothing but antipathy because they allegedly don't "earn" their fortunes, but if Jerry wins powerball and rakes in a cool 50mil which he *objectively* did not earn, nobody cares at all?

I don't think anyone else paid for his ticket.

[Ciderpress]

I don't think anyone else paid for his ticket.

Well they kinda did cause his check is coming from various taxes, that's just quibbling in the weeds though.

My beef is with the unequal application of the principle. In order to move forward properly in life, I need to know: Am I supposed to hate rich people, or not hate rich people, or if it depends then what does it depend on? Cause I have it on good authority that nepo babies and trust fund babies are very bad, but they're no more guilty of anything than Jimbo who struck gold.

[Reiwa]

Well they kinda did cause his check is coming from various taxes, that's just quibbling in the weeds though.

My beef is with the unequal application of the principle. In order to move forward properly in life, I need to know: Am I supposed to hate rich people, or not hate rich people, or if it depends then what does it depend on? Cause I have it on good authority that nepo babies and trust fund babies are very bad, but they're no more guilty of anything than Jimbo who struck gold.

Ticket = the vehicle he took to wealth. The outcome is less important.

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

Another weird observation about this topic:

Nobody ever gets mad at powerball winners, even though they probably fit the bill of "not earning their money" way, way more than any CEO of any company?

Because everyone assumes they are going to blow it all. Or die. Winning the lottery was the worst thing to ever happen to some people

Any person with a dangerous substance dependency who is handed a huge pile of money is at risk of a fairly quick death

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

Well they kinda did cause his check is coming from various taxes, that's just quibbling in the weeds though.

My beef is with the unequal application of the principle. In order to move forward properly in life, I need to know: Am I supposed to hate rich people, or not hate rich people, or if it depends then what does it depend on? Cause I have it on good authority that nepo babies and trust fund babies are very bad, but they're no more guilty of anything than Jimbo who struck gold.

If I become rich suddenly, am I obligated to hate myself?

If I already hate myself, can that be a prerequisite for getting the money?

Jk I don’t hate myself. But will take free money nevertheless, if anyone is offering

[shovelquest]

I'm not opposed to that in principle.

To reiterate tough: how come only CEOs get nothing but antipathy because they allegedly don't "earn" their fortunes, but if Jerry wins powerball and rakes in a cool 50mil which he *objectively* did not earn, nobody cares at all?

powerball is a tax on the poor and socialists hate it. You just dont hear about it, because they have CEOs to kill first, then they will get rid of the poor tax.

No reason to have a powerball if everyone is equal.

[shovelquest]

My beef is with the unequal application of the principle.

First of all CEOs are not a problem, but corporations being individual rights as citizens is. Hope this helps.

[shovelquest]

To reiterate tough: how come only CEOs get nothing but antipathy because they allegedly don't "earn" their fortunes, but if Jerry wins powerball and rakes in a cool 50mil which he *objectively* did not earn, nobody cares at all?

Lottery takes in more than it pays out.

So essentially those people are donating money to the state, and one of them is reward.

It's literally how mining bitcoin works.

So.. the reason they are better than the CEO, is they are taking money, giving it directly to the state, with only the "potential" promise of a reward.

It is true charrity, hurts nobody, and rewards some.

[shovelquest]

*giving money directly to the state

[shovelquest]

Or maybe nobody complains about the lotto because everything is organized by reptoids.

And the lotto is literally this:

_ZyNJ3cKfEg

and the reptoids, feed off our andriochromines, when the winner getgs handed money, and promptly losses it and all their family and friends and become miserable, angry and depressed a result.

https://i.imgur.com/QlNsngD.png

[Reiwa]

First of all CEOs are not a problem, but corporations being individual rights as citizens is. Hope this helps.

You're gonna be mad if you find out why corps have rights.

[shovelquest]

You're gonna be mad if you find out why corps have rights.

Because bankers and lawyers have forked tongues.

[Duik]

A lottery player effectively enters into an agreement that they wager their 20 bucks, along with millions of others, hoping that they will be the winner. Everyone enters the same agreement.

The tactics of many corporations and their CEOs is to use predatory techniques to manipulate circumstances tjat are simply beyond the ability of us normies. Even given the chance to screw millions of people out of their worth I'd like to think i wouldnt.

[Tethler]

Stealing is wrong

What did I steal? I purchased the game for playing on the live servers. The company managing the IP has given permission for p99 to operate. Using the game I purchased to play on servers sanctioned by the IP holder is stealing?

[Ekco]

permission was given like 2 owners ago, someone named EG7 owns the IP now, that agreement hasn't been valid since like 2018 or something

[shovelquest]

The tactics of many corporations and their CEOs is to use predatory techniques to manipulate circumstances tjat are simply beyond the ability of us normies. Even given the chance to screw millions of people out of their worth I'd like to think i wouldnt.

But you ironically don't want artists to make games unless they have a CEO to do that for them. :confused:

[Reiwa]

But you ironically don't want artists to make games unless they have a CEO to do that for them. :confused:

It's impossible to create anything without someone at the top to confiscate almost all the value for themself.

[shovelquest]

It's impossible to create anything without someone at the top to confiscate almost all the value for themself.

Not the case with crowdfunded indi games made by the creator.

But those are "grifts" so its either CEO's or grifters.

Like the absolute irony of saying, "people should take a risk and invest in their company themselves" and then say "people built these companies take no risks".

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

Not the case with crowdfunded indi games made by the creator.

But those are "grifts" so its either CEO's or grifters.

Like the absolute irony of saying, "people should take a risk and invest in their company themselves" and then say "people built these companies take no risks".

There’s a fairly popular youtuber I used to follow called Kira (I believe) that used to do vids about crowdfunded games that became scams

The devs made all these grand claims, collected a pile of money via crowdfunding, then dropped off the map. Apparently as long as they occasionally offer a tiny scrap of communication and updates, they can avoid the class action lawsuit by claiming “hey, I’m still working on the game, this isn’t fraud categorically”

But the games end up being vaporware. But this isn’t all crowdfunded games obviously. I remember hearing that Larian studios that made the super successful BG3 used to use crowdfunding back in the day

[shovelquest]

Crowdfunded games are scams.

Publicly traded companies that can afford to make games are evil.

Art should be free.

That's just the way modern young people think.

[Duik]

But you ironically don't want artists to make games unless they have a CEO to do that for them. :confused:

How you leapt to that conclusion I'm not sure.
Sure, some crowd funded stuff worked as intended. Asked for capital. Created something acceptable in an acceptable timeline. All good.

Pantheon Gall of the Risen is clearly not one of those. No matter how badly you want it.

Young people (in general) and people who badly want to believe are gullible as fuck as it turns out. They believe all sorts of faff. One of you even mentioned many watch the YT ads so "the creators get a payday". Really? Get a fucken job motherfucker.

[shovelquest]

How you leapt to that conclusion I'm not sure.
Sure, some crowd funded stuff worked as intended. Asked for capital. Created something acceptable in an acceptable timeline. All good.

Pantheon Gall of the Risen is clearly not one of those. No matter how badly you want it.

Young people (in general) and people who badly want to believe are gullible as fuck as it turns out. They believe all sorts of faff. One of you even mentioned many watch the YT ads so "the creators get a payday". Really? Get a fucken job motherfucker.

I feel like what it is now is perseverance.

Like, you had a dev team of artists and game devs that really, REALLY wanted to complete this game, and through adversity, bummer crowd funds, the death of the creator, and they actually shipped a game people are really getting hooked on YouTube.

It really shows how dedication, passion, and artists and creatives can make their dreams come true.

[Tethler]

permission was given like 2 owners ago, someone named EG7 owns the IP now, that agreement hasn't been valid since like 2018 or something

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know IP law. Are you?

What I do know, is that Daybreak gave permission for p99 to operate. While Daybreak was acquired by a larger company in like 2018, Daybreak is *still* managing Everquest. Whether that invalidates an agreement, I don't know. It's been like 7 years since the acquisition and p99 hasn't been forced to shut down, which leads me to believe that the deal is still on.

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

You like justifications? I hope you like to read.

1. A restaurant (or a grocery store) chucks expired food into a dumpster behind the building. The trash is not a promotional item or a complementary item intended for paying customers, and most people won't even consider looking at it, but a few old and homeless drug addicts are happy to eat it, especially after it starts to ferment and sprout various strange smelling mushrooms.

Restaurants deliberately ruin their food before throwing it out. My cousin that used to work at a restaurant had to pour paint on food before it was placed in dumpsters

When I worked in a retail store as a teen, my favorite part of the job was being ordered to break to pieces any products we were throwing out to prevent dumpster diving

And in the spirit of crazy tangents like this post…..

…When I don’t get sleep I don’t really get cranky like most people. I do definitely get dumb though. Sorta like drunk minus the fun parts. Just slow and stupid. And last night I for some inexplicable reason had an icepick headache for hours that 4 Advil couldn’t touch. This resulted in only like 2-3 hours sleep. I should have called out of work but didn’t

So I can’t at this time think or remember clearly enough to try to sus out who this might be. But I did read more of this rambling tirade than I had expected to. So bravo if this is a person. I guess go fuck yourself if this is an AI bot though. Or go cybersex some desperate maladapted nerds or whatever else you AI bots do. But I think there is a chance this is a person and like I said, interesting post for a TLDR

[Ekco]

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know IP law. Are you?


no, but i did stay at a holiday inn express last night and also not retarded. all it takes is a C&D letter not like they are going to pay for lawyers to defend a emu project on the grounds of a non legally binding handshake agreement made by people that don't own the property anymore

the ip was first purchased by a Russian holding company and now a Swedish one, the entire business model of these companies that acquire zombie mmos is just squeeze what little value is left in the IP without doing any investment into it

don't get mad cause literally everything in this statement is false

"What did I steal? I purchased the game for playing on the live servers. The company managing the IP has given permission for p99 to operate. Using the game I purchased to play on servers sanctioned by the IP holder is stealing?"

its illegal if they decide to care, just everything else discussed in the last 4 pages. from the TOS in the clients being different and not saying shit about it to who owns the IP and who's permission actually matters.

[Tethler]

no, but i did stay at a holiday inn express last night and also not retarded. all it takes is a C&D letter not like they are going to pay for lawyers to defend a emu project on the grounds of a non legally binding handshake agreement made by people that don't own the property anymore

the ip was first purchased by a Russian holding company and now a Swedish one, the entire business model of these companies that acquire zombie mmos is just squeeze what little value is left in the IP without doing any investment into it

don't get mad cause literally everything in this statement is false

"What did I steal? I purchased the game for playing on the live servers. The company managing the IP has given permission for p99 to operate. Using the game I purchased to play on servers sanctioned by the IP holder is stealing?"

its illegal if they decide to care, just everything else discussed in the last 4 pages. from the TOS in the clients being different and not saying shit about it to who owns the IP and who's permission actually matters.

Inaction over a period of years speaks volumes, and it's not like p99 is some big secret server, it's well known. If the new holding company wants to change or cancel the previous agreement, there is nothing stopping them from doing so. The company actively managing the game hasn't altered the status quo, so why should I as a user, feel anything about it when the most recent information is that it's sanctioned?

This whole thread is nonsense. When they publicly change their stance, then we can have this conversation.

[Ekco]

"Inaction over a period of years speaks volumes" yeah that's the legal case, but you're going to have to pay couple hundo a hour to have someone argue that point and the company will just drag it our in court as long as possible, that's the legal meta.

>This whole thread is nonsense.
Yes. 7.41% of the forum is RnF and Off topic. 0.0* something % if you include all the sub-forums of the 92.59% of https://project1999.com/forums/index.php strictly dedicated to the game, the server, and playing it exclusively

yet you come to the nonsense black hole at the center of the p99 universe and have the gall to complain about it

for a Vulcan you're illogical as fuck.

[Tethler]

"Inaction over a period of years speaks volumes" yeah that's the legal case, but you're going to have to pay couple hundo a hour to have someone argue that point and the company will just drag it our in court as long as possible, that's the legal meta.



Nobody will need to pay a dime unless the holding company decides they want to change the status quo. Until that occurs, no justification is needed to play this 26-year-old elf sim.

When I said the whole thread is nonsense, that was referencing the implication in the OP that any justification is necessary, and for the reasons I stated, I don't believe that to be the case.

[Reiwa]

Hey now Windows is great, for example today win10 informed me that in october it won't be supported anymore, and the PC I built 2 years ago can't upgrade to 11 without some kind of horse shit physical security chip or some god damn stupid bullshit.

Latest windows update just uninstalled wordpad without asking. I love technology.

[cd288]

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know IP law. Are you?

What I do know, is that Daybreak gave permission for p99 to operate. While Daybreak was acquired by a larger company in like 2018, Daybreak is *still* managing Everquest. Whether that invalidates an agreement, I don't know. It's been like 7 years since the acquisition and p99 hasn't been forced to shut down, which leads me to believe that the deal is still on.

I'm a transactional attorney. Usually these types of contracts will have clauses that they are binding on successors or assigns (i.e., anyone who purchased Daybreak). Usually the purchaser then factors that into their purchase decision/purchase price while they are conducting due diligence on the target company. I would be surprised if the original P99 agreement with Daybreak does not have that.

all it takes is a C&D letter not like they are going to pay for lawyers to defend a emu project on the grounds of a non legally binding handshake agreement made by people that don't own the property anymore

the ip was first purchased by a Russian holding company and now a Swedish one, the entire business model of these companies that acquire zombie mmos is just squeeze what little value is left in the IP without doing any investment into it
ctioned by the IP holder is stealing?"

its illegal if they decide to care, just everything else discussed in the last 4 pages. from the TOS in the clients being different and not saying shit about it to who owns the IP and who's permission actually matters.

Well I for one would do it for free if P99 needed help. C&D letters are also meaningless...half the time the person sending it won't do anything if you ignore the letter, it's just a hail mary to try to scare the person and hope they stop.

If a court case was actually filed, there are multiple additional arguments. One being promissory estoppel. The owners of P99 have been spending money to run servers in reliance on the contractual promises in the agreement to allow them to do so. As such, you can't just pull the rug out from under their feet.

The inaction over several years is also an argument P99 could make. That will depend on specific state laws though...we'd have to see the agreement to see if it specifies which state's law governs.

[cd288]

To add, the argument of "P99 wouldn't want to pay to litigate" also goes both ways. I doubt the IP owners would want to pay to litigate to shut down servers that have like 1,250 people total...probably at least half of whom don't like TLPs or otherwise wouldn't switch to playing TLPs out of spite for them shutting P99 down. Realistically it would gain them nothing...especially if P99 could get lawyers to help them pro bono so the only one bleeding legal fees is the IP holder.

You don't think Daybreak did that math before agreeing to allow P99 to operate? Of course they did. The current IP holder probably has also.

[Ekco]

is cd288 a chatbot i forget. either way, here's my chatbot's response.

The notion of Daybreak entering into a formal contract with an emulator project is perplexing. Wouldn't a more likely scenario be an informal, tacit understanding? Daybreak, perhaps, sought to appease their existing player base (many of whom likely utilized emulators) to avoid alienating potential EverQuest Next customers. This 'inaction' over several years, given the inevitable cycle of IP ownership changes in the gaming industry, raises questions. Why would any company intentionally diminish the value of an asset they knew they might eventually sell by formally aligning with an emulator project?

[shovelquest]

In this dimension darkpaw is in charge.

[cd288]

is cd288 a chatbot i forget. either way, here's my chatbot's response.

The notion of Daybreak entering into a formal contract with an emulator project is perplexing. Wouldn't a more likely scenario be an informal, tacit understanding? Daybreak, perhaps, sought to appease their existing player base (many of whom likely utilized emulators) to avoid alienating potential EverQuest Next customers. This 'inaction' over several years, given the inevitable cycle of IP ownership changes in the gaming industry, raises questions. Why would any company intentionally diminish the value of an asset they knew they might eventually sell by formally aligning with an emulator project?

Yes definitely a chat bot bruh.

I can't speak for why Daybreak did it. Only they and maybe Rogean/Nilbog know why. However, if I had to guess, they probably did some math, realized that the P99 player base isn't costing them a lot of money (some play on TLPs already so you don't lose money on those people, some would never play TLP anyway, and some would never touch a TLP for the first time or ever again if you sued P99 and killed it). So they probably figured, given the comparatively small monetary hit they are taking, the PR value of agreeing to let P99 operate was better than trying to shut it down (honestly, it probably would've cost them more in filings and legal fees to shut P99 down if Rogean/Nilbog tried to resist than they would make in a year from a portion of the tiny player base switching to TLPs).

As far as subsequent IP owners, their hands are tied by the legal agreement. Simple answer there.

[Trexller]

why would the russian oligarch who currently owns the EQ IP care what we do with eq emulators when their only interest is to wring the last drops of profitability from whoever still plays the live game?

daybreak employee's glassdoor reviews tell you all you need to know, they prioritize monetization over bug fixes and actually fun new content

they don't even think about EQEMU, not even a passing thought.

[Duik]

Everquest next?
Chatbot needs more food matey.

[Ekco]

they prioritize monetization over bug fixes and actually fun new content


that's the only business model left for live and other zombie mmos, and running progression servers.

they used to just shut the servers down when people stopped playing a game then someone realized Whales exist and love the cash shops in games

i logged on live this week and didn't know wtf to do with my hotbars because my live character is level 120 with 40,000 AAs, 39,000 of them i got instantly when i bought some expansions and a month of game time 2 years ago when they released Kunark/Velious/Luclin 3.0 Reboot expansions

they can't even be fucking bothered to do new/returning player onboarding right

Yes definitely a chat bot bruh.
their hands are tied by the legal agreement. Simple answer there.

You're in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down and you see a tortoise, cd288, it's crawling toward you

[shovelquest]

Lets just hope they dont start realizing nobody plays on their classic TLP servers (tormax) because they have p99.

😨

[Ciderpress]

Lets just hope they dont start realizing nobody plays on their classic TLP servers (tormax) because they have p99.

😨

Honestly I don't think p99 rips many players from live at all, because TLPs continue forward into all the content that people who play here ostensibly don't like.

If anything p99 addicts who are really hardcore about it will actually roll on new live TLPs to compete during the pre-luclin content then just come back to p99.

[shovelquest]

Yeah by no means would live compare in a side by side experience, but tormax was intended to be a classic server. And if there were no EMU's you know we'd all have been on it.

[cd288]

Honestly I don't think p99 rips many players from live at all, because TLPs continue forward into all the content that people who play here ostensibly don't like.

If anything p99 addicts who are really hardcore about it will actually roll on new live TLPs to compete during the pre-luclin content then just come back to p99.

Yup. There are some P99 players who play TLP, so it's not even that 100% of our player base causes the IP holder to lose TLP money.

[Bisonzabi]

The business model of $15 a month is archaic and the amount of things to preoccupy your spare time compared to 99-2003 when EQ was at its peak has drastically increased, especially for PC gaming, which is so far beyond in scope of what it was in the 2000's. If you went through an old brick and mortar catalogue for PC games back then, you'd get maybe around 25-50 games advertised, some of which were years old at that point. Compare that to how colossal Steam's library has gotten since 2003-2007 and how many people with 100+ backlogged games to divest their time into.
that's the only business model left for live and other zombie mmos, and running progression servers.

they used to just shut the servers down when people stopped playing a game then someone realized Whales exist and love the cash shops in games

Exactly this, it's a necessary evil. The only reason many old MMO's are still up is due to MMO's converting into f2p microtransaction shops for the whales. When DBG was sold off once again a few years ago, they stated in their financial reports that EQ2 only had 20,000 remaining subscribers (good chunk is probably boxers). That use to be a death sentence for any MMO back in the pre-f2p era.

[shovelquest]

Yup. There are some P99 players who play TLP, so it's not even that 100% of our player base causes the IP holder to lose TLP money.

They recently had their "classic" server and it was a total bust, their mischife server was booming.

But I genuenlly think the tormax server was of no interest to people becuase everyone who play eq on live got what they wanted from classic on P99, or are here.

Id have played tormax if not for p99, thats at least 1.

[Ekco]

i remember that first TLP server being sold as classic, maybe not officially from them but it definitively was how it was sold to me back in 2016 or whenever that was by people here or somewhere on the internet.

and it turned into a complete fucking joke like 10 minutes in when i realized those potion merchants with Hots and DD heals and Clarity and all that shit was ingame.

i've given them multiple chances to get their hooks back in me but they fuck it up each time, most recently relogging into my level 120 necro with a blank UI and there isn't a button to press to just load up a starter hotbar setup and spell loadout, like my brother in christ, i ain't about it sit here for an hour and half just setting up my fucking UI to play your dead game, you gotta meet me half way here a little bit.

[Tethler]

i remember that first TLP server being sold as classic, maybe not officially from them but it definitively was how it was sold to me back in 2016 or whenever that was by people here or somewhere on the internet.

and it turned into a complete fucking joke like 10 minutes in when i realized those potion merchants with Hots and DD heals and Clarity and all that shit was ingame.

i've given them multiple chances to get their hooks back in me but they fuck it up each time, most recently relogging into my level 120 necro with a blank UI and there isn't a button to press to just load up a starter hotbar setup and spell loadout, like my brother in christ, i ain't about it sit here for an hour and half just setting up my fucking UI to play your dead game, you gotta meet me half way here a little bit.

For real. I tried a few years ago to play my old characters and it just gave me like 30k AAs and I had what felt like dozens of Cooldown hotkeys to keep track of. Not for me.

[Ekco]

https://i.imgur.com/KwdSoOj.png

like i even made a post, i was like someone will point me to a button i missed or a website with default loadout files as a starting point i could fix in a couple minutes.

nope, just make a instant level character and copy the file is solution, lol.

[Reiwa]

https://i.imgur.com/KwdSoOj.png

like i even made a post, i was like someone will point me to a button i missed or a website with default loadout files as a starting point i could fix in a couple minutes.

nope, just make a instant level character and copy the file is solution, lol.

They did give away a free 85 for anyone with an account that did nothing/something at some point. I forget which.

[Tethler]

They did give away a free 85 for anyone with an account that did nothing/something at some point. I forget which.

Yeah, but once you log on to that 85, you have a million hotkeys to set up/organize

[Reiwa]

Yeah, but once you log on to that 85, you have a million hotkeys to set up/organize

I thought those came with prebuilt bars. It's been a minute.

[Ekco]

they do, i'm pretty sure i burned mine on some random alt though who now also has a blank ui because i didn't do a backup

i think i got a bunch of station cash from when i was subbed last so i could prolly buy one that way

[MageBlue]

sorry tldr;

There is probably just a simple misunderstanding between Daybreak / Valve / Rogean and the dev team ( who get $0 but are passionate about eq up to velious )

# I personally *despise* planes of power expansion - it effed over all the little chanters ( effing KEI ) / took away the feeling of tremendously bigly big the game was with the addition of the retarded pok books

>>

Daybreak should get $50 for vanilla eq not for any work see *** below

# valve will probably be cool with $0 since they are "gamers with jobs" and the goodwill will make them 10 times more than *any* cut of $50

vanilla eq - should give you 7 slots since in vegas '777' is a winner on one server ( like p99 green ) will always promise p99 red coming real soon ;)

imho: stop w/ the colors # not fair to those who are colorblind

go with the multiverse

1p99
2p99 # a fresh pve starting 6 months after 1p99 ( it supports pvp - turn in ur book to Priest of Harmony )

pvp # turn in your book to Priest of (Harmony) Discord
role # deliver the "plain brown package" to your GM # you are now permanently /roleplay


>>

*** does apple computer pay microsoft for some technology

Reasoned for 10 seconds
Apple and Microsoft have had a long history of cross-licensing agreements. Rather than one company simply paying the other for technology, they've agreed to allow each other to use certain patented technologies. For example, back in 1997, as part of a settlement of litigation between them, Microsoft invested $150 million in Apple and agreed to continue developing Office for the Mac. That arrangement wasn’t a simple “payment for technology” but rather a mutual agreement where both companies benefit from each other’s patents and software.

Over the years, additional cross-licensing deals have been made—though the specifics are often confidential. So, while it’s not as straightforward as Apple “paying Microsoft” for technology, there have been financial and licensing arrangements where royalties or investments are exchanged as part of broader technology sharing between the two companies.

[Bisonzabi]

Valve makes a 30% cut of a games sale price on Steam, so no, they wouldn't make exceptions for a $50 title, which itself is overpriced value for a 26 year old game, if this is what you're trying to convey. Remasters/Rereleases of older titles usually settle for around $10-$30.

[Trexller]

Valve makes a 30% cut of a games sale price on Steam, so no, they wouldn't make exceptions for a $50 title, which itself is overpriced value for a 26 year old game, if this is what you're trying to convey. Remasters/Rereleases of older titles usually settle for around $10-$30.

you're talking to a bot

[Wakanda]

IDK if this was ever suggested or if it's even legal, but I know from experience that if you have a 30 series or 40 series card, you can easily run P99 while mining certain cryptos and it doesn't affect your FPS on P99 or your hashrate for mining said cryptos at all. I always thought it would have been a neat idea for P99 players to mine a particular crypto to a P99 wallet to help donate to the costs of maintaining the servers etc.

Feel like that wouldn't be allowed though.

[Bisonzabi]

you're talking to a bot

Are you sure he's just not insane?

[Trexller]

Are you sure he's just not insane?

Reasoned for 10 seconds