Bard swarm kiting or zone disruption?

[Bardolap]

Is it even allowed to use add-ons to run in perfect circles?

If a bard has pulled 30+ drolvargs near the cliffs in FV and is obviously not controlling his running in perfect circles, should this be reported as zone disruption?

Yes, I know that there are a lot more than 30 drolvargs to choose from in the zone, but they're definitely taking all of the easily pulled mobs for themself.

Would post screenshots, but don't know how to upload images...

[zelld52]

not sure what you mean with ...and is obviously not controlling his running in perfect circles

as far as 30+ ... that's just bein a dick. bard swarming is a thing, yes - but you can only hit 25 at a time with pbae spells. so going over 25 is gluttonous, especially in a full zone (i'm lookin at you, City of Mist)

idk at this point in the lifecycle of Project 1999 anything goes pretty much, good luck out there

[Smoofers]

Would post screenshots, but don't know how to upload images...

NGMI

[wuanahto]

swarm kiting if i can pull off a few and kill mobs without worry
zone disruption if they die/zone and i got all that agro

[cd288]

I believe if it's over 25 mobs you're allowed to pull off their kite aren't you?

Also not sure how you would know they were using an add on. It's pretty easy to run in perfect circles to keep the mobs bunched up. Ever quad kited?

[Naethyn]

If its over 4 mobs you can pull off the kite.

[Infectious]

The zone has over 100+ mobs. Are you just jealous the guy is killing 30 mobs and not inviting you? The pirates have 1/3 of the hp as the dogs do anyway

[cd288]

The zone has over 100+ mobs. Are you just jealous the guy is killing 30 mobs and not inviting you? The pirates have 1/3 of the hp as the dogs do anyway

If you had reading comprehension you would be able to understand the sentence where he said his complaint is around taking all the easily pullable mobs by the cliffs, which IMO is a fair point since all the wanderers can be freaking annoying if you have to pull back to the cliffs from deeper in the trees.

[Toxigen]

just pull mobs off the kite, problem solved

[Troxx]

just pull mobs off the kite, problem solved

Yep.

And when the bard screws up the kite and dies just know the train is coming after you next!

[zelld52]

Yep.

And when the bard screws up the kite and dies just know the train is coming after you next!

Or when the bard decides to be a dick and zone because someone tagged off the kite. Seen this cause massive mayhem with a black reaver attached to it in CoM lol

[Ciderpress]

I believe if it's over 25 mobs you're allowed to pull off their kite aren't you?

Also not sure how you would know they were using an add on. It's pretty easy to run in perfect circles to keep the mobs bunched up. Ever quad kited?

To be fair, bards do seem to always be running in perfect circles in a way druids and wizards do not. It literally looks like they're just holding down forward and right\left the entire time.

Also sidebar: running in a circle is not the best way to bunch up a quad, because the four mobs come from random directions based on where you pulled them from. Better to run backward and angle\strafe as necessary to get the farthest out ones closer to the rest.

[BigChief]

I died twice in 59 levels, both times from going LD from a Bard swarm passing by.... F Bard swarms

[zelld52]

just pull mobs off the kite, problem solved

btw, this is not safe advice. recently did this in city of mist, a bard was swarming the entirety of 2nd, 3rd, moat and arena - while there were two groups at temples / stables starving for mobs.

I pulled a few off the bard kite, the bard petitioned. GM arrived and told me it was actually me who was acting against the PnP because i was disrupting his swarm.

lol Project 1999 in the year 2024

[loramin]

btw, this is not safe advice. recently did this in city of mist, a bard was swarming the entirety of 2nd, 3rd, moat and arena - while there were two groups at temples / stables starving for mobs.

I pulled a few off the bard kite, the bard petitioned. GM arrived and told me it was actually me who was acting against the PnP because i was disrupting his swarm.

lol Project 1999 in the year 2024

This is just sad if true. How does that make the game better or more classic? Is there any evidence of GMs protecting bard swarms on live?

If players are competing for mobs, no single player deserves a GM-enforced guarantee of 5+ mobs. They should be able to do 25 to their heart's content ... until (like everything else here) others want to share ... at which point they should have to share.

For everything else a single player only gets a GM-enforced monopoly on a single spawn point ... but the moment you agro a mobs it makes sense to change that from 1 to 25?

Plus, RP-wise, if you see a guy being chased by a bunch of mobs, it's nuts that you can't "help him out".

[zelld52]

I will search my logs for the GM interaction - but the response was something along the lines of

"If you suspect zone disruption, petition the player - otherwise leave them be."

This confused the hell out of me - because the bard was swarming approx 70 mobs at a time in a well-populated zone - swarming almost 3x as many as a PBAE song can hit.

But, as the CSR pointed out to me - if someone has a mob engaged you should leave it alone - petition for a GM to come rescue you - and when they do nothing about it - log off in disgust and defeat.

[zelld52]

I will search my logs for the GM interaction - but the response was something along the lines of

"If you suspect zone disruption, petition the player - otherwise leave them be."

This confused the hell out of me - because the bard was swarming approx 70 mobs at a time in a well-populated zone - swarming almost 3x as many as a PBAE song can hit.

But, as the CSR pointed out to me - if someone has a mob engaged you should leave it alone - petition for a GM to come resolve it (and when they do nothing about it - log off in disgust and defeat.)

[zelld52]

[Wed Aug 07 08:31:08 2024] CSR -> Me: Next time you have a camp dispute, don't take the matter into your own hands. Petition

meant to add that in the quote. forgot you cant edit RnF lol

[cd288]

I'd still just pull mobs off anyway. The average swarming Bard isn't going to petition over a couple of mobs because it's not worth their time. They might complain to you but they're not gonna petition and wait around for hours over a couple mobs being pulled off massive swarms.

Plus some of the time they know what they are doing is zone disruption (pulling multiple camps worth of mobs so there's nothing for the groups camping them to exp on, for example)...so they're not running fraps and they're not going to petition.

[Toxigen]

I'd still just pull mobs off anyway. The average swarming Bard isn't going to petition over a couple of mobs because it's not worth their time. They might complain to you but they're not gonna petition and wait around for hours over a couple mobs being pulled off massive swarms.

Plus some of the time they know what they are doing is zone disruption (pulling multiple camps worth of mobs so there's nothing for the groups camping them to exp on, for example)...so they're not running fraps and they're not going to petition.

exactly this

also, its not like we're advocating for you to go looking for bard swarms and rip them off

but if a bard rolls through your stuff and is being annoying, absolutely rip that shit

[Naethyn]

If its over 4 mobs you can pull off the kite.

[shovelquest]

& charm it, and haste and sow it and zone!

[loramin]

The problem is, until the staff make an official ruling, if a player follows this advice, they can wind up (as Zell did) with the staff mad at them.

But, it turns out one crazy person made a collection of such rulings awhile ago, and there actually is a ruling (https://wiki.project1999.com/Rulings#Camps_and_Power-Levelers.2FSwarm_Kiters), which dates back to GM Sirken (emphasis added):

as far as dungeons go, they are made up by camps. no person or group is allowed to own more than one camp (unless theres no other players around contesting the zone/camp). so if you are in Crushbone, or Mistmoore, or Unrest, or any dungeon, and a PLer is claiming more than one camp, the PLer has to give up one camp (as chosen by the person that owned both). if the PLer refuses to give up one of his multiple camps, you should /petition in game and then take a camp.

as far as swarm kiting bards, some earlier poster hit the nail on the head. the problem isnt that bards round up a hundred mobs; the problem is that it TAKES SO LONG to round up and then kite down the mobs, and as previously mentioned, can prevent anyone else from seeing a pop for over an hour. ive seen this in OoT, DL, and OT entirely too often, and i have told players repeatedly that if you can not find a mob because some one is kiting more than 4 of them, feel free to peel one off. no staff member is going to give a player grief for peeling 1 mob off a bard thats kiting an entire zone (or an entire island in the OoT situations).

So, it seems the official ruling (until a GM pops in here and says otherwise) is that Zell was only "in the wrong" only because he didn't meet the "you can not find a mob because someone is kiting more than 4 of them" condition ... or that the staff member involved was new and not aware of this ruling.

Technically it appears the standard is that you're only allowed to take from a bard swarm if you can't find a mob (and it's unclear how long you have to spend trying before you can give up and take from the swarm).

But, others have already mentioned why practically you can probably do so anyway ... and personally I feel like the staff should adjust this condition to be something more like:

If a player has noticeably more than 4 mobs (it can be hard to count swarms exactly) and it appears to be all the mobs of that type in an area, you can take from them.

Again, P99 and its Play Nice Policies are all about sharing. Everything in the camp rules revolves around a single spawn point or small cluster of them. Allowing Bards to take all the mobs near FV (and everyone else has to go into the death area if they want some) just feels un-P99 to me.

[cd288]

exactly this

also, its not like we're advocating for you to go looking for bard swarms and rip them off

but if a bard rolls through your stuff and is being annoying, absolutely rip that shit

Yup. Although usually I will leave them alone unless they are in certain zones. COM if there are multiple groups there exping? Dick move. I'll try and mess up your swarm for that.

Velks where you're causing massive trains etc. due to buggy pathing as you try to pull a bunch of stuff to the ground floor? Dick move.

[Jimjam]

You guys are pulling off single mobs? I try to xp steal them with pbaoe on my wizard.

[Nightsblood]

Is swarming beeing banned in groups in dungeons aswell, ex Velketor entrence.

[cd288]

Is swarming beeing banned in groups in dungeons aswell, ex Velketor entrence.

Seems like it is. Whether the Bard is swarming for themselves or swarming to PL people it's now zone disruption unless you're the only one(s) in the zone. I'd imagine if everyone else in the zone agrees to it then you'd be okay but I def wouldn't say yes in Velks if I were them...with the crazy pathing glitches in Velks it's one of the most dickheaded place to swarm IMO.

[Nightsblood]

Seems like it is. Whether the Bard is swarming for themselves or swarming to PL people it's now zone disruption unless you're the only one(s) in the zone. I'd imagine if everyone else in the zone agrees to it then you'd be okay but I def wouldn't say yes in Velks if I were them...with the crazy pathing glitches in Velks it's one of the most dickheaded place to swarm IMO.

Been doing it for some days now, no one have complained so far. So you whiner or realist ?

[WarpathEQ]

The change hasn't gone into effect yet until midnight tonight (turning over into tomorrow).

And it doesn't matter if others are in zone or approve of it. The rule change specifically stated that CSR will be proactively addressing these circumstances not reactively (i.e. waiting for petition). As it is their viewpoint that the very presence or possibility of swarming may prevent people from coming to the zone. So even if you are 1 of 1 in the zone, swarming is still punishable in that instance as it may disrupt the zone by disincentivizing people to go there.

[Eisai]

The change hasn't gone into effect yet until midnight tonight (turning over into tomorrow).

And it doesn't matter if others are in zone or approve of it. The rule change specifically stated that CSR will be proactively addressing these circumstances not reactively (i.e. waiting for petition). As it is their viewpoint that the very presence or possibility of swarming may prevent people from coming to the zone. So even if you are 1 of 1 in the zone, swarming is still punishable in that instance as it may disrupt the zone by disincentivizing people to go there.



This is the word.

[Hannibal]

The change hasn't gone into effect yet until midnight tonight (turning over into tomorrow).

And it doesn't matter if others are in zone or approve of it. The rule change specifically stated that CSR will be proactively addressing these circumstances not reactively (i.e. waiting for petition). As it is their viewpoint that the very presence or possibility of swarming may prevent people from coming to the zone. So even if you are 1 of 1 in the zone, swarming is still punishable in that instance as it may disrupt the zone by disincentivizing people to go there.

Some of these zones don't seem like a CSR will tag you though. Like kiting in Fear to get a single mob etc, since there is almost never anyone there anywho. Our CSRs are very big on communicating. Every time I have run afoul of something they've been super kind about it. I don't think you need to fear being alone and kiting if you're being responsible and dropping the kite the moment others appear in zone.

My wife and I were running a duo in Hate and a mini popped. We were unaware you had to leave and come back before killing again. The CSR let us know and we just chilled until a guild came and dropped the mini before going back to our duo. Easy wins.

[Ciderpress]

YES! Hahahah finally.

Suck a D bards.

[Eisai]

YES! Hahahah finally.

Suck a D bards.


You're so fuggin hot when you talk talk dirty

[cd288]

Been doing it for some days now, no one have complained so far. So you whiner or realist ?

Well, the post specifically said that the rule was going into effect in a few days so...

Also, not sure how that's a valid response lol. "Oh hey there were a couple people in the zone who didn't care so that means everyone who would ever be in the zone won't care" like...what? lmao

I also find it very hard to believe that you've swarmed in dungeons and never had any complaints.

[Nightsblood]

Well, the post specifically said that the rule was going into effect in a few days so...

Also, not sure how that's a valid response lol. "Oh hey there were a couple people in the zone who didn't care so that means everyone who would ever be in the zone won't care" like...what? lmao

I also find it very hard to believe that you've swarmed in dungeons and never had any complaints.

No complains, ppl love it.

[Ennewi]

Months ago, a low man guild on blue server were encouraged explicitly by CSR to play "their game" the way they wanted to, despite that "playstyle" having repeatedly caused issues for other, larger raid guilds who were in the majority and vocal about that unwanted interference. One emerging problem with that playstyle included zone disruption and disregard for others in zone, yet that low man guild was allowed to continue, despite complaints/petitions.

In terms of the server's history, that was a relatively new problem, though Lord Bob had a similar approach to raiding in the distant past, ignoring the Sky agreement, among other things.

Bard kiting is not new. A lack of groups on blue server is not new either, outside of the prison yard that is KC. And complaints/petitions about those kites are as old as the server's existence. It is a playstyle however, similar to low man raids, which involves risk. Why is one emerging playstyle supported despite it interfering with more players, where suddenly a long-established one is no longer allowed?

This rule change may solve a problem on green sever, but it only exacerbates an underlying problem (that green will eventually face as well) for those of us on blue server, players who have little choice now but to solo; while this can be fun, as seen with the solo artist challenge and self-imposed hardcore mode, the fun is mostly derived from being able to experiment out in the wild, devil may care.

Artificially limiting a classic solo method to a fraction of zones in time-locked content does nothing for blue server and only further segregates a population that only crosses paths during nat respawns, quakes, and events.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. Suck a D bards.

[Mendo]

Fear is on the list of "Dungeon zones" It's going to be fun to file petitions on all the bards doing their bard thing in fear when the next CT spawns.

[WarpathEQ]

Fear is on the list of "Dungeon zones" It's going to be fun to file petitions on all the bards doing their bard thing in fear when the next CT spawns.

Technically the bards are not at fault as long as they are doing damage to the mobs, the rules do not disallow kiting. You're going to have to petition all of the individuals in the AE pile.

[WarpathEQ]

Technically the bards are not at fault as long as they are doing damage to the mobs, the rules do not disallow kiting. You're going to have to petition all of the individuals in the AE pile.

Should have read as long as they ARE NOT doing damage. Not sure why I couldn't edit the prior post.

[Ciderpress]

You can't edit posts in R&F. It's so all the hilarious ill-considered drunken rage posts can be preserved in their original mint condition.

[Eisai]

I love this forum.

[Talerain]

I have a question about swarming in Velk. For example, Frenzied group trains entrance and bard picks up all the mobs and starts to snare them around for entrance group rather than causing a wipe or our group from being disrupted. Is it the AOE Damage portion that is causing issues, the repetitive behavior mentioned in CoM or something else?

In the scenario above, I have several options:
Always play snare song run in circles:
1) combine with melee dps buffs to let melee kill faster
2) combine with an aoe DOT and melee dps to slowly kill things and supply group with dmg buffs
3) only play aoe dots while melee kill
4) have person root individually, play aoe dps songs on top of them while they can't hit you while you are no longer swarming but still snaring.

Which of these is bannable?

Keep in mind that it is never the intent to swarm kite in the zone but if shit hits the fan why would it not be considered an option for a "group" to handle it how they deem fit?

[Eisai]

I hope all of them are okay. I'd hate for them to make a rule that disrupts group play. Might as well can enchanter from aoe mez.

I really see the rule as "don't monopolize a zone" which is just playnice/"don't be a dick" which has always been a rule.

Treat it how the court system defines pornography: I'll know it when i see it

[Duik]

So a bard swarming and NOT damaging it to CC is still not OK? Or is it.

Letting them do that would allow them/the group to still make use of that good strat (from an example above). Same with training in the various planes (fear?) Start dotting etc and it breaks the rules.

I cant believe this needed to be policed in the first place. Actually I can.
Boredom has set in.
Which lead to entitlement.
If I can, I will.

Maybe im missing something.

[Eisai]

Thousands of dkp have been awarded to bards for swarming in com while grouped with a 40+ cleric/rogue/warrior. Which allowed them to bid very high on contested drops. Plus all the cash/item loot. The only thing they were asked for was to take that shit outside so it doesn't disrupt group play. Unfortunately a few didn't care and their example led to more and more mimics. What once was a 3am problem became an all day affair.

Either way; i think instead of a rants and flames post that will never get attention there should be a petition made seeking a clear definition of what is swarm kiting. I can't imagine that they intend to make group play suffer for what a few selfish soloists have earned for their class.

[Jimjam]

Thousands of dkp have been awarded to bards for swarming in com while grouped with a 40+ cleric/rogue/warrior. Which allowed them to bid very high on contested drops. Plus all the cash/item loot. The only thing they were asked for was to take that shit outside so it doesn't disrupt group play. Unfortunately a few didn't care and their example led to more and more mimics. What once was a 3am problem became an all day affair.

Either way; i think instead of a rants and flames post that will never get attention there should be a petition made seeking a clear definition of what is swarm kiting. I can't imagine that they intend to make group play suffer for what a few selfish soloists have earned for their class.

The funny thing is a bunch of these bards would take ages to kill their kite, often dieing yet refuse offers of help in AoEing the swarm down faster.

[Ciderpress]

For the willfully obtuse salty bards: don't bard in a way that is obviously insanely annoying to other people in the zone. This rule needed to be implemented because you couldn't just do this on your own, apparently.

Woah, woah woah I can't understand, is it okay for me to swarm in velks if I'm helping a group level, who is obviously okay with me doing that and actively wants me to do it??? Isn't that like, kiiiiinda the same as me swarming com and training the shit out of everyone?? Boy, I don't understand this mysterious new ruling!

[Talerain]

I've asked several different people and have got several different answers. I definitely can see if someone is being a Jerk to the entire zone who continuously does the same thing for hours on end. I'm talking limited once in like 2 - 3 hour crap when 1 mob gets stuck somewhere up top and just starts social aggroing everything.

In 7 hours today in Velks, I only had 1 pull which ended up with like 7+ mobs but they just kept coming in waves of 2 - 3 for about 3 waves. Now can I use my DPS songs or not in this scenario?

[cd288]

I've asked several different people and have got several different answers. I definitely can see if someone is being a Jerk to the entire zone who continuously does the same thing for hours on end. I'm talking limited once in like 2 - 3 hour crap when 1 mob gets stuck somewhere up top and just starts social aggroing everything.

In 7 hours today in Velks, I only had 1 pull which ended up with like 7+ mobs but they just kept coming in waves of 2 - 3 for about 3 waves. Now can I use my DPS songs or not in this scenario?

The staff are not going to punish you for pulling in a group and pulling a bunch of mobs that you and your group then kill (including with you using your AoE song if needed) - assuming that you're not stealing mobs from another person/group's camp. They would likely punish you if you repeatedly caused trains with your pulling that screwed up other people, but that's not a Bard issue they would do that to any puller.

[cd288]

For the willfully obtuse salty bards: don't bard in a way that is obviously insanely annoying to other people in the zone. This rule needed to be implemented because you couldn't just do this on your own, apparently.

Woah, woah woah I can't understand, is it okay for me to swarm in velks if I'm helping a group level, who is obviously okay with me doing that and actively wants me to do it??? Isn't that like, kiiiiinda the same as me swarming com and training the shit out of everyone?? Boy, I don't understand this mysterious new ruling!

This is well said. It's pretty freaking obvious what the staff is talking about here. And the group angle technically has nothing to do with Bards...any puller could pull a shit ton of mobs and cause zone disruption and they'd be in trouble, this isn't anything new.

[dajudge]

Apologies to whatever class you play, as you're obviously mad at bards.

The complaint you have, exemplifies your ineptitude on full display. There are plenty of mobs in FV, in fact it's an outdoor zone, so you can eat your heart out.

Fact is you're just sweating over the exp and mobs killed by the Bard. Isn't it enough that the GM's have already weighed in favor of you crybabies and dungeons?

GM's have essentially come out and said Bards can't do what their class is capable of in Dungeons, which of my estimation is neglecting what Brad intended for a pure EverQuest Experience. Enjoy that win and stop complaining in outdoor zones ya turd.

[Praxcthius]

^^^^^^^^^
What he said. With an extra crybaby thrown in

[Stakorian]

Zone disruption. L O L

It's such a cute term, especially in terms of FV, but also in terms of CoM. The actual issue is that a slow key board turning clicker is sitting down to med and killing a few mobs a minute and gaining a level every few days, while another class is skirting death and getting a level an hour. People fume when they see a bard in any zone getting anything.

CoM for example. I've done a lot of this zone, grouping, soloing, swarming, and I have never seen a group on levels 2 and 3. Necro soloing all of level 2? No problem. An enchanter doing it? Whatever. A bard soloing 2 and 3!!!! And!!! 3-4 mobs from Moat!!! How fucking dare that zone disrupting piece of shit!

The only real difference is that the bard's kill area is an unused patch of grass on the north end of arena that I've also never seen a group occupy.

Are you taking arena mobs? Nope. Are you taking mobs that anyone is going after? Nope.

I've been in CoM at 4am and there was one group at stables losing their fucking minds about the 3 mobs the level 2 and 3 mobs pulled in. We might as well just say that CoM has all level 1 as a camp at that point. This group, never starved for mobs, never in danger, never trained, still had the audacity to complain like children over nothing.

"When I turned the corner my frame rate dipped and I couldn't move from all the mobs!"

Anything to complain about. Anything to get upset about.

Velks is a clusterfuck, but CoM is able to be controlled to such a high degree that I have many times performed the pull while no one was at Moat, and no necros or enchanters were trying to do level 2 or 3, with an Arena group, a Temple group, and a Stables group, with zero issues or danger.

People aren't mad over zone disruption, they are irrationally upset at one class having the tools to circumvent the grind. And that makes them clowns. Neutering the ability of a class because of tears is also a decision only made in a circus.

A sad state.

[Ciderpress]

Lol there are lot of other classes in the game to envy but mostly people just hate bards for some reason try again

[Ennewi]

Zone disruption is a legitimate complaint. Back before Velious was released on blue, there would be ramp groups in OT who would complain about bards taking all of the easier mobs and leaving little else to kill. The counterargument was that OT was a bard zone, go somewhere else. With only one expansion, there were fewer zones to relocate to, and yet this rule did not exist. Now there's more real estate than ever, with all expansions released and two PVE servers, plus Quarm. Yet here we are, with repeat offenders ruining the game for everyone else, first the groups who were trying to xp and now the other players of same class who abided by the PnP. No different from the raid scene, the repeat offenders weren't made an example of, so it wouldn't get to this point, where everyone else would have their gameplay orange coned and taped off.

As annoying as it is, this change would be a good fit for the eventual new server and it might not be as bad for green in its current state, depending on the population and availability of PUGs. It encourages bards to group in so many ways, which is what the game was mostly about in classic. But applying the same rule to all servers fails to appreciate their differences. One size does not fit all.

With few exceptions, blue is a ghost town; seasonal events only bring out the twink alts who are so geared to the teeth they 1) don't need to group and 2) will survive zone disruptions more often than not and 3) have a clicky cleric bot parked to rez, like the majority of the server.

It's a shame because blue has become the place to push soloing to its limits, single-playering through the MMO with BiS. Granted, years ago, zone disruption petitions were probably legion even on blue. But now? Press X to doubt.

[Ciderpress]

An important part of the rationale for this change that I think deserves highlighting is that the mere possibility of a bard swarming in CoM actively discourages people from going there in the first place. There aren't gonna be petitions about zone disruption if nobody is in the zone because a bard is there swarming- giving that bard a false impression that it's no big deal and he's not disrupting other players. So I think getting a group into the dungeon to XP in exchange for losing one bard is a fair trade.

[Stakorian]

Why would it dissuade anyone? The only viable time to swarm is very early in the morning when no one is around, or when there aren't people soloing the second and third floor camps.

"CC"

silence

"Moving to Moat." or "Taking cloud stairs." or "Taking 2nd/3rd floor."


Any of those camps get claimed and the swarm is cut off at the knees, which is fine. Just come back when no one else is there. The real issue is often that a single group wants the entire first floor to be their own personal playground. It's ignorance of the actual mobs involved in the swarm, and an irrational loathing for its going on.

Countless times people have shown up and the zone has filled and I just logged until no one was there.

What's the bard going to say? "I'm camping it all." Do other groups say that concerning camps disappearing as the zone fills up?

Misinformation and rampant tear time has led to the current status.

There is a way to social much of the Moat mobs into the swarm, but there is also a way to leave most outside of it if the zone has a group operating on the first floor. It's a very easy pull. One that takes little effort to control, and a reaver that can be managed without issue.

People avoiding a dungeon because a bard is killing mobs they would never pull, in a small section they don't travel, is laughable. Sure, maybe the bard dies, and the mobs return back. At stables that is irrelevant. Same with Temple. Same with Arena as long as the puller doesn't just rush around a corner.

Prime time with many groups and the bard is dick. And all it would take is a single group moving to Moat or a character claiming a camp on the 2nd floor and the pull is not possible. That is when comes the time for a petition. I very much doubt that bards have caused more drama than slower groups of neckbeards bullying their way into camps. But swarming is a vile word to the minds of the meek, and unfortunately the wailing of bad clickers was listened to.

But anyone who avoided going to CoM because a bard was there is just wrong.

[Ciderpress]

No the issue is that the possibility a bard even *might* be in there swarming poisons the well for that zone. I'm not trying to denigrate your skill as a bard, I have swarmed quite a bit and it's super tedious and does take a certain talent, and I'm sure you're the most polite bard the server has ever seen, but it's just a cost\benefit thing in terms of staff resources.

[Jimjam]

Why do mobs drop out of the sky at stables when bards are swarming upstairs? I’m not saying bards are causing it, just wondering why and how it happens.

[dajudge]

Absolutely pathetic. Any move towards making p99 closer to retail/progression server EQ is a step in a real shitty direction. The beauty of p99 has always been classic first, your hurt feelings are disregarded. If someone is being shitty take note of the name and shit list them, that's classic.

Taking away an entire classes ability to exp is never the right answer. Might as well get melody and restrict bards ability entirely from swarming. A real progression-like move.

[Duik]

Waa its the ONLY WAY I CAN LEVEL!
Sorry you cant group.
We are sorry you can pull 25 mobs and slowly kill them all in a way no other class can, even the multi kiting classes. Sorry bub. 4 tops except if you are the singing twat.
Also, I appreciate a good swarm kite. Just not near me.

Bards are arguably a great group augmentation class. But it got twisted (see what I did there?) into an antisocial zone disrupter whos feelingz get hurt if people dare to call that shit out. Your feelz dont matter.

Wanna speed run lvls? Go for it, just dont fuck everyones day doing it.

[Ciderpress]

Absolutely pathetic. Any move towards making p99 closer to retail/progression server EQ is a step in a real shitty direction. The beauty of p99 has always been classic first, your hurt feelings are disregarded. If someone is being shitty take note of the name and shit list them, that's classic.

Taking away an entire classes ability to exp is never the right answer. Might as well get melody and restrict bards ability entirely from swarming. A real progression-like move.

Yeah see I half agree with this the problem is no amount of "shit listing" stops them from just doing it anyway.

Can still swarm in outdoor zones and annoy the players there instead. That's compromise!

[zelld52]

It's not just bards.

How about the level 60 mages who are too bad at the game to farm anything meanwhile running through Paineel clearing every single guard spawn with their pet, while refusing to claim a specific spawn while level appropriate players fight for scraps to get exp?

Or the countless near-level 60 players in who are too bad at the game to farm anything meanwhile running through Sol A clearing every single goblin spawn while refusing to claim a specific camp while level appropriate players fight for scraps to get exp?

[Jimjam]

Bit different fighting a handful of mobs at a time to claiming most of the mobs in an area at a single time.

[zelld52]

True. Bards just get the best tools to monopolize an area - but man I’ve run into a lot of max level paineel or sol a farmers as well as COM swarmers in my time on p99