Do you consider torpor to be truly classic?

[Wakanda]

I'm not gonna' say it isn't, all imma say is I don't remember it being a big deal at the time. I definitely experienced it, and found it to be the most annoying spell in the game as a Rogue who frequently pulled for the group. But I don't remember ever witnessing Torpor do anything amazing.

When I start reading about it most people say it's because the spell had an insane mana drain until 2002.

What is y'alls thoughts on this?

[Ciderpress]

It shouldn't cost what it does. It lets shamans solo some stuff they otherwise couldn't, and has some utility on raids if you're short on clerics or something. It's not omgmgmg game changing as people claim it to be. It's just a very mana efficient heal over time that also gimps your movement speed and attack. Wooo.

[Ciderpress]

Maybe you meant is it classic mechanically compared to actual live classic era. That I don't know, but as it's implemented on p99 I still think it's pretty overrated.

[Jimjam]

Nothing more satisfying than clicking off a useless 100000pp spell.

[Rygar]

I seem to recall torpor having a slow component to it, not just snare but melee speed slow. If so this would mean it should classically cause you to lose any haste buffs.

I'm a bit out of touch around here, maybe it already does that.

The mana drain was proven to have been removed in timeline, it should have the drain for a period tho

[Reiwa]

I seem to recall torpor having a slow component to it, not just snare but melee speed slow. If so this would mean it should classically cause you to lose any haste buffs.

I'm a bit out of touch around here, maybe it already does that.

The mana drain was proven to have been removed in timeline, it should have the drain for a period tho

Was also a group only spell because of this shit?

[Rygar]

Was also a group only spell because of this shit?

I thought Torpor was group only on P99 anyways, maybe I'm wrong. Here is a post talking about Torpor being group only (in era)
https://alt.games.everquest.narkive.com/KjnZiGdt/torpor-and-me
Something I'd forgotten from my earlier years with Stupor;
these spells can be cast only on group members. Too much opportunity to
mess with people by slowing and snaring them, I guess.

Was interesting seeing that you essentially couldn't walk backwards while torpor was active, essentially had to turn around, walk away from mob, then spin back to face them. Mentions it was a pain on summoning mobs to tank. Maybe P99 already works this way:
Actually, the biggest problem with Torpor is the snare; its really
noticable, I move forward at a walk, and can barely back up at all. On
summoning mobs, this is a pain because from time to time, even though
I'm in melee range, they summon me anyway, pulling me forward to where
I'm no longer facing them; positioning so the rest of the team is behind
the mob becomes difficult. Normally, I'd just back up to get position
back under control, but now I have to turn, move forward slowly, then
spin back around. Thats a pain.

[Danth]

Torpor has a melee slow but does not strip haste due to occupying a different buff slot type. Offhand I can't recall whether haste can be applied whilst torpor is running...I don't really try to do that. I'm thinking of how some DOT effects do not strip regen, but regen can't be applied while the debuff is on.

Shamans were solo'ing west wastes dragons in 2001 much as they do on P99. Not very many of them, due to EQ back then having drastically fewer high level players as a proportion of the player base, but they were there. It wasn't so widely known. The culture of the community was different and people tended to keep quieter about "OP-feeling" tactics out of fear of Sony nerfing stuff if it became too common.

If anything helps shamans on P99 it's that root arguably holds too consistently and can definitely be applied to too many targets at once.

[Danth]

(can't edit in RNF)

Torpor is indeed group-only on P99. Can't really walk backward with torpor running on P99. Have to turn sideways and strafe. I call it the "torpor shuffle." I'm *very* used to doing that on P99 after 12-13 years of duo'ing with my wife's shaman.

[Smoofers]

Posting in a bad player thread.

[Solist]

All these people guessing at basic game mechanics badly that have been unchanged for 12 years on p99, discussing game mechanics....

No wonder. Where's the chat GPT dude who just posts fake memory shit from p99, he's more reliable in a technical discussion.

[Reiwa]

All these people guessing at basic game mechanics badly that have been unchanged for 12 years on p99, discussing game mechanics....

No wonder. Where's the chat GPT dude who just posts fake memory shit from p99, he's more reliable in a technical discussion.

I only meant to point out torpor griefing, Judgey. :p

[Zuranthium]

Torpor isn't classic in the sense that far less people had the spell back then, barely anyone before Velious.

Clerics were considered to be the "Holy Trinity" of grouping (Tank + Enchanter + Cleric) because they all had Complete Heal for the tank, whereas Shaman were mostly just working with Superior Healing, or eventually Chloroblast during Velious.

[Dolalin]

I put together a spreadsheet from all the historical spdats I found that track spell changes over time. You can take a look and filter the spreadsheet for Torpor to see how it changed over time.

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archives/blob/master/spdat/Historical%20SPDAT%20Data.xlsx

[Dolalin]

Here is how Torpor changed over time.

It had no mana drain in Kunark beta, but one was added in the April 2000 spdat, and it remained until the Nov 17th 2000 patch.

[loramin]

So Mages (a weak class) don't even get their basic spells at launch, but Shaman (we just had a whole thread about them being the best class in the game) get their most over-powered spell extra over-powered for half a year?

Classic EQ :rolleyes:

[Jimjam]

So Mages (a weak class) don't even get their basic spells at launch, but Shaman (we just had a whole thread about them being the best class in the game) get their most over-powered spell extra over-powered for half a year?

Classic EQ :rolleyes:

In before “spdat files are just descriptions which often didn’t line up with how spells actually worked server side and if anything torpor was actually even more powerful on live during this era”.

[Dolalin]

I'm working on Google Gemini integration with the EQ Archive btw.

Idea is that you search for a set of docs from the archive, then it's shipped to Gemini (1m+ token context window) and you ask Gemini a question about the set of docs.

So let's say you give it all pages in the archive that mention primal weapons, and you ask it which types of primal dropped most often, based on that context.

It works in principle. ChatGPT is helping me write the web UI for it. :D

[Zuranthium]

Shaman get their most over-powered spell extra over-powered for half a year?

Torpor was far less powerful for half a year, making the target lose 50 mana per tick. The archived spell description and user comments on Caster's Realm and other sites also state this.

[loramin]

I'm working on Google Gemini integration with the EQ Archive btw.

Idea is that you search for a set of docs from the archive, then it's shipped to Gemini (1m+ token context window) and you ask Gemini a question about the set of docs.

So let's say you give it all pages in the archive that mention primal weapons, and you ask it which types of primal dropped most often, based on that context.

It works in principle. ChatGPT is helping me write the web UI for it. :D

Sounds awesome, and a good use for a LLM! Let me know if you need any help; I implemented a web UI for a different AI (Claude) at work a month ago.

[loramin]

* especially if you're using some flavor of React or no framework; I won't be much help with Vue/Angular

[Snaggles]

Not remembering something doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

[Jimjam]

Torpor was far less powerful for half a year, making the target lose 50 mana per tick. The archived spell description and user comments on Caster's Realm and other sites also state this.

It doesn’t say per tick in the screenshot. Did the data file mismatch the implementation?

[Zuranthium]

It doesn’t say per tick in the screenshot. Did the data file mismatch the implementation?

There are several message board posts about Torpor costing 400 mana to use on yourself, the only way that makes sense is if Torpor was -50 mana per tick, and there's no other logical reason why anyone would be trying to say it costs 400.

[zelld52]

Torpor isn't classic in the sense that far less people had the spell back then, barely anyone before Velious.

Clerics were considered to be the "Holy Trinity" of grouping (Tank + Enchanter + Cleric) because they all had Complete Heal for the tank, whereas Shaman were mostly just working with Superior Healing, or eventually Chloroblast during Velious.

yeah people seem to forget this point about p99. shit wasnt perma farmed on most servers back in the day. Nobody was able to kill Avatar of War on E'Ci until Luclin. Vox and Naggy stayed up for days at a time during velious because the raiding guilds didnt have level 52 toons they kept for farming white dragon scales. most people only had one toon, or at least one toon that was raid-ready.

and people did not farm sebilite juggernauts, guardian wurms, or the other Kunark targets that drop spells. On p99 green - sebilite protector dies just about every 8 hours, and has died every 8 hours for the last 2+ years. there's currently 5-6 sellers of Torpor in the tunnel on green as we speak.

people didnt truly grasp the power of classes like Enchanter, Shaman, Necromancer and Bard in 1999-2001. At least, the majority of players didnt.

[magnetaress]

Delete torpor and slows imo from shaman class. Way tooo powerful. Shamans should just buff and dot kite only. Also nerf all dot classes to be in line with wizards.