Best 4 person all melee/hybrid group

[Vexenu]

Bard and Paladin seem like a lock (basically the Enchanter/Cleric of melee/hybrids) but after that it gets debatable depending on preferences. Do you add ROG/ROG for max DPS and rely on lulls to pull? ROG/MNK for high DPS with some FD pulling? Toss in a Ranger somewhere for SoW, snares and tracking? Can anyone possibly make a reasonable argument to include a Warrior or SK in this group? And what is the toughest mob a four-man melee/hybrid group could theoretically kill?

[Swish]

Oh no, what have you done...

[Trexller]

well that'll be 500 pages and 3-5 real life hammer assaults

[Troxx]

Honestly?

I’d likely vote monk monk monk bard but my mind is open to being changed. 3 mends. 3 “tanks” who also do good dps. Minimal gear needed for any to be effective. Monks can flop aggro if health gets too low to pass the buck to the next monk.

Bard + lute + hymn of restoration and later hymn + Nivs is all the healing they’ll ever need. Twist in some snare/slows and and other buffs.


Yep … I think that would be my vote. Monks at baseline are just overpowered and a well played bard is a sight to behold.

Of all the potential candidates out there, sk and warrior are arguably worst picks.

[Trexller]

that's close

just like best 4 person caster group is definitely ench ench ench cler

this question has nothing to do with the extra utility a class might provide, it's all about who slugs the hardest

I agree with monk monk monk bard

[Vexenu]

Honestly?

I’d likely vote monk monk monk bard but my mind is open to being changed. 3 mends. 3 “tanks” who also do good dps. Minimal gear needed for any to be effective. Monks can flop aggro if health gets too low to pass the buck to the next monk.

Bard + lute + hymn of restoration and later hymn + Nivs is all the healing they’ll ever need. Twist in some snare/slows and and other buffs.

Monks are definitely OP and I can see the argument for including two, but I think the Paladin would bring more value than a third Monk, especially if the group wants to go after something really challenging. In a long, tough fight, a third Mend can't compete with Celestial Cleansing, LoH and Soulfire charges. Not to mention the obvious benefits of a rezzer in group (inb4 DSM suggests a pocket Cleric).

PAL/BRD/MNK/MNK would be a force for sure. All Human for style.

[Trexller]

is it EC gear or raid gear? if EC gear the pal would be beneficial

if its raid gear, pal can stay home for good

[Troxx]

I dunno. I’ve played all 3 to 60. As much as I love paladins I honestly think it would just slow them down. That … and there are plenty of videos of monks solo challenging some frankly obscene content. 3 monks lined up ready to flop aggro to the next monk to take over camping.

Paladin would absolutely be a viable class though consider.

What the monks lack the bard makes up for in spades: mez, lull, snare, slow, fear, charm, selos, healing, haste …

Whatever group compositions are debated, bard is gonna be the backbone if we limit to melee and hybrids. Bards are the WD40 of EQ.

[bcbrown]

Whatever group compositions are debated, bard is gonna be the backbone if we limit to melee and hybrids. Bards are the WD40 of EQ.

Not just that, they really shine when one or more of the caster roles is otherwise unfilled. They can fill any role 80% as well as a more specialized caster with 200% of the effort. But with a 3-5 song twist, they can't fill all the roles well simultaneously. One argument I'd make for paladin is root - a bard can lock down three adds with mezzes but then it's hard to do anything else. Another source of CC takes at least one responsibility off the bard. Some stuns would also be nice occasionally.

The other argument would be to say that with three monks flopping around plus bard lull you aren't going to have any bad pulls where you need a lot of cc at the same time as other bard songs. Either composition sounds pretty fun.

[Trexller]

stay on point, this isn't an opinion matter

this question has nothing to do with the extra utility a class might provide, it's all about who slugs the hardest

monk monk monk bard would kill the toughest mob of any combo of 4 melee

[Keebz]

What are we doing with this group? Biggest target? General crawling? Need a goal to give a real answer.

To muse a little, however, without raid gear I'm less hot on just massing monks. I also think the 3 monk 1 bard puts probably too much burden on the bard for general play. But for raid geared characters you can do a lot with just 2x monk, so I buy that as a decent strat.

For crawling, I'd love to be able to do basic cc root/snare and slow without the bard, so the bard can focus on charm, haste, hymm, etc. A ranger could slot in there and also provide some buffs (HP/AC, massive 50% slow, DS, ATK, etc.)

On the other hand, for sustain, a paladin can heal for days and has great CC.

Rogue has the highest DPS and some decent procs (namely, a 35% slow proc).

Warrior has disc, which might unlock something? and a slow proc.

SK has pet pulls I guess? Probably vanishingly small opportunities for that, but there might be one. Fear and snare as well I guess.

At first blush, I could definitely see combos with Ranger or Paladin in the mix somewhere if you need a slower or just lots of healing.

[Penish]

hammer salts

[Jimjam]

I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve always viewed shaman as more of a melee hybrid than a pure caster so …

[Vexenu]

monk monk monk bard would kill the toughest mob of any combo of 4 melee
How can you even begin to make this argument when a Paladin has celestial cleansing, 1 LoH and 5x CH from Soulfire available for tough kills? There's no way the additional DPS/Mend/avoidance from a third Monk outweighs that much raw healing. As DSM would say, it's just math.

[Toxigen]

Best all-around:

bard
rogue
paladin
monk / ranger (if ranger has both epics would be pretty sweet for slows but until then monk is miles better)

Sure, the bard can interrupt casters but having a pally for dedicated stuns will help with the biggest potential problem: eating nukes that chunk HP pools.

Bard, rogue, paladin really can't be replaced. If you're trying to do big targets you're gonna need a soulfire and rogue dps...and the snap aggro enables the rogue to go HAM right out of the gate on every XP mob.

Now, if you're going a self-found route...its 100% naked monks + bard. But ain't nobody tryna do that in 2024.

/thread, pack it up boys before DSM's military-grade autism kicks in.

[Jimjam]

Bard for aoe kite and 3x SK for Word of Spirit spam.

860dps from Word of Spirit. 600 dps from earthshaker proc (melee damage not accounted for).

Sell 50s pl, buy loot rights from the enc/cleric group.

[eqravenprince]

Everyone forgetting Rogue poisons which would be useful in this made up group. 50% slow.

[Penish]

still surprised the water boy hasnt chimed in

[Keebz]

if ranger has both epics would be pretty sweet for slows but until then monk is miles better)

You can also use Swarmcaller to get a slow if necessary.

[7thGate]

Everyone forgetting Rogue poisons which would be useful in this made up group. 50% slow.

50% slow is not going to make a big enough difference. Rangers get a 50% slow proc, so do warriors, and too much is immune because of the root component.

If Rogues are going to be needed to do something hard, its almost certainly going to be Blinding Poison for on demand 108 second blind kiting. I'm not sure if there's a good target or not to really showcase that though; you can blind kite Dain, but he's too resisty and has too high regen to do with 4.

I suspect the hardest targets are still targets where you can get NPCs fighting each other for most of the work and you assist by tanking. With no enchanter, you probably need to go help mobs that fight each other naturally.

I would target Zlandicar as possible hardest target. Start a fight between Zlandicar and Neb, and tank for Neb while he does all the DPS, then kill Neb right before Zlandi goes down. I think you probably want mostly Paladins for that; 4x Paladin gives you 24 CH, plus healing, plus 4x Lay on Hands, with Sanctification backing things up.

Maybe there's something with a bard kite swarm tossing blocks of 4 pets at something?

[Vexenu]

It's interesting to consider the tradeoff of subbing a Ranger in over the Monk or Rogue. Is the benefit of the Ranger slow proc worth sacrificing the raw DPS of the Rogue and the numerous benefits of the Monk? It's an extra 20% over Bard slow, and the Bard would obviously rather be playing something else. So... Maybe?? But then who do you drop for the Ranger? The Monk or Rogue? With three solid pullers in Pal/Brd/Rng, you can probably get by without FD. So I'd lean toward the Rogue.

[7thGate]

The other big thing you get from Rogues is Mana Sieve, but only against stuff where you can land poison effects since their version is resistable. Still, there's probably a decent number of mobs that can only be realistically killed with a rogue or more in the group to sieve it out, I don't think bard mana drain is usually enough and none of the other melees get and mana drain as far as I know.

[Jimjam]

It's interesting to consider the tradeoff of subbing a Ranger in over the Monk or Rogue. Is the benefit of the Ranger slow proc worth sacrificing the raw DPS of the Rogue and the numerous benefits of the Monk? It's an extra 20% over Bard slow, and the Bard would obviously rather be playing something else. So... Maybe?? But then who do you drop for the Ranger? The Monk or Rogue? With three solid pullers in Pal/Brd/Rng, you can probably get by without FD. So I'd lean toward the Rogue.

Ranger also adds +13hp/tick/character, a truck load of attack and some more ac.

[Toxigen]

Best off meta trio I ever experienced was bard / monk / rogue (all epic / fungi). We were all about level 56/57 or so and trio'd slabs in the hole. We never had a single second of downtime for a few hours.

Was insane xp.

So yeah, throw a paladin in there and you'd prob make less xp/hour while leveling but would add immense horsepower for killing beefier targets.

[Troxx]

. Is the benefit of the Ranger slow proc worth sacrificing the raw DPS of the Rogue and the numerous benefits of the Monk?.

You guys keep bringing up Ranger slows … which are procs and unreliable.

Have you forgotten that bards can slow things on demand? The slow may be less than 50% but it can be applied from the very start. Bard ripping aggro isn’t really a problem anymore after the song aggro nerf

[Toxigen]

You guys keep bringing up Ranger slows … which are procs and unreliable.

Have you forgotten that bards can slow things on demand? The slow may be less than 50% but it can be applied from the very start. Bard ripping aggro isn’t really a problem anymore after the song aggro nerf

bard initial slow is ofc good when you dont have a direct healer, but ill take the 50% eventually, especially on bigger mobs

[Troxx]

Fair enough but given the streaky nature of the slow procs my warrior and ranger has … whatever you were fighting might well have died (35% slowed) before you get that first proc.

[fortior]

Hard to think of anything better than monk x3 and a bard
Paladin the next most likely to include because soulfire and rez are cool

[Duik]

still surprised the water boy hasnt chimed in

Still trying to shoehorn an SK into the group.
Prolly headed to party supplies store for more napkins.

[Troxx]

Prolly headed to party supplies store for more napkins.

/chortle

[Vexenu]

Best all-around:

bard
rogue
paladin
monk / ranger (if ranger has both epics would be pretty sweet for slows but until then monk is miles better)

Sure, the bard can interrupt casters but having a pally for dedicated stuns will help with the biggest potential problem: eating nukes that chunk HP pools.

Bard, rogue, paladin really can't be replaced. If you're trying to do big targets you're gonna need a soulfire and rogue dps...and the snap aggro enables the rogue to go HAM right out of the gate on every XP mob.

Now, if you're going a self-found route...its 100% naked monks + bard. But ain't nobody tryna do that in 2024.

/thread, pack it up boys before DSM's military-grade autism kicks in.
I find myself in broad agreement with this take the more I think about it. PAL/BRD/ROG for sure and then the difficult choice between Ranger and Monk. And obviously Monks bring a ton to the table in this era, but the Ranger does too. There's definitely a lot of overlap with the Bard toolkit (i.e. snares, regen, tracking, DS, slows), but having the Ranger available cover some of those duties frees up the Bard to focus on other more important shit like staying on top of mezzes, charms, DS, haste, etc... And at 60 with CoTP on the RNG/ROG/PAL, you've probably erased the Monk's DPS advantage. So at that point the Monk is really just bringing FD pulling, which with the substantial tools that PAL/BRD/RNG bring to bear for pulling, you aren't going to miss in the vast majority of circumstances.

[Kirdan]

Toxigen's comp was what I had in mind as well. I think BRD/PAL is the obvious core, you get the most tanking/healing ability and overall utility out of that combo and having a rezzer is kinda huge. For the second half, MNK/ROG is the best combo of dps and pulling. MNK/MNK is tempting, but I think sneak/hide and pick lock is enough to earn the spot for ROG.

[Trexller]

check your opinions at the door

stick to what actually matters in the real world, otherwise you'll elect biden again

this question has nothing to do with the extra utility a class might provide, it's all about who slugs the hardest

[Duik]

Politz politz politz.

The existing president is just biden his time

[Toxigen]

id really like to try this comp in a static

id even be willing to pilot the bard...a static weird comp / no-twink group would be the only thing that could bring me back to playing p99

[Troxx]

check your opinions at the door

stick to what actually matters in the real world, otherwise you'll elect biden again

The irony in this statement is hilarious. I vote we stay on topic - this is a better discussion for the off topic forum.

[cd288]

The irony in this statement is hilarious. I vote we stay on topic - this is a better discussion for the off topic forum.

It's not even allowed in off topic either because none of use want to hear stupid political BS on an everquest forum

[Trexller]

https://bungalower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/maxresdefault-1.jpg

[Keebz]

none of the other melees get and mana drain as far as I know.

It's not much, but for posterity, knights do get access to a minor drain via procs if uber geared https://wiki.project1999.com/Essence_Drain

[Elizondo]

Bard / Paladin / Monk / Rogue

No doubt

[Troxx]

Honestly if it’s a choice between Ranger and rog; I’d lean into the Ranger. Less DPS for sure but I will admit that all the “other” they bring to the table likely will have a much bigger impact than the difference between the rog and Ranger dps. Sow, attack buffs, regen, dmg shield, CoE, harmony, long duration snare, ability to help cc in a pinch and (yes I know I poo poo’d it earlier) a 50% slow.

Exception of course being whether or not there are locked doors you want to hunt behind.

[Toxigen]

i guess it depends on the hypotheticals...but i don't think rogue is the questionable 4th

its between monk and ranger...and it depends

full twink group with all epics rdy to go at 46? - ok maybe ranger then

self-found / funded / fresh start with no existing plat? - definitely monk

but its bard / paladin / rogue for the core 3

[Vivitron]

It's at least a little tempting to say 4 monks, especially if they already have a lot of resources on the server. Get that full group flop.

[cd288]

Agree Rogue absolutely needed. Bard can pull if you want to swap out the Monk and have the Ranger throw regen and low level Druid buffs on the Pally.

[Keebz]

If not twinked, I actually think rogue is pretty trash, at least until they find a good MH piercer. What's the best piercer they can reasonably attain? Frozen Shard in the 50's? Similar for Monk, but I guess you just spend a lot of time in KC and hope for the best?

I'm slightly different in that my core 3 I like are BRD/PAL/RNG/X with either MNK or ROG as the 4th.

The RNG is there mainly just to swarmcaller things, but the added utility would be pretty sweet (tracking for self found is real good). To this end, I could see swapping in WAR for RNG, since they can truncheon (a much harder drop to come by though) and maybe their overall tankiness (esp w/ disc) unlocks something. But the overall logic is the slow is both better (50%) and also frees the bard up to provide more value, so it double dips in a sense.

EDIT: I should stipulate I'm going off the premise of self found.

[Zuranthium]

Bard still has to use slow until a Proc weapon triggers, I don't find much extra value there. Would rather have a Rogue and kill everything faster. I'm not getting the concern about available weapons, Swarmcaller is only 46+ to begin with. You could go join a Plane of Fear raid at 46 as a Rogue and get a good piercer, there are multiple that drop and normally are just thrown away.