Mage epic

[IXIShaunIXI]

ok So i am pushing my epic soon
and looks liek i have to pay 800million plt to a plt seller in hate? any one no his wep site so i can send real $$ to buy the plt off him so i can give it back to him to by my mq when i am ready?

[Jimjam]

Excellent roast. I wonder whether it is true!

[Trexller]

OP is a bot or just a really bad troll

[IXIShaunIXI]

OP is a bot or just a really bad troll

only trolls are the GMs leting him do this

[spoil]

a bot would pick a mage

[WhodinaNameless]

I think what he was saying is the same guy camps the magi epic in hate for the last 4 years and it's a bottle neck why there is no mage epics on green.. and he sells it for 800k mq since green started.. and nothing is done about it. Doesn't seem classic to me...makes u wonder..

[shovelquest]

I think what he was saying is the same guy camps the magi epic in hate for the last 4 years and it's a bottle neck why there is no mage epics on green.. and he sells it for 800k mq since green started.. and nothing is done about it. Doesn't seem classic to me...makes u wonder..

He's probably a Gnome.

You can't stop Big Gnome.

[IXIShaunIXI]

Platimun slling will get you banned in less you a dude in hate for years makeing 800mil a pop gm get a cut? or is it a gm ?

[Toxigen]

ryan and sean sell meth for mage epic

[WarpathEQ]

I think what he was saying is the same guy camps the magi epic in hate for the last 4 years and it's a bottle neck why there is no mage epics on green.. and he sells it for 800k mq since green started.. and nothing is done about it. Doesn't seem classic to me...makes u wonder..

Certainly not a supporter of this person but at the end of the day someone camping the earth staff 24/7 for years does not make it a bottleneck for getting mage epics. This individual is ensuring that every possible earth staff that can drop does drop and makes it to a mage, the price they charge is determined not by them but by the market which determines the value based off the rarity and desirability of the item. So if anything this individual is contributing to reducing the bottleneck not adding to it.

I.E. if nobody was willing to pay $800k then it wouldn't sell for that because the item has no value to someone farming it that isn't going to turn it into an epic aside from the value of plat that can be obtained by selling.

As a bard I would love for someone to build a market around the white scale, at least then it would be more attainable. Mages should be thankful that there are other options aside from socking hate 24/7 for years to have a shot at your epic.

[Evia]

ryan and sean sell meth for mage epic

Lol that’s be an excellent YT channel right there. Subscribed and bell’d.

[IXIShaunIXI]

Certainly not a supporter of this person but at the end of the day someone camping the earth staff 24/7 for years does not make it a bottleneck for getting mage epics. This individual is ensuring that every possible earth staff that can drop does drop and makes it to a mage, the price they charge is determined not by them but by the market which determines the value based off the rarity and desirability of the item. So if anything this individual is contributing to reducing the bottleneck not adding to it.

I.E. if nobody was willing to pay $800k then it wouldn't sell for that because the item has no value to someone farming it that isn't going to turn it into an epic aside from the value of plat that can be obtained by selling.

As a bard I would love for someone to build a market around the white scale, at least then it would be more attainable. Mages should be thankful that there are other options aside from socking hate 24/7 for years to have a shot at your epic.

thats the case you would see more then onlt 4 mages with the epic, mand every guild tells there mages sorry re roll your never going to get your epic

[Toxigen]

make magi a list camp

[WarpathEQ]

thats the case you would see more then onlt 4 mages with the epic, mand every guild tells there mages sorry re roll your never going to get your epic

Are we accusing this individual of deleting earth staffs and intentionally gate keeping to ensure people don't get their epics?

The amount of mage epics is simply a function of how many of the epic components drop over time. We could perma ban said individual from the server and it would have 0 effect on how many mage epics there are past, present, or future.

Simply put some epics are more rare than others, the amount of mage epics on the server isn't that far off from bard epics (another notoriously hard one to complete). The key difference being I see mage epics on untagged players and sometimes even people's lvl 52 naggy/vox bots. Never once have I see a bard epic on a 52 alt or untagged individual on P99 although I'm sure they exist, albeit extremely rare.

Sure there might be some people butt hurt that they actually have to do work to obtain the funds to achieve the mage epic and therefore can't just be a warm body that spends most of their time afk around 30 people with the same tag above their head and gets handed something for free but for the people putting in the effort the cost to buy the piece takes no more time and energy than the cost to earn it through non-plat purchasing systems such as DKP. It just forces you to earn it and prevents them from being handed to people.

[IXIShaunIXI]

whats his web site i need to buy $$$ so i can give the $$$ back to him for my epic

[IXIShaunIXI]

make magi a list camp

or make all mini drop it random

[Toxigen]

also mage epic doesnt matter because coth bots dont need it

[cd288]

also mage epic doesnt matter because coth bots dont need it

This. That's the other reason you "don't see many Mage epics on the server" because there's no real reason to play a Mage to get an epic. All you do is COTH and drop mod rods, why spend the time or money to get an epic

[IXIShaunIXI]

This. That's the other reason you "don't see many Mage epics on the server" because there's no real reason to play a Mage to get an epic. All you do is COTH and drop mod rods, why spend the time or money to get an epic

yeah fk the mages!!! they dont mater

[IXIShaunIXI]

This. That's the other reason you "don't see many Mage epics on the server" because there's no real reason to play a Mage to get an epic. All you do is COTH and drop mod rods, why spend the time or money to get an epic

you should aply ti be a gm looks liek they give 2 shits about mages as well

[Toxigen]

this is definitely ryans twin brother

[cd288]

yeah fk the mages!!! they dont mater

Not our fault you're a moron who wants to spend time getting a very difficult epic for a pointless class

[IXIShaunIXI]

Not our fault you're a moron who wants to spend time getting a very difficult epic for a pointless class

this is everquest
not everbuy

[cd288]

this is everquest
not everbuy

It's not like you have enough friends to even put together a small crew to farm the staff, so even if it was wide open you wouldn't be getting it.

But hey that's a great point. Instead of whining about it why don't you go put together a squad and contest the spawn?

[IXIShaunIXI]

It's not like you have enough friends to even put together a small crew to farm the staff, so even if it was wide open you wouldn't be getting it.

But hey that's a great point. Instead of whining about it why don't you go put together a squad and contest the spawn?

lol what you talking about been up there 4 times this moutnh all minis but him was up like always we are denied the chance to get a magi with out paying out 800mil

[WarpathEQ]

lol what you talking about been up there 4 times this moutnh all minis but him was up like always we are denied the chance to get a magi with out paying out 800mil

Ever think to try getting there before he spawns? If you weren't aware competing for mobs that spawned prior to you being in zone isn't going to be very fruitful.

[Toxigen]

just do a bunch of meth and stay up there for a month straight

[Trexller]

if everyone had a pocket epic mage like they all have a pocket epic cleric then they could cheese thru any content

[cd288]

lol what you talking about been up there 4 times this moutnh all minis but him was up like always we are denied the chance to get a magi with out paying out 800mil

Oh so really what's happening here is you're just upset because you're trying to contest a spawn and failing. Get better at it then.

Or go play on a server with instanced raiding (like Quarm) where you can get your care bare need to get whatever you want whenever you want it satisfied.

[Toxigen]

quarm died when secrets made raiding instanced

didnt expect much else honestly

[magnetaress]

The answer is never OP

[loramin]

Oh so really what's happening here is you're just upset because you're trying to contest a spawn and failing. Get better at it then.

Or go play on a server with instanced raiding (like Quarm) where you can get your care bare need to get whatever you want whenever you want it satisfied.

Yeah, why is so he upset about that he can't win the unclassic Magi here? It's not like this place claims to replicate classic EQ or anything ... he should just stop whining.

[Toxigen]

how dis make you feel, mageboi?

x_ptOqHc1C4

[Duik]

Thats gotta hurt.

EDIT
Never having charmed a non animal target, does a charmed CH cleric heal itself? (While charmed i mean)
Imma guess no cuz thats waay OP.

[Trexller]

Not while charmed but you can just break charm, npc heals itself then recharm

[IXIShaunIXI]

looks like plat farmer and gm's are in on it
Make Magi stff none MQ'bele Solved

[IXIShaunIXI]

why is there a list for AC and not magi ?

[Kroshk]

AC in Ocean of Tears is a single spawn point, a single spawn point by the server rules can be camped. Minis in Hate have multiple spawn points all over the zone, a single player or group cannot claim multiple spawn points as their own, so it can't have a list. Similar to the AC in South Ro, who does not have a list because he has multiple spawn points. In addition, Hate minis have a server rule that you must vacate the zone and return after they spawn before you kill them so players couldn't just simply wait. Not to mention the 72 hour timer that would likely prohibit players from sitting in Hate on a list for a lengthy period of time.

Epics are meant to be difficult.

[IXIShaunIXI]

AC in Ocean of Tears is a single spawn point, a single spawn point by the server rules can be camped. Minis in Hate have multiple spawn points all over the zone, a single player or group cannot claim multiple spawn points as their own, so it can't have a list. Similar to the AC in South Ro, who does not have a list because he has multiple spawn points. In addition, Hate minis have a server rule that you must vacate the zone and return after they spawn before you kill them so players couldn't just simply wait. Not to mention the 72 hour timer that would likely prohibit players from sitting in Hate on a list for a lengthy period of time.

Epics are meant to be difficult.

and you all letting this plt farmer do what he dose makes it 1000x more difficult a probelm that needs to be delt with

[Kroshk]

I've already explained to you why you are completely wrong about that. I'd suggest dropping the rhetoric that there is some sort of staff bias here.

[IXIShaunIXI]

thats the word on the street

[Kroshk]

What is the word on the street

[IXIShaunIXI]

What is the word on the street
that eather the GM's are taken a cut or the guy is a GM plate farmer

[Trexller]

that eather the GM's are taken a cut or the guy is a GM plate farmer

I doubt they would risk the entire project over what could not amount to even 100/month

They don't need money that badly, i know this may be difficult for a crackhead like yourself to understand, in fact given your command of spelling and grammar, i am certain you will not understand.

Meth is bad, seek help today

[IXIShaunIXI]

I doubt they would risk the entire project over what could not amount to even 100/month

They don't need money that badly, i know this may be difficult for a crackhead like yourself to understand, in fact given your command of spelling and grammar, i am certain you will not understand.

Meth is bad, seek help today

thank you for the personal attacks ARE you triggerd?
i am disabled -
and spelling is on of my handcaps got any thing more for me please feel free to call me what ever ...

[Trexller]

You could just trust that staff isn't dumb enough to risk the entire project over a couple bucks

[Troxx]

thank you for the personal attacks ARE you triggerd?
i am disabled -
and spelling is on of my handcaps got any thing more for me please feel free to call me what ever ...

I blame the educational system.

Your posts are painful to read.

[IXIShaunIXI]

just by your replys shows how Nasty and rude this comminty has become not as i remeber it back in the day.... rude vil and hateful

[Kroshk]

Hi Shaun,

Since you choose to ignore me while we were in the middle of a conversation I'll provide you with what I messaged you so everyone can see. Out of the last 20 Magi spawns the average time from spawn to engage was over 20 minutes. A single staff dropped out of these 20 magis. Your guild only participated in a single magi kill. Very few of these kills were by hate farmers, the majority were all guilds. If you would like to have an attempt at getting a mage staff I would highly suggest you encourage your guild to spend more time in Hate, or perhaps join another guild.

[Trexller]

just by your replys shows how Nasty and rude this comminty has become not as i remeber it back in the day.... rude vil and hateful

No, the problem is not us, it's everyone who gave you a ribbon just for showing up

[Jimjam]

Hi Shaun,

Since you choose to ignore me while we were in the middle of a conversation I'll provide you with what I messaged you so everyone can see. Out of the last 20 Magi spawns the average time from spawn to engage was over 20 minutes. A single staff dropped out of these 20 magis. Your guild only participated in a single magi kill. Very few of these kills were by hate farmers, the majority were all guilds. If you would like to have an attempt at getting a mage staff I would highly suggest you encourage your guild to spend more time in Hate, or perhaps join another guild.

Hitting Shaun with yellow text!

[Toxigen]

i cant believe a guide actually took the time to try and reason with this guy lmao

[loramin]

Out of the last 20 Magi spawns the average time from spawn to engage was over 20 minutes. A single staff dropped out of these 20 magi.

Is that classic?

[IXIShaunIXI]

Is that classic?

nope, i got my mage on live's epic on my 2nt magi kill ... 3 more mage buddies in my guild got them back to back

[sajbert]

Is that classic?
I could be wrong but afaik the drop rates are just guesswork and if not anchored in any hard or even soft evidence I don't see why the staff should be so rare. Same goes for manastone and a lot of other items.

[IXIShaunIXI]

but then agean this was over 20 years ago

[Nycon43]

Is that classic?

1 in 20 seems nuts to me. I doubt it's classic but good luck proving it(not you I mean, just in general).

[manatoid]

Quite a bit of evidence for a 1 in 4 drop rate was posted here:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=356672

1/20 could still happen with a 25% drop rate, but sure seems like this was just marked as closed and ignored.

[Kroshk]

I'm not sure what you mean as closed and ignored, I am not a developer, I cannot see or impact the drop rates. This isn't a petition, it isn't a bug report, it's just someone complaining about a problem he believes exist.

He also told me yesterday that the plat farmers have so many mage staffs that they kill Magi and delete the extra staffs they haven't sold yet.

I'm simply sharing some data that shows that he is wrong, and I know he isn't the only player who has expressed concerns about the hate farmers so I'm happy to show that it isn't something causing problems.

The more interesting data to really look at would be the percentage of other hate minis that are killed by the hate farmers vs guilds. Guilds might mobilize to hate for Magi, but hate farmers will often help clear the other minis that are up in hate which increases the odds of more Magis. Not to mention the fact that they are increasing the supply of staffs which in turn should theoretically provide the average mage with a better chance of getting one, either because less people in your guild need one or because you can earn one slowly over time by grinding platinum.

In the end the most important thing to remember is that epic quests were a big deal back in live. They weren't meant to be completed easily, and while some are easier to complete it doesn't mean they should all be trivial. I'm impressed with every player I see who has completed any epic, it shows a huge level of dedication to their character.

In addition, remember what most of the complaints are about. People are mad that their guild is getting beat out by a single guy who is tracking and soloing the mobs. You might not be able to convince your guild to be up in hate constantly, but you could put in more effort tracking hate for your guild and try and get them up there faster for magis. You could talk to all the other disgruntled mages, I'm sure at least one of them has an enchanter, one has a wizard, a couple clerics. Form your own hate farming group, make a deal you guys will help each other get them. There are a tons of things you could be doing with the energy instead of complaining.

[manatoid]

I'm not sure what you mean as closed and ignored, I am not a developer, I cannot see or impact the drop rates. This isn't a petition, it isn't a bug report, it's just someone complaining about a problem he believes exist.

Was that thread not moved from bug reports to resolved issues?

[Kroshk]

I'm not sure what thread you are referring to, I'm just talking about this thread.

[manatoid]

The link in my 3 line comment you responded to directly.

[Kroshk]

Oh I didn't read that, I thought you were referring to this thread, my bad.

I don't know anything about that thread, I'm not a developer.

[manatoid]

Oh I didn't read that, I thought you were referring to this thread, my bad.

I don't know anything about that thread, I'm not a developer.

You were able to see the drop rate of the last 20 magis, what about the last 2000?

If the drop rate is not classic, it'd be a far more effective use of a mage's time to bitch about it instead of pooping in their socks.

[Kroshk]

That's me manually clicking through logs, it takes a long time, I'm not manually clicking through 2000 logs.

[manatoid]

Closed and ignored.

[cd288]

Closed and ignored.

Don't be an asshole. He gave you totally valid responses.

[cd288]

just by your replys shows how Nasty and rude this comminty has become not as i remeber it back in the day.... rude vil and hateful

This is very ironic coming from someone who, along with his brother, have scammed people illegally both in real life and on EQ. We all know your history and what kind of people you and your brother are. You're fraudsters.

The fact that you're even still allowed to play and post here is surprising to me.

[manatoid]

Don't be an asshole. He gave you totally valid responses.

Are you kidding? He wrote 6 paragraphs in direct response to me without even reading what I posted, then said he was too lazy to look into it.

[cd288]

Are you kidding? He wrote 6 paragraphs in direct response to me without even reading what I posted, then said he was too lazy to look into it.

He's a guide, not a dev. It's not his job to go through 2,000+ logs. The main reason he responded here was to address and rebut false claims of staff bias/corruption etc., which he did. Guides are not the people you ask or make arguments about drop rates to...those would be the devs. Direct your comments appropriately.

[manatoid]

He's a guide, not a dev. It's not his job to go through 2,000+ logs. The main reason he responded here was to address and rebut false claims of staff bias/corruption etc., which he did. Guides are not the people you ask or make arguments about drop rates to...those would be the devs. Direct your comments appropriately.

Dude there are no devs anymore. Also, he was the one to respond to me, all I did was post a (closed and ignored) bug report. My comments were addressed to the non-existent devs but he decided to pull himself into the conversation again.

[Stakorian]

Dude there are no devs anymore. Also, he was the one to respond to me, all I did was post a (closed and ignored) bug report. My comments were addressed to the non-existent devs but he decided to pull himself into the conversation again.

Is it difficult to type with all of that clown make up on?

[Bagavan]

If you want a mage epic apply to Castle. They see a majority of the earth staffs these days. They incentive tracking these minis so much that they often have two people tracking during windows. Well technically 1 since the other is usually afk scripting :P

[Toxigen]

This is very ironic coming from someone who, along with his brother, have scammed people illegally both in real life and on EQ. We all know your history and what kind of people you and your brother are. You're fraudsters.

The fact that you're even still allowed to play and post here is surprising to me.

remember that time they were in the twitch chat during galach's petition stream talking shit about rogean? Papa R made a guest appearance and revealed to the whole community Ryan and Sean called Rog's employer to say he was a racist anti-semite?

lmao

these fucking dipshits are still on p99 cord after all that and im banned because a circle jerk of kittens incessantly posted a 4 year old private message

and to the guide / mod that did the ban - you're a real winner my dude

[manatoid]

Guys shaun isn't sean.

[cd288]

Dude there are no devs anymore. Also, he was the one to respond to me, all I did was post a (closed and ignored) bug report. My comments were addressed to the non-existent devs but he decided to pull himself into the conversation again.

Re: the post you linked, it's pretty amazing that the person wrote that long of a post and in the end failed to deliver any actual evidence beyond "these guys claimed the staff was easier to get in these forum posts, without presenting any info that they didn't just get lucky"

When it comes to things like actually changing a drop rate, that's not going to be sufficient evidence. Plus, quite frankly, we also have no idea whether the drop rate is off. Someone getting 1 staff in 20 kills does not mean the drop rate is 1 in 20. It means they got bad luck on all the kills they tried. In between the kills they tried there could've been other Magi kills where the staff dropped, for instance. 25% drop rate means 25% of ALL kills over time, not always 25% of the kills a specific player does.

[cd288]

Guys shaun isn't sean.

Yeah, just another meth head named Shaun who says he's from Mass

[manatoid]

Re: the post you linked, it's pretty amazing that the person wrote that long of a post and in the end failed to deliver any actual evidence beyond "these guys claimed the staff was easier to get in these forum posts, without presenting any info that they didn't just get lucky"

When it comes to things like actually changing a drop rate, that's not going to be sufficient evidence. Plus, quite frankly, we also have no idea whether the drop rate is off. Someone getting 1 staff in 20 kills does not mean the drop rate is 1 in 20. It means they got bad luck on all the kills they tried. In between the kills they tried there could've been other Magi kills where the staff dropped, for instance. 25% drop rate means 25% of ALL kills over time, not always 25% of the kills a specific player does.

Yes, I already said a 1 in 20 drop rate doesn't mean anything given sample size. Thanks for ignoring me again.

[Toxigen]

Yeah, just another meth head named Shaun who says he's from Mass

i can tell the way he types, 100% is one of the brothers that literally called rogean's boss and said rogean was a racist anti-semite

[manatoid]

i can tell the way he types, 100% is one of the brothers that literally called rogean's boss and said rogean was a racist anti-semite

I've been in voice with him, it's not sean.

[Trexller]

I've been in voice with him, it's not sean.

why would you admit to that

now we know you're one of them

[7thGate]

Yes, I already said a 1 in 20 drop rate doesn't mean anything given sample size. Thanks for ignoring me again.

I mean, that's far enough off of 25% that its actually already enough samples to be outside the 95% confidence interval for estimating the drop rate. Clopper-Pearson calculator gives a 95% Confidence interval of [0.001265 , 0.2487] even with just that many samples.

[manatoid]

There were probably two Magi's with +50% loot too in the last 20?

[Toxigen]

I mean, that's far enough off of 25% that its actually already enough samples to be outside the 95% confidence interval for estimating the drop rate. Clopper-Pearson calculator gives a 95% Confidence interval of [0.001265 , 0.2487] even with just that many samples.

man thats a badass vindi kill, nice work

[cd288]

Yes, I already said a 1 in 20 drop rate doesn't mean anything given sample size. Thanks for ignoring me again.

So...it doesn't mean anything given sample size yet we're linking a bug report with meaningless data like that and then criticizing the staff for "closed and ignored" on said report? Interesting decision-making process there

[cd288]

i can tell the way he types, 100% is one of the brothers that literally called rogean's boss and said rogean was a racist anti-semite

Yeah he definitely is. Dude should be in jail, not playing P99

[manatoid]

So...it doesn't mean anything given sample size yet we're linking a bug report with meaningless data like that and then criticizing the staff for "closed and ignored" on said report? Interesting decision-making process there

You ever think for yourself or just simp for non-existent staff?

[Duik]

Simping.
Plus its fun to watch meth heads argue over who isnt who because of voice chat.

[cd288]

You ever think for yourself or just simp for non-existent staff?

I'm upset because the drop rate on my epic isn't easy on a server that I only get to play on because some people dedicated a ton of their free time at no cost to me to build/create it...so I'm going to go criticize those people for not being as dedicated as I want them to be to fixing an issue that I believe exists based on purely anecdotal evidence (how dare they not devote their free time to this for zero pay...who do they think they are? Real people with real jobs and life responsibilities!?).

[manatoid]

I'm upset because the drop rate on my epic isn't easy on a server that I only get to play on because some people dedicated a ton of their free time at no cost to me to build/create it...so I'm going to go criticize those people for not being as dedicated as I want them to be to fixing an issue that I believe exists based on purely anecdotal evidence (how dare they not devote their free time to this for zero pay...who do they think they are? Real people with real jobs and life responsibilities!?).

Not upset and honestly I wouldn't waste my time doing the epic even if it was changed. It's too late to make any difference anyway. People were talking about evidence so I posted a relevant link and then mr customer service decided to go off on me.

[Zarakk]

... I'm simply sharing some data ...


I am not defending the person you are talking to here.

But I will ask you for some other data, if you can get it:

(1) How many druid epics are there on P99 Green?
(2) How many cleric epics are there on P99 Green?
(3) How many monk epics are there on P99 Green?
(4) How many magician epics are there on P99 Green?

I have completed all these four epics on P99 Green. I already have my own experience (and those of my guildmates) to go on. But the real data would be interesting...

[IXIShaunIXI]

I am not defending the person you are talking to here.

But I will ask you for some other data, if you can get it:

(1) How many druid epics are there on P99 Green?
(2) How many cleric epics are there on P99 Green?
(3) How many monk epics are there on P99 Green?
(4) How many magician epics are there on P99 Green?

I have completed all these four epics on P99 Green. I already have my own experience (and those of my guildmates) to go on. But the real data would be interesting...

love it

[Trexller]

love it

mark the time!

meth head shaun has spelled a sentence correctly

[IXIShaunIXI]

mark the time!

meth head shaun has spelled a sentence correctly

how do you report a post as harsment , personal attacks .....

[Toxigen]

how do you report a post as harsment , personal attacks .....

this is rnf

suck it up, buttercup

[cd288]

I am not defending the person you are talking to here.

But I will ask you for some other data, if you can get it:

(1) How many druid epics are there on P99 Green?
(2) How many cleric epics are there on P99 Green?
(3) How many monk epics are there on P99 Green?
(4) How many magician epics are there on P99 Green?

I have completed all these four epics on P99 Green. I already have my own experience (and those of my guildmates) to go on. But the real data would be interesting...

The answer to this is that in classic EQ some epics are way easier than others.

As others in the thread have stated, there are plenty of opportunities to farm the minis and get an engage.

[Trexller]

how do you report a post as harsment , personal attacks .....

this is rnf

suck it up, buttercup

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/U1gAAOSwfUtj8OZK/s-l1200.jpg

[Lothisu]

If you want a mage epic apply to Castle. They see a majority of the earth staffs these days. They incentive tracking these minis so much that they often have two people tracking during windows. Well technically 1 since the other is usually afk scripting :P

I would hope Castles leadership is not knowingly allowing this to happen. It is curious that they often have two trackers though.

[WarpathEQ]

This thread is why reimbursements are 8 months delayed and the General chat got nuked in the UN. Nothing but absolute morons.

BTW Khroskk is a boss for beating his head against the wall in here for a few minutes the way the rest of us do every single day playing with these idiots. Thankfully most of you are already banned from in game play.

BTW pretty sure it was Kingdom that got the 1/20 earth staff...sucks to suck

[magnetaress]

Mage epics r only for server kings n queens 👸 🤴

[BigChief]

What would anyone do with all that plat except sell it for real money?

[Duik]

What would anyone do with all that plat except sell it for real money?

Dont underestimate (to the right sort of person) the nerr nerr nerr nerr nerr factor of I have <something> and you dont.
We remember the "sorry you dont got <insert purile item here>" repeated by the socking few. Some may sell 4 cash but many would be happy sitting on a lumo of virtual cash. Sockcoin if you will.

[Toxigen]

What would anyone do with all that plat except sell it for real money?

stand in ec on their bard mule and touch themselves

or buy loot rights for a mega twink

[cd288]

What would anyone do with all that plat except sell it for real money?

I mean, you're not thinking of the way these people are. Everything for them revolves around ultimate BIS everything for every class as well as having ultra rare and expensive pixels in general. Wouldn't be surprised if a farmer like that has basically BISed every slot of almost every class in the game via droppables, MQs, etc.

[Toxigen]

I mean, you're not thinking of the way these people are. Everything for them revolves around ultimate BIS everything for every class as well as having ultra rare and expensive pixels in general. Wouldn't be surprised if a farmer like that has basically BISed every slot of almost every class in the game via droppables, MQs, etc.

pixel sickness final stage

[Ciderpress]

yeah when you consider that fashionquest is a very real thing I can totally believe somebody would want to have an arbitrarily huge amount of plat, just to have it. This is everquest.

I once ground qeynos faction on a de innoruk SK just cause it was cool to walk around qeynos freely on that character.

[magnetaress]

Better chance of mage epics on Tormax and Quarm if you really need one.

[onmove_broke]

I do not think it would be a bad idea to rework epics so they add more steps but make the items more attainable. The server does not have to follow classic 100%. If it was you would be playing in a tiny window at 640x400 and staring at your book till lv 35. Even Diablo 2 after 25 years made a few QOL changes and added items

[onmove_broke]

What would anyone do with all that plat except sell it for real money?

I have to assume people rmt here. I mean how would you even catch it unless someone tattled and showed actual receipts? If it is taking them 6 months for item reimbursement I have to imagine someone who RMTs will never get caught

[azeth]

someone who RMTs will never get caught

No

[fortior]

I have to assume people rmt here. I mean how would you even catch it unless someone tattled and showed actual receipts? If it is taking them 6 months for item reimbursement I have to imagine someone who RMTs will never get caught

the GMs care more about killing RMT than dealing with user error

[Lothisu]

I do not think it would be a bad idea to rework epics so they add more steps but make the items more attainable. The server does not have to follow classic 100%. If it was you would be playing in a tiny window at 640x400 and staring at your book till lv 35. Even Diablo 2 after 25 years made a few QOL changes and added items

I'm fairly sure the devs aren't even active anymore on P99 so that's a pipe dream. I'll say it again, if you want mage epic join Castle. They prioritize Hate and other epics in general over BiS mobs like Doze/Vulak etc, unless it's a quake obviously.

[Ciderpress]

Joining castle means you have to be in castle tho :(

[cd288]

I do not think it would be a bad idea to rework epics so they add more steps but make the items more attainable. The server does not have to follow classic 100%. If it was you would be playing in a tiny window at 640x400 and staring at your book till lv 35. Even Diablo 2 after 25 years made a few QOL changes and added items

That gets patched out during the classic era FYI. And on Green there was spellbook meditating until level 35 during the period of time that it existed in the classic patch timeline.

[cd288]

I have to assume people rmt here. I mean how would you even catch it unless someone tattled and showed actual receipts? If it is taking them 6 months for item reimbursement I have to imagine someone who RMTs will never get caught

New account bashing the server and staff. Which recently banned user are you?

Similar to item reimbursements, the RMT bans tend to come in waves. RMT is pretty easy to spot. I won't go into full detail about how I assume they do it, in case it gives out info the staff don't want people to know. But it's not hard.

[onmove_broke]

New account bashing the server and staff. Which recently banned user are you?

Similar to item reimbursements, the RMT bans tend to come in waves. RMT is pretty easy to spot. I won't go into full detail about how I assume they do it, in case it gives out info the staff don't want people to know. But it's not hard.

Someone is big mad. Yikes. Nobody is bashing anyone. I am pointing out that staff is buried in reimbursements 6 months out. I have to assume they would simply look at someone who traded an item for nothing or for little plat or an item not of equal value. However with all of the tickets it will be hard for them to catch it unless they were monitoring it closely.

[onmove_broke]

That gets patched out during the classic era FYI. And on Green there was spellbook meditating until level 35 during the period of time that it existed in the classic patch timeline.

When people are stuck using classic UI let me know. Because that is as classic as anything.

[onmove_broke]

I'm fairly sure the devs aren't even active anymore on P99 so that's a pipe dream. I'll say it again, if you want mage epic join Castle. They prioritize Hate and other epics in general over BiS mobs like Doze/Vulak etc, unless it's a quake obviously.

I do not need a mage epic but some of the epics are just crazy to obtain. Make the epic process twice as long but not require raids where 20 people are rolling on the same thing.

[loramin]

When people are stuck using classic UI let me know. Because that is as classic as anything.

On Green (at first after launch) you were limited to a single UI skin. It wasn't quite the same as the original UI, for technical reasons, but it was very similar.

See: https://wiki.project1999.com/Green_UI

[Snaggles]

I'm fairly sure the devs aren't even active anymore on P99 so that's a pipe dream. I'll say it again, if you want mage epic join Castle. They prioritize Hate and other epics in general over BiS mobs like Doze/Vulak etc, unless it's a quake obviously.

Castle going for Vulak on quakes?

[Fragged]

What would anyone do with all that plat except sell it for real money?

Quite a few people at the end game deck out their alt toons with strings, bladestopper, beads and AoN - add a manastone if it's a caster. Could even add some tradable raid loot to the mix.

The cost can run up fast.

And some people have many of these toons.

The need for plat is pretty much endless for some people.

[Bardp1999]

Diddly strikes again

[Ciderpress]

Why is everyone so horny for that mage earth staff from hate anyway? Saw somebody selling it for 950k? Wtf? I get it's a major bottleneck, but what do you actually use the epic for? Never played a mage, but I don't seem to ever see them do anything endgame besides coth and make rods.

Is it just a completionist min\max obsessive thing?

[cd288]

Is it just a completionist min\max obsessive thing?

This

[Jimjam]

This

Its to solo doghouse in KC solo while laughing at the poor LFGs.

[magnetaress]

Mage epic 23kr on Oakwynd

[magnetaress]

Mage epic 23kr on Oakwynd

So about the same as here.

[Ciderpress]

I will say the mage epic is definitely one of the cooler looking ones.

Chanter epic still lamest looking, you can barely tell what it is unless you're up close

[Pulgasari]

Its to solo doghouse in KC solo while laughing at the poor LFGs.

As opposed to soloing it in a group?

[Ripqozko]

Why is everyone so horny for that mage earth staff from hate anyway? Saw somebody selling it for 950k? Wtf? I get it's a major bottleneck, but what do you actually use the epic for? Never played a mage, but I don't seem to ever see them do anything endgame besides coth and make rods.

Is it just a completionist min\max obsessive thing?

end game ya mostly are DA'd moving trash around, pets are pointless except to get the trash moving which requires a lvl 4 pet. thats about it.

[Trexller]

Is it just a completionist min\max obsessive thing?

It's exactly this.

mage epic pet is good, but not that good

the 61 pet makes it look like a joke

[Jimjam]

As opposed to soloing it in a group?

Obviously typo, but in fairness some posters suggest soloing in group (e.g. a shaman root rotting mobs while group kills other stuff)…

[Lothisu]

I'm pretty sure Castle couldn't care less about how good mage epic is. That guild seems to prioritize epics in general over other content and that's okay. They do seem to have some weird obsession with Plane of Hate, probably because no other guild really does it? I noticed they were raiding Hate yesterday during 7 day windows :eek:

[Jimjam]

I'm pretty sure Castle couldn't care less about how good mage epic is. That guild seems to prioritize epics in general over other content and that's okay. They do seem to have some weird obsession with Plane of Hate, probably because no other guild really does it? I noticed they were raiding Hate yesterday during 7 day windows :eek:

Like is this a blue castle thing or a green castle thing? or do they do both :D

[Lothisu]

Like is this a blue castle thing or a green castle thing? or do they do both :D

Green server

[Ciderpress]

Well, castle is basically an std. Spread and multiply

[doobie]

I'm pretty sure Castle couldn't care less about how good mage epic is. That guild seems to prioritize epics in general over other content and that's okay. They do seem to have some weird obsession with Plane of Hate, probably because no other guild really does it? I noticed they were raiding Hate yesterday during 7 day windows :eek:

Amazing observation. You're certainly a bright fucking candle.

[Toxigen]

imagine spending 900k on a coth bot

[Jimjam]

imagine spending 900k on a coth bot

I'm not into signalling and flexing, but it is a flex so big even I kinda have to respect it.

[loramin]

imagine spending 900k on a coth bot

Mage immunity clickies let them do a lot more interesting stuff on raids than just CotH/mod rods. Still has nothing to do with their epic, but the "mages are just CotH bots" bit is old and tired.

[enjchanter]

imagine spending 900k on a coth bot

i spent much more than that

[Liia]

I sold my Mage staff for 1 million + Green Dragonscale (Ended up selling GDS also for 1 million) like 2 years ago. I also got several other offers over 1 million when I was looking for a buyer. Considering the market, 950k is pretty fair.

[cd288]

I sold my Mage staff for 1 million + Green Dragonscale (Ended up selling GDS also for 1 million) like 2 years ago. I also got several other offers over 1 million when I was looking for a buyer. Considering the market, 950k is pretty fair.

I don't think anyone was commenting on whether the price is fair vis a vis the market. They were commenting on the insanity of being willing to pay that price for a useless epic.

[booter]

sorry you don't have skittle stick

[loramin]

Sorry our classic server doesn't believe in classic epics.

[loramin]

*Well, mage epics at least; I don't want to overgeneralize.

Obviously plenty of other epics can be completed by actually playing the game as designed (vs. having to play EconomyQuest to purchase it from a farmer .... something that rarely, if ever, happened back in '99-'01).

[Ciderpress]

I don't think anyone was commenting on whether the price is fair vis a vis the market. They were commenting on the insanity of being willing to pay that price for a useless epic.

Yeah exactly. I thought shams paying 150k for tear MQ's on green is insane, and that epic is at least useful.

[WarpathEQ]

Yeah exactly. I thought shams paying 150k for tear MQ's on green is insane, and that epic is at least useful.

Pretty sure you can get them a lot cheaper than that. Its not that Epic MQs are non-classic or that the encounter or drop rates are non-classic, its really a function of a server time locked for an extended period of time.

In live EQ people didn't spend time farming components for additional epics they didn't intend to use as additional expansions and game progression continued to follow and there were bigger and better things to focus on once you achieve your own main epic. Combine this with accounts being something you had to pay per account, it created a world where there was less time in this era to farm this gear, new gear came along that was better and obsoleted the benefits of obtaining these classic items (which also made them less valuable in the market), and the propensity to have multiple characters was much lower as most people were limited to one account or had one shared account for the household.

Simply put if the people that are effectively gate keeping epic pieces for re-sale value had something better to do with their time they would be doing it. Its the same reason that velious armor and NToV droppables were never really sold on live either but are quite common on P99, progression is what prevents a build up of high end items in the marketplace.

[cd288]

*Well, mage epics at least; I don't want to overgeneralize.

Obviously plenty of other epics can be completed by actually playing the game as designed (vs. having to play EconomyQuest to purchase it from a farmer .... something that rarely, if ever, happened back in '99-'01).

Not sure how it's not classic. It's a contested drop. Don't want to pay for it get a group together and go track and contest...just like classic

[Ciderpress]

Its the same reason that velious armor and NToV droppables were never really sold on live either but are quite common on P99, progression is what prevents a build up of high end items in the marketplace.

Yeah but those don't go for literally over a million plat, the MQ prices are totally reasonable for the quality of the item provided, so it's kind of an apples and oranges comparison.

[loramin]

Not sure how it's not classic. It's a contested drop. Don't want to pay for it get a group together and go track and contest...just like classic

On classic, guilds raided for the epic. Here, one person farms it and other people buy it. How do you not see a difference?

[Lothisu]

On classic, guilds raided for the epic. Here, one person farms it and other people buy it. How do you not see a difference?

Loramin do you play Green anymore?? Castle gets most Magis these days. If not for Diddlydee having an option on the market Castle would literally have it completely locked down. They track 24/7 with a ranger and afk necro scripter.

[fortior]

On classic, guilds raided for the epic. Here, one person farms it and other people buy it. How do you not see a difference?

Just like half the stuff on the wiki this is false

[Ciderpress]

Other guilds do get earth staffs usually on quakes. Castle is a massive zergforce but they do not have it 100% locked down.

All beside the point; it's still completely insane to pay 1mil plat for a mage epic.

[Ciderpress]

Buyers need to drive that price down. Haggle a bit, maybe only pay 850k lol

[enjchanter]

imagine letting an earth staff go for 850k

[Trexller]

i wonder how much influence p99 staff has in the price of that item

p99 staff hates mages, unclassicly low pet dmg, agro, next-to-impossible epic

a mage on their own does suck, but mages in large groups can totally cheese content

this is the only good reason i can come up with as to why mages are so nerfed on p99

~20 mages could kill like any kunark dragon just by resummoning pets as they die, that's without epics, 20 epic pets could get some real damage done

[Trexller]

we used to do that back in the day on live, we only needed like 10-12 mages to kill naggy/vox

kunark dragons were killed with like ~20 mages during luclin era

i don't remember trying any velious mobs with this strategy

[Pulgasari]

we used to do that back in the day on live, we only needed like 10-12 mages to kill naggy/vox

kunark dragons were killed with like ~20 mages during luclin era

i don't remember trying any velious mobs with this strategy

Are pets 🐕 immune to life tap?

Both the big kunark bosses have that outside of vp

[Trexller]

it was like gore talendor sev those guys

on p99 i used to duo black reavers/neh'ashiir with another 60 mage just resummoning pets so imagine what 4 could do or 20

[Duik]

Pets were used to kill Phinny as well I believe. Pity idiot me didnt know this. Dispels knocked EB off (remember everyone didnt know to bury buffs...) and well, you know.

For either wiz staff drop or ranger lock of hair drop.
Phinny still has his staff and the mermaids all have beautiful hair.

[loramin]

Loramin do you play Green anymore?? Castle gets most Magis these days. If not for Diddlydee having an option on the market Castle would literally have it completely locked down. They track 24/7 with a ranger and afk necro scripter.

I do play on Green, and just got my epic a couple weeks ago ... but I got my staff awhile back (when Castle was still pretty dominant in Hate, though not as much as you say they are now; Diddly was getting more kills than they were I think).

But my point remains: none of it is classic. In classic, no one had "Hate trackers", because no one ... well first of all, 99.9% of the players didn't even have an extra 45+ level character to leave up in Hate, let alone one with track ... but even if they did, they didn't know about anywhere in the zone that they could leave said character.

For all we know, there was no "safe spot by the pillar" in Hate on live, and it's just a fluke of Nilbog's (inherently imperfect) re-creation here. But whether there was or not, eliminating it here would make Hate so much more classic. Instead of tracking Hate (as no one in '99 ever did) we would all have to actually send groups/raids of people to Hate just to find out if Magi or other epic mobs are up. Diddly and his ilk would be eliminated, and motivated guilds like Castle would still get Magi: classic as fuck.

Isn't the point of this place was to bring back the '99 experience?

[Ciderpress]

There will always be fundamental tension between classic behavior and classic mechanics. Like it or not, people know everything there is to know now, and they didn't then. Should devs here implement new rules to curtail every new emergent thing that didn't exist in 1999? Cause then people will call those rules "unclassic" like rooted dragons. Rooted dragons were implemented in response to a behavior that was ALSO not classic.

They are never gonna please everybody.

[loramin]

There will always be fundamental tension between classic behavior and classic mechanics. Like it or not, people know everything there is to know now, and they didn't then. Should devs here implement new rules to curtail every new emergent thing that didn't exist in 1999? Cause then people will call those rules "unclassic" like rooted dragons. Rooted dragons were implemented in response to a behavior that was ALSO not classic.

They are never gonna please everybody.

I have seen zero evidence that the safe spot is classic, in any sense. The moment anyone produces (say) a bunch of ShowEQ captures from 1999-2001, I'll happily grant that this is "classic environment vs. classic mechanics" concern ... but until then I'm just talking about a bug fix.

Our amazing P99 devs remade Hate with with whatever limited information they had available, and they did an incredible job! Like every zone in the game, it feels just like it did on live.

There's just one tiny detail, the absence of a single mob in one spot .... coupled with P99's years of players exploring Hate ... which has transformed one of the most important quests in the entire game (to mages) from something classic, to something not. I think we should fix that.

[Jimjam]

Anyone who has been in any zone knows the pathing nodes are very different to what they were on live. People seem to think p99 is a perfect copypaste of live, when it is infact just approximation.

The safe spot is certainly an artefact of the arbitrarily best-guessed but wrong nodes.

[fortior]

Diddly and his ilk would be eliminated

you don't actually believe just removing the safe spot would eliminate farm crews

[Trexller]

you don't actually believe just removing the safe spot would eliminate farm crews

Loramin is right, the OG devs would have hated the idea of farm crews and immediately nerfed their ability to farm hate

The OG devs didn't even want agro kiting to exist

Farm crews are an emergent gameplay that is entirely contrary to the spirit of this project

[loramin]

you don't actually believe just removing the safe spot would eliminate farm crews

Maybe, maybe not. They would need more people: no more solo Enchanters ganking Magi, with multiple Cleric bots parked nearby for their "girlfriend" to use. Also, there would be a much higher risk of wipes, because the crew would have to break into Hate (and CR after a fail) without a guild to back them up.

But honestly, if a group of dedicated players zoned up to Hate to track regularly, repeated that a thousand times until Magi spawned, zoned up, broke Hate, pulled Magi and killed him ... I have no problem with that. You're basically describing a small but elite guild at that point.

[magnetaress]

GMs would have messed with the farm crews circa 1999 and let them be KS'd as well

[aaezil]

Imagine not having epic yet in 2024

Just try to not become salty and bitter like Ramen over it!

[Balimon]

I have seen zero evidence that the safe spot is classic, in any sense. The moment anyone produces (say) a bunch of ShowEQ captures from 1999-2001, I'll happily grant that this is "classic environment vs. classic mechanics" concern ... but until then I'm just talking about a bug fix.

Our amazing P99 devs remade Hate with with whatever limited information they had available, and they did an incredible job! Like every zone in the game, it feels just like it did on live.

There's just one tiny detail, the absence of a single mob in one spot .... coupled with P99's years of players exploring Hate ... which has transformed one of the most important quests in the entire game (to mages) from something classic, to something not. I think we should fix that.

Hey congrats man! I'm glad you finally got it, I know it was a crazy road for ya. To your point, there were safe spots in classic in Plate of Hate, all the way through the revamp. I didn't raid pre-Kunark, I started playing in Sept. of 99', and I finally got up to hate in late Kunark and all through Velious.

So pre-revamp the prevailing strategy on my server was to form up groups and port up, and then everyone would exit the port in room, run to the south wall and follow it to approximately where it says 'Pull spot' on the map, near the southwest corner. We would run to the very top of the wall and camp out there. Usually one of the clerics made it and would be able to log in and rez people. I'd like to also mention that there were mobs that saw through rogue hide/sneak, my buddy played a rogue and he was our star player because he was good at dodging the see invis patrollers and drag people to the safe spot for rezes.

Post-revamp we did the same strategy, although it was a lot easier since so many of us were higher level and wouldn't aggro as much on the run over, I remember surviving the run usually to camp out. I know memory can be flawed, and I know that we did it post revamp because I got my Indo BP off Grandmaster R'tal along with boots. The adrenaline rush from winning such an amazing item is something I'll never forget. Anyway, my point is that there were always safe spots in these zones, and while obviously the version that we play with isn't the same, it replicates the safe spots in different ways.

[loramin]

Fair enough; while not "classic evidence" in the strictest sense, I have no doubt you're telling the truth.

So it's not a bug fix ... but I still think the server would be far more classic without a Hate safe spot. People would do something so much closer to what you just described ... vs. "I bought by epic off the Enchanter who soloed it (and two-boxed a cleric to rez himself after he failed the first time)".

Also, this is a 20 year old emu, and we all know its ins and outs. P99 is (almost) as classic, mechanically, as it can be. Isn't it time to take a step back, look at the goal of this place, and think "major guilds (not one guild or farm crew) should raid Hate to get Mage epics ... like they did back in '01"? Isn't preserving the experience of the most challenging goal in the whole game (for most Mages at least) more important than whether or not an extra couple of ghouls spawn (that didn't back in '01)?

[loramin]

Hey congrats man! I'm glad you finally got it, I know it was a crazy road for ya.

P.S. Thanks! :D

[Bagavan]

Fair enough; while not "classic evidence" in the strictest sense, I have no doubt you're telling the truth.

So it's not a bug fix ... but I still think the server would be far more classic without a Hate safe spot. People would do something so much closer to what you just described ... vs. "I bought by epic off the Enchanter who soloed it (and two-boxed a cleric to rez himself after he failed the first time)".

Also, this is a 20 year old emu, and we all know its ins and outs. P99 is (almost) as classic, mechanically, as it can be. Isn't it time to take a step back, look at the goal of this place, and think "major guilds (not one guild or farm crew) should raid Hate to get Mage epics ... like they did back in '01"? Isn't preserving the experience of the most challenging goal in the whole game (for most Mages at least) more important than whether or not an extra couple of ghouls spawn (that didn't back in '01)?

Pretty interesting allegation there Loramin. What evidence do you have to back that up?? Two boxing isn't allowed on this server and rezzing with a pocket cleric isn't either.

[Trexller]

Pretty interesting allegation there Loramin. What evidence do you have to back that up?? Two boxing isn't allowed on this server and rezzing with a pocket cleric isn't either.

It happens, you know it happens, everyone knows it happens

That's enough evidence for this court

[Balimon]

Fair enough; while not "classic evidence" in the strictest sense, I have no doubt you're telling the truth.

So it's not a bug fix ... but I still think the server would be far more classic without a Hate safe spot. People would do something so much closer to what you just described ... vs. "I bought by epic off the Enchanter who soloed it (and two-boxed a cleric to rez himself after he failed the first time)".

Also, this is a 20 year old emu, and we all know its ins and outs. P99 is (almost) as classic, mechanically, as it can be. Isn't it time to take a step back, look at the goal of this place, and think "major guilds (not one guild or farm crew) should raid Hate to get Mage epics ... like they did back in '01"? Isn't preserving the experience of the most challenging goal in the whole game (for most Mages at least) more important than whether or not an extra couple of ghouls spawn (that didn't back in '01)?

Personally I think the drop rate of the earth staff is the real issue, there's some compelling evidence that it was much more common off Innoruuk and Magi. No one ever mentions the earth staff as the bottleneck in the old listservs, it's usually Quillmane. From my memory that's what I recall as well. However I really can't say for certain, I didn't pay attention to mages at all in classic, I only cared about melee. I just remember the complaints about getting the Peggy cloak as the loudest part.

[fortior]

its the devs choice to make mages life hell, since plenty of non-classic changes were made in p99 for gameplay benefits, and this specific drop rate is entirely based on vibes

[Duik]

No one ever mentions the earth staff as the bottleneck in the old listservs, it's usually Quillmane.

That is my recollection as well. I didnt need it but an IRL guildy friend did. He was in ELON on Prexus. I was lvl 20 then so i didnt partake in the hunts but kept up with his progress.

[Trexller]

mages don't exactly need help from others to get quillmane, and it used to be farmed like 24/7 for years so everyone has one or their alts to do their guildie does and they just MQ

[Balimon]

mages don't exactly need help from others to get quillmane, and it used to be farmed like 24/7 for years so everyone has one or their alts to do their guildie does and they just MQ

People didn't understand the spawn mechanic back then, Quill was a rare and mysterious mob. The benefits of 25 years of wikis, and of course the devs spilling the beans on how it worked sure help today.

[cd288]

I do play on Green, and just got my epic a couple weeks ago ... but I got my staff awhile back (when Castle was still pretty dominant in Hate, though not as much as you say they are now; Diddly was getting more kills than they were I think).

But my point remains: none of it is classic. In classic, no one had "Hate trackers", because no one ... well first of all, 99.9% of the players didn't even have an extra 45+ level character to leave up in Hate, let alone one with track ... but even if they did, they didn't know about anywhere in the zone that they could leave said character.

The mechanics of it being an FTE contested spawn are classic. Just because someone farms it isn't an issue. You're an odd individual honestly. Calling things "not classic" because someone has knowledge that they didn't back in 1999...like, we don't have one of those things in Men In Black to wipe everyone's memory dude

[cd288]

People didn't understand the spawn mechanic back then, Quill was a rare and mysterious mob. The benefits of 25 years of wikis, and of course the devs spilling the beans on how it worked sure help today.

Correct. Quillmane was such a pain in the ass back then because no one knew the PHs, the paths of the PHs through the zone, etc. It took quite awhile as well as data mining to figure that out. Quillmane is so easy today because we know all the PHs and where they wander to, so with a tracker you can get it done easily.

[loramin]

The mechanics of it being an FTE contested spawn are classic. Just because someone farms it isn't an issue. You're an odd individual honestly. Calling things "not classic" because someone has knowledge that they didn't back in 1999...like, we don't have one of those things in Men In Black to wipe everyone's memory dude

There's an obvious difference between a guild (or "farm crew" group) porting up to Hate to check on a mob periodically (ie. what happened between '99-'01) vs. having a single person sit up there for hours on end (perfectly safe), watching for the moment the mob spawns. The latter is like combat bind wounds: it has only ever happened on P99, never in classic.

It's clear from your post history you are neither dumb, nor do you lack understanding of this game; I'm puzzled on why you're having such difficulty with this distinction I'm making :confused:

Pretty interesting allegation there Loramin. What evidence do you have to back that up?? Two boxing isn't allowed on this server and rezzing with a pocket cleric isn't either.

I literally saw it happen in front of my eyes, many times during 6 months of tracking. I was often talking to the person behind both boxes as they did it ... and very often it was me they were rezzing! Sometimes it was because they'd gotten our tracker killed, but sometimes they did it even when it wasn't their fault at all.

For the record, they didn't 2-box every rez. Usually they would try to camp out the Enchanter first to pretend they were switching to the Cleric ... but at times (and after 6 months, I saw many of these) they wouldn't bother with the charade. It was pretty clear it was 2-boxing because of how immediately the Cleric came online (there was no time to text a human and ask them to get on).

I maintain both that a Magi farmer (I still have yet to name a name) is a regular 2-box violator ... and that said person was pretty much always considerate to me, even to the point of using their 2-boxing to help me. Maybe they were a genuinely nice person, or maybe they just didn't want to attract GM attention; I can only report what I saw.

[loramin]

I maintain both that a Magi farmer (I still have yet to name a name) is a regular 2-box violator

Actually I should really say "was" not "is" there; again this is all based on a 6-month period in 2023, and for all I know there are completely different farmers up there now.

[Kroshk]

For what it's worth, I looked back through your petitions and I see 0 times where you petitioned boxers, so if you are as convinced as you say you are that they were boxing than you are just as complicit if they were boxing to rez you.

Please petition players who you think are boxing, RMTing, breaking the rules in whatever way you think. I promise you we do care, and I promise you people do get caught.

[loramin]

Going for the widely respected RnF triple-post ;)

Just to add to what I said to CD288: I fully understand that Hate had safe spots in classic ...

To your point, there were safe spots in classic in Plate of Hate, all the way through the revamp. I didn't raid pre-Kunark, I started playing in Sept. of 99', and I finally got up to hate in late Kunark and all through Velious.

My argument is not "classic mechanics = no safe spots".

My argument is "P99 would be a better emulator of classic EverQuest if people had to do what they did in '99 for the most important quest in the game to Magicians, instead of a competely different thing they never did back then".

[loramin]

For what it's worth, I looked back through your petitions and I see 0 times where you petitioned boxers, so if you are as convinced as you say you are that they were boxing than you are just as complicit if they were boxing to rez you.

Please petition players who you think are boxing, RMTing, breaking the rules in whatever way you think. I promise you we do care, and I promise you people do get caught.

As I outlined above, there is one path to an epic on this box if you're not in Castle. You can say "trust me it will all work out fine" ... but by asking me to report an established Hate farmer, you're essentially asking me to risk my one chance at an epic. I was between a rock and a hard place: this has clearly been going on for a long time on the server, and I can't read the staff's mind: how am I to know the Hate farmer isn't really Nilbog's IRL bestie?

I have a great deal of love for this server, and I will happily report 2-boxers under most conditions. But, at the time (again, this was all last year), I just wasn't willing to risk never getting an epic for my Mage (and because I genuinely liked my guild and didn't want to lose all my DKP, I didn't want to switch to Castle, even though they seem like a great guild).

I hope you can respect that, but if you feel the need to punish me I'll understand. Even so, I still maintain that letting one player and one guild gatekeep an epic quest, by doing things never (or almost never) done between '99-'01, makes P99 less classic.

[Kroshk]

I'm so confused. I know this thread is in RNF now so it's hardly serious, but still.

You believe that there are two paths to a mage epic, one is through a player who farms hate, sometimes boxes and might be Nilbog' IRL bestie?

The other path was through Castle, the only other guild that kills Magi.

Out of the last 40 magis:
Castle 11
Kingdom 8
Safe Space 4
Good Guys 2
Linerate 2
Drift 1

Hate Farmers 13

5 different hate farmers plus Castle only make up 25 out of the last 40 magi kills, hardly seems like gatekeeping. And as I've said before, the hate farmers kill the majority of the other hate minis, which causes more Magis to spawn for everyone. Guilds won't port up to kill a random Ashenbone, but hate farmers will.

Guilds are going to have different preferences for targets, if a guild is prioritizing Hate they are doing that while sacrificing something else.

As far as the Hate farmers, my favorite question to ask people complaining about them is why are you whining so much about getting beat by one guy. Have you ever considered trying to farm your own epic piece? Have you ever considered trying to talk to other people who also want a mage epic and forming your own farm crew?

[loramin]

I'm so confused

I tried to be clear that this all occurred during a six month period in 2023:

I do play on Green, and just got my epic a couple weeks ago ... but I got my staff awhile back (when Castle was still pretty dominant in Hate, though not as much as you say they are now; Diddly was getting more kills than they were I think).

(again, this was all last year)

So

Out of the last 40 magis:

Isn't relevant. You're welcome to dig up the stats on Magi kills on early 2023 (I'd honestly be curious to see them) ... but I can tell you for a fact (because I was up in Hate tracking most days) that the majority of staffs went to Castle/farmers.

Kingdom got 4 Magi during that period for instance (maybe 5? I think someone else might have tracked one ... it's been awhile?). We got zero staves. Obviously, RNG is a factor, guild priorities are a factor, etc. ... I'm not denying any of that.

But what I keep repeating ... and what no one seems to want to address ... is that no one (or virtually no one) was tracking Hate in '99-'01. 99% of players didn't have two accounts. Less than 10% of those that did had Rangers. At least 50% of those players didn't have internet connections that lasted that long ... and only some small percentage of those had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate.

Back in classic EQ there was no single human staring at their computer waiting for Magi to pop; it simply never happened. But it's the default here: it's how virtually every Mage on the entire server (excluding Castle ones who get it on quakes) get their epic.

Virtually every mage on the server is doing something 100% unclassic for their most important quest ... all I'm saying is, that contrasts sharply with the "Classic EverQuest" in the logo in the upper-left.

[Balimon]

Loramin I don't understand why you think we should play the way we did back in '99? With modern internet connections and all knowledge available emergent gameplay is going to happen. People being able to solo/duo farm raid zones is something that is totally doable now. I don't understand what it is that you want? Do you want everyone to have to port up with groups and raid the old fashioned way?

I'd also like to point out that I was able to get two Earth staves to drop in a 9 month period (sept '21-june '22) for my guild using the methods I outline in my guide and on the Magi wiki page. I ran weekly Hate raids for the guild, the trick is to run them on weekends and Wednesdays. People weren't clearing the PH's as much back then, so I made sure that we did at least once a week. I also had positive interactions with the farm crews, even if I don't like how they operate. My point is that there are multiple ways to get one and as Kroshk so awesomely posted, no one has a monopoly on Magi.

[loramin]

Loramin I don't understand why you think we should play the way we did back in '99? With modern internet connections and all knowledge available emergent gameplay is going to happen. People being able to solo/duo farm raid zones is something that is totally doable now. I don't understand what it is that you want? Do you want everyone to have to port up with groups and raid the old fashioned way?

I want our emulator to match the game from '99-'01 as closely as it can in 2024.

Look, there's always a tension here, between classic mechanics and classic environment, right? Generally speaking, the powers that be choose mechanics over environment ... but then sometimes the pendulum swings too far and comes back, and we get an unclassic mechanic that makes the server a better emulator overall.

Consider that countless "bugs" (ie. classic mechanics that were easily exploitable with player knowledge .... eg. early whirl till you hurl) were deliberately not reimplimimented on Green,
unclassicly. Dragons are rooted unclassically. Key mobs need /list unclassicly, and so on.

My point is, the best emulator isn't always the one that emulates mechanics the most accurately. Sometimes not doing the classic thing mechanically makes the game closer to what its trying to reproduce.

I submit that when virtually every Mage in the game is getting their epic in an unclassic way, that should be addressed, even at the cost of unclassic mechanics (eg. adding an unclassic spawn). So yes, I do think we should have to port up to Hate to check on mobs. That was the game in '99-'01, and no oneis even trying to deny it.

I don't see why everyone is so keen on preserving the absence of a few spawn points ... over getting to actually play Hate the way we all did back in '01. The latter seems vastly more important to me.

[loramin]

P.S. And this is not just a Mage issue. Obviously Mages are most impacted, but several other classes have epic bits in Hate too. Also, in Green 2.0 Hate will be prime raiding grounds, briefly, and people will be tracking Inny.

The whole game gets closer to what it was, for everyone ... or at least for raiders .. if the staff can find a way to eliminate Hate tracking. It may be classic mechanically, but its as unclassic as in-combat bind wounds.

[Naerron]

tbh i think you all just forget what it was like or just didn't raid or try to get your epic in era on live.

Epics were hard, I was stuck for a year trying to get green scales in a family style raiding guild. It was my last step on live and here.

In this era on live people were camping these mobs like mage epic staff just as hard. If you hop on archive.org and go look at the old soe forums...it's a bit cringey how similar they are to these forums at current.

If you want most epics on this server, like on live, in this era, you have a few basic routes. This goes for all epics, it's just on a bit a spectrum, rogue epic 30k, a single part of mage epic..800k. This list is also from quickest to almost not likely to happen.

1. Join a raiding guild that do these mobs and put in the time to get the dkp to get your items. There are multiple options for this, look at the raid drafts for a solid idea.

2. You and your 2-3 buds go ham farming fungi tunics to buy quest items and MQ's.

3. Get together your current play group or guild do your best to do what you can and then reach out to guilds that raid to stuff to try collaborating to get access to things in raid zones. Then get back to seb bc plat still needed for the rest of the quest items.

4. Take your best team and turn them into a raiding guild and then spend 18-24 hours of everyday for the next 10 years building the infrastructure needed to be competitive against guilds that farm this stuff.

5. GM event in your wildest dream.

[loramin]

Everything you wrote is true about P99. Here's something else true about P99: its supposed to be about re-creating classic EQ.

In classic EQ there were no options 2 or 3. Skipping lots of Hate raids and paying a boxer to farm it for you was never an option back in 99-01.

If you buy an epic on a classic emu server, it should be from the guild or team that farmed it classically.

[Trexller]

In classic EQ there were no options 2 or 3. Skipping lots of Hate raids and paying a boxer to farm it for you was never an option back in 99-01.

sorry man

back in like 2000 i had a friend who was this rich chinese kid and he was selling lvl 50 accts, items, and for a price would go out and grind, quest, camp or just play the game for you.

it was completely overt on ebay and such

i didn't really start eq to play a game, i started playing because he was making 1000s at age 15

turns out the game was great and i ended up hopelessly addicted and only ever made ~1000 off of it

[cd288]

I tried to be clear that this all occurred during a six month period in 2023:





So



Isn't relevant. You're welcome to dig up the stats on Magi kills on early 2023 (I'd honestly be curious to see them) ... but I can tell you for a fact (because I was up in Hate tracking most days) that the majority of staffs went to Castle/farmers.

Kingdom got 4 Magi during that period for instance (maybe 5? I think someone else might have tracked one ... it's been awhile?). We got zero staves. Obviously, RNG is a factor, guild priorities are a factor, etc. ... I'm not denying any of that.

But what I keep repeating ... and what no one seems to want to address ... is that no one (or virtually no one) was tracking Hate in '99-'01. 99% of players didn't have two accounts. Less than 10% of those that did had Rangers. At least 50% of those players didn't have internet connections that lasted that long ... and only some small percentage of those had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate.

Back in classic EQ there was no single human staring at their computer waiting for Magi to pop; it simply never happened. But it's the default here: it's how virtually every Mage on the entire server (excluding Castle ones who get it on quakes) get their epic.

Virtually every mage on the server is doing something 100% unclassic for their most important quest ... all I'm saying is, that contrasts sharply with the "Classic EverQuest" in the logo in the upper-left.

Why is it not relevant? It seems like those stats are totally relevant. Your argument is that things aren't classic currently because people outside Castle are all paying Hate farmers for an MQ. The staff showed that's not the case currently. Just because it may have been the situation back when you did your epic is actually the irrelevant point...what's relevant is what things are like today.

Also, as an aside, seems a little bit disingenuous to say that things should be changed to prevent MQs after you admitted to not reporting hate farmers for what you suspected to be boxing because you wanted to get your epic.

[Tann]

In classic EQ there were no options 2

???

I got my bard epic on live via an MQ, had the whole thing done except was missing one of the scales. Guild had just done trak when undead bard popped, a guildie had the scale I needed and we jetted back to DL (i think DL? it's been decades) to do an MQ so i could trigger trak.

[Tann]

though maybe this is just specific to mage epic?

[cd288]

???

I got my bard epic on live via an MQ, had the whole thing done except was missing one of the scales. Guild had just done trak when undead bard popped, a guildie had the scale I needed and we jetted back to DL (i think DL? it's been decades) to do an MQ so i could trigger trak.

MQs existed but they were not nearly as prevalent as they are today. But yeah it depended on the server and the player. I wouldn't say people were MQing in 99 or 2000 (at least not in my experience) but MQs were happening in 2001 for sure...but at the same time I wouldn't say it was commonplace

[cd288]

For context my last comment is slightly incorrect, you can find comments on Allakhazam from the classic era referring to MQs. I've found some on quest pages dating to pre-epic release (so pre- September 2000) so it looks like people were MQing in general (but again probably not as much as they are on P99).

One other thing to keep in mind with respect to epic MQing in the classic era specifically: Epics were released in mid-September 2000. It took multiple months for knowledge of how to complete the quests to filter out to the vast majority of the community. So really for epics you're looking at a bit less than all of 2001 as the only part of the classic era where epic MQs would likely have been occurring.

[loramin]

Your argument is that things aren't classic currently because people outside Castle are all paying Hate farmers for an MQ.

No, my argument is that Hate tracking is unclassic ... because no one tracked Hate back then. A solo Enchanter tracking Hate spawns (and then killing them by himself) NEVER HAPPENED IN '99-'01! Even guilds having trackers up there NEVER HAPPENED!

I got my bard epic on live via an MQ, had the whole thing done except was missing one of the scales.


back in like 2000 i had a friend who was this rich chinese kid and he was selling lvl 50 accts, items, and for a price would go out and grind, quest, camp or just play the game for you.

I may have known that same kid ;). The (Chinese) friend that got me into the game made good money RMTing ... and after he left the game, I got to use his Druid for two-boxing :D

So look, I have zero illusions that selling items (for plat or RMT), 2-boxing, or other craziness happend on live. I participated in plenty of it.

But this isn't live: dual-boxing isn't allowed here, even though it was classic. Why? Because allowing it would make the server overall a whole lot less classic ... just like the Hate safe spot.

Finally, I just want to quote Nilbog from when he first announced the server (https://wiki.project1999.com/Project_1999#How_Was_Project_1999_Originally_Annou nced.3F), over a decade ago:

- btw, The Plane of Fear will own you in the face, GL on your lustrous russet.

P99 was never supposed to be for lazy people who want things handed to them by unclassic easy EQ: it was supposed to be "hard mode", for people who wanted the real game from '99-'01.

Real classic "hard mode" EQ requires going up to Hate to check on mobs.

[Trexller]

I may have known that same kid ;). The (Chinese) friend that got me into the game made good money RMTing ... and after he left the game, I got to use his Druid for two-boxing :D

Did you live in PA at that time?

[loramin]

Did you live in PA at that time?

No, CA :)

[cd288]

NEVER HAPPENED IN '99-'01! Even guilds having trackers up there NEVER HAPPENED!

Ah but here's the flaw in your argument, like many other "non classic" arguments you've made before. You just use your own memory/server's experience to declare what you believe to be non-classic. Hate tracking could've happened in the classic era on other servers (certainly by late 2001 right before Luclin came out I wouldn't be surprised if it was happening - by then in terms of knowledge/ability people were WAY far along). Just because you don't remember it happening on your server doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Just look at your statements on MQ for example. You insisted it wasn't a common practice in the classic era (probably based on your experience/memory of your own server) but you can find lots of comments talking about MQing as early as 2000 pre-epic era.

[loramin]

Ah but here's the flaw in your argument, like many other "non classic" arguments you've made before. You just use your own memory/server's experience to declare what you believe to be non-classic. Hate tracking could've happened in the classic era on other servers (certainly by late 2001 right before Luclin came out I wouldn't be surprised if it was happening - by then in terms of knowledge/ability people were WAY far along). Just because you don't remember it happening on your server doesn't mean it didn't happen.

But what I keep repeating ... and what no one seems to want to address ... is that no one (or virtually no one) was tracking Hate in '99-'01. 99% of players didn't have two accounts. Less than 10% of those that did had Rangers. At least 50% of those players didn't have internet connections that lasted that long ... and only some small percentage of those had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate.

Back in classic EQ there was no single human staring at their computer waiting for Magi to pop; it simply never happened. But it's the default here: it's how virtually every Mage on the entire server (excluding Castle ones who get it on quakes) get their epic.

Virtually every mage on the server is doing something 100% unclassic for their most important quest ... all I'm saying is, that contrasts sharply with the "Classic EverQuest" in the logo in the upper-left.

[cd288]

So you responded to my comment that the only thing you offer as a non-classic argument is your own opinion/recollection of your server by...doing the same thing as I said you are doing? Interesting strategy.

As an aside, I find it slightly ironic that you mention technological limitations as one of the reasons in your comment...yet you totally disregard technological limitations as arguments that have made against you on other debates.

[loramin]

I responded with basic logic. If you are capable of following basic logic, then stop criticizing me for using logic, and use your brain to point out the flaw in my logic ... if such a flaw exists.

[cd288]

I responded with basic logic. If you are capable of following basic logic, then stop criticizing me for using logic, and use your brain to point out the flaw in my logic ... if such a flaw exists.

So now your own experience/recollection from your play server back in the day is defined as basic logic. Got it.

[loramin]

So you have no rebuttal to my logic; got it.

[cd288]

So you have no rebuttal to my logic; got it.

The rebuttal is the simple statement that claiming "this is what I remember so this means it's not classic" or "this is how it was on my server so that's how it was in all of EverQuest" is illogical and nonsensical (which is ironic seeing you call it logic).

[Ciderpress]

To correct unclassic behavior, let's just make unclassic game mechanic changes.

And around and around we go.

[Ciderpress]

In classic, I had my epic. On this server I do not have my epic. This is very unclassic.

[Ciderpress]

Oh also, just pointing out that tons of people had multiple accounts that they paid for during classic. You have to remember how insanely addicted to this game people were. Poopsock is a term for a reason. I believe somebody's baby died from neglect because of this game, iirc. 20-30 bucks a month instead of 10 was a meaningless distinction to such types.

[loramin]

So, the point of this place is to emulate '99-'01, and no one tracked Hate in '99-'01, but P99 should have Hate tracking anyways because ... neglected babies?

[Trexller]

Loramin is just being difficult for fun, aka trolling

there's no way he could be that dumb

[Duik]

Loramin is just being difficult for fun, aka trolling

there's no way he could be that dumb

I dunno, I'd like to take that that challenge. ///

[Trexller]

I dunno, I'd like to take that that challenge. ///

I fully believe you will rise to the moment and succeed in this challenge

[loramin]

Such vicious personal attacks :eek:

https://imaprilchristina.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/stop-pain-gif.gif

Look, y'all can keep making bad insults, or you can use your brains and point out an actual flaw in my argument. Here it is, again, with numbered points you can easily reference.

Back in '99-'01 ...

99% of players didn't have two accounts
< 10% of those with 2nd accounts had 45+ level Rangers on them (a safe assumption since there are more than ten classes, and getting to 45 was hard back then)
< 50% had connections that lasted, consistently, for hours at a time
< 1% willing to do something that crazy; the risk of losing your corpse and/or tons of XP was scarier back then
< 1% had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate


Let's just throw out #3 (the Internet connection one), because I don't want to argue the exact percentage, and let's throw out #4 for the same reason: that still leaves 1% of 10% of 1%, ie. ... 0.001%.

Like I keep saying, maybe someone did it once, but 99.99% of all classic play involved 0% Hate tracking.

[Trexller]

dude must be serious he's coming at us with math

back in the day I definitely had several accounts, I remember my dad bitching about spending 80/month on his CC. I had 2 computers, one was an alienware and the 2nd was something i scavenged from family

the house had 3 phone lines, i couldn't talk my dad into getting DSL so yeah connection was annoying. the day we got cable broadband is up there with losing my virginity, no joke there, it was mind blowing.

We don't know that a safe spot in hate didn't exist, I doubt there is anyone alive on planet earth who knows for sure.

So if P99 staff didn't put in a safe spot on purpose (although i bet they did), then it's a happy accident.

hate tracking probably did occur, but not at scale. Those early power guilds had Verant staff as members, so they would know every single trick.

So while we can't say that the way we play on P99 in 2024 was the META back in 2000, it was absolutely possible in the year 2000

and being absolutely possible, is plenty of reason to be that way on p99

[Trexller]

back in the day, we never came up with all of the emergent gameplay that we employ on P99 because on live we never had the time.

on P99 we have nothing but time

in 2001 we were into luclin, people were like raid hate? fuck that im goin to vex thal

[Duik]

I know serveral unsafe spots in hate.

[cd288]

Such vicious personal attacks :eek:

https://imaprilchristina.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/stop-pain-gif.gif

Look, y'all can keep making bad insults, or you can use your brains and point out an actual flaw in my argument. Here it is, again, with numbered points you can easily reference.

Back in '99-'01 ...

99% of players didn't have two accounts
< 10% of those with 2nd accounts had 45+ level Rangers on them (a safe assumption since there are more than ten classes, and getting to 45 was hard back then)
< 50% had connections that lasted, consistently, for hours at a time
< 1% willing to do something that crazy; the risk of losing your corpse and/or tons of XP was scarier back then
< 1% had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate


Let's just throw out #3 (the Internet connection one), because I don't want to argue the exact percentage, and let's throw out #4 for the same reason: that still leaves 1% of 10% of 1%, ie. ... 0.001%.

Like I keep saying, maybe someone did it once, but 99.99% of all classic play involved 0% Hate tracking.

Yet again, you come and post your opinions as facts. You're the Donald Trump of the P99 forums. None of anything you're saying is provable and, in fact, some of it is just incorrect based on others' personal experiences.

Especially if we're talking like 2001 part of the classic era, I had an internet connection that worked literally all day and night without a disconnect (except occasionally if a zone got way overpopulated, like during a GM event (or to use a Luclin example, in the bazaar)).

Plenty of people were doing crazy shit in 2001 for sure.

You can find posts with the large raiding guilds talking about safe spots in the planes (and safe spots being moved in patches) from the classic era.

And to add an additional note with respect to one of the things that started this whole discussion, you can find discussions of MQ from the classic pre-epic era and you can find people requesting staff MQs post-epic release, which would indicate that not only were people aware of (and utilizing) MQs for quests (including epics) but that there were people taking staff drops in Hate and selling them.

You're just not correct man. At the very very least you just had a server that was different from others and your experience there is only informative insofar as the statement is "MY server didn't do this"

[azeth]

On Rodcet Nife in 1999 I raided Plane of Hate with the guild Avatars of Discord and we used 2 different safe spots to pull to. One along the east wall, another on the second floor. Totally safe to afk, no panthers etc

[azeth]

Pathers*

[loramin]

back in the day I definitely had several accounts,

I believe you (and as I stated, I 2-boxed in classic also) ... but, again my point wasn't "no one 2-boxed in classic", it was:

99% of players didn't have two accounts

Do you contest that point?

Similarly, I 100% agree with:
on P99 we have nothing but time

But again, I'm defining "what is classic?" as "what was done in '99-'01". I feel that's a more reasonable definition than "what could possibly be done, given an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of keyboards".


in fact, some of it is just incorrect based on others' personal experiences.

Ok, please show exactly that.

I had an internet connection that worked literally all day

I played at a cyber cafe with a T1! But are you disputing?


< 50% had connections that lasted, consistently, for hours at a time


... and if so ... why? I literally conceded that point in my last post!

My argument doesn't need that point to win, and I didn't want to quibble with pedants over the exact percentage. So, even though I believe it to be true, proving otherwise doesn't impact my argument.

You can find posts with the large raiding guilds talking about safe spots in the planes (and safe spots being moved in patches) from the classic era.

I call bullshit unless you can provide a single source. Let's save you time though: even if you could (and I truly don't think you can), it still would just change:

< 1% had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate

to:

< 2% had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate

Right? You're not going to find evidence that 2+% of classic knew about Hate safe spots:

https://y.yarn.co/78113dea-76d1-4be7-9afe-744ade317657_text.gif

you can find discussions of MQ from the classic pre-epic era

This is what's known as a straw man defense; instead of arguing against my points, you argue that MQ is classic ... which has nothing to do with my argument.

there were people taking staff drops in Hate and selling them.

Same thing here: my argument isn't "no one ever sold a Mage epic in classic" (though I would argue it was incredibly rare). Debating points that aren't on my list doesn't hurt my argument!

You're just not correct man.

Maybe I am, but you've done a piss poor job of disputing any of the central points I made.

Look CD, when someone says "I believe X to be true, because of points A, B, and C", you don't convince anyone of anything by arguing against point F or point Q. You have to make a good point (with logic, with evidence, etc.) that contradicts A, B, or C.

[loramin]

You know, I feel like I'm not doing RnF justice.

You're all a bunch of easy mode crybabies who known nothing about Classic EQ. You've played too long here and gotten soft.

You probably never even played it, and just pretended to play while looking over your older brother's shoulder. Stop being incompetent: you don't need a loser unclassically sitting 24/7 in Hate to play the game for you. Git gud!

Ah ... that feels much better.

[danzig]

< 1% willing to do something that crazy; the risk of losing your corpse and/or tons of XP was scarier back then
< 1% had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate

IRC: Conversation with Aradune 07/04/2000

Quote:
<Strago> Aradune you should also upgrade hate. The southwest corner is totally lame. People using NO tatics can just go in and pull away. Its not even worthy of having the name "Plane of Hate", it should be "Plane of get armor for free"
<Aradune> strago: yeah, it needs an upgrade. at first these zones are really hard, but then over time they get easier as people learn

[Toxigen]

You know, I feel like I'm not doing RnF justice.

You're all a bunch of easy mode crybabies who known nothing about Classic EQ. You've played too long here and gotten soft.

You probably never even played it, and just pretended to play while looking over your older brother's shoulder. Stop being incompetent: you don't need a loser unclassically sitting 24/7 in Hate to play the game for you. Git gud!

Ah ... that feels much better.

let the hate flow through you

this is the way

[booter]

You know, I feel like I'm not doing RnF justice.

You're all a bunch of easy mode crybabies who known nothing about Classic EQ. You've played too long here and gotten soft.

You probably never even played it, and just pretended to play while looking over your older brother's shoulder. Stop being incompetent: you don't need a loser unclassically sitting 24/7 in Hate to play the game for you. Git gud!

Ah ... that feels much better.

[loramin]

IRC: Conversation with Aradune 07/04/2000

Quote:
<Strago> Aradune you should also upgrade hate. The southwest corner is totally lame. People using NO tatics can just go in and pull away. Its not even worthy of having the name "Plane of Hate", it should be "Plane of get armor for free"
<Aradune> strago: yeah, it needs an upgrade. at first these zones are really hard, but then over time they get easier as people learn

Finally, someone actually responding to my points: thank you! Awesome quote: I learned something, and you have successfully weakened my argument.

https://i.gifer.com/UJr.gif

But, as I noted above when I responded to CD, I think the core argument remains unchanged. A few people knew about safe spots ... but they were still the vast, vast minority of the server ... and out of that small pool, no one was tracking Hate, because of my other points (eg. only a small percentage of that small percentage had a second account with a 45+ Ranger).


BTW, I should note that there's a much faster way to take down my argument than trying to nickle and dime the exact percentages in my points. Instead, just be awesome like danzig, and produce evidence of Hate tracking in classic :D

If danzig could produce that Aradune quote so easily, surely it'd be trivial to provide such evidence, especially if Hate tracking was as prevalent as some of you imagine.

[cd288]

There's also the alternative of actually providing tangible evidence to support your own claims instead of just sharing your own opinion and then demanding evidence from anyone who disagrees with you lol

[cd288]

But, as I noted above when I responded to CD, I think the core argument remains unchanged. A few people knew about safe spots ... but they were still the vast, vast minority of the server

The fact that someone complained about it to Aradune and that Aradune was aware of it fully indicates that it was a prevalent issue in the game that people knew safe spots and could easily sit there. But keep trying to demean it when someone proves you wrong lol.

[loramin]

But keep trying to demean it when someone proves you wrong lol.

I thanked him and posted a Minions animated gif ... and you took that as me demeaning him?

You are really, really bad at comprehending the words I post.

[cd288]

I thanked him and posted a Minions animated gif ... and you took that as me demeaning him?

You are really, really bad at comprehending the words I post.

Ironic that you talk about reading comprehension considering I never said demean him. I said demean IT (i.e., the evidence). You should really think before you post.

[loramin]

But I didn't demean his evidence either: I literally said it was "awesome"!

Finally, someone actually responding to my points: thank you! Awesome quote: I learned something, and you have successfully weakened my argument.

https://i.gifer.com/UJr.gif

I just don't get how you can read any "demeanment" ...

[Toxigen]

you two rdy to hug it out?

[cd288]

Awesome but doesn't prove anything...thanks for sharing bro! I'm still right!

[loramin]

I'll try to simplify things further.

My core argument (modulo a few zeroes) is just "1% of 1% of 1% is a small number". Even if someone changes a single "1%" to a "2%", the result is still .... a really small number.

[Trexller]

i feel like that number is too low

they knew approximately when mobs would respawn, so I have to assume that some ranger up in hate was like, "hey guys why don't i camp here so I can check what has spawned"

[loramin]

i feel like that number is too low

they knew approximately when mobs would respawn, so I have to assume that some ranger up in hate was like, "hey guys why don't i camp here so I can check what has spawned"

It does, if you think like a P99er. We've forgotten what classic was like here.

That hypothetical ranger can't even count on a 96% rez when he inevitably dies. If 51+ clerics even exist yet, his guild might not have one, let alone have one coming on the next Hate raid.

And who says his guild will even raid Hate before his corpse poofs? Even if they have a weekly raid, he'd have to get up there and get rezzed like the moment it starts (presumably he's doing this after last week's raid) , or else he loses every item on that character.

Remember, live GMs didn't summon rotted corpses to EC (or if they did, 99.9% of the server didn't know). People truly feared losing a corpse somewhere scary ... and Hate was about as scary as it got.

[Trexller]

im getting strong vibes of "uphill both ways in the snow and we wrapped our bare feet in barbed wire for traction"

there was a big difference between how the average player played EQ and how people like fires of heaven or legacy of steel played eq, these guys were raiding on conference calls with their guild, which included Verant Devs... so by the 10th wipe against innoruuk, some verant staff would have been like, "hey guys lets set up the raid over here at this spot"

your logic seems to hold true in like the classic era

but those old power guilds had plenty of clickers by velious

when i first started the game i made an iksar and wandered into emerald jungle around level 8 or something, a GM summoned my corpse to the field of bone

i remember this clearly bc when I died in EJ i punched my laptop and shattered the lcd

[cd288]

I'll try to simplify things further.

My core argument (modulo a few zeroes) is just "1% of 1% of 1% is a small number". Even if someone changes a single "1%" to a "2%", the result is still .... a really small number.

Put another way, your core argument is now essentially "I claimed something was true and provided zero evidence...there's only been one piece of evidence provided, which contradicts my claim. But I'm just going to claim that I'm basically still right because you couldn't find even more evidence to contradict me, while I also conveniently ignore that the only concrete evidence I have provided is my own opinion."

[zati]

My 2 cents on this shit even tho I can't even play this game much anymore. For P99 anyways

Ppl who want mage epic ASAP are peeps that get funneled into big raid guilds who don't know how to play most aspects of the game. Logs in "I want this I want that" Log out. Not being mean, but most times I see a mage epic it's either on an Alt who has 6+ level 60s and has helped hundreds of other ppl in the server in other ways and knows the game inside /out (aka DKP built up doesn't matter which guild). Or a long time standing dedicated mage who has been there since day 1 in their guild and it's been awarded to them because of friendship.

If a hate farmer can compete up in hate (Wtf is competition in pve anyway its just POOpsOCkING).. Whoever can waste their lives checking PoH 24/7 and batphone 2-3 other people and kill magi ... Let them. Assuming they follow rules and port and re-enter the zone, not train anyone, then it's legit.

Even more, there's actually 2 safe spots in hate that I found when I was in that zone alot cpl years ago with my friends, but we never used it. A lv 60ranger could pop in hit track n /exit out without even being near the stupid well but like Loramin says no one is dedicating a 60 ranger stay in hate during classic 99 era cuz they'd be busy raiding and progressing themselves as expo's were released.

OP- if you want mage epic so bad then just play the game with the community. it took me 3+ years to get mine playing consistently cause I had nothing better to do and plenty of time to burn. Never aimed for the thing either; don't waste 800k for it you'll summoned it once and log off lol.

I still have the Magi ToD/ group comp that got my magi and they were legit best of the best at the time playing at their peak n all had tons of game mechanic knowledge and I didn't know wtf i was doing back then

core guild Magi tod - 12/17/2018 11:55 pm
coeur - 60 cleric
ghuol - 60 monk (initial puller)
dallogreor 60 warrior
motec(wuntz) - 60 wizard ( Porter/Transloc bind's puller and tagger)
falamin - 60 enc
larryjohnson- 60 Cleric
taggley - 60 Sk (Tagger)

Not to mention it was contested by lavittz's crew at the time we all ported up at the same go. So to see people whine about magi now is kinda laughable. Before i stopped playing Id see magi and other mini's up for a good 5mins before anyone even considered goin for it. Sometimes people ignore the lesser mini's and it would stay up for DAYS. So to say that "I can't get my epic because of soandso" doesn't even apply now anymore lol also you need hate farmers to SPAWN them because they have placeholders most people can't wrap their heads around this part.

[cd288]

If a hate farmer can compete up in hate (Wtf is competition in pve anyway its just POOpsOCkING).. Whoever can waste their lives checking PoH 24/7 and batphone 2-3 other people and kill magi ... Let them

Yeah the other thing is like what's the alternative? Full guild rotation of Hate? Seems pointless.

No tracking from safe spot? There's plenty other ways around this to basically get the same result (i.e., being able to track) just with more annoyance.

[loramin]

Yeah the other thing is like what's the alternative? Full guild rotation of Hate? Seems pointless.

No tracking from safe spot? There's plenty other ways around this to basically get the same result (i.e., being able to track) just with more annoyance.

Yeah totally: why play classic EQ, when it was hard and annoying? The unclassic way is so much easier ... :rolleyes:

[Toxigen]

Not to mention it was contested by lavittz's crew at the time we all ported up at the same go. So to see people whine about magi now is kinda laughable. Before i stopped playing Id see magi and other mini's up for a good 5mins before anyone even considered goin for it. Sometimes people ignore the lesser mini's and it would stay up for DAYS. So to say that "I can't get my epic because of soandso" doesn't even apply now anymore lol also you need hate farmers to SPAWN them because they have placeholders most people can't wrap their heads around this part.

this is key

these young bucks dont even know how the big boy farm crews rolled

have fun getting fear golems (lol)

in comparison, getting magi is stupid easy today

[cd288]

Yeah totally: why play classic EQ, when it was hard and annoying? The unclassic way is so much easier ... :rolleyes:

Another day on the P99 forums, another Loramin "this is my memory so that means it's how it was and I don't need to provide evidence" argument

[Jimjam]

this is key

these young bucks dont even know how the big boy farm crews rolled

have fun getting fear golems (lol)

in comparison, getting magi is stupid easy today

Absolutely burned my balls when we were already in hate and we’d leave PHers or even minis up instead of turning them over because ‘they probably won’t drop anything worthwhile / too hard to pull’.

I really don’t understand how that attitude permeates so many guilds/crews.

Like why?!!

[Toxigen]

muh no farm crews

[Naethyn]

#bringbackpush