Eliminate MQ

[onmove_broke]

MQ seems to be a huge bane on this server. You cannot for example even get Jboots because the same people are camping it over and over and keeping the list for themselves (do not even get me started on this AC list camp in OOT) People logging off for days then claiming they were on the list and harassing you in /tells for the next 30 min.

Can you just eliminate MQ for all items? It really becomes people just selling the MQ instead of actually putting the work in for the quest. . Not sure how there would even be an argument against this. I do not think the original devs meant for people to MQ as a way to hoard a camp/item

[Trexller]

neckbeards dominating camps and being brats about it is confirmed classic

in a multiplayer PVE game, other players are part of the environment

[cd288]

how many accounts is OP going to complain about MQs on?

[Trexller]

OP could log onto Quarm and secrets will fire up some OOT instances

[magnetaress]

MQs shouldn't work because normie ppl didn't know about them for three years. There for are not normally classic.

Butt u will need to roll green into blue and launch green 2.0 to make disabling MQS meaningful

[spoil]

I got the AC camp, killed a few spawns and then said fuck it I have a 60 enchanter, I don't need to do this shit.

[Castle2.0]

No.

[cd288]

Can be faster to just farm the plat than the AC anyway

[Sonark]

MQs shouldn't work because normie ppl didn't know about them for three years. MQs stopped being usable in Luclin (or maybe right after or during Luclin)

Same way using illusion through doors stopped immediately after Luclin.

Luclin came out just 3 years shy of launch.

So did they go "oops, now the normies are onto us," and turn the whole thing off, just not retroactively?

MQs still work to this day (but only in Classic, Kunark and Velious, and only if you don't use the harbingers they put in the game to help with people also to this day killing old gods for old loot)

[Trexller]

it was after luclin, probably when they overhauled how all quests work and implemented the quest journal system

they always knew it could be done and a few players figured it out, so when they really wanted to be sure that 1 person was doing each step of the quest, they made the final turn in a combinable box

[enjchanter]

Wahhh I hate instances but plz let me camp stuff whenever I want

[Sonark]

it was after luclinYou sure it was AFTER Luclin?

I don't remember Luclin having MQable quests, though I also suppose I never quested or really played much during Luclin, outside of Netherbian Lair and soloing in Dawnshroud Peaks.

[Sonark]

Wahhh I hate instances but plz let me camp stuff whenever I want
Blue desperately needs Instanced raids.

Let everyone just have the pixels for god sake.

/pick for zones is also one of the best additions Live ever did for quality of life.

[Trexller]

You sure it was AFTER Luclin?

I don't remember Luclin having MQable quests, though I also suppose I never quested or really played much during Luclin, outside of Netherbian Lair and soloing in Dawnshroud Peaks.

yeah 90% sure

luclin just had like, no good quests lol and anything that was good was a container combine, earring of the solstice, Vex thal key, beastlord epic

i think the quest journal system was like LDON era shortly after luclin

[Sonark]

yeah 90% sure90% sure is only Classic if you're a DEV, CHUM

[cd288]

Blue desperately needs Instanced raids.

Let everyone just have the pixels for god sake.

/pick for zones is also one of the best additions Live ever did for quality of life.

Instanced raiding in classic EQ is insanely boring. For one, I love the quake meta everyone strategizing and racing to hit targets. Even if I'm not in the top raiding guild and we don't get the vast majority of targets I'd still hate having instances.

[Ennewi]

MQ seems to be a huge bane on this server. You cannot for example even get Jboots because the same people are camping it over and over and keeping the list for themselves (do not even get me started on this AC list camp in OOT) People logging off for days then claiming they were on the list and harassing you in /tells for the next 30 min.

Can you just eliminate MQ for all items? It really becomes people just selling the MQ instead of actually putting the work in for the quest. . Not sure how there would even be an argument against this. I do not think the original devs meant for people to MQ as a way to hoard a camp/item

The underlying issue is that most everyone knows where X will spawn and at approx what time. MQs being so prevalent is a symptom of that, but it isn't the problem imo. If something is overcamped, there are other camps, some even more lucrative.

And there are other situations where MQing doesn't even involve making plat, but instead highlights elf sim interdependence. For example, it feels really good to be able to help someone finish their epic because you happened to keep a rare nodrop in your bank for months, if not years. And then to have someone return the favor for another quest.

Quite a few features of the original game were not there by intentional design but existed due to inexperience and happenstance. IMO these are some of the best aspects of the game that make it feel more like a world. The devs were trying to play god and failed. Those failures didn't need to be corrected after the fact though. It was wrong to go back and "fix" them.

[Ennewi]

Instanced raiding in classic EQ is insanely boring. For one, I love the quake meta everyone strategizing and racing to hit targets. Even if I'm not in the top raiding guild and we don't get the vast majority of targets I'd still hate having instances.

100%. Each quake is memorable at least to some extent for this reason. Your guild almost gets X target, but the FTE was dropped due to bad pathing or a train that couldn't be pinned on a single player. But, if that hadn't happened, maybe your guild wouldn't have had the opportunity to kill another target that for once actually dropped its best items. Meanwhile, two other guilds continued to fight over the first target and it ended up having mediocre loot.

With instances, every guild can live in their own bubble and none of the above takes place.

[cd288]

100%. Each quake is memorable at least to some extent for this reason. Your guild almost gets X target, but the FTE was dropped due to bad pathing or a train that couldn't be pinned on a single player. But, if that hadn't happened, maybe your guild wouldn't have had the opportunity to kill another target that for once actually dropped its best items. Meanwhile, two other guilds continued to fight over the first target and it ended up having mediocre loot.

With instances, every guild can live in their own bubble and none of the above takes place.

Yup, it creates interesting strategic decisions/results. Plus we have a good balance with monthly draft week where targets can be drafted and killed in a more casual manner.

[astuce999]

Disabling MQ'ing would only make the "loot rights" market boom. MQ isn't the problem, it's human greed. And there's no patch for that.

Astuce

[Toxigen]

Disabling MQ'ing would only make the "loot rights" market boom. MQ isn't the problem, it's human greed. And there's no patch for that.

Astuce

pras

pixel sickness is a terrible affliction

[Jimjam]

Teal solved it by patching out the humans

[Sonark]

Disabling MQ'ing would only make the "loot rights" market boom. MQ isn't the problem, it's human greed. And there's no patch for that.

Astuce

And everyone thinks they're Gordon Gecko (and weirdly, just like in Scarface, nobody ever seems to remember THE END OF THE MOVIE)

Though movies have more morality than real life tbh

[Pulgasari]

yeah 90% sure

luclin just had like, no good quests lol and anything that was good was a container combine, earring of the solstice, Vex thal key, beastlord epic

i think the quest journal system was like LDON era shortly after luclin

Loyalist Shield

Also Shield of Bane Warding and to a lesser extent, Ashbringer (lol WoW).

Not to mention LoEE.

[Pulgasari]

wtb Sorrowsong Boots!

[TexRob]

MQs shouldn't work because normie ppl didn't know about them for three years. There for are not normally classic.

Butt u will need to roll green into blue and launch green 2.0 to make disabling MQS meaningful

Imagine still thinking you're cool and elite because you knew how to do something first in a 25 year old game! Winning my dude.

[cd288]

Disabling MQ'ing would only make the "loot rights" market boom. MQ isn't the problem, it's human greed. And there's no patch for that.

Astuce

This is probably true. The same overall impact would occur it would just be more work since you have to be there to actually loot the thing.

[magnetaress]

they dont kill the bots on the fourms why u thunik they gunna kill them in gaems

[Rimitto]

OP could log onto Quarm and secrets will fire up some OOT instances

trexller is a robot.

[Trexller]

trexller is a robot.

ill solve any captcha, you have yet to touch the one i provided for you

this is how i know you're a bot, you just randomly bring up things mentioned in other threads without applicable context

you've never posted an original thought, because your kind is incapable of it

the AI drone wars are gonna start out super hot, but then go cold real fast when every system has adapted to every other system

you can't innovate, frakkin' toaster

[Zuranthium]

neckbeards dominating camps is confirmed classic

No it isn't. During the first year of the game, everything was decided by damage racing and social interaction (it was also allowed to create trains), making it impossible for any single person to ever hold a camp all the time if other people wanted to challenge them.

After the first year of the game, the play-nice-policy dictated that people must TAKE TURNS at camps. Nobody owned any camp.

Disabling MQ'ing would only make the "loot rights" market boom. MQ isn't the problem, it's human greed. And there's no patch for that.

The problem (aside from the game itself) is p99 does not follow the classic play-nice-policy. If it did, then anyone could show up at a camp and be in the rotation. Neckbeards would be less rewarded for trying to go camp the OOT Jboots all the time, they'd make more money farming somewhere else in the game where there isn't a rotation going. Thus, it would be mainly just the people who actually need Jboots that would do the OOT camp, since it's worth their time to wait in a rotation.

Regarding MQ'ing, loot rights isn't as valuable for trying to monopolize a camp. There isn't always someone available to buy the loot rights. MQ is completely lame in terms of the ideal of what questing should be, but I do somewhat support it, because the game should not have so many ridiculous timesinks; MQ potentially allows people to reduce those timesinks.

[Rimitto]

No it isn't. During the first year of the game, everything was decided by damage racing and social interaction (it was also allowed to create trains), making it impossible for any single person to ever hold a camp all the time if other people wanted to challenge them.

After the first year of the game, the play-nice-policy dictated that people must TAKE TURNS at camps. Nobody owned any camp.



The problem (aside from the game itself) is p99 does not follow the classic play-nice-policy. If it did, then anyone could show up at a camp and be in the rotation. Neckbeards would be less rewarded for trying to go camp the OOT Jboots all the time, they'd make more money farming somewhere else in the game where there isn't a rotation going. Thus, it would be mainly just the people who actually need Jboots that would do the OOT camp, since it's worth their time to wait in a rotation.

Regarding MQ'ing, loot rights isn't as valuable for trying to monopolize a camp. There isn't always someone available to buy the loot rights. MQ is completely lame in terms of the ideal of what questing should be, but I do somewhat support it, because the game should not have so many ridiculous timesinks; MQ potentially allows people to reduce those timesinks.


I personally align more with the OP's views on the issue, but can sympathize with the other problems too.

MQ isn't classic. The fact that they can be farmed for easy cash just makes it even less classic and people that are greedy will take advantage of it because they can. It's a human problem.

The second part about loot rights is the same problem. It eliminates the need to form a party to get a rare piece of equipment for a single player and pimps it out to the nearest beardneck that has time to kill.

I'd make the argument that although it makes the game easier, this game is not meant to be "easy". I'd also wager to argue that if MQ wasn't available, we would see far more heated arguments, but also much less arguments.

It's a human problem, so fixing it will never be perfect, because all humans are born with err.

EDIT: wanted to give my 2 cents on AC Camp as well.
I've seen the early days of that camp and the later days of that camp.
It's like night and day. During the early days, players would band together and help those that had trouble(clerics) killing AC. It was often a party-effort and was pretty fun.
These days, AC is often camped by 2-3 individuals and all of their ALTS that are standing by ready to loot the ring. Hirem specifically told me in private messages that this is how he gets all his funds. Kills AC, brings in alts, stocks up on rings on corpses, whatever he needs to do.
It's the mindset that's the problem. Saw quite a few people myself camping AC that were trying to get it their first time and tried to re-inspire that group-effort, but then comes in another Hirem type who doesn't want to talk, doesn't want help, doesn't want to do anything but have everyone else leave so they can "own" the camp forever.
It's a people problem. The problem are the People who are skirting the PnP in order to accentuate their greed.

[cd288]

MQ is classic. Go on allakhazam and you can find plenty of posts on quests talking about or requesting MQs from the classic era.

Also, as an aside and a response to the other comment, the first EQ rules were put in place less than a year after launch.

[fortior]

All of this is caused by p99 being stuck in velious, in real life people didn’t have the time to sit around maxing in era loot before the next expansion hit

[cd288]

All of this is caused by p99 being stuck in velious, in real life people didn’t have the time to sit around maxing in era loot before the next expansion hit

Fair. There was invevitably a subset of players behind the curve who would get their shot at that loot when the next expansion came out and the upper tier moved on

[Zuranthium]

All of this is caused by p99 being stuck in velious, in real life people didn’t have the time to sit around maxing in era loot before the next expansion hit

Constant expansions is not the answer, it destroys the game world. The problem continues to exist regardless of era anyway, the "important NPC's" to permacamp just shifts.

[loramin]

MQ is classic. Go on allakhazam and you can find plenty of posts on quests talking about or requesting MQs from the classic era.

Also, as an aside and a response to the other comment, the first EQ rules were put in place less than a year after launch.

There are obviously multiple definitions of classic. Was MQing done at all in classic? 100%!

But did most players even know MQing was a thing in classic? Absolutely not! Look, I don't think the majority even read sites like Allakhazam: I think most saw them as the equivalent of reading the cheat guide (remember the entire idea of a MMOG was completely new; most weren't MUD players).

Like so many things here, it just boils down to re-creating classic mechanics vs. trying to actually recreate the game from '99-'01, and the P99 folks have all but given up on the latter.

[cd288]

There are obviously multiple definitions of classic. Was MQing done at all in classic? 100%!

But did most players even know MQing was a thing in classic? Absolutely not! Look, I don't think the majority even read sites like Allakhazam: I think most saw them as the equivalent of reading the cheat guide (remember the entire idea of a MMOG was completely new; most weren't MUD players).

Like so many things here, it just boils down to re-creating classic mechanics vs. trying to actually recreate the game from '99-'01, and the P99 folks have all but given up on the latter.

Again, your opinion doesn't matter unless you can back it up with evidence. The only evidence we have is that people were clearly MQing in the classic era. As a result, MQs remain unchanged. If you believe it's so completely obvious that the vast majority of people didn't know how to MQ then surely there should be evidence out there to back it up.

Also, LOL you don't think most people knew and read Allakhazam and sites like that once they came out? Now I can't take any of your arguments seriously because this is just so incorrect haha...no one viewed those sites as "cheating"

[Zuranthium]

MQing was not known by most people during classic. There absolutely is evidence to back it up too, like all of the forum posts and quest/item writeups that existed. Not to mention those of us who played back then and have said it wasn't known.

Regarding EQ websites, people of course knew about the major ones, but most people weren't able to be on the internet at work, and then when they came home from work to play the game, they couldn't be on EQ and a website at the same time. EQ took up the entire screen back then and there was no way to switch to the desktop (not to mention the extra lag even if you could do both at the same time). People were mainly only visiting EQ websites when the game was down.

[loramin]

Regarding EQ websites, people of course knew about the major ones, but most people weren't able to be on the internet at work, and then when they came home from work to play the game, they couldn't be on EQ and a website at the same time. EQ took up the entire screen back then and there was no way to switch to the desktop (not to mention the extra lag even if you could do both at the same time). People were mainly only visiting EQ websites when the game was down.

There's such a clear difference between the people who actually remember classic vs. those who don't.

[cd288]

MQing was not known by most people during classic. There absolutely is evidence to back it up too, like all of the forum posts and quest/item writeups that existed. Not to mention those of us who played back then and have said it wasn't known.

Regarding EQ websites, people of course knew about the major ones, but most people weren't able to be on the internet at work, and then when they came home from work to play the game, they couldn't be on EQ and a website at the same time. EQ took up the entire screen back then and there was no way to switch to the desktop (not to mention the extra lag even if you could do both at the same time). People were mainly only visiting EQ websites when the game was down.

Guess your server experience was different. On both my play and CSR server people were MQing in early 2000 for instance. Not really sure why quest writeups mean MQs weren't happening, as I said before there are plenty of quest pages on Allakhazam where you can go into the comments and see people saying things like "just MQ this part" or something like that.

Again, the part about classic that people seem to forget is that your experience was largely dictated by the other people on your server.

[Jimjam]

You learn about MQing the first time you hand in bone chips and the person before you dumped their spares…

[cd288]

You learn about MQing the first time you hand in bone chips and the person before you dumped their spares…

Lol too true

[Rimitto]

You know what's classic.... being able to drop money and being able to put bags inside of other bags.
p99 doesn't offer either of these features.

I'm prosing that the issue of MQ isn't solely about being classic, because clearly there's not THAT much care about being 1:1 classic.

[Jimjam]

I don’t remember empty bags inside bags. Not saying it couldn’t happen.

The most classic thing I miss is being able to give uncharmed npcs items. People would bling up the priests of discord in newbie cities!

[cd288]

I don’t remember empty bags inside bags. Not saying it couldn’t happen.

The most classic thing I miss is being able to give uncharmed npcs items. People would bling up the priests of discord in newbie cities!

you don't remember it because Rimitto is someone's AI chat bot they are testing

[Zuranthium]

I said before there are plenty of quest pages on Allakhazam where you can go into the comments and see people saying things like "just MQ this part" or something like that.

There are more pages that show people didn't know about it. Even among top guilds it clearly wasn't known about to the extent it is now, otherwise more epics would have been getting completed. Show links from before 2001, btw.

[cd288]

So your argument is that because there are pages where an MQ wasn't mentioned it means people didn't know about MQs...despite the fact that there are pages where MQ was mentioned? Lol.

Also, re: epics if we're talking purely about the classic era, then the amount of time epics were out and the quests were solved was extremely limited. IIRC they came out mid-September 2000. There were months spent just trying to figure out where things dropped, off of what, etc. So you're really looking at a few months of classic where epic quest knowledge was more solid. Second, MQs for epics specifically would've been less frequent as most people in the guilds doing the encounters needed the drops still. This is demonstrated by the fact that you don't see as many comments about MQing epics until post-classic era but you do see discussions about MQ generally during the classic era.

[Zuranthium]

So your argument is that because there are pages where an MQ wasn't mentioned it means people didn't know about MQs

That's not what was said. If you were actually reading EQ forums during classic era, it's apparent most people didn't know about MQing, definitely not to the same degree as now. Even when some people knew about MQ in certain instances, they were scared of doing a quest wrong and losing their items. It wasn't known that MQ always works for every quest. Also, if MQing really was well known during classic, all kinds of no-drop MQ items would have been getting constantly advertised and sold. That was not the case.

Interested to see these links you keep talking about.

[Jimjam]

What I remember from classic eq sites was endless asking of questions "is this MQable?"

[Rimitto]

I don’t remember empty bags inside bags. Not saying it couldn’t happen.

The most classic thing I miss is being able to give uncharmed npcs items. People would bling up the priests of discord in newbie cities!

bags inside of other bags was 100% a classic era thing. I specifically remember trying to figure out the whole "size" issue because I kept putting smaller bags inside of bigger bags and filling those smaller bags. The encumbrance of walking back from blackburrow was the real struggle.
It wasn't just "empty bags" though, you could put items in other bags that were inside bags. It was bag-ception.
P99 is vastly different that you can't put containers in other containers.
I assume because it probably caused some sort of glitch or problem that they didn't have a solution to.

With how long it took them to fix boats and their workarounds to fix boats I can't blame them. The minor illusion spell also seems like a quick-fix on p99. Actually, MOST of the illusion spells seem to be a bit of a quick-fix. They probably don't have some type of server files or something and can't replicate them.
Minor and Tree are most noticable.

Just a heads up about the bag-ception thing... looking back, it didn't really offer all that much benefit. :rolleyes:
At least, it didn't when I was a newbie, since it took so long to get back to town to sell stuff. It granted more inventory slots, sure, but at the same time, it really weighed your character down HARD.


you don't remember it because Rimitto is someone's AI chat bot they are testing

is this the second account you're gonna get banned on for harassing people trexller? :rolleyes:

[Zuranthium]

What I remember from classic eq sites was endless asking of questions "is this MQable?"

Disagree, but that would be proof of how people didn't know what quests could be MQ'ed. The game code was not understood like it is now and it's something that would have been fixed if it was widely known during the early years when the devs cared about the RPG side of the game.

[Rimitto]

That's not what was said. If you were actually reading EQ forums during classic era, it's apparent most people didn't know about MQing, definitely not to the same degree as now. Even when some people knew about MQ in certain instances, they were scared of doing a quest wrong and losing their items. It wasn't known that MQ always works for every quest. Also, if MQing really was well known during classic, all kinds of no-drop MQ items would have been getting constantly advertised and sold. That was not the case.

Interested to see these links you keep talking about.

trexller and his secondary account don't have any actual information, they just mock information with inflammatory remarks. :rolleyes:

You are 100% correct though, the concept of MQ is not classic. Even if it existed, there simply were not the tools for the average person to know about it.
Even the forums at the time were for the "hardcore" players.
the forums were THE ONLY place where players met up outside the game. Discord, Twitter, Youtube, these didn't exist back then.
people basically met up to talk either inside Everquest or on the Forums.

It wasn't till the WoW era and teamspeak that people even started to do group-talk.

There simply was no method of conversation available for anyone to know that MQ was in the game or not.


To even further prove a point on this one.. most people didn't know of the popular quests we know of now. In that way, anyone claiming that you would "know what MQ is on your first bone turnin" assumes automatically that people knew there even was a bone turnin quest. There's an insurmountable difference between people doing turnin quests today, vs even knowing about them in 99. 1% maybe at best knew back then. I'm also assuming that the "extra messages" probably didn't exist in actual servers. This means that 1% of 1% probably knew of the various quests.

going even further than that, I'm sure that probably only 1% of 1% of the 1% probably even figured out that MQ was a thing.
We're talking maybe double digits at tops at this point. It would be a literal handful of people at best, if ANYONE knew about MQ back then.

compare that to now where hundreds to thousands are demanding it.. completely different society, completely different gameplay.

[Zuranthium]

Yep yep yep. People were largely unaware of what quests even existed, much less how to cheat their completion or if MQing would work.

[loramin]

trexller and his secondary account don't have any actual information, they just mock information with inflammatory remarks. :rolleyes:

You are 100% correct though, the concept of MQ is not classic. Even if it existed, there simply were not the tools for the average person to know about it.
Even the forums at the time were for the "hardcore" players.
the forums were THE ONLY place where players met up outside the game. Discord, Twitter, Youtube, these didn't exist back then.
people basically met up to talk either inside Everquest or on the Forums.

It wasn't till the WoW era and teamspeak that people even started to do group-talk.

There simply was no method of conversation available for anyone to know that MQ was in the game or not.


To even further prove a point on this one.. most people didn't know of the popular quests we know of now. In that way, anyone claiming that you would "know what MQ is on your first bone turnin" assumes automatically that people knew there even was a bone turnin quest. There's an insurmountable difference between people doing turnin quests today, vs even knowing about them in 99. 1% maybe at best knew back then. I'm also assuming that the "extra messages" probably didn't exist in actual servers. This means that 1% of 1% probably knew of the various quests.

going even further than that, I'm sure that probably only 1% of 1% of the 1% probably even figured out that MQ was a thing.
We're talking maybe double digits at tops at this point. It would be a literal handful of people at best, if ANYONE knew about MQ back then.

compare that to now where hundreds to thousands are demanding it.. completely different society, completely different gameplay.

The bot has been temporarily taken over by an actual human ... and (again, unlike CD288) they too clearly played in classic!

[Sonark]

Even if it existed, there simply were not the tools for the average person to know about it.Wtf do you mean "the tools to know about it" ?

The "tools to know about it" are:
Hey you. Fuckface. This is how you MQ shit.

That's it. That's all the tools.

And MQs still work up to Luclin, but Luclin got around them by creative means, and it wasn't until PoP when they actually patched them out.

To this day on Live, you can still MQ everything in Classic that you always could MQ, because someone CRACKED THE DA VINCI CODE, and said:
Hey. Fuckface. This is how you MQ shit.

I do agree that, even to this day, the whole mystique of the concept scares and confuses people. A buddy of mine on Live was doing one of the sub-quests for Mage epic and thought he had completely bungled it by handing in a wrong piece, and one of the right pieces for the quest, and I was just like "nah man, you have until basically a server reset or someone else has the hand-in pieces to fix this" and didn't have to re-do everything like he thought he did.

[Trollhide]

bags inside of other bags was 100% a classic era thing. I specifically remember trying to figure out the whole "size" issue because I kept putting smaller bags inside of bigger bags and filling those smaller bags. The encumbrance of walking back from blackburrow was the real struggle.
It wasn't just "empty bags" though, you could put items in other bags that were inside bags. It was bag-ception.

This is absolutely incorrect, you could not put a container inside another container in classic EQ. It wasn't until much later that this was added, and only allowed empty containers. "Bagception" sounds like a fever dream you had.

[Troxx]

I don’t remember empty bags inside bags. Not saying it couldn’t happen.

There was a hack using MQ2 that let you put bags inside bags. If you put nodrop items inside a bag, then that bag in another bag you could trade that bag with others … bypassing the nodrop mechanic.

I forget precisely when they managed to fix that loophole hack

[Pootle]

This is absolutely incorrect, you could not put a container inside another container in classic EQ. It wasn't until much later that this was added, and only allowed empty containers. "Bagception" sounds like a fever dream you had.

Absolutely agree with this!

As an avid tradeskiller in classic EQ, I still (all these years later) remember the pain of having to juggle components, items and bags in order to do my tradeskilling.

[cd288]

There was a hack using MQ2 that let you put bags inside bags. If you put nodrop items inside a bag, then that bag in another bag you could trade that bag with others … bypassing the nodrop mechanic.

I forget precisely when they managed to fix that loophole hack

The best part about this is Rimitto accidentally admitting to hacking in classic EQ lol

[Penish]

literally everyone who actually 'plays' uses SEQ

omg did you not know?

[Solist]

bags inside of other bags was 100% a classic era thing. I specifically remember trying to figure out the whole "size" issue because I kept putting smaller bags inside of bigger bags and filling those smaller bags. The encumbrance of walking back from blackburrow was the real struggle.
It wasn't just "empty bags" though, you could put items in other bags that were inside bags. It was bag-ception.
P99 is vastly different that you can't put containers in other containers.
I assume because it probably caused some sort of glitch or problem that they didn't have a solution to.

With how long it took them to fix boats and their workarounds to fix boats I can't blame them. The minor illusion spell also seems like a quick-fix on p99. Actually, MOST of the illusion spells seem to be a bit of a quick-fix. They probably don't have some type of server files or something and can't replicate them.
Minor and Tree are most noticable.

Just a heads up about the bag-ception thing... looking back, it didn't really offer all that much benefit. :rolleyes:
At least, it didn't when I was a newbie, since it took so long to get back to town to sell stuff. It granted more inventory slots, sure, but at the same time, it really weighed your character down HARD.




is this the second account you're gonna get banned on for harassing people trexller? :rolleyes:


Bags inside other bags was a LDON era patch.

It exists on P99 due to latency issues. I can buy bags fast enough to fill a bag with bags at 500ms latency, as the client inherently can. In classic/velious ui/pop ui the client could not put a bag within a bag.

[Solist]

Wtf do you mean "the tools to know about it" ?

The "tools to know about it" are:
Hey you. Fuckface. This is how you MQ shit.

That's it. That's all the tools.

And MQs still work up to Luclin, but Luclin got around them by creative means, and it wasn't until PoP when they actually patched them out.

To this day on Live, you can still MQ everything in Classic that you always could MQ, because someone CRACKED THE DA VINCI CODE, and said:
Hey. Fuckface. This is how you MQ shit.

I do agree that, even to this day, the whole mystique of the concept scares and confuses people. A buddy of mine on Live was doing one of the sub-quests for Mage epic and thought he had completely bungled it by handing in a wrong piece, and one of the right pieces for the quest, and I was just like "nah man, you have until basically a server reset or someone else has the hand-in pieces to fix this" and didn't have to re-do everything like he thought he did.

Yep absolutely.

We MQ'd stuff all the time back then. Jboots most obviously (in early kunark era for sure, I can't recall doing so before then as I only played for a few weeks pre kunark). I absolutely mq'd my chardok ring from rogue to monk in the early luclin timeframe. We did a lot of armour mq's in velious.

As far as classic, genuine classic I can't be sure but beyond that it was fairly common and well known.

[PatChapp]

Yeah I bought a boot mq shortly after kunark launched

[Rimitto]

This is absolutely incorrect, you could not put a container inside another container in classic EQ. It wasn't until much later that this was added, and only allowed empty containers. "Bagception" sounds like a fever dream you had.

you say much later, but my memories have time-dates on them and they are pre-2003.
That means, specifically, that bags in other bags were a mechanic you did not know about and apparently they became an issue that was "patched" later in the post 2003 era. So much for your "everyone knows everything" angle of omniscience. :rolleyes:

This was 100% early velious/late kunark era when this was going on.
I can state this so confidently because by 02 and 03 I was hanging out with other people and wasn't playing everquest anymore.
It could've been luclin era, but with ultimate certainy, it was way before LDON.

The best part about this is Rimitto accidentally admitting to hacking in classic EQ lol

Ah to be a fevered zoomedboomer and looking for any grasp you can to hook into your target like a leech. Unfortunately for you, hacks didn't exist back then, or if they did, I was not aware of em. I bet you learned all of your sources off google who told you the internet was invented in 1917. :rolleyes:

You're like a woman preaching the end of the world. :rolleyes:

[Rimitto]

Wtf do you mean "the tools to know about it" ?

The "tools to know about it" are:
Hey you. Fuckface. This is how you MQ shit.

That's it. That's all the tools.

And MQs still work up to Luclin, but Luclin got around them by creative means, and it wasn't until PoP when they actually patched them out.

To this day on Live, you can still MQ everything in Classic that you always could MQ, because someone CRACKED THE DA VINCI CODE, and said:
Hey. Fuckface. This is how you MQ shit.

I do agree that, even to this day, the whole mystique of the concept scares and confuses people. A buddy of mine on Live was doing one of the sub-quests for Mage epic and thought he had completely bungled it by handing in a wrong piece, and one of the right pieces for the quest, and I was just like "nah man, you have until basically a server reset or someone else has the hand-in pieces to fix this" and didn't have to re-do everything like he thought he did.

It's amazing that you think the boomers and gen x were as forgiving and generous as the millennial generation running games now. ;)

Half the time they wouldn't even talk to people that didn't pose with L's on their foreheads. There was extreme class warfare back in the 90's where if you weren't part of the "in" crowd, you simply didn't have access to the information. Real Big Hording.

I like that you've ousted which side of the hording you were on with your statement that "everyone knew" though. Makes it real fukin simple to see how the rest of this pans out. :rolleyes:


Same Shit, Different Era, Eliminate MQ

[Zuranthium]

To this day on Live, you can still MQ everything in Classic that you always could MQ

No you can't, they changed it for specific quests.

[cd288]

you say much later, but my memories have time-dates on them and they are pre-2003.
That means, specifically, that bags in other bags were a mechanic you did not know about and apparently they became an issue that was "patched" later in the post 2003 era. So much for your "everyone knows everything" angle of omniscience. :rolleyes:

This was 100% early velious/late kunark era when this was going on.
I can state this so confidently because by 02 and 03 I was hanging out with other people and wasn't playing everquest anymore.
It could've been luclin era, but with ultimate certainy, it was way before LDON.



Ah to be a fevered zoomedboomer and looking for any grasp you can to hook into your target like a leech. Unfortunately for you, hacks didn't exist back then, or if they did, I was not aware of em. I bet you learned all of your sources off google who told you the internet was invented in 1917. :rolleyes:

You're like a woman preaching the end of the world. :rolleyes:

Lol love how this guy acts like everyone should just take his "memories" as facts. That's not the way it works bud.

As far as your other response, hacks did exist back then. And as another commenter noted, the only way you could have been putting bags within bags in the classic era was to use a certain hack to do it. So if you were doing this in the classic era, it means you were hacking.

[Rimitto]

Lol love how this guy acts like everyone should just take his "memories" as facts. That's not the way it works bud.

As far as your other response, hacks did exist back then. And as another commenter noted, the only way you could have been putting bags within bags in the classic era was to use a certain hack to do it. So if you were doing this in the classic era, it means you were hacking.
You're right, your memories being incorrect is not how it works. :eek:

You being a bot however, is a guaranteed fact. Why can I say that so confidently? well you've done absolutely nothing but start arguments and enflame arguments this entire time, like a certain other 3 letter mega-industry that we're most familiar with.

You've offered no resources yourself other than to counter-point and simply say, in whatever the argument, that the other person is wrong and then offer their inverse argument as your argument. This is a logical fallacy even in medieval times. A certain Rene Descartes points this out in one of his most infamous statements "if I am to choose and choose wrong then I am wrong, if I by chance happen to choose correctly, then I am also wrong." or something to that extent.
Simply put, it means that no logical action was taken on your part.

Whether you believe me or not, it doesn't matter, since the fact that I was putting bags in other bags, and as far as I'm aware, there were no hacks back then, let alone any specific hacks that would do this one specific action in one specific game at one specific time in history that you seem to be so confidently aware of and the complete expert on. Kinda weird if you ask me. Simply put, you overplayed your hand bot-boy :cool:

The only true memories I have from EQ back in the day are of erudin, qeynos, and blackburrow, since I never made it that far into the game. Of all the things I encountered, I remember plat being dropped, encumberance weighing me the hell down, having multiple bags in other bags(and subsequently emptying them when I realized they added extra weight), being able to do gold drops, and buying a spell for some guy in the mage guild in qeynos.... and of course all the trains in Blackburrow.


I noticed someone else mentioned that someone said there was a lag glitch with the bags. Perhaps I was experiencing that then, because back then, a lot of the country, including my area, did not have the best internet. Don't remember if we got cable or were still on aol back then.
26ms was a pipedream.

I'm betting you probably have never experienced the aol days though, huh bot-boy? :rolleyes:

[Duik]

A bot telling us how to human.
Platinum plated Golden Silver a PlatGolVer if you will. Have it for ShanksGiving.
Also, as Troxxigen has said the bot owner has taken over (at least partially) the Rimitto persona. My guessbis you are pissed your ruse was discovered so quick. Now you are attacking poor people cuz you are butthurt.

Bring back the bot. Or not. I dont care what it learns or if it learns.

[cd288]

Yeah he's been taking it over here and there but that last post was definitely bot-written lol

[Rimitto]

Yeah he's been taking it over here and there but that last post was definitely bot-written lol

Let's see if I can break botboy288

int x;
DeathLoop:
x++;
goto DeathLoop;

... quite literally spam...

Stupid
Pointless
Annoying
Messages

:rolleyes:

If you chant enough, you can believe you're a woman too. :rolleyes:

honestly, personally speaking, not speaking down to you both like I have been, but personally speaking, I think it's pretty sad that opinions, whether AI or real, such as yours, exist, since they lack any conscience. To put it more bluntly. If your life ended tomorrow, the world would keep turning as if nothing happened. You've contributed nothing to those around you and have done nothing but added troubles to everything around yourself. :rolleyes:

That is you.

No matter what I say or do, you will never change from that.
That's why I view it as sad.

The topic is eliminating MQ's. I suggest refocusing, if you're capable.

[loramin]

Seriously Rimitto, why do you have to be so selfish and inconsiderate, that you feel the need to disrupt everyone else's conversations in this forum just to test your chatbot?

Can't you just go annoy 4chan, or some other forum that actually deserves your harassment?

[enjchanter]

100%. Each quake is memorable at least to some extent for this reason. Your guild almost gets X target, but the FTE was dropped due to bad pathing or a train that couldn't be pinned on a single player. But, if that hadn't happened, maybe your guild wouldn't have had the opportunity to kill another target that for once actually dropped its best items. Meanwhile, two other guilds continued to fight over the first target and it ended up having mediocre loot.

With instances, every guild can live in their own bubble and none of the above takes place.

Good

[Rimitto]

I posted a reply to your initial harassing post against me loramin. You may now go act angsty for being both off topic, and incorrect, and taking that angst from one forum threat to another because of a person you simply don't like, which is the definition of harassment. :rolleyes:

[loramin]

If you can fill up these forums with your bot posting about World of Warcraft (and other off topic nonsense), and not get banned, I don't think I have to worry about being moderated for calling out your disrespectful behavior.

[Rimitto]

If you can fill up these forums with your bot posting about World of Warcraft (and other off topic nonsense), and not get banned, I don't think I have to worry about being moderated for calling out your disrespectful behavior.
Harassing someone is very much against the forum rules lora.
It's the reason trexller isn't around anymore.

[cd288]

If you can fill up these forums with your bot posting about World of Warcraft (and other off topic nonsense), and not get banned, I don't think I have to worry about being moderated for calling out your disrespectful behavior.

Calling out disrespectful behavior also isn't against the rules so you haven't done anything wrong

[Swish]

ElfCourtLive would make a good Twitch channel based on these disputes.

[Swish]

REAL petitions
REAL players

Have Menden sort it all out in REAL time.

[cd288]

REAL petitions
REAL players

Have Menden sort it all out in REAL time.

That would be pretty funny honestly

[Swish]

Just a green screen and some EQ inspired art and you got yourself a courtroom.

[WarpathEQ]

Loser gets deathtouched

[Ciderpress]

Eliminate the supreme court (when they make decisions I don't like)

[Duik]

Quote by rimitto...
If you chant enough, you can believe you're a woman too.

That right there is brilliantly spoken, if someone were clueless or butt hurt cuz nobody wants to play wiff ya bot.
Very few here get boners over bots.

[Duik]

Also. Waa.

[Rimitto]

REAL petitions
REAL players

Have Menden sort it all out in REAL time.

the big problem with that is that only 1 person would show up. :rolleyes:
*cough**ai**cough*

[Knuckle]

MQ seems to be a huge bane on this server. You cannot for example even get Jboots because the same people are camping it over and over and keeping the list for themselves (do not even get me started on this AC list camp in OOT) People logging off for days then claiming they were on the list and harassing you in /tells for the next 30 min.

Can you just eliminate MQ for all items? It really becomes people just selling the MQ instead of actually putting the work in for the quest. . Not sure how there would even be an argument against this. I do not think the original devs meant for people to MQ as a way to hoard a camp/item

Nah most people just dont want to actually wait their turn and expect someone to inform them when its their turn while their halfway across the world with their thumb up their ass. Then, they expect you to hold their spawn for them while they spend 45min getting back to AC island.

Also WTS Jboots MQ

[Vyyn2]

With Snackpack out there camping the AC so much and driving the price down I can't see how the camp is even going to be relevant. Not worth camping out there for a 3% spawn rate, only to camp a rapier which has an 11% spawn rate (allegedly) then go pop Hasten at a 15% spawn rate, while hoping that Bro Z doesn't spawn. Then fronting the gold when you're selling the whole thing for 4500p.

absolutely not worth the effort anymore.

[Estrang87]

With Snackpack out there camping the AC so much and driving the price down I can't see how the camp is even going to be relevant. Not worth camping out there for a 3% spawn rate, only to camp a rapier which has an 11% spawn rate (allegedly) then go pop Hasten at a 15% spawn rate, while hoping that Bro Z doesn't spawn. Then fronting the gold when you're selling the whole thing for 4500p.

absolutely not worth the effort anymore.

Its worth the squeeze if you want an easy afk camp where you get 8 chances per hour(roughly estimating kill time on 6min pops.
While i was working remote i probably sold about 10 of these MQ in a month. Funded my first fungi and a lot less work than most ways to get 50k.

[Rimitto]

With Snackpack out there camping the AC so much and driving the price down I can't see how the camp is even going to be relevant. Not worth camping out there for a 3% spawn rate, only to camp a rapier which has an 11% spawn rate (allegedly) then go pop Hasten at a 15% spawn rate, while hoping that Bro Z doesn't spawn. Then fronting the gold when you're selling the whole thing for 4500p.

absolutely not worth the effort anymore.

hirem has been selling them to dial a port for 3.5k

[Vyyn2]

hirem has been selling them to dial a port for 3.5k

yep yet another reason why the market is tanked on it. The camp is literally open right now as well. It's not worth it. The SRO rings sure since those are a drop in and check type camp, but those are hard to get. The OOT camp is essentially just irrelevant. I actually started advertising selling sings at a slightly higher cost and the general public seems to think they can put a price on someone else's time, which is really funny.

The camp used to have a list 24/7 but if you pop in during the day, quite often there's only 1 person, maybe 2 on the list. If they aren't Snackpacks buddies from FD camping it. It is what it is though, the camp will just be left uncamped eventually and the demand will go back up for the rings and people can charge 6 to 7k for them again and people will pay it.

[Knuckle]

hirem has been selling them to dial a port for 3.5k

thats a hilariously bad cost for the time to farm.

[Drueric]

I was online at 3:30am once, I whoall OOT and no one was there. I hopped on a boat and went to the AC camp and claimed it. 2 hours later I got a ring and another hour later I got a shadow rapier and sow and found hastin and got my jboots. Of course 3 ppl showed up waiting for me to leave AC, but I managed to get lucky and found a window of opportunity while the AC farmers were asleep.

[Vyyn2]

thats a hilariously bad cost for the time to farm.

Right!! I think personally everyone camping them should go back to at least 6k MQ price. The camp is literally empty again. Mid day sunday there was no list, just a mage camping it. It's a waste of peoples time. Start hocking the boots MQ for 6k again and the camp becomes relevant. If anyone complains, they can simply go camp it themselves and see what you have to go through to do it.

[Jimjam]

Why are you complaining it is too cheap? Are you struggling to find sellers?

[cd288]

Right!! I think personally everyone camping them should go back to at least 6k MQ price. The camp is literally empty again. Mid day sunday there was no list, just a mage camping it. It's a waste of peoples time. Start hocking the boots MQ for 6k again and the camp becomes relevant. If anyone complains, they can simply go camp it themselves and see what you have to go through to do it.

Not enough people needing J Boots to justify the price. The servers are stale and people aren't rolling alts like they used to, so the demand has gone way down.

[Xer0]

neckbeards dominating camps and being brats about it is confirmed classic

in a multiplayer PVE game, other players are part of the environment

yeah but you know what else was classic? just straight up stealing their kills. gtfo out of here with defending the way P99 is run by crying classic.

[Xer0]

yep yet another reason why the market is tanked on it. The camp is literally open right now as well. It's not worth it. The SRO rings sure since those are a drop in and check type camp, but those are hard to get. The OOT camp is essentially just irrelevant. I actually started advertising selling sings at a slightly higher cost and the general public seems to think they can put a price on someone else's time, which is really funny.

The camp used to have a list 24/7 but if you pop in during the day, quite often there's only 1 person, maybe 2 on the list. If they aren't Snackpacks buddies from FD camping it. It is what it is though, the camp will just be left uncamped eventually and the demand will go back up for the rings and people can charge 6 to 7k for them again and people will pay it.
my dude, that 1 or 2 people on the list could mean a wait time of 12-16 hours. what exac tly are you trying to say?

[Xer0]

With Snackpack out there camping the AC so much and driving the price down I can't see how the camp is even going to be relevant. Not worth camping out there for a 3% spawn rate, only to camp a rapier which has an 11% spawn rate (allegedly) then go pop Hasten at a 15% spawn rate, while hoping that Bro Z doesn't spawn. Then fronting the gold when you're selling the whole thing for 4500p.

absolutely not worth the effort anymore.

lmao snackpac I rememebr grouping with this guy in karnors like 2 years ago. Easily the worst player I have ever seen. Every time I've grouped with him, people died.

[Snaggles]

MQ’s are great. All those seaworthy plankings well preserved for an eventual ranger <3

I have never camped a Jboot ring and I’ve been poor since the launch of the server.

[fortior]

I think it's great that I'm able to skip annoying camps to outfit my toons with jboots

[Xer0]

neckbeards dominating camps and being brats about it is confirmed classic

in a multiplayer PVE game, other players are part of the environment
except no. Sitting in line, taking turns, holding hands and maintaining lists is objectively not classic.

[Duik]

Some like to like you know, quest for their gear.
Neckbeard fucktards perma camping stuff to MQ like that shits the fuck right outta me but in an mmo other people get to do what they wish.
Does not mean I have to like it, or not call them fucksticks.
I'd rather blow 3500gp and fuck the day of an MQee nad MQer than pay the twats.
Cheap fun says I.

[Zuranthium]

Sitting in line, taking turns, holding hands and maintaining lists is objectively not classic

Aside from the holding hands part, this objectively IS classic, from the moment the play-nice-policy got implemented. The "list" is supposed to be people taking turns killing a spawn point though.

yeah but you know what else was classic? just straight up taking their kills

Before the play-nice-policy, yes it was DPS race that determined everything.

Neither of the classic rulesets have ever been reflected on p99. That's the problem. p99 has always instead had a worse rule, where people are allowed to own single spawns.

[loramin]

Neither of the classic rulesets have ever been reflected on p99. That's the problem. p99 has always instead had a worse rule, where people are allowed to own single spawns.

In defense of P99, they only have volunteer GMs. If they had paid GMs (in Live quantities) they would almost certainly have different policies.

[shovelquest]

Just wondering, if p99 got rid of MQ would the pop take a dive because most of the players are even playing because they want to sell MQs?

[Zuranthium]

In defense of P99, they only have volunteer GMs.

It doesn't take any more GM interaction to have the ruleset of people not being allowed to own a spawn.

[Salaryman]

Why dont you play on a pvp server so you can contest the camp you want?

[shovelquest]

Why dont you play on a pvp server so you can contest the camp you want?

you mean have, have the camp you want.

[loramin]

It doesn't take any more GM interaction to have the ruleset of people not being allowed to own a spawn.

It does though. If people can own spawns, it's super clear who gets that mob, which means the GMs don't have to come out unless someone is trying to take a camp from someone who held it. Most people avoid causing that scenario, so GMs don't get called very often.

In a more classic system, anytime two people disagree a GM has to get involved ... which is why a more classic system isn't viable without some sort of /list automation.

[shovelquest]

DPS races are for bots who like to buy and sell krono to new players on live.

Or so the loosing open world raid guild can still use their power against some casual.

[Zuranthium]

It does though. If people can own spawns, it's super clear who gets that mob, which means the GMs don't have to come out unless someone is trying to take a camp from someone who held it. Most people avoid causing that scenario, so GMs don't get called very often.

In a more classic system, anytime two people disagree a GM has to get involved ... which is why a more classic system isn't viable without some sort of /list automation.

There's not much to disagree about with the classic play nice policy. The rule is the rule, must take turns killing spawns, and people will follow it to avoid "causing a scenario". GM only has to interfere if someone tries to break the rule, no different than now.

The /list function can be used to make it even more clear. Players must /list themselves at any contested spawn point, they get taken off if they die or zone out, and they get dropped to the bottom of the list after taking their turn at killing the spawn.

OFC, the ideal rule would be everything is open and group contribution determines who gets the kill every time ("contribution" being not just DPS but also factoring in all spells cast by a group while the NPC was aggroed, eg - Paladins and Clerics are low DPS but casting stun or heal still contributes to the overall factor of which group wins the race). But if we must be stuck with a more artificial way of doing things, the classic play nice policy is at least better than the non-classic version.

[Salaryman]

you mean have, have the camp you want.

no im assuming you would lose

[NPC]

MQs shouldn't work because normie ppl didn't know about them for three years. There for are not normally classic.

Butt u will need to roll green into blue and launch green 2.0 to make disabling MQS meaningful

That's not true, I made 500k selling Sro AC rings during Kunark. 35k-50k a pop back in the day. I could make an AC pop every 2 hours or so like clock work on live. Not on this server.