Bad quest designs

[port9001]

The designers of this game got a lot of things right, some of them by complete accident, but the quest design in this game is frequently just terrible.

So I'm doing the Ivy Etched Leggings quest for fun. In order to complete this quest you have to slay "brownie outcasts" and gather 6 different arrows from them. Here's the clue given by Lieutenant Leafstalker: "Get them from the brownie outcasts and combine them in the quiver."

Okay, simple enough. The quest text makes no mention of Lesser Faydark but you might stumble upon the idea that brownies live there, I can grant that. Especially when Mistmoore was such a hot leveling zone, that information would not have been difficult to come by. Also, you're a Ranger with track so finding these guys should be easy.

Here's where it gets stupid. If you're lucky, at most two brownie outcasts will be up in Lesser Faydark. You kill them, maybe you get 2 of the arrows, great. Do they respawn? Yes, but they have a placeholder which are two pixies who just float by a tower. If those pixies are never killed no outcasts will spawn. Nothing in the quest text indicates this or gives you any reason to believe you have to kill these placeholders to get them to spawn. If you were just trying to find more outcasts using track you'd end up disappointed but odds are no more would spawn. As far as I know this was never a popular levelling spot, nor does it make much sense to use it. The pixies are low level but the outcasts which can spawn instead are level 30ish. If you were using this as a camp for the pixies you'd randomly have to avoid a badass Druidman spawning instead of a pixie.

If you were doing this quest organically you'd maybe get a few arrows here are there as you passed through lfay on your way to Mistmoore but for the most part you'd need to learn, somehow, that killing these pixies gets more spawns. I can't imagine trying to complete this quest without that knowledge. Since you need 6 different arrows, you need to kill at least 10 of these outcasts before you might have all 6 arrows, assuming you have amazing luck.

Oh, and just for good measure, instead of spawning a regular pixie you sometimes get a pixie jongular which is allied with the Surefall Glade Rangers/Druids. So you'll have to take a few hits to a Ranger guild to complete this Ranger quest.

It would soothe my soul to hear of other equally or worse quest designs, of which I'm sure there are MANY.

[cd288]

I mean, by the time the online resources took off like a year after launch you could probably have found this information online in the discussion section for the mob on Allakhazam or something like that.

I do agree that it could've been nice to include some vague reference that might be a hint to a number of potential placeholders (maybe some would not be PHs at all), but ultimately I think it's kind of cool that they did it this way. They were not going to handhold at all and had no problem basically making you grind random mobs in LFay in hope that they spawned a brownie lol

[port9001]

I think what makes it cool is that it hints that there's knowledge that even the quest giver doesn't know. Since they are outcasts, maybe they've taken refuge with the pixies? But the elfbro doesn't know that, he just knows some brownies made off with his arrows. I kind of like that. I wonder if some of these decisions were intentional or if we're just rationalizing the results.

[Salaryman]

"...you werent intended to spawn camps by killing their ph..." -the guy who wrote the lore for kunark

[cd288]

"...you werent intended to spawn camps by killing their ph..." -the guy who wrote the lore for kunark

Do you have a link to that for further context? Kind of a confusing quote

[Vador981]

doing the tunarean signet ring requires killing things in WL which will wreck the faction needed to do the turn in, to get the named one that drops the crest to spawn.

[mycoolrausch]

The designers must have either had a vague and rather optimistic view of the world being more dynamic with different groups of people moving around killing different groups of mobs in such a way that intricate cross faction quest lines just harmoniously work themselves out.

Or they didn't really know what they were doing and didn't even stop to consider the ramifications of this particular placeholder on this particular spawn rotation related to this or that particular quest with this or that particular faction requirements.

Either way classic everquest is better than the modern approach of on rails theme park shit but only in the sense that vanilla ice cream is better than shit flavored ice cream, it's not a high bar.

Someone will make a truly great MMO, someday. Maybe.

[Tnair]

This was purposefully obtuse to force exploration and cooperation. In ye olden days, youd literally /ooc or ask guildies or others of your class about this shit and it was a real puzzle. You run around asking /ooc Has anyone seen brownies? someone says they were killed by a brownie two zones over. you go to lesser fay like they said and find several brownies, but no outcasts. you kill a few brownies just to see what they drop, what factions happen, etc. Nothing related to your quest. You come back the next day, find one outcast, feel joy and track it down and it doesnt drop anything but brownie parts. But now youre on a trail. You hang out looking for xp or interesting named spawns or just exploring while you try to find more outcasts. Repeat for a week and youve gained half a level, learned a new zone, learned some favorite locations where the outcasts seem to be found most often. You finally have your arrows and got dam it took forever and seemed impossible at first and now your green chainmail has your Adventure in it and isnt just pixels. A year later a newbie ranger is asking for help in ooc finding brownie outcasts and you take them on a hunting safari with your hard earned knowledge.

[azeth]

This was purposefully obtuse to force exploration and cooperation. In ye olden days, youd literally /ooc or ask guildies or others of your class about this shit and it was a real puzzle. You run around asking /ooc Has anyone seen brownies? someone says they were killed by a brownie two zones over. you go to lesser fay like they said and find several brownies, but no outcasts. you kill a few brownies just to see what they drop, what factions happen, etc. Nothing related to your quest. You come back the next day, find one outcast, feel joy and track it down and it doesnt drop anything but brownie parts. But now youre on a trail. You hang out looking for xp or interesting named spawns or just exploring while you try to find more outcasts. Repeat for a week and youve gained half a level, learned a new zone, learned some favorite locations where the outcasts seem to be found most often. You finally have your arrows and got dam it took forever and seemed impossible at first and now your green chainmail has your Adventure in it and isnt just pixels. A year later a newbie ranger is asking for help in ooc finding brownie outcasts and you take them on a hunting safari with your hard earned knowledge.

amen

[port9001]

I honestly wonder if this actually was intentional. I have a hard time imaging there were moments when quest designers were thinking "hmmm better not include too many details here" but maybe it was a design decision. I do agree it has the effect of adding a ton of mystique to the game and forces people to hang around areas in order to figure quests out. It's a pretty cool concept and in a lot of cases it did lead to some pretty fun quests.

Now I'm wondering what the most difficult to solve quest was.

[Pulgasari]

This was purposefully obtuse to force exploration and cooperation. In ye olden days, youd literally /ooc or ask guildies or others of your class about this shit and it was a real puzzle. You run around asking /ooc Has anyone seen brownies? someone says they were killed by a brownie two zones over. you go to lesser fay like they said and find several brownies, but no outcasts. you kill a few brownies just to see what they drop, what factions happen, etc. Nothing related to your quest. You come back the next day, find one outcast, feel joy and track it down and it doesnt drop anything but brownie parts. But now youre on a trail. You hang out looking for xp or interesting named spawns or just exploring while you try to find more outcasts. Repeat for a week and youve gained half a level, learned a new zone, learned some favorite locations where the outcasts seem to be found most often. You finally have your arrows and got dam it took forever and seemed impossible at first and now your green chainmail has your Adventure in it and isnt just pixels. A year later a newbie ranger is asking for help in ooc finding brownie outcasts and you take them on a hunting safari with your hard earned knowledge.

Dis good chance Juntsie tell dem bouts making friend with steenky evils. Not elf can doez all him selfs.

[magnetaress]

Holy tldrs batman. Read thread title. Saw multiple walls of text. Made this post.

Can we plz at least get a bullet point of the offensive quests plz. Like at a minimum. Example:

cleric epic - pearl shards in sky fire for days
wizard epic - fucking staffs lol
jboots - bottlenecks (both hasten and Aac ring)
soulfire - non pallies and long Lucan spawns
good militia tunic traitor guy - paladins killing Lucan the turn in mob

[magnetaress]

P.s. I didn't read any of that bulkshit or even proofread my above post

[Arvan]

its called everquest not quest for 5 minutes and get your thing

[magnetaress]

its called everquest not quest for 5 minutes and get your thing

Someone should make that server tho. 6 min respawn on quest mobs, and 100% drop rate on quest items. GG :p :cool:

[magnetaress]

ALSO way more quest exp. Butt still not do it like wow where u have markers and shit. Also wow questing sux. Since all the mobs around spawn on 6 min timers, only named/ quest mobs should. If it's a generic mob where there's like ten and it drops a quest item the item should just be 100% drop rate and mobs should stay on long timers to keep the flow good.

Melee's should def be able to spend a few days in a place like blackburrow getting 100% drop rates on fangs and get lvl 40.

[magnetaress]

Also just remove the no drop flag on this server because it then serves zero purpose.

[cd288]

This was purposefully obtuse to force exploration and cooperation. In ye olden days, youd literally /ooc or ask guildies or others of your class about this shit and it was a real puzzle. You run around asking /ooc Has anyone seen brownies? someone says they were killed by a brownie two zones over. you go to lesser fay like they said and find several brownies, but no outcasts. you kill a few brownies just to see what they drop, what factions happen, etc. Nothing related to your quest. You come back the next day, find one outcast, feel joy and track it down and it doesnt drop anything but brownie parts. But now youre on a trail. You hang out looking for xp or interesting named spawns or just exploring while you try to find more outcasts. Repeat for a week and youve gained half a level, learned a new zone, learned some favorite locations where the outcasts seem to be found most often. You finally have your arrows and got dam it took forever and seemed impossible at first and now your green chainmail has your Adventure in it and isnt just pixels. A year later a newbie ranger is asking for help in ooc finding brownie outcasts and you take them on a hunting safari with your hard earned knowledge.

True, although I think a point OP was alluding to is depending on the type and location of the PH (i.e., static camp in an obscure area that spawns mobs totally unrelated to the quest mob), and spawn chance of the mob, there could've been a decent chance that no one would ever figure it out and that's a bit of bad design. In the case of this specific quest, better design probably would've been to increase the number of PHs to include more mobs that wander throughout LFay.

[Tnair]

True, although I think a point OP was alluding to is depending on the type and location of the PH (i.e., static camp in an obscure area that spawns mobs totally unrelated to the quest mob), and spawn chance of the mob, there could've been a decent chance that no one would ever figure it out and that's a bit of bad design. In the case of this specific quest, better design probably would've been to increase the number of PHs to include more mobs that wander throughout LFay.

While I do miss the pre-wiki days of collective exploration, when Identify may have actually been helpful, I do agree overall. I think they started with this intent, of obtuse quest design, and then development spiraled and they got more and more rushed to finish, and a whole lot got just...left in whatever state it was when it was time for release. This was early days when they literally were guessing what an MMO player group would even do, and they were designing based on guesses and hopes. Not tryna argue that Brad was a genius playing 5 dimensional chess or anything. EQ1 is a mess. A beloved mess.

[Kohedron]

oh I'm sorry, next time we'll add in a built in GPS for you, you won't even need to do anything, you push a button and you teleport to the camp site. You won't need to attack them either, they just die from teleport damage

You wont need to turn the stuff in either, the quest giver goes with you through the teleport

He also gives you a blow job after

[Jimjam]

True, although I think a point OP was alluding to is depending on the type and location of the PH (i.e., static camp in an obscure area that spawns mobs totally unrelated to the quest mob), and spawn chance of the mob, there could've been a decent chance that no one would ever figure it out and that's a bit of bad design. In the case of this specific quest, better design probably would've been to increase the number of PHs to include more mobs that wander throughout LFay.

You weren't meant to figure it out - people were meant to wander about murderhoboing random mobs and that would eventually spawn the specific mobs other people would kill.

The way we do specific camps and kill no things besides those (so not 'accidently' kill phers for rares in open zones) is far from the expectations of how players would/should play.

[magnetaress]

Or did play.

I never camped a "named" in 1999 personally.

[magnetaress]

Getting shiny brass halbered was a totally accidental surprise and rly cool because all I figured was it was ex orcs with ringmail.

[magnetaress]

Exp* orcs*

[Pulgasari]

This was early days when they literally were guessing what an MMO player group would even do, and they were designing based on guesses and hopes. Not tryna argue that Brad was a genius playing 5 dimensional chess or anything. EQ1 is a mess. A beloved mess.

'Hunting' and then going back to town to recover and broker your treasure was the previous model of MMO before EQ.

[roks1]

Holy tldrs batman. Read thread title. Saw multiple walls of text. Made this post.

Can we plz at least get a bullet point of the offensive quests plz. Like at a minimum. Example:

cleric epic - pearl shards in sky fire for days
wizard epic - fucking staffs lol
jboots - bottlenecks (both hasten and Aac ring)
soulfire - non pallies and long Lucan spawns
good militia tunic traitor guy - paladins killing Lucan the turn in mob


you wot m8?

Cleric epic -- sit in nagafen's lair with your guild to make sure no one else ganked your ragefire spawn / turn in
jboots -- ks contest for pyzjyn
soulfire -- soulfire was just a paladin thing that was cool, there wasn't exactly hordes of paladins running around when that quest dropped, paladins capable of doing soulfire were the bottleneck , not lucan

wizard epic yeah i guess, except, instead of the golem turn in in Fear, you had to get a ultra hyper rare drop from cazic thule himself, skin of cazic thule.

[roks1]

just for entertainment purposes, the wizard epic drop from cazic!

https://legacyofsteel.net/archive/2001-01-17

[magnetaress]

Never said my bullet points waz gud

Thx for contributing ur own tho!

[Jimjam]

Never said my bullet points waz gud

Thx for contributing ur own tho!

Idk if they knew about the iteration of cleric epic to which you referred.

[roks1]

Never said my bullet points waz gud

Thx for contributing ur own tho!

I am more than happy to contribute my patch to your notes :^)

[cd288]

You weren't meant to figure it out - people were meant to wander about murderhoboing random mobs and that would eventually spawn the specific mobs other people would kill.

The way we do specific camps and kill no things besides those (so not 'accidently' kill phers for rares in open zones) is far from the expectations of how players would/should play.

Generally agree with you. Although with respect to this quest specifically, I don't often remember seeing groups at pixie camps in LFay just randomly grinding there.

[wuanahto]

reminder everquest now adapted to the future and made things easy sorry you died in 2004

[Ciderpress]

Emergent player behavior is a unique challenge of mmo development. It's kind of silly to even argue over what was or wasn't intended by the devs. The original EQ devs mostly took the right approach though which was to design around the emergent behavior rather than just slam through a quick patch to force player behavior back onto the rails.

Some around these parts even argue that is why everquest was good and modern mmos suck and are bad. The whole idea of "balancing" classes is kind of silly too, to a point. Achieve the perfect balance and now the classes are kinda interchangeable and none of them feel particularly bad or good at anything.

[magnetaress]

I agree that imbalance is important and class difficulty should be a personal thing. Many people like how difficult warrior and rogue can be. It's more prestigious to play a good rogue, warrior, or wizard. It's a draw for those classes.

[magnetaress]

I agree that imbalance is important and class difficulty should be a personal thing. Many people like how difficult warrior and rogue can be. It's more prestigious to play a good rogue, warrior, or wizard. It's a draw for those classes.

Or at least the people who like those classes.

[Insomnia]

Or at least the people who like those classes.

Been wanting to play a warrior for years, but feel it would be wasted with my limited play hours and the complete lack of soloability. Sure I could sit at 1 mob that repops every 6mins and probably do fine but feel i would just get burnt out after 4mths of leveling only to be like in my high 30s/low 40s

[magnetaress]

Been wanting to play a warrior for years, but feel it would be wasted with my limited play hours and the complete lack of soloability. Sure I could sit at 1 mob that repops every 6mins and probably do fine but feel i would just get burnt out after 4mths of leveling only to be like in my high 30s/low 40s
I've got the same issue. I quit eq because I want to spend more of my limited time / ability IRL.

The trick to doing a war like that's is to kill one mob an hour forever and that's pretty much it. It also starts to take awhile to just kill the mobs once you hit 50+. Can take like ten minutes and you gotta be at a zoneline or in a corner where you can stop push and bandage. Or bug out if you get bad RNG There's a ton of variability in damage in/ out the higher you get.

At that point you really need a static duo. Then it's much easier. I am not really antisocial or psychopathic. I just can't play enough to be there for my friends and I won't just leach exp or beg levels. I want to be able to contribute to others while we play and be there for them. So that leaves cleric/ necro/druid really.

[branamil]

I mean we don't want brainless quests with a giant exclamation point over the quest giver and a big arrow on your map on where to go, with instructions like "KILL TEN OF THESE BOARS FOR THEIR BOAR ASSES"

I think it's cooler that some quests took years to figure out. The only issue I have is that there is a lot of dead-end and broken quests.

[magnetaress]

I mean we don't want brainless quests with a giant exclamation point over the quest giver and a big arrow on your map on where to go, with instructions like "KILL TEN OF THESE BOARS FOR THEIR BOAR ASSES"

I think it's cooler that some quests took years to figure out. The only issue I have is that there is a lot of dead-end and broken quests.

100%

Also I love repeatable style bounty quests like gnoll fangs. Should be tradeskills versions like for the different pottery items so people can level and make some small coin through that.

[Evia]

I actually like the obscure worded quests of EQ. I just wish they were fleshed out a bit more. Like some previous people already said, too many broken or incomplete quests to really say EQ had a good quests system. I'd still prefer it over the wow style where it totally holds your hand.

[cd288]

Been wanting to play a warrior for years, but feel it would be wasted with my limited play hours and the complete lack of soloability. Sure I could sit at 1 mob that repops every 6mins and probably do fine but feel i would just get burnt out after 4mths of leveling only to be like in my high 30s/low 40s

Yeah unless you have a goal of being an MT in high end raid content at level 60, soloing a warrior is a bit of a pointless exercise. If you're not trying to be a raid tank, then a warrior is better used as a backup alt for when you feel like grouping rather than soloing one up for no reason.

[Tnair]

Meanwhile EverQuest: "bring me ten boar asses"

and only MarshBoars in the gnome zoo on another continent have any chance of dropping boar asses

[Videri]

Been wanting to play a warrior for years, but feel it would be wasted with my limited play hours and the complete lack of soloability. Sure I could sit at 1 mob that repops every 6mins and probably do fine but feel i would just get burnt out after 4mths of leveling only to be like in my high 30s/low 40s

cd288 is right. In my opinion, a warrior is something you play because your friends need a warrior.

It is not a versatile nor engaging class. You have to have people to buff and CH you, people to pull and CC. It’s a great class if you have people to talk or type to while you play. It’s a class you play because you care about the advancement of those around you and wish to support with your beefy HP.

[magnetaress]

Or it's something you twink with really cool gear like it's a fancy roadster.

[Dolalin]

This was purposefully obtuse to force exploration and cooperation. In ye olden days, youd literally /ooc or ask guildies or others of your class about this shit and it was a real puzzle. You run around asking /ooc Has anyone seen brownies? someone says they were killed by a brownie two zones over. you go to lesser fay like they said and find several brownies, but no outcasts. you kill a few brownies just to see what they drop, what factions happen, etc. Nothing related to your quest. You come back the next day, find one outcast, feel joy and track it down and it doesnt drop anything but brownie parts. But now youre on a trail. You hang out looking for xp or interesting named spawns or just exploring while you try to find more outcasts. Repeat for a week and youve gained half a level, learned a new zone, learned some favorite locations where the outcasts seem to be found most often. You finally have your arrows and got dam it took forever and seemed impossible at first and now your green chainmail has your Adventure in it and isnt just pixels. A year later a newbie ranger is asking for help in ooc finding brownie outcasts and you take them on a hunting safari with your hard earned knowledge.

[Dolalin]

To expand a little more, the devs were working on a game where people would literally quit their jobs and work on these puzzles 24/7. If they gave any more than the most basic hints, the quest would be solved and all over the internet in a day or two at most. Look at the crazy lengths people went to trying to find clues for the original FA quest, people were going through towns mob by mob and spamming them with keywords.

In the days of classic EQ you could throw out basically zero hints and the quest would still be figured out in under a month. So that's what they kept doing.

[cd288]

To expand a little more, the devs were working on a game where people would literally quit their jobs and work on these puzzles 24/7. If they gave any more than the most basic hints, the quest would be solved and all over the internet in a day or two at most. Look at the crazy lengths people went to trying to find clues for the original FA quest, people were going through towns mob by mob and spamming them with keywords.

In the days of classic EQ you could throw out basically zero hints and the quest would still be figured out in under a month. So that's what they kept doing.

Dolalin!? Where you been!

You think this Ranger quest people have been discussing would be solved in under a month though? Such an obscure PH in an obscure area of a weird zone. You'd really have to go through a concerted process of "I'm going to kill every single mob in LFay many many times to try and figure out the spawn table of every single spawn." I guess you could've had random groups at the pixies occasionally, but I don't really recall people doing PUGs there in LFay.

[WarpathEQ]

Dolalin!? Where you been!

You think this Ranger quest people have been discussing would be solved in under a month though? Such an obscure PH in an obscure area of a weird zone. You'd really have to go through a concerted process of "I'm going to kill every single mob in LFay many many times to try and figure out the spawn table of every single spawn." I guess you could've had random groups at the pixies occasionally, but I don't really recall people doing PUGs there in LFay.

Yeah I think the key is that the zones were a lot more populated back there so there was likely groups of people in virtually every zone accross the continent(s). In your example its very likely that this would be something figured out in reverse. People are actively killing PHs (just normal mobs for exp) and a unique mob spawns then it becomes I won't what this mob is for? Or they kill the mob and get the loot then work towards figuring out where the loot goes.

[Trexller]

how has no one mentioned that back in '99, verant devs were active players giving out hints or straight up informing their guild mates of what to do for whatever quest they needed

or that they also patched, nerfed and modified the game to suit their personal play styles

this is how they figured things out so fast, there was nothing organic about it

[cd288]

Yeah I think the key is that the zones were a lot more populated back there so there was likely groups of people in virtually every zone accross the continent(s). In your example its very likely that this would be something figured out in reverse. People are actively killing PHs (just normal mobs for exp) and a unique mob spawns then it becomes I won't what this mob is for? Or they kill the mob and get the loot then work towards figuring out where the loot goes.

Yeah true, I just don't really remember LFay being that populated besides the sisters and maybe one or two other spots. It was like one of those zones that for whatever reason didn't have that many PUGs in it like other zones...maybe because it's big, long run from end to end, dark, with dangerous mobs wandering around.

[Duik]

I heard one was enarmoured with necros and monks (may have been 2 seperate devs but...) so they got lotsa lovin from the loot gods. In 2k (before I knew anything abput what made a class OP) i assumed it was just class envy.
Based on what i know about human nature now i believe Trexller is closer to the truth than a lie.

[enjchanter]

Imagine you spends weeks trying to figure out to spawn the correct level 17 mob in lfay and you finally turn in your quest after many sleepless nights and you get an 8/26 spear with 2 agi

[Trexller]

pre-kunark/planar an 8 dmg piercer is pretty good

it's the best back stabber until planar stuff

that's like saying imagine gearing up in plane of fear for many sleepless nights until ToV drops

the whole game was designed with the intention of retaining monthly paying customers, of course everything is gonna take forever to accomplish, if you got everything done in a month then you aren't gonna keep paying the subscription

this whole thread is a bad quest design

[Pulgasari]

pre-kunark/planar an 8 dmg piercer is pretty good

it's the best back stabber until planar stuff

that's like saying imagine gearing up in plane of fear for many sleepless nights until ToV drops

the whole game was designed with the intention of retaining monthly paying customers, of course everything is gonna take forever to accomplish, if you got everything done in a month then you aren't gonna keep paying the subscription

this whole thread is a bad quest design

It's not the devs fault if the players missed out on exploring the world.

[Trexller]

It's not the devs fault if the players missed out on exploring the world.

nobody LFGs in runnyeye so that means there is nothing worth killing there!

im just gonna sit semi afk at EC tunnel w/ LFG tag up then complain no one groups

[Duik]

I know people love the tunnel but originally, if i couldnt make it, quest it or loot it it was less attractive. I did buy things and was gifted stuff as well so its not like i was ssf or anything. But the questing/tradeskills (no matter how fucking useless) was what i was into.
No 3 week3 to lvl 50 for me! But as a woody druid i saw most of the game zones before my xp whore friends did. Headinf to zones before i could safely xp them was scarey/exciting to me. Snaring shit and kiting it for ages taught me how to sit on med ticks to perfection.
Also quests were something d&d did badly. Quest text was awesome, no matter the reward.

[Trexller]

Duik actually plays EverQuest.

[magnetaress]

i subbed for a long time and even played eq forevre practically and never once looted an 8 dmg piercer or paid dkp for it

u can beat the game with a 7 dmg peircer or a gloompoon and some fletched bows if ur keen

anyway eq woulda retained more subs if they did a better job with the 1-60 content instead of just focusing on 60 content of a few zones, except SoE/verant had cut most of the staff after luclin except a few core ppl who got through pop and G-D and then it went down hill when they lost their core level designers to other things since they where too constrained at the studio.

[cd288]

pre-kunark/planar an 8 dmg piercer is pretty good

it's the best back stabber until planar stuff

that's like saying imagine gearing up in plane of fear for many sleepless nights until ToV drops

the whole game was designed with the intention of retaining monthly paying customers, of course everything is gonna take forever to accomplish, if you got everything done in a month then you aren't gonna keep paying the subscription

this whole thread is a bad quest design

True, although with the expansions I'd say it's a little bit different since the gap between gear you could find in Velious and prior gear was so large. They could've made the upgrades more incremental.

[Salaryman]

Do you have a link to that for further context? Kind of a confusing quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=766Neql98JU

[Salaryman]

The designers must have either had a vague and rather optimistic view of the world being more dynamic with different groups of people moving around killing different groups of mobs in such a way that intricate cross faction quest lines just harmoniously work themselves out.

Or they didn't really know what they were doing and didn't even stop to consider the ramifications of this particular placeholder on this particular spawn rotation related to this or that particular quest with this or that particular faction requirements.

Either way classic everquest is better than the modern approach of on rails theme park shit but only in the sense that vanilla ice cream is better than shit flavored ice cream, it's not a high bar.

Someone will make a truly great MMO, someday. Maybe.

this

[Dolalin]

Dolalin!? Where you been!


Busy with work and family, like most 40 somethings I guess :D

I gave search engine access to several people in the Bug forums and they've been carrying the torch. Devs have it too, including TAKP devs. So I'm not a single point of failure anymore.

[Hasbinbad]

pre-kunark/planar an 8 dmg piercer is pretty good

it's the best back stabber until planar stuff

that's like saying imagine gearing up in plane of fear for many sleepless nights until ToV drops

the whole game was designed with the intention of retaining monthly paying customers, of course everything is gonna take forever to accomplish, if you got everything done in a month then you aren't gonna keep paying the subscription

this whole thread is a bad quest design
someone never played a classic rogue lmao

[Tnair]

True, although with the expansions I'd say it's a little bit different since the gap between gear you could find in Velious and prior gear was so large. They could've made the upgrades more incremental.

cant stop myself here

9 damage kedge piercer (from the very first room) and vox spear both better piercers before planes

[cd288]

cant stop myself here

9 damage kedge piercer (from the very first room) and vox spear both better piercers before planes

Oh sorry I should've been more clear, I wasn't commenting on what's BIS for piercing weps. I was more commenting on his other statements about gear progression through the expansions.

[Trexller]

someone never played a classic rogue lmao

yeah really why would anyone play classic rogue

[Trexller]

or even velious rogue TBH

your entire life is auto attack, backstab, evade ad infinitum.

then open doors or drag corpses

also, it's worth mentioning for the 10,000th time that P99 rogues are invisible to ALOT more mobs than they were on live.

Even with the Shroud of Stealth AA, rogues on live were visible to many many more mobs then P99

[Trexller]

triple post!

rogue hide back in the day was barely more than a perma invis spell that snared you.

not this sneak past literally everything BS here on p99

[cd288]

also, it's worth mentioning for the 10,000th time that P99 rogues are invisible to ALOT more mobs than they were on live.

Even with the Shroud of Stealth AA, rogues on live were visible to many many more mobs then P99

That's interesting actually. Where'd you find the proof for that? Feel like that would be a really interesting read. Curious what mobs are nonclassic.

[Trexller]

That's interesting actually. Where'd you find the proof for that? Feel like that would be a really interesting read. Curious what mobs are nonclassic.

i know from playing rogue on live that we couldn't sneak down to trak on live

among mobs like undead and casters there would always be 1 here or there that saw you

[roks1]

someone never played a classic rogue lmao

Fortunately most didn't get a chance to play the Real Classic Rogue with the complete package of no evasion "skill" to shed aggro. Maybe someone could have gotten the mistmoore dagger and really made him the deadest man on the server till evade fix.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Fanged_Skull_Stiletto

[roks1]

Fortunately most didn't get a chance to play the Real Classic Rogue with the complete package of no evasion "skill" to shed aggro. Maybe someone could have gotten the mistmoore dagger and really made him the deadest man on the server till evade fix.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Fanged_Skull_Stiletto

Server probably only got what, 1? maybe before mayong got sent packing. Any other oldboys member?