Shadow knight aggro

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Calls legit everybody else on the fourms a troll every time they SAy something he doesn't like. That in itself is a form of trolling LOL.

I don't call people trolls simply because they disagree with me. Do you even have an example of this?

I call people trolls when they act like trolls. The people who repeatedly act like this are factually trolls:

You're the only one I'm "harassing", you manipulative sociopath.

Wahhhh everybody is a troll except me wahhhhhh

DSM can only wish he was Sgt Seymour Skinner.
DSM Despises Skinner Memes.

So just spam it and assume it doesn't work. Got it. Thanks for the 20+ pages. DSM wins again folks.

look at this dude, just unhinged on his 18th page, lawl

You don't act like this when you disagree with someone. It doesn't matter whether they are right or wrong. Only trolls act like this.

And yes, I have mimicked you numerous times in am attempt you get you to self reflect

It is extremely childish and silly to claim other people are causing you to troll. You are just a troll. Nobody is forcing you to post nonsense. You do realize you are doing the very thing you are accusing me of? You are calling me a troll (and trolling me) simply because you disagree with me.

I am not sure why people are so angry at a basic factual statement like:


"The opportunity cost of missing a single taunt is minimal due to the unreliable nature of taunt and it's 6 second cooldown. Switching between spamming taunt and using taunt strategically costs you a single taunt in the worst case. Therefore, do not be afraid to press the taunt button for fear of a missed taunt."

[Gloomlord]

Alright, I call your bluff...

How are you not a manipulative sociopath? Come on!

There is not a single shred of integrity within you, and you attempt to shift the goalposts constantly, then you try to paint the people disagreeing with you and pointing out how stubborn you are into trolls.

You have some extreme audacity to act indignant, scumbag.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Alright, I call your bluff...

How are you not a manipulative sociopath? Come on!

There is not a single shred of integrity within you, and you attempt to shift the goalposts constantly, then you try to paint the people disagreeing with you and pointing out how stubborn you are into trolls.

You have some extreme audacity to act indignant, scumbag.

You're the only one I'm "harassing", you manipulative sociopath.

Yikes.

[Gloomlord]

"Harassing"

Notice the quotation marks? You accused me of "harassment", when we both know what it really is.

If it's harassment, turn on ignore and shut up.

YIKES!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

"Harassing"

Notice the quotation marks? You accused me of "harassment", when we both know what it really is.

If it's harassment, turn on ignore and shut up.

YIKES!

450+ out of 581 posts of your posts look like this:

You're the only one I'm "harassing", you manipulative sociopath.

And you don't think it's harassment? Yikes.

[Gloomlord]

Who talks like this unless they are trying to be incendiary?

There's not even a thorough rebuttal here anymore, because you know what you are. Just plugging in your ears and repeating the same thing is your last desperate attempt to avoid accountability.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Who talks like this unless they are trying to be incendiary?

You're the only one I'm "harassing", you manipulative sociopath.

You think this isn't incendiary? Yikes.

[Gloomlord]

So why are you engaging with me?

[Guesty07]

"You do realise you are doing the very thing you are accusing me of"

ROFL you just don't get it do you? Keep trolling these posts with your nonsense. Everybody knows what's up expect you

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So why are you engaging with me?

The real question is, why are 450+/ 582 posts of yours nothing but this?

You're the only one I'm "harassing", you manipulative sociopath.

Acting like a troll is not how you stop people from trolling. You just became the thing you thought you were fighting.

"You do realise you are doing the very thing you are accusing me of"

ROFL you just don't get it do you? Keep trolling these posts with your nonsense. Everybody knows what's up expect you

You are acting like a troll, and have this strange idea that acting like a troll is somehow reducing the number of trolls on these forums lol. Last time I checked +1 is not -1.

[Guesty07]

It is indeed nonsense. Finally you admit.

[Gloomlord]

You didn't answer the question because you know you are projecting, correct?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It is indeed nonsense.

Exactly. Please stop acting like a troll. If you disagree with someone, act like an adult and bring facts, logic, and evidence to the debate.

You didn't answer the question because you know you are projecting, correct?

Even if every lie you told about me was true, you are still factually a troll. 450+/581 of your posts look like this:

You're the only one I'm "harassing", you manipulative sociopath.

[Guesty07]

Agree, stop trolling these fourms. 5400 posts of trolling. Give it a rest

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Agree, stop trolling these fourms. 5400 posts of trolling. Give it a rest

Please show some examples of me trolling.

[Guesty07]

Uhhhhh, look no further than this thread.... calling people names at every opportunity.

[Gloomlord]

You should be exceedingly thankful for your lack of sanity -- it has enabled you to endure this world and yourself.

[Gloomlord]

Please show some examples of me trolling.

https://media.tenor.com/rZ0XFlICefgAAAAC/picard-face-palm.gif

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Uhhhhh, look no further than this thread.... calling people names at every opportunity.

You haven't given an example yet.

Wahhhh everybody is a troll except me wahhhhhh

This is troll behavior. It is not name calling to say you are trolling when you post this. I am just pointing it out.

[Gloomlord]

How many threads have you been in now where we've called you out? I'd say at least 30 people have given you shit now.

We're not "trolls" -- you're just an annoying arrogant scumbag.

You've been checkmated and you're still going on. That takes a real lack of sanity

No, you idiot, repeating the line about my post count and how I sarcastically said I "harassed" you won't do you any favours.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

How many threads have you been in now where we've called you out? I'd say at least 30 people have given you shit now.

We're not "trolls" -- you're just an annoying arrogant scumbag.

You've been checkmated and you're still going on. That takes a real lack of sanity

No, you idiot, repeating the line about my post count and how I sarcastically said I "harassed" you won't do you any favours.

You think this doesn't make you look like an arrogant scumbag? Yikes.

You might want to read your posts before you hit the button.

[Gloomlord]

How was that even a comeback...?

"YIKES"

[Guesty07]

Hey friends, if you want to be a great tank, one minor aspect you can do is not spam taunt on cooldown like a 12 year old in 1999. Instead, save it to use at a moment you deem necessary. Remember, taunt is a unique ability, that no item or spell can match when successful. Use it wisely as part of your overall tank kit. Any questions please do reach out, happy to help.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Hey friends, if you want to be a great tank, one minor aspect you can do is not spam taunt on cooldown like a 12 year old in 1999. Instead, save it to use at a moment you deem necessary. Remember, taunt is a unique ability, that no item or spell can match when successful. Use it wisely as part of your overall tank kit. Any questions please do reach out, happy to help.

Thank you for posting your opinion in a friendly way! That is a good change of pace.

I believe you are missing some nuance, however. Take a look at this quote:


"The opportunity cost of missing a single taunt is minimal due to the unreliable nature of taunt and it's 6 second cooldown. Switching between spamming taunt and using taunt strategically costs you a single taunt in the worst case. Therefore, do not be afraid to press the taunt button for fear of a missed taunt."

The opportunity cost of using taunt is minimal, regardless of how you press the button. There is no reason to be afraid of using it, or hesitating due to not knowing if the time is right.

Taunting at the right time is a great strategy, but not everybody does this for whatever reason. Snaggles, for example, doesn't use taunt at all. He is a tank that is level 60 and tanks raid content, so don't think that this only applies to newer players.

If you are a player like Snaggles, you can spam taunt to get some utility out of it. You get +1 hate every 6 seconds, and an 8.33% chance to taunt automatically.

You can just assign taunt to a macro you are already spamming (Bash/Slam is a good one) and get a free boost to your agro generation with no extra effort! If you have room on your macro, you can add disarm and beg as well. Those will also generate agro for you.

Spam taunt or save it, both will work just fine. The only time you are getting nothing out of the skill is if you don't use it!

[Toxigen]

christ if you're begging for aggro you've got bigger problems

[DeathsSilkyMist]

christ if you're begging for aggro you've got bigger problems

Agreed! Nobody is suggesting that you are using beg out of necessity. But if you can fit disarm/beg/taunt on a macro you are spamming anyway, you are getting potential extra hate literally for free. Why not use it?

Snap agro is the primary agro tool of an SK, and we all agree on that.

[Ripqozko]

Please show some examples of me trolling.

Every single thread you join

[Danth]

But if you can fit disarm/beg/taunt on a macro you are spamming anyway, you are getting potential extra hate literally for free. Why not use it?

I can answer this: Because the benefit gained from more aggro generation is not unlimited. Once you're already holding aggro, any additional threat, be it +1, or +1000, is wasted. Hence spamming those abilities is typically of no value on a knight who's holding aggro anyway. That's more of a warrior tactic when they're scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for any extra threat they can find.

In the specific case of beg you do actually get some "harm" by using it unnecessarily: It adds hate when it fails, so you want to keep your skill as low as possible to maximize fail rate. Using it all the time, hence skilling it up faster, is detrimental. Disarm and Taunt have no such long-term downside.

I don't like macroing abilities together because the macro button doesn't stay "greyed out" when on cooldown the same way, say, Bash does just by itself. I do use bash "strategically" when battling spellcasters, as any knight should, so I like having the visual reference. That's just personal preference, of course, and other folks can and do use other setups and do fine.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Every single thread you join

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3646509&postcount=210
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3642095&postcount=6
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3654953&postcount=94
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3654590&postcount=152
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3660835&postcount=233
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3659813&postcount=10

etc.

You are simply projecting your clear trolling behavior on to me.

I can answer this: Because the benefit gained from more aggro generation is not unlimited. Once you're already holding aggro, any additional threat, be it +1, or +1000, is wasted. Hence spamming those abilities is typically of no value on a knight who's holding aggro anyway. That's more of a warrior tactic when they're scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for any extra threat they can find.


Building an agro buffer means that you are more likely to hold agro. If you have +500 over the rogue, the mob is less likely to flip. Adding to the buffer is always better, since you can't see the numbers in the agro list. You have no idea if you are +1 or +500. For all you know the +1 hate from taunt every 6 seconds is the only thing keeping you at +7 over the rogue.


In the specific case of beg you do actually get some "harm" by using it unnecessarily: It adds hate when it fails, so you want to keep your skill as low as possible to maximize fail rate. Using it all the time, hence skilling it up faster, is detrimental. Disarm and Taunt have no such long-term downside.


I agree that leveling up beg makes it worse. But if you never use it then you are getting nothing out of it anyway. I am sure a lot of people simply don't use it at all. Which is fine of course, I am not saying you need to use it. But I don't think having a fear of skilling up beg is a good reason to not use it. You just end up never pressing it, and getting nothing out of it.

[Danth]

I sure as heck do normally have a feel for when I have a good threat lead or not. I've also been doing the tank job a long flippin' time, and that's something that only comes with the experience of mastery at a job. Maybe some other players might not have the same instinct for the job if they haven't been doing it as long. So, yeah, if you're new to the job and uncertain of yourself, or playing in such a way that you're sometimes shaky on aggro, link those abilities if you like. If you don't need to, then don't do it.

[bcbrown]

Building an agro buffer means that you are more likely to hold agro. If you have +500 over the rogue, the mob is less likely to flip. Adding to the buffer is always better, since you can't see the numbers in the agro list. You have no idea if you are +1 or +500. For all you know the +1 hate from taunt every 6 seconds is the only thing keeping you at +7 over the rogue.

But you do still agree that the approach for which you advocate is less optimal than saving taunt to use strategicly, if you're trying to minimize the frequency of losing aggro and not flipping it right back with a successful taunt, right?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I sure as heck do normally have a feel for when I have a good threat lead or not. I've also been doing the tank job a long flippin' time, and that's something that only comes with the experience of mastery at a job. Maybe some other players might not have the same instinct for the job if they haven't been doing it as long. So, yeah, if you're new to the job and uncertain of yourself, or playing in such a way that you're sometimes shaky on aggro, link those abilities if you like. If you don't need to, then don't do it.

I have a good feel for it too. I've also tanked for years. Nor am I suggesting you do not have a good feel.

My point is simple: More agro is better, as it decreases the chance of a flip. There is no downside to adding more agro, only upsides. Unless of course you don't want agro hehe.

But you do still agree that the approach for which you advocate is less optimal than saving taunt to use strategicly, if you're trying to minimize the frequency of losing aggro and not flipping it right back with a successful taunt, right?

I don't know why you keep asking. You should read the thread, I have answered this question multiple times. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3664065&postcount=276 is the latest answer, which was last page.

[bcbrown]

I don't know why you keep asking. You should read the thread, I have answered this question multiple times. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3664065&postcount=276 is the latest answer, which was last page.

I want you to either admit it is less optimal, or use some math to prove it is more optimal.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I want you to either admit it is less optimal, or use some math to prove it is more optimal.

Thank you for admitting that is what you are fishing for.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3664065&postcount=276

That has the answer you are looking for.

[Danth]

I do not agree it reduces chance of a flip. If I want aggro, chance of a flip is already zero--can't go below zero. I understand where you're coming from in theory, but this is a case where theory and real practice are not precisely the same.

I get a feeling that you and I probably play our characters a little differently and I probably "go at it harder" than you do as a matter of habit. At least that's the impression I get re-reading some of my own posts, and yours. Neither is right, nor wrong--just, perhaps, an insight into our relative differences in opinion. Likewise, we know from past interaction that you, to some extent, enjoy eeking out every advantage whether its needed or not just for the fun of doing so, whereas I'm more likely to stop caring at those last few percent when we're hitting diminishing returns territory.

[bcbrown]

That has the answer you are looking for.

No where in that post do you claim that the approach for which you advocate is optimal over strategic taunting. Thank you for conceding that it is non-optimal behavior.

[Vivitron]

It’s not nearly the threat of a stat tap or pre-nerf DC. Probably 1/3 or 1/4th as much. For 20m it’s a great utility spell, for delaying pulls or stopping runners.

Clinging is however currently the same aggro as a shadow vortex or shroud of hate. (edit: Oh you mentioned stat taps. I've tested it. You get full aggro for "didn't take hold" and "immune to changes in runspeed" too.)

It's too bad about DC. There are patch notes (after our era) about slow first getting moved to disease, then slow having too much aggro and that aggro getting fixed. I assume that's where DC's aggro should be nerfed, and that it's a bug that it's nerfed on p99.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Thank you for conceding that it is non-optimal behavior.

I am not conceding anything, because I never made that argument. Please stop being silly.

[bcbrown]

Silly is making over a hundred posts, almost 40% of the posts in a thread, advocating for an approach that is sub-optimal to the approach that almost everyone else in the thread advocates for.

By not making an argument that your approach is optimal, you concede by default that the other approach almost everyone else favors is optimal.

[Danth]

It's too bad about DC. There are patch notes (after our era) about slow first getting moved to disease, then slow having too much aggro and that aggro getting fixed. I assume that's where DC's aggro should be nerfed, and that it's a bug that it's nerfed on p99.

It's definitely a bug (or a deliberate out-of-era nerf to the game) because the loss of counter aggro also trivializes aggro from some other spells on other classes that absolutely should not be trivial aggro. Intended or not, we have to deal with it until such a time as it's changed. For now, DC's junk. Main reason you might not use Clinging on a charm pet is if you don't want the pet dotted (it can be annoying at times) but Clinging has a short enough duration that's usually not a problem. It was more annoying with DC's long duration.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Silly is making over a hundred posts, almost 40% of the posts in a thread, advocating for an approach that is sub-optimal to the approach that almost everyone else in the thread advocates for.

By not making an argument that your approach is optimal, you concede by default that the other approach almost everyone else favors is optimal.

This is incorrect. Your misreading of this thread is not relevant. Nuance seems to be lost on you unfortunately.

[bcbrown]

This is incorrect. Your misreading of this thread is not relevant. Nuance seems to be lost on you unfortunately.

Refusal to engage on the merits plus a personal attack. This is what trolling looks like.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Refusal to engage on the merits plus a personal attack. This is what trolling looks like.

You are purposely mischaracterizing my position and trying to force me to agree with it, thus making a strawman to attack. Pointing that out is not trolling. If you don't want me to point it out, please stop doing it.

[bcbrown]

You are purposely mischaracterizing my position and trying to force me to agree with it, thus making a strawman to attack. Pointing that out is not trolling. If you don't want me to point it out, please stop doing it.

I apologize for mischaracterizing your position. It's just really hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea of someone making over a hundred posts advocating for an approach, while being unable or unwilling to argue that it's more optimal than the approach almost everyone else in the thread prefers.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I apologize for mischaracterizing your position. It's just really hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea of someone making over a hundred posts advocating for an approach, while being unable or unwilling to argue that it's more optimal than the approach almost everyone else in the thread prefers.

I am not doing that, so you don't need to worry about wrapping your head around it! This is the issue, you are making assumptions about what you think I am doing, while ignoring what I am saying.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3664065&postcount=276

This is what I have been saying the whole time. Were some of my posts worded incorrectly? Sure. I admitted as much.

Have people been harassing this thread and trolling it? Absolutely. The bloat comes from the trolls, not from me. You should spend more time commenting on their bad behavior.

If you were being sincere, you would be telling other posters something like "I agree with your position, but why are you acting so hostile and trolling this thread simply because of another person's perspective?" Your criticisms ring hollow when you ignore everything else, especially when they do the things you accuse me of.

[bcbrown]

If you are a player like Snaggles, you can spam taunt to get some utility out of it. You get +1 hate every 6 seconds, and an 8.33% chance to taunt automatically.

Snaggles has already seen the light! He's the chief evangelist of MacroTaunt:

I’ll still likely put taunt on my bar. To a single hotkey with a /doability # and /cast 1 entry. I’m going to call this Macro Taunt. Please enter it as the third and most superior method. It’s the Venn Diagram between lazy and effective.

All hail MacroTaunt! Truly the pinnacle of optimal gameplay!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Snaggles has already seen the light! He's the chief evangelist of MacroTaunt:

All hail MacroTaunt! Truly the pinnacle of optimal gameplay!

Of course! Snaggles can use his MacroTaunt too. I am not trying to force people into a single strategy. I am explaining the options, and letting the reader decide which one they want to use. Information is power. Let people know all the details of taunt and how it can be used. There is no harm in that.

Clearly there are people out there who don't press taunt at all, so it isn't like everybody is using strategic taunt to begin with. If they can put taunt on a macro they can spam, they'll get more use out of taunt than if they don't use it at all. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3664065&postcount=276

I probably "go at it harder" than you do as a matter of habit.

I also play my character correctly in a consistent manner. More agro is better than less agro, so I try to eek out every bit I can. Spamming taunt is "going harder" than someone who doesn't press taunt at all. It's a small bonus, but something is better than nothing. You can always switch to strategic taunting whenever you need to, since it has a 6 second cooldown.

[bcbrown]

Of course! Snaggles can use his MacroTaunt too. I am not trying to force people into a single strategy. I am explaining the options, and letting the reader decide which one they want to use. Information is power. Let people know all the details of taunt and how it can be used. There is no harm in that.

Agreed absolutely! Everyone should play how they want to play. If you like Clicking The Button, Click The Button, it'll be fine. But it's important for people to know that if they want to minimize the chances of aggro flipping where a single taunt fails to flip it back, the optimal approach is to use taunt strategically, and not spam it. Information is power.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Agreed absolutely! Everyone should play how they want to play. If you like Clicking The Button, Click The Button, it'll be fine.

Yes, play how you want.


But it's important for people to know that if they want to minimize the chances of aggro flipping where a single taunt fails to flip it back, the optimal approach is to use taunt strategically, and not spam it. Information is power.

If your first strategic taunt fails and you are still in melee range, you will be spamming the taunt button to get it off cooldown as fast as possible for a second attempt. Another reason why spamming taunt is something people need to know about. It also works with strategic taunting!

[bcbrown]

I think we can wrap this thread up. Good work everyone!

[Penish]

can anyone else tell DSM is unemployed? cause lol

[Toxigen]

i never once taunted on my paladin

hope this helps

[Ripqozko]

i never once taunted on my paladin

hope this helps

Like said it's nice to throw in when someone dies and ya picking the mob up, you are already going to be spamming to catch up, the prayer of +1 is worth the shot to save time and flip it to you. Otherwise no it's not needed. Knights don't lose aggro If they have it established. DSM just gonna DSM I feel bad for kittens.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Like said it's nice to throw in when someone dies and ya picking the mob up, you are already going to be spamming to catch up, the prayer of +1 is worth the shot to save time and flip it to you. Otherwise no it's not needed. Knights don't lose aggro If they have it established. DSM just gonna DSM I feel bad for kittens.

There is no "DSM just gonna DSM". I simply pointed out that someone like Toxigen or Snaggles who never uses taunt would get more value from it if they put it on a macro they are already spamming. Something is better than nothing is pretty simple logic. For some reason people went crazy at the idea.

It is "trolls just gonna troll", since these threads always attract the same posters who troll. Including yourself.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3646509&postcount=210
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3642095&postcount=6
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3654953&postcount=94
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3654590&postcount=152
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3660835&postcount=233
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3659813&postcount=10

etc.

You are simply projecting your clear trolling behavior on to me.

[Crede]

There is no "DSM just gonna DSM". I simply pointed out that someone like Toxigen or Snaggles who never uses taunt would get more value from it if they put it on a macro they are already spamming. Something is better than nothing is pretty simple logic

What proof do you have they are spamming something else already? Knights don’t need to spam anything, nor does anyone. What you’re doing is suggesting knights consider spamming which now forces them to do potentially more APM for a suboptimal taunt vs less apm and a more optimal taunt. It’s nonsensical.

I’m sorry you lost this debate a lot time ago, but please stop with just calling people trolls who don’t see things the way you do, it’s not helping your case any.

[Crede]

I think we can wrap this thread up. Good work everyone!

Well done! Always fun to see him squirm when he’s realized he’s outmatched.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

What proof do you have they are spamming something else already? Knights don’t need to spam anything, nor does anyone. What you’re doing is suggesting knights consider spamming which now forces them to do potentially more APM for a suboptimal taunt vs less apm and a more optimal taunt. It’s nonsensical.


If you have Slam as a troll/ogre, you might as well spam it for a bit of extra DPS. Or Bash with a shield/epic if you are a small race. I never claimed that every Knight is doing that. I am not sure why you think that is a valid point. Some people do spam macros, you have no evidence to suggest that zero players do it. The benefit to spamming a skill is you use it as fast as possible, with minimum time between cooldowns. For me it also takes less effort and brainpower, so I don't mind. It's fine if you don't like to do it, everybody is different.

Well done! Always fun to see him squirm when he’s realized he’s outmatched.

I am not sure why you think I am squirming. I have consistently rebutted all of the claims that spamming taunt is never useful. Conversely, you haven't disproven anything I have said. You have no evidence to suggest spamming taunt is worse than never using taunt, for example.


I’m sorry you lost this debate a lot time ago, but please stop with just calling people trolls who don’t see things the way you do, it’s not helping your case any.

I don't call people trolls because they disagree with me. You can't even find evidence that I have done this. I call people trolls when they troll. Do you disagree that these people are acting like trolls? That is the only way you can claim my accusations of troll have no merit. But if you try to make that claim, it is pretty obvious you are being disingenuous.


You're the only one I'm "harassing", you manipulative sociopath.



Wahhhh everybody is a troll except me wahhhhhh



DSM can only wish he was Sgt Seymour Skinner.
DSM Despises Skinner Memes.


So just spam it and assume it doesn't work. Got it. Thanks for the 20+ pages. DSM wins again folks.


look at this dude, just unhinged on his 18th page, lawl

[skulldudes]

dsm do you actually go through the entire post history of every single person who engages with you to catalogue their, by your extensive definition, "troll posts" :confused:

[DeathsSilkyMist]

dsm do you actually go through the entire post history of every single person who engages with you to catalogue their, by your extensive definition, "troll posts"

The examples I gave in my previous post were from this thread. You don't need to look further for those posters.

My definition of trolling is just the basic definition of trolling. It is not custom or "extensive". Are you suggesting any of the quotes from my previous post https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3664134&postcount=310 are not troll posts?

[Snaggles]

Clinging is however currently the same aggro as a shadow vortex or shroud of hate. (edit: Oh you mentioned stat taps. I've tested it. You get full aggro for "didn't take hold" and "immune to changes in runspeed" too.)

It's too bad about DC. There are patch notes (after our era) about slow first getting moved to disease, then slow having too much aggro and that aggro getting fixed. I assume that's where DC's aggro should be nerfed, and that it's a bug that it's nerfed on p99.

I'm basing this only on my own experience trying to rip aggro with ensnare in slot one using a GCD compared to flame lick. Often for general running around I'll have snare up and not flame lick. In one instance it took like 8 snares to peel a HoT mini on to my ranger once the warrior dropped.

I havent done much grouping with my SK on p99. On live Clinging was my workhorse and seemed to be ok. It's technically just not nearly the hit that an AC debuff is like Shadow Vortex. Even for a warrior that uses proc weapons limited to the "max threshold" the snare whip proc is rather low compared to say a Frostbringer. This is likely a case for people to just gauge as they go, I really doubt most sks can keep aggro primarily using Clinging off a geared rogue at 60. Good to have a few big spell taunts on the bar just incase you need them.

Snare/root component is pretty low aggro, the damage is basically threat if it lands. For some reason ac/attk taps or debuffs, slows, blinds, poison counters, if cast all get you to a pretty high level of hate. Formerly disease counters too. It's also why spells like druid swarm or necro/sk blood dots are low threat...they are basically the darkness line w/o the snare component.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'm basing this only on my own experience trying to rip aggro with ensnare in slot one using a GCD compared to flame lick. Often for general running around I'll have snare up and not flame lick. In one instance it took like 8 snares to peel a HoT mini on to my ranger once the warrior dropped.

I havent done much grouping with my SK on p99. On live Clinging was my workhorse and seemed to be ok. It's technically just not nearly the hit that an AC debuff is like Shadow Vortex. Even for a warrior that uses proc weapons limited to the "max threshold" the snare whip proc is rather low compared to say a Frostbringer. This is likely a case for people to just gauge as they go, I really doubt most sks can keep aggro primarily using Clinging off a geared rogue at 60. Good to have a few big spell taunts on the bar just incase you need them.

Yeah I typically have Clinging, Shroud of Hate, and Shadow Vortex on bar so I have enough spells when needed. Clinging costs less, so it's good to use if you just barely lost agro due to white damage. Shroud of pain can be put on bar too, but it costs more mana than all the other spells, so I only do that if I really need to.

[Vivitron]

Snare (clinging)/stun/ac debuff/atk debuff/slow/root are all 100% equal aggro to eachother on the current patch.

[Toxigen]

root aint equal all you gotta do is stand the closest

[Vivitron]

Nope. Equal on this patch.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Nope. Equal on this patch.

Being the closest player to a rooted mob means said rooted mob will always attack you, regardless of where you are on the agro list. That's what he is referring to.

[Vivitron]

Being the closest player to a rooted mob means said rooted mob will always attack you, regardless of where you are on the agro list. That's what he is referring to.

Oh yeah it does that too.

[Snaggles]

Snare (clinging)/stun/ac debuff/atk debuff/slow/root are all 100% equal aggro to eachother on the current patch.

I'll try it but expect its garbage aggro. Or any sk can give it a crack, if so Clinging is the new DC and shadow vortex doesnt give ya anything but a bit of AC on a short timer.

[Jimjam]

I don't like macroing abilities together because the macro button doesn't stay "greyed out" when on cooldown the same way, say, Bash does just by itself. I do use bash "strategically" when battling spellcasters, as any knight should, so I like having the visual reference. That's just personal preference, of course, and other folks can and do use other setups and do fine.

You can look at the abilities window or another hotkey for reference if the button is greyed out, but yeah I get that.

[Duik]

Who was it that said on page < 15 "See ya on page 30"? Tox or crede?
Good call nobody!

Tbh. It could be ANY thread DSM waffles on in.
DSM: Doubts Systematic Methodologies.

[Samoht]

So besides spamming the taunt button, was there any consensus on what spells the SK should use to keep aggro? Seems like they all suck now.

[Ripqozko]

So besides spamming the taunt button, was there any consensus on what spells the SK should use to keep aggro? Seems like they all suck now.

shadow vortex, shroud of hate, clinging. if you spam those spells any really you wont lose aggro.

[Gloomlord]

So, are they going to fix disease cloud?

Who am I kidding? They're not even making a new server. Of course it won't be fixed...

[Ripqozko]

So, are they going to fix disease cloud?

Who am I kidding? They're not even making a new server. Of course it won't be fixed...

Doesn’t matter if they do or not, tbh it hurt warriors more as it limited their proc weapon choices.

[Snaggles]

shadow vortex, shroud of hate, clinging. if you spam those spells any really you wont lose aggro.

Do you see a difference in aggro between clinging and SV and spells of that nature? Per a poster there should be no difference. It would be nice for mana savings and since sticking snare on stuff at a point is almost impossible.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Doesn’t matter if they do or not, tbh it hurt warriors more as it limited their proc weapon choices.

Agreed. I haven't missed DC too much. I have flowing thought items, clickies, and a big enough mana pool. The 20 mana cost of Clinging isn't the end of the world in the endgame, especially if you have C2.

It hurts lower level SK's more, since saving mana is harder without good gear and clickies.

Do you see a difference in aggro between clinging and SV and spells of that nature? Per a poster there should be no difference. It would be nice for mana savings and since sticking snare on stuff at a point is almost impossible.

I haven't tested it enough to give a definitive answer. Clinging does flip mobs back to me, so it's working for sure. I don't remember needing to switch to Shadow Vortex or Shroud of Pain consistently to get agro back. I'll cast those spells if I want to get agro back faster and not have to wait for clinging to pop back up. Or if I want to gain agro on something without applying a DoT, like on mezed mobs.

[Ripqozko]

Do you see a difference in aggro between clinging and SV and spells of that nature? Per a poster there should be no difference. It would be nice for mana savings and since sticking snare on stuff at a point is almost impossible.

Idk since I cast only 2 clinging in most teams less someone is super anxious to rip aggro. I don’t have issues and if it’s a longer harder mob I usually have mana for the other stuff cause buffs.

Edit I also have tuna sword tho so I get root proc and good white dmg.

[Sizar]

I spam taunt tanking all the time, also spam clinging darkness / shadow vortex. With Narandi / Potg / C2 I never run outta mana and the only time i lose aggro is to someone's low health. Spamming taunt, while unnecessary maybe, gives me something to push. Who cares dudes, Just spam or don't spam away

[Snaggles]

Idk since I cast only 2 clinging in most teams less someone is super anxious to rip aggro. I don’t have issues and if it’s a longer harder mob I usually have mana for the other stuff cause buffs.

Edit I also have tuna sword tho so I get root proc and good white dmg.

Yea plus the root dynamic.

I might have to try out SV vs Clinging sometimes with the derves in in WC.

You do bring up a good point. Having a really solid ratio 2h between casts gives far more swing aggro than a 1h. I do use 1h on occasion but you have to work harder for that same threat. At scout once another pally sent a tell asking how I held aggro over him trying to peel. It was the Rocksmasher vs the epic.

[Vivitron]

Yea plus the root dynamic.

I might have to try out SV vs Clinging sometimes with the derves in in WC.

You do bring up a good point. Having a really solid ratio 2h between casts gives far more swing aggro than a 1h. I do use 1h on occasion but you have to work harder for that same threat. At scout once another pally sent a tell asking how I held aggro over him trying to peel. It was the Rocksmasher vs the epic.

Another piece of the resent patch is these spells aggro scales on the hp of the target up to a cap, so be prepared to be disappointed on the dervs compared to white aggro.

[Snaggles]

Another piece of the resent patch is these spells aggro scales on the hp of the target up to a cap, so be prepared to be disappointed on the dervs compared to white aggro.

I dont see why this wouldnt work:

Derv A: Shaman casts 10 slows, SK casts __# of SV's until it rips.
Derv B: Shaman casts 10 slows, SK casts __# of Clinging's until it rips.

Or someone else can figure it out. I dont group or raid with my sk.

[Troxx]

What an idiot. Guy really said spamming taunt is BETTER than using it appropriately ROFL

We got ourselves another DSM thread.

Lol.

30+ pages of extra horse shit since I last posted.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

We got ourselves another DSM thread.

Lol.

30+ pages of extra horse shit since I last posted.

Why bother posting this? You haven't disproven anything I have said, and you look like a troll at the same time. You're doing yourself and the community zero favors. You're also not hurting me. Keep this in RnF please.

[Troxx]

Lol this is my first post since page 2. The last 32 pages has been all you man.

Congrats on ruining another thread.

Spamming taunt when you’re at the top of the threat list is stupid.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Lol this is my first post since page 2. The last 32 pages has been all you man.

Congrats on ruining another thread.

Spamming taunt when you’re at the top of the threat list is stupid.

Saying something is stupid is not an arguement. Come back when you have an argument. I am sorry you think having a discussion is a problem on a forum.

Troll posts like this are the only problem here.

[Troxx]

I understand this button is a lot less crucial for knights but damn … this isn’t rocket surgery. If you’re already at the top of the aggro list, it does nothing. If you constantly spam it there’s a one in six chance you won’t have it up the instant you need it most … with a 1-5 second wait before you can use it again. If it fails the first time, you now have a 7-11 second wait for the second taunt instead of a faster 6 second 2nd attempt.

That’s why it is stupid.

I stated the “why” 32 pages ago. Regardless, no amount of logic or reason will ever convince you of anything once you have dug in a position. Heck, we’ve since had 32 pages of people trying.

This is the perfect example of a “DSM Thread”.

This is a weird hill to die on. Arguably your stupidest ever … and that is saying a lot.

[Penish]

Why bother posting this? You haven't disproven anything I have said, and you look like a troll at the same time. You're doing yourself and the community zero favors. You're also not hurting me. Keep this in RnF please.

literally 25 or so people have disproven you in this thread, congrats retard

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That’s why it is stupid.

I stated the “why” 32 pages ago. Regardless, no amount of logic or reason will ever convince you of anything once you have dug in a position. Heck, we’ve since had 32 pages of people trying.

This is the perfect example of a “DSM Thread”.

This is a weird hill to die on. Arguably your stupidest ever … and that is saying a lot.

I already factually disproved all of the arguments you made on page 2 here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3663640&postcount=140

What else do you have argument-wise? So far "you are stupid" is all you have, which is irrelevant.

[Troxx]

https://y.yarn.co/9ba2e745-3a30-44f7-9607-9dd399908ac5_text.gif

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://y.yarn.co/9ba2e745-3a30-44f7-9607-9dd399908ac5_text.gif

Exactly. You provide no counter points and just troll. Please stop. It is ok to be wrong.

[Crede]

Exactly. You provide no counter points and just troll. Please stop. It is ok to be wrong.

Correction. You failed to provide any evidence that spam taunt is worth the ~5% it will actually succeed and fire at the exact moment you need it.

It’s odd that you claim 170 str is “good enough” on your monk denouncing the dps gains that would come from more str yet you think somehow that ~5% taunt chance has any actual value.

This is your fundamental flaw and it’s why you can’t win any debates. You throw random pieces of data at the wall and hope it sticks, but you simply lack the ability to formulate truly effective arguments. There’s a reason lawyers have paralegals. Leave the actual arguments for the big boys.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Correction. You failed to provide any evidence that spam taunt is worth the ~5% it will actually succeed and fire at the exact moment you need it.

It’s odd that you claim 170 str is “good enough” on your monk denouncing the dps gains that would come from more str yet you think somehow that ~5% taunt chance has any actual value.

This is your fundamental flaw and it’s why you can’t win any debates. You throw random pieces of data at the wall and hope it sticks, but you simply lack the ability to formulate truly effective arguments. There’s a reason lawyers have paralegals. Leave the actual arguments for the big boys.

I provided plenty of evidence already:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3663640&postcount=140

Simply claiming I haven't provided anything is irrelevant. It's factually incorrect. You have nothing to counter my points.

So far I am winning the debate. You simply are unable to concede or provide an argument.

You are strawmanning what I said about STR too, which is pretty common behavior from you. It's very funny that you think I am denouncing DPS gains. Comparing the pros and cons of starting stats is not denouncing DPS gains from STR lol. Its looking at which gains are better in the context of starting stats.

[Troxx]

So far I am winning the debate.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/BhaqiosBtQJvW/giphy.gif

[bcbrown]

I already factually disproved all of the arguments you made on page 2 here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3663640&postcount=140.

Troxx is arguing that using taunt strategically is better than spamming it:
If you constantly spam it there’s a one in six chance you won’t have it up the instant you need it most … with a 1-5 second wait before you can use it again. If it fails the first time, you now have a 7-11 second wait for the second taunt instead of a faster 6 second 2nd attempt.

In that post, you explicitly concede that the approach Troxx prefers is more optimal:
Nobody is disagreeing with the fact that spamming taunt has a lower chance of success on the first taunt, including myself. Nor have I ever argued otherwise

[Troxx]

I’m glad someone (other than me) finally pointed that out …

https://media0.giphy.com/media/BhaqiosBtQJvW/giphy.gif

Will DSM concede??

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Troxx is arguing that using taunt strategically is better than spamming it:

In that post, you explicitly concede that the approach Troxx prefers is more optimal:

Cool. Nobody is making a counter argument to that point. I cannot concede an argument I never made. Please stop lying about my arguments. Repeating strawmen over and over is not a valid way to win an argument.

If you want to claim you won a debate nobody was having, that doesn't seem like much of an accomplishment.

My argument has been to rebut this statement made by Troxx and others:


I understand this button is a lot less crucial for knights but damn … this isn’t rocket surgery. If you’re already at the top of the aggro list, it [taunt] does nothing.

Saying spamming taunt does nothing is factually incorrect, and I have disproven it utterly:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3663640&postcount=140

I have been consistent since page 2:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3661899&postcount=14

I also admitted a few of my later posts were worded poorly.

I am not sure why people want to deny that spamming taunt has it's uses. Knowing your options for using taunt is a good thing.

[bcbrown]

Saying spamming taunt does nothing is factually incorrect, and I have disproven it utterly.

You've really made this many posts, and the entirety of your argument is the fact that hitting taunt when you're already at the top of the aggro list adds one hate? Plus some miniscule chance you happen to hit it right when aggro flips?

That's your entire argument? No one disputes hitting aggro adds one hate. No one. No one ever has.

If you continue to insist Troxx doesn't mean "does nothing useful", it is you who unable to apply nuance to someone's argument.

No one cares about +1 hate, and you have given no reason why anyone should.

[Crede]

Cool. Nobody is making a counter argument to that point. I cannot concede an argument I never made. Please stop lying about my arguments. Repeating strawmen over and over is not a valid way to win an argument.

If you want to claim you won a debate nobody was having, that doesn't seem like much of an accomplishment.

My argument has been to rebut this statement made by Troxx and others:



Saying spamming taunt does nothing is factually incorrect, and I have disproven it utterly:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3663640&postcount=140

I have been consistent since page 2:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3661899&postcount=14

I also admitted a few of my later posts were worded poorly.

I am not sure why people want to deny that spamming taunt has it's uses. Knowing your options for using taunt is a good thing.

Dsm thinking he “won” because troxx said “nothing” even though even troxx knows It does “Something”. Its simply not enough to use it over strategic taunting, which is the entire point of this thread.

The desperation here to win is quite sad.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You've really made this many posts

My posts wouldn't have been necessary if trolls weren't spamming the thread. Don't blame me for your bad behavior and the behavior of others.


the entirety of your argument is the fact that hitting taunt when you're already at the top of the aggro list adds one hate? Plus some miniscule chance you happen to hit it right when aggro flips?

That's your entire argument? No one disputes hitting aggro adds one hate. No one. No one ever has.


Yes. When you say "spamming taunt does nothing", you omit relevant information. You cannot assume everybody knows the information.

Spamming taunt gives you +1 agro every 6 seconds and an 8.33% chance to taunt automatically.

Putting taunt on a macro you are already spamming will factually generate more agro than a player who never presses taunt. Two posters in this thread have admitted to not using taunt at all.

You benefit from spamming taunt if you are leveling up the skill.

The opportunity cost for missing a single taunt is low, due to the skills unreliable nature and 6 second cooldown.

These are all basic facts about taunt, and there is no reason why people should be trying to spend 30 pages denying them.


No one cares about +1 hate, and you have given no reason why anyone should.

Your opinion about what people care about is irrelevant. Give people the correct information and let them decide what to do with it.

Dsm thinking he “won” because troxx said “nothing” even though even troxx knows It does “Something”. Its simply not enough to use it over strategic taunting, which is the entire point of this thread.

The desperation here to win is quite sad.

That doesn't make any sense. If Troxx knows the basic facts about taunt, he wouldn't be disagreeing with me. He wouldn't say "it does nothing". That isn't helpful to people who don't know everything about taunt.

I am not sure why you keep claiming "the entire point of the thread is X". OP is asking about agro generation. I am giving them information on agro generation. You are not OP, so I am not sure why you keep trying to force the thread in whatever you direction you think it is supposed to be in. That is the only desperation I see. You are just moving the goalposts to seem correct.

[Troxx]

https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/34/19/558514918-Grasping-at-Straws.jpg

[Crede]

Your opinion about what people care about is irrelevant. Give people the correct information and let them decide what to do with it.

We are giving people the correct information. +1 aggro every 6 seconds literally will not make a difference in your ability to hold aggro. It’s you who keeps spreading false data in order to try to “win” pretending like +1 aggro every 6 seconds is somehow significant.

Honestly this feels like borderline bannable information being spread.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

We are giving people the correct information. +1 aggro every 6 seconds literally will not make a difference in your ability to hold aggro. It’s you who keeps spreading false data in order to try to “win” pretending like +1 aggro every 6 seconds is somehow significant.

Honestly this feels like borderline bannable information being spread.

+1 agro generation and an 8.33% chance to automatically taunt is better than never pressing taunt at all.

I am not sure why you cannot agree to this basic logic.

It is amazing that you think saying a fact is a bannable offense. You are blatantly ignoring all the trolling that has been going on in this thread, which is actually against the rules (and could get you banned).


Trolling
If you must troll another user, keep it contained to Rants and Flames. Don’t over do it.

Forum accounts created for the sole purpose of trolling are not allowed.

We encourage you to list your in-game characters in your signature so other forum users may know who your characters are in game. Its no fun reading posts from AnonymousForumTroll01 without knowing who they are in game, and this does not foster community growth.

[Samoht]

Dsm thinking he “won” because troxx said “nothing” even though even troxx knows It does “Something”. Its simply not enough to use it over strategic taunting, which is the entire point of this thread.

The desperation here to win is quite sad.

DSM wins every time you hit the reply button. Learn some self control.

I didn’t see anybody answer my question on what spells an SK should be using. Did it get spammed out?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM wins every time you hit the reply button. Learn some self control.

I didn’t see anybody answer my question on what spells an SK should be using. Did it get spammed out?

Unfortunately the trolls did spam it out. I agree they are a problem. People should be calling them out to stop this nonsense, but it isn't happening. They seem to be fine with ignoring it and letting it continue.

To answer your question, Clinging Darkness, Shroud of Hate, and Shadow Vortex are generally the three best options. You can use Shroud of Pain as well if you can fit 4 agro spells on to your bar, but I find Shroud of Pain usually isn't necessary, and it is the most expensive of the aforementioned spells.

Shadow Vortex and Shroud of Hate do not break Mez, so they are great at building up an agro buffer before you break Mez. Clinging Darkness is the cheapest mana-wise, so you should default to that if you aren't worried about dotting the mob. You can always Cast Shroud of Hate or Shadow Vortex right after Clinging Darkness if you can't wait for the recast timer to finish.

[Guesty07]

+1 agro generation and an 8.33% chance to automatically taunt is better than never pressing taunt at all.

I am not sure why you cannot agree to this basic logic.

It is amazing that you think saying a fact is a bannable offense. You are blatantly ignoring all the trolling that has been going on in this thread, which is actually against the rules (and could get you banned).


Why would somebody "never press taunt at all"?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Why would somebody "never press taunt at all"?

Ask Snaggles and Toxigen, two people who say they don't use taunt at all.

[Guesty07]

You were replying to Crede

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You were replying to Crede

I fail to see how me replying to Crede is relevant to your question. I gave you two exmaples of posters who don't use taunt at all. You can ask them why. Clearly these players do exist.

[Guesty07]

Maybe because Crede (and most people in this thread) never said that spamming taunt is worse than NEVER PRESSING THE BUTTON AT ALL EVER.

[Snaggles]

I’ve never needed it and it was one more button to crowd my button bar. There are times I’ll use it for mez breaks but only if I don’t trust the enchanter or healer, lol.

If I did make it part of my normal routine I would personally choose to use it selectively when it is noticeably beneficial.

I have a digitial caliper I also seldom use. If I needed to chip ice for some home bartending I guess it would work for that. It wouldn’t be worse than not using it or any other makeshift tool to chip ice. Does that mean I’ll misuse a tool because it will inefficiently solve my problem? No. I’d rather just deal with generic cube ice than look, well, crazy..

[Jimjam]

I’m trying to decide whether you guys are spam taunting DSM, DSM is spam taunting you or it is some kind of weird mutual thing going on.

[Gloomlord]

More like our exasperation with him taunting us, then we're causing high threat/hate via his triggering a psychosis where he's unable to admit he's wrong.

[Penish]

More like our exasperation with him taunting us, then we're causing high threat/hate via his triggering a psychosis where he's unable to admit he's wrong.

lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Maybe because Crede (and most people in this thread) never said that spamming taunt is worse than NEVER PRESSING THE BUTTON AT ALL EVER.

Great! It sounds like you agree with me. I am not sure why you are arguing with me then. There should be no problem with me posting the facts about taunt and letting people decide how they want to use it. You haven't provided any evidence to suggest spamming taunt has a significant downside, and you agree a person like Snaggles (who rarely uses taunt because it takes up too much space on bar) would get more mileage out of taunt if he assigned it to a macro he was already spamming. It provides a boost to agro generation with no extra effort in that case.

[Troxx]

I have never seen any tank who understood how taunt actually works ever advocate for spamming it whenever it’s up.

Ever.

This is more of a warrior issue to be honest. Knights don’t really need the button. Only time I really use it on my paladin is right before I break a mez, and then (on mez break) always right before I cast a threat spell for that chance at top aggro + 1 before the spell lands for a slingshot beyond top aggro. If taunt fails I usually just break anyways and cast another threat spell as needed.

Having it bound to a hot key can get you into trouble. If you’re on a raid and not the designated tank, eventually you’re gonna cause a problem, take damage you didn’t need to, or flip a mob and piss off the rogues.

I’d argue it is better to never press taunt than to autistically smash it every time it is up.

I swear this may be THE MOST retarded 30+ pages to be found on these forums.

[Jimjam]

Yet. Most retorted thread yet.

[Guesty07]

I have never seen any tank who understood how taunt actually works ever advocate for spamming it whenever it’s up.

Ever.

This is more of a warrior issue to be honest. Knights don’t really need the button. Only time I really use it on my paladin is right before I break a mez, and then (on mez break) always right before I cast a threat spell for that chance at top aggro + 1 before the spell lands for a slingshot beyond top aggro. If taunt fails I usually just break anyways and cast another threat spell as needed.

Having it bound to a hot key can get you into trouble. If you’re on a raid and not the designated tank, eventually you’re gonna cause a problem, take damage you didn’t need to, or flip a mob and piss off the rogues.

I’d argue it is better to never press taunt than to autistically smash it every time it is up.

I swear this may be THE MOST retarded 30+ pages to be found on these forums.


He really doesn't know how to play the game does he

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have never seen any tank who understood how taunt actually works ever advocate for spamming it whenever it’s up.


Argument from authority fallacy. Irrelevant.


This is more of a warrior issue to be honest. Knights don’t really need the button.


Correct. This is one reason why the opportunity cost for spamming taunt is very low. You aren't relying on Taunt to begin with. Taunt's 6 second cooldown allows you to switch between spamming and strategic usages whenever you want. The opportunity cost is one missed Taunt in the worst case. Best case is you land the Taunt at the correct time anyway.


Having bound to a hot key can get you into trouble. If you’re on a raid and not the designated tank, eventually you’re gonna cause a problem, take damage you didn’t need to, or flip a mob and piss off the rogues.

I’d argue it is better to never press taunt than to autistically smash it every time it is up.

I swear this may be THE MOST retarded 30+ pages to be found on these forums.

Nobody is suggesting you should use taunt when you aren't trying to get agro. If you have enough self control to not press the Taunt button in a raid, you have enough self control to not press a macro with taunt on it. You do know that you can make multiple macros and use different hotkey pages?

Please stop using autism as a slur. It really isn't helping you.

He really doesn't know how to play the game does he

You agreed with me in your previous post. Why do you keep trolling and making yourself look bad? You aren't hurting me.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You are one of the worst trolls on these forums. You're a detriment to anyone actually looking for valuable information. If staff cared about such things you'd be banned from the forums. Sadly they don't.

You have nothing to back up this claim. I provide information backed up by logic and evidence. You can check what I am saying in game yourself. Conversely, all 5 of your posts in this thread are actual troll behavior, and contribute nothing to the conversation. You are the one breaking the forum rules, so I am not sure why you think I am the one getting banned here.

You have blatantly ignored the real trolling behavior that has been happening in this thread. This shows you aren't trying to call out troll behavior. Either you cannot recognize actual troll behavior, or you are specifically choosing to ignore it. Regardless of which scenario is the truth, your opinion becomes irrelevant because of it.

[Penish]

You guys know DSM is actually handicapped right? /shrug I dont even see how this is fun anymore, its kind of sad 8)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You guys know DSM is actually handicapped right? /shrug I dont even see how this is fun anymore, its kind of sad 8)

Incorrect. Also, avoid playing with Penish. He actually lies about his intentions when playing with you in game. He will try to record you with the specific purpose of trying to catch you making a mistake.

[Penish]

Incorrect. Also, avoid playing with Penish. He actually lies about his intentions when playing with you in game. He will try to record you with the specific purpose of trying to catch you making a mistake.

yeah says the guy who cant solo four KC mobs on a velious geared shaman, let me cringe into outer space

also welcome anyone else willing to watch this nutjob play any class, its worth a lawl

[Guesty07]

Guildies must be proud

[DeathsSilkyMist]

yeah says the guy who cant solo four KC mobs on a velious geared shaman, let me cringe into outer space

also welcome anyone else willing to watch this nutjob play any class, its worth a lawl

Continuing to lie isn't helping you lol.

[Crede]

Argument from authority fallacy. Irrelevant

Yet somehow he claims his own experience with taunt is relevant for this thread, despite being frequently called out for his lack of skill.

LOL

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yet somehow he claims his own experience with taunt is relevant for this thread, despite being frequently called out for his lack of skill.

LOL

Continuing to troll and show you cannot read other people's posts is also not helping you.

[Toxigen]

this is the new face of kittens

[DeathsSilkyMist]

this is the new face of kittens

The only people digging themselves deeper are people who post nonsense like this. It isn't hurting me. You are just making it easier for people to see your bad behavior.

Please stop attacking other guilds because you disagree with someone. All you are doing is showing that you are willing to lie about posters and guilds at the same time. It doesn't help you or your arguments.

[Toxigen]

meow

[Philistine]

this is the new face of kittens

DSM is a fine Kitten and we're glad to have him.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM is a fine Kitten and we're glad to have him.

Thanks! It's great to be in Kittens.

[Troxx]

meow

lol

made me spit out my coffee

[MaskedFrog]

Taunt has a 6 second cooldown. Taunt will also go on cooldown if you attempt to use it on a mob that has run out of range, such as if the mob is running towards your cleric.

If the mob ran out of range, you want to use a snap agro spell since it can be cast outside of melee range. You have a better chance of success, and the 6 second cooldown on taunt will be back up by then.

If the mob is in range, such as turning to face the rogue, you still want to use snap agro to try and build a buffer. If the rogue is at the top of the hate list often, the rogue will simply return to the top of the list shortly after a successful taunt anyway. The issue at that point is either how the rogue is playing, or how you (the tank) is playing. It isn't an issue of if you are saving taunt or not.

Remember that taunt is unreliable. It isn't your primary method of agro generation.

I just wanted to chime in on saying spamming taunt when you know no one will immediately pull is good advice. Especially in a group with pets. You are working in conjunction with the pet to generate more hate than you would alone. Your casters will appreciate this if they like to nuke heavy early and often instead of just once a mob. Even if it is not up when the mob runs away often times you are better to stand there and cast a hate generating spell than you are to try to chase it and miss a taunt because of range issues.

[Elizondo]

I just wanted to chime in on saying spamming taunt when you know no one will immediately pull is good advice. Especially in a group with pets. You are working in conjunction with the pet to generate more hate than you would alone. Your casters will appreciate this if they like to nuke heavy early and often instead of just once a mob. Even if it is not up when the mob runs away often times you are better to stand there and cast a hate generating spell than you are to try to chase it and miss a taunt because of range issues.

DSM trying to bolster his 'argument' with an alt account

Comical and Embarrassing

[Crede]

DSM trying to bolster his 'argument' with an alt account

Comical and Embarrassing

lol. It does look highly suspect

[Duik]

This thread has been Froglocked.

[MaskedFrog]

DSM trying to bolster his 'argument' with an alt account

Comical and Embarrassing

Yeah he sat in the shadows for 5 whole years just to make this one post.

[Gloomlord]

Forgive us for being a little suspicious of him, then, if you're truly innocent.

[Troxx]

I had come to the same conclusion. Account join date 2018. 4 total posts ever all in the last 5ish weeks and half of them in this thread.

Smells/smelled fishy and I assumed it was DSM agreeing with himself.

[Ripqozko]

inb4 dsm disagrees and makes some long ass paragraphs of replies

[Infectious]

inb4 dsm disagrees and makes some long ass paragraphs of replies

We're only 40 pages deep, he has alot of proof to show still.

[chandler5]

Clinging Darkness, Shroud of Hate, and Shadow Vortex are your three main spells. I don't think the higher level snares generate enough extra agro to justify the mana cost.

Shroud of Hate and Shadow Vortex do not break Mez. They are what you use when you want to frontload agro into a Mezed mob.

You can use all three on a mob when a group member is trying really hard to get agro. I usually have all three memed in a group.

Also use Taunt and Disarm. Those generate agro too. I have a macro that activates both at the same time.

Switching to a fast 1h weapon and shield will increase your agro generation if your group doesn't need the extra DPS from a 2h weapon.

Weapon procs help as well if you have them. But you generally don't need to go out of your way to buy and bag a high agro proc weapon. If a group member is pulling agro after using everything else mentioned above, that group member is probably doing something wrong. Or they are extremely well geared/buffed.
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[Duik]

Like a Cha buff. But for realsies.
I'd still look like a zombie left out in da sun.

A Surgeon begins casting: Eye(bag) Of Zomm.
You look 12yrs older.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I just wanted to chime in on saying spamming taunt when you know no one will immediately pull is good advice. Especially in a group with pets. You are working in conjunction with the pet to generate more hate than you would alone. Your casters will appreciate this if they like to nuke heavy early and often instead of just once a mob. Even if it is not up when the mob runs away often times you are better to stand there and cast a hate generating spell than you are to try to chase it and miss a taunt because of range issues.

Good point!

[Duik]

Masked frog is like Kermit. They both have someone elses hand in their arse.