Why don't female humanoid player models have the casual standing pose?

[Ooloo]

I realized all the male PC models in the game have a "weapons ready" standing pose and a relaxed casual friday "chillen" standing pose (if you duck and stand back up without moving that's the one I mean). However humans, barbarians, and all the elf races don't have a relaxed standing pose if it's a female model. I've always wondered if they just forgot to build out those poses or if they did and they were somehow omitted by accident or something? Did brad forget to take his pills that day?

Now I want to see what it would look like. Somebody photoshop it so I don't have to do it myself to satisfy my pointless but very intense curiosity to see what it would look like.

[Troxx]

I always wondered about this as well.

[Ooloo]

I actually do have a theory and it's really sad and perverted if true, but remember this game was made by giant antisocial nerds:

They wanted the female human, barb and elves to be hot looking, and their asses wouldn't stick out so much in that casual standing pose with that particular wireframe they all share, so they just left it out. That's why female ogres and trolls and halflings *do* get casual standing poses, because they weren't supposed to be softcore porn for teenage nerds. Not that my female halfling druid isn't very sexually desirable mind you.

I have no evidence at all but I'm pretty much 100% sure that's why.

[onomoon]

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. Fem gnomes and dorfs too. It's a big reason why I play smol races only, not because I don't want my elfsim avatars to be babes but I love the relaxed standing position so much more than the awkward perma-T-Rex stance. Let me appreciate my bracers / gloves plz

[Toxigen]

asking the big questions here today boys

[Seducio]

I was in Fools Gold the other day selling some wares and I overheard a drunk rogue who was at the craps tables spilling the beans about the desperate housewives of rivervale. Apparently they have a thing for adventurers with big feet.

Keep your shoes on boys

[Ooloo]

asking the big questions here today boys

Lol look when you play the same game for like 25 years looking at the same graphics all the time you start asking the burning questions. It's high level stuff see.

[magnetaress]

Because the devs ran out of time to animate more.

I think they did their favorite models first. The ones they are most proud of. So that is why only the super cool races got love.

[magnetaress]

Ever notice questing in grobb and RV and kaladim is the best too?

[greatdane]

A woman's work is never done.

That's why they get paid less!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It was probably overlooked and never finished because they were working on the new character models for Luclin. It wouldn't have been a high priority to maintain the original models since they knew they would be replacing them anyway.

[Gustoo]

This is a good thread.

[TrevarianX]

Butt Quarters: the game within the game.

I actually do have a theory and it's really sad and perverted if true, but remember this game was made by giant antisocial nerds:

They wanted the female human, barb and elves to be hot looking, and their asses wouldn't stick out so much in that casual standing pose with that particular wireframe they all share, so they just left it out. That's why female ogres and trolls and halflings *do* get casual standing poses, because they weren't supposed to be softcore porn for teenage nerds. Not that my female halfling druid isn't very sexually desirable mind you.

I have no evidence at all but I'm pretty much 100% sure that's why.

[Ooloo]

Hey I'm just saying my theory is probably completely correct.

Also why would luclin have made a difference? I'm talking about the original vanilla models that launched with the boxed retail game in 1999 (aka the ones you're supposed to use on p99), before they even knew they were gonna make the first expansion much less the 3rd.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Hey I'm just saying my theory is probably completely correct.

Also why would luclin have made a difference? I'm talking about the original vanilla models that launched with the boxed retail game in 1999 (aka the ones you're supposed to use on p99), before they even knew they were gonna make the first expansion much less the 3rd.

For a live service game you are generally planning things out in advance. There was only a 2.5ish year gap between the release of classic and Luclin.

The development team will know what the road map to Luclin is long before it actually comes out. Back then we were in the graphics wars, where every game wanted to look more and more realistic. I wouldn't be surprised at all if graphics improvements were being planned from the start. If they knew they were going to update the character models in the near future anyway, they would de-prioritize maintaining the existing models that are going to get replaced.

[Danth]

What I read someplace from folks who claimed to be nearby when it went down--can't vouch for its accuracy--was that Verant scrapped the female idle animation when one of the higher-ups, perhaps McQuaid himself, didn't like them. Then due to the game's unexpected success and rapid pace of development, they never got back to re-doing 'em.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

What I read someplace from folks who claimed to be nearby when it went down--can't vouch for its accuracy--was that Verant scrapped the female idle animation when one of the higher-ups, perhaps McQuaid himself, didn't like them. Then due to the game's unexpected success and rapid pace of development, they never got back to re-doing 'em.

That would make sense to me. Interesting!

[Ooloo]

For a live service game you are generally planning things out in advance. There was only a 2.5ish year gap between the release of classic and Luclin.

The development team will know what the road map to Luclin is long before it actually comes out. Back then we were in the graphics wars, where every game wanted to look more and more realistic. I wouldn't be surprised at all if graphics improvements were being planned from the start. If they knew they were going to update the character models in the near future anyway, they would de-prioritize maintaining the existing models that are going to get replaced.

I'm mainly going off of first-hand testimony by members of the original dev team on that alovingrobot guy's youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFl_3ktLNPYUeicLmhSvB1Q). Many have said they didn't even expect the initial success, much less making one and then another expansion. And then a *third* expansion on top of the first two, which is when the models finally changed to the horrid luclin versions.

Brad didn't like that the chicks' asses didn't stick out as much when they stand up straight like the male models do. I'm tellin you, that is definitely the reason. I mean I think they even said in one of those podcasts the artists were using pictures of underwear models for the female dark elves. These men were shameful perverts.

[Ooloo]

Also fun fact I learned on that podcast that they were originally going to have all five continents finished at launch, but they only had three done (really more like 2.5 sorry odus) so that's what shipped. But they had a pretty rich design doc for kunark written, and it was just kinda shelved because the game shipped already. Then when it turned out they needed an expansion, they just pulled out the kunark design doc and made what would have been in the original game (minus the slight graphical improvements that happened in the meantime) anyway.

Velious on the other hand I don't think they had anything designed or planned for yet ahead of time other than the name and the drawing of it on the original map.

[Ennewi]

Have yet to see anything about the absence of idle animations, but here's some insight as to why female bards don't perform the dance while playing a horn/flute...

https://web.archive.org/web/20010727163126/http://pub13.ezboard.com/fbrellserilismeleetalk.showMessage?topicID=308.top ic

Sepherenia
Adventurer of Underfoot
Posts: 101
(1/22/01 8:05:06 am)

Time to make bards look better
I think it's past time that VI makes us look better. By that I mean, ever noticed what a bard looks like when they are running with percussion? The best way I describe it, is like a running festering hag from unrest sans the outstretched arms. LOL! Well? It's the truth. Even Jimwise used to tease me about how very silly I looked when running with my drum.

VI has taken the time to remove the "unintended" effect of selos to resist root when cast on us. I do still notice I am slower without my instrument post their latest patch when running with just selo's accelerado. So I do think we still took a bit of a nerf there.

If these programmers have all this extra time on their hands, hey why not make it so that the female bards do that cute little dance when playing a flute/wind instrument like all the male bards do. Anyone ever notice that? The male bard is going to town doing a little jig there, and here we are, all us female bards standing stiff as a board blowing into the flute every tick. What's up with that? hehe

I think if VI has all this extra time to devote to "fixing" this "unintended effect", and then knowingly introducing a known bugged code into our songs and then treating us all like red headed stepchildren and informing us that "it's merely an inconvenience, deal with it until the next patch", then I figure they can take the time to give us the actions that the male bards already have.

There are tons of emotes that show the action, ie - wave, blush, laugh, snicker, beg, plead, whine, ect...
Why not have it so when we are playing an instrument we are dancing, and even add a bit of music to it when we are playing too?

Sepherenia Crystalwind
53 minstrel - Ethos
"The only way to have a good friend is to be one."

Hethral
/r Where's the corpse.
Posts: 900
(1/22/01 11:51:17 am)

Re: Time to make bards look better
I think they said the animation file was a 20+ meg download, and people probably wouldn't be happy about downloading a replacement one for new bard animations. I remember it being brought up on the official boards quite a few months ago.

In the time it took you to beg for that gold piece you could have killed enough Mobs to earn it, gained some experience and playing knowledge, had some fun and, most importantly, retained your dignity.
- AllaKhazam

Hethral
/r Where's the corpse.
Posts: 915
(1/23/01 1:40:49 pm)

Re: Time to make bards look better
It wasn't so much a decision as a pushing the patch live, having everyone download it then coming in in the morning and saying "Oh shit what do you mean we forgot those animations?"
They screwed up, they admitted it, they just don't want to make people download something that big that's just for looks.
/shrug

In the time it took you to beg for that gold piece you could have killed enough Mobs to earn it, gained some experience and playing knowledge, had some fun and, most importantly, retained your dignity.
- AllaKhazam

[Zendir]

Hey I'm just saying my theory is probably completely correct.

Also why would luclin have made a difference? I'm talking about the original vanilla models that launched with the boxed retail game in 1999 (aka the ones you're supposed to use on p99), before they even knew they were gonna make the first expansion much less the 3rd.

Expansions was always the plan, since they didnt have the time to have 5 continents in vanilla as advertised. The added animations just werent a priority.