Why are trolls online so mean?

[Jimjam]

There is a divergent discussion forming in the tank subforums exploring what encourages trolling. Rather that posting this information I have cobbled together there I’ll post it here.

The “online disinhibition effect” refers to the phenomenon of acting differently in online environments compared to face-to-face interactions. On the one hand, it may involve unusual acts of generosity and kindness or of sharing very personal things (e.g., secret fears, wishes, etc.) something called benign disinhibition. On the other hand, it may also involve visits to places that would never being explored in the real world (e.g., places of violence, crime, pornography, etc.) or acts of anger, harsh criticisms, rude language, hatred, or even threats (toxic disinhibition).

According to Suler (2004), at least six factors are involved in online disinhibition (whether benign or toxic) that intersect and interact with each other:

Dissociative anonymity (e.g., in online environment people can hide some or all of their identity so they may feel free to do or say whatever they want)
Invisibility (e.g., people cannot see each other, other people may not even know they are present at all, people do not have to worry about how others look or sound in response to what they say, etc.)
Asynchronicity (e.g., communication is asynchronous, people may experience this type of communication as “running away” after posting a hostile message, say mean things and not really worry about the consequences)
Solipsistic introjection (e.g., people feel the reading of posts or messages as a voice within their head)
Dissociative imagination (e.g., people may view online life as a kind of game with rules and norms that don’t apply to everyday life)
Minimization of status & authority (e.g., in online environments, everyone has an equal opportunity to voice him or herself, regardless of gender, race, wealth, or status so, people may be more willing to speak out or misbehave)
Of course, “the disinhibition effect” is not the only factor implicated in how people will behave in online environments. Individual differences and predispositions play important role. For example, personality traits or intensity of personal needs and feelings may play important role on how much an individual is susceptible to disinhibition.

Lowry et al (2016) reference various studies that state moral disengagement caused by online disinhibition results in a disregard for social morals. Indeed Liu et al (2022) refer to studies that show the link between online disinhibition and online antisocial behaviour.
Individuals who display callous and unemotional traits are also more at risk of becoming disinhibited online, leading to cyberbullying behaviour (Wright et al., 2019). Interestingly, those who experience trolling are more likely to engage in it themselves (March and Marrington, 2019, as cited in Liu et al., 2022).

There certainly is a cost benefit argument for engaging in online activity. The 'Be Kind' hashtag was widely shared by the same individuals who then continued to troll others. Perhaps there's a form of addiction / specific problematic internet use (David, 2001) to consider here?

The insight is that maybe those who have experienced trolling have contextualised it as part of 'the game' behind online interactions. As well as being a component of bullying, teasing can be a component of play. If interpreted as non-hostile in intent the teasing may be mutually enjoyable for both teaser and recipient (various studies cited by Eckert et al., 2020). This would explain why some people exposed to trolling online go on to be trolls themselves - they enjoyed being trolled, enjoy trolling and believe others will enjoy their trolling too. They may fail to perceive the trolling as being mean as they believe it a non-hostile joke.





References

Davis, R. A. (2001). A cognitive–behavioral model of pathological Internet use. Computers in Human Behavior, 17(2), 187–195. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0747-5632(00)00041-8

Eckert, J., Winkler, S. L., & Cartmill, E. A. (2020). Just kidding: the evolutionary roots of playful teasing. Biology Letters, 16(9), 20200370. https://10.1098/rsbl.2020.0370

Liu, M., Wu, B., Li, F., Wang, X., & Geng, F. (2022). Does mindfulness reduce trolling? The relationship between trait mindfulness and online trolling: The mediating role of anger rumination and the moderating role of online disinhibition. Journal of Affective Disorders, 301, 36-43. https://10.1016/j.jad.2022.01.023

Lowry, P. B., Zhang, J., Wang, C., & Siponen, M. (2016). Why Do Adults Engage in Cyberbullying on Social Media? An Integration of Online Disinhibition and Deindividuation Effects with the Social Structure and Social Learning Model. Information Systems Research, 27(4), 962-986. https://10.1287/isre.2016.0671

Suler, J. (2004). The online disinhibition effect. Cyberpsychology & Behavior, 7(3), 321-326.

Wright, M. F., Harper, B. D., & Wachs, S. (2019). The associations between cyberbullying and callous-unemotional traits among adolescents: The moderating effect of online disinhibition. Personality and Individual Differences, 140, 41-45. https://10.1016/j.paid.2018.04.001

TLDR trolling is all seen as a bit of a game by most involved as they aren’t able to perceive or empathise how they may be hurting others.

[Trexller]

ermm

bro

gahhh

must... resist...

OMG

IF YOUR FEELINGS GOT HURT BY WORDS ONLINE THEN YOU ARE TOO WEAK TO BE ALIVE

ahh ok

im ok

[Troxx]

In a contest of cake vs pie …

Cake wins.

Fuck pie.

(Unless pumpkin pie)

[unsunghero]

the teasing may be mutually enjoyable for both teaser and recipient

Almost never for the recipient. But when done well, enjoyable to a lot of other witnesses

Anonymity makes monsters

When Steven forgets he isn’t on the internet:

[Cecily]

None of that looks particularly useful, interesting, or insightful. Have we gotten a good definition for trolling yet? Is this the point of psychology? To leech grant money to write papers on novel subject matter and conduct research that doesn't have to have any reproducibility? As for my contribution, I hope it hurts you because this a waste of tax payers money and you shrinks should do something more valuable for society like flip burgers or dump garbage.

[aussenseiter]

Slaps you with a trout

(this is what they took from you)

[Trexller]

None of that looks particularly useful, interesting, or insightful. Have we gotten a good definition for trolling yet? Is this the point of psychology? To leech grant money to write papers on novel subject matter and conduct research that doesn't have to have any reproducibility? As for my contribution, I hope it hurts you because this a waste of tax payers money and you shrinks should do something more valuable for society like flip burgers or dump garbage.

I love you.

[Cecily]

Go fuck yourself.

[Cecily]

It's even reduced to a fucking cute pop psych sound byte click bait title. Why are trolls online so gosh darn mean? This isn't benefiting society. It's dumbing it down. It's providing pseudo-intellectual entertainment in pop psych journals / magazines for those among us still able to read words with funny pictures.

[aussenseiter]

It's even reduced to a fucking cute pop psych sound byte click bait title. Why are trolls online so gosh darn mean? This isn't benefiting society. It's dumbing it down. It's providing pseudo-intellectual entertainment in pop psych journals / magazines for those among us still able to read words with funny pictures.

It's a post-September world and I'm wearing bacon pants.

[Trexller]

Go fuck yourself.

Yes, SIR !!!

[Warco]

Oh boy, now you've done it!

[unsunghero]

Jim’s a pretty nice dude, so I’ll say nice contribution, sir

I only had skimmed that explanation, but I’ll still defer to my simpler one that everyone already knows: anonymity makes monsters. The vast majority of the “trolls” online wouldn’t say the stuff to a stranger IRL

They likely do it because it entertains them, and some may think it entertains others. I don’t see it as all that different than an IRL bully: they want to get some kind of a reaction

[Cecily]

I genuinely have no idea who you are. Please refrain from future low int, unfunny replies.

[Cecily]

Jim’s a pretty nice dude, so I’ll say nice contribution, sir

I only had skimmed that explanation, but I’ll still defer to my simpler one that everyone already knows: anonymity makes monsters. The vast majority of the “trolls” online wouldn’t say the stuff to a stranger IRL

They likely do it because it entertains them, and some may think it entertains others. I don’t see it as all that different than an IRL bully: they want to get some kind of a reaction
You're conflating online trolling with IRL bullying. They really aren't the same thing. And bullshit the same people don't talk just as much shit IRL. Some people aren't pussies.

"Bullying is the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception of an imbalance of physical or social power. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict."

"In Internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, a newsgroup, forum, chat room, online video game, or blog, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception."

[Arvan]

There is a divergent discussion forming in the tank subforums exploring what encourages trolling. Rather that posting this information I have cobbled together there I’ll post it here.

The “online disinhibition effect” refers to the phenomenon of acting differently in online environments compared to face-to-face interactions. On the one hand, it may involve unusual acts of generosity and kindness or of sharing very personal things (e.g., secret fears, wishes, etc.) something called benign disinhibition. On the other hand, it may also involve visits to places that would never being explored in the real world (e.g., places of violence, crime, pornography, etc.) or acts of anger, harsh criticisms, rude language, hatred, or even threats (toxic disinhibition).

According to Suler (2004), at least six factors are involved in online disinhibition (whether benign or toxic) that intersect and interact with each other:

Dissociative anonymity (e.g., in online environment people can hide some or all of their identity so they may feel free to do or say whatever they want)
Invisibility (e.g., people cannot see each other, other people may not even know they are present at all, people do not have to worry about how others look or sound in response to what they say, etc.)
Asynchronicity (e.g., communication is asynchronous, people may experience this type of communication as “running away” after posting a hostile message, say mean things and not really worry about the consequences)
Solipsistic introjection (e.g., people feel the reading of posts or messages as a voice within their head)
Dissociative imagination (e.g., people may view online life as a kind of game with rules and norms that don’t apply to everyday life)
Minimization of status & authority (e.g., in online environments, everyone has an equal opportunity to voice him or herself, regardless of gender, race, wealth, or status so, people may be more willing to speak out or misbehave)
Of course, “the disinhibition effect” is not the only factor implicated in how people will behave in online environments. Individual differences and predispositions play important role. For example, personality traits or intensity of personal needs and feelings may play important role on how much an individual is susceptible to disinhibition.

Lowry et al (2016) reference various studies that state moral disengagement caused by online disinhibition results in a disregard for social morals. Indeed Liu et al (2022) refer to studies that show the link between online disinhibition and online antisocial behaviour.
Individuals who display callous and unemotional traits are also more at risk of becoming disinhibited online, leading to cyberbullying behaviour (Wright et al., 2019). Interestingly, those who experience trolling are more likely to engage in it themselves (March and Marrington, 2019, as cited in Liu et al., 2022).

There certainly is a cost benefit argument for engaging in online activity. The 'Be Kind' hashtag was widely shared by the same individuals who then continued to troll others. Perhaps there's a form of addiction / specific problematic internet use (David, 2001) to consider here?

The insight is that maybe those who have experienced trolling have contextualised it as part of 'the game' behind online interactions. As well as being a component of bullying, teasing can be a component of play. If interpreted as non-hostile in intent the teasing may be mutually enjoyable for both teaser and recipient (various studies cited by Eckert et al., 2020). This would explain why some people exposed to trolling online go on to be trolls themselves - they enjoyed being trolled, enjoy trolling and believe others will enjoy their trolling too. They may fail to perceive the trolling as being mean as they believe it a non-hostile joke.





References

Davis, R. A. (2001). A cognitive–behavioral model of pathological Internet use. Computers in Human Behavior, 17(2), 187–195. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0747-5632(00)00041-8

Eckert, J., Winkler, S. L., & Cartmill, E. A. (2020). Just kidding: the evolutionary roots of playful teasing. Biology Letters, 16(9), 20200370. https://10.1098/rsbl.2020.0370

Liu, M., Wu, B., Li, F., Wang, X., & Geng, F. (2022). Does mindfulness reduce trolling? The relationship between trait mindfulness and online trolling: The mediating role of anger rumination and the moderating role of online disinhibition. Journal of Affective Disorders, 301, 36-43. https://10.1016/j.jad.2022.01.023

Lowry, P. B., Zhang, J., Wang, C., & Siponen, M. (2016). Why Do Adults Engage in Cyberbullying on Social Media? An Integration of Online Disinhibition and Deindividuation Effects with the Social Structure and Social Learning Model. Information Systems Research, 27(4), 962-986. https://10.1287/isre.2016.0671

Suler, J. (2004). The online disinhibition effect. Cyberpsychology & Behavior, 7(3), 321-326.

Wright, M. F., Harper, B. D., & Wachs, S. (2019). The associations between cyberbullying and callous-unemotional traits among adolescents: The moderating effect of online disinhibition. Personality and Individual Differences, 140, 41-45. https://10.1016/j.paid.2018.04.001

TLDR trolling is all seen as a bit of a game by most involved as they aren’t able to perceive or empathise how they may be hurting others.

tbf i think furor threatens to punch people's teeth in and out of game.

[Cecily]

Like really. You can talk a lot of shit IRL, because most people are pussies, or are at the very least people who prefer not going to jail over a fellow American exercising their right to free speech. Now if you're the type of person who would say something online and not say the same thing to a stranger, you are, in fact, a pussy. And you are most people. Therefore, statistically, it's fine to talk shit to you IRL and by extension most people, who are also pussies. There's outliers who will shoot you, but a little stereotyping saves a whole lot of time.

[unsunghero]

You're conflating online trolling with IRL bullying. They really aren't the same thing. And bullshit the same people don't talk just as much shit IRL. Some people aren't pussies.


Not saying you were trolling before, but would you say to your colleagues in healthcare straight to their face that they are “low intelligence” if it were true?

Sure some do it IRL as well though, not denying that. I get it in my job I wouldn’t say all the time, but definitely sometimes. Usually from drunk people ;)

The rest I guess I agree with too. It’s hard to find an an apology that perfectly fits on the spot sometimes. But both are after a negative reaction

[unsunghero]

*analogy

[Cecily]

No. That would be idiotic. And if you don't think "my colleagues in healthcare" aren't some of the meanest people to walk the planet. Yeah if I think someone is an idiot, I'll let them know why are, using workplace appropriate words, and cite reasons why.

[unsunghero]

No. That would be idiotic. And if you don't think "my colleagues in healthcare" aren't some of the meanest people to walk the planet. Yeah if I think someone is an idiot, I'll let them know why are, using workplace appropriate words, and cite reasons why.

Kk haven’t been given reasons to doubt your cred, so I’ll take that at face value

Damn then girl, props

[Cecily]

Not saying you were trolling before, but would you say to your colleagues in healthcare straight to their face that they are “low intelligence” if it were true?

Sure some do it IRL as well though, not denying that. I get it in my job I wouldn’t say all the time, but definitely sometimes. Usually from drunk people ;)

The rest I guess I agree with too. It’s hard to find an an apology that perfectly fits on the spot sometimes. But both are after a negative reaction
When it comes down to it, trolling is mischief. And it serves a function in society where people are a little too pro-social. Too agreeable. Too unwilling to engage in conflict. There's huge echo-chambers online where people lose their own ego to the herd when comes to their own opinions. It's subtle and people don't always notice it happening. People like me like to fuck with people like them. Shake up their world view a little and give them opportunity to reassess why they feel that way. You're a shrink and a tool of the man to maintain social order, so naturally trolls kinda don't sit well with you. But it's important to agitate groups of people, because like water... they go fucking stagnant.

[Cecily]

Also the low int comment was directed at whoever Trexller is with his hurrr you're trans remark.

[unsunghero]

When it comes down to it, trolling is mischief. And it serves a function in society where people are a little too pro-social. Too agreeable. Too unwilling to engage in conflict. There's huge echo-chambers online where people lose their own ego to the herd when comes to their own opinions. It's subtle and people don't always notice it happening. People like me like to fuck with people like them. Shake up their world view a little and give them opportunity to reassess why they feel that way. You're a shrink and a tool of the man to maintain social order, so naturally trolls kinda don't sit well with you. But it's important to agitate groups of people, because like water... they go fucking stagnant.

Welllll, I work in BH but def not credentialed enough to call myself a shrink ;)

And I am def big on order and manners IRL, which is why that aspect of Japanese culture really resonates with me (although I am definitely not one of those…whatever the word is for huge fans of Japanese culture or anime)

But online, I can definitely engage in some “feud” type trolling too. Chortles and I used to go back and forth, and I even got into it with CD288 recently, which actually didn’t end that well for me due to him pulling out a very unexpected trump (meaning the term, not the person) card to my personal attacks :(

I don’t even have as good of a higher order thinking justification as you. I don’t tend to go after people, but when someone persistently goes at me, I take some sort of sick glee in thinking up creative ways to insult them back. And I assume that many people reading are entertained by the drama, even though many probably wouldn’t admit it

This is speaking for myself only obv

[unsunghero]

* frustrating not being able to edit out a “definitely” or 2, but /shrug posting when high…it happens

[Cecily]

I think a lot of people are conflict adverse, which is a nicer word for my page 2 rant. For better or worse I am not. I think it probably correlates to low Big 5 agreeableness. I don't think conflict is necessarily a negative. A lot of people here have called me a troll over the years, and that's probably accurate... but I'm not really sure what those idiots mean by that and I imagine they don't know either. Because they're idiots.

[Cecily]

I'm quite tired good night.

[Ennewi]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_0

Long before the internet people were writing every uncensored thing imaginable on public bathroom walls/stalls and tablet arm desks in high school. The one that was commonplace at the main high school I went to was LAO, written as...

L
A
O

...to resemble an upside down stick figure jerking off.

At first, students would write it in pen but once their artwork started being removed, they carved it into the wood. As to why? Idk. Without over thinking it, we are slightly evolved animals but animals all the same. Everyone has aggression by nature but in society not everyone has an acceptable way of expressing it openly. Some do, some don't, others figure out more productive ways to manage it. There is money to be made from beating people in the face repeatedly or becoming a shock jock.

[Ennewi]

Spacing won't display it properly so...

TujOGfdbSt0

[wuanahto]

being nice is not a social skill i was born with
dont shame me

[Toxigen]

because fuck you thats why

[Ooloo]

Trolling gives people thick skin, it allows them to experience the cruelty of the world in a way that doesn't physically harm them. It's just words.

Having used the internet since the mid 90's, I no longer even remotely care what anyone online calls me or says to me. It was scary at first, but now I don't give a fuckin shit at all you fuckmen can all suck my dick

Sorry... still occasional outbursts.

[Cecily]

That benefit works IRL too. Words are words, whatever the medium. Having someone yell "faggot" at me as they drive by would have crushed me at one point. But the shit I've been called here really desensitized me to verbal assault.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

There is a divergent discussion forming in the tank subforums exploring what encourages trolling. Rather that posting this information I have cobbled together there I’ll post it here.

The “online disinhibition effect” refers to the phenomenon of acting differently in online environments compared to face-to-face interactions. On the one hand, it may involve unusual acts of generosity and kindness or of sharing very personal things (e.g., secret fears, wishes, etc.) something called benign disinhibition. On the other hand, it may also involve visits to places that would never being explored in the real world (e.g., places of violence, crime, pornography, etc.) or acts of anger, harsh criticisms, rude language, hatred, or even threats (toxic disinhibition).

According to Suler (2004), at least six factors are involved in online disinhibition (whether benign or toxic) that intersect and interact with each other:

Dissociative anonymity (e.g., in online environment people can hide some or all of their identity so they may feel free to do or say whatever they want)
Invisibility (e.g., people cannot see each other, other people may not even know they are present at all, people do not have to worry about how others look or sound in response to what they say, etc.)
Asynchronicity (e.g., communication is asynchronous, people may experience this type of communication as “running away” after posting a hostile message, say mean things and not really worry about the consequences)
Solipsistic introjection (e.g., people feel the reading of posts or messages as a voice within their head)
Dissociative imagination (e.g., people may view online life as a kind of game with rules and norms that don’t apply to everyday life)
Minimization of status & authority (e.g., in online environments, everyone has an equal opportunity to voice him or herself, regardless of gender, race, wealth, or status so, people may be more willing to speak out or misbehave)
Of course, “the disinhibition effect” is not the only factor implicated in how people will behave in online environments. Individual differences and predispositions play important role. For example, personality traits or intensity of personal needs and feelings may play important role on how much an individual is susceptible to disinhibition.

Lowry et al (2016) reference various studies that state moral disengagement caused by online disinhibition results in a disregard for social morals. Indeed Liu et al (2022) refer to studies that show the link between online disinhibition and online antisocial behaviour.
Individuals who display callous and unemotional traits are also more at risk of becoming disinhibited online, leading to cyberbullying behaviour (Wright et al., 2019). Interestingly, those who experience trolling are more likely to engage in it themselves (March and Marrington, 2019, as cited in Liu et al., 2022).

There certainly is a cost benefit argument for engaging in online activity. The 'Be Kind' hashtag was widely shared by the same individuals who then continued to troll others. Perhaps there's a form of addiction / specific problematic internet use (David, 2001) to consider here?

The insight is that maybe those who have experienced trolling have contextualised it as part of 'the game' behind online interactions. As well as being a component of bullying, teasing can be a component of play. If interpreted as non-hostile in intent the teasing may be mutually enjoyable for both teaser and recipient (various studies cited by Eckert et al., 2020). This would explain why some people exposed to trolling online go on to be trolls themselves - they enjoyed being trolled, enjoy trolling and believe others will enjoy their trolling too. They may fail to perceive the trolling as being mean as they believe it a non-hostile joke.





References

Davis, R. A. (2001). A cognitive–behavioral model of pathological Internet use. Computers in Human Behavior, 17(2), 187–195. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0747-5632(00)00041-8

Eckert, J., Winkler, S. L., & Cartmill, E. A. (2020). Just kidding: the evolutionary roots of playful teasing. Biology Letters, 16(9), 20200370. https://10.1098/rsbl.2020.0370

Liu, M., Wu, B., Li, F., Wang, X., & Geng, F. (2022). Does mindfulness reduce trolling? The relationship between trait mindfulness and online trolling: The mediating role of anger rumination and the moderating role of online disinhibition. Journal of Affective Disorders, 301, 36-43. https://10.1016/j.jad.2022.01.023

Lowry, P. B., Zhang, J., Wang, C., & Siponen, M. (2016). Why Do Adults Engage in Cyberbullying on Social Media? An Integration of Online Disinhibition and Deindividuation Effects with the Social Structure and Social Learning Model. Information Systems Research, 27(4), 962-986. https://10.1287/isre.2016.0671

Suler, J. (2004). The online disinhibition effect. Cyberpsychology & Behavior, 7(3), 321-326.

Wright, M. F., Harper, B. D., & Wachs, S. (2019). The associations between cyberbullying and callous-unemotional traits among adolescents: The moderating effect of online disinhibition. Personality and Individual Differences, 140, 41-45. https://10.1016/j.paid.2018.04.001

TLDR trolling is all seen as a bit of a game by most involved as they aren’t able to perceive or empathise how they may be hurting others.

That was a solid read.

There were economists studying mmo in-game economies back in the 2000's, mostly for fun. You can dig up the various Masters theses that actually worked it out on the record, no doubt. It's 2023!

And the psychological thing is really fascinating. For starters, the mmo world (and its close cousin various kinds of forum questing, where the trolling happens) functions like a Skinner box more or less. So it needs constant feedback systems.

Remember when eq added the thin green exp line under the normal purple exp line? That was pure Skinner. You have to make the feedback system pronounced but not calculable (no number counters). So the thin green line sometimes you can see it move! That's stimulus-response mechanism. Your reward circuit is now a slave to that bar.

But the psychological and behavioral mechanisms of both online and forum freaks is well-studied, and since I am a technological determinist these studies make me very happy. Humans are tools for their tools, baby.

Quality post. Does not belong here. Our current demo trends meth damaged.

I'd rather be a fool for a Skinner box than a junkie. Fact.

[magnetaress]

i think psychotic ppl pool and congregate online better because if you shoved them all into a little closet irl they'd be less functional and communicative butt online they can just scream into the void endlesssly without feeling any direct repercusions immediately so there is zero fear keeping them in check

psychpaths don't really fear butt u can control them by training them that if they do certain behaviors they will have outcomes they don't want so while they aren't feeling strongly one way they are constantly motivated to have freedom and shit

i don't know if pain is effective in controlling psychopaths like can u shock collar somebody who doesn't feel emotions butt cuz enough pain to trigger a response and then motivate said person?

i strongly disbelieve that someone doesn't feel anything at all at best they feel very little in that case they can be controlled by just amping up the stimulus

i don't believe that ppl should be constitutionally protected from being controlled in this manner

brain chip every chimp i say

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

So, to get back to the science, we got three problems.


Anonymity
Disinhibition
Dissociation


Anonymity ---> disinhibition. But where and how does dissociation come in?

Solving for the Dissociation factor is crucial, because that is where a lot of the mutated but often pointless malice comes from.

In real life, we are kept in check (inhibited) by the fact people can see us, hear us, identify us.

Real life also -- let's assume -- favors stable identity. This is why aberrant personality or cognitive types are aberrant. The normal condition is a more or less "stable self." By "normal" I mean all the drama.

But not psychosis!

Dissociation is not a dramatic person. Dissociation is a psychosis process.

That the online world would create dissociated selves or push already fragile selves over an edge, in quantity, is so predictable it isn't even funny. It's ridiculously predictable.

But so is most of what happens, if you are a technological determinist like all the cool kids are.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I can't play alts for this reason.

Shit's real classic. EQ and then WoW created a lot of damaged brains ya know. I would love to meet the babies that were being "tended to" for hours on end during raids during afk's.

Evercrack babies.

[unsunghero]

Real life also -- let's assume -- favors stable identity. This is why aberrant personality or cognitive types are aberrant. The normal condition is a more or less "stable self." By "normal" I mean all the drama.

But not psychosis!

Dissociation is not a dramatic person. Dissociation is a psychosis process.



Stick with aberrant personality types rather than psychosis. I personally don’t like diagnosing based on reading someone’s chat log or online postings, mostly because I’m not credentialed to do it and that’s not the correct way to….but I think it’s a safe assumption that the worst of the worst “trolls” in the world (the ones that go out of their way to torture innocent people online) most likely have some kind of personality disorder

Psychosis just isn’t as reasonable of a guess. Someone actually psychotic may not even be able to manage keeping a computer in working order. Because stimuli in a psychotic person’s brain is constantly being twisted and misinterpreted, often in a paranoid manner, simple mundane computer messages all of a sudden can be seen as “patterns” or “signals” usually resulting in the psychotic person taking their computer apart, screwing up the basic software that runs it, or just refusing to use it. A truly psychotic person would NOT make an effective online troll, IMO

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Stick with aberrant personality types rather than psychosis. I personally don’t like diagnosing based on reading someone’s chat log or online postings, mostly because I’m not credentialed to do it and that’s not the correct way to….but I think it’s a safe assumption that the worst of the worst “trolls” in the world (the ones that go out of their way to torture innocent people online) most likely have some kind of personality disorder

Psychosis just isn’t as reasonable of a guess. Someone actually psychotic may not even be able to manage keeping a computer in working order. Because stimuli in a psychotic person’s brain is constantly being twisted and misinterpreted, often in a paranoid manner, simple mundane computer messages all of a sudden can be seen as “patterns” or “signals” usually resulting in the psychotic person taking their computer apart, screwing up the basic software that runs it, or just refusing to use it. A truly psychotic person would NOT make an effective online troll, IMO

Agree on thinking you can't diagnose a particular individual case w/o having an M.D. b/c this is psychiatric, not just psychological trouble we are talking about here, correct?

Actually rewiring the brain.

I still want to talk about dissociation b/c the structural parameters are there. People undergo or experience highly disordered states all the time but do not notice them as such, b/c they return back to normal, or otherwise are functionally identical.

This is a good point to clarify the idea that people talk about when they talk about "structural" vs. actual. It's the same as the distinction between potential vs actual, but structure in this context, means the more or less closed system in question and what it does or does not incentivize or introduce.

Games like Everquest were and still are potentiator machines, structures, that might very well create or reward "aberrant" behavior and personality.

But I would go one step further and say, the nature of the activity itself likely creates transient psychotic events in otherwise normal people.

Temporary psychotic episodes that can be quite severe due to the trio of bad factors (anonymity, disinhibition, dissociation) at play, can get pretty intense in the internets era. And at scale!

[magnetaress]

So, to get back to the science, we got three problems.


Anonymity
Disinhibition
Dissociation


Anonymity ---> disinhibition. But where and how does dissociation come in?

Solving for the Dissociation factor is crucial, because that is where a lot of the mutated but often pointless malice comes from.

In real life, we are kept in check (inhibited) by the fact people can see us, hear us, identify us.

Real life also -- let's assume -- favors stable identity. This is why aberrant personality or cognitive types are aberrant. The normal condition is a more or less "stable self." By "normal" I mean all the drama.

But not psychosis!

Dissociation is not a dramatic person. Dissociation is a psychosis process.

That the online world would create dissociated selves or push already fragile selves over an edge, in quantity, is so predictable it isn't even funny. It's ridiculously predictable.

But so is most of what happens, if you are a technological determinist like all the cool kids are.

Tru

Stick with aberrant personality types rather than psychosis. I personally don’t like diagnosing based on reading someone’s chat log or online postings, mostly because I’m not credentialed to do it and that’s not the correct way to….but I think it’s a safe assumption that the worst of the worst “trolls” in the world (the ones that go out of their way to torture innocent people online) most likely have some kind of personality disorder

Psychosis just isn’t as reasonable of a guess. Someone actually psychotic may not even be able to manage keeping a computer in working order. Because stimuli in a psychotic person’s brain is constantly being twisted and misinterpreted, often in a paranoid manner, simple mundane computer messages all of a sudden can be seen as “patterns” or “signals” usually resulting in the psychotic person taking their computer apart, screwing up the basic software that runs it, or just refusing to use it. A truly psychotic person would NOT make an effective online troll, IMO
If you can't be a good person online you are basically incapable of being truly moral.

Most of these ppl are just sinners destined for the lake if fire. It's silly to separate online personas from irl ones.

Let em burn.

[magnetaress]

Like a truly good person can be anonymous and have zero threat of punishment and they'll still do the good thing. That's the basic minimum standard we collectively need to hold.

[unsunghero]

But I would go one step further and say, the nature of the activity itself likely creates transient psychotic events in otherwise normal people.

Temporary psychotic episodes that can be quite severe due to the trio of bad factors (anonymity, disinhibition, dissociation) at play, can get pretty intense in the internets era. And at scale!

Wellllll, "disassociation" probably has a different meaning in a clinical setting. This is different than roleplaying a character in a video game, or even pretending to be that character in real life because you find it fun or comforting

ACTUAL disassociation is extremely rare. Despite kids wanting to be trendy by faking mental illness like multiple personality disorder on Tik Tok, it is rare IRL to the point of some psychiatrists basically claiming D.I.D doesn't even exist. The only time you see it is as some type of trauma response from a severely traumatized individual. We're talking a kid who was molested or abused severely for a large portion of their childhood kind of trauma. There's been extremely rare case studies of those people "disassociating" to a different personality as a defense mechanism of their brain. This is somewhat similar to a soldier with PTSD disassociating to being back in the war, which once again, from working with tons of veterans, is extremely rare to the point of ALMOST never actually occurring anywhere. Although I did read a true life crime case of a vet with PTSD who apparently disassociated that he was back in a warzone and killed his neighbors randomly

This is also different than "when I get really angry or have another powerful negative emotion I just black out". That's not true disassociation in the clinical sense. That just means that the frontal lobe of the brain which is doing the reasoning isn't as active in that moment. But this is different than actual diassociation


And could a video game cause a psychotic break? No. Once again it's extremely rare to have a sudden psychotic break past the age of onset of a psychotic disorder (for women its around 18-20ish, for men it's around 22-24ish). The only reason to have a psychotic break past that point is almost always going to be due to a chemical influence, like taking a strong psychoactive drug. Playing a video game just can't fuck with brain chemicals to make someone psychotic. The worst that playing a video game can do is cause addiction, which would result in psychological withdrawal symptoms such as depression, irritability, insomnia, etc. But not psychosis

[unsunghero]

^
To give an idea of why a person who is psychotic would not make an effective troll is one time we had a client who was frequently using meth and often psychotic believe that a normal typical iphone message (I forget what the message was, he was messing around in the settings) was an indication that his iphone had been hacked by the hologram of his ex-gf who was working with the mafia. He continued to screw around in more phone settings, causing more system prompts and messages to come up, which his paranoid brain continued to believe as more indications that his all-powerful hologram ex-gf was controlling his phone by using some sort of secret technology that the "mafia" has

We had a different guy who was manic with psychosis who saw some option to "hide my email" (or something like that, I forget the exact option) on his phone and believed without a shadow of a doubt, that this was some secret app his wife had put on the phone to have affairs with other men. He then began to accuse his wife of infidelity to the point where she feared for her own safety. When he finally got some sleep (he was going on about a week no sleep) and his brain chemicals returned more to their normal state, he became an entirely different person. He was sheepish, embarrassed, and saying "man, obviously it's just a phone setting. I just don't know how to use an iphone. I can't believe I went nuts like that"

There's been tons of other cases of psychotic people's paranoid brains believing that literally any type of message on a computer, which could be a normal routine message, could be an email, could be anything, is some deeper "hack" or "signal". Part of psychosis is "pattern forming" which is the brain forming patterns that don't really exist. The movie A Beautiful Mind illustrated this idea well

This is why I say most likely a psychotic person is going to believe their computer has been hacked by the some all-powerful entity, or is secretly recording them, controlling their thoughts, all sorts of shit. Then they'll take it apart, or start fucking with the settings and soon their computer won't work

They won't likely be able to sit and continue to post on a message board for months or years at a time while actively psychotic. It could happen, but it's not likely

[magnetaress]

Still dancing around the morality of online trolling I see...

If you accept Jesus as your lord and salvation then you will have much less desire to troll ppl online if none at a if you are able to be true in your faith.

[unsunghero]

Still dancing around the morality of online trolling I see...

If you accept Jesus as your lord and salvation then you will have much less desire to troll ppl online if none at a if you are able to be true in your faith.

I don’t want to seem too nit-picky, but just trying to show how a psychotic person probably would be able to handle trolling

I guess an easy to follow example would be: everyone has seen a homeless person actively hallucinating yelling at people who aren’t there. If you put that person in front of a computer and said you would give them $1000 if they would troll people on a message board or video game they still wouldn’t be able to handle it. Most likely that computer would get broken in some way

“Psychopath” (that you’ve used) is probably a better descriptor for a troll than “psychotic”

But again, not trying to nit pick

[magnetaress]

Yes I agree someone disconnected from reality isn't even going to be a good online troll.

When I talk about psychopathy it's in the general sense of a lack of empathy for others. Plenty of grounded and rational people fit that definition.


I'm not talking about people having a "psychotic episode" or completely detached from reality.


The truth is 99% of people lack the proper levels of empathy to be good people. Even if they hide it well in person it surely shows when they are no longer in fear or anxiety about being mistreated because they are essentially assholes who worship Satan and materialism.

[magnetaress]

I don't know. To me it's just insane not to try and have empathy for others. Even if you have to "use force" or "stop them" it can still be done with empathy.

So I see trolling as a form of insanity that Satan has afflicted the people of the world with and I honestly see little hope for them.

So no I don't think trolling should be written off as just normal or sane behavior...like because ppl feel safe an anonymous that is just a surface level delusion. Again Satan here.

[magnetaress]

Or one of his minions. Like either way.


So what I was communicating was:


Online trolls are satanic engaging in Satan worshipping and egotistical masturbation.

Very few will likely ever be saved and you can't really help a Satan worshipping person (basically everyone these days) who doesn't want help and can't force them to be good. So treat Online trolls like normal ppl irl and ignore the fuck out of them as much as possible or have a gentle laugh as they ignore any wisdom imparted and continue to engage in their deeply delusional behavior.

[unsunghero]

Yes I agree someone disconnected from reality isn't even going to be a good online troll.

When I talk about psychopathy it's in the general sense of a lack of empathy for others. Plenty of grounded and rational people fit that definition.


I'm not talking about people having a "psychotic episode" or completely detached from reality.


The truth is 99% of people lack the proper levels of empathy to be good people. Even if they hide it well in person it surely shows when they are no longer in fear or anxiety about being mistreated because they are essentially assholes who worship Satan and materialism.

Ya it’s about a lack of empathy for sure

[unsunghero]

This is a side-gripe but I have assisted in mental health trainings for police officers multiple times now because it’s more chill and relaxed than my usual work, and I still obv am getting paid for it. This is by giving recommendations, work anecdotes and doing role plays, which I play a mentally ill suspect and they practice conversing with and de-escalating me. And of course I’m instructed to not make it easy for them

And one of the scenarios that the organizers always picks for a role play is a veteran who is disassociating to being back in a war zone. Any other mental health disorder I’ve seen many times. Psychosis is hard to convincingly “fake”, but what I do is just mimic as best I can what I’ve seen clients do and say and how they act, and usually get praise for realism. But I can’t mimic a disassociating veteran because in 16 years I’ve never seen it once

But I do what I’m told and still try ;)

[unsunghero]

Last work anecdote: a long time ago we had a young adult guy who was deemed SMI status (serious mental illness) which people typically only got for psychotic disorders, who was having delusions of persecution and paranoid

We heard from his case manager he had just set his car on fire, ruining it. We were transporting him to a psych hospital and could tell he was symptomatic and becoming more escalated in the back. What made it worse was we were stuck in gridlock traffic for 30 mins longer than the drive should have taken. And I had to piss the worst I ever had to in my life. I couldn’t just jump out to pee on the freeway in front of a client, even if he was psychotic

So when we finally got to the psych hospital I was almost running in to avoid pissing my pants. And as I’m zipping in, I see out of the corner of my eye that the client has immediately upon exiting the vehicle put his $700 iphone on the ground and began to smash it with a rock. I remember wincing and thinking “man the car and now the phone, you are going to regret that once we get you mentally stable, that sucks man”

When I came out of the bathroom there was the client holding the rock like a weapon with police in front of him tasers out. They and us talked him into putting the rock down and going in voluntarily. He was saying that assassins had been tracking his phone and were coming to kill him

Afterwards my female partner was angry at me for days. She was like “you abandoned me with a psychotic hostile client”, and I bought her lunch and apologized every way I could because she was entirely in the right. I just told her I couldn’t piss my pants at work. She eventually forgave me

Moral of the story is sometimes psychotic people will break their own electronics on purpose too

[Cecily]

Last work anecdote: a long time ago we had a young adult guy who was deemed SMI status (serious mental illness) which people typically only got for psychotic disorders, who was having delusions of persecution and paranoid

We heard from his case manager he had just set his car on fire, ruining it. We were transporting him to a psych hospital and could tell he was symptomatic and becoming more escalated in the back. What made it worse was we were stuck in gridlock traffic for 30 mins longer than the drive should have taken. And I had to piss the worst I ever had to in my life. I couldn’t just jump out to pee on the freeway in front of a client, even if he was psychotic

So when we finally got to the psych hospital I was almost running in to avoid pissing my pants. And as I’m zipping in, I see out of the corner of my eye that the client has immediately upon exiting the vehicle put his $700 iphone on the ground and began to smash it with a rock. I remember wincing and thinking “man the car and now the phone, you are going to regret that once we get you mentally stable, that sucks man”

When I came out of the bathroom there was the client holding the rock like a weapon with police in front of him tasers out. They and us talked him into putting the rock down and going in voluntarily. He was saying that assassins had been tracking his phone and were coming to kill him

Afterwards my female partner was angry at me for days. She was like “you abandoned me with a psychotic hostile client”, and I bought her lunch and apologized every way I could because she was entirely in the right. I just told her I couldn’t piss my pants at work. She eventually forgave me

Moral of the story is sometimes psychotic people will break their own electronics on purpose too
Thank you for sharing. This is how the typical online troll behaves in public.

[Cecily]

Agree on thinking you can't diagnose a particular individual case w/o having an M.D. b/c this is psychiatric, not just psychological trouble we are talking about here, correct?

Actually rewiring the brain.

I still want to talk about dissociation b/c the structural parameters are there. People undergo or experience highly disordered states all the time but do not notice them as such, b/c they return back to normal, or otherwise are functionally identical.

This is a good point to clarify the idea that people talk about when they talk about "structural" vs. actual. It's the same as the distinction between potential vs actual, but structure in this context, means the more or less closed system in question and what it does or does not incentivize or introduce.

Games like Everquest were and still are potentiator machines, structures, that might very well create or reward "aberrant" behavior and personality.

But I would go one step further and say, the nature of the activity itself likely creates transient psychotic events in otherwise normal people.

Temporary psychotic episodes that can be quite severe due to the trio of bad factors (anonymity, disinhibition, dissociation) at play, can get pretty intense in the internets era. And at scale!
Absolutely. Also, there's compelling arguments from the 90s suggesting violent video games lead to violent behavior.

[Jimjam]

I'm actually just formulating and synthesising some ideas on the impact of violent media, particularly on aggression in adolescents. I'm glad you made this post!

Absolutely. Also, there's compelling arguments from the 90s suggesting violent video games lead to violent behavior.

This is true, consumption of violent media often precedes aggression.

A big part of the reason for this is the underlying callous unemotional traits that predict a person predisposed to becoming aggressive also predict a preference for violent media. Basically, in these instances, it isn't the media causing the behaviour, rather the underlying cause of violent media consumption and aggressive behaviour is the same.

Obviously it is more complex than that, especially as most people don't score that highly on CU traits. Another influence on a/v behaviour is social norms, so in a society where a/v is perceived as being an acceptable way to resolve conflicts or achieve goals, people are more likely to behave that way. If a person is watching a bunch of violent movies or games (even just 'wholesome' super hero movies are often very violent, and the violence is idealised) then that could be integrated into their norms and influence their behaviour to become more violent.

[unsunghero]

I'm actually just formulating and synthesising some ideas on the impact of violent media, particularly on aggression in adolescents. I'm glad you made this post!



This is true, consumption of violent media often precedes aggression.

A big part of the reason for this is the underlying callous unemotional traits that predict a person predisposed to becoming aggressive also predict a preference for violent media. Basically, in these instances, it isn't the media causing the behaviour, rather the underlying cause of violent media consumption and aggressive behaviour is the same.

Obviously it is more complex than that, especially as most people don't score that highly on CU traits. Another influence on a/v behaviour is social norms, so in a society where a/v is perceived as being an acceptable way to resolve conflicts or achieve goals, people are more likely to behave that way. If a person is watching a bunch of violent movies or games (even just 'wholesome' super hero movies are often very violent, and the violence is idealised) then that could be integrated into their norms and influence their behaviour to become more violent.

But trolling online, as Cecily pointed out earlier, is different than violent RL behavior

[Cecily]

I'm actually just formulating and synthesising some ideas on the impact of violent media, particularly on aggression in adolescents. I'm glad you made this post!
Thanks! I'm being super sarcastic. Maybe if you slap some rating stickers on game boxes it will help things.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

If you can't be a good person online you are basically incapable of being truly moral.



That's a classic philosophical problem. It's really a killer question. Your claim reminds me of how Plato sets up the plot of The Republic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Gyges

https://i.imgur.com/qZS4JOc.jpg


(BTW, The Lord of The Rings trilogy is in part Tolkien's retort to this claim. In his telling, such a kind of rind ring must be destroyed. Socrates was wrong: no one can resist the temptation. Not even reason (Gandalf) or innocence (Hobbits) can withstand its predicament.)

[unsunghero]

Thanks! I'm being super sarcastic. Maybe if you slap some rating stickers on game boxes it will help things.

Ya, I was detecting that before Jim apparently did

Without having done any research into it, it seems like an argument could be made for de-sensitization towards physical violence

But anything further would run into a correlation not causation type concern would be my guess. Are the video games really motivating someone towards violence or does someone who already had that predisposition naturally tend to gravitate towards violent video games

[Cecily]

That's 100% what the field is. It's chasing correlations and connecting bullshit with bullshit jargon in an attempt to pathologize normal human behavior. If you stick enough bullshit together, it sounds pretty darn profound. People behave differently in a social setting that has no consequences. Shocker.

[magnetaress]

I'm actually just formulating and synthesising some ideas on the impact of violent media, particularly on aggression in adolescents. I'm glad you made this post!



This is true, consumption of violent media often precedes aggression.

A big part of the reason for this is the underlying callous unemotional traits that predict a person predisposed to becoming aggressive also predict a preference for violent media. Basically, in these instances, it isn't the media causing the behaviour, rather the underlying cause of violent media consumption and aggressive behaviour is the same.

Obviously it is more complex than that, especially as most people don't score that highly on CU traits. Another influence on a/v behaviour is social norms, so in a society where a/v is perceived as being an acceptable way to resolve conflicts or achieve goals, people are more likely to behave that way. If a person is watching a bunch of violent movies or games (even just 'wholesome' super hero movies are often very violent, and the violence is idealised) then that could be integrated into their norms and influence their behaviour to become more violent.

I have a streak of ultraviolent dissasociativeness where i do like switch personalities and go completely cold numb to a lot of stuff but then i'm usually able to keep it together during high stress situations and am in better control - that persona just lacks complete empathy for anyone and anything so its a v dangerous persona to be around if you are a stupid idiot

i think that coupled with violent videogames can be pretty bad when I play (and i dont often) play a very up close and personally violent video game or engage in a very physical sport even it kinda triggers that persona some and reinfroces it, doing that every day for months could have led to a few episodes in my life where i was just like "in terminator mode".

Anyway ppl are idiots to think that something or anything is completely harmless and perfectly fine

not in this world


in this world everything is dangreous as fuck moderation is the only key and only answer and Glory to G-d and G-d's love of free will.

(fuck that baby i'm destined for the lake of fyre, bring on the tyranny)

[magnetaress]

I have a streak of ultraviolent dissasociativeness where i do like switch personalities and go completely cold numb to a lot of stuff but then i'm usually able to keep it together during high stress situations and am in better control - that persona just lacks complete empathy for anyone and anything so its a v dangerous persona to be around if you are a stupid idiot

i think that coupled with violent videogames can be pretty bad when I play (and i dont often) play a very up close and personally violent video game or engage in a very physical sport even it kinda triggers that persona some and reinfroces it, doing that every day for months could have led to a few episodes in my life where i was just like "in terminator mode".

Anyway ppl are idiots to think that something or anything is completely harmless and perfectly fine

not in this world


in this world everything is dangreous as fuck moderation is the only key and only answer and Glory to G-d and G-d's love of free will.

(fuck that baby i'm destined for the lake of fyre, bring on the tyranny)

^^^ an addendumb i am about as traumatized as a person can get since roughly 5 years old

[magnetaress]

butt on the upside there is a light at the end of the tunnel because even tho i have the psyche of a jeffery dhammer i am pretty cool and happy 90% of the time and not a stupid retarded asshole most of the time and i can keep terminator self (which isn't even the dhammernature) its a whole nother layer of coping on top of all that.

Terminator is efficiency and excellence all wrapped into one with zero inhibitions except seeking thy primary goal. (which has been survival and safety in the past)

[magnetaress]

i have no idea what online games played a part in that or violent video games maybe also a positive outlet for those feelings and moods butt also trolling ppl and being trolled has taught me some how to be less of a troll butt that is a miracle and by g-ds grace i don't think just online activity alone can achieve that you need a healthy supportive environment outside of the troll forums and to develop empathy outside of that and to face death/suicide/death of ones ego ones self without fucking up and actually harming yourself or others (more of g-d's grace)

good luck and g-d bless

[magnetaress]

i have no idea what online games played a part in that or violent video games maybe also a positive outlet for those feelings and moods butt also trolling ppl and being trolled has taught me some how to be less of a troll butt that is a miracle and by g-ds grace i don't think just online activity alone can achieve that you need a healthy supportive environment outside of the troll forums and to develop empathy outside of that and to face death/suicide/death of ones ego ones self without fucking up and actually harming yourself or others (more of g-d's grace)

good luck and g-d bless

so good and bad in all of this there is no black and white here except that 99.9% of ppl will not be able to rehabilitate themselves in a vacuum and even with help 98.325% of them still fuck it up and never crawl out of the cave into the sunlight to bask in G-d's eternal glory. And of those few that do crawl out a lot of them choose the fire instead because they are in a lot of pain.

[magnetaress]

or broken bodies

[magnetaress]

That's a classic philosophical problem. It's really a killer question. Your claim reminds me of how Plato sets up the plot of The Republic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Gyges

https://i.imgur.com/qZS4JOc.jpg


(BTW, The Lord of The Rings trilogy is in part Tolkien's retort to this claim. In his telling, such a kind of rind ring must be destroyed. Socrates was wrong: no one can resist the temptation. Not even reason (Gandalf) or innocence (Hobbits) can withstand its predicament.)

I was over generalizing butt yes!!! v thoughtful and thankfull for this input

[magnetaress]

lets call that force satan because that is what it is

satan hates g-d and desires power, dominance, and vengeance and destruction of man and to rule without freedumb and so desires to entrap beings through their desires and needs and fears

when u succumb to the temptation to troll ppl online you are succumbing to a fear or desire to control just like satan and therefore turning away from G-d almighty

[magnetaress]

and by troll i mean "HURT" without effecitively solving or changing anything because hurting ppl is what it is about trolling is not an effective means to an end or a means of defense its sole purpose is to hurt someone else (ironically u just hurtin urselfs)

when someone takes merciful and effective action to protect G-d's flock it is a different case even if it involves force as long as it respects free will and choice and the glory of g-d's creation aka the person getting nuked has a choice to behave and be kind on their own without being 'forced' the force is just neccissary because they are hurting everyone and everything including themselves

[magnetaress]

anyway thats my hot take for today i'm done !

[magnetaress]

This is a side-gripe but I have assisted in mental health trainings for police officers multiple times now because it’s more chill and relaxed than my usual work, and I still obv am getting paid for it. This is by giving recommendations, work anecdotes and doing role plays, which I play a mentally ill suspect and they practice conversing with and de-escalating me. And of course I’m instructed to not make it easy for them

And one of the scenarios that the organizers always picks for a role play is a veteran who is disassociating to being back in a war zone. Any other mental health disorder I’ve seen many times. Psychosis is hard to convincingly “fake”, but what I do is just mimic as best I can what I’ve seen clients do and say and how they act, and usually get praise for realism. But I can’t mimic a disassociating veteran because in 16 years I’ve never seen it once

But I do what I’m told and still try ;)

i think what happens is when a combat veteran dissosciates like this it usually ends up in multiple deaths so ur not going to be on those calls very often its a v sad thing

[magnetaress]

like there's an immediate escalation there isn't time to dial 911 and ask someone to calm down

all of a sudden ppl just start dying left and right until the vet is likely killed or put in jail then its seen in the prison psych ward it seems you often don't go to prisons to assist that oftten butt you may see it more there

this did happen once when i was in the psych ward for the VA hospital and some SF guy went completely berzerk and shut down the combat vet side for a few days like the guards they sent in got completely wrecked it wasn't even a fair fight

[magnetaress]

ok done reading backwards thru the thred

psych issues are v sad

try to have empathy for them even if there is no good outcomes!

[magnetaress]

its v hard to save a soul who has worked for satan for a long time and often times the only good outcome is a slightly less bad one

[magnetaress]

that doesnt make u a bad person when u fail ur only mortal and G-d will forgive u for fucking up

[magnetaress]

^^^ an addendumb i am about as traumatized as a person can get since roughly 5 years old

and to be super clear its not an excuse or anything just a fact of life to illustrate what kind of shit is like

[unsunghero]

lets call that force satan because that is what it is


To kind of go along with this idea a bit, minus the faith aspect (I greatly respect yours, just wanted to come with a non-faith-based approach myself), what I wanted to mention that sort of muddies the waters a little bit is how widely-used the term "troll" is for online behavior

It's really impossible to attempt to generalize a "troll" because the term encompasses such a wide range of actions

When I was mentioning the "worst of the worst" trolls before, maybe someone was picturing the meanest poster here, or something. But one example I was thinking of was....there was a teenage girl who died in a car accident, and somehow photos of her horribly mangled body got leaked to the internet. And somehow some complete and utter degenerates had tracked down who her parents were, and sent texts and emails saying things like "Dad, it's [her_name]", which when they opened was the pic of her body. I remember hearing about that in a documentary

The type of person to do something like that, versus someone who says sassy things on a P99 forum, are night and day different in my opinion. But yet, in both cases these people are called "online trolls". Same as the people who use VoIP (which seems to be one of the scourges of the modern age) to SWAT people or harass them or their families

So anyway, I wanted to mention that because the same term applies to such a widely different spectrum of behavior, that's probably why some people have very different opinions of it than others. And my last point is that I do agree that psych in general has far too much pathologizing of human behavior

[arvidez]

I think a lot of people are conflict adverse, which is a nicer word for my page 2 rant. For better or worse I am not. I think it probably correlates to low Big 5 agreeableness.

my agreeableness shares a politeness of 3 and a compassion of 98.

[magnetaress]

To kind of go along with this idea a bit, minus the faith aspect (I greatly respect yours, just wanted to come with a non-faith-based approach myself), what I wanted to mention that sort of muddies the waters a little bit is how widely-used the term "troll" is for online behavior

It's really impossible to attempt to generalize a "troll" because the term encompasses such a wide range of actions

When I was mentioning the "worst of the worst" trolls before, maybe someone was picturing the meanest poster here, or something. But one example I was thinking of was....there was a teenage girl who died in a car accident, and somehow photos of her horribly mangled body got leaked to the internet. And somehow some complete and utter degenerates had tracked down who her parents were, and sent texts and emails saying things like "Dad, it's [her_name]", which when they opened was the pic of her body. I remember hearing about that in a documentary

The type of person to do something like that, versus someone who says sassy things on a P99 forum, are night and day different in my opinion. But yet, in both cases these people are called "online trolls". Same as the people who use VoIP (which seems to be one of the scourges of the modern age) to SWAT people or harass them or their families

So anyway, I wanted to mention that because the same term applies to such a widely different spectrum of behavior, that's probably why some people have very different opinions of it than others. And my last point is that I do agree that psych in general has far too much pathologizing of human behavior

ya good point

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Absolutely. Also, there's compelling arguments from the 90s suggesting violent video games lead to violent behavior.

Yeah, and there was "panic" about it just like there have been panics about metal lyrics and rap lyrics, but that doesn't mean there isn't an underlying freakin problem.

Some people can mess around with lots of imaginary things. Ronnie James Dio, the Metal Midget himself, Creator of the Sign of Metal, was a sweetheart as a person.

But we are kidding ourselves if we think lots of people -- I would argue most people -- are not "topgun" at policing their imaginations to make sure it does not bleed over into how they "actually" think about the world.

Those folks should be very careful. But of course, since this is an impulse control issue, being careful is also not their strong suit.

And then you have genuine people on the edge like Magnetaress. You ok Maggie!

You know who the real problem is? People who honestly do not know they are damaged and bent out of shape.

So Magnetaress, remember you are always one step ahead of the fools. Chill out and listen to the Grateful Dead and don't do drugs. And watch that blood sugar if you decide to go with the antipsychotics. You develop tremors over time. Key to anti-psychotics is to deny it sugar rushes. Whole grains and cereals, carbs that have to digest are your friend.

A full spectrum post.

[zanderklocke]

Trolls are mean because they worship Innoruuk, the god of hate.

[magnetaress]

But we are kidding ourselves if we think lots of people -- I would argue most people -- are not "topgun" at policing their imaginations to make sure it does not bleed over into how they "actually" think about the world.

So Magnetaress, remember you are always one step ahead of the fools. Chill out and listen to the Grateful Dead and don't do drugs. And watch that blood sugar if you decide to go with the antipsychotics. You develop tremors over time. Key to anti-psychotics is to deny it sugar rushes. Whole grains and cereals, carbs that have to digest are your friend.

A full spectrum post.

:D

I gave up looking too early


hSXE7yLMclA?si=blt1x2fp32jZ0oVS


Butt thanks !

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

No problem. I'm a fully operational eq nerd. I understand there is this thing called RL. And it is not forum quest or pixel hunt.

Got to get that Buddha thing going. Non-attachment. Also non-confusion. RL is not forum quest is not pixel hunt.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

But at the same time, it is all the same lol. OK, nap time.

[azxten]

Why do I do it? Is it for the money? The fame?

No. It's for the luls.

[Raj]

Hello my friends! Lots of pretty good back and forth was seen in this thread. :cool:

Online communication often amplifies the voices of people struggling with untreated problems I am feeling like but "These are not the droids you are looking for." But narcissism tells them they are too cool for a higher power like God or Godly behaviour. :(

Silly, annoying, or mega cringeworthy behavior we can find online in spades is a byproduct of every inane thing being catalogued in perpetuity along with drugs and/or mental illness and/or personality disordered people finding comfy little perches on their favourite corners of the internets.

What alot of us used to refer to as "normies" still exist in spades around the world and likely leave far smaller footprints online in general than people disabled by their drugs and/or mental illness and/or personality disorders...

Stay strong my friends! :cool:

[magnetaress]

We all belong in little pods ready to be unleashed as shock troops in the coming holy war, being trained and disciplined so our minds obediently and loyally follow G-d's commandments !

[aussenseiter]

Hello my friends! Lots of pretty good back and forth was seen in this thread. :cool:

Online communication often amplifies the voices of people struggling with untreated problems I am feeling like but "These are not the droids you are looking for." But narcissism tells them they are too cool for a higher power like God or Godly behaviour. :(

Silly, annoying, or mega cringeworthy behavior we can find online in spades is a byproduct of every inane thing being catalogued in perpetuity along with drugs and/or mental illness and/or personality disordered people finding comfy little perches on their favourite corners of the internets.

What alot of us used to refer to as "normies" still exist in spades around the world and likely leave far smaller footprints online in general than people disabled by their drugs and/or mental illness and/or personality disorders...

Stay strong my friends! :cool:

So which Pradesh are you from, my friend?

[magnetaress]

I can tell u witch one this is, butt I won't !

[aussenseiter]

I can tell u witch one this is, butt I won't !

I already know it's meth witch. :p

[arvidez]

Hello my friends! Lots of pretty good back and forth was seen in this thread. :cool:

narcissism tells them they are too cool for a higher power like God or Godly behaviour. :(


Stay strong my friends! :cool:

narcissism "tells them" they are a warm pile of flat shit. this brings on the behaviour you are receiving exoterically.

[arvidez]

the most maligned mental illness. am i right?

[eisley]

None of that looks particularly useful, interesting, or insightful. Have we gotten a good definition for trolling yet? Is this the point of psychology? To leech grant money to write papers on novel subject matter and conduct research that doesn't have to have any reproducibility? As for my contribution, I hope it hurts you because this a waste of tax payers money and you shrinks should do something more valuable for society like flip burgers or dump garbage.

This is why you'll always be one of my favorite people from p99, even though I think you (understandably) hate me now. You understand the nuance of trolling, the subtlety of the artform.

Like P. Diddy said, you can hate me now. But I won't stop now.

Uh-uh.

[arvidez]

online poker vs. in person poker

where is there more aggression.

at the table your sight, hearing, smell, and the occasional touch and taste are engaged.

words were created to deceive and that is all we have here. zero of the five senses engaged.

reason is relatively new and without it i could argue there is actually no one here to be mean to, only ideas and electricity.