New Angry Goblin Agreement

[Knuckle]

Why doesn't this thing spawn with a flat timer. everyone there is already rolling for a low chance, what sick bastard is justifying 6 hr variance in 2023? This is why they don't make games like everquest anymore. We've already stated that we can tweak classic when it doesn't make sense as there are multiple examples of modification to classic things, why leave this in? Anyway I wont be back till this window is during work hours this is the stupidest thing in everquest for a quest mob.

Edit: this is my first time at angry goblin camp, which makes me the most qualified to speak to it. The degenerates that have been there for a year are going to have goblin brain rot influencing their opinion.

[phloridaman]

Ya, there needs to be either an agreement or patch to alleviate the bottle neck. What's the point of wasting so much of people's time? Even once every 24 hours would be hard to get. Its damn near impossible the way it is.

[Solist]

Or just make loremaster drop cords. Like he should.

keeper/master, whatever.

[skorge]

Why doesn't this thing spawn with a flat timer. everyone there is already rolling for a low chance, what sick bastard is justifying 6 hr variance in 2023? This is why they don't make games like everquest anymore. We've already stated that we can tweak classic when it doesn't make sense as there are multiple examples of modification to classic things, why leave this in? Anyway I wont be back till this window is during work hours this is the stupidest thing in everquest for a quest mob.

Edit: this is my first time at angry goblin camp, which makes me the most qualified to speak to it. The degenerates that have been there for a year are going to have goblin brain rot influencing their opinion.

do like the rest of us and avoid this quest, lol

[Toxigen]

Velious was beat in Kunark gear you don't need to put yourself through any of this hope this helps.

[Knuckle]

It’s the principle of the thing!

[Fammaden]

Or just make loremaster drop cords. Like he should.

keeper/master, whatever.

He did early on when Chardok 2.0 first launched on blue, I assumed it was changed because its not in era?

[red_demonman]

Yeah this camp blows, anything to make it slightly better plz.

[Toxigen]

the road to bis is paved in stale body odor and loneliness

[7thGate]

Realistically, the agreement should be that everyone meets up at the start of the window and rolls. Whoever wins the roll gets to turn in to the goblin. If they fail to turn in to the goblin within 5 minutes of him spawning or lose to Skargus, he goes FFA. Whoever kills Skargus needs to announce the TOD in shout so people can afk pick up the next roll time or be in violation of the player agreement and lose their skargus head.

Most people would just do the roll and log off, the only person that has to sock the roll is the winner. Some people would stay to try and snipe in case the winner can't kill it for some reason, guaranteeing it doesn't just stay up. Everyone can stop wasting huge amounts of time for no reason at this camp.

I really doubt we'll get this or something like this though, its too hard to get people to agree to change anything.

[Knuckle]

Realistically, the agreement should be that everyone meets up at the start of the window and rolls. Whoever wins the roll gets to kill the goblin. If they fail to kill the goblin within 5 minutes of him spawning, he goes FFA. Whoever kills the goblin needs to announce the TOD in shout so people can afk pick up the next roll time or be in violation of the player agreement and lose their skargus head.

Most people would just do the roll and log off, the only person that has to sock the roll is the winner. Some people would stay to try and snipe in case the winner can't kill it for some reason, guaranteeing it doesn't just stay up. Everyone can stop wasting huge amounts of time for no reason at this camp.

I really doubt we'll get this or something like this though, its too hard to get people to agree to change anything.

nah too many rules - turn it into a static spawn time. what is the POINT of a variable window on a 3 day quest mob?

[7thGate]

Players can't change the spawn time. They can make agreements like this one. If everyone agreed to that, noone needs to camp this window anymore.

The reason why we have a hell camp is because you need something complicated to handle the cases where someone just doesn't kill Skargus for whatever reason and you have to figure out what the roll time is supposed to be. People don't want something complicated, so we got something simple and stupid.

[Knuckle]

Players can't change the spawn time. They can make agreements like this one. If everyone agreed to that, noone needs to camp this window anymore.

The reason why we have a hell camp is because you need something complicated to handle the cases where someone just doesn't kill Skargus for whatever reason and you have to figure out what the roll time is supposed to be. People don't want something complicated, so we got something simple and stupid.

the spawn time can be changed. devs screw with spawns. look at quillmane. no reason it cant be done to angry goblin to avoid people wasting 6 hrs for zero reason or benefit to any person on the server.

[7thGate]

Yes, the devs can. But they don't care, because they're trying to replicate the classic implementation, which had variance. They're actually more likely to make it worse than remove it, as there's a bug report here asking for 14 hour variance: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322950

You can address this with a player agreement, but trying to convince the devs to do this to stop wasting people's time is not a very likely direction for actually accomplishing something.

[Ooloo]

Velious was beat in Kunark gear you don't need to put yourself through any of this hope this helps.

Not exactly true, velious was beaten in gear obtained during velious. But yeah this specific quest is definitely not required to kill any of the velious bosses

[silo32]

Sorry you didn't get warder loot, hope this helps.

You are entitled, to nothing.

Try red

[BigPlays]

The problem with classic is that a lot of shit should have been adjusted once they saw what was going on. Things like Naggy/Vox being on a week spawn cycle was crazy for a server with 1500 people and only 40 doing it with maybe 4-5 items dropping.

If the devs ever played this game like we do they would probably ask themselves why they snorted so much coke.

[Knuckle]

I actually really dont care about the spirit wracked cords, just wanted to get a nice ring upgrade until i get something better later, but bottlenecks like this are anti fun. anti life. no one should have to sit for up to 6 hours and be ready to roll /random 1000 with a 3% chance with a 10 second window to react. Absolute degeneracy.

[zelld52]

I actually really dont care about the spirit wracked cords, just wanted to get a nice ring upgrade until i get something better later, but bottlenecks like this are anti fun. anti life. no one should have to sit for up to 6 hours and be ready to roll /random 1000 with a 3% chance with a 10 second window to react. Absolute degeneracy.


do like the rest of us and avoid this quest, lol

The answer is that the ring isn't gonna make a huge difference. Not unless you're a raid tank or a solo shaman or something. It's kind of just a flex for people who have infinite time to spend semi afk while working from home or not working to wait for the spawn and roll

[Videri]

Uh…OP, have you not heard of the mind goblin, then?

[Fammaden]

The simplest player agreement would just be changing the ten seconds to roll to a longer time frame, which many people have suggested, but degenerate gambling brain players don't want that.

Putting too many qualifiers into an attempted player agreement usually kills it, especially at this individual/low man/non raid level.

[Toxigen]

make angry goblin scouf chorizo

[PatChapp]

Angro goblen

[Toxigen]

oaUrx7VvNG8

someone needs to do the angry version of this lmao

[silo32]

The 10 second rule is legit to stop people from multi logging characters to reroll for a higher win rate. It's fine, wipe the tears the extra +1 wis +1 in +5 mama + 10 hp isn't gonna break you.

[Fammaden]

Yeah sure I don't really give a shit, I've never worked on this quest or done the roll.

[Knuckle]

The 10 second rule is legit to stop people from multi logging characters to reroll for a higher win rate. It's fine, wipe the tears the extra +1 wis +1 in +5 mama + 10 hp isn't gonna break you.

It's not about the stats, its about the fact that we are gate keeping quests/items behind.....what? Whoevers life is the saddest? I work from home and doubt id even catch the roll in time with this on a monitor in my peripheral. The variance is stupid and pointless. Scout works fine, you dont feel bad, and if you lose 60x so what, only took 10 mintues to do your scratch off.

[Castle2.0]

No.

[Tigris67]

Just got nerfed on Oakwynd (live server TLP), going from 3 day spawn to 15 minutes.

[Tunawiggle]

for the love of god plz change it. its a brutal camp.

[silo32]

Sorry you didn't get warder loot

[PatChapp]

Easy fix
Just don't bother

[branamil]

No wonder people are making new projects, imagine the only way to advance your character is to stare at a screen for 80 hours, hoping 10 seconds of those 80 hours your dice roll wins. Just a poorly thought out system, like nearly every other policy in the 1,700 page Anti-Fun Rule Bible.

[PatChapp]

This is a quest for the most socky of poosockers, it's fine to torment them a bit.

[silo32]

Bis item.... Chain...." wahhhhhh I want welfare epics". Come on this is why world of Warcraft was made and designed. So everyone could get legendaries. You are not required to have this item, deserve it, need. Their are better rings and your don't NEED best in slot to kill all the end game stuff here.

Moat Players are carried by a select few. The majority of you are sand bagging warm bodies in raids. An extra 5 hp +2 int +10 mana won't change your game play.

Please stop crying it's pathetic and cringe.

You are welcome.

[Swish]

Sorry you didn't get warder loot

https://i.imgur.com/Sld7owl.gif

[Swish]

No wonder people are making new projects, imagine the only way to advance your character is to stare at a screen for 80 hours, hoping 10 seconds of those 80 hours your dice roll wins. Just a poorly thought out system, like nearly every other policy in the 1,700 page Anti-Fun Rule Bible.

Is there a rule against this kind of comment? ^^

[Knuckle]

Just saying some kind of way to track how many times someone rolls and get a increased prio like +10 to roll stacking. At least minimize everytimes time on that trash. But yeah I stopped rolling on it awhile ago.

[loramin]

Just saying some kind of way to track how many times someone rolls and get a increased prio like +10 to roll stacking. At least minimize everytimes time on that trash. But yeah I stopped rolling on it awhile ago.

This would be even less classic. Random rolls (between 2-3 players) were the standard on live for content disputes. "Leveling up your rolling", by doing lots of random rolls, never was.

(Well, really "don't involve the GMs and just walk away, or wait until the other guy walks away" was the standard. But if people pushed it, and the GM wasn't sure who to award the camp to, they used a random roll (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kunark_Era_Customer_Service_Guidelines#Contested)) .

P99's problem is the number of rollers, and making things less classic won't fundamentally solve that problem ... unless you're talking about instancing (because that amounts to "lots of players want X? make more X").

In truth, there is no solution on the current classic-locked boxes! But instead of trying to be unclasic ... P99 should double-down on being P99.

The staff have promised strongly hinted that we'll someday get a fresh server and/or custom classic-themed Blue content (which would give everyone sitting at the rolls something better to do). That is how you solve the rolling problem on P99.

[Knuckle]

This would be even less classic. Random rolls (between 2-3 players) were the standard on live for content disputes. "Leveling up your rolling", by doing lots of random rolls, never was.

(Well, really "don't involve the GMs and just walk away, or wait until the other guy walks away" was the standard. But if people pushed it, and the GM wasn't sure who to award the camp to, they used a random roll (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kunark_Era_Customer_Service_Guidelines#Contested)) .

P99's problem is the number of rollers, and making things less classic won't fundamentally solve that problem ... unless you're talking about instancing (because that amounts to "lots of players want X? make more X").

In truth, there is no solution on the current classic-locked boxes! But instead of trying to be unclasic ... P99 should double-down on being P99.

The staff have promised strongly hinted that we'll someday get a fresh server and/or custom classic-themed Blue content (which would give everyone sitting at the rolls something better to do). That is how you solve the rolling problem on P99.

I don't think a signficant part of the classic everquest population involved GM's in camp disputes to roll, so not sure what part of that population feels nostalgia around /random with 50 dudes over 3 years to complete one quest. I think a player implemented solution the way there are discussions around urn camp are probably the best way for everyone to get their ring in a reduced amount of time without instancing. Some people are luckier than others. Don't think it feels great waiting 3-4 years for a middling upgrade because of dice rolls. That's my thought.

[loramin]

I don't think a signficant part of the classic everquest population involved GM's in camp disputes to roll, so not sure what part of that population feels nostalgia around /random with 50 dudes over 3 years to complete one quest.

I agree! Look, we have an unclassic situation on P99 (a server firmly committed to being as classic as possible). There wasn't "50 dudes" waiting on live.

Hell, I did the entire quest on live (post-Velious though; virtually no one did it in Velious, because it came out at the end of that era ... and by the time most people were doing it, it wasn't at all top-end gear). I never ran into a single other player! It's been ages, but I think DS was just sitting up when I got to her. To me that's classic.

The fundamental problem is that the box has been locked in Velious for years after Luclin should have come out. We can only make the best ("most classic") solution out of that bad situation. That won't be instances or any other increase in the number of SWCs released ... which leaves us with random rolls.

Some people are luckier than others. Don't think it feels great waiting 3-4 years for a middling upgrade because of dice rolls.

I feel you ... but it's like being bummed because you're not winning the lottery: the only solution is to keep buying tickets or change your life goals. There is no better/more classic solution to this problem ... except ...

a fresh server and/or custom classic-themed Blue content (which would give everyone sitting at the rolls something better to do). That is how you solve the rolling problem on P99.

[zelld52]

i think people need to get over these "BiS" items that require dozens of hours of poopsocking. its not gonna make or break your toon. chances are youll be fine without it.

Increased chances of youll be fine without it if youre a warmbody on a raid. you could wear banded or cloth and be fine in those situations

[Knuckle]

i think people need to get over these "BiS" items that require dozens of hours of poopsocking. its not gonna make or break your toon. chances are youll be fine without it.

Increased chances of youll be fine without it if youre a warmbody on a raid. you could wear banded or cloth and be fine in those situations

I think arguing that people want the rule changed because they want "bis" is irrelevant. It could be for any reason at all. But I would say when you remove player agency completely to a dice roll. It would make all players happier if each time they showed up their odds increased via weighted roll or whatever the urn program is.

To reiterate, I stopped rolling for this over a year ago. I am not mad, just annoyed. Annoyed that it's just a huge waste of time to pursue it. If I really wanted spirit wracked cords I'd math out how to make 250k or whatever and MQ it to my monk. It's just not worth it to me as an item.

In EQ you camp items, you raid for items, but your time invested yields something. With Angry goblin you could roll for years with 0% increased probability of winning. It removes the EQ aspect from EQ, is what I am saying.

[loramin]

In EQ you camp items, you raid for items, but your time invested yields something.

Except, it doesn't. You don't sit at a camp, getting points for sitting there, until you accrue enough points to get the item you want. Maybe in some modern EQ expansion, but not in the classic era.

What do you do? Keep taking random chances that have no connection to any previous chance, until you get what you want. Even if you raid and accrue DKP outside the game, inside the game you still need a random chance for the item you want to drop.

That's how the game we all love works: no points that improve your odds when you take lots of random chances, just equally random chances until you "win".

[Castle2.0]

/list was better. Only people who really wanted it got it. #classic

[Estrang87]

Except, it doesn't. You don't sit at a camp, getting points for sitting there, until you accrue enough points to get the item you want. Maybe in some modern EQ expansion, but not in the classic era.

What do you do? Keep taking random chances that have no connection to any previous chance, until you get what you want. Even if you raid and accrue DKP outside the game, inside the game you still need a random chance for the item you want to drop.

That's how the game we all love works: no points that improve your odds when you take lots of random chances, just equally random chances until you "win".

You increase your odds of getting items by physically killing mobs and getting named mobs to pop. You also, to a degree, have agency over how quickly this occurs as your character grows more powerful. Additionally, at best, you only compete against yoursef for a fixed % chance of the rare drop or at worst 5 other players all working towards said item.


Physical engagement leads to greater odds. Nothing influences /random (that i am aware of). The mob is on a fixed timer, and you must compete with dozens of players with no way to increase your odds. I dont really know why there would need to be an argument of saying we need to keep it that way to preserve an everquest experience, and why it needs to be more unpleasant than necessary. People that make more rolls or can get some kind of camping currency like the urn system makes perfect sense and i dont know why resisting the idea of putting more time in results in greater odds could possibly be a bad thing.

[loramin]

Additionally, at best, you only compete against yoursef for a fixed % chance of the rare drop or at worst 5 other players all working towards said item.

Yup, there's only five people on the whole server that you have to compete with for White Dragonscale Boots, Sal`Varae`s Robe of Darkness, Essence of Nature, etc. :rolleyes: Just five.

Hell, even Scout roll has a lot more than five people at it, and it's not (effectively) Luclin-era loot like the SWC (ie. better than 99.9% of the Velious era stuff).

Look, for most players the random roll truly has nothing to do with them not getting an SWC! If SWC was a drop, the camp would locked down 24/7, and 95+% of the people who are now rolling for it would have virtually no chance of ever seeing it. And if it was /list (1.0), it would look like the list for Holgresh Elder Beads or the Manastone (ie. forget about sleeping for four days).

can get some kind of camping currency like the urn system makes perfect sense

You are absolutely, 100% correct. With raiding, we have DKP to make it so that when the random roll comes up in your favor, your past participation in raids can assure that you get the item.

If only the game already had such a point system built-in. A system where you could go do other camps that other people want, and in return they would do the random rolls you don't want to do. Only it's a little tricky to find just one item that someone would trade for doing all those random rolls ... maybe you could acquire a bunch of items, and then trade them to other player for points, and then collect enough points to trade them to a single player for an SWC?

If only EQ had such a system already ...

[Estrang87]

Raids are influenced by participation over time. I was referring to solo/group content since we have participation points that give us the ability to outbid our competition via personal agency over time. In solo/group content you are competing against yourself or at most 5 other players. All of the above examples increase your odds by participating, with raiding being the most agency. The scout roll is the same thing as angry goblin. It would equally benefit from increased odds/bids per roll participated. Its not as frustrating because its a shorter bottle neck since you can lottery 2x per day, thats only difference. Ring war is same thing(ring 8 example). Annoying, but 1x per day. Would benefit from increased odds the longer youve been rolling for it.

[cd288]

Except, it doesn't. You don't sit at a camp, getting points for sitting there, until you accrue enough points to get the item you want. Maybe in some modern EQ expansion, but not in the classic era.

What do you do? Keep taking random chances that have no connection to any previous chance, until you get what you want. Even if you raid and accrue DKP outside the game, inside the game you still need a random chance for the item you want to drop.

That's how the game we all love works: no points that improve your odds when you take lots of random chances, just equally random chances until you "win".

Agreed

[Knuckle]

I disagree. There is a 100% chance that a raid mob drops raid loot. The rarity can vary obviously, but it has a loot table. In a DKP environment, you increase your odds of success over time when that item drops, there is no such system in the blind lottery that the goblin is at. 1 day, 5 years. You have no impact on probability. Is there a possibility that a specific item never drops off a raid mob, ever? Yes, but that's being pedantic. There is a chance I can't login to play EQ because my internet connection drops.

If you are trying to say the 16% odds of winning a roll in a group for a named mobs item are the same as the angry goblin you are smoking crack. Is the angry goblin agreement better than no agreement? Sure, but it still sucks, and has room for improvement. Having people get +5 or +10 to a roll each time they attend more realistically simulates the time spent camping an item. And no, I don't know anyone who cant get a FBSS camping frenzy for 3 years straight, because the odds are weighted against repeat failure, which is why they have a PERCENT CHANCE drop rate greater than 0%.

What I am saying is the odds at angry goblin are shit, and there is no reason you can't have a system where the more time you spend, the closer you are to achieving your goal.

[shovelquest]

According to the principles of probability, over a large enough sample size, random events will average out. So, your time invested does yield something.

[loramin]

there is no such system in the blind lottery that the goblin is at

If only the game already had such a point system built-in. A system where you could go do other camps that other people want, and in return they would do the random rolls you don't want to do. Only it's a little tricky to find just one item that someone would trade for doing all those random rolls ... maybe you could acquire a bunch of items, and then trade them to other player for points, and then collect enough points to trade them to a single player for an SWC?

If only EQ had such a system already ...

[Toxigen]

enable pvp and no CSR

problem solved

[Smedy]

something is not conveniently setup for my liking time to

https://i.imgur.com/8viPrBD.jpeg

that being said, everquest without pvp is plain stupid, there is no fun to be had when every camp is taken and there's no mechanic that can resolve camp disputes, you're telling me i would login and travel all the way to camp jboots only to discover after 40 minutes of travel there's a 6 man queue to camp an item from a mob that spawns perhaps 4 times every 24hours? that's a bad game, enable pvp and fix all problems.

[Jimjam]

As a Brit I have to say queueing is the very best in game design. I’ve never felt more realised.

[Knuckle]

According to the principles of probability, over a large enough sample size, random events will average out. So, your time invested does yield something.

Sure.

[Knuckle]

something is not conveniently setup for my liking time to

https://i.imgur.com/8viPrBD.jpeg

that being said, everquest without pvp is plain stupid, there is no fun to be had when every camp is taken and there's no mechanic that can resolve camp disputes, you're telling me i would login and travel all the way to camp jboots only to discover after 40 minutes of travel there's a 6 man queue to camp an item from a mob that spawns perhaps 4 times every 24hours? that's a bad game, enable pvp and fix all problems.

It's time to wipe it clean - goblin agreement style.

Smedy I do miss the PVP's, but EQ is EQ and still a fun game, just has a lot of shit mechanics when PVE only. I've gotten to engage with a lot of content I would have otherwise ignored so I can appreciate the time I've spent on green.

[Knuckle]

Dear Loramin,

I can appreciate that your solution is to not engage with the content and farm plat for the item. I would prefer an alternate method to the less than ideal player made agreement, which does exist, and has room for improvement much like Drusella is done. There is no reason why you should have to resist someone improving an EXISTING player made agreement. I do not understand your defense of it. It's not constructive.

Also I'd like to reiterate that I do not care significantly, just enough to get conversation going on forums. I stopped camping this thing a long time ago it's not a big deal, BUT I have the need to suggest better things that increase satisfaction in the game.

[shovelquest]

The server needs a government made of PC's who roleplay hardcore as gnomes and their council should decide all rules.

[loramin]

There is no reason why you should have to resist someone improving an EXISTING player made agreement. I do not understand your defense of it. It's not constructive.

Because what you are proposing isn't an improvement: it's you trying to do something that goes against the spirit of classic EverQuest because you haven't rolled well and refuse to just earn "points" towards acquiring the item you want another way.

BTW, it's also never going to happen. I say that as someone who helped make the original agreements, and who knows how difficult it is to get consent from everyone at those rolls. What you're asking for is for anyone new to the roll to have a lesser chance: why would they agree to that?

[cd288]

What you're asking for is for anyone new to the roll to have a lesser chance: why would they agree to that?

While I don't disagree with your overall comment, I think people would agree to this because it means eventually they'll have a much higher chance. Somewhat analogous to why people accept DKP as a raid currency concept. Lower chance of getting items in the beginning/when you're low on DKP; higher chance once you have contributed/participated more because you have more DKP than some of the others who are also looking for that drop.

[shovelquest]

A system that rewards effort and not random luck? why would anyone work for a living instead of playing the lotto??

I'd much rather participate in something that I am able to calculate the investment/reward than worry about spending my life rolling 1's on something Ive had to work hard for.

Not that I care about the angry goblin just saying that I think that system sounds appealing.

[Jimjam]

Either way the """""effort""""" is show up a bunch of times and eventually win.

[shovelquest]

It's like real life!

Which I am sure anyone reading this feels is stacked against them :o

So we invented socialism.

And if you play games and are against socialism you're a bad guy but if you ask for it with player made agreements you're the bad guy.

Sometimes I don't get you gamers.

[loramin]

Here's the thing: no agreement is going to make more goblins spawn. That's what you all really want, but since you can't make it happen you're trying to trick others into giving their chance at a goblin to you.

By definition, any system you propose will have winners and losers. By definition, half the people at the current roll will be losers if the system changes (... and in all honestly, I think some of the people who think they would be "winners" will actually be losers in the new system).

So you're welcome to try and get half the people at the agreements to vote against their own interests (and against classic EQ) ... but again, I don't think it's going to happen.

[Swish]

I think we need more rules.

[bcbrown]

BTW, it's also never going to happen. I say that as someone who helped make the original agreements, and who knows how difficult it is to get consent from everyone at those rolls. What you're asking for is for anyone new to the roll to have a lesser chance: why would they agree to that?

Disregarding the challenging bookkeeping requirements, I think there's a decent argument to make that the player dynamics would incentivize such a change. Assuming the systems starts from scratch at the moment of agreement, everyone who is voting is actually going to end up being in the "old guard" when the agreement has been in place a while. It's the people who can't yet vote because they aren't yet rolling who end up penalized.

By definition, any system you propose will have winners and losers. By definition, half the people at the current roll will be losers if the system changes (... and in all honestly, I think some of the people who think they would be "winners" will actually be losers in the new system).

I don't think it's necessarily true that half the people will be losers in the new system. Who do you think would end up being losers?

The way I'm thinking about it, you would be less likely to win after only a few rolls, but also it would be less likely that it would take very very many rolls. It would reduce the tails of the probability distribution, or reduce the variance. The number of rolls you'd have to attend in order to win would end up being more predictable and consistent. I think everyone wins under this change, except I don't see how it could be implemented and operated.

[loramin]

everyone who is voting is actually going to end up being in the "old guard" when the agreement has been in place a while. It's the people who can't yet vote because they aren't yet rolling who end up penalized.

The root of this scheme: a current roller wants to screw the chances of future rollers to increase their own ;)

... except, as I keep repeating, it won't work. Player agreements require consensus, and the staff only enforces them as long as there is consensus.

As soon as people realize they're getting screwed, they're just going to go back to the click fest. If it's just one guy, the GMs might step in, but when it's 5? 10? 20?

If I actually thought this idea had any chance whatsoever, I'd be worried that it would lead to disrupting the existing agreement (which was painful to get established) ... but again it has zero chance.


I don't think it's necessarily true that half the people will be losers in the new system. Who do you think would end up being losers?

This is not complicated math: every goblin I get is a goblin you don't get, and again there are no (more) new goblins entering the system. No matter how you shift the system, there will by definition be losers: everyone who doesn't get the goblin.

The beauty of the current system is that everyone who participates is equally a loser ;) Until they win that is.

except I don't see how it could be implemented and operated.

A turd cherry on this turd Sunday of an idea.

[Castle2.0]

/list fixes this.

Go back to work.

[Salaryman]

pvp for it, RED 99

[shovelquest]

By definition, any system you propose will have winners and losers.

Yeah no doi. That's why they want to get points so the more losses they have wont continue to accrue while some rich kid gets it first time.

It's called sociaism.

Why do you right wingers hate socialism!!

[BigChief]

pvp for it, RED 99

Both people on it?

[cd288]

Here's the thing: no agreement is going to make more goblins spawn. That's what you all really want, but since you can't make it happen you're trying to trick others into giving their chance at a goblin to you.

By definition, any system you propose will have winners and losers. By definition, half the people at the current roll will be losers if the system changes (... and in all honestly, I think some of the people who think they would be "winners" will actually be losers in the new system).

So you're welcome to try and get half the people at the agreements to vote against their own interests (and against classic EQ) ... but again, I don't think it's going to happen.

It's not really purely against their own interests though. It's reducing their chance now in order to guarantee a much higher chance later. I'm not doing Angry Goblin, but personally if I were I would view that as a much better trade off than just perpetually rolling.

People do this with the URN system for example. It's not like it's totally unheard of for there to be a player agreement that essentially awards you DKP for being at the camp.

Seems like a pretty fair system to me. And it's technically not unclassic if it's a player agreement since there were player agreements in classic (it would be unclassic if the staff just decided to create this system).

[Toxigen]

the difference w/ drusella is that you need people to hold the camp for a long ass time

angry is a roll, sorry you dont got SWC

[PatChapp]

I bought every piece of this quest

Skargus head mq,urn mq
Friend of mine mq a sinew for me

Imagine not just buying it all,what a nightmare.

[Knuckle]

At this point im more amused at the thought of people being ANGRY their odds of winning the roll increase after each loss...Yeah no ones going to feel that way.

[Duik]

All pvping for it would mean is that the people always getting it would shift.
Which ever guild/group of people that brings the boom wins.
Still a sweatfest.
Also red players would infect the pve servers with their special brand of entitlement. Sure pvping is a skill. But unless its IRL pvp it is only hollow elf points victories.

Pvp works for red. Lolocaust if 60 max pop is "working".
Also also, if ya wanna pvp on blue ya can book it or /duel.

Off ya pop ya dress wearing ranger.

[Jimjam]

Off ya pop ya dress wearing ranger.

My head canon it is a poncho or full cloak, cos what other long attire would be suitable for rangering? A robe would be just about as practical as high heels.

[Knuckle]

My head canon it is a poncho or full cloak, cos what other long attire would be suitable for rangering? A robe would be just about as practical as high heels.

Maybe a desert ranger

[Jimjam]

Maybe a desert ranger

I like that. I love the vanilla art but they dropped the ball by not giving PC humans an option for a wizened grey bearded face. Woulda suited this build (and of courae gandalf/merlin clones).

[winter888]

Realistically, the agreement should be that everyone meets up at the start of the window and rolls. Whoever wins the roll gets to turn in to the goblin. If they fail to turn in to the goblin within 5 minutes of him spawning or lose to Skargus, he goes FFA. Whoever kills Skargus needs to announce the TOD in shout so people can afk pick up the next roll time or be in violation of the player agreement and lose their skargus head.

Most people would just do the roll and log off, the only person that has to sock the roll is the winner. Some people would stay to try and snipe in case the winner can't kill it for some reason, guaranteeing it doesn't just stay up. Everyone can stop wasting huge amounts of time for no reason at this camp.

I really doubt we'll get this or something like this though, its too hard to get people to agree to change anything.

This solution seems the right way to go. Make an player agreement based on this please. The 5 minutes seems too short tho. Could be 30mins just like Ragefire turn in.

[Reiwa]

I agree that the goblin is angry. That much is plain and evident.

But why is the goblin angry?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Knuckle]

This solution seems the right way to go. Make an player agreement based on this please. The 5 minutes seems too short tho. Could be 30mins just like Ragefire turn in.

Yeah agreed, only one person has to sacrifice their souls for the length of that window. I would actually show up to roll for that no doubt. And if you want to really shock the hardcore nerds, just remove the 8 hour variance window (does anyone ever feel good about variance windows, for non raid FTE'ers, on non raid targets where you don't engage on pop??)....

[loramin]

does anyone ever feel good about variance windows, for non raid FTE'ers, on non raid targets where you don't engage on pop??

I feel good about a Luclin-era reward on a Velious-locked server being unusually and classically difficult to attain, yes.

[Knuckle]

I feel good about a Luclin-era reward on a Velious-locked server being unusually and classically difficult to attain, yes.

Difficult to obtain, and random to obtain, are two different things though.

[Zabditin]

Since I'm thinking about going after the angry goblin at some point in the future, and I just learned about how the camp is handled today, I was doing some forum searching. I found this chat thread, and I'm wondering if any policy update could possibly happen.

I know this thread has been without a post for over a year, but I thought I would post here since it's the first angry goblin related thread I came upon.

[loramin]

Since I'm thinking about going after the angry goblin at some point in the future, and I just learned about how the camp is handled today, I was doing some forum searching. I found this chat thread, and I'm wondering if any policy update could possibly happen.

I know this thread has been without a post for over a year, but I thought I would post here since it's the first angry goblin related thread I came upon.

Both goblins, angry and shady, did not have their rules set by the staff. When they were first added to the server, the first person to click on them got them, and it was a race to do that ... a stupid, annoying race, that favored people with better connections.

So, for everyone goblin spawn (starting with Shady) a few of us showed up and said "this is dumb: let's all agree to do this like any other loot roll, with /random". At first some agreed, and some didn't, but with each (lame, first to click) goblin, more and more people got on board. Finally, all but one or two holdouts agreed ... and eventually those holdouts realized they were fighting 20+ people, and were being jerks, so they caved.

The point is, it was a player-made agreement. After we did it awhile, the staff decided "well if everyone likes it this way, we're not going to let one jerk ruin it", and they started enforcing the agreement.

If you want to change the policy, it's easier than any other rule in the game (but not easy). Changing another rule requires bribing Rogean or a head GM ;). Changing a player agreement "just" requires convincing everyone who shows up to roll that the new policy is best ... and then you have to keep doing it for X? weeks, at which point the staff will enforce it.

[cd288]

Or the staff could just change it if they wanted to. You don't need everyone to agree.

[Castle2.0]

Easy solution. Use proceeds from the sale of one of your manastones to buy the ring. Problem solved.

[loramin]

Or the staff could just change it if they wanted to. You don't need everyone to agree.

Good luck bribing them to ignore the server's wishes and change it to how you think it should work :rolleyes:

[Goregasmic]

Good luck bribing them to ignore the server's wishes and change it to how you think it should work :rolleyes:

Well right now it only serves the people who have 7 hours to stare at a screen.

In terms of gameplay that's beyond retarded.

[cd288]

Good luck bribing them to ignore the server's wishes and change it to how you think it should work :rolleyes:

I don't give a shit how it should work or not. Just saying that this whole pompous stance you have about how some player agreement you were a part of can't be changed without all players agreeing is untrue. This has happened in the past on P99...if there's a decent number of complaints about something, the staff have taken a look at it even if there's also a decent number of people who like it the way it is.

Ironically, it's actually the reverse of your stance: In order to 100% guarantee the staff would never change a player agreement, essentially 100% of the players need to still be in favor of the agreement.

[loramin]

My stance has never been "the staff is powerless": you are arguing with a straw man of your own creation.

[Swish]

Make it a pvp zone.

https://i.imgur.com/iiRgX8H.png

[hatterene]

Disgusting camp I stopped doing it

[cd288]

My stance has never been "the staff is powerless": you are arguing with a straw man of your own creation.

"Changing a player agreement "just" requires convincing everyone who shows up to roll that the new policy is best ... and then you have to keep doing it for X? weeks, at which point the staff will enforce it."

[loramin]

"Changing a player agreement "just" requires convincing everyone who shows up to roll that the new policy is best ... and then you have to keep doing it for X? weeks, at which point the staff will enforce it."

As a player, everything you quoted is 100% true ... and maybe you missed the context but ... this is a forum of players talking to players.

Of course the staff can change anything they want! But if you were a normal human reading this thread like a normal person, that would just be assumed ... not a reason to attack another player (for speaking the truth).

[cd288]

As a player, everything you quoted is 100% true ... and maybe you missed the context but ... this is a forum of players talking to players.

Of course the staff can change anything they want! But if you were a normal human reading this thread like a normal person, that would just be assumed ... not a reason to attack another player (for speaking the truth).

Ok thanks for confirming that you don't need to convince all the other players, some players just need to convince the staff

[loramin]

Yup CD, you've "won" the made-up argument no one but you was having ...

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmM0_NTDfgAgjxvP80UwljouXNa-EidiWf6ljd8sIU2g&s=10

[sammoHung]

Insufferable

[cd288]

I love interactions with Loramin where if he feels like things are going the wrong way he just makes up that his argument wasn't what he was arguing and you're being absurd for even suggesting that it was.

It happens I would say like at least 50% of the time someone argues with him. It's pretty hilarious.

[loramin]

So ... normal people were having a normal conversation about what players can do to change player agreements. You came out of left field, and started talking about what no one else was talking about (and what everyone else already knew): that the staff can do whatever they want with their own server.

I never once disagreed! But somehow you had an argument with me ... and won?

Meanwhile, last I checked no player in the history of the project has ever bribed (or otherwise influenced the staff) to change a player agreement ... so technically you're still losing the argument (that you're only having with yourself).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I love interactions with Loramin where if he feels like things are going the wrong way he just makes up that his argument wasn't what he was arguing and you're being absurd for even suggesting that it was.

It happens I would say like at least 50% of the time someone argues with him. It's pretty hilarious.

Yeah this happens often with Loramin. He is difficult to talk to at the best of times.

[loramin]

This message is hidden because DeathsSilkyMist is on your ignore list.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yes Loramin, it is a good thing you have me on ignore. It reduces your spamming of random threads with unhinged nonsense like you used to. I am sorry your lack of self control requires the ignore list.

I also find it amusing when Loramin defends himself on these forums, while he has repeatedly suggested you shouldn't defend yourself on these forums. He is the typical "rules for thee but not for me" kind of poster.

[cd288]

Loramin: "This message is hidden because DeathsSilkyMist is on your ignore list"

Proving my point lol

[WarpathEQ]

What would really bring the P99 forums full circle is DSM ignoring Loramin and then them both starting a thread that is nothing but them replying to each other with ignore list messages.

Then the rest of the threads would actually be about the topic in the subject line again. Something we've been missing out on for years.

[WarpathEQ]

Ironically, it's actually the reverse of your stance: In order to 100% guarantee the staff would never change a player agreement, essentially 100% of the players need to still be in favor of the agreement.

Not really true. There was a unanimous thumbs down from the server regarding changing the level requirement for scout from 55 to 46 and yet Blistig randomly decided to change it anyway despite not 1 single person voting in favor of it.

The best part is it was so poorly documented that I was going after people under 55 and under the belief that someone did something shady to change the wiki to sneak in their vox bots. It took a great deal of time using discord searches to find the 1 obscure post Blistig made referencing the change to confirm it was a real and valid change that happened (and that there was 0 approval from the server for it).

[cd288]

Not really true. There was a unanimous thumbs down from the server regarding changing the level requirement for scout from 55 to 46 and yet Blistig randomly decided to change it anyway despite not 1 single person voting in favor of it.

The best part is it was so poorly documented that I was going after people under 55 and under the belief that someone did something shady to change the wiki to sneak in their vox bots. It took a great deal of time using discord searches to find the 1 obscure post Blistig made referencing the change to confirm it was a real and valid change that happened (and that there was 0 approval from the server for it).

Interesting. So it's even more towards the overall point I was making, which is that the staff don't necessarily care about player agreements at all if the staff doesn't like the agreement.


What would really bring the P99 forums full circle is DSM ignoring Loramin and then them both starting a thread that is nothing but them replying to each other with ignore list messages.

Then the rest of the threads would actually be about the topic in the subject line again. Something we've been missing out on for years.

Just make a forum rule that you can't take threads down winding, pointless, and off topic or semi-off topic discussions via obtuse debates. Then Loramin would have half the comments on the forum that he has.

[Ciderpress]

I wish angry didn't spawn on quakes, cause quakes are almost always at night and it makes the next window suck shit. Whenever he naturally rolls around to a sane window it quakes and then it's back to the all-nighter misery fest. It's very frustrating when you have to wait 3 days to even attempt it, and we're at like 2.9 days and you're at the store or something and it quakes. There goes your angry gob attempt for the next three days, and oh btw the new window will be like 12am to 7am. If his window was unaffected by quakes it would at least be somewhat more predictable and thus less soul crushing than it already is.

People often suggest changing the agreement so that everyone just shows up and rolls when the window opens, so only the winner has to sit there and wait and then find his own help to kill skargus but then all the other people who lost the roll and left would have to figure out when the actual hand in happens by the winner to get a new TOD for the next window. At least with the current system if you wanna tap out and go to bed you can just get a log with the hand in text to know the exact tod for the next one.

How did they handle it on live? I quit during luclin and I don't think I ever even heard of a spirit wracked cord on my server

[feniin]

How did they handle it on live? I quit during luclin and I don't think I ever even heard of a spirit wracked cord on my server
First come first served.

[loramin]

How did they handle it on live? I quit during luclin and I don't think I ever even heard of a spirit wracked cord on my server

On live there was no competition for this quest, because live had Luclin loot, which was much better. This quest is uniquely popular here because it's Luclin-era loot on a Velious-locked server.

Source: Loramin 1.0 did the quest on live during Luclin, and never once rolled for any of the NPCs

[DeathsSilkyMist]

On live there was no competition for this quest, because live had Luclin loot, which was much better. This quest is uniquely popular here because it's Luclin-era loot on a Velious-locked server.

Source: Loramin 1.0 did the quest on live during Luclin, and never once rolled for any of the NPCs

Indeed. Live Everquest was cranking out expansion packs, so players were moving on to new content more often. Players also expected new expansions to come out, so they probably didn't sweat as much over not getting loot, since the next expansion would presumably have better loot anyway.

P99 doesn't have this dynamic, so existing popular camps have much more competition.