Quillmane spawn

[BigPlays]

So I have been reading the guides and watching videos on how to get QM to spawn. After watching this video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZIuc6hKYrw&t=3801s

it seems like you pretty much have to kill any and every spawn that is on that wiki list. You also need a ranger with max tracking and probably a few friends to boot.

Before the "improvement" people farmed this non stop. This was when the server was still fresh-ish. Now that we are basically at EoL, we now need to spend hours killing trash to try and get it to spawn.

I just want it for my monk but I pity the poor mages who need this for their epic. Can we revert this back? Does not seem fair to others when kingdom pretty much owned this zone, got all their cloaks now we must endure ridiculous mechanics to get a cloak.

[Ooloo]

Quillmane is supposed to be rare and hard to get. People in 1999 were absolutely not selling "lev cloak loot rights" like happens here. And epics are supposed to be hard to get also. And also shamans can make lev potions for melee classes. I don't see a problem.

[Croco]

Quillmane is supposed to be rare and hard to get. People in 1999 were absolutely not selling "lev cloak loot rights" like happens here. And epics are supposed to be hard to get also. And also shamans can make lev potions for melee classes. I don't see a problem.

Quill was rare and hard to get back in 1999 because people had no idea how to spawn her. When you have 20+ years worth of knowledge about how the spawn works it will inevitably get easier. Just like all the epics. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube and adding convoluted and unclassic changes to attempt to negate the proliferation of information is a losing battle.

[Ooloo]

Quill was rare and hard to get back in 1999 because people had no idea how to spawn her. When you have 20+ years worth of knowledge about how the spawn works it will inevitably get easier. Just like all the epics. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube and adding convoluted and unclassic changes to attempt to negate the proliferation of information is a losing battle.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the quillmane spawn mechanics from 1999 were ever documented. The implementations of quill on p99 have basically been improvised by the devs. Plus it was changed within the last year, so which version was the classic version?

[Croco]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the quillmane spawn mechanics from 1999 were ever documented. The implementations of quill on p99 have basically been improvised by the devs. Plus it was changed within the last year, so which version was the classic version?

You would have to ask the dev team where they got their data for the version we use to have. There was a very informative youtube interview with the OG eq live dev that designed quill originally. He specifically states in the interview that a lot of things back then were never intended to be as rare as they were, quill being one of them.

[Smoofers]

Sorry you don't got float

[loramin]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the quillmane spawn mechanics from 1999 were ever documented. The implementations of quill on p99 have basically been improvised by the devs. Plus it was changed within the last year, so which version was the classic version?

Actually, I'm pretty sure the spawn mechanics were documented. I'm too lazy to find it, but if you dig through the bug forums you should find a post that links to some other forum, where a former EQ developer explains how Quillmane's original mechanics work.

As I understand it, the current P99 mechanic is much more similar to the original classic mechanics than what we used to have previously ... but again, that bug thread would have more details.

[Naethyn]

I’m happy things get worse and harder to get it’s just like lord of the rings.

[beev]

It doesnt take hours to find the placeholder and you dont need a max track ranger.. it helps but having a druid with a pet is more useful imo. Guilds farm multiple lev cloaks in one night.

[BigPlays]

You would have to ask the dev team where they got their data for the version we use to have. There was a very informative youtube interview with the OG eq live dev that designed quill originally. He specifically states in the interview that a lot of things back then were never intended to be as rare as they were, quill being one of them.

We’re they not intended because of broken mechanics or was it done purposefully to boost subs? Again I believe that many things in this game are intentionally rare because they wanted to ensure people stay subbed. Regardless of how the devs wanted it to be, the higher ups I am sure had a say and I am sure the penny pinchers were telling devs to do things to ensure people stayed interested and engaged for as long as possible.

EQ is literally the carrot and the stick.

My point being is that lots of people got the cloak easily due to the prior mechanics. I remember doing it on my other character and got a cloak in like an hour for 6 people. I would have been fine with changing the mechanics on a new server, but someone decided to say oh this is wrong it works this way and the devs just changed it.

[cadoipi]

Gratz on legs. Hope this helps.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

It doesnt take hours to find the placeholder and you dont need a max track ranger.. it helps but having a druid with a pet is more useful imo. Guilds farm multiple lev cloaks in one night.

That's gonna be a long, long raid night. Drop rate means lots of nights you will get one. Some nights, none.

I got two cloaks on blue. On my Sk and my enchanter.

I farmed the chanter one solo. Big balls baby. And, farming during off hours on a family holiday. Only way to roll.

Everyone needs a peggy cloak. Should be any self-respecting guild's leading requirement, imo.

You can't click levi cloak from inventory you do not know how to eq. You still need plactice.

[druidbob]

That's gonna be a long, long raid night. Drop rate means lots of nights you will get one. Some nights, none.

I got two cloaks on blue. On my Sk and my enchanter.

I farmed the chanter one solo. Big balls baby. And, farming during off hours on a family holiday. Only way to roll.

Everyone needs a peggy cloak. Should be any self-respecting guild's leading requirement, imo.

You can't click levi cloak from inventory you do not know how to eq. You still need plactice.

Enchanter I can understand, but why subject yourself to that for an SK? Just get the chardok earring and call it a day

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Enchanter I can understand, but why subject yourself to that for an SK? Just get the chardok earring and call it a day

Exactly. You have seen straight through to the crazy heart of all this stuff.

What's the term? Immersion. It's like lightning. It always gets me down. Because it's free and I'm me, lost and never found. Think some dwarf bard said that.

[Knuckle]

Quillmane is supposed to be rare and hard to get. People in 1999 were absolutely not selling "lev cloak loot rights" like happens here. And epics are supposed to be hard to get also. And also shamans can make lev potions for melee classes. I don't see a problem.

Yes except the problem is now you need a ranger because the tracking is even harder than before. And now the lootrights are 13-15k. Also this is a mage epic camp item, so its bottlenecked even more. Also its easier for people to "steal" your quillmane you are popping. It's awful and should be reverted.

[BigPlays]

Yes except the problem is now you need a ranger because the tracking is even harder than before. And now the lootrights are 13-15k. Also this is a mage epic camp item, so its bottlenecked even more. Also its easier for people to "steal" your quillmane you are popping. It's awful and should be reverted.

It went from 4k now 10k+ since the change. And because of FTE rules, if you are not sitting on top of QM when it spawns, good luck. I watched the video of the guy who created the spawns in SK. And yeah, QM was part of a handful of low level trash mobs spawn cycles. He went on to say that these spawns were supposed to be "oh look here is something different" and not meant to be farmed.

But people farm these things. It went against everything they intended the game to be. Then they went ahead and made it part of the mage epic. The dev team should have adjusted loot to be in line with how people were playing back then. I firmly believe the reason all of this stayed rare as hell was to make sure that people kept paying that $9.99 monthly fee. I think only Brad wanted shit to be this hard...the devs thought otherwise.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Stealing a carefully spawned quillmane should handled at guild level though. No reason guilds can't agree members can't fucking KS a quillmane spawn.


You sit three people at the spawn points. Trackers and killers work the spawns. If anyone steals that kind of spawn, if the players can't get that player's reputation jacked, I feel sorry for ya'll.

Guild leaders and officers need to do some basics, ya know? Do they?

[Ennewi]

I firmly believe the reason all of this stayed rare as hell was to make sure that people kept paying that $9.99 monthly fee. I think only Brad wanted shit to be this hard...the devs thought otherwise.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/everquest-drops-price/1100-2447175/

EverQuest Drops Price
Looking to leap into the world of massively multiplayer gaming? 989 makes it a little easier.

By Micheal Mullen on April 27, 2000 at 6:42PM PDT Comments

989 Studios has announced that it has dropped the price of its retail version of EverQuest to US$39.99, just in time to add more gamers to its massively multiplayer online universe. After the free trial month, players will pay US$9.89 per month to access the game. Currently, the company has an active subscriber base of over 150,000 players and has hosted up to 40,000 players at one time.

[Ooloo]

I don't think quillmane (and the cloak drop specifically) being rare was some kind of money making scheme. You might as well just call the entire game a money making scheme if you're gonna be that cynical.

It's rare because a regeantless levitation cloak that every class can click whenever they want is a hugely powerful item to have. And yes it's for the mage epic, and epics are supposed to be *hard to get*. Not easy to get. Or they wouldn't be "epic" quests in the first place. Many epic quests have highly contested bottleneck items that's kind of the point.

[druidbob]

I don't think quillmane (and the cloak drop specifically) being rare was some kind of money making scheme. You might as well just call the entire game a money making scheme if you're gonna be that cynical.

It's rare because a regeantless levitation cloak that every class can click whenever they want is a hugely powerful item to have. And yes it's for the mage epic, and epics are supposed to be *hard to get*. Not easy to get. Or they wouldn't be "epic" quests in the first place. Many epic quests have highly contested bottleneck items that's kind of the point.

Unless you are a monk or rogue, where you are basically given your epic as soon as you hit 46.

[BigPlays]

I don't think quillmane (and the cloak drop specifically) being rare was some kind of money making scheme. You might as well just call the entire game a money making scheme if you're gonna be that cynical.

It's rare because a regeantless levitation cloak that every class can click whenever they want is a hugely powerful item to have. And yes it's for the mage epic, and epics are supposed to be *hard to get*. Not easy to get. Or they wouldn't be "epic" quests in the first place. Many epic quests have highly contested bottleneck items that's kind of the point.

My point is a lot of the items were meant to keep people on, paying that fee. They were charging a monthly fee for a reason and I am sure the marketing department and higher ups at SOE were asking them how they planned on keeping people subbing. If they did not charge a monthly fee, the alternative is microtransactions (which is now the way to keep people paying) Exp pots, mana pots, heal pots etc could have cost $4.99/bundle.

And getting the lev cloak is not "hard". it was never intended to be hard but something of an anomaly. It's not like you need to kill some raid mob or a hard mob to get it. It is "time consuming" which to my point, keeps the person paying that fee. And I do not think they thought levitate was a big of a deal that it really is, especially in pvp. Many items in this game are not hard to get, they are time consumers.

My other issue is that the cloak is not "hard" to get.

[Ooloo]

My point is a lot of the items were meant to keep people on, paying that fee. They were charging a monthly fee for a reason and I am sure the marketing department and higher ups at SOE were asking them how they planned on keeping people subbing. If they did not charge a monthly fee, the alternative is microtransactions (which is now the way to keep people paying) Exp pots, mana pots, heal pots etc could have cost $4.99/bundle.

And getting the lev cloak is not "hard". it was never intended to be hard but something of an anomaly. It's not like you need to kill some raid mob or a hard mob to get it. It is "time consuming" which to my point, keeps the person paying that fee. And I do not think they thought levitate was a big of a deal that it really is, especially in pvp. Many items in this game are not hard to get, they are time consumers.

My other issue is that the cloak is not "hard" to get.

Haha uh well, you might call it "hard" if an item takes a long time to get. You're just mincing words here. If it's a huge pain in the ass to get an item, for any reason, then it's hard to get. By definition.

Also if the devs didn't realize the value of a levitate clicky at the time, why would they make quillmane so rare as to keep people playing and paying?

The only reason there was a monthly subscription fee is because it costs money to keep the servers running, especially on 1999 technology and infrastructure. And sure they are trying to make money. Videogames are a business, but that doesn't mean that every creative decision must be related to making more money.

[Lune]

My point is a lot of the items were meant to keep people on, paying that fee. They were charging a monthly fee for a reason and I am sure the marketing department and higher ups at SOE were asking them how they planned on keeping people subbing. If they did not charge a monthly fee, the alternative is microtransactions (which is now the way to keep people paying) Exp pots, mana pots, heal pots etc could have cost $4.99/bundle.

And getting the lev cloak is not "hard". it was never intended to be hard but something of an anomaly. It's not like you need to kill some raid mob or a hard mob to get it. It is "time consuming" which to my point, keeps the person paying that fee. And I do not think they thought levitate was a big of a deal that it really is, especially in pvp. Many items in this game are not hard to get, they are time consumers.

My other issue is that the cloak is not "hard" to get.

That is NOT how classic EQ was designed and how dare you say that, heretic. Smedley didn't have enough power yet to design it like that. Besides, the massive amount of time and xp it took to get to 50 and then 60 served that purpose.

[Trexller]

i want to believe that in like 1997 a creative decision had weight over a profit strategy

but watching all the major game devs in the 2000s+ every studio has followed this model, before even the first line of code is written:

"We need to make Money!"

"how?"

"We'll produce video games, and we want to make X million off each game"

*Devs hit Y million in development costs*

"OK we're almost out of money so we're launching the game after 6 hours of alpha testing, and all the unfinished content and major bug fixes will be released as $$ DLC"

"Wheres my $60 dollars today, and $25 in 4 months bitches?"

[Ooloo]

It's a stupid way to think about it. Every single videogame that has ever been made that you've ever heard of was made, ostensibly, to make money. Like obviously.

That doesn't mean that when they drew the froglok skin or decided on the names of the various gods or whatever they were calculating exactly which names and which graphics would make the most money. Likewise, there's no logical reason to automatically assume that making a highly desireable item rare was only done to make money. Everquest was like the 3rd mmo ever made.

If you want to talk about mmo's being optimized to make money, *modern* mmo's definitely fit that bill. But in 1999 it was still very much a punk rock hodgepodge of wide-eyed developers and people like smedley funding their passion project, and they just kind of fell ass-backward into success. And quillmane was in from day 1, so I really doubt it was some money making scheme.

All of this is kind of moot anyway because p99 is free for us to play, thank god. All credit to the p99 staff for that.

[Duik]

Sure, Quill was rare, but lvl appropriate adventurers in SK most likely aided epic mages hunting the cloak.
Eg killing placeholders unbeknowingly (I certainly was one of those adventurers) and not specifically looking for the pointy headed horsie.
I recently saw the interview with the eq dev regarding Quill. Didnt really take particular notice though, but Idid recall him saying many unintended things stayed in game because time restraints. Also unfinished quests by him and others littered the db.

Spent alot of time in SK, my game partner even snagged the cloak for her druid. Didnt even know of the epic mage thing. Our small guild had a lvl52 mage (about our highest lvl then) who dropped his fucking bundle when he heard we "wasted" it. We didnt even know about mq i dont think.
So, maybe quillmane seems rarer now cuz the is no incidental adventurers hunting elephants, lion etc along with p99 devs maybe not knowing the real mechanic as well.

[BigPlays]

Haha uh well, you might call it "hard" if an item takes a long time to get. You're just mincing words here. If it's a huge pain in the ass to get an item, for any reason, then it's hard to get. By definition.

Also if the devs didn't realize the value of a levitate clicky at the time, why would they make quillmane so rare as to keep people playing and paying?

The only reason there was a monthly subscription fee is because it costs money to keep the servers running, especially on 1999 technology and infrastructure. And sure they are trying to make money. Videogames are a business, but that doesn't mean that every creative decision must be related to making more money.

So if you are a bard and want to get say the red dragon scale. That will be HARD to get. You need a raid force, you need to "hope" it drops. You then need to actually kill the mob.

If you are a mage and need the cloak, you just kill lv 5-10 mobs. It is just time consuming. It's not hard to kill the PH's. It's not a challenge. If I kill naggy and get the scale after getting a raid force together, I feel a sense of accomplishment. We managed to get 30 people and slay a dragon. If I kill a bunch of lv 5 mobs and get Quill to spawn and get the cloak, I feel like I just wasted a bunch of time killing PH's.

[BigPlays]

It's a stupid way to think about it. Every single videogame that has ever been made that you've ever heard of was made, ostensibly, to make money. Like obviously.

That doesn't mean that when they drew the froglok skin or decided on the names of the various gods or whatever they were calculating exactly which names and which graphics would make the most money. Likewise, there's no logical reason to automatically assume that making a highly desireable item rare was only done to make money. Everquest was like the 3rd mmo ever made.

If you want to talk about mmo's being optimized to make money, *modern* mmo's definitely fit that bill. But in 1999 it was still very much a punk rock hodgepodge of wide-eyed developers and people like smedley funding their passion project, and they just kind of fell ass-backward into success. And quillmane was in from day 1, so I really doubt it was some money making scheme.

All of this is kind of moot anyway because p99 is free for us to play, thank god. All credit to the p99 staff for that.

I am sure some of that monthly charge went into maintenance, but they still needed to keep people hooked. The monthly charge evolved into microtransactions. Let's say Microtransactions were a thing back then (let's say starcraft had custom skins you could buy then and some other games had some sort of cosmetics you could buy) EQ would have been using that to charge you for EXP pots, mana regen pots, health regen pots etc.

They needed to make money and to do that they needed people to keep playing. If spawn timers on naggy were a day and not a week, and dropped every item on the table, people would gear up quicker and the carrot disappears. So they make shit super rare in order to get people to chase after the carrot. Now it might not have been 100% their intent, but I am sure part of it was to keep subs.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Liz Woolley? You old battle-axe, how the hell are ya?!

[beev]

You sit three people at the spawn points. Trackers and killers work the spawns. If anyone steals that kind of spawn, if the players can't get that player's reputation jacked, I feel sorry for ya'll.

QM doesn't have 3 spawn points anymore. That was done away with a few years ago. It and it's PH's can spawn anywhere south of PAW and north of Aviak Village. Far west to Far east (not past hermit hut)

[BigPlays]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRLeVEuuLXM

Go to the 22:00 mark. According to this guy we are all playing the game wrong. They admit to seeing people camping QM for hours/days but never adjusted it because we play wrong. How dumb is that?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

QM doesn't have 3 spawn points anymore. That was done away with a few years ago. It and it's PH's can spawn anywhere south of PAW and north of Aviak Village. Far west to Far east (not past hermit hut)

Who the fuck's idea was this?

[Croco]

Who the fuck's idea was this?

The devs of course. They can make any change they want, even non-classic, with no justification or evidence at all. We can all get fucked if we don't like it. Don't get twisted though if you want to get something changed you better have a mountain of classic evidence, signed in triplicate, with an affidavit from an original eq dev, a recent std screening, and a blood sample. Then they might look at it and acknowledge you. Maybe.

[Ooloo]

There are two types of changes, classic by the book and classic in spirit. Classic by the book changes require a mountain of evidence. Classic in spirit changes (like nerfing swarm limit or changing quillmane) are meant to curtail some emergent aspect of gameplay that never existed in classic, even though it theoretically could have. Making quillmane somewhat hard to get is a classic in spirit change, which I support because pumping out lev cloaks all day like it was before is lame as shit. You might as well just have every character start with one if it's gonna be that easy. No swag factor at all, it's just mehh cool I have a lev cloak now like every single other player on the server.

[Lune]

Who the fuck's idea was this?

Some dude probably got his Quillmane pop stolen and just wanted to burn it all down

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Sounds like they took a fair pita spawn and created a plausible-deniability spawn anger factory.

In all fairness this is a pretty deep immersion item to lust after. There's one solution.
https://i.imgur.com/CrHgjws.jpg

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Some dude probably got his Quillmane pop stolen and just wanted to burn it all down

Lune yer avatar is on r/place. lower right quadrant. Good work.

[Croco]

There are two types of changes, classic by the book and classic in spirit. Classic by the book changes require a mountain of evidence. Classic in spirit changes (like nerfing swarm limit or changing quillmane) are meant to curtail some emergent aspect of gameplay that never existed in classic, even though it theoretically could have. Making quillmane somewhat hard to get is a classic in spirit change, which I support because pumping out lev cloaks all day like it was before is lame as shit. You might as well just have every character start with one if it's gonna be that easy. No swag factor at all, it's just mehh cool I have a lev cloak now like every single other player on the server.

Not everyone had the same experiences playing in classic. So to make a bunch of changes to try and force a "spirit of classic" which when it comes down to it is really only 1 or 2 peoples idea of what classic was is incredibly stupid. You are never going to be able to give people a taste of what classic really was due to a ton of factors. Not the least of which are internet speeds and availability of information.

To put it simply you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, and to spend more than a decade forcing players into your specific idea of what it was like to play back in the day is asinine. The other option, the better option, is to make a 1 to 1 sandbox of exactly what classic was and let emergent gameplay do it's thing. The devs of this project have chosen to do the former and in doing so have created a ton of extra work for themselves and made all the servers much worse for their choice.

[Endorra]

After I buy my peggy cloak loot rights, I'm all for nerfing Quillmane even more. Me having an easy peggy cloak and you not having one is classic.

[BigPlays]

I’m guessing some guild was just hogging the spawn and someone got mad and demanded the change

[Snaggles]

I didnt read the first few pages but mages can buy MQ's for the cloak, or bribe a farmer.

If you have an earth staff it's not a problem. It's barely a weekend setback.

[Trexller]

I’m guessing some guild was just hogging the spawn and someone got mad and demanded the change

yep, that's what happened. of course the devs/mods (who play in that guild) waited until they had farmed like 200

[Solist]

All you losers didn’t just /tar # for dozens of cloaks on every tunnel mule and reserved name alt in the early days of p99?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I’m guessing some guild was just hogging the spawn and someone got mad and demanded the change

WTF is wrong with brainsy here? 24 hours a day??

Where did you learn your craft?

Log in when the enemy isn't -- Battleship
https://i.imgur.com/OWhhDYz.jpg

[BigPlays]

WTF is wrong with brainsy here? 24 hours a day??

Where did you learn your craft?

Log in when the enemy isn't -- Battleship
https://i.imgur.com/OWhhDYz.jpg

And the same dudes are still farming it or another guild in another timezone

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Find out the religion of your opponent. Find out their most holy and sacred day. Log in then.

Infiltrate guild, find out when players take vacations. Log in then.

Raid guilds raid. Log in after a quake.

All I'm seeing here is a bunch of complaints, and not one single useable stick of goddam MOTO.

[greenspectre]

New method is actually not that hard once you isolate QM's placeholder. That's the hard part that involves gathering a train and killing it as fast as possible and watching track 78 seconds later. But once you identify the mob that pops a new PH every 78 seconds you can churn through Quillmanes pretty quick till you get a cloak.

And I hear they even upped the % for the cloak not too long ago, too.

I wasn't a fan of them changing the method vs. the old one, for practicality's sake, but I saw the dev interview and it DOES seem like the new method is more classic.

Honestly, having a 39+ ranger is pretty fun, and becomes lucrative if you choose to go that route. Peggy cloaks, Jboots, heck I even made a quick 1k farming two copies of Visions of Sebilite recently. Plus if you slap an Ikky BP or Fungi and a woodsman's staff one one, you level to that range pretty damn easily.

[BigPlays]

New method is actually not that hard once you isolate QM's placeholder. That's the hard part that involves gathering a train and killing it as fast as possible and watching track 78 seconds later. But once you identify the mob that pops a new PH every 78 seconds you can churn through Quillmanes pretty quick till you get a cloak.

And I hear they even upped the % for the cloak not too long ago, too.

I wasn't a fan of them changing the method vs. the old one, for practicality's sake, but I saw the dev interview and it DOES seem like the new method is more classic.

Honestly, having a 39+ ranger is pretty fun, and becomes lucrative if you choose to go that route. Peggy cloaks, Jboots, heck I even made a quick 1k farming two copies of Visions of Sebilite recently. Plus if you slap an Ikky BP or Fungi and a woodsman's staff one one, you level to that range pretty damn easily.

My point with QM is that it should have been changed during the next reset, not smack in the middle of the server life cycle. Again it seems to me this entire scenario came from someone who was trying to get a cloak but couldn’t because a guild or group were holding that camp. There was someone taking orders for cloaks and charging like 4k pp. so it was impossible to get a cloak since it was pretty much perma camped. So they bitched to the devs about how the current system was not classic and dug up some posts and videos on how they thought it should spawn.

Even the dev who came up with the spawn was not 100% on how it was spawned. He just stayed it was thrown into the spawn cycle of a bunch of low level mobs and spawned off a percentage of that group. No mention on spawn timers etc.

[Baldwooky]

Its still not instant, so who cares about the spawn. The whole item is still broken from its original 1999 form.

Yes, I had one then.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

You shouldn't have to do a clear to time the spawn. That means, that zone is useless now for normal players. The old system was minimally disruptive to the zone. And, as I said, if a server's guilds can't lay down some ground rules on QM behavior, then the problem is not the spawn.

[greenspectre]

You shouldn't have to do a clear to time the spawn. That means, that zone is useless now for normal players. The old system was minimally disruptive to the zone. And, as I said, if a server's guilds can't lay down some ground rules on QM behavior, then the problem is not the spawn.

"Disruptive to the zone" is a bit of a stretch. Most of the mobs on the PH cycle are "a lion/lioness" and various low level wolves, and nobody goes to SK to kill level 5-15 mobs as the zone is really more geared towards 25+. That said, Shelties, Cyclopes, Harriers, and rarely Treants are on the cycle but they are so roamy and sporadic that there are better places to find those mobs, such as KFC and the dedicated treant area.

And I understand the frustrations above with them changing the QM cycle in the middle of the server's operation, but that's not unlike many of the changes made as information surfaces that something is not classic. Phase Spiders were made to summon, which made PSC's go from 1k to like 2500 because bards can't easily swarm them now. Things like that. It's how the server has always operated.

I've been in Kingdom since Kunark, so well before the QM change, and while I didn't take an interest in cloaks until AFTER the change, I can say that based on guildchat we didn't do Peggy Cloak farming very often. When we did it wasn't to sell, either.

[BigPlays]

"Disruptive to the zone" is a bit of a stretch. Most of the mobs on the PH cycle are "a lion/lioness" and various low level wolves, and nobody goes to SK to kill level 5-15 mobs as the zone is really more geared towards 25+. That said, Shelties, Cyclopes, Harriers, and rarely Treants are on the cycle but they are so roamy and sporadic that there are better places to find those mobs, such as KFC and the dedicated treant area.

And I understand the frustrations above with them changing the QM cycle in the middle of the server's operation, but that's not unlike many of the changes made as information surfaces that something is not classic. Phase Spiders were made to summon, which made PSC's go from 1k to like 2500 because bards can't easily swarm them now. Things like that. It's how the server has always operated.

I've been in Kingdom since Kunark, so well before the QM change, and while I didn't take an interest in cloaks until AFTER the change, I can say that based on guildchat we didn't do Peggy Cloak farming very often. When we did it wasn't to sell, either.

According to the wiki you should basically round up every single possible PH, nuke them all down then track the 78 sec timer. If that is not zone disruption I do not know what is. Especially since other names are all in that same group of low level PHs.

The other way was less disruptive but you had multiple guild farming it non stop for guildies, alts or selling loot rights for $4k. So now you have people clearing out the entire zone and selling loot rights for 10-15k and mages sitting at the biggest bottleneck in their epic journey.

[cd288]

According to the wiki you should basically round up every single possible PH, nuke them all down then track the 78 sec timer. If that is not zone disruption I do not know what is. Especially since other names are all in that same group of low level PHs.

The other way was less disruptive but you had multiple guild farming it non stop for guildies, alts or selling loot rights for $4k. So now you have people clearing out the entire zone and selling loot rights for 10-15k and mages sitting at the biggest bottleneck in their epic journey.

You really just totally glazed right over his point that the PHs are almost all various low level wandering trash mobs that literally no one in SK are exping on. You're not like pulling all the Gnolls by Paw and all the aviaks at KFC and mass killing them. It's literally disruptive to nobody, much less the like 3 people who occasionally might exp in areas of SK.

Mass killing PHs disrupts nothing lol what are you talking about

[cd288]

I am sure some of that monthly charge went into maintenance, but they still needed to keep people hooked. The monthly charge evolved into microtransactions. Let's say Microtransactions were a thing back then (let's say starcraft had custom skins you could buy then and some other games had some sort of cosmetics you could buy) EQ would have been using that to charge you for EXP pots, mana regen pots, health regen pots etc.

They needed to make money and to do that they needed people to keep playing. If spawn timers on naggy were a day and not a week, and dropped every item on the table, people would gear up quicker and the carrot disappears. So they make shit super rare in order to get people to chase after the carrot. Now it might not have been 100% their intent, but I am sure part of it was to keep subs.

I already countered all your arguments in your other thread about this topic. None of that was done with monthly subscribers in mind - those types of decisions really didn't start happening until Luclin/late Velious. I don't think you even played EQ back in the day lol.

[greenspectre]

According to the wiki you should basically round up every single possible PH, nuke them all down then track the 78 sec timer. If that is not zone disruption I do not know what is. Especially since other names are all in that same group of low level PHs.

The other way was less disruptive but you had multiple guild farming it non stop for guildies, alts or selling loot rights for $4k. So now you have people clearing out the entire zone and selling loot rights for 10-15k and mages sitting at the biggest bottleneck in their epic journey.

As a Quillmane farmer it DOESN'T benefit you to round up any of the nameds actually. If I see Synger Foxfire or Gnawfang on track I leave them alone, and in fact am GLAD to see them up. They are guaranteed to not pop Quillmane so that's one less mob to worry about.

[BigPlays]

You really just totally glazed right over his point that the PHs are almost all various low level wandering trash mobs that literally no one in SK are exping on. You're not like pulling all the Gnolls by Paw and all the aviaks at KFC and mass killing them. It's literally disruptive to nobody, much less the like 3 people who occasionally might exp in areas of SK.

Mass killing PHs disrupts nothing lol what are you talking about

These are all the possible PH's and percentages according to the wiki:

Cycle Spawn %

an elephant - 9
a lion - 16
a lioness - 12
a mist wolf - 3
a shadow wolf - 6
centaur archer - 2
centaur courser - 1
centaur sheltie - 3
aviak avocet - 2
aviak darter - 1
aviak harrier - 1
aviak rook - 1
an escaped Splitpaw gnoll - 12
a cyclops - 1
Quillmane - 7

At least three of these are killed by players. There is also another post saying that Treant and Centaur Chargers can also be a PH. I see lots of druids killing avocets across the zone. So yes, I would beleive if you followed the strategy to get QM to spawn it would be considered zone disruption.

SECOND STEP - find the PH

My method was to spend up to ten minutes trawling the zone for all of the mobs that might be the PH. From other threads and my brief experience, I believe they include:

an escaped splitpaw gnoll
a treant
a mist wolf
a shadow wolf
a lion
a lioness
an elephant
an aviak egret
an aviak avocet
a centaur sheltie
a centaur charger
a cyclops
an aviak harrier

Gather them in your wake, like a toddler's ride-on-train, until you have a good 15-20 mobs. I actually ignored treants in my first big pull, hoping to avoid faction hits.

If gathering up 20 of these mobs is not zone disruption I don't know what is

[cd288]

These are all the possible PH's and percentages according to the wiki:

Cycle Spawn %

an elephant - 9
a lion - 16
a lioness - 12
a mist wolf - 3
a shadow wolf - 6
centaur archer - 2
centaur courser - 1
centaur sheltie - 3
aviak avocet - 2
aviak darter - 1
aviak harrier - 1
aviak rook - 1
an escaped Splitpaw gnoll - 12
a cyclops - 1
Quillmane - 7

At least three of these are killed by players. There is also another post saying that Treant and Centaur Chargers can also be a PH. I see lots of druids killing avocets across the zone. So yes, I would beleive if you followed the strategy to get QM to spawn it would be considered zone disruption.

SECOND STEP - find the PH

My method was to spend up to ten minutes trawling the zone for all of the mobs that might be the PH. From other threads and my brief experience, I believe they include:

an escaped splitpaw gnoll
a treant
a mist wolf
a shadow wolf
a lion
a lioness
an elephant
an aviak egret
an aviak avocet
a centaur sheltie
a centaur charger
a cyclops
an aviak harrier

Gather them in your wake, like a toddler's ride-on-train, until you have a good 15-20 mobs. I actually ignored treants in my first big pull, hoping to avoid faction hits.

If gathering up 20 of these mobs is not zone disruption I don't know what is

Lmao bro no one is wandering around SK exping off these random mobs. In what alternate universe do you live in where low level players are running around the middle of SK trying to kill a random aviak egret or lioness? There's like 3 people EXPing in SK on average these days lol, and they're spread between static spawns at KFC, Treants, and Paw spires.

The Treant is a random spawn within the PHs, so it's not like people are running around the zone hoping that a random Treant will spawn and they can kill it for EXP. If you're doing Treants you're doing the two static spawns.

There is maybe one wandering Aviak I believe that comes close to KFC that is a PH. So someone exping at KFC MIGHT occasionally kill that if they happen to see it and it's a type of Aviak that gives them EXP.

Your argument that mass killing wandering low level trash mobs in a large open zone where no one exps being zone disruption is one of the dumbest I've seen on these forums in a long time.

[cd288]

TSo yes, I would beleive if you followed the strategy to get QM to spawn it would be considered zone disruption.

Why doesn't the staff define it as such then?

[mycoolrausch]

If the original devs had designed Quillmane spawn an expansion or two later it'd probably work more like velious spawns with an expanding window and a chance to skip and a random spawn location, except condensed to hours instead of days like lodi/kozz. No PH.

i think the intent was always just for the mob to rarely but randomly be up for people wandering the zone looking for him, not something you camp.

this experience can never be replicated on p99 because the server is too top heavy with infinite alts all chasing the same item at the same time.

and it would never happen with the original spawn mechanic because the convoluted ph system was clearly made with the expectation that random newbies would be routinely killing random trash in SK, which never happens. it didnt even happen on live that i remember except maybe early in vanilla (idk, didnt play that far back). the devs grossly misjudged what content would be utilized and how or didnt care if future expansions made it obsolete.

the new p99 quillmane is definitely more classic, but im glad all my alts have cloaks. the new farming method doesnt sound horrible though. gl cloak hunters

[BigPlays]

Lmao bro no one is wandering around SK exping off these random mobs. In what alternate universe do you live in where low level players are running around the middle of SK trying to kill a random aviak egret or lioness? There's like 3 people EXPing in SK on average these days lol, and they're spread between static spawns at KFC, Treants, and Paw spires.

The Treant is a random spawn within the PHs, so it's not like people are running around the zone hoping that a random Treant will spawn and they can kill it for EXP. If you're doing Treants you're doing the two static spawns.

There is maybe one wandering Aviak I believe that comes close to KFC that is a PH. So someone exping at KFC MIGHT occasionally kill that if they happen to see it and it's a type of Aviak that gives them EXP.

Your argument that mass killing wandering low level trash mobs in a large open zone where no one exps being zone disruption is one of the dumbest I've seen on these forums in a long time.

Can you carry on a conversation without being a total dick? Just curious. You have your argument, I have mine. We are never going to convince each other otherwise.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I have come to my conclusion at least.

When your Project has come to this:
https://i.imgur.com/eA0k6SP.jpg



It's time for this:

https://i.imgur.com/CrHgjws.jpg

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Just to specify, once any character on an account hits 60, any in-game time on that account counts as in-game time for the lvl 60. So, you can't beat the system, in other words. Unless you can create multiple accounts. But surely that is frowned upon and would be self-reported by the Logan's Run P99 community.

I am confident I speak for all of us, it would.

[cd288]

Can you carry on a conversation without being a total dick? Just curious. You have your argument, I have mine. We are never going to convince each other otherwise.

Well it's RNF so we're kinda allowed to talk shit to each other in this forum.

But anyway, if you want to carry on an argument it would probably be good to show us proof that there are commonly times on Blue and Green where there are a bunch of people like level 7-14/15 running around in the middle of nowhere in SK killing wandering low level trash mobs for EXP. If that's happening all the time then maybe there is a zone disruption argument.

So, go take some /whos at various hours of the day in SK on several different days and you might also want to get a fraps video showing all those low levels running around all over SK killing lone wandering trash instead of doing it in much better/safer/more efficient exp zones.

Then come back with that evidence and you can make your zone disruption argument.

[Toxigen]

If a bear shits in the woods...

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Well it's RNF so we're kinda allowed to talk shit to each other in this forum.

But anyway, if you want to carry on an argument it would probably be good to show us proof that there are commonly times on Blue and Green where there are a bunch of people like level 7-14/15 running around in the middle of nowhere in SK killing wandering low level trash mobs for EXP. If that's happening all the time then maybe there is a zone disruption argument.

So, go take some /whos at various hours of the day in SK on several different days and you might also want to get a fraps video showing all those low levels running around all over SK killing lone wandering trash instead of doing it in much better/safer/more efficient exp zones.

Then come back with that evidence and you can make your zone disruption argument.

All fair points.

But how do you know the actual server populations, which rise in fall in America, and how people opt to play, isn't part of the same bad bargain we've all made, our entire fucking lives? And maybe we're sick of it?

How many of us, right now, want to fucking kill Quillmane?

A lot I bet.

The difference is some of us are going to escape. Some of us are just going to leave.

But I know I'll be here. My dream is that I'll log on, and you all won't be.

That's what I look forward to, really. For all of you to wake up and realize, you can escape. You don't have to be me. You don't have to be here. Killing fucking Quillmane.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

https://i.imgur.com/pWvH8M2.jpg

[BigPlays]

My final point on QM is that the spawn should have been left as is till a server reset happened. There was no reason to change it in the middle of a server lifecycle.

[aussenseiter]

Can you carry on a conversation without being a total dick? Just curious. You have your argument, I have mine. We are never going to convince each other otherwise.

His argument is good and your argument is bad.

Zoidberg booing gif omitted.

Hope this helps.

[BigPlays]

His argument is good and your argument is bad.

Zoidberg booing gif omitted.

Hope this helps.

You should watch the dev interview first. The devs never wanted the game to work like this. All the rare spawn crap and long timers were from brad and the higher ups. People just poopsocked this game and got addicted.

[greenspectre]

Lmao bro no one is wandering around SK exping off these random mobs. In what alternate universe do you live in where low level players are running around the middle of SK trying to kill a random aviak egret or lioness? There's like 3 people EXPing in SK on average these days lol, and they're spread between static spawns at KFC, Treants, and Paw spires.

The Treant is a random spawn within the PHs, so it's not like people are running around the zone hoping that a random Treant will spawn and they can kill it for EXP. If you're doing Treants you're doing the two static spawns.

There is maybe one wandering Aviak I believe that comes close to KFC that is a PH. So someone exping at KFC MIGHT occasionally kill that if they happen to see it and it's a type of Aviak that gives them EXP.

Your argument that mass killing wandering low level trash mobs in a large open zone where no one exps being zone disruption is one of the dumbest I've seen on these forums in a long time.

Actually I have the answer to who would actually be exp'ing off these mobs. Level 35-40 Quillmane hunters! My ranger started trying the cycle at 35 as she was nearly max track, and I shit you not I made levels off these things. So yeah, stop it QM farmers, you're disrupting my QM farm exp!

[greenspectre]

My final point on QM is that the spawn should have been left as is till a server reset happened. There was no reason to change it in the middle of a server lifecycle.

P99 Blue AND Green's lifecycle run contrary to this point, too. The only time P99 devs waited until a new server came out to change mechanics was Green launch with the dynamic lighting and lack of pet window and other mechanics. This was specifically to hype Green. Several other in-game mechanics were changed "as discovered" during both blue and green's lifecycles. Examples being Seafury loot, QM cloaks, Phase Spiders summoning.

The whole bug report forum exists in a large part to bring these changes to light for the devs, and the devs will, if convinced, post "Fixed pending next update". So yeah, QM change actually SHOULD have been done when it was done, as by then the devs had enough information to make the spawn more classic-accurate, and there's no reason to wait years to implement it only when Purple Server comes out.

[cd288]

My final point on QM is that the spawn should have been left as is till a server reset happened. There was no reason to change it in the middle of a server lifecycle.

As usual, this guy just makes "points" and provides no actual evidence for why something should be the way he wants. You know who else does that? People who whine.

This latest point is just nonsensical and there's no reason to wait to try to make the mechanics more classic-esque.

Let's just all call this what it is. The new method of spawning and/or farming Quillmane is inconvenient/more difficult for this guy for whatever reason. So he comes here to whine about it and try to make up some argument that it's zone disruption because level 10 chars are all over the place in SK trying to kill low level wandering trash PHs for exp (Lol). Just the typical whiney P99 complaint where the person tries to mask it as something else.

[BigPlays]

As usual, this guy just makes "points" and provides no actual evidence for why something should be the way he wants. You know who else does that? People who whine.

This latest point is just nonsensical and there's no reason to wait to try to make the mechanics more classic-esque.

Let's just all call this what it is. The new method of spawning and/or farming Quillmane is inconvenient/more difficult for this guy for whatever reason. So he comes here to whine about it and try to make up some argument that it's zone disruption because level 10 chars are all over the place in SK trying to kill low level wandering trash PHs for exp (Lol). Just the typical whiney P99 complaint where the person tries to mask it as something else.

Oh look it's another liberal who says his point is the only one that matters and nobody will change his mind. Got it.

[cd288]

Oh look it's another liberal who says his point is the only one that matters and nobody will change his mind. Got it.

So because I called you out about your agenda in complaining about the Quillmane changes and trying to mask it behind concern about zone disruption for lowbies, I'm now a liberal? Lol what? How unhinged are you?

Also, as an FYI I believe politics is to be limited to the Off Topic forum these days. Might want to scale the political tinged insults back bubs.

[Croco]

P99 Blue AND Green's lifecycle run contrary to this point, too. The only time P99 devs waited until a new server came out to change mechanics was Green launch with the dynamic lighting and lack of pet window and other mechanics. This was specifically to hype Green. Several other in-game mechanics were changed "as discovered" during both blue and green's lifecycles. Examples being Seafury loot, QM cloaks, Phase Spiders summoning.

The whole bug report forum exists in a large part to bring these changes to light for the devs, and the devs will, if convinced, post "Fixed pending next update". So yeah, QM change actually SHOULD have been done when it was done, as by then the devs had enough information to make the spawn more classic-accurate, and there's no reason to wait years to implement it only when Purple Server comes out.

Except the devs used information from 2009 and 2016 as justification to change the QM spawn mechanics. Sounds pretty NOT CLASSIC to me. But then again the devs can do whatever the fuck they want and we have to kick rocks if we don't agree.

[cd288]

Except the devs used information from 2009 and 2016 as justification to change the QM spawn mechanics. Sounds pretty NOT CLASSIC to me. But then again the devs can do whatever the fuck they want and we have to kick rocks if we don't agree.

I can't recall the full discussion at the time but wasn't one of the things they said was they weren't sure the original mechanics were classic either, and they wanted to bring back some of that classic "feel" where people weren't entirely sure how the mechanic worked? Maybe the latter is gone now if everyone has figured it out, but that's inevitable

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

As usual, this guy just makes "points" and provides no actual evidence for why something should be the way he wants. You know who else does that? People who whine.

This latest point is just nonsensical and there's no reason to wait to try to make the mechanics more classic-esque.

Let's just all call this what it is. The new method of spawning and/or farming Quillmane is inconvenient/more difficult for this guy for whatever reason. So he comes here to whine about it and try to make up some argument that it's zone disruption because level 10 chars are all over the place in SK trying to kill low level wandering trash PHs for exp (Lol). Just the typical whiney P99 complaint where the person tries to mask it as something else.

In fairness, I am pretty sure I planted the "this disrupts the zone!" hair on fire seed.

Bigplays had the misfortune of thinking it was the clue for a good argument.

Never listen to post #50, is the lesson. You end up making a post #52.
https://i.imgur.com/TuHHWrB.jpg

[Lune]

I'd have probably kept playing green if all the TLPers had fucked off

[cd288]

In fairness, I am pretty sure I planted the "this disrupts the zone!" hair on fire seed.

Bigplays had the misfortune of thinking it was the clue for a good argument.

Never listen to post #50, is the lesson. You end up making a post #52.
https://i.imgur.com/TuHHWrB.jpg

Lol fair point. Just gave him something to cling onto to justify why he wants it made more convenient for him

[Croco]

I can't recall the full discussion at the time but wasn't one of the things they said was they weren't sure the original mechanics were classic either, and they wanted to bring back some of that classic "feel" where people weren't entirely sure how the mechanic worked? Maybe the latter is gone now if everyone has figured it out, but that's inevitable

And that's where the project goes off the rails. When you try to enforce a single person's memory of how classic felt. If there was no definitive information how exactly the spawn worked the correct play was to leave it as it had been for 10+ years.

[greenspectre]

And that's where the project goes off the rails. When you try to enforce a single person's memory of how classic felt. If there was no definitive information how exactly the spawn worked the correct play was to leave it as it had been for 10+ years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRLeVEuuLXM&t=1396s

Check this video at 18:35 and 20:10 especially. It's literally an interview with the guy who DESIGNED the Quillmane spawn. He says he saw a video where someone said it was "A lioness and an elephant calf" but said that wasn't the actual spawn as it was designed and it was more "Probably just one of the lower level spawns...the variety spawns...and just a percentage off of that...that had all of the lower level spawns in it"

So if anything based on that wording, cyclopes/treants/harriers/avocets shouldn't be included, but I'd say the p99 devs did the best they could when trying to change the mechanics to match what the actual developer best remembers them being. This is as close to definitive information as is possible 20 years later.

[cd288]

And that's where the project goes off the rails. When you try to enforce a single person's memory of how classic felt. If there was no definitive information how exactly the spawn worked the correct play was to leave it as it had been for 10+ years.

That's a broader debate that encompasses way more than just QM, although I don't disagree with you entirely. but on QM specifically, as GS just showed they seem to have come as close as they could to figuring it out.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

And that's where the project goes off the rails. When you try to enforce a single person's memory of how classic felt. If there was no definitive information how exactly the spawn worked the correct play was to leave it as it had been for 10+ years.

Unless they think the goal of the project is to create a classic tlp. So that means only x amounts of months for original, then kunark and the epics, then velious. Have to make sure folks can get their epics in decent numbers by velious?

That is only an issue, and the Quillmane spawn is only an issue, if you are thinking in terms of expansion progression.

And that is why. There. Is. Only. One. Solution.

Not even gonna post it.

[Ennewi]

Honestly, for blue server, it would be neat if eventually changes like the one to QM came and went, making spawns in the world slightly/significantly different here and there. It happens anyway, but would be cool if it was a more concerted effort, similar to how it is with Lodi and Badain currently, although those could have an even greater range imo.

After one patch Vessel Drozlin is spawning elsewhere in the East Cab sewers. After another, Verina Tomb spawns in one of the private mansions. Different guards in Freeport see invis.

Gore and Sev spawn at new locs. Step outside of KC right after a quake, only to be confronted by angry white dragon blocking the way. Same difference for Sev, only outside of CoM. A classic memorable oh shit experience, even if it isn't true to the classic trilogy to a T. With unexpected changes like those, even longtime BiS players couldn't get too comfortable moving from zone to zone.

[cd288]

Yeah that would be cool, especially for raid mobs to spawn different locations periodically so that you'd never know where you had to camp at for an FTE attempt.

[Lammy]

The current changes and mechanics of Quillmane are very close to the original classic era Quillmane. Sorry you can't handle it. But the reward is an item you will use your entire lifespan of EQ.

[Lammy]

Except the devs used information from 2009 and 2016 as justification to change the QM spawn mechanics. Sounds pretty NOT CLASSIC to me. But then again the devs can do whatever the fuck they want and we have to kick rocks if we don't agree.

Please refer to this page for documented history on Quillmane cycle. It is classic and more substantial proof than your hurt feelings.

[Lammy]

The real Quillmane Cycle

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306031

[Croco]

The real Quillmane Cycle

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306031

Awesome. I'm glad you were able to remember exactly how it was in 1999 after nearly 19 years. I'm guessing you got inside info from a dev on the exact nature of the spawn? Fantastic memory. Kudos!

[Croco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRLeVEuuLXM&t=1396s

Check this video at 18:35 and 20:10 especially. It's literally an interview with the guy who DESIGNED the Quillmane spawn. He says he saw a video where someone said it was "A lioness and an elephant calf" but said that wasn't the actual spawn as it was designed and it was more "Probably just one of the lower level spawns...the variety spawns...and just a percentage off of that...that had all of the lower level spawns in it"

So if anything based on that wording, cyclopes/treants/harriers/avocets shouldn't be included, but I'd say the p99 devs did the best they could when trying to change the mechanics to match what the actual developer best remembers them being. This is as close to definitive information as is possible 20 years later.

I've watched the interview. I referenced it early in the thread. "Probably" doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Not saying he doesn't remember since he's the one that actually coded the damn thing but there's nothing to say that he isn't misremembering or thinking of an entirely different named spawn he coded. I'm sure he did a LOT of work on the game.

[Croco]

The real Quillmane Cycle

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306031

LOL everything in both links you posted are out of era. Good try though.

[cd288]

I've watched the interview. I referenced it early in the thread. "Probably" doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Not saying he doesn't remember since he's the one that actually coded the damn thing but there's nothing to say that he isn't misremembering or thinking of an entirely different named spawn he coded. I'm sure he did a LOT of work on the game.

No offense but this is kind of a BS response. If that's the standard then we might as well ignore every single thing any prior dev or anyone else involved in the game has ever said.

"Well yeah, I know the prior dev said that, but like he MIGHT be misremembering it you never know. So it shouldn't really be considered as evidence."

Come on man

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Some people have Iron memories. Magnetic even. Some people have fine netting that only catches the krill of life. Other people have cat brains.

Just know your limits. Next time you out rememberin' and shit, and the whole house is rockin' memories, just stop, be chill, and ask yourself, what do I want to become?
https://i.imgur.com/j3O7XFg.jpg

[Croco]

No offense but this is kind of a BS response. If that's the standard then we might as well ignore every single thing any prior dev or anyone else involved in the game has ever said.

"Well yeah, I know the prior dev said that, but like he MIGHT be misremembering it you never know. So it shouldn't really be considered as evidence."

Come on man

Honestly it's not a bs response. Dude is asking him about a random rare mob that he set up in the game over 20 years ago and the guy isn't that sure about it. The answer he gives is pretty clear he doesn't remember exactly.

[greenspectre]

Honestly it's not a bs response. Dude is asking him about a random rare mob that he set up in the game over 20 years ago and the guy isn't that sure about it. The answer he gives is pretty clear he doesn't remember exactly.

And while he doesn't remember exactly, it's the closest evidence we have. Nothing we have documented even compares, and he did say with certainty that killing lionesses and elephant calves wasn't it. So as a p99 dev I'd say that input is as good as gold.

The fact of the matter is there isn't definitive evidence from player posts circa 1999-2001 that had Quillmane completely nailed down, because Allakhazam and such were in their infancy and the EQ hivemind barely existed. So if the players didn't know, I'd definitely go with what the dev says here.

[aussenseiter]

Some people have Iron memories. Magnetic even. Some people have fine netting that only catches the krill of life. Other people have cat brains.

Just know your limits. Next time you out rememberin' and shit, and the whole house is rockin' memories, just stop, be chill, and ask yourself, what do I want to become?
https://i.imgur.com/j3O7XFg.jpg

All you have to do is follow the worms 😼

[cd288]

And while he doesn't remember exactly, it's the closest evidence we have. Nothing we have documented even compares, and he did say with certainty that killing lionesses and elephant calves wasn't it. So as a p99 dev I'd say that input is as good as gold.

The fact of the matter is there isn't definitive evidence from player posts circa 1999-2001 that had Quillmane completely nailed down, because Allakhazam and such were in their infancy and the EQ hivemind barely existed. So if the players didn't know, I'd definitely go with what the dev says here.

This articulated the point I was trying to make much better than my earlier comment

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I need to know how much cocaine said dev did during those golden years.

[greenspectre]

I need to know how much cocaine said dev did during those golden years.

He did...."enough" I'd say lol.

I mean truth be told they thought it would just be some fun random thing. I think the real bastard is the guy who designed the Mage Epic and changed the Peggy cloak from this neat optional item to something required for your class-defining ability.

[Ooloo]

Epics are supposed to be hard to get, I don't see an issue with requiring the lev cloak for the mage epic. If anything some of the epics are way too easy (cough cough rogue shaman)

[loramin]

Epics are supposed to be hard to get, I don't see an issue with requiring the lev cloak for the mage epic. If anything some of the epics are way too easy (cough cough rogue shaman)

Well, the Shaman epic isn't that easy if you do it properly. It's still on the easier side of epics overall, but the failure of Verant to think through the ramifications of basing it entirely on faction is what's made it so incredibly easy here.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

If we are going to bitch about epics. Check out www.enchanterepichorror.org Donate if you can.

Not the quest, the item. It sucketh. Some in the community wanted a cc effect. No. Epic gets solved and... a melee buff that, for those who already had a VoG ready to mem, found pretty unfunny. When you are slogging through lvl 59 instead of working the quest you realize, I have not wasted any time. I will always have that.

What should have been the epic only came later, but now too late to be really significant.
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=22651

That's the epic. Check my magelo. Vindication. Fuck yer shissar. A crime. Isn't that right?
https://i.imgur.com/Ml1QaVD.jpg

[greenspectre]

meant to say *casting time*, not casting cost

Tell me you play Magic the Gathering without telling me you play Magic the Gathering

[Lune]

Mage epic in particular is kinda unfairly stacked but that's the glory of classic EQ; like life, shit ain't balanced and that aids to the prestige and badassery of the mage epic. Also one of the more powerful epics, esp during kunark

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I could cast a mana-less VoG, let's be real. The stats of course are nice, that's not the point.

Shaman epic 1.0 at least increased soloability, right? That's not a wash.

[Ooloo]

Well, the Shaman epic isn't that easy if you do it properly. It's still on the easier side of epics overall, but the failure of Verant to think through the ramifications of basing it entirely on faction is what's made it so incredibly easy here.

True. I honestly wonder how many shamans have actually done the whole quest, like that dude you have to kill in the hole. Probably zero have done it on p99.

[loramin]

True. I honestly wonder how many shamans have actually done the whole quest, like that dude you have to kill in the hole. Probably zero have done it on p99.

I did it on live :) But yeah, when I made Loramin 2.0 here I did it the easy way (although still not the easiest way: I didn't know about the rez trick).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

True. I honestly wonder how many shamans have actually done the whole quest, like that dude you have to kill in the hole. Probably zero have done it on p99.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Shaman_Epic_Quest

For Shamwowi I did parts 1-7 and the final part. This includes doing part 4, the test of patience. That was an interesting experience. I skipped 8 and 9, which was the hole portion you are referring to.

[shoestring]

These are all the possible PH's and percentages according to the wiki:

Cycle Spawn %

an elephant - 9
a lion - 16
a lioness - 12
a mist wolf - 3
a shadow wolf - 6
centaur archer - 2
centaur courser - 1
centaur sheltie - 3
aviak avocet - 2
aviak darter - 1
aviak harrier - 1
aviak rook - 1
an escaped Splitpaw gnoll - 12
a cyclops - 1
Quillmane - 7

At least three of these are killed by players. There is also another post saying that Treant and Centaur Chargers can also be a PH. I see lots of druids killing avocets across the zone. So yes, I would beleive if you followed the strategy to get QM to spawn it would be considered zone disruption.

SECOND STEP - find the PH

My method was to spend up to ten minutes trawling the zone for all of the mobs that might be the PH. From other threads and my brief experience, I believe they include:

an escaped splitpaw gnoll
a treant
a mist wolf
a shadow wolf
a lion
a lioness
an elephant
an aviak egret
an aviak avocet
a centaur sheltie
a centaur charger
a cyclops
an aviak harrier

Gather them in your wake, like a toddler's ride-on-train, until you have a good 15-20 mobs. I actually ignored treants in my first big pull, hoping to avoid faction hits.

If gathering up 20 of these mobs is not zone disruption I don't know what is

on the TAKP database source these are the spawn chances:

a lion - 23% chance
Quillmane - 18% chance
a lioness - 14% chance
an escaped Splitpaw gnoll - 13% chance
an elephant - 10% chance
a mist wolf - 8% chance
aviak egret - 3% chance
centaur sheltie 3% chance
a shadow wolf - 3% chance
centaur charger - 2% chance
aviak harrier - 1% chance
centaur foal - 1% chance
a cyclops - 1% chance

The Pegasus Feather Cloak drop rate is 25%

[cd288]

on the TAKP database source these are the spawn chances:

a lion - 23% chance
Quillmane - 18% chance
a lioness - 14% chance
an escaped Splitpaw gnoll - 13% chance
an elephant - 10% chance
a mist wolf - 8% chance
aviak egret - 3% chance
centaur sheltie 3% chance
a shadow wolf - 3% chance
centaur charger - 2% chance
aviak harrier - 1% chance
centaur foal - 1% chance
a cyclops - 1% chance

The Pegasus Feather Cloak drop rate is 25%

How accurate is the TAKP database source? Isn't it out of era? Or I guess probably not for something like this since I can't imagine the Quillmane PH spawn %s changed much post-Velious (or at least not right in Luclin)

[Lune]

True. I honestly wonder how many shamans have actually done the whole quest, like that dude you have to kill in the hole. Probably zero have done it on p99.

I almost did it on P99, was starting to round people up to go into the Hole when someone was like psssst... you know you're an idiot right?

[Ooloo]

How accurate is the TAKP database source? Isn't it out of era? Or I guess probably not for something like this since I can't imagine the Quillmane PH spawn %s changed much post-Velious (or at least not right in Luclin)

There's no way those percentages are era-accurate, or I would have seen quillmane more than once from 1999-2001. 18% chance? Nahh. Why would they rank order them like that? A lion is the most likely, then quillmane, then a bunch of other trash mobs? That makes no sense.

TAKP is planes of power. They definitely might have tweaked the spawn during those two expansions that are post-velious, especially if mages were complaining about their epic

[BigPlays]

Lol fair point. Just gave him something to cling onto to justify why he wants it made more convenient for him

I never said anything anything about making it more convenient for me. What I said was it is something that should not have been changed mid server life cycle based off of one person who found some data that was not even from 1999.

I have zero problems making anything as classic as it could be. In fact, if we are to go that route, we should be all playing on the original UI up until it was changed. We should also keep all the experience penalties in tact for Hybrids as well. How about not being able to adjust gamma or anything else when you hit alt+o? Do you really want to go down that rabbit hole?

[BigPlays]

And just to add to my post, I wanted the interview with the dev who created the spawn. He says lioness and elephant caves were not it but then goes to say it was part of the lower level spawn cycle. If a lioness is not low level I do not know what is. And if that is the case and that is the best info we have, then there are a lot of spawns which should be taken off the list. Plus, where did the 78 second rule come from and why is that one QM?

If he cannot remember exactly, and there is really no other proof of anything from classic, then it should just have been left alone instead of some frankenstein project.

[Lune]

Feathered Leggings were certainly a common enough item during live classic trilogy

[unsunghero]

How I feel looking down on inferior classes squabbling over getting a component-less levitate

[Ooloo]

And just to add to my post, I wanted the interview with the dev who created the spawn. He says lioness and elephant caves were not it but then goes to say it was part of the lower level spawn cycle. If a lioness is not low level I do not know what is. And if that is the case and that is the best info we have, then there are a lot of spawns which should be taken off the list. Plus, where did the 78 second rule come from and why is that one QM?

If he cannot remember exactly, and there is really no other proof of anything from classic, then it should just have been left alone instead of some frankenstein project.

Since there's no hard documentation and even the original dev can't say with certainty, the next best thing is to emulate the average memory of most players, which is that quillmane was rare af. There were zero guilds during classic selling lev cloak loot rights or requiring every melee raider to have a lev cloak.

It's not like people didn't understand what a rare spawn was back then. People knew what placeholders and named mobs were. Yet there weren't a billion lev cloaks on every server.

[BigPlays]

Since there's no hard documentation and even the original dev can't say with certainty, the next best thing is to emulate the average memory of most players, which is that quillmane was rare af. There were zero guilds during classic selling lev cloak loot rights or requiring every melee raider to have a lev cloak.

It's not like people didn't understand what a rare spawn was back then. People knew what placeholders and named mobs were. Yet there weren't a billion lev cloaks on every server.

The problem is that it should never been changed mid server life

[Jimjam]

Why not? All other changes are…

[BigPlays]

Why not? All other changes are…

Yes per the patches. The QM spawn was never officially changed on live. Every single EMU I have played on had QM spawn the exact same way.

[knotme]

So the Quillmane change was supposed to make it how it was "supposed" to be. Melee classes etc. were not supposed to really have the levitation devices and Quillmane was supposed to be a special "unicorn" level event. OK, seems legit. So what has changed since the modification. Well, now you MUST have a tracker to track the PH. And shockingly, LR and melees with cloaks still exists. So the change was done for what purpose? I can't complain if the operator of this game makes adjustments, what can I do about it?, but to say a reason is to adjust the number of melee getting cloaks or making it more special is absolutely "Nigerian Prince" level BS. It's ok. It's still FTE. Watch for me in a zone near you =)

[Ooloo]

Yes, it's harder to farm than it was before. But it's still not that hard and you can crank out cloaks all day because it's triggered.

And what do you mean melee weren't supposed to have it? They're like the main people who need it, the caster classes can all cast lev in some form

[Castle2.0]

Got my cloaks n manastones ages ago. Sorry you're tryna get em on hard mode.

[Jimjam]

Yes per the patches. The QM spawn was never officially changed on live. Every single EMU I have played on had QM spawn the exact same way.

So all the other emus are using a faulty guestimation of classic and this fix was supposed to bring p99 closer to classic?

There have been a bajillion changes (supposedly) towards classic that have happened midtimeline of p99 that didn’t happen on live.

There is a very strong precedent of ‘fixing’ things as we go rather than waiting for a new server. There is almost no precedent of waiting for a new server to make ‘classicwards’ fixes.

[Jimjam]

How do you think the first iteration of quillmane (or any) mechanics came to eqemu originally?

[BigPlays]

How do you think the first iteration of quillmane (or any) mechanics came to eqemu originally?

I have no idea who was the first EMU to use the previous QM spawn. I played on all of Image/Devnoobs servers and this is how it was. It was like this on Red99 as far as I know as well.

Literally ONE person made a post where he found some information from like 2016 or something from the TLP. How are we even to know that person was right? According to the dev who made the spawn he is not 100% sure. He just said it is "probably" part of the spawn cycle of low level mobs.

It should have not been changed based off of one persons information which came from some random guy. Also it should not have been changed mid server cycle. I would be 100% fine with this mechanic showing up on the new "green" or teal server. The devs here will do what they want anyway.

[Jimjam]

Loads of things get fixed between servers. Staff thought this was a fix. If you have evidence of the correct (or closer to correct system) post it in bugs.


I don’t know why you think this is such a huge change that it needs an (unprecedented) wait to be implemented between servers.

Maybe I just think it is not a big deal due to my own experiences and biases. I got cloaks under the old system (which incidentally seemed waaaay easier than my live experiences and I’ve got wuillmanes and cloaked worh the new system. It really isn’t that big a deal. )

[Jimjam]

*Loads of things fet fixed mid server

[cd288]

I have no idea who was the first EMU to use the previous QM spawn. I played on all of Image/Devnoobs servers and this is how it was. It was like this on Red99 as far as I know as well.

Literally ONE person made a post where he found some information from like 2016 or something from the TLP. How are we even to know that person was right? According to the dev who made the spawn he is not 100% sure. He just said it is "probably" part of the spawn cycle of low level mobs.

It should have not been changed based off of one persons information which came from some random guy. Also it should not have been changed mid server cycle. I would be 100% fine with this mechanic showing up on the new "green" or teal server. The devs here will do what they want anyway.

TLDR I am crying about it because I don't like how it's hard for me to personally get a Peggi Cloak

[BigPlays]

TLDR I am crying about it because I don't like how it's hard for me to personally get a Peggi Cloak

TL/DR you never got laid before

[knotme]

"It's tough to argue with a smart person, but it's impossible to argue with an idiot." The fact that the Quillmane change didn't change the # (except for the reduced drop rate %) of cloaks looted, but rather the # classes who could do it (yes I've heard ad nauseum about how anyone can) without even more frustration is just shameful. The posts about the reasoning behind the change is pure nonsense. That's the point. Quillmane is still a farmed entity no less than before. Lower output is purely due to the drop rate % only.

[chevy79bu]

Lol I don't know why all the fuss...literally every character I make I level them up in SKarana and run into quillmane on them and get a cloak. That's not even trying to spawn the dam thing... people just want things instantly and not have to wait...EQ is just that, a waiting game.

[cd288]

TL/DR you never got laid before

Lol, have you matured past age 14?

[Trexller]

Lol, have you matured past age 14?

that dude's maturity and your adult virginity seem like 2 different issues.

[cd288]

I know, it's a huge problem honestly

[grims]

New Quillmane setup is cheeks. You can spend over 12 hours killing spawns solo as only person in zone and never spawn it. I had this experience on red. New system heavily advantages only tracking classes. I never had this issue with blue or green.

I respect the devs and mods but at the same time they got this new system wrong it only advantages people built to track/ pay someone to do so and makes getting a cloak near impossible for others.

That or you are forced to rely on friends without compensating them for their time / create a tracker yourself for a singular item.

[Jimjam]

Friends are usually happy to help without agreed compensation as they enjoy your company and it makes them feel needed, boosting their self esteem.

I don’t see a problem with an encounter requiring track. Many others require lock picking, defensive, cheal, ports, etc.

[grims]

Levi is important to be able to be competitive in a pvp sense and PVE can be life saving for a mid level character while having nearly no access to it without track.

What other item in the game that is needed consistently to safely complete content is impossible locked behind a tracking, lock picking, defensive or complete heal wall under 50

pretty sure its none of them and a lot of people don't want to hassle other people to time sink other peoples time
Pretty sure its none of them

[Arvan]

wait till this guy needs to gear a warrior

[Knuckle]

It took some deep digging but this quillmane change was confirmed to be lobbied by big shaman alchemy consortium. The Levi pot prices are on a steady rise.

[cd288]

Levi is important to be able to be competitive in a pvp sense and PVE can be life saving for a mid level character while having nearly no access to it without track.

What other item in the game that is needed consistently to safely complete content is impossible locked behind a tracking, lock picking, defensive or complete heal wall under 50

pretty sure its none of them and a lot of people don't want to hassle other people to time sink other peoples time
Pretty sure its none of them

Think I got a lev cloak on maybe one of my characters? It's really not important to have for your average player in any way. The only real time it becomes very valuable to have is in situations like quakes or trying to contest spawns in ToV/WW/DN where you don't have time to wait for someone to come along and lev you in CS for the run to SG (assuming you didn't locket bind at TOV). Other than that it's really just a completely "nice to have but not really needed" item.

Next thing you know this guy and bigplays are going to be complaining that too many people roll on the drops they need in HoT.

[Jimjam]

I mean it is frustrating where like 1 tank and 3 clerics show up to HoT/Wexit but you have 30 people roll on plate. :o

[cd288]

I mean it is frustrating where like 1 tank and 3 clerics show up to HoT/Wexit but you have 30 people roll on plate. :o

Lol aint that the truth

[Ooloo]

New Quillmane setup is cheeks. You can spend over 12 hours killing spawns solo as only person in zone and never spawn it. I had this experience on red. New system heavily advantages only tracking classes. I never had this issue with blue or green.

I respect the devs and mods but at the same time they got this new system wrong it only advantages people built to track/ pay someone to do so and makes getting a cloak near impossible for others.

That or you are forced to rely on friends without compensating them for their time / create a tracker yourself for a singular item.

Tracking classes have always been advantaged toward quillmane. She has multiple spawn points that are chosen at random, in a huge outdoor zone. Rangers with max tracking can only track about a 4500 unit radius, which isn't even close to the whole zone, but they still have a huge advantage even before this change.

Quillmane hard to get: confirmed working.

[BigPlays]

"It's tough to argue with a smart person, but it's impossible to argue with an idiot." The fact that the Quillmane change didn't change the # (except for the reduced drop rate %) of cloaks looted, but rather the # classes who could do it (yes I've heard ad nauseum about how anyone can) without even more frustration is just shameful. The posts about the reasoning behind the change is pure nonsense. That's the point. Quillmane is still a farmed entity no less than before. Lower output is purely due to the drop rate % only.

My biggest gripe with this is that they changed it in the middle of nowhere based off of someone who read some forum post. If we are to follow this, then I can dig up any post from say 2002 and argue it should be this or that way. AC was never a 6 min static spawn in OOT but here we are.

[BigPlays]

Tracking classes have always been advantaged toward quillmane. She has multiple spawn points that are chosen at random, in a huge outdoor zone. Rangers with max tracking can only track about a 4500 unit radius, which isn't even close to the whole zone, but they still have a huge advantage even before this change.

Quillmane hard to get: confirmed working.

If we are going to go this route, then let's make it that you need to use the classic UI under classic locked resolution and state at your med book till 35. I mean if we want classic may as well go all in right?

[Lune]

New system heavily advantages only tracking classes.

..... oh NO!

[loramin]

If we are going to go this route, then let's make it that you need to use the classic UI under classic locked resolution and state at your med book till 35. I mean if we want classic may as well go all in right?

We did have both forced books while medding and classic ui locking on Green; both were removed when it was time period appropriate.

Was either one perfectly classic? No, but when you recreate a 20+ year-old game things often aren't.

[greenspectre]

My biggest gripe with this is that they changed it in the middle of nowhere based off of someone who read some forum post. If we are to follow this, then I can dig up any post from say 2002 and argue it should be this or that way. AC was never a 6 min static spawn in OOT but here we are.

Actually, you CAN do this. If enough posts line up and you post in the Bug forum with enough evidence, they WILL look into it and adjust mechanics accordingly (except not 2002 because that was Luclin/PoP era).

QM was changed because of an actual dev interview. Sro is less clear, but seriously if you can find enough evidence that matches up, post it in the bug forum!

[BigPlays]

That's not true. It was changed based on an Allah post from 2009 and data from EQ live that Haynar collected in 2021.

This. One person posted some post from zam and here we are

[Ooloo]

If we are going to go this route, then let's make it that you need to use the classic UI under classic locked resolution and state at your med book till 35. I mean if we want classic may as well go all in right?

I dunno if this is news to you, but p99 runs on the titanium client, which was developed way after the vanilla-velious period. There are some things here they simply cannot change, but the unpaid volunteers try to bypass those limitations as best they can.

Everquest isn't a single player game, and the technology and engineering that the original game was based on is lost to time, so you sound like a doofus complaining about "unclassic changes!!!" and attributing some kind of malicious intent to the p99 devs.

[Ooloo]

There are drop shadows around pc and npc names, the sky\cloud graphics are completely different, the letterbox UI with the tiny viewport isn't available, the boat models look different and you levitate on them! What a bunch of UNCLASSIC changes!!

[BigPlays]

There are drop shadows around pc and npc names, the sky\cloud graphics are completely different, the letterbox UI with the tiny viewport isn't available, the boat models look different and you levitate on them! What a bunch of UNCLASSIC changes!!

You are missing the point. Secrets got boats working fine bro. Fact is it is up to the team here who decides how classic something is. And you can get the classic UI too...it has been out there for a while.

[Ooloo]

You are missing the point. Secrets got boats working fine bro. Fact is it is up to the team here who decides how classic something is. And you can get the classic UI too...it has been out there for a while.

Lol no I'm not missing any points I don't think you understood anything I said

[Jimjam]

You are missing the point. Secrets got boats working fine bro. Fact is it is up to the team here who decides how classic something is. And you can get the classic UI too...it has been out there for a while.

You have an excellent irony meter and no sarcasm gets by you!

[BigPlays]

You have an excellent irony meter and no sarcasm gets by you!

I'm just saying that this is a pick and choose what is classic server. I get that they try their best but there is no consistency.

Unless there is solid, 100% proof that something worked a certain way, don't go by some post made in 2009 when a dev who wrote the code says it is something completely different

[nilbog]

I'm just saying that this is a pick and choose what is classic server. I get that they try their best but there is no consistency.

Unless there is solid, 100% proof that something worked a certain way, don't go by some post made in 2009 when a dev who wrote the code says it is something completely different

I think you are missing a very relevant point. The original p99 script, I wrote.

So, is your argument I shouldn't choose between 2 different scripts I wrote to determine what is more classic?

If you review the original bug report, it was on a list to revisit, and I did.

[BigPlays]

I think you are missing a very relevant point. The original p99 script, I wrote.

So, is your argument I shouldn't choose between 2 different scripts I wrote to determine what is more classic?

If you review the original bug report, it was on a list to revisit, and I did.

I'm not telling anyone what they should or should not chose. It's your project your rules. However, my main gripe was changing it years after server launch and not waiting until a reset. The original way it spawned is pretty much the way it spawns on every single EMU I played on (mostly Devnoob/Image servers)

My second gripe is what I mentioned before. The AC spawn in OOT is a similar situation where it was never a static spawn but a roaming PH. I know this first hand because I killed it back in 2000 myself after camping it. ZAM pretty much backs it up. This was my point about picking and choosing what is and is not deemed classic.

Again it is your playground, your rules. I am just pointing out what I disagree with.

[Jimjam]

My second gripe is what I mentioned before. The AC spawn in OOT is a similar situation where it was never a static spawn but a roaming PH. I know this first hand because I killed it back in 2000 myself after camping it. ZAM pretty much backs it up. This was my point about picking and choosing what is and is not deemed classic.

Oof. If that is true it is a shame you didn’t share your knowledge online at the time instead of jealousy guarding your secret.

[Jimjam]

A look at archive.org provides a huge number of posts describing oot AC as a camp with spawn point matching p1999. https://web.archive.org/web/20060702135428/http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=28;page=1;howmany=50#109253701221 948

The only issue with the spawn here is it seems to be missing one of the PHers - an aqua goblin.

[Jimjam]

Oh they also mention ooc ac doesn’t involve unhealthy running around.

[Jimjam]

Sorry, broken link.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060702135428/http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=28

[Pootle]

I'm not telling anyone what they should or should not chose. It's your project your rules. However, my main gripe was changing it years after server launch and not waiting until a reset.

Sounds pretty classic to me.... Sony never reset servers every time they wanted to make a change.

[naexus]

This is one of the most entertaining cycles of this game in my opinion. I made a ranger just to do it. The only thing I would change about it is removing aviaks as a ph. All the false positives drive me nuts!