Simple QoL fixes that would not jeopardize classic?

[BigPlays]

I know people are pretty stiff when it comes to QoL changes. I know in Diablo Remastered they did a few like auto gold pickup and some minor spell tweaks.

I am wondering what QoL changed could be made for the next reset (if there is one).

1) Shrink indoors/outdoors - Would be nice for large races even though I never play them

2) Keeping legacy items in game - Rubicate other than the BP just adds AC. I never understood why it was removed. Especially since a Fungi costs like 60k. Also gives some life to CT. Same goes for the Guise. I understand the manastone and Jboots so those can remain as is.

3) Pet hotkeys at start - Sure you can make your own but I am not sure why this was never a thing that was patched in early on.

4) Reset the way Quillmane spawns - Again, should have just stayed the way it was. It ends up with one guild just camping it.

5) Remove hell levels - I never understood this mechanic. I think this was just there to keep people paying that monthly fee. In fact, I think a lot of mechanics are in game (week long dragon spawns, super rare drops etc) just to keep people paying the monthly fee.

Feel free to critique these and add some of you own!

[Ooloo]

Shrink already works indoors, and shrink potions (Ant pots) work both indoors and outdoors

I believe rubi was originally removed because they wanted to implement those various class armor quests like totemic\crafted. The BP is only super valuable pre-kunark. Iksar ceremonial chestplate is only about 10k and provides much better regen if you can't afford a fungi. But yeah fungi will always be king of worn regen.

Hell levels I believe were just some kind of glitch in the way xp was calculated, they were "removed" during luclin by just distributing that extra xp over the various other levels so you never noticed, but the total amount of xp to hit 60 never changed.

I don't think the original quillmane spawn mechanics were ever documented, so the various implementations on p99 have just been an approximation by the devs to make it feel random and difficult. When I played on live in 99-01, nobody was just cranking out quillmanes like they do here. It was very much still a mystery to most people even during velious. IMO the quillmane spawn should just be treated like a raid mob with a huge variance window, many random spawn locations and FTE rules. Any version of triggering gets figured out and then SK becomes a lev cloak factory, which just feels super lame.

[Seducio]

Cazic Thule eventually gets a revamp that is pretty amazing but will never happen on p99 due to being out of era. TAKP has it if you want to check it out.

Without Rubicite dropping CT the zone becomes a ghost town sadly. Great place to hunt otherwise. Many memories here back in original game. Exotic location.

I agree I don't think the original devs should have removed this armor. Rubi pieces aren't OP in any way.

Interesting list otherwise. Cheers

[Jimjam]

Shrink already works indoors, and shrink potions (Ant pots) work both indoors and outdoors

I believe rubi was originally removed because they wanted to implement those various class armor quests like totemic\crafted. The BP is only super valuable pre-kunark. Iksar ceremonial chestplate is only about 10k and provides much better regen if you can't afford a fungi. But yeah fungi will always be king of worn regen.

Hell levels I believe were just some kind of glitch in the way xp was calculated, they were "removed" during luclin by just distributing that extra xp over the various other levels so you never noticed, but the total amount of xp to hit 60 never changed.

I don't think the original quillmane spawn mechanics were ever documented, so the various implementations on p99 have just been an approximation by the devs to make it feel random and difficult. When I played on live in 99-01, nobody was just cranking out quillmanes like they do here. It was very much still a mystery to most people even during velious. IMO the quillmane spawn should just be treated like a raid mob with a huge variance window, many random spawn locations and FTE rules. Any version of triggering gets figured out and then SK becomes a lev cloak factory, which just feels super lame.

I think it is best for devs to reshuffle classic 'unknown' spawn mechanics once we suss out how they work on p99. Like S Ro AC, Quillmane, stuff like that.

[Ooloo]

Cazic Thule eventually gets a revamp that is pretty amazing but will never happen on p99 due to being out of era.

Yeah that revamp was awesome, and it happened not too long after luclin dropped.

One idea for "custom content" on p99 might be to implement additional zones and revamps that occurred\take place within the original content of the game. CT revamp, jaggedpine forest etc. Tinker as necessary to bring the loot in line with velious. It would be both "custom" and also familiar.

[cd288]

Any version of triggering gets figured out and then SK becomes a lev cloak factory, which just feels super lame.

And a set guaranteed spawn within a variance window and FTE doesn't turn it into a lev cloak factory? Lol...

[Tewaz]

And a set guaranteed spawn within a variance window and FTE doesn't turn it into a lev cloak factory? Lol...

It was this way for years and it wasn't a "lev cloak factory". Lol...

[Toxigen]

how about dot damage back

[Nycon43]

DoT damage in chat log, remove pets stealing exp.

[Swish]

https://i.imgur.com/apRp7TQ.gif

[Vivitron]

1. Auto server boot characters that die twice without sending input between the deaths.
2. Make summoned bags leave the contents on your cursor or revert to unusably heavy bags instead of eating your gear after 30 min disconnect.

Dot damage would be nice, even if just added in on a post-timeline qol patch.

[BigPlays]

Anything in the game that was designed to keep players playing "specifically" because of the monthly fee should be looked at or adjusted. They removed the Hybrid experience penalty, so I think removing pets taking 50% exp makes sense as well. The DoT dmg reduction while moving is also dumb and should never have been added to EQ.

I think certain things in the game are hard by design but others like one week spawns, the drop % of rare loot etc were there intentionally to keep people paying $$. I think if they made this game today, knowing how everything evolved, EQ would have exp pots for real cash, buy PP for cash, buy cosmetic items for cash, just like live EQ today. It would probably be free to play, so you can twink out a lv 1 character without killing a mob.

[cd288]

Anything in the game that was designed to keep players playing "specifically" because of the monthly fee should be looked at or adjusted. They removed the Hybrid experience penalty, so I think removing pets taking 50% exp makes sense as well. The DoT dmg reduction while moving is also dumb and should never have been added to EQ.

I think certain things in the game are hard by design but others like one week spawns, the drop % of rare loot etc were there intentionally to keep people paying $$. I think if they made this game today, knowing how everything evolved, EQ would have exp pots for real cash, buy PP for cash, buy cosmetic items for cash, just like live EQ today. It would probably be free to play, so you can twink out a lv 1 character without killing a mob.

None of those things in your first paragraph were done because of monthly subscriptions. Hybrid exp penalties were implemented because on paper SOE thought hybrids would be more powerful than other classes (kind of right with Bards, but otherwise ended up being incorrect which is why they ended up removing). Pets taking 50% exp was done for balance purposes because otherwise no one would play any other class nor would there be any benefit to a pet class grouping. DoT damage while moving is also for balance purposes because it would be cheap/cheesy to allow someone like a Druid to just easily kite mobs without any risk because they get full DoT damage while moving. Nothing has anything to do with subscriber money.

[cd288]

It was this way for years and it wasn't a "lev cloak factory". Lol...

It is either way. Just more lev cloaks when you can trigger the spawn vs having guaranteed number of spawns per day.

[BigPlays]

None of those things in your first paragraph were done because of monthly subscriptions. Hybrid exp penalties were implemented because on paper SOE thought hybrids would be more powerful than other classes (kind of right with Bards, but otherwise ended up being incorrect which is why they ended up removing). Pets taking 50% exp was done for balance purposes because otherwise no one would play any other class nor would there be any benefit to a pet class grouping. DoT damage while moving is also for balance purposes because it would be cheap/cheesy to allow someone like a Druid to just easily kite mobs without any risk because they get full DoT damage while moving. Nothing has anything to do with subscriber money.

I do not think everyone would play a pet class simply because it did not take 50% of the exp. I think people would play them because they like to solo or just like the play style. DoT damage makes no sense because if you are moving you are not medding. So the time you lose while just running and not medding seems to be worse than just rooting.

I do think a decent amount the logistics around things in the game took the sub $$ into consideration. Now that it is FTP, they added in a bunch of things you can buy like exp pots. The goal of EQ was for them to make $$ off of subs because things like micro transactions did not exist at the time. If micro transactions were a thing I would guarantee EQ would have been a different game.

[cd288]

I do not think everyone would play a pet class simply because it did not take 50% of the exp. I think people would play them because they like to solo or just like the play style. DoT damage makes no sense because if you are moving you are not medding. So the time you lose while just running and not medding seems to be worse than just rooting.

I do think a decent amount the logistics around things in the game took the sub $$ into consideration. Now that it is FTP, they added in a bunch of things you can buy like exp pots. The goal of EQ was for them to make $$ off of subs because things like micro transactions did not exist at the time. If micro transactions were a thing I would guarantee EQ would have been a different game.

I was CSR back in the classic era and they definitely weren't doing things like pet exp etc. due to subscriber dollars. You seem to not recall the actual history of EQ and that this was essentially the first legitimate MMO ever made...no one was making game design decisions based around subscriber numbers (the original devs didn't even think they'd get like 100k subscribers, they thought this was going to be a minor niche game played by some D&D nerds). They designed the game the way they did upfront and then made balance changes as things went along. You're just not correct when it comes to classic era EQ.

Subscriber-based game design decisions didn't start really coming into play until like Luclin. Things they've done in the 2020s with a FTP and dying game have literally no applicability or relevance to classic era EQ and "what they would've done" lol

[sajbert]

Buyback function from vendors
Reclaim command for non-questreward turn-ins to NPCs

[Jimjam]

There is buy back … hell anyone on the server can buy back ��

An extra buy back seems rife for dupes.

[cd288]

Buyback function from vendors
Reclaim command for non-questreward turn-ins to NPCs

Yeah any sort of reclaim command for messed up quest turn ins would be good too. Would probably save the staff time on reimbursing for messed up epics etc (which I believe they do IIRC)

[BigPlays]

Yeah any sort of reclaim command for messed up quest turn ins would be good too. Would probably save the staff time on reimbursing for messed up epics etc (which I believe they do IIRC)

Or in my case when I went to do the final soulfire turn in I thought I had enough faction and did not. He should just say you are not ready and spit the items back. So I totally back something like this

[Jimjam]

Or in my case when I went to do the final soulfire turn in I thought I had enough faction and did not. He should just say you are not ready and spit the items back. So I totally back something like this

Current mechanic encourages you to engage in dialogue with NPCs instead of blindly spamming hand ins. + immersion +++ working as intended.

[Gloomlord]

I was CSR back in the classic era and they definitely weren't doing things like pet exp etc. due to subscriber dollars. You seem to not recall the actual history of EQ and that this was essentially the first legitimate MMO ever made...no one was making game design decisions based around subscriber numbers (the original devs didn't even think they'd get like 100k subscribers, they thought this was going to be a minor niche game played by some D&D nerds). They designed the game the way they did upfront and then made balance changes as things went along. You're just not correct when it comes to classic era EQ.

Subscriber-based game design decisions didn't start really coming into play until like Luclin. Things they've done in the 2020s with a FTP and dying game have literally no applicability or relevance to classic era EQ and "what they would've done" lol

Didn't they say the same thing about WoW back in the 2000s? That only a niche would play it and that it wouldn't be that successful?

These are just lies. Of course EverQuest was about getting drawing out subscriber money by any means necessary.

I mean, I'm playing this game regularly for the experience, but I have no qualms admitting a lot of this game is extremely dull and monotonous grinding that exists for the sole purpose of keeping people in the game longer.

[cd288]

Didn't they say the same thing about WoW back in the 2000s? That only a niche would play it and that it wouldn't be that successful?

These are just lies. Of course EverQuest was about getting drawing out subscriber money by any means necessary.

I mean, I'm playing this game regularly for the experience, but I have no qualms admitting a lot of this game is extremely dull and monotonous grinding that exists for the sole purpose of keeping people in the game longer.

Nope, with WoW they knew they had a potential audience and definitely made design decisions around trying to substantially increase their already high projected subscribers.

There's literally no logical sense saying devs from 1999 lied when they said they had no idea EQ would be as popular as it was. it had literally never been done before in a true MMO fashion. Shit they didn't even have enough bandwidth for the number of subscribers they had at launch. UO had about 120k subscribers, and take this quote about the devs' expectations vs that from the PC Gamer article: "But EverQuest was a cutting-edge game that required a computer with a 3D graphics card, a somewhat novel piece of hardware in 1999. The team would be excited if it sold even a quarter as many copies."

As CSR we were privy to some of the ongoing internal discussions about potential game changes and not once in the early days of EQ did I ever hear something being done with the goal of increasing subscribers. As we've seen in the height of WoW days, the way to increase subscribers isn't to make the game more grueling like EQ (and make design changes mid-game that just make things way more annoying), it's to make it easier and more straight forward, fully soloable until end game, etc.

You're looking at all of this through the lens of 2023. In 1999, no one knew what kind of a cash cow MMOs could be. The monthly subscription was basically proposed primarily as an idea to offset server costs to SOE given how expensive it was to run an online game back then. Devs thought it would be a somewhat successful RPG with less than 100k subscribers. They just built the game they wanted to see at the time, not with "how do we keep subscribers grinding and paying"

[BigPlays]

So here is what I am trying to figure out. I always hear that the devs never intended people to play the way they do, sitting at camps for hours on end. Let's take LGuk for example. From what people say the devs thought during the interviews (I have not watched any of the interviews so I am going by word of mouth from the people who did) was that players would just adventure through the dungeon, get to the mob (say arch magi) kill him them just move on.

If that is the case, it would take forever to level if you were not constantly pulling mobs and you were just making a bee line to the camp (ignoring mobs off the beaten path)

If people just did that, then yeah it would keep people playing (and paying).

It is like we are all playing EQ wrong according to the devs.

[cd288]

So here is what I am trying to figure out. I always hear that the devs never intended people to play the way they do, sitting at camps for hours on end. Let's take LGuk for example. From what people say the devs thought during the interviews (I have not watched any of the interviews so I am going by word of mouth from the people who did) was that players would just adventure through the dungeon, get to the mob (say arch magi) kill him them just move on.

If that is the case, it would take forever to level if you were not constantly pulling mobs and you were just making a bee line to the camp (ignoring mobs off the beaten path)

If people just did that, then yeah it would keep people playing (and paying).

It is like we are all playing EQ wrong according to the devs.

How old are you? And I don't ask that in a condescending way, but you seem to not have either been around for the classic era or been much more than a kid in the several years leading up to EQ release. Which would explain why you have this weird fixation that the devs designed EQ to keep subscribers paying.

EQ was basically a 3D, online version of MUDs/D&D. In MUDs and D&D, you get together as a group and go on adventures crawling through dungeons. As previously shown, the devs thought they might get like 30k people to play EQ max. As a result, if you open a bunch of servers there is plenty ability for a group to get together and do a crawl through the whole dungeon. Sure, that might have taken people awhile to level, but that's not why the game was designed that way.

And, again, as already stated, the subscription fee wasn't even originally intended as a huge profit driver. It was there to offset the at the time very substantial cost of running the servers etc. Once the game really exploded and subscription cost became a big cash cow for SOE, you saw them start making changes that could arguably be geared towards keeping people subscribed and stuck in the game (basically around the time of Luclin release).

[loramin]

So here is what I am trying to figure out. I always hear that the devs never intended people to play the way they do, sitting at camps for hours on end. Let's take LGuk for example. From what people say the devs thought during the interviews (I have not watched any of the interviews so I am going by word of mouth from the people who did) was that players would just adventure through the dungeon, get to the mob (say arch magi) kill him them just move on.

Exactly. You'd hang out at the zone entrance until you formed a group, and then that group would start moving through the dungeon, trying to find a mob that drops something cool.

If that is the case, it would take forever to level if you were not constantly pulling mobs and you were just making a bee line to the camp (ignoring mobs off the beaten path)

Not at all: camping gets you loot, not more XP. You get the same XP whether you kill five mobs respawning four times, or whether you wander around killing twenty different mobs.

It is like we are all playing EQ wrong according to the devs.

You have to remember that when the game came out, no one knew the arch magi even existed, let alone that he dropped the Shining Metallic Robes and spawned at loc 1184, -832. Plus, even if you had that loc, there wasn't a map available to show you where that loc was.

It took a lot of time adventuring in Guk before people figured the details out, and then it took an even longer time before they added that info online. Also keep in mind there wasn't just one wiki, but many different sites (with separate, piecemeal data), that data often was inconsistent (or flat-out inaccurate), and many players didn't even read those sites at all ... some actually considered it cheating!

So, while you can learn just about anything by checking the wiki today, most EQ info took years to become common knowledge on live ... and you know what happened every year? A new expansion came out, with brand new zones/mobs/items.

I'm not going to pretend that on live no one ever camped a specific mob: they absolutely did. But the ratio of people "exploring" vs farming was drastically different on live. The developers back then certainly knew what they were doing ... they just didn't account for how much more game knowledge we'd have decades later.

[Gloomlord]

Okay, but how do you explain the grindiness of EQ if it wasn't about a subscriber treadmill?

Just take a look at some bottlenecks in this game. People will sit for hours on end waiting for a rare spawn and/or a rare item drop.

How was not about drawing the longevity of a game, and thus the longevity of a subscription?

[Jimjam]

The longevity is to keep players stuck on content until the next expac is ready to drop.

The devs had to really rush dev of expacs as even with the timesinks the hardcore could rush thru content.

Also scarcity of rares made them feel more valuable to players.

[Eyry]

Key ring please

[cd288]

Okay, but how do you explain the grindiness of EQ if it wasn't about a subscriber treadmill?

Just take a look at some bottlenecks in this game. People will sit for hours on end waiting for a rare spawn and/or a rare item drop.

How was not about drawing the longevity of a game, and thus the longevity of a subscription?

Again, you're looking at 1999 through 2023 glasses. Nothing they did in the design of the game in 1999 was for a subscriber treadmill. They didn't even think they'd get much more than 20-30k subscribers. You're forgetting this had never really been done before; there was no concept of "grindiness" or any of this other modern day MMO parlance/ideas/strategy...they just created a game and threw a bunch of ideas together and watched what happened (making balance changes later as things progressed post-launch).

The rare drops are because that's how they wanted the game to work. They thought people should work hard for rewards in this game.

[Ooloo]

It is either way. Just more lev cloaks when you can trigger the spawn vs having guaranteed number of spawns per day.

Yes, you answered your own question. It's much *more* of a lev cloak factory once you figure out the trigger mechanic. And I'm talking like a huge variance window that would effectively make it random, but much more rare. The point is that in 1999, quillmane was incredibly rare to ever see, even with dozens of wide-eyed EQ noobs packing the zone and killing every imaginable placeholder all day long. Some system of emulating that would be ideal, and credit to the devs for trying their best but the neckbeards always figure it out and start popping out multiple cloaks a day which strips it of all it's nerdy mystique.

[Ooloo]

How about: Once quillmane is killed, a 3 day window immediately begins during which she can spawn at any time. So she might spawn again immediately after being killed, or ten minutes later, or two days later. Always in a completely random location\pathing. So you're guaranteed at least 2 quillmanes a week, but statistically it would shake out to many more than that cause the window is usually not gonna go the full three days. And as always, whoever engages first gets it. This would mean that any time you go to SK, there's a chance that she's either already up or could pop at any time. There would never be a period during which you knew she couldn't pop.

I think that would simulate how most people encountered her in classic better than having the spawn tied to any trigger mob or placeholder.

[cd288]

Was it rare because the mechanic was different or was it rare just because people didn't know what they were doing?

I hardly remember SK having people killing "every imaginable placeholder all day long". Primarily people killed at KFC and the Gnoll spires, plus eventually the Treants once people realized how lucrative they were. I guess it could vary depending on the server, but I would be surprised because that would mean one server had figured it out which would've ended up online for sure.

Two years later in like 2001 people had started doing it a lot more, but for the first year and like a half or so I don't remember people trying to mass kill trash mobs in SK to try and get Quillmane to spawn, which would explain the rareness at the time.

[cdfurry]

My list of QOL fixes that I would love, and wouldnt think it would jeapardize classic:

Keyrings to simplify corpse looting
Bandolier for fast weapon swap for melees
Custom chat channels (officer, raid, class etc) to get all the raid chatter out of public spaces and make small guild alliances and team ups easier to manage

[Ralexia]

Another QOL change I'd like to see is reinstating spell sets for easier memorization.

[Coridan]

Originally they thought more people would RP, and hang out in the pubs and stuff, since they were all coming from the world of MUD/MUSHs. They likely would have dedicated more dev time to that kind of stuff but nobody bothered with it. WoW tried to provide a mechanical incentive for it but eventually took it out I think.

They had no idea the game would be played like it was.

[Jimjam]

Apparently the game was originally intended to be about 20 levels but they had to stretch it out as some players burned through it too quickly. The guy in charge of spells was also prolific, which I bet didn’t discourage them from stretching it out a bit too!

I suppose the long regen times and vulnerability while low hp/mana was intended to be the game play loop that rewarded resting in inns, but inns weren’t really safe enough spots to do that. Especially with griffons and giants pathing by inns/gypsy camps early in game programming you not to rest in such places.

[BigPlays]

How old are you? And I don't ask that in a condescending way, but you seem to not have either been around for the classic era or been much more than a kid in the several years leading up to EQ release. Which would explain why you have this weird fixation that the devs designed EQ to keep subscribers paying.

EQ was basically a 3D, online version of MUDs/D&D. In MUDs and D&D, you get together as a group and go on adventures crawling through dungeons. As previously shown, the devs thought they might get like 30k people to play EQ max. As a result, if you open a bunch of servers there is plenty ability for a group to get together and do a crawl through the whole dungeon. Sure, that might have taken people awhile to level, but that's not why the game was designed that way.

And, again, as already stated, the subscription fee wasn't even originally intended as a huge profit driver. It was there to offset the at the time very substantial cost of running the servers etc. Once the game really exploded and subscription cost became a big cash cow for SOE, you saw them start making changes that could arguably be geared towards keeping people subscribed and stuck in the game (basically around the time of Luclin release).

I played at Launch and I think the $9.99 fee was shocking for most people. Imagine paying for a game then paying more each month to play it.

I started watching some of these interviews on YT and the consensus was that Brad himself wanted this game to be hard. He wanted HP gained every level to be a roll of the dice..so like it could range from say 10-50. Imagine being a warrior and only gaining 10 hp per level and another guy got 50.

The devs on the other hand did not want all of this loot to be super rare. They did not want mana to regen as slow as it did. They ran this by Brad and he said no. And here is the problem..one dude was making all the decisions regardless if others said different.

Sure it was new at the time but UO was around for a while before this, so they had to have some frame of reference. And yeah, people played blind but eventually figured things out. They should have adjusted the game based off of what players were doing. But camping say the Arch Magi is not "hard" what is hard is that you have to site for hours if not days for the robe to drop. It's not hard it is just time consuming. Imagine you are in line for the next drop and you sub is coming due tomorrow. You are surely gonna resub.

[BigPlays]

Originally they thought more people would RP, and hang out in the pubs and stuff, since they were all coming from the world of MUD/MUSHs. They likely would have dedicated more dev time to that kind of stuff but nobody bothered with it. WoW tried to provide a mechanical incentive for it but eventually took it out I think.

They had no idea the game would be played like it was.

According to the interview the downtime was long because "Brad" thought it would be cool for players to shoot the shit for 36 minutes between spawns. I don't know about you but if you wanted to just shoot the shit with others you could just join a chat room. Brad was way off what he imagined how people would play this game. Sure there is a social aspect to it but to build spawn timers around that notion is crazy.

[Ooloo]

Was it rare because the mechanic was different or was it rare just because people didn't know what they were doing?

I hardly remember SK having people killing "every imaginable placeholder all day long". Primarily people killed at KFC and the Gnoll spires, plus eventually the Treants once people realized how lucrative they were. I guess it could vary depending on the server, but I would be surprised because that would mean one server had figured it out which would've ended up online for sure.

Two years later in like 2001 people had started doing it a lot more, but for the first year and like a half or so I don't remember people trying to mass kill trash mobs in SK to try and get Quillmane to spawn, which would explain the rareness at the time.

People in 1999 used to literally form groups to kill 2 or 3 mobs at outdoor camps that nobody touches now. The server populations were much higher, and since nobody really knew wtf they were doing they would just kill anything that conned blue. So yes there were guaranteed tons of people killing random shit in SK because they didn't know any better, who are not doing that now. So if popping quillmane is just a matter of running around clearing every conceivable placeholder, you should have seen her more often in 1999 than you do now. I played on povar from launch until 2002 after luclin was out and I only saw quillmane once, and would occasionally hear stories about other people killing her, basically always by just randomly finding her while passing through the zone. There were absolutely zero guilds requiring members to have quillmane cloaks, much less selling the loot rights to them.

[BigPlays]

People in 1999 used to literally form groups to kill 2 or 3 mobs at outdoor camps that nobody touches now. The server populations were much higher, and since nobody really knew wtf they were doing they would just kill anything that conned blue. So yes there were guaranteed tons of people killing random shit in SK because they didn't know any better, who are not doing that now. So if popping quillmane is just a matter of running around clearing every conceivable placeholder, you should have seen her more often in 1999 than you do now. I played on povar from launch until 2002 after luclin was out and I only saw quillmane once, and would occasionally hear stories about other people killing her, basically always by just randomly finding her while passing through the zone. There were absolutely zero guilds requiring members to have quillmane cloaks, much less selling the loot rights to them.

I lived in SK as a druid back in 1999 and I can say I only seen QM once. That zone was always camped, probably 70-80 people easy. It was a ta apoint where nothing would even be on tracking because people all levels were killing..from 10-35ish.

[Vanifac]

According to the interview the downtime was long because "Brad" thought it would be cool for players to shoot the shit for 36 minutes between spawns. I don't know about you but if you wanted to just shoot the shit with others you could just join a chat room. Brad was way off what he imagined how people would play this game. Sure there is a social aspect to it but to build spawn timers around that notion is crazy.

That's an insane reduction of what was actually going on. The social aspect of the game *was* a massive piece of the game back then. People *did* log in just to use it as a chat room.

And for a vast majority, it's not like they were killing one single spawn then sitting and waiting for 36* minutes. People were shit at the game and had bad gear and did bad damage. Holding a camp was not what it is today.


*interesting that you choose a number that's almost double the average respawn time of a dungeon, too.

"According to the interview the downtime was long because "Brad" thought it would be cool for players to shoot the shit for 36 minutes between spawns." Link?

[BigPlays]

That's an insane reduction of what was actually going on. The social aspect of the game *was* a massive piece of the game back then. People *did* log in just to use it as a chat room.

And for a vast majority, it's not like they were killing one single spawn then sitting and waiting for 36* minutes. People were shit at the game and had bad gear and did bad damage. Holding a camp was not what it is today.


*interesting that you choose a number that's almost double the average respawn time of a dungeon, too.

"According to the interview the downtime was long because "Brad" thought it would be cool for players to shoot the shit for 36 minutes between spawns." Link?

Somewhere before the hour mark not sure I remember the time

[Jimjam]

That's an insane reduction of what was actually going on. The social aspect of the game *was* a massive piece of the game back then. People *did* log in just to use it as a chat room.

And for a vast majority, it's not like they were killing one single spawn then sitting and waiting for 36* minutes. People were shit at the game and had bad gear and did bad damage. Holding a camp was not what it is today.


*interesting that you choose a number that's almost double the average respawn time of a dungeon, too.

"According to the interview the downtime was long because "Brad" thought it would be cool for players to shoot the shit for 36 minutes between spawns." Link?

fights took freaking ages cos you'd see rogues with tarnished spear at hhk goblins cos they didn't have a bronze spear drop when they were doing orcs/gnolls.

Paladin tank, 3 priests, a wizard with no mana and a rogue. Classic group comp. Takes 3 mins to kill 1 blue. Takes 3 mins to recover. 6 mins / mob, room of 3 mobs = 18 mins of kills. Wiggle room for bio breaks / keeping spawns spaced.

[Dolalin]

Paladin tank, 3 priests, a wizard with no mana and a rogue. Classic group comp. Takes 3 mins to kill 1 blue. Takes 3 mins to recover. 6 mins / mob, room of 3 mobs = 18 mins of kills. Wiggle room for bio breaks / keeping spawns spaced.

This guy classic EQ'd

[Ooloo]

Honestly the downtime really was a huge part of the social experience. These days in groups I've noticed people rarely talk, the pulling might be non-stop but it doesn't really feel like a group.

I was actually kind of reminded of that old social experience during the early days of green when all the /list camps were in. They were brutal, but it kind of felt like you were in the trenches with these other people and there was a lot of socializing when I did them (only did guise and rubi bp). I bumped into a guy a few months ago who I was at the guise camp with and we actually both remembered eachother.

[Jimjam]

I liked /list. Personally I really started feeling invested in the success of other people I saw going through lists at the same time as me. Having a system that encouraged people to spend downtime together created an experience which reminded me of classic sociability.

[cd288]

That's an insane reduction of what was actually going on. The social aspect of the game *was* a massive piece of the game back then. People *did* log in just to use it as a chat room.

And for a vast majority, it's not like they were killing one single spawn then sitting and waiting for 36* minutes. People were shit at the game and had bad gear and did bad damage. Holding a camp was not what it is today.


*interesting that you choose a number that's almost double the average respawn time of a dungeon, too.

"According to the interview the downtime was long because "Brad" thought it would be cool for players to shoot the shit for 36 minutes between spawns." Link?

This guy just spouts random stuff as though he has knowledge. The more he posts the more it's clear he didn't actually play during the classic era. Probably joined during SOL or something

[BigPlays]

This guy just spouts random stuff as though he has knowledge. The more he posts the more it's clear he didn't actually play during the classic era. Probably joined during SOL or something

I posted the link just watch the interview. I played during classic because my warrior dual wielded PGTs when they were pending lore. That shit was made lore well before manastone was taken out or jboots moved.

[cd288]

I posted the link just watch the interview. I played during classic because my warrior dual wielded PGTs when they were pending lore. That shit was made lore well before manastone was taken out or jboots moved.

I'm surprised you played during classic yet talk like you have zero knowledge of the game

[Trelaboon]

I always felt like guise was removed for the sole purpose that with it in existence, virtually no one would make a Dark Elf. Just like how very few Dark Elf Rogues exist; if the guise was never removed, there’d probably never be dark elves of any other class either

[Lopretni]

pet windows, tab targeting, pretty much all the qol stuff that was intentionally broken because "muh classic". maps broken on purpose just so neckbeards can be smug to new players "UM MAPS AREN'T CLASSIC, YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE LAYOUT YOURSELF BECAUSE THAT'S LE HARDCORE!" meanwhile we all know everyone uses that EQmap program anyway, it's so fake and performative.

[Toxigen]

you dont need maps, learn the zone

DoT dmg tho...that...that is kinda important

[silo32]

I always felt like guise was removed for the sole purpose that with it in existence, virtually no one would make a Dark Elf. Just like how very few Dark Elf Rogues exist; if the guise was never removed, there’d probably never be dark elves of any other class either

This... everyone would have a guise.

This isn't world or Warcraft.. this thought process is what ended eq. Everyone wanted thunder fury blessed blade of the wind seeker...

[jolanar]

Not seeing DoT damage ruined playing DoT classes for me. I know it's all mental but don't care. Bring back DoT damage.