Was Qeynos really one of the first cities designed?

[BigPlays]

I always felt that the Qeynos area was rushed through and always seemed unfinished to me. You have Qeynos, and then QH which is just bare bones. Then you have Surefall which seems like it was supposed to be a main town but is more like an outpost.

Blackburrow seems like a good newbie dungeon but then the whole area just falls off. NK/WK are huge areas which just a spattering of mobs and nothing very valuable dropping. After BB, it looks like Paw (old paw) was the next logical place but was never that much higher than BB.

Which brings us to Freeport which seems very polished. Natural progression and tons of dungeons to choose from. You can do Befallen then his Oasis, Upper Guk, Lower Guk and literally get to 50 easy. Or you can do Befallen, Najena, Sol A and Sol B.

So am I wrong in thinking the devs started out in Qeynos, then just stopped caring about that area?

[Jimjam]

Qeynos is amazing on live. The NPCs there have so much to say and there are plenty of little adventures and mysteries they send you on. I wish the full game felt as finished as the first 9 levels in Qeynos!

[cadoipi]

I always felt that the Qeynos area was rushed through and always seemed unfinished to me. You have Qeynos, and then QH which is just bare bones. Then you have Surefall which seems like it was supposed to be a main town but is more like an outpost.

Blackburrow seems like a good newbie dungeon but then the whole area just falls off. NK/WK are huge areas which just a spattering of mobs and nothing very valuable dropping. After BB, it looks like Paw (old paw) was the next logical place but was never that much higher than BB.

Which brings us to Freeport which seems very polished. Natural progression and tons of dungeons to choose from. You can do Befallen then his Oasis, Upper Guk, Lower Guk and literally get to 50 easy. Or you can do Befallen, Najena, Sol A and Sol B.

So am I wrong in thinking the devs started out in Qeynos, then just stopped caring about that area?

Perhaps it would have been better to remove WK and make NK = NK+EK (with the long canyon like path to Highpass shortened).

I partially suspect the extreme width of WK and the length of the canyon in EK were due to someone from marketing wanting the run from Qeynos to FP to be shocking long.

[BigPlays]

Perhaps it would have been better to remove WK and make NK = NK+EK (with the long canyon like path to Highpass shortened).

I partially suspect the extreme width of WK and the length of the canyon in EK were due to someone from marketing wanting the run from Qeynos to FP to be shocking long.

I kinda wonder if the intent was to make Qeynos "just" a starter area. But there are a lot of broken quests there like that warrior sword (forgot the name) and a few others. Plus, isn't it odd that two of the arguably best in slot items (SBS and FB earing) are in QH and require almost no effort to get other than waiting? The mobs are very low level and makes it seem like they threw it in there last minute.

Even if you factor everfrost, there is nothing there except for Perma which is a pretty high level zone and there is a gap between that and BB.

[cdfurry]

I have always made Qeynos my home for all my characters. but i also never solo so thsi isnt for everyone. I personally felt like qeynos was more finished than freeport but i think it maybe just subjective on what you are familiar with.

North Qeynos 1-4 typical beetles, snakes, skeletons
Qeynos hills 5-8 gnolls, putrid skeletons
Blackburrow 8-12 gnolls
West Karanas 12-15 bandits
permafrost 15-30 goblins of course
paw 30+ maybe?

youve got gnoll fangs along the way to turn in for exp
bandit sashes mostly for a little plat building

[Worry]

Funnily enough, I think Qeynos is one of the better starting areas.

[Kirdan]

Counting Guk as part of the "Freeport area" is pretty silly, it's like 1 zone further away from Qeynos than it is from Freeport. Freeport and the surrounding areas have a serious lack of polish/flavor. It's just a bunch of orcs and dervs in either the grass or the desert. Qeynos has a ton of quests and mob variety around it. The only thing Freeport really has going for it is access to OOT and the EC tunnel.

Regarding Paw, it's supposed to be a low-level dungeon on a fresh server and then change to mid-level at some point in the timeline. We haven't had a chance to try that on p99 yet, but it should be active next launch.

[cd288]

I always felt that the Qeynos area was rushed through and always seemed unfinished to me. You have Qeynos, and then QH which is just bare bones. Then you have Surefall which seems like it was supposed to be a main town but is more like an outpost.

Blackburrow seems like a good newbie dungeon but then the whole area just falls off. NK/WK are huge areas which just a spattering of mobs and nothing very valuable dropping. After BB, it looks like Paw (old paw) was the next logical place but was never that much higher than BB.

Which brings us to Freeport which seems very polished. Natural progression and tons of dungeons to choose from. You can do Befallen then his Oasis, Upper Guk, Lower Guk and literally get to 50 easy. Or you can do Befallen, Najena, Sol A and Sol B.

So am I wrong in thinking the devs started out in Qeynos, then just stopped caring about that area?

Respectfully, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Because by comparison Qeynos is actually one of the most, if not the most, fleshed out starting areas out of all the original old world options.

There are a plethora of quests (some quite interesting lore-wise) through the area and the Karanas that give good exp at low levels. A very well-designed dungeon right on the doorstep, great faction lore and the catacombs are awesome, etc. No other area until FoB comes close.

[magnetaress]

Qeynos is amazing on live. The NPCs there have so much to say and there are plenty of little adventures and mysteries they send you on. I wish the full game felt as finished as the first 9 levels in Qeynos!

This, if someone actually talks to the NPCs Qeynos is the best.

[BigPlays]

Respectfully, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Because by comparison Qeynos is actually one of the most, if not the most, fleshed out starting areas out of all the original old world options.

There are a plethora of quests (some quite interesting lore-wise) through the area and the Karanas that give good exp at low levels. A very well-designed dungeon right on the doorstep, great faction lore and the catacombs are awesome, etc. No other area until FoB comes close.

The city itself seems fleshed out, but progression wise, the area seems unfinished. BB to Perma would only get you so far. The level difference between the hardest gobs and ice giants is huge. If you count revamped paw then maybe it would get you from 30-45.

FP > Nek > Lava - This gets you three dungeons, in one zone, that can take you from 15-50.

FP> Nro> Oasis > SRo> Swamp > Uguk > Lguk takes you from 1-50.

Qeynos > BB takes you to 15. Say you do Perma, that takes you to what? 35 tops?

If you want to run from Qeynos to any of the zones I mentioned near FP, you would need to go past FP to get to them.

Even if you go to Fay...you have CB > Unrest > MM will take you to 40. Then you can hit OOT to get 50.

Qeynos might be a polished city, but the areas around it are unfinished.

[Jimjam]

I kinda wonder if the intent was to make Qeynos "just" a starter area. But there are a lot of broken quests there like that warrior sword (forgot the name) and a few others. Plus, isn't it odd that two of the arguably best in slot items (SBS and FB earing) are in QH and require almost no effort to get other than waiting? The mobs are very low level and makes it seem like they threw it in there last minute.

Even if you factor everfrost, there is nothing there except for Perma which is a pretty high level zone and there is a gap between that and BB.

Rumour is the game was initially intended to have 20 levels, but on realising player appetite for xp it got changed to 50, which is why some of the earliest designed bits seem to be disproportionately low level. Idk if there is any truth to that though.

[Ooloo]

EQ was a pretty new thing, they were trying to one-up ultima online which is a fundamentally different game than EQ in basically every way, other than being fantasy based and multiplayer. So you do find a big hodgepodge of ideas in vanilla EQ. Like magic weapons. Seems like an interesting idea, but it didn't take long for basically every weapon worth having in the entire game to be magic by default, so it might as well not even be a mechanic in the first place.

They probably didn't consider any particular area finished or unfinished at launch, it was more like "okay I think we can ship this, let's see what happens".

[BigPlays]

EQ was a pretty new thing, they were trying to one-up ultima online which is a fundamentally different game than EQ in basically every way, other than being fantasy based and multiplayer. So you do find a big hodgepodge of ideas in vanilla EQ. Like magic weapons. Seems like an interesting idea, but it didn't take long for basically every weapon worth having in the entire game to be magic by default, so it might as well not even be a mechanic in the first place.

They probably didn't consider any particular area finished or unfinished at launch, it was more like "okay I think we can ship this, let's see what happens".

back then I do not think they had open beta tests which would explain a lot not having customer feedback. Decisions like nerfing the guise and removing something like the Rubicate armor never made sense to me...especially since the only piece of Ruby worth anything was the BP.

[Ooloo]

back then I do not think they had open beta tests which would explain a lot not having customer feedback. Decisions like nerfing the guise and removing something like the Rubicate armor never made sense to me...especially since the only piece of Ruby worth anything was the BP.

They did have a beta for the game prior to launch, but yeah they didn't really player test any of the individual ongoing patches. Those decisions were probably made by a small handful of people at verant\sony.

[PabloEdvardo]

qeynos was what they developed as proof of concept for investors

once they got funded, they had to meet shipping deadlines, and you can see how the rest of the game (basically from then on) was rushed

I strongly believe it's a great example of why Pantheon will never be successful. While EQ has lots of failed ideas and unfinished work, it was the investor pressure to ship that ultimately got us the game. Given infinite time, devs will never ship (e.g. Star Citizen).

[Videri]

Suppose Qeynos was the first city they designed, and thereafter they got better and better at it.

They did put extra effort into Qeynos questlines. Some of them fork, some of them intersect, etc, and I don’t think any other towns/regions can boast the same.

So maybe they went into too much detail on Qeynos quests, and everywhere else in the pre-Kunark world didn’t get so much attention; but the adventure zones were more and more in-depth. With Guk as the pinnacle.

[AgKnight]

And no one even talk of qeynos aquaducts... It's one of my favorite low level dungeon...

[Ekco]

back then I do not think they had open beta tests which would explain a lot not having customer feedback.

they had a couple beta phases and Brad would hold like townhall meetings on a IRC server answering questions n shit. the logs still exist.

[Zwieback]

the logs confirming u a RMTer also still exist.

they had a couple beta phases and Brad would hold like townhall meetings on a IRC server answering questions n shit. the logs still exist.

[murrpau]

qeynos was what they developed as proof of concept for investors

once they got funded, they had to meet shipping deadlines, and you can see how the rest of the game (basically from then on) was rushed


That makes sense. Doesn't give it much argument of being the best-designed city though.

When they made Doom, they made the first level last. That's because by then they learned everything and got good at design and that's why it hit so differently from stuff that was out at the time (like compared to Wolfenstein).

I think they kind-of did the same with Qeynos. After going out and building some other stuff (SFG shows up in Alpha footage too) they came back and redid big chunks of Qeynos. http://everquest.allakhazam.com/gallery/alphabeta/alpha-07.jpg

[murrpau]

I always felt that the Qeynos area was rushed through and always seemed unfinished to me. You have Qeynos, and then QH which is just bare bones. Then you have Surefall which seems like it was supposed to be a main town but is more like an outpost.

Now that you mention it, I want to add on to that theory:

It was an alpha/beta area with just enough to create some immersion and scale with some variety in climates.

So maybe humans were from Qeynos, Elves from SFG,
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/gallery/alphabeta/alpha-13.jpg

then Dwarves/Ogres you could argue each comes either from the Qeynos Acqueducts or Everfrost.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/gallery/alphabeta/alpha-06.jpg

[BigPlays]

Qeynos in of itself was well designed. Lots of detail, the different factions and quests. For example the guard by the clock, one is good one is bad (there is some quest involved there too).

The problem starts when you leave. QH for example had that broken warrior sword quest, does not have much in it aside from BB, and Surefall which seems like it was supposed to be a starting city but was never finished. Then you have WK which is just a barren waste with a spattering of mobs and a couple of guard outposts. Just a huge waste of space. Same with NK...huge zone, nothing going on really, and again, huge waste of space. SK is one of the only zones you can actually level in up to around 40ish? And Paw at the time was a lv 15 zone (I am going with launch zones etc here, not the revamps).

My point being is if you look at FP, you can get to Lavastorm in like under 5 min and level from say 15-50 without ever leaving.

The game was surely rushed but I always wonder why they never bothered to do anything around Qeynos aside from BB and Perma. Plus add in the fact that your closest port is NK while in FP, you have WC/Nro/Nek and Lava.

[magnetaress]

Qeynos is way more chill than FP.

That said Oasis can be p chill when there aren't bards trying to powerlvl in the zone.

Bards are basically everquests #1 problem.

[magnetaress]

Give a player an inch and they take a mile.

[Ooloo]

I wonder if there are any original dev interviews where they go into what was designed when. I always felt like some of the zones in velious were put together from leftovers that weren't used in the original release. Velk's and siren's grotto both have the same kind of really basic blocky architecture and mismatched platform heights that don't quite line up and somewhat shoddy texture work. None of the super-sculpted pathways like you see in kunark zones, even though they didn't come out until after kunark.

Then again, velious was released really fast after kunark considering how much content kunark had, maybe it was rushed as well.

[BigPlays]

I wonder if the game was intended for bards to AoE kite entire zones. Would be nice to sit down the the original devs and get their thoughts on what people are doing.

Like kiting seemed to be something that was unintended in general because they nerfed the DoT damage to 66% while moving. Also I kind of wonder what their intentions were around camping items etc. Did they really think that sitting in one place for 12 hours or so was fun?

[BigPlays]

I wonder if there are any original dev interviews where they go into what was designed when. I always felt like some of the zones in velious were put together from leftovers that weren't used in the original release. Velk's and siren's grotto both have the same kind of really basic blocky architecture and mismatched platform heights that don't quite line up and somewhat shoddy texture work. None of the super-sculpted pathways like you see in kunark zones, even though they didn't come out until after kunark.

Then again, velious was released really fast after kunark considering how much content kunark had, maybe it was rushed as well.

My theory was back in those days, devs were pushed to get games out the door. That is why you had so many games that were just unfinished and why Blizzard was more polished because of their "When it is done" mantra.

Nowadays, with early access and crowd funding, devs can keep games in alpha/early access indefinitely because they still have $$ rolling in (see star citizen) and are under no pressure to release a game.

[Jimjam]

My point being is if you look at FP, you can get to Lavastorm in like under 5 min and level from say 15-50 without ever leaving.

But maybe the point of qeynos is not to have a single mega dungeon (the lavastorm area) to do 1-50.

Maybe Qeynos is about getting out there and exploring the whole world, ensuring human adventurers are pushing into all areas of Norrath?

Imo its a feature not a bug.

[BigPlays]

But maybe the point of qeynos is not to have a single mega dungeon (the lavastorm area) to do 1-50.

Maybe Qeynos is about getting out there and exploring the whole world, ensuring human adventurers are pushing into all areas of Norrath?

Imo its a feature not a bug.

Knowing what you know today, if you were to start a fresh toon, other than nostalgia or preference for say liking Erudites, why would you start say a HE bard in Qeynos instead of FP? Both have end game dungeons but Sol B is way more fleshed out than Perma. Maybe it is not a bug, but I think it was more of the devs didn't know what they didn't know.

Like they never thought a Bard would AOE kite an entire zone or people would kite with DOTs, so it ended up getting nerfed. They did also add the Hole later and revamped kerra. So looking back, I think they did recognize that the Qeynos area was unfinished and added the paw revamp and Hole.

[Raj]

Knowing what you know today, if you were to start a fresh toon, other than nostalgia or preference for say liking Erudites, why would you start say a HE bard in Qeynos instead of FP? Both have end game dungeons but Sol B is way more fleshed out than Perma. Maybe it is not a bug, but I think it was more of the devs didn't know what they didn't know.

Like they never thought a Bard would AOE kite an entire zone or people would kite with DOTs, so it ended up getting nerfed. They did also add the Hole later and revamped kerra. So looking back, I think they did recognize that the Qeynos area was unfinished and added the paw revamp and Hole.

I think many of us almost never start real toons - fresh or not - in FP tbh my friend! :cool:

The Qeynos area for a newbie is good for alot more reasons than just nostalgia...And when you have to venture out farther than Qeynos to level in much farther away areas, 1 long scenic trip to a new area then getting a bind there really isn't a big deal to most of us as far as I know.... :cool:

[Raj]

I think many of us almost never start real toons - fresh or not - in FP when we can start in Qeynos TBH my friend! I'm sure there are those with FP preference but a huge percentage of us likely prefer Qeynos. :cool:

The Qeynos area for a newbie is good for alot more reasons than just nostalgia...And when you have to venture out farther than Qeynos to level in much farther away areas, 1 long scenic trip to a new area then getting a bind there really isn't a big deal to most of us as far as I know.... :cool:

[Ekco]

I wonder if the game was intended for bards to AoE kite entire zones. Would be nice to sit down the the original devs and get their thoughts on what people are doing.

Like kiting seemed to be something that was unintended in general because they nerfed the DoT damage to 66% while moving. Also I kind of wonder what their intentions were around camping items etc. Did they really think that sitting in one place for 12 hours or so was fun?

it wasn't. there are interviews on youtube, they didn't think people would camp for items the way people did. i forget which dev interview it is but it's hilarious and depressing how he describes it. kiting, monk fd were all accidental features.

it's in this playlist somewhere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTWdpXvxneQ&list=PLRkATlHgVey7OAx8JA4J42NMGmlgnFv7W&ab_channel=aLovingRobot

[Jimjam]

Knowing what you know today, if you were to start a fresh toon, other than nostalgia or preference for say liking Erudites, why would you start say a HE bard in Qeynos instead of FP? Both have end game dungeons but Sol B is way more fleshed out than Perma. Maybe it is not a bug, but I think it was more of the devs didn't know what they didn't know.

Like they never thought a Bard would AOE kite an entire zone or people would kite with DOTs, so it ended up getting nerfed. They did also add the Hole later and revamped kerra. So looking back, I think they did recognize that the Qeynos area was unfinished and added the paw revamp and Hole.

Why on earth would level 50 content influence my decision on where to start a level 1 toon? I’m going to have been all over the world by 30 let alone 50 regardless of my start point.

I usually fresh start kunark for +20hp from jewellery and all the little quests.

[Jimjam]

*start qeynos not kunark… i wish!

Remember the classic bug where calabis displayed as a starting zone for barbarians?!

[Ennewi]

Qeynos in of itself was well designed. Lots of detail, the different factions and quests. For example the guard by the clock, one is good one is bad (there is some quest involved there too).

The problem starts when you leave.

Admittedly, the Karanas are generally thought of as Antonica's fly over states. But for those who prefer to experience zones at a slower pace, soloing or duoing, that side of the world is pretty relaxed.

QH for example had that broken warrior sword quest, does not have much in it aside from BB, and Surefall which seems like it was supposed to be a starting city but was never finished.

Quite a few names with named PHs and valuables that retained their value until the end of Kunark. Millers for soloing necromancers. Diseased bears/wolves mixed in with regular ones, plus the wandering druidic protectors that gank unsuspecting newbies. The illusion cards and guard Cheslin. NPCs that regularly path from WK to the North Qeynos zoneline. The undead ruins could've been built out more, maybe leading into a necromancer hideout (Pyzjn/Tovax), but the zone already has Blackburrow. Surefall could've had diseased bears in a separate area or adjacent zone accessed through the caves. It definitely seemed like they intended to do more with the the area back there.

Then you have WK which is just a barren waste with a spattering of mobs and a couple of guard outposts. Just a huge waste of space.

While it appears to be unnecessarily large, it's entirely possible this was done on purpose and meant for additional content at a later date. The landscape being spare seems 100% intentional, similar to Everfrost, as that's how plains are naturally. This ties in with night making it difficult for human races to see a few paces ahead of them; by day the horizon is even on all sides and they can see any dangers from a mile away, but by night that benefit is gone. And even so, there's a lot in the zone despite it being so spread out.

Same with NK...huge zone, nothing going on really, and again, huge waste of space.

SK is one of the only zones you can actually level in up to around 40ish? And Paw at the time was a lv 15 zone (I am going with launch zones etc here, not the revamps).

Honestly, it has to be the smallest of the Karanas. Certainly feels that way at least. Two different ports. Lots of willowisps and the associated lightstone quest at the gypsy camp which serves as a bind location. More hill giants. Series of nameds. Another bard for soloing necros. Guards that are also camped. Mats for fleeting quiver. Massive bridges and guard outposts that double as a camp. And swarm mother.

South Karana does feel like the one that the devs perfected. All of the different camps and mob types spread out just enough, with a chance for each of them to randomly encounter some wandering troll or pegasus...or enraged elephant. With either version of Splitpaw, the whole area still has a reason for players of different level ranges to be there.

My point being is if you look at FP, you can get to Lavastorm in like under 5 min and level from say 15-50 without ever leaving.

As great and convenient as this is, the world would feel samey if nearby/adjacent zones offered as much from coast to coast, continent to continent, and vice versa. How the zones all interconnect, it doesn't have a predictable theme park layout even with newbie yards in place. You can get lost more easily in those larger zones which is one of the first step towards being immersed.

Plus add in the fact that your closest port is NK while in FP, you have WC/Nro/Nek and Lava.

Again, I think it was to establish a sense of remoteness. That part of the world feels more ranger, druid, shaman, and bard friendly, a setting made to emphasize the benefits of sow/selos and track. If zones were all equally small, max skill in tracking wouldn't have as much value and neither would runspeed.

[Ooloo]

Whether it was intentional or not, the first run from qeynos to freeport as a 15 year old was so damn epic. Sometimes I wonder if it was as cool for people who started in FP and ran it reverse to Qeynos.

That's another cool aspect of early EQ- we're all playing the same game, but depending on where you started it was a totally different world for each person. I don't think I even made the trip accross the ocean to faydwer until I was like lvl 30, but for other people that was their first experience of the game.

[Jimjam]

Whether it was intentional or not, the first run from qeynos to freeport as a 15 year old was so damn epic. Sometimes I wonder if it was as cool for people who started in FP and ran it reverse to Qeynos.

That's another cool aspect of early EQ- we're all playing the same game, but depending on where you started it was a totally different world for each person. I don't think I even made the trip accross the ocean to faydwer until I was like lvl 30, but for other people that was their first experience of the game.

repped

[Kirdan]

People who say that there's nothing going on in the Karanas are just telling us that they never go there. Each Karana zone is full of stuff to do at various level ranges. Yes they are large zones, and that is one of EQ's selling points. The game was even marketed using the fact that it took literal days to walk across the world.

[branamil]

https://i.imgur.com/39mKFnf.png

[Rygar]

it wasn't. there are interviews on youtube, they didn't think people would camp for items the way people did. i forget which dev interview it is but it's hilarious and depressing how he describes it. kiting, monk fd were all accidental features.

it's in this playlist somewhere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTWdpXvxneQ&list=PLRkATlHgVey7OAx8JA4J42NMGmlgnFv7W&ab_channel=aLovingRobot

Correct, believe it was Brad saying that camping for anything (exp or rare items) really surprised folks. They didn't even think pulling would be a thing.

They thought people would crawl a dungeon together and move fluidly throughout it.

People got crazy, like full group of 6 sitting at an avian tower in Lake Rathe waiting for a 3-spawn to pop

[SantagarBrax]

Qeynos just didn't have that great zone that FP has: Oasis

Sure, Blackburrow is fun when it was brand new but players were going there at lvl 5-6 and it wore out its welcome by lvl 12 or 13. It was time to go explore the world. I don't remember anyone making the journey from FP to Qeynos as there was nothing out there to bring the people over. Everfrost could have been that zone, but it wasn't.

When I hit level 13 on my ranger, some friends said let's make the trip and it was a wild one. We made it through the karanas, highpass (mainly due to the amount of folks training through and dying), kithicor, all the way to west commons where I died by the only HG hugging the wall around befallen. I had to make that trip a second time, naked.

It was glorious and I'll never forget that first run

[cd288]

Knowing what you know today, if you were to start a fresh toon, other than nostalgia or preference for say liking Erudites, why would you start say a HE bard in Qeynos instead of FP? Both have end game dungeons but Sol B is way more fleshed out than Perma. Maybe it is not a bug, but I think it was more of the devs didn't know what they didn't know.

Like they never thought a Bard would AOE kite an entire zone or people would kite with DOTs, so it ended up getting nerfed. They did also add the Hole later and revamped kerra. So looking back, I think they did recognize that the Qeynos area was unfinished and added the paw revamp and Hole.

This makes absolutely no sense

[magnetaress]

Yall complain about oasis.


Butt south karana- lake rathe and rathe mnts is the bomb

[Ooloo]

https://i.imgur.com/39mKFnf.png

Lmao

I disagree with the message because halas and everfrost and blackburrow own... but it was still hilarious.

[Jimjam]

Yall complain about oasis.


Butt south karana- lake rathe and rathe mnts is the bomb

agreed - the qeynos starter area is Qhills thru to EK/HHK to the east and rathe mountains to the south.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I don't think they original layout folks anticipated how popular dark elves were going to be maybe. They might have expected the opposite?

You get a Freeport - Qeynos axis that makes some sense only if you eliminate the location of their home city. Neriak unbalances the map and dark elves are really popular. Solution: Neriak off of Lake Rathetear.

Give dark elves a water beathing ability that allows them to hunt fish a lot. They cn hold their breath until they are blue in the face.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

keep nek forest where it is, of course. It's a nice pairing with kithicor.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

DE get a Lake Rathetear-only waterbreathing skill:
https://i.imgur.com/n2Oc4Sa.jpg

[Ennewi]

I don't think they original layout folks anticipated how popular dark elves were going to be maybe. They might have expected the opposite?

You get a Freeport - Qeynos axis that makes some sense only if you eliminate the location of their home city. Neriak unbalances the map and dark elves are really popular. Solution: Neriak off of Lake Rathetear.

Give dark elves a water beathing ability that allows them to hunt fish a lot. They cn hold their breath until they are blue in the face.

Neriak -> Neriad

https://i.imgur.com/uvq40HF.png

[Ennewi]

In terms of asthetics, Neriak easily could've been placed underneath the Arena with a zone on the other side of the subterranean city for low levels to xp in, otherwise Lake Rathetear would've needed to lower level mobs.

[magnetaress]

DE get a Lake Rathetear-only waterbreathing skill:
https://i.imgur.com/n2Oc4Sa.jpg

Fuck yes.

You get it. #1 poster on forums left Sadre pras.

[cd288]

In terms of asthetics, Neriak easily could've been placed underneath the Arena with a zone on the other side of the subterranean city for low levels to xp in, otherwise Lake Rathetear would've needed to lower level mobs.

Yeah but it kind of also works aesthetically that it's next to Nektulos forest. Like their underground city is supposed to be built deep in a dark isolated forest where no one else really is.

[Ennewi]

Yeah but it kind of also works aesthetically that it's next to Nektulos forest. Like their underground city is supposed to be built deep in a dark isolated forest where no one else really is.

Yep, and it makes sense that they'd be there on the outskirts of what is now a desert.

https://www.giantbomb.com/takish-hiz/3035-5197/

Centuries ago, the Elves lived in a lush forest that existed where what is now the Desert of Ro. The sun god, Solusek Ro, laid waste to the forest by burning it to the ground, which forced the Elves to flee to Faydwer, where they established Felwithe and Kelethin in the Faydark. Remnants of their lost civilization peak out above the sands to this day, but the Wayfarers have discovered a path to a portion of the Elves' capital city of Takish-Hiz that remains somewhat in tact.

https://loreofnorrath.wordpress.com/category/takishhiz/

Beyond the grand white bridge and the waterway that overlooks the temple of Tunare lies the quiet northern region of the fair KoadaÂ’Dal city of Felwithe. Here FelwitheÂ’s magicians, enchanters, and wizards reside, endlessly studying the countless ancient tomes that survived the horrible devastations of their former homeland of TakishÂ’Hiz now ruined at the bottom of a desert grave.

In ancient days, the city of Takish Hiz nestled in the heart of the Elddar Forest. The elves who inhabited this lush forest are the ancestors of todayÂ’s high and wood elves. Adventurers can see the influences of these ancestors throughout the high elf and wood elf cities even now.

The Fall of Takish-Hiz
In time, fate dealt the TeirÂ’Dal a good hand, for Solusek Ro raised the Serpent Mountains near the elven homeland of the Elddar Forest. The magical city of Takish-Hiz, which many believed impregnable, was half ruined by tremendous earthquakes resulting from massive shifts in the landscape. The moisture cut off by the Serpent Mountains quickly (at least quickly in the eyes of elves and gods) turned the Elddar into a desert.

But if the dark elves were based in The Arena/Lake Rathetear, that would have placed them much closer to the trolls and ogres, giving the evil races more coverage of the southern portion of the map, with the added benefit of separating good/evil player characters in PvP scenarios. Plus, it would have added a city to accompany the Arena's bind location, making the one in NK unnecessary.

[Kohedron]

the glory of rodcet nife awaits!

[Lifebar]

I feel like I remember hearing Qeynos was built very early on when listening to aLovingRobot's interview series with original EQ developers. I can't remember who it was and there's too many hours of interviews to skim. Linking below for interest.

https://www.youtube.com/@alovingrobot406/videos

[Ennewi]

Apparently Field of Bone was the first zone in Kunark beta.

https://web.archive.org/web/20001206040600/http://www.eqtrade.com/cgi/news.pl?id=8

2) Currently only 1 zone has been created: "The Field of Bone", a scorched-earth type of land with Iksar ruins, a gigantic walled temple and a large tower, among other "to-be-added" landmarks and features.

...

4 new monsters have been created so far: The Cockatrice, Leech, Mosquito (giant) and Giant Scorpion (also saw a huge scorp which may serve as the basis for some kind of unique monster, ala Queen Klicnik).

https://web.archive.org/web/20001022121832/http://members.home.net/casinobound/beta.html

https://i.imgur.com/tBbHq0O.jpg

[cd288]

Yep, and it makes sense that they'd be there on the outskirts of what is now a desert.

https://www.giantbomb.com/takish-hiz/3035-5197/



https://loreofnorrath.wordpress.com/category/takishhiz/






But if the dark elves were based in The Arena/Lake Rathetear, that would have placed them much closer to the trolls and ogres, giving the evil races more coverage of the southern portion of the map, with the added benefit of separating good/evil player characters in PvP scenarios. Plus, it would have added a city to accompany the Arena's bind location, making the one in NK unnecessary.

That's all pretty interesting lore thank you. Idk why I had no idea the desert of Ro used to be a forest and that the ruins there are elvish. Cool stuff.

[cd288]

I feel like I remember hearing Qeynos was built very early on when listening to aLovingRobot's interview series with original EQ developers. I can't remember who it was and there's too many hours of interviews to skim. Linking below for interest.

https://www.youtube.com/@alovingrobot406/videos

Yes it was. I believe the Qeynos area is quite literally the first section of the game that was ever designed. It shows not only in the name of the city but in the /who names for Qeynos, QH, Surefall, etc. It's why those zone names in /who are so odd compared to all the others in the game.

[BigPlays]

Did surefall always have ranger and Druid guilds? Also, could you start a new char in surefall? I do not remember..I just remember that QRG was Qeynos ranger guild

[Ekco]

Did surefall always have ranger and Druid guilds? Also, could you start a new char in surefall? I do not remember..I just remember that QRG was Qeynos ranger guild

yeah, first char i ever made in 99' was a ranger and i couldn't see shit in the tunnel so i'd end up zoning out and re-zoning into surefall and it would take like 5 minutes each load so i deleted him and made a wood elf next and promptly fell out a tree.

true story.

[BigPlays]

yeah, first char i ever made in 99' was a ranger and i couldn't see shit in the tunnel so i'd end up zoning out and re-zoning into surefall and it would take like 5 minutes each load so i deleted him and made a wood elf next and promptly fell out a tree.

true story.

I made a de necro and could not get out of neriak. So I rolled a human warrior for some reason. Ended up with a wood elf Druid and never looked back

[Jimjam]

I made a de necro and could not get out of neriak. So I rolled a human warrior for some reason. Ended up with a wood elf Druid and never looked back

Even with the fantastically detailed maps in the manual I had the same experience with a dark elf. I think there may have been a labelling issue in the maps that caused a confusion - maybe the zone names in game not quite aligning with how they were portrayed in game? Idk.

Either way, I phoned a more experienced friend to ask how to get out of neriak quickly. He told me to target a guard and press ‘a’…

Well it worked… on live did you respawn with a new dagger* if you died on a necro before level 4?

[BigPlays]

I literally knew nothing about the game. I remember reading pc magazine and learning about the classes. Sucks because if I was a de necro I would have steamrolled late content with the fs dagger bug. Druid was fun and I was able to do lots of content but not to the ability of the old school necro.

[cd288]

Not fully knowing the stat meta for each class was fun too. I had points in Charisma on my warrior because it seemed like being able to buy and sell for better prices would be important.

[BigPlays]

Not fully knowing the stat meta for each class was fun too. I had points in Charisma on my warrior because it seemed like being able to buy and sell for better prices would be important.

Unless you rolled a human warrior like me lol. Thankfully I only got him to 25 before I rolled a druid

[cd288]

Unless you rolled a human warrior like me lol. Thankfully I only got him to 25 before I rolled a druid

I did actually lol

[BigPlays]

I did actually lol

I remember getting two PGTs before they made them lore too...good times!

[Jimjam]

I love pgt! Double pgt must have been the business on a warrior at 20 pre-expac!!

[Ooloo]

I distinctly remember mino axes being all the rage during super early vanilla. They are such trash lol. Not even magic.

Also, I bought a crafted bracer for 60 dollars on ebay, using money I made from selling my ultima online account, also on ebay. Before ebay banned those kinds of auctions it was like a money launderer's dream

[Duik]

Had a newbie woody druid with some gifted stuff, rawhide, fs weapon etc. Someone at newb lift said hey dude, want some free stuff? Type /d for deal.
Ha, what a newb. Guards didnt hellllp.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I distinctly remember mino axes being all the rage during super early vanilla. They are such trash lol. Not even magic.

Also, I bought a crafted bracer for 60 dollars on ebay, using money I made from selling my ultima online account, also on ebay. Before ebay banned those kinds of auctions it was like a money launderer's dream

I think part of that might have been fashion. People loved having unique looking items on live, I would say more-so than P99. Someone offered to trade me a CoF for a Wurmslayer once, but I got disconnected and never got to finish the trade lol.

[BigPlays]

I had a bard with two EBW's. Yaks were all the rage but the EBW looked cool.

[Knuckle]

I always felt that the Qeynos area was rushed through and always seemed unfinished to me. You have Qeynos, and then QH which is just bare bones. Then you have Surefall which seems like it was supposed to be a main town but is more like an outpost.

Blackburrow seems like a good newbie dungeon but then the whole area just falls off. NK/WK are huge areas which just a spattering of mobs and nothing very valuable dropping. After BB, it looks like Paw (old paw) was the next logical place but was never that much higher than BB.

Which brings us to Freeport which seems very polished. Natural progression and tons of dungeons to choose from. You can do Befallen then his Oasis, Upper Guk, Lower Guk and literally get to 50 easy. Or you can do Befallen, Najena, Sol A and Sol B.

So am I wrong in thinking the devs started out in Qeynos, then just stopped caring about that area?

you answered your own question, the earliest zones are the least polished. As they learned from their mistakes their zone building improved.

[grims]

Qeynos quests and aesthetic are awesome but the roaming wizards on faction with ice comet are LOL WTF

[cd288]

you answered your own question, the earliest zones are the least polished. As they learned from their mistakes their zone building improved.

That's odd. The Qeynos area is generally considered to be the best starting area in terms of polish because it has actually good starter quests that help you level and a good natural progression in terms of accompanying turn in quests as you level up through the mid teens. It also has well polished lore.

[Tormmac]

That's odd. The Qeynos area is generally considered to be the best starting area in terms of polish because it has actually good starter quests that help you level and a good natural progression in terms of accompanying turn in quests as you level up through the mid teens. It also has well polished lore.

yeah it actually has quests they make you feel emotions and send you to level appropriate dungeons, its like the only newbie city done correctly

[Tushy_master]

Blackburrow seems like a good newbie dungeon but then the whole area just falls off. NK/WK are huge areas which just a spattering of mobs and nothing very valuable dropping. After BB, it looks like Paw (old paw) was the next logical place but was never that much higher than BB.

They are called the *plains* of Karana so I think they were meant to have a lot of large swaths of empty area. Kind of like the great plains of Atonica.

I kind of like this contrast with the Freeport side which feels a bit claustrophobic the way Neriak, another major starting city, is just a couple zones away.

[cd288]

They are called the *plains* of Karana so I think they were meant to have a lot of large swaths of empty area. Kind of like the great plains of Atonica.

I kind of like this contrast with the Freeport side which feels a bit claustrophobic the way Neriak, another major starting city, is just a couple zones away.

His other comment about nothing dropping also isn't entirely correct. The Karana bandits are one of the top early money-making quests you can do...there's a reason they are so camped on fresh servers. Additionally, in NK you have the Gypsy Medallion and Giant's Reminder String, which are close to if not BIS items in the pre-Kunark era (isn't there also a Werewolf that drops some good loot?), plus the GLS turn ins which can net very solid plat and EXP for the level of the quest.

WK in general has a bunch of good camps, maybe not necessarily with loot but for EXP (and that's not even including the Bandits I mentioned). Obviously, once Kunark and Velious come out people don't really level there as much anymore, but they were well designed zones for the time period.

[Toxigen]

why is this rnf

[Ennewi]

His other comment about nothing dropping also isn't entirely correct. The Karana bandits are one of the top early money-making quests you can do...there's a reason they are so camped on fresh servers. Additionally, in NK you have the Gypsy Medallion and Giant's Reminder String, which are close to if not BIS items in the pre-Kunark era (isn't there also a Werewolf that drops some good loot?), plus the GLS turn ins which can net very solid plat and EXP for the level of the quest.

Fishbone earring. Glowing black stone. Peggy cloak. Runed oak bow. Invis rings.

Kunark and Velious loot bumped these down the list in terms of demand, but just looking at the classic continents, the zones immediately surrounding the two cities, Qeynos offers more valuable drops.

Rabid pelts are another reliable source of xp/coin, on top of bandit sashes and lightstones, and there are consistently more willowisps in NK and QHills than EC and WC, leaving Erud's Xing out of the conversation which also has thin boned wands and resist earrings.

[cd288]

Fishbone earring. Glowing black stone. Peggy cloak. Runed oak bow. Invis rings.

Kunark and Velious loot bumped these down the list in terms of demand, but just looking at the classic continents, the zones immediately surrounding the two cities, Qeynos offers more valuable drops.

Rabid pelts are another reliable source of xp/coin, on top of bandit sashes and lightstones, and there are consistently more willowisps in NK and QHills than EC and WC, leaving Erud's Xing out of the conversation which also has thin boned wands and resist earrings.

I was speaking specifically to his comment on NK and WK but yes I agree with you in general

[Ennewi]

Not directly related to that point, but it is sort of odd that there is no North/South Commons or East/West Desert of Ro, though East Ro would just be Timorous Deep. The lack of each did keep the two coasts from feeling samey at least. Stranger still that there's no South Freeport, or East/West Qeynos.