Is the Raid Scene on Project 1999 Toxic?

[long.liam]

With the amount of guild breakups that happen on this server it leads me to wonder if perhaps something is inherently wrong with the raid scene. The list of guild diverges and descendants leads me to speculate why this happens so much. My speculation is that the raid scene is so high pressure and anxiety producing, that it inevitably leads to toxic, overbearing guild leaders. Every guild that has been created may have started with good intentions, but it inevitably breaks down and becomes toxic over time. This toxicity coming from guild leadership leads to a guild breaking up and the members breaking off to form their own guild that will "be better", "more pleasant", "faster" etc. but than over time these new leaders become toxic as well, continuing the cycle of toxicity. What do you think? Is the raid scene toxic? Will the cycle ever end? Is there any way that the raid scene could be fixed?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

With the amount of relationship breakups that happen in this high school it leads me to wonder if perhaps something is inherently wrong with the high school relationship scene. The list of relationship diverges and descendants leads me to speculate why this happens so much. My speculation is that the coupling scene is so high pressure and anxiety producing, that it inevitably leads to toxic, overbearing communication breakdowns. Every relationship that has been created may have started with good intentions, but it inevitably breaks down and becomes toxic over time. This toxicity coming from people in relationships leads to a relationship breaking up and the members breaking off to form a new relationship that will "be better", "more pleasant", "faster" etc. but than over time these new couples become toxic as well, continuing the cycle of toxicity. What do you think? Is the relationship scene toxic? Will the cycle ever end? Is there any way that the relationship scene could be fixed?

You are overthinking this. Or listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqF3J8DpEb4&t=2s

Hells yeah! Better than a celestial heal!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqF3J8DpEb4&t=2s

We didn't start the fire.

[Patrece]

About 5 people in any given population are the biggest problem

Just look at some of the lying and clowns in the UN

[Diziet]

Yes.

[Tnair]

Unfortunately the most motivated people in a competitive scene, long term, skews towards people who never feel satisfied. 25 years of wiki knowledge for 3 years of content does indeed make things top-heavy and bottlenecked as people stop exploring and follow the known path to Desired Loots.

On blue it's not socially bad right now from my limited experience. Mostly alliances follow rules and are good sports about another guild picking up a target after a wipe, congrats and sometimes resses and ports get shared.

Where it is unavoidably toxic is physically, because there's so much knowledge that every desirable raid target is killed like minutes after they spawn. If you aren't excited about getting up at 2am because a video game needs you then just pre-emptively make your peace with never getting a chance at loot that was honestly designed to be rare and know that your enjoyment of the game will not be contingent on loot completionism

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I'm not convinced it's about loot. People who don't do this think, wow, they get all the loot.

I am not sure what the people who actually do this, and who get the loot, are thinking. I am not sure they know. Also, down time on base you gotta fill those hours somehow. A merchant marine used to be a constant, until his ship would enter into the ocean. Which meant he would suddenly blip out, 5 days later, "Hey guys, can you get my corpse? I'm back in port."

It can be fun, you just have to have some skillset for managing some very stressed out events. Everyone is different.

Most guilds do take "stress breaks." That's another post.

[Naethyn]

Riot broke the cycle.

[Ooloo]

I'm still not sure what the term "toxic" is supposed to mean. People often cite Teal as being this magical "non-toxic" version of green, but I'm skeptical of that. It's just the nature of the game that the most competitive and cut throat people rise to the top.

Usually raid guilds end one of two ways: Core classes get burnt out and stop playing, so the guild is absorbed into some other guild, or one of the egomaniacs running it doesn't like something and decides to go start a different guild to fuck you dad the old guild.

It's all quite dramatic and fun and interesting, I don't see any of it as toxic. It's much more interesting than playing any modern theme park mmo.

[Jimjam]

Teal has a unique system in which they removed any and all toxic players. Confirmed complete detoxification.

[loramin]

Yes it's toxic, and that's by design. The staff wants competition (they literally make up entirely unclassic things, like races, to enable competition). Competition breeds toxicity.

If we had rotations or instances or various other systems, there would be a lot less toxicity.

People often cite Teal as being this magical "non-toxic" version of green

Teal wasn't "non-toxic", but it was less toxic, precisely because of what I said above.

All the people that wanted to compete by being in the top guild (Seal Team), or who wanted to compete to earn a server first, stayed on Green. As a result, there were less "competitors" on Teal, leaving a much higher ratio of people who just wanted to play a PvE game (and thus a lot less toxicity).

[Ooloo]

Yes it's toxic, and that's by design. The staff wants competition (they literally make up entirely unclassic things, like races, to enable competition). Competition breeds toxicity.

If we had rotations or instances or various other systems, there would be a lot less toxicity.

Teal wasn't "non-toxic", but it was less toxic, precisely because of what I said above.

All the people that wanted to compete by being in the top guild (Seal Team), or who wanted to compete to earn a server first, stayed on Green. As a result, there were less "competitors" on Teal, leaving a much higher ratio of people who just wanted to play a PvE game (and thus a lot less toxicity).

Yeah your accounting of history is all right here, except you still didn't define what toxicity is actually supposed to mean. Competition among players? "Toxic" seems to imply that there's some way the game could be non-toxic, but it just can't. To me, toxic in everquest would mean highly anti-social behavior where you're just a total dickhead all the time to other players for no reason at all, which imo is quite rare here and I've been playing p99 since 2009.

Teal was kind of a fringe outlier because it only existed for a few months, entirely during vanilla. If Teal had been left up as a separate server, it inevitably would have stratified into the same exact thing any other server does.

*Shrug* I guess if toxicity means "players competing in a non-instanced world for a finite number of targets" I enjoy toxic servers.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

....

If we had rotations or instances or various other systems, there would be a lot less toxicity.

The finger of Allah writes:

Break raid targets into tiers first, then impose a "scalp limit" for each guild in each tier, based simply upon recognizing, not everyone wants to be hardcore and so each guild can select which tier is their primary scalp limit and which is their secondary.

If a guild takes more from a tier during a one (1) week period that it's limit, it is automatically "kicked" to the opposite category guild tier level limit cap selector.

This is the way. It creates two lanes as it were, so that hardcore guilds and casual guilds can both raid, and somewhat be segregated from each other.

[loramin]

Yeah your accounting of history is all right here, except you still didn't define what toxicity is actually supposed to mean. Competition among players?

I'd loosely define it as "players acting like losers to win".

"Toxic" seems to imply that there's some way the game could be non-toxic, but it just can't.

I sort of agree. Look, actual PvP games can avoid toxicity by design: you don't see WoW players being toxic over battlegrounds, right?

But EQ wasn't designed to be a "race to the mob" PvP game: it was meant to be a "race to level up (as a player/guild)" PvE game. I think at least a good portion of the toxicity here comes from the inherent limits of trying to add a new meta-game to an underlying game that wasn't built for it.

[Arvan]

[Sun Jan 31 19:48:01 2016] Detoxx says out of character, 'u guys are so mad, ur denying everyone pixels for one last power play of a failed guild'
[Sun Jan 31 19:59:18 2016] Detoxx says out of character, 'cant wait to get my essence earring!'
[Sun Jan 31 20:44:20 2016] Detoxx says out of character, 'CONCEDE SLEEPER NOW'

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Two lanes.

Two tiers of raid targets, two tiers of guilds

Primary/secondary scalp limit, adjustable by expansion.

Every month guild decides to be tier 1, tier 2, or, if can't kill anything, no tier.

Scalp minimum or guild is excluded from rotation and is outlawd, and if you go outlawd, lawd have mercy. You can kill whatever you want but you are UNFORGIVEN and no GM's will ever help you till you get your mind right.
https://i.imgur.com/0dtK7gn.jpg

[Lifebar]

I think at least a good portion of the toxicity here comes from the inherent limits of trying to add a new meta-game to an underlying game that wasn't built for it.

[Bisonzabi]

You have hundreds of people bunched up in raid content for 7+ years that was never officially meant to be endgame for more than 1 year until the next expansion. Of course people are going to be agitated in the raid scene.

[pink grapefruit]

Tempest and Perdition whine about the other constantly and it honestly becomes quite sad. Competition doesn't necessarily bring about negativity, but a lot of the time it seems to.

I just think it's cool that we can be elves and do elf things!

[aussenseiter]

Yes it's toxic, and that's by design. The staff wants competition (they literally make up entirely unclassic things, like races, to enable competition). Competition breeds toxicity.

If we had rotations or instances or various other systems, there would be a lot less toxicity.



Teal wasn't "non-toxic", but it was less toxic, precisely because of what I said above.

All the people that wanted to compete by being in the top guild (Seal Team), or who wanted to compete to earn a server first, stayed on Green. As a result, there were less "competitors" on Teal, leaving a much higher ratio of people who just wanted to play a PvE game (and thus a lot less toxicity).

Classic competition is trains and ogur walls?

[OuterChimp]

Teal has a unique system in which they removed any and all toxic players. Confirmed complete detoxification.

Toxic players are not welcome on Teal, thus why you don't ever see any Teal-based toxicity threads.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Ogre walls are classic.


And in case you haven't noticed, we don't tolerate fatty-shaming. This new p99 that Mitch and Murray got lined up, it's an ace!

[Tunabros]

nah its the least toxic raiding environment in any MMO ever

real talk

[loramin]

Classic competition is trains and ogur walls?

Classic competition was recruiting a big enough team, doing encounters like the planes over and over until your team had enough gear, and then trying to kill really hard mobs the most with that team.

The guilds that "won" in classic didn't win because of trains or ogre walls ... they won because they played the PvE game the best (as a team).

[Naethyn]

https://imgur.com/mLASxNl.jpg

Competition is thriving on p99. Drafts have also increased the number of competitive raid entities. Quake meta will be remembered as the most competitive scene so far p99.

Quakes are competition - and its fun. Windows are not.

[Smoofers]

Why am I not surprised the guy who rage quit his guild over not getting a SoD is the one pushing for welfare mobs?

[Arvan]

Why am I not surprised the guy who rage quit his guild over not getting a SoD is the one pushing for welfare mobs?

I heard get off my lawn cried asking for welfare mobs for months!

[aussenseiter]

Classic competition was recruiting a big enough team, doing encounters like the planes over and over until your team had enough gear, and then trying to kill really hard mobs the most with that team.

The guilds that "won" in classic didn't win because of trains or ogre walls ... they won because they played the PvE game the best (as a team).

I remember trains and ogur walls.

[Raj]

You have hundreds of people bunched up in raid content for 7+ years that was never officially meant to be endgame for more than 1 year until the next expansion. Of course people are going to be agitated in the raid scene.

We hope you enjoyed your visit to the Everquest museum... Oh... you are all moving in and turning this into your virtual homelessness camp..?? :cool:

Stay strong my friends! Help is available if you seek it... :cool:

[Valakut]

all the OG everquest players got chased off by the mentally ill bariatric basement dwellers

p99 somehow devolved into the southpark episode of world of warcraft

i think its more of a symptom of free accounts and free access to the services and service. when people have to work for something they generally take better care of it.

[Lifebar]

p99 somehow devolved into the southpark episode of world of warcraft.

[Tunabros]

Why am I not surprised the guy who rage quit his guild over not getting a SoD is the one pushing for welfare mobs?

kekw

[Twochain]

Yes it's toxic, and that's by design. The staff wants competition (they literally make up entirely unclassic things, like races, to enable competition). Competition breeds toxicity.

If we had rotations or instances or various other systems, there would be a lot less toxicity.



Teal wasn't "non-toxic", but it was less toxic, precisely because of what I said above.

All the people that wanted to compete by being in the top guild (Seal Team), or who wanted to compete to earn a server first, stayed on Green. As a result, there were less "competitors" on Teal, leaving a much higher ratio of people who just wanted to play a PvE game (and thus a lot less toxicity).

Project 1999 is 1/20th as toxic as Classic EverQuest was. You can trust any single player in the tunnel to xfer gear for you, Classic EQ, it was getting stolen 9 in 10 times.

Raid content was for the sweatiest of sweat lords on live. People didn't even complete VP on most servers until after Velious. They changed servers to join better guilds.

Instances are bad, and so are rotations. Project 1999 itself is almost 15 years old. The content is forever locked. Competition is needed to keep interest. There's only so many times a person can clear uncontested mobs before it gets too boring to log in.

What we need is racing with lockouts.

Also i love how you cry about unclassic racing and then immediately say instances like Loramin dude wtf

[Croco]

Project 1999 is 1/20th as toxic as Classic EverQuest was.

You're out of your fucking mind if you actually believe this. What I think you meant was 20x as toxic. You just got the fraction the wrong way around.

[Ripqozko]

You're out of your fucking mind if you actually believe this. What I think you meant was 20x as toxic. You just got the fraction the wrong way around.

This is p99 forums not p2002 forums, please use your own forums. hope that helps.

[Croco]

This is p99 forums not p2002 forums, please use your own forums. hope that helps.

Senpai noticed you this time, but I won't date you. Hope this helps.

[Ripqozko]

Senpai noticed you this time, but I won't date you. Hope this helps.

Consider more open raids taigam

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Why am I not surprised the guy who rage quit his guild over not getting a SoD is the one pushing for welfare mobs?

Because you've watched The Doomsday Machine many times.
https://i.imgur.com/tkqKcBp.jpg

[Ekco]

You're out of your fucking mind if you actually believe this. What I think you meant was 20x as toxic. You just got the fraction the wrong way around.

i remember Fennin Ro being pretty toxic, nothing ive seen on p99 compares to the shit talking and kill stealing i remember from highpass and highkeep

[Ekco]

or Lguk for that matter

[Jimjam]

Project 1999 is 1/20th as toxic as Classic EverQuest was. You can trust any single player in the tunnel to xfer gear for you, Classic EQ, it was getting stolen 9 in 10 times.

Raid content was for the sweatiest of sweat lords on live. People didn't even complete VP on most servers until after Velious. They changed servers to join better guilds.

Instances are bad, and so are rotations. Project 1999 itself is almost 15 years old. The content is forever locked. Competition is needed to keep interest. There's only so many times a person can clear uncontested mobs before it gets too boring to log in.

What we need is racing with lockouts.

Also i love how you cry about unclassic racing and then immediately say instances like Loramin dude wtf

There is toxicity, but it is in different places. You raise some really good points though, especially about trade scammers (or lack of).

Guilds are a lot more open too. I think exclusivity can be symptomatic of a kind of toxicity. But we don’t have that here. It seems pretty much any guild will accept any applicant. There isn’t the club culture from live. People are also much more willing to share knowledge here.

You’re post is really appreciated Twochain, it has helped break my groupthink on the toxic aspects of p99 and realise p99 is better than it tends to get credit for.

[Patrece]

Blue has half the population of green whenever I check

and most of it is afk people in tunnel, or people in tunnel with huge WTS lists of shit that never or barely sells

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

There is toxicity, but it is in different places. You raise some really good points though, especially about trade scammers (or lack of).

Guilds are a lot more open too. I think exclusivity can be symptomatic of a kind of toxicity. But we don’t have that here. It seems pretty much any guild will accept any applicant. There isn’t the club culture from live. People are also much more willing to share knowledge here.

You’re post is really appreciated Twochain, it has helped break my groupthink on the toxic aspects of p99 and realise p99 is better than it tends to get credit for.

Yes, good points by Twochain.

I would add, in original, server changing was hard and not even an option I think until later expansions. (Velious? It cost like 50 bucks I seem to remember)

So one could kill one's reputation. Which did happen. Usually would just find a Dragons of Asia guild to run with lol. No one knows nothing ~la.

p99 toxicity is unique because this is it. Everyone knows exactly what the zones are, can research the loot, can study the strats, can poopsock for days. Or do the quake shuffle.

I do not think it is inaccurate to say, p99 has a special toxicity, not nearly as many-dimensioned as in original (remember looting corpses you got consent for?), but tightly focused due to the mind-fucking stupidity of thinking "that's it! we're done!" mentality of this project.

Yeah, this project is done alright. Done to death. ATTICA SERVER 2024 No exp loss if rezzed. Upon death corpse spawns in random zone including planes. No GM's. No pvp.

Then the game becomes about being able to efficiently just level and be able to focus enough to do a sky clear maybe over a month long time span. Get those necros parked and those wizards porting.

Necro coffins are not baggable, and weigh 200 pounds. Better have an ogre coffin mule gtg.

ATTICA
https://i.imgur.com/tHvY5cG.jpg

[loramin]

Also i love how you cry about unclassic racing and then immediately say instances like Loramin dude wtf

Huh? I made exactly three posts in this thread, none of which even mention the word "instance".

[drackgon]

You're out of your fucking mind if you actually believe this. What I think you meant was 20x as toxic. You just got the fraction the wrong way around.

100000% agree. Though I played only ever on Erollisi Marr. I will say Kill stealing and loot stealing happened. But it was stupid rare, our server was all about name and shame. It wasn't long until that "Ibackstab" ninja looter was called out and pretty much the server knew he was scum. Congrats that player pretty much forced to reroll/ play euro times. Guilds pretty much worked together to do raid bosses. Shared info about awful players. And when it became an seriously issue where no sides could prove other correct/wrong /guildpvp. There was no racing, dragons pretty much stayed up until 5-11pm est when guilds worked together to down them. I know my memory isn't the best but I can only think of a handful of times shit got toxic and it was usually due to some RL drama that bled into game. IE guild leaders GF banging someone in guild. Camps were never as bad as on p99. You'd walk up and a group of 3-8 players would be camping say FBSS, and you'd just ask to join or get on list. Didn't matter guild tag anything. On p99 how many people try to avoid adding you to list so their guild members 30th guild bot rogue can get the camp instead?

Other memories was KC. Now I can say trains there were a bit toxic, but most had macros for running out. But its EQ and lag. trains happened. But generally afterwards those who wiped others helped others recover.. on p99 lmao....

PS no loramin this isn't see 3-8 players omg nerf solo enc...

[Toxigen]

Its not toxic until the lawyers get involved.

[loramin]

PS no loramin this isn't see 3-8 players omg nerf solo enc...

:confused:

[loramin]

Man, people sure like to read things I never wrote in this thread ...

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Man, people sure like to read things I never wrote in this thread ...

You brought up the 70's Celtics dude. You had to there.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I've raided in large guilds for a few years on P99. Raiding really isn't that bad on P99, and is generally enjoyable. There are just some people on these forums who will complain non-stop about raiding and make it seem like a huge problem. Often times these people don't even raid lol.

Most people in big guilds are nice and want to help players out. There's always some drama going on, but you don't have to get involved in it if you don't want to. I've never even visited the UN discord or any affiliated pages, and I can raid just fine. If the UN talks aren't your thing, just don't go there.

[Knuckle]

With the amount of guild breakups that happen on this server it leads me to wonder if perhaps something is inherently wrong with the raid scene. The list of guild diverges and descendants leads me to speculate why this happens so much. My speculation is that the raid scene is so high pressure and anxiety producing, that it inevitably leads to toxic, overbearing guild leaders. Every guild that has been created may have started with good intentions, but it inevitably breaks down and becomes toxic over time. This toxicity coming from guild leadership leads to a guild breaking up and the members breaking off to form their own guild that will "be better", "more pleasant", "faster" etc. but than over time these new leaders become toxic as well, continuing the cycle of toxicity. What do you think? Is the raid scene toxic? Will the cycle ever end? Is there any way that the raid scene could be fixed?

As one of the more casual raiders on green 99(not my guild, me personally). I have seen that the drama is actually pretty well handled between officers on the god damn UN discord or whatever. There's definitely a large chunk of players in each guild that play way too much and treat it like gang wars, but mostly mature adults. Unless we are "racing" to a target, I always offer ports and buffs to opposing raid guilds.

[Arvan]

Nice job OP you triggered a good 3 or 4 people here

[Ooloo]

lol I still don't really know what the UN even is, something about guilds deciding who is allowed to kill what? I think? I've been in multiple raid guilds on p99 and I just show up when there's an announced raid/objective and it's lots of fun. I really don't envy the guild leaders/officers and I kind of shudder to think what it's like to play that role. I guess they like it though.

[Ekco]

lol I still don't really know what the UN even is


a place that was way less fun after they disabled emotes.

[Croco]

a place that was way less fun after they disabled emotes.

idiots will weaponize whatever they can get their hands on, blame them

[radda]

p99 gang wars is fun

[Zekayy]

Yes

[Rager and Quitter]

idiots will weaponize whatever they can get their hands on, blame them

Imagine thinking emotes are weapons and words are violence lol.

[Croco]

Imagine thinking emotes are weapons and words are violence lol.

Imagine being the morons that weaponized them and got them removed.

[Kohedron]

What do you honestly expect when you have losers who have been grinding for the same items for the last THIRTY YEARS? You simple or somethin?

[arvidez]

What do you honestly expect when you have losers who have been grinding for the same items for the last THIRTY YEARS? You simple or somethin?

to cry toxic when they see a meanie?

[Thermite]

Nuke Red, turn it into a rotation enforced server for big name mobs, leave things like scout and other various quests as rolls play nice dont be a shit bag. Ie a server for people who love the game and want to play but cannot spend 10+ hours a day 7 days a week "competing".

Make green a I am the best at everything and demand to compete for everything cause I have 23 hours a day to burn socking crap. Ie I tie my junk around my knee cause it so big server. Purge green to blue every so often so big plays can "compete" for the same crap over and over.

Blue = graveyard or for players who don't wanna retart after all the time they dumped into their toon.


Just my 2 cents love the server staff is amazing to provide this to use .

[Pint]

Nuke Red, turn it into a rotation enforced server for big name mobs, leave things like scout and other various quests as rolls play nice dont be a shit bag. Ie a server for people who love the game and want to play but cannot spend 10+ hours a day 7 days a week "competing".

Make green a I am the best at everything and demand to compete for everything cause I have 23 hours a day to burn socking crap. Ie I tie my junk around my knee cause it so big server. Purge green to blue every so often so big plays can "compete" for the same crap over and over.

Blue = graveyard or for players who don't wanna retart after all the time they dumped into their toon.


Just my 2 cents love the server staff is amazing to provide this to use .

Allow boxing and rotate blue!

[Thermite]

Allow boxing and rotate blue!

Pint my guy! If we allowed boxing you could poopsock all mobs tanking with you pally big f to that lol

[Stroboo]

If by Toxic we mean selfish and jealous then Toxicity is alive and well on Blue. Recently started lightly raiding again and am wondering if i made the right decision...People always going to be jealous, especially if they fail and another succeeds easily.

[Ripqozko]

Allow boxing and rotate blue!

Blue is already rotated by drafts

[cd288]

With the amount of guild breakups that happen on this server it leads me to wonder if perhaps something is inherently wrong with the raid scene. The list of guild diverges and descendants leads me to speculate why this happens so much.

Kind of a mistatement here IMO. There aren't a ton of guild diverges/breakups. There are guild diverges/breakups primarily within a specific subset of people who go through the same cycle of "form guild together, some of those people get annoyed and form new guild, and eventually they all end up in a guild together again down the road before beginning the cycle anew".

[Zephys]

Imagine thinking emotes are weapons and words are violence lol.

[Knuckle]

Did you guys forget the great forum purge of thread tags? RIP

[cd288]

Project 1999 is 1/20th as toxic as Classic EverQuest was. You can trust any single player in the tunnel to xfer gear for you, Classic EQ, it was getting stolen 9 in 10 times.

Raid content was for the sweatiest of sweat lords on live. People didn't even complete VP on most servers until after Velious. They changed servers to join better guilds.

Instances are bad, and so are rotations. Project 1999 itself is almost 15 years old. The content is forever locked. Competition is needed to keep interest. There's only so many times a person can clear uncontested mobs before it gets too boring to log in.

What we need is racing with lockouts.

Also i love how you cry about unclassic racing and then immediately say instances like Loramin dude wtf

Instancing would be the death of end game P99. As you say, it would be too boring. The encounters themselves really aren't that interesting. Part of what keeps it interesting is knowing you have to execute everything perfectly and keep moving otherwise you're not getting to kill whatever targets.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Instancing would be the death of end game P99. As you say, it would be too boring. The encounters themselves really aren't that interesting. Part of what keeps it interesting is knowing you have to execute everything perfectly and keep moving otherwise you're not getting to kill whatever targets.

Agreed. You can see the pattern on TLP. People get their loot and stop playing. On P99 there are items that maybe drop 10 times a year, such as a Vulak Robe. There's always something you can chase after that will take a long time to get, and your guild needs to play well to get the chance at the loot in the first place.

[cd288]

Yup. Non-instancing basically acts as content gating to keep people chasing the carrot.

Personally, I don't mind non-instancing at all because I enjoy the social aspect of raiding more than really caring about the loot. So if on a quake we only kill 50% of the hoped for targets, that's fine. Loot on a Velious locked server is kind of pointless anyway...like yeah it's fun to strive for upgrades and it's cool to get that really good item, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if you get it tomorrow or 6 months from now. There's no new expansion you need to gear up for, no drops that you need to help you in something like PvP battlegrounds, etc. Technically, very few pieces of loot will really make such a massive difference in your character, so we really don't need instances so that people can constantly have chances at various drops.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yup. Non-instancing basically acts as content gating to keep people chasing the carrot.

Personally, I don't mind non-instancing at all because I enjoy the social aspect of raiding more than really caring about the loot. So if on a quake we only kill 50% of the hoped for targets, that's fine. Loot on a Velious locked server is kind of pointless anyway...like yeah it's fun to strive for upgrades and it's cool to get that really good item, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if you get it tomorrow or 6 months from now. There's no new expansion you need to gear up for, no drops that you need to help you in something like PvP battlegrounds, etc. Technically, very few pieces of loot will really make such a massive difference in your character, so we really don't need instances so that people can constantly have chances at various drops.

Agreed. BiS often isn't worth the DKP price. I got https://wiki.project1999.com/Vambraces_of_Discontent for 30 DKP instead of https://wiki.project1999.com/Onyx_Chain_Sleeves for 300 DKP, which would give me 40 HP and ~60 Mana over the Vambraces of Discontent. I'll gladly put that 270 DKP towards something else.

Some things have more than just stats, like Warrior Epic with it's hate proc. Those are what you should be aiming for when spending your big chunk of DKP.

[cd288]

Would rather have the extra one point of resists anyway, however small it is, over 40 HP and 60 Mana lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Would rather have the extra one point of resists anyway, however small it is, over 40 HP and 60 Mana lol

My thoughts exactly.

[Nostalgiabait]

Maybe I missed what everyone was finding to be "toxic", but my admittedly-limited experience is that P99 raiding is so low-key as to be almost casual vs. the holy-shit level drama that we used to see back in the day.

The original Ragefire spawn alone spawned more hostility than the combined total of what I see on p99. I haven't seen nor heard of a single fight over who gets what mob when.

All the hyper-competitive people who made up the early EQ raid scene, they just aren't on p99, because those kinds of people don't play 20-year-old games that aren't even supported by their original developers anymore.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Maybe I missed what everyone was finding to be "toxic", but my admittedly-limited experience is that P99 raiding is so low-key as to be almost casual vs. the holy-shit level drama that we used to see back in the day.

The original Ragefire spawn alone spawned more hostility than the combined total of what I see on p99. I haven't seen nor heard of a single fight over who gets what mob when.

All the hyper-competitive people who made up the early EQ raid scene, they just aren't on p99, because those kinds of people don't play 20-year-old games that aren't even supported by their original developers anymore.

Yeah most people who complain about the raid scene on P99 either don't raid, or are exaggerating.

I raided in a top guild for a while, and it was perfectly fine. There was some drama between specific players, but that is normal for any online game.

Detoxx send me an angry message once because I messed up the CH chain on AoW (which was true), and the apologized right after lol.

[Ciderpress]

"Toxic" in everquest just means a thing happened and I don't like it.

I wanted an item\camp, but somebody else got it instead. It was very toxic. If I had gotten it instead of them though, that would not be toxic, see. I'm not sure what version of everquest people remember where all the raid guilds totally got along and were full of fine upstanding gentlemen. It never existed.

The only example of behavior in an mmo where I think "toxic" is actually the right word for it was vanilla UO, where people would grief with the sole intent of driving you off the server for good. You just can't really do stuff like that in EQ.

[magnetaress]

Try red99 (hopefully 2 . O (SOON(TM)))

[Ennewi]

Reposting reply since it was deleted; no links to screenshots this time.

"Toxic" in everquest just means a thing happened and I don't like it.

Officially, for EQ, it's described as behavior that is deemed inappropriate which may or may not break the Rules of Conduct, a long list tacked on to the PnP.

I'm not sure what version of everquest people remember where all the raid guilds totally got along and were full of fine upstanding gentlemen. It never existed.

There are classic forum threads showing that multiple guilds openly agreed to rotate/alternate planar zones with only the occasional disagreement/misunderstanding which was quickly resolved by leadership. While not a PvE utopia, it did exist.

The only example of behavior in an mmo where I think "toxic" is actually the right word for it was vanilla UO, where people would grief with the sole intent of driving you off the server for good. You just can't really do stuff like that in EQ.

Phaezed-Reality, Greengrocer, Sinful Desires, Ryantwin, <Holocaust>. It would be entertaining to pick one and try to argue how they weren't toxic.

[cd288]

Yeah most people who complain about the raid scene on P99 either don't raid, or are exaggerating.

I raided in a top guild for a while, and it was perfectly fine. There was some drama between specific players, but that is normal for any online game.

Detoxx send me an angry message once because I messed up the CH chain on AoW (which was true), and the apologized right after lol.

It's really just select individuals within the scene who hate each other so they want to deprive the people they hate of pixels. The vast majority of a raid force ultimately doesn't really care if they miss this target or that one on a quake. These select people just can't stand the idea of the person they've shit talked online getting some level of success.

I compare it to US politics. In most cases, your candidate losing an election (i.e., not getting a raid mob) is not really going to affect your life that much. The reason people get so mad over it is that they equate it to all the other people they've argued with getting a "win" and they can't stand that idea. Same thing on P99 raiding.

[Toxigen]

Its not about pixels. Its about denying your opponents of pixels.