Bard vs Enchanter, which is the better dungeon crawler?

[VincentVolaju]

I always hear people say Enchanter is the #1 farmer in the game. However Ive been watching some Bard videos on YT and they seem pretty good, I dunno.

What yall think?

[branamil]

Enchanter and its not close

[wuanahto]

solo? enchanter
group? enchanter
huge gap as branamil said

[Ennewi]

solo? enchanter
group? enchanter
huge gap as branamil said

[Trexller]

lol enchanter

ppl playing bards are wasting their time and their tendons.

[DeliciousHalflings]

Enchanter is the strongest class in the game by a Siberian mile. Next would be Wizard or Shaman (in general) and the gap is so huge it's laughable. But the skill ceiling on an Enchanter is also the highest in the game.

Necromancer is the #2 dungeoneering class. In LGuk or other Undead zones later on, it's not a massive difference short of Mez + slow, but Necro has a much lower risk thanks to FD and other unique tools

[PatChapp]

Enchanter is the strongest class in the game by a Siberian mile. Next would be Wizard or Shaman (in general) and the gap is so huge it's laughable. But the skill ceiling on an Enchanter is also the highest in the game.

Necromancer is the #2 dungeoneering class. In LGuk or other Undead zones later on, it's not a massive difference short of Mez + slow, but Necro has a much lower risk thanks to FD and other unique tools

Necros have amazing 18second mez. Wizards are amongst the worst solo dungeon crawlers.

[Vivitron]

Bards are good enough at both farming and dungeon crawling to be fun, but not good enough to really challenge enchanters at either.

[sajbert]

How I'd rank em assuming 60 and good gear including all spells, epics and important clicky items.

Enchanter
Necro
Shaman
---- GAP ----
Paladin
Shadow Knight
Monk
Druid
Bard
--- GAP ----
Wizard
Cleric
Ranger
Magician

[Snaggles]

In dungeons root is extremely helpful. Enchs get rune and fetter plus other tricks.

I really like bards but they are pretty bad in dungeons unless you have a lot of room and skill. If that’s the case, that same player would still be better with a handful of different classes.

[busted]

Bards can do much more than people think. See the videos in this thread https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408521&page=2

That said, chanters are much more efficient/OP at crawling due to long-duration lulls & charms.

If bards could charm lvl 55 mobs https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408903&highlight=bard+charm things would be a little bit closer but still with enc on top

[Swish]

Enchanter unless you're sugz4 who can kite a HS wing on his bard with no issues.

[sajbert]

Enchanter unless you're sugz4 who can kite a HS wing on his bard with no issues.

Except, compared to what Sugz can do on an enchanter…

[Bockscar]

Enchanter, and it's not even close. While bards are nice to have, they don't approach the level of power that enchanters inhabit. Personally, I think bards are a little overrated if it isn't an outdoor zone, which most dungeons aren't. My ideal dungeon group setup does not include a bard. It most certainly includes an enchanter.

[Bockscar]

How I'd rank em assuming 60 and good gear including all spells, epics and important clicky items.

Enchanter
Necro
Shaman
---- GAP ----
Paladin
Shadow Knight
Monk
Druid
Bard
--- GAP ----
Wizard
Cleric
Ranger
Magician

You forgot rogue!

And you're insane for putting magician and wizard in the same bracket. Wizard is the very worst class in the game for dungeon crawling. Mages are decent, sometimes even great.

[sajbert]

You forgot rogue!

And you're insane for putting magician and wizard in the same bracket. Wizard is the very worst class in the game for dungeon crawling. Mages are decent, sometimes even great.

Wizard with Epic and VP robe and mannarobe beats mage in solo dungeon crawling.

I forgot war too. An uber geared war is likely in the mid tier group. Never seen an uber geared rogue try, I’d guess in the bottom group.

[Bockscar]

Wizard with Epic and VP robe and mannarobe beats mage in solo dungeon crawling.

There's a single-digit number of those on the server, and they don't generally join random groups for the sake of grinding. Don't be disingenuous. You know exactly what I meant, and you know that I'm right, but you just had to come up with some bullshit contrarian argument that doesn't really apply to the way people actually play the game.

[sajbert]

There's a single-digit number of those on the server, and they don't generally join random groups for the sake of grinding. Don't be disingenuous. You know exactly what I meant, and you know that I'm right, but you just had to come up with some bullshit contrarian argument that doesn't really apply to the way people actually play the game.

Look senor, I specifically stated that the list only looked at level 60’s with good gear and all the relevant clickies. Not to mention, getting an epic on a Wiz today is relatively easy and if you’re VP key the robe is usually cheap or even free. Manna robe isn’t strictly necessary but also not too expensive and can even be bought.

You were wrong, tranquilo, por favor.

[Vivitron]

There's a single-digit number of those on the server, and they don't generally join random groups for the sake of grinding. Don't be disingenuous. You know exactly what I meant, and you know that I'm right, but you just had to come up with some bullshit contrarian argument that doesn't really apply to the way people actually play the game.

As to whether this is how people people play the game, the OP mentioned that recent bard videos inspired his question. Several of the recent bard videos were bards with this tier of gear doing trophy solos. I've been having fun doing this on my bard too, my most recent success was an Atpaev solo (the easiest unfearable ww dragon).

[Moppelchen]

Bards aren't bad crawlers, but not fantastic either. Enchanters are definitely better.

On my bard I can, for example, get to some nameds in Sebilis and solo them (without relying on charm), such as Froglok Armorer and Necrosis Scarab. If you can get a named solo you can pretty much kill it (as long as it's 55 or below, MR not too high and mezzable). Just bard slow, melee it some, mez, regen up, rinse and repeat until the mob is dead. Only issue is that if you're gear is meh, then it will take you forever to kill a mob, which takes the fun out of it.

[astuce999]

Bards aren't bad crawlers, but not fantastic either. Enchanters are definitely better.

On my bard I can, for example, get to some nameds in Sebilis and solo them (without relying on charm), such as Froglok Armorer and Necrosis Scarab. If you can get a named solo you can pretty much kill it (as long as it's 55 or below, MR not too high and mezzable). Just bard slow, melee it some, mez, regen up, rinse and repeat until the mob is dead. Only issue is that if you're gear is meh, then it will take you forever to kill a mob, which takes the fun out of it.

This. Especially if there's a krup shaman healer in the other room - I'm looking at you Froggy.

Astuce

[Crede]

I always hear people say Enchanter is the #1 farmer in the game. However Ive been watching some Bard videos on YT and they seem pretty good, I dunno.

What yall think?

Bards are better dungeon crawlers until level 50. Their low level charm lasts 4 ticks & costs no mana and mezzes are really reliable including the aoe one. You have all the tools/regen needed to succeed with literal nonstop kills if you know what you're doing.

Unfortunately, this doesn't scale as well 51+ as the final charm sucks and drains your mana among other things so this is when enchanters start to pull away so really no competition at this point if you want to farm big nameds.

[Bockscar]

Bards also can't mez mobs above level 45 until the level 53 song. There's a really awkward window of time where it's a pretty unimpressive class. Basically mid-40s until 53, and those are the levels where you want to be getting into those Kunatk dungeons.

[Vivitron]

Bards also can't mez mobs above level 45 until the level 53 song. There's a really awkward window of time where it's a pretty unimpressive class. Basically mid-40s until 53, and those are the levels where you want to be getting into those Kunatk dungeons.

Luckily this wasn't classic and p99 changed it in 2013.

[Vivitron]

This. Especially if there's a krup shaman healer in the other room - I'm looking at you Froggy.

Astuce

(edit: Oh you said other room. I was thinking killing them as a ph can be a bit rough.) I'm planning to try some poison/disease cure pots to better weather shaman and necros in seb and hs.

[Toxigen]

bards are a raid class

hope this helps

[DeliciousHalflings]

Necros have amazing 18second mez. Wizards are amongst the worst solo dungeon crawlers.

I meant overall in the first paragraph.