What happened to Bards?

[Homesteaded]

Did I miss something along the way where we now accept that Bards play two to three songs in camp. Rarely mez, never pull and never attack? I've witnessed the level of Bard play on these servers plummet.

Back in my day Bards were active, pulling, mezzing, charming etc. Using their kit. Now they are like bots. Why have we accepted this level of play to become the norm? Old age of the player base making it hard to play Bards in an active way? What gives Bards?

[Toxigen]

any bard that melees is a shitter...unless they have epic

hope this helps

[Homesteaded]

any bard that melees is a shitter...unless they have epic

hope this helps

Wrong. Next.

[Cen]

Are you sure you are remembering what is allowed correctly? What exactly are you wanting them to do? Here's a few scenario's

A bard is playing 3 songs with an instrument, that's pretty good, but they wont be able to melee then besides throw fist attacks.

A bard can melee and dual wield after 20 but not double attack. Their melee skills are learned extremely late for all of them, and they are generally so poor that an instrument powered Chords of Diss from level 2 outdamages the offset of non instrument melee.

Here's one thing very few people don't know, a three chanting bard with good instrument is on the higher side of average possible DPS among all classes. They are very similar to a melee ranger. A bard charming + 2 chanting two mobs does incredible damage. 3 chanting I think is 75 DPS? It's a pretty nice amount for a hybrid with tons of tools.

All of this ive said is to compound the fact that the bards epic is likely the most powerful and transformative epic in the game, and some people don't understand how serious that is. Getting a high instrument bonus, and the only singing bonus, and opening up a full melee potential is taking the two halves of the class, combining them, and improving them.

If your bard uses its melee weapons without a instrument bonus at lower levels, that can be fine too but they need to select very specific songs to get the most out of that, namely singing only songs. Most other songs become insanely weak when you don't have the instrument. Big examples being Hymn of Resto and Chords of Diss.

At level 6, having a bard twisting just those two songs will far out damage the offset of picking up their single melee weapon.

Really, a lot of the time instruments straight up double songs effects as long as you have the correct type, and don't use the percent gains.

I don't usually use bad language on the forum too often, but I think I once read someone in the not too distant past saying "any bard that melee's is a shitter, unless they have their epic" and I think that's actually a pretty accurate statement.

[Cen]

Sometimes you have to consider all the possibilities of the toolkit and what needs to be sacrificed though.

For example, Necromancers are an AMAZING group class. Their kit to help a group is actually quite powerful. They actually give mana and even heal really well, and a lot of folks will say "anything a necro can do would be better served by a second cleric" and most people who say that are comparing the necro directly to the cleric spells, and completely forgetting there is a pet there beating down the mobs the group are fighting while all this support is going on :p and that's the thing to remember - bards sacrifice a song or two to add a chant for DPS, or a mez, etc. You gotta pick those 3-4 song rotations carefully and decide what to bump out

[Homesteaded]

I played a bard on blue, finished epic before Velious dropped. I know Bards. Sitting and playing only songs is not what Bards should be doing most of the time. These Bards are not chanting dots they are playing mana song and chant of battle and not doing anything else. It's an issue I've seen all the way up to high levels. Bards who don't even know they can mez or how to charm, how to lull or pull. It's sad to see such a powerful class represented like this.

[Cen]

Oh, yeah, this sounds more like bards not knowing at all what they actually can do. My blue main to endgame was bard as well, but I didn't the epic

[Danth]

This is probably another symptom of the larger culture of laziness that has gradually infested the grouping scene on P99 over the past half decade or so. It has almost totally soured the wife and I on grouping because we're so very sick of inviting people just for them to immediately expect to be carried whilst putting in minimal effort themselves. When we're on we seldom join anyone 'cept known friends anymore. Most any class seems to prone to such laziness since it's a culture issue moreso than a class issue, but slacking bards are extremely easy to see so they tend to stand out somewhat.

Danth

[Homesteaded]

This is probably another symptom of the larger culture of laziness that has gradually infested the grouping scene on P99 over the past half decade or so. It has almost totally soured the wife and I on grouping because we're so very sick of inviting people just for them to immediately expect to be carried whilst putting in minimal effort themselves. When we're on we seldom join anyone 'cept known friends anymore. Most any class seems to prone to such laziness since it's a culture issue moreso than a class issue, but slacking bards are extremely easy to see so they tend to stand out somewhat.

Danth

This is a great point Danth, it isn't exclusive to the Bard. It's just way more apparent when they play like this. This is exactly the situation I run into. As a tank generally I have to tank and pull mobs while all these other capable classes just sit there and attack a mob. They contribute no joy to the group, no banter, no utility. They are effectively mercenaries. I've started being way more picky and will call these people out. Generally there are other people looking to join groups who will contribute.

[zanderklocke]

What happened to the passion? What happened to the hard work? What happened to the OG '99 bards? Keep poser bards out of the scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1kgZLgWpb8)!

[branamil]

Because it's a 25 year old game so busting your ass to level 5% faster isn't worth it.

Bard melee is a tickle without epic and not worth the instrument multiplier loss.

It's not worth it to give yourself carpal tunnel just so an obese 45 year old group mate can relive their nostalgia harder and parasite off your effort.

This isn't an FPS. It's a casual role playing game. Hope this helps

[Gloomlord]

There is a bad Bard epidemic on Green. The vast majority I have seen do not even twist 3 songs on instruments.

If you can't even do that, you might as well not even be playing the class.

[tadkins]

If your bard uses its melee weapons without a instrument bonus at lower levels, that can be fine too but they need to select very specific songs to get the most out of that, namely singing only songs. Most other songs become insanely weak when you don't have the instrument. Big examples being Hymn of Resto and Chords of Diss.

At level 6, having a bard twisting just those two songs will far out damage the offset of picking up their single melee weapon.

Really, a lot of the time instruments straight up double songs effects as long as you have the correct type, and don't use the percent gains.

I don't usually use bad language on the forum too often, but I think I once read someone in the not too distant past saying "any bard that melee's is a shitter, unless they have their epic" and I think that's actually a pretty accurate statement.

I honestly never knew that. Always gave up on my attempts at bard around level 8 or so since I never really knew how to level them.

So I can face tank things just using an instrument and those two songs? Might give bard another shot at some point with those pointers.

The reason you guys might be seeing "bad bards" is because bard is a tough and sometimes obscure class to play, and not everyone's going to know how to do everything they can do.

[Ooloo]

Because it's a 25 year old game so busting your ass to level 5% faster isn't worth it.

Busting your ass over *brand new* games doesn't make you any less of a huge nerd sorry.

It's always strange when people bring up the old age of the game they are ostensibly still addicted to. If anything it's a credit to the game that people still play it.

[unsunghero]

The advent of dual monitors and smart phones definitely makes it easier to be distracted nowadays

Reminds me of how bards worked on live when I was playing. Never saw anyone actually playing a bard. There were in-game song sequence macros…you just put 3 songs on there, and put the bard box on autofollow. My 3rd F2P account bard was even named Songbox or something. Every once in a while he’d autofollow too close to a mob and get one shot

[Cen]

I honestly never knew that. Always gave up on my attempts at bard around level 8 or so since I never really knew how to level them.

So I can face tank things just using an instrument and those two songs? Might give bard another shot at some point with those pointers.

The reason you guys might be seeing "bad bards" is because bard is a tough and sometimes obscure class to play, and not everyone's going to know how to do everything they can do.

If you twist those two songs, you can kill things easily. Eventually, you'll naturally start to kite things with the AOE damage song, and then become the army of bards who realize you can avoid being hit and kite.. a lot of things ;p

Swarming doesn't make you a bad bard as some would say, it just makes you a kiter. Like a wizard or druid does kind of. Still have to learn good group techniques.

[Vivitron]

I don't usually find swapping in a prime hand instrument while meleeing much more demanding than swapping in the correct instrument for each song, so I might as well get the free ~30dps from meleeing now that I have them.

It's a real bummer that they're as hard to get as they are, but there are a lot of song effects which don't benefit from instrument mods:

* Slow
* Haste
* Mez (except its mr debuff)
* Charm (except its mr debuff)
* SS helm eyeball for pulling
* Mana Regen
* Single target snare
* Fear

For xp group songs that mostly leaves to instruments hp regen, dots, and ae snare. I found in a typical group I would come out ahead by meleeing even before prime hand instruments, and just a Lute of the Howler is enough to make it an easy choice in most player tanked groups. Suppose a twist along the lines of slow (no instrument) / haste (no instrument) / mana regen (lute of howler swap) / dot (lute of howler swap), with pulling and crowd control taking priority over the twist -- but also meleeing while sending out an eyeball and usually while mezzing or charming too.

[Varja]

I remember playing my 60 Bard on blue, there was never a single second of downtime. Twisting 4 songs with 0 downtime from the time I entered the group until I left. If I'm not pulling, as soon as combat ends my mana songs are in rotation, during combat I'm twisting everything I can to be as useful as possible. Mez, charm, slows, dots, mana, haste, everything depending on the group comp. Sometimes having to sit to swap out different things repeatedly on the fly depending on the situation. My favorite times as a bard are when something has happened, such as a train, so I wait for everything to get into range and AoE slow them to pull aggro and kite them so everyone in the area can pummel them in the back and clean up the mess. Can't count how many times I did this in KC. That zone is amazing. Despite the cramped areas, I'd literally pull the entire front end and everything on the bridge and swarm them all down. Often inviting melee in the entrance that were LFG and let them backstab and beat down the pack. Hands down favorite class in the game, unmated versatility.

[Ennewi]

If you twist those two songs, you can kill things easily. Eventually, you'll naturally start to kite things with the AOE damage song, and then become the army of bards who realize you can avoid being hit and kite.. a lot of things ;p

Swarming doesn't make you a bad bard as some would say, it just makes you a kiter. Like a wizard or druid does kind of. Still have to learn good group techniques.

To this point, it does help to have kited at least some levels if planning to raid, specifically when it comes to Plane of Fear.

[Cecily]

Then you have some virtuosos using 5+ songs/procs in a rogue raid group who need to go back to the cleric group and play mana song like good bots. My issue with this is your relentless I'm doing something overfills my buff bar and screws up my buff order, when really I just need you to + my atk and let me forget you're there.

[Encroaching Death]

I'd play a Bard but my family has a history of arthritis.

That being said...they do intrigue me.

It's about the only class I've never touched. The highest I've ever got a Bard was level 2 when I accidently tried out my level 2 AOE DoT song next to Freeport guards.

[Homesteaded]

I remember playing my 60 Bard on blue, there was never a single second of downtime. Twisting 4 songs with 0 downtime from the time I entered the group until I left. If I'm not pulling, as soon as combat ends my mana songs are in rotation, during combat I'm twisting everything I can to be as useful as possible. Mez, charm, slows, dots, mana, haste, everything depending on the group comp. Sometimes having to sit to swap out different things repeatedly on the fly depending on the situation. My favorite times as a bard are when something has happened, such as a train, so I wait for everything to get into range and AoE slow them to pull aggro and kite them so everyone in the area can pummel them in the back and clean up the mess. Can't count how many times I did this in KC. That zone is amazing. Despite the cramped areas, I'd literally pull the entire front end and everything on the bridge and swarm them all down. Often inviting melee in the entrance that were LFG and let them backstab and beat down the pack. Hands down favorite class in the game, unmated versatility.


This is how I played my bard and it is how they are meant to be played. They are play makers with so many tools in their kit.

[astuce999]

Then you have some virtuosos using 5+ songs/procs in a rogue raid group who need to go back to the cleric group and play mana song like good bots. My issue with this is your relentless I'm doing something overfills my buff bar and screws up my buff order, when really I just need you to + my atk and let me forget you're there.

hahahahahaha, guilty.

Astuce

[Naxy]

Bards…. Rock!

[Ooloo]

I just wish people would make bards without stupid music-related puns as names.

I wanna see a bard named "Employedperson" or "Stablefamily" or something like that.

[PabloEdvardo]

bards are incredibly frustrating to play on current-state p99 due to the "dropped song cast" bug, where your casting bar sometimes doesn't register you singing the song, which makes keeping a consistent twist going a pain in the ass

this comes from someone who leveled a bard on both blue and green to 50+ (with lots of grouping)

[Swish]

It could be worse, you could be dealing with Luclin cat bards with armor tinting (you can pick anything, but everyone picks pink).

[Gloomlord]

bards are incredibly frustrating to play on current-state p99 due to the "dropped song cast" bug, where your casting bar sometimes doesn't register you singing the song, which makes keeping a consistent twist going a pain in the ass

this comes from someone who leveled a bard on both blue and green to 50+ (with lots of grouping)

Thought I was the only one going through this.

The casting bar drops, even though it says you haven't missed a note. It's EXTREMELY annoying.

[Toxigen]

I just wish people would make bards without stupid music-related puns as names.

I wanna see a bard named "Employedperson" or "Stablefamily" or something like that.

lmao

my bard is Henleyfrey Felderwalsh

all my songs are macros of eagles song titles that match the theme

(selos Life in the Fast Lane, haste Take it to the Limit, etc)

and i dont melee b/c im not a shitter, hope this helps

[Naxy]

Thought I was the only one going through this.

The casting bar drops, even though it says you haven't missed a note. It's EXTREMELY annoying.

The casting bar drops, but the song still completes. You see that song icons are greyed out. I don’t think much about it anymore. The duration is known. The songs are greyed out. All is good, enough. :)

[Naxy]

I just wish people would make bards without stupid music-related puns as names.

I wanna see a bard named "Employedperson" or "Stablefamily" or something like that.

Mine is called Prezy. ;)

[Encroaching Death]

I just wish people would make bards without stupid music-related puns as names.

I wanna see a bard named "Employedperson" or "Stablefamily" or something like that.

Deejay.

Makintunes.

Trebleclef.

Gitarhero.

Droppinbeatz.