Regarding raiding Plane of Growth

[tadkins]

Something I've always been curious about. Are there situations in guilds at that level where members are reluctant to raid that place due to faction issues? I can't imagine elves, druids, Tunare followers, and even just plain not-evil folks would be all too happy to kill in that place.

Do guilds allow it when a member says "I don't want to trash my faction in there.", or is there some ostracization/kicking going on if they do? Is that childish for a person to say, because after all they're putting RP/their own character's faction above the will and success of the guild? I know there are high elf paladins out there who don't really have that sort of RP mindset, just don't give a damn and just trash factions with their own guild.

Just something I'm kind of wrestling with. My Brell gnome mage is getting to the level where the Sisters in OOT would make for good exp, and I'm sitting here wondering if I should just...cut to the chase and trash my factions there. After all, if I'm going to be expected to kill in PoG one day, why not just do it now? Even though lore-wise Brell and Tunare are supposed to be friends. xD

How do you guys handle it?

[Tunabros]

hop on guild bot or different toon or dont care about faction

[Danth]

I don't know about Green, but on Blue relatively few guilds outside those fighting Tunare bother with Growth. There are a couple that do. Mostly, especially for the lower-end guilds the zone is really best for, it's not too heavily used. Someone brings up "Growth" in chat, suddenly all your clerics have a bunch of other things they totally forgot about needing to do and log off.

Danth

[Zarakk]

Are there situations in guilds ... where members are reluctant to raid ... due to faction issues?

Do guilds allow it when a member says "I don't want to trash my faction in there.", or is there some ostracization/kicking going on if they do?

Just something I'm kind of wrestling with.


Yes, these situations do exist. I am not the serious roleplayer I used to be back in EQLive 15-20 years ago, indeed, I barely RP at all anymore, but I still consider lore issues to be an important part of the game for me, and actions have to fit the theme of the world, for me. My characters tend to be elven-centric, or at least, good-aligned, so, like you, I do not raid in Plane of Growth, and I never will.

As for how guilds react, well, it will depend on the guild. What is the guild philosophy towards raiding, for example? What is the guild's philosophy for a player's right to make decisions about their own gaming and what they enjoy?

You ask at a poignant time. This weekend my guild had its first attempt at a solo PoG raid. It was a great success, although help was called in from another guild to kill Tunare at the end on this occasion.

But although I am often a raider with the guild, on that day I didn't personally take part, I spent my time online that day doing other things. This is not a problem, because raiding is an optional part of gaming for the guild, not a mandatory authoritarian instruction.

Choose your guild wisely, and you should have no issues.

[Ooloo]

Yes, these situations do exist. I am not the serious roleplayer I used to be back in EQLive 15-20 years ago, indeed, I barely RP at all anymore, but I still consider lore issues to be an important part of the game for me, and actions have to fit the theme of the world, for me. My characters tend to be elven-centric, or at least, good-aligned, so, like you, I do not raid in Plane of Growth, and I never will.

As for how guilds react, well, it will depend on the guild. What is the guild philosophy towards raiding, for example? What is the guild's philosophy for a player's right to make decisions about their own gaming and what they enjoy?

You ask at a poignant time. This weekend my guild had its first attempt at a solo PoG raid. It was a great success, although help was called in from another guild to kill Tunare at the end on this occasion.

But although I am often a raider with the guild, on that day I didn't personally take part, I spent my time online that day doing other things. This is not a problem, because raiding is an optional part of gaming for the guild, not a mandatory authoritarian instruction.

Choose your guild wisely, and you should have no issues.

This is true, and I prefer guilds who don't make raiding mandatory, though it's important to note that in this type of guild a clique almost always forms among the people who *do* treat raiding as mandatory, and is often what ends up splintering a guild. It's happened countless times in p99 and eq history generally, so in a sense I can understand the value of raid-mandatory guilds as far as cohesion and longevity go.

[loramin]

What guild requires you to go to Growth?

On Green I don't even know of any guilds that require you to go to any encounter (you go if you want DKP/loot, otherwise you don't) ... is this a Blue guild thing?

[Encroaching Death]

Seriously though, why did they decide to make a raid zone that completely ruins your faction with multiple cities??

What were they thinking??

[Ooloo]

Seriously though, why did they decide to make a raid zone that completely ruins your faction with multiple cities??

What were they thinking??

Risk\reward! I'd be willing to become an outcast for some sweet tunare loot.

[Encroaching Death]

Risk\reward! I'd be willing to become an outcast for some sweet tunare loot.

I'd go on my Necro for sure. I leveled 49-57 in Kelethin and Felwithe, so I have blood on my hands.

[bhoff1975]

Seriously though, why did they decide to make a raid zone that completely ruins your faction with multiple cities??

What were they thinking??

I can't tell if you are joking or not. But Velious is built on a shells game of faction swapping. Killing any major Velious targets will have big faction consequences.

From an Iksar loyalist perspective, killing the good guys is a fun twist and has more upside than down.

[tadkins]

Seriously though, why did they decide to make a raid zone that completely ruins your faction with multiple cities??

What were they thinking??

Agreed. Makes no sense if you're not an evil character. Puts good/neutral characters into a bad position for no reason.

I guess I just have to headcanon that the elves were planning on world conquest and I'm a hero trying to stop them. Lmao.

[tadkins]

I can't tell if you are joking or not. But Velious is built on a shells game of faction swapping. Killing any major Velious targets will have big faction consequences.

From an Iksar loyalist perspective, killing the good guys is a fun twist and has more upside than down.

Difference is that the Velious factions are all grey and simply warring groups.

What would you do if raiding Fear dropped all your Cabilis factions?

[cd288]

Difference is that the Velious factions are all grey and simply warring groups.

What would you do if raiding Fear dropped all your Cabilis factions?

They would raid Fear for a chance at the loot and then go repair their Cabilis faction.

This is exactly what happens when people raid ToV for example. You destroy your CoV faction as a result. Then you go and grind your faction back up (if you need to on that char - for example, if you're still trying to get certain pieces of Skyshrine armor or have other quests you need to turn in eventually, etc.).

Classic EQ is a game of trade offs. Want to raid certain zones for certain good loot? Then you're gonna have some additional time needed to repair faction.

The good news is that IIRC for certain classes there's nothing you really need the factions Growth affects for. So you can raid Growth without an issue really.

[Allishia]

Can you repair tunare faction? I didn't think you could but I dunno

[tadkins]

The good news is that IIRC for certain classes there's nothing you really need the factions Growth affects for. So you can raid Growth without an issue really.

True. As a gnome mage I don't really *need* to hang out in Kelethin or Felwithe. It's just the RP implications of it all. It doesn't really feel good.

Mostly just wondering, say if I joined a guild like Kingdom or Good Guys one day, how would they react if I said I don't want to participate in PoG raids?

[Danth]

What were they thinking??

Growth was quid pro quo for the old planar raids being against "evil" stuff and numerous Kunark dungeons trashing that expansion's evil faction.

By the time most players get to needing stuff from Growth they typically don't need to hang out in the elf cities anymore anyhow, so it's not that big a deal. Maybe it wouldn't be on its own, but that combined with the constant annoyance of Protectors kind of kill that zone for the types of lower-end guilds it was theoretically meant for.

Danth

[tadkins]

and numerous Kunark dungeons trashing that expansion's evil faction.

That was pretty messed up too. Especially considering HS happens to be a great spot for necros, yet RP-wise it makes no sense for anyone but iksar necs to hunt there.

[PatChapp]

True. As a gnome mage I don't really *need* to hang out in Kelethin or Felwithe. It's just the RP implications of it all. It doesn't really feel good.

Mostly just wondering, say if I joined a guild like Kingdom or Good Guys one day, how would they react if I said I don't want to participate in PoG raids?
You wouldn't need to say anything,you just wouldn't show up.

[Kirdan]

There isn't a single guild on the server that requires raiding, that is a silly assumption that people make.

As for Tunare factions, it doesn't ruin your faction in entire cities. It affects things like clr/pal/dru/rng guilds in Felwithe and Kelethin, each of which are reparable by stuffing a dwarf in Freeport with muffins, if you care enough. You can still do most things you need to do in those cities without ever interacting with those guilds. The other faction that you tank by killing in PoG is that of the mobs in PoG, and that faction cannot be repaired. So if you want to do a quest in PoG, like the Tunare-worshipper class quests, then you want to finish that quest before you tank your faction. Once you have finished quests, you can tank it at will and the only thing you lose within the zone is your ability to run around freely.

[Zuranthium]

Plane of Growth is useless outside of Tunare. Bad loot and unimaginatively designed. Spend time elsewhere.

[tadkins]

You wouldn't need to say anything,you just wouldn't show up.

There isn't a single guild on the server that requires raiding, that is a silly assumption that people make.


That's fair. I suppose I'm just too used to the idea of guilds requiring their members to "sacrifice for the greater good of the guild".

As for Tunare factions, it doesn't ruin your faction in entire cities. It affects things like clr/pal/dru/rng guilds in Felwithe and Kelethin, each of which are reparable by stuffing a dwarf in Freeport with muffins, if you care enough. You can still do most things you need to do in those cities without ever interacting with those guilds. The other faction that you tank by killing in PoG is that of the mobs in PoG, and that faction cannot be repaired. So if you want to do a quest in PoG, like the Tunare-worshipper class quests, then you want to finish that quest before you tank your faction. Once you have finished quests, you can tank it at will and the only thing you lose within the zone is your ability to run around freely.

Yup I know, it affects all the religious-affiliated groups in Kelethin and Felwithe. So I'd still be fine with the guards, merchants, bards, rogues, and spellcasters in both cities.

As I said, it just feels weird to trash those factions as a non-evil character, from a RP-standpoint. The sisters in OOT did nothing to my Brell gnome mage or agnostic human enchanter. Ideologically we have no reason to fight. The only way those characters would become KoS to them is sheer bloodlust and greed on their part. It's just very hard to wrap my mind around and justify.

[Jimjam]

The sisters are a bunch of embittered misandrists lead by a grudgebearing hag who can’t accept she wasn’t the caliber of a real guild master. They’re practically dark elves of Innoruuk at this point and should be removed from the Ocean of Tears before their negative energy sustains evil creatures such as cyclops and spectres any further than has already happened.

Do the world a favour and farm halberds.

[Encroaching Death]

The sisters are a bunch of embittered misandrists lead by a grudgebearing hag who can’t accept she wasn’t the caliber of a real guild master. They’re practically dark elves of Innoruuk at this point and should be removed from the Ocean of Tears before their negative energy sustains evil creatures such as cyclops and spectres any further than has already happened.

Do the world a favour and farm halberds.

https://c.tenor.com/m53E_a4WjlEAAAAC/i-like-this-guy-proud.gif

[tadkins]

The sisters are a bunch of embittered misandrists lead by a grudgebearing hag who can’t accept she wasn’t the caliber of a real guild master. They’re practically dark elves of Innoruuk at this point and should be removed from the Ocean of Tears before their negative energy sustains evil creatures such as cyclops and spectres any further than has already happened.

Do the world a favour and farm halberds.

haha nice xD

I think I'm just going to pretend I had a dark elf friend at some point who needed help killing there. Could happen, right?

Likewise if I feel like trashing my gnome faction, my erudite paladin friend who wanted to do the Deepwater Harpoon questline appreciated my help in killing Jogl.

...Right? Right? *brandishes knife* You all saw nothin'!

[Jimjam]

haha nice xD

I think I'm just going to pretend I had a dark elf friend at some point who needed help killing there. Could happen, right?

Likewise if I feel like trashing my gnome faction, my erudite paladin friend who wanted to do the Deepwater Harpoon questline appreciated my help in killing Jogl.

...Right? Right? *brandishes knife* You all saw nothin'!

I deffo have a dark elf parked there, friend! I just need you to break camp for me before I log in … promise!