The Definitive Class Ranking Thread - VOTE!

[Zuranthium]

We've had some long threads debating the power level of classes, but now let's have everyone vote. Rank all of the classes on how you perceive their power level, accounting for the full 1999-2001 timeline of Everquest and the various modes of playing the game (raid, group, duo, etc).

My ballot (this is just for PvE server), with notations on rankings for different eras (Classic / Kunark / Velious). I am accounting for the actual mechanics and policies of these eras, not whatever incorrect thing p99 has instead (the p99 version of Play Nice Policy is wrong for example, whereas limiting AoE to 25 MOBs is classically "accurate"):

1. Enchanter ( 2 / 1 / 1 )
2. Cleric ( 6 / 3 / 2 ) - boring to put them here, but C-heal and rez stick
3. Bard ( 4 / 2 / 5 )
4. Shaman ( 8 / 4 / 4 )
5. Monk ( 10 / 5 / 3 ) - Velious rating = Triple Attack era + top gear
6. Necromancer ( 1 / 8 / 9 )
7. Magician ( 3 / 9 / 8 )
8. Warrior ( 12 / 7 / 6 )
9. Rogue ( 14 / 6 / 7 )
10. Druid ( 5 / 12 / 10 )
11. Wizard ( 7 / 10 / 14 )
12. Shadowknight ( 9 / 11 / 12 )
13. Ranger ( 11 / 14 / 11 )
14. Paladin ( 13 / 13 / 13 )

Note - I have been informed DeathsSilkyMist will be banned if writing more than one post here. That should allow for better discussion and less disruption in the thread.

Note 2 - If you don't want your ballot to be public, just private message it to me. People are also free to edit their ballots, just let me know and I will update the spreadsheet. The results will be released after ballots stop being received/edited with any frequency.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Note - I have been informed DeathsSilkyMist will be banned if writing more than one post here. That should allow for better discussion and less disruption in the thread.

Yup, the moderators of this forum PM you about who they are going to ban:rolleyes: I think they will ban the people RnF flaming threads outside of RnF with insults of autism and gifs of silly memes first. That is much more distruptive.

Just make a poll so everybody can see who voted. I am not sure I trust your ability to collate the data in a fair and accurate way, given how biased and vitriolic you have been in the recent past. You can't hide your post history.


My ballot (this is just for PvE server), with notations on rankings for different eras (Classic / Kunark / Velious). I am accounting for the actual mechanics and policies of these eras, not whatever incorrect thing p99 has instead (the p99 version of Play Nice Policy is wrong for example, whereas limiting AoE to 25 MOBs is classically "accurate"):


This should be in off-topic then to be honest. This forum is about the P99 Green Server. What the developers do to modify P99 to fit their needs matters in the discussion, since this is the game we are all actually playing.

[PlsNoBan]

We've had some long threads debating the power level of classes, but now let's have everyone vote. Rank all of the classes on how you perceive their power level, accounting for the full 1999-2001 timeline of Everquest and the various modes of playing the game (raid, group, duo, etc).

My ballot (this is just for PvE server), with notations on rankings for different eras (Classic / Kunark / Velious). I am accounting for the actual mechanics and policies of these eras, not whatever incorrect thing p99 has instead (the p99 version of Play Nice Policy is wrong for example, whereas limiting AoE to 25 MOBs is classically "accurate"):

1. Enchanter ( 2 / 1 / 1 )
2. Cleric ( 6 / 3 / 2 ) - boring to put them here, but C-heal and rez stick
3. Bard ( 4 / 2 / 5 )
4. Shaman ( 8 / 4 / 4 )
5. Monk ( 10 / 5 / 3 ) - Velious rating = Triple Attack era + top gear
6. Necromancer ( 1 / 8 / 9 )
7. Magician ( 3 / 9 / 8 )
8. Warrior ( 12 / 7 / 6 )
9. Rogue ( 14 / 6 / 7 )
10. Druid ( 5 / 12 / 10 )
11. Wizard ( 7 / 10 / 14 )
12. Shadowknight ( 9 / 11 / 12 )
13. Ranger ( 11 / 14 / 11 )
14. Paladin ( 13 / 13 / 13 )

Note - I have been informed DeathsSilkyMist will be banned if writing more than one post here. That should allow for better discussion and less disruption in the thread.

Note 2 - If you don't want your ballot to be public, just private message it to me. People are also free to edit their ballots, just let me know and I will update the spreadsheet. The results will be released after ballots stop being received/edited with any frequency.

I'm a little confused about how the voting works. Are we giving each class a 1-10 rating for each era? Or just an overall ranking across all eras from strongest to weakest?


P.S. I hope that note about DSM is correct. There's ZERO chance he only posts once.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'm a little confused about how the voting works. Are we giving each class a 1-10 rating for each era? Or just an overall ranking across all eras from strongest to weakest?


P.S. I hope that note about DSM is correct. There's ZERO chance he only posts once.

PlsNoBan would be high on the list of people to ban, considering the last 100 of his posts are just insults and/or trolls outside of RnF. It's really unfortunate, and easy to check. He is literally averaging posting the word "autism" or "autistic" in 1 of every 3 posts for his last 100 lol, not in RnF.

To answer your question though, it looks like he is just ranking the classes based on how many there are.

So 1 would be the best, and 14 would be the worst. He is asking you to rank every class at the same time, so each class would have a unique number between 1 and 14 for each era.

[Zuranthium]

I'm a little confused about how the voting works. Are we giving each class a 1-10 rating for each era? Or just an overall ranking across all eras from strongest to weakest?

Just do 1 overall ranking for the balloting purpose, #1 through #14, but you can also give ranking breakdowns per era and discuss it if you want, because that's fun.

[Keebz]

I like the general spirit of this, but a 1-10 ranking system would be a little more usable. I don't think a strict ranking makes sense given all the classes do different roles.

[PlsNoBan]

PlsNoBan would be high on the list of people to ban, considering the last 100 of his posts are just insults and/or trolls outside of RnF. It's really unfortunate, and easy to check. He is literally averaging posting the word "autism" in 1 of every 5 posts for his last 100 lol, not in RnF.

To answer your question though, it looks like he is just ranking the classes based on how many there are.

So 1 would be the best, and 14 would be the worst. He is asking you to rank every class at the same time, so each class would have a unique number between 1 and 14 for each era.

https://i.imgur.com/pjBLOaf.gif

It's hard to rank classes overall. Some are insanely powerful in certain areas of the game and not so much in others. My rankings would be entirely different for solo vs group vs raid with maybe a couple exceptions. Enchanter is probably in the #1 spot across the board. Warrior and Cleric might be ahead for raids cause it's literally impossible to raid anything of significance without them. Every other class you can successfully raid without in a pinch.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://i.imgur.com/pjBLOaf.gif


I corrected it to 1 in every 3 posts where you are posting the word "autistic" or "autism" in the last 100 posts. The ban hammer (if it does come), will come indeed:)

To quote the forum rules:


Attacks/Flames
Argue the point, not the poster. Do not attack, slander, or bash fellow forum users.


Nobody is perfect at this. I have slipped from time to time as we all have, but I would say posting the word "autistic" or "autism" in 1 out of every 3 posts to bash another user for your last 100 posts is pretty bad. This is outside of RnF, so the rules apply.

To Zuranthium, this thread should be in off-topic, as it is not discussing the ranking for the P99 classes. This forum is specifically discussing P99 Green Server, not what live Everquest had circa Vanilla to Velious. Any custom changes the developers purposely put in to P99 are not flukes, or due to lack of proof something was a certain way in live. You should make it a poll, so it is easy to see what everybody voted, so there is no error in tallying.

[Zuranthium]

I like the general spirit of this, but a 1-10 ranking system would be a little more usable. I don't think a strict ranking makes sense given all the classes do different roles.

Just have to decide for yourself which class adds the most amount of "power" to the game compared to others and rank them accordingly. If you are doing ratings then you are ranking anyway, and the problem with using ratings is it's too arbitrary here and also skews the results (aka, people trying to give a certain class 1/10 and another class 10/10).

[Keza]

Are you & EQRP the same person? Seriously, you two(?) always seem to make these threads about non-questions that inspire arguments for no particular reason in an ancient game where every sane person knows the status quo. If you actually cared about such arguments why not make an all-encompassing thread instead of acute commentaries about specific scenarios? How does one even rank power level over a 3 year timeline?

Next I'm expecting a "Whose the best class at farming floor 3 of Befallen? UPVOTE, COMMENT, & SMASH DAT LIKE BUTTON!" thread.

I just don't see the reasoning behind it, especially when forbidding people from arguing to begin with. Starting such a thread but banning DSM, one of the only people who bothers to argue you to death. It seems counter-intuitive. Who then shall you argue against? Me? But I'm not going to bother, so then you get nothing out of it besides this single bump.

[Zuranthium]

How does one even rank power level over a 3 year timeline?

Just average it out mentally: gun to head, life depends on a decision, how do you rank them all? This is all based on each individual's experience, consideration, preference, and gut feeling. There's no way to concretely measure every variable, but if everyone thinks about it and votes, then we will have a community tier list. DSM can submit a ballot too, we just don't want him to write in the thread much, since that tends to ruin the conversation and deter others from participating.

[PatChapp]

Just average it out mentally: gun to head, life depends on a decision, how do you rank them all? This is all based on each individual's experience, consideration, preference, and gut feeling. There's no way to concretely measure every variable, but if everyone thinks about it and votes, then we will have a community tier list. DSM can submit a ballot too, we just don't want him to write in the thread much, since that tends to ruin the conversation and deter others from participating.

You seem to be really hung up on this other person,perhaps consider taking a forum break.

[cd288]

Cue 75 page thread filled with 10 paragraph long comments from DSM about how he’s right and everyone else is wrong

[SenoraRaton]

DSM has half the posts in first page. Yup, sounds bout right.

[Troxx]

Cue 75 page thread filled with 10 paragraph long comments from DSM about how he’s right and everyone else is wrong

[Troxx]

List first then discussion:

Ench: 3/1/1
Mage: 2/5/9
Necro: 1/6/8
Wiz: 6/13/14
Cleric: 7/2/2
Druid: 5/12/13
Shaman: 8/4/4
Warrior: 14/14/3
Paladin: 12/11/10
SK: 11/10/12
Ranger: 10/9/11
Bard: 4/3/7
Rogue: 13/8/6
Monk: 9/7/5

This was actually super difficult and I find myself disagreeing with myself on a lot of points but this was my first gut impression. Classic favors casters heavily and you’ll see my stratifications reflect this. Some casters stay way at the top, others like druid and wiz take a nosedive. Of the melee, the more “extra” they have to offer the higher I put them.

Warrior most improved. Prior to velious nothing really needs needs defensive and fights are so short you can get by with a lot of other classes. Warrior aggro is just so pathetic that I had to keep them at last. Not sure how I feel about that but I did sling them up to 3rd as they are more or less a raiding requirement for most all content until you are gear saturated and even then they are a requirement for the hard stuff. With new weapons their aggro isn’t so much a pain anymore.

By breakdown though.

Enchanters: start strongish finish strongest. Charm, cc and mind buffs just put them in a class of their own
Mage: OP pets be OP but they diminish with time and end up on the back half but nowhere near the bottom
Necro: they rock at the start with a big toolkit and slowly drift back but stay ahead of mage
Wizard: start off pretty good with ports, mobility, quads and big damage when melee weapons suck. They take a total nose dive at the end.
Cleric: start off middle of the pack but end up right around the top for obvious reasons
Druid: start off surprisingly high. Mobility, ports, quads, buffs, charms heals. Strong in classic before taking a nose dive to the bottomish (for reasons we all know)
Shaman: always good and hard to place them in classic. Can argue they belong above clerics in classic easily. Hard to nail down classic but end up solidly top tier last 2 expansions.
Warrior: this one was the hardest. Classic I put them dead last as most gear dependent and can’t reliably do the one thing they are supposed to do in classic due to shit aggro. I wanted to put them higher in kunark but boss mob hp of 32k … you can get by with a knight tanking and a fast burn more reliably. For better or worse put them at the back. Velious changed everything. Strong weapons, aggro is easier and quite good. Mostly I have them at the top as really anything worth doing to advance self/raid/guild requires them to take point. It is a critical class that cannot be replaced or removed (more than you can say for most other classes). Maybe I inflated them too much but I put them 3rd
Paladin: middling back for all eras. It pained me to do it as they have a lot of value to add.
SK: same as above. Velious I bumped them back behind paladins
Ranger: consistently in the bottom of the middle third.
Bard: depends on the bard but I rated them as if they knew wtf they were doing
Rogue: pretty unilateral class. Gear dependent and ranked low classic. This one was always super hard as dps is very high but still so group dependent and focused it brings total power down. Having said that, total power score I don’t reflects desirability as most any group and definitely any raid would always want to see more of them
Monk: I struggled with this one as well … cause you do obviously need them. Very tanky. Very dps-y. Very floppy. I have a hard time knowing where best to put them but I think I ranked them globally too low.

Oh well that’s my first impressions

[Tilien]

Next I'm expecting a "Whose the best class at farming floor 3 of Befallen? UPVOTE, COMMENT, & SMASH DAT LIKE BUTTON!" thread.


I assume we are talking level 60 velious BiS right?

[Troxx]

I think for all of us we should consider the full scope of each expansion as well as what the current expansion offered compared to the previous. Classic was scrub class vs scrub class. Kunark helped to focus things. Velious is super raid centric.

That’s just me

[Gustoo]

Fun i will check in later.

[Toxigen]

prob w/e class gets ST to concede 4 vulaks is the strongest

[Zuranthium]

This was actually super difficult and I find myself disagreeing with myself on a lot of points but this was my first gut impression.

Was nice you started with a breakdown per era! You'll have to do a final ballot still :) I thought to maybe average the scores you gave for each era, but there would be many ties, so that doesn't work.

I would say you overrated Ranger a lot for Kunark though. That era where their skillcaps lag behind and they have no disciplines and no increased spellpower relative to 1999, and still saddled with exp penalty, is very rough for them.

One thing regarding Mage, I put them as slightly better in Velious than Kunark because CotH and Mod Rod become a lot more powerful there. They are also able to make their pet immune to fear in Velious, which is significant, since bosses that feared would always land it on pets.

[unsunghero]

Necro master class

Iksar master race

[Kich867]

Necro master class

Iksar master race

Necros seem so fuckin cool to me thematically, mechanically, I love the skeleton pets, I love the dots, I love the life drain, I love fear kiting and the lich line, and I cannot for the life of me get past like...level 20 on a necromancer without wanting to blow my brains out.

Maybe its because I keep going iksar, I just kinda hate staying in field of bone that long, maybe I'll try a DE or something.

[unsunghero]

Necros seem so fuckin cool to me thematically, mechanically, I love the skeleton pets, I love the dots, I love the life drain, I love fear kiting and the lich line, and I cannot for the life of me get past like...level 20 on a necromancer without wanting to blow my brains out.

Maybe its because I keep going iksar, I just kinda hate staying in field of bone that long, maybe I'll try a DE or something.

I only played necro on live but they have a few diff ways to kill. Could always try mixing things up with charming UD!

[PlsNoBan]

Necros seem so fuckin cool to me thematically, mechanically, I love the skeleton pets, I love the dots, I love the life drain, I love fear kiting and the lich line, and I cannot for the life of me get past like...level 20 on a necromancer without wanting to blow my brains out.

Maybe its because I keep going iksar, I just kinda hate staying in field of bone that long, maybe I'll try a DE or something.

Or you could like... Go somewhere else with your iksar and not gimp yourself?

[Toxigen]

Necros seem so fuckin cool to me thematically, mechanically, I love the skeleton pets, I love the dots, I love the life drain, I love fear kiting and the lich line, and I cannot for the life of me get past like...level 20 on a necromancer without wanting to blow my brains out.

Maybe its because I keep going iksar, I just kinda hate staying in field of bone that long, maybe I'll try a DE or something.

what?

kurns is like...the best low level dungeon ever and super convenient to lizardpeepul main city

[Troxx]

Was nice you started with a breakdown per era! You'll have to do a final ballot still :) I thought to maybe average the scores you gave for each era, but there would be many ties, so that doesn't work.

I would say you overrated Ranger a lot for Kunark though. That era where their skillcaps lag behind and they have no disciplines and no increased spellpower relative to 1999, and still saddled with exp penalty, is very rough for them.

One thing regarding Mage, I put them as slightly better in Velious than Kunark because CotH and Mod Rod become a lot more powerful there. They are also able to make their pet immune to fear in Velious, which is significant, since bosses that feared would always land it on pets.

Yeah no it was hard. Reading through my list I still find areas where I want to throw down and bicker/argue … with myself lol

I think on the whole it paints a clear picture.

For the classes ranked lower … I don’t find them independently weak at all. Not bad classes. Across the board I think the classes are fairly well balanced for a game with so many classes you can play while still maintaining uniqueness to each class. Everquest did a good job. Balance got better in Luclin with specific aa’s helping to lift up the struggling classes and fill some gaps

[Kich867]

what?

kurns is like...the best low level dungeon ever and super convenient to lizardpeepul main city

I know, but I've done it like 4000 fuckin times and my eyes glaze over in boredom. That and I kinda hate the hassle of having to go back to Cab to train/pickup spells. DE sounds more fun this go around.

[Crede]

I know, but I've done it like 4000 fuckin times and my eyes glaze over in boredom. That and I kinda hate the hassle of having to go back to Cab to train/pickup spells. DE sounds more fun this go around.

I went human eyepatch. Fucking loved it. I charmed unrest in the 20s to mid 30s, very easy. Then eventually kaesora where you master the craft. Once you get lich at 49 and bond of death lawl it’s gg. Then splurt and deflux come and you just destroy everything. Their heal at 54 can pretty much main heal most groups. Just so fuckin good it was stupidly unfair. I did have a zheart but eventually at 49 I don’t think it’s necessary between bond of death and deflux and eventually vex it’s a total joke to get health back and you’re gaining mana like crazy without needing to tap everything/canni yourself to carpal tunnel

[Kich867]

I went human eyepatch. Fucking loved it. I charmed unrest in the 20s to mid 30s, very easy. Then eventually kaesora where you master the craft. Once you get lich at 49 and bond of death lawl it’s gg. Then splurt and deflux come and you just destroy everything. Their heal at 54 can pretty much main heal most groups. Just so fuckin good it was stupidly unfair. I did have a zheart but eventually at 49 I don’t think it’s necessary between bond of death and deflux and eventually vex it’s a total joke to get health back and you’re gaining mana like crazy without needing to tap everything/canni yourself to carpal tunnel

Finally looked up what a z-heart is, jesus christ.

I started up a DE Necro this morning, that path sounds pretty fun, I've never actually been to Kaesora.

Thanks!

[Toxigen]

I know, but I've done it like 4000 fuckin times and my eyes glaze over in boredom. That and I kinda hate the hassle of having to go back to Cab to train/pickup spells. DE sounds more fun this go around.

I did the Warrens 5-22 ish for the first time on my pallymon. Was baller, and free hole key.

Highly recommend anyone starting a fresh char / twink to do this.

[Kich867]

I did the Warrens 5-22 ish for the first time on my pallymon. Was baller, and free hole key.

Highly recommend anyone starting a fresh char / twink to do this.

I don't think I've ever been to the warrens, either. Is that the Kobold dungeon near Toxx?

[Toxigen]

I don't think I've ever been to the warrens, either. Is that the Kobold dungeon near Toxx?

Indeed. You get paineel faction there too, plenty to get a free hole key on your way out.

I did Warrens --> Perma --> CT --> Kedge --> Hole (basically all the highest ZEMs in the game) edit: this was on my pallymon, necro would be different (kaesora for sure)

Solo XP superhighway (and have funds to twink ofc).

I think if I had to do a necro that isn't lizardpeepul, it would have to be gnome though.

[eqravenprince]

Kunark and beyond, melee got a boost, but still very much behind all the casters. Any group can add a caster, not any group can add a melee. And who cares about raid power.

Pet classes (Enchanter, Necro, Mage, then shaman and druid once they get pet)
Any non pet class caster (Wizard, Cleric)
.
.
.
.
.
any melee class

[Kich867]

Indeed. You get paineel faction there too, plenty to get a free hole key on your way out.

I did Warrens --> Perma --> CT --> Kedge --> Hole (basically all the highest ZEMs in the game) edit: this was on my pallymon, necro would be different (kaesora for sure)

Solo XP superhighway (and have funds to twink ofc).

I think if I had to do a necro that isn't lizardpeepul, it would have to be gnome though.

Dope thanks for the ideas!

[unsunghero]

Speaking of boring, I think the amount of weight applied to this in terms of rankings is pretty subjective

Myself, I can’t imagine how people play melee classes that only hit the same one or two buttons to kick or backstab every few seconds after turning on auto-attack. That just seems mind-numbingly boring to me. I’m assuming being a class that tends to group more helps bc then you have some group chatter to interact with

I even think using animation pets as enchanter is stick a pencil in my eye dull. I’ll do it when I’m farming green mobs that don’t give exp because it’s smoother at that point than charming and the 50% exp loss to the pet doesn’t matter when mobs don’t give xp anyway. But can’t even give the pet commands, just cast one slow on the mob and listen to the annoying never-ending werewolf growls (from boon buff on pet) on repeat for a few minutes, weeeee

[Kich867]

Speaking of boring, I think the amount of weight applied to this in terms of rankings is pretty subjective

Myself, I can’t imagine how people play melee classes that only hit the same one or two buttons to kick or backstab every few seconds after turning on auto-attack. That just seems mind-numbingly boring to me. I’m assuming being a class that tends to group more helps bc then you have some group chatter to interact with

I even think using animation pets as enchanter is stick a pencil in my eye dull. I’ll do it when I’m farming green mobs that don’t give exp because it’s smoother at that point than charming and the 50% exp loss to the pet doesn’t matter when mobs don’t give xp anyway. But can’t even give the pet commands, just cast one slow on the mob and listen to the annoying never-ending werewolf growls (from boon buff on pet) on repeat for a few minutes, weeeee

In group play I do find playing a warrior one of the most fun classes even though they basically hit Kick and Taunt.

There's a lot of spatial awareness / mob placement / aggro management things going on that are fun. When you're pulling and tanking there's a lot to keep track of mentally--whereas when I play my Cleric/Wizard/Druid in a group, I zone out pretty fuckin hard even if I have to do a lot.

Really the only excitement from those classes is when things go wrong and I can flex on recovering the situation. If it's just smooth sailing solo pulls for 4 hours casters can get pretty boring.

That being said, so far I haven't found a class I don't enjoy playing in groups in some capacity. Even on the wizard, I like ending fights with a nuke to just wipe the thing out.

[Zuranthium]

who cares about raid power

People who want to raid, aka most people, eventually.

[eqravenprince]

People who want to raid, aka most people, eventually.

Most people raid to get better gear, not cause it's fun. Raiding is not fun at all.

[Toxigen]

Most people raid to get better gear, not cause it's fun. Raiding is not fun at all.

Eh...it can be. You just need to be on the right class for your own mindset.

I loved raiding on enc...but was more active than the standard wallicker buffbots.

[Allishia]

Most people raid to get better gear, not cause it's fun. Raiding is not fun at all.

Raiding is the most fun ever!!! Tanking dragons and giants woohoo ! :)

[eqravenprince]

Raiding is the most fun ever!!! Tanking dragons and giants woohoo ! :)

I guess I get more thrill out of a non twinked group in mid 20s in a mid level dungeon than a raid. Raid just seems trivial to me.

[Allishia]

I guess I get more thrill out of a non twinked group in mid 20s in a mid level dungeon than a raid. Raid just seems trivial to me.

Depends what raid. Like war is extra fun on twins and triples cause we get to fte the dragon too! Pop disc, wand da idol, position dragon, burn wort pots while clrs getting clothed, it's Soo much fun !!

And zlandi engage is awesome too! Another dragon the was gets to rush in /nod...yelinak also, the yelinak dragon probably my favorite. Have to shrink and be rdy to run thru gate and shoot an arrow + wand Incase! Woohoo.

Can't wait for Saturday :p

[cd288]

Wars feel badass on raids. But if you're many other classes the raid can feel pretty boring so I get where he's coming from.

Side note, how has this thread managed to avoid 500 novel length posts from DSM about how everyone here is wrong? We got lucky guys!

[Toxigen]

raids are boring for wall-licking warmbodies

raids are fun for people actually contributing

hope this helps

[cd288]

raids are boring for wall-licking warmbodies

raids are fun for people actually contributing

hope this helps

Yeah super fun to COTH and spawn mod rods as a Mage for example. Moron

Don't think anyone should take raiding advice from someone who was kicked from two raiding guilds for being a jerk

[Toxigen]

Yeah super fun to COTH and spawn mod rods as a Mage for example. Moron

Don't think anyone should take raiding advice from someone who was kicked from two raiding guilds for being a jerk

quad DA mage kiting

sorry you dont got raid experience, hope this helps

[cd288]

quad DA mage kiting

sorry you dont got raid experience, hope this helps

You'll be getting a lot of raid experience now that you've been kicked from the raiding guilds and joined Yoremy Tessmia lmao. Won't be seeing you anywhere too much anytime soon

[Toxigen]

lol the snaggleteeth on this one

[cd288]

lol the snaggleteeth on this one

Lol turns out the right wing nutjob turns into a snowflake when he gets owned. Shocked.

[Zuranthium]

Ya'll should be posting ballots, rather than w/e else you're talking about.

[Cen]

Ya'll should be posting ballots, rather than w/e else you're talking about.

I wouldn't put Rangers at the top or middle of this tier list, but they are the best class at using bind sight that also can melee well.

Lets discuss.

[Keebz]

I wouldn't put Rangers at the top or middle of this tier list, but they are the best class at using bind sight that also can melee well.

Lets discuss.

This in combination with the 350 range of bow/arrow should make Rangers compelling racers, zone geometry permitting. Not to mention they can sow themselves w/o the katana.

Reacting to seeing the mob spawn through bindsight is a hell of a lot faster than responding to the pop call over voice and 350 range bows should beat 200 range clickies if there's LoS at max range.

[Gloomlord]

I should probably make a contribution to this thread, but I'm not going to rank different expansions seperately:

1. Enchanter
2. Shaman
3. Monk

These three are unquestionable. The rest are more open for debate, however:

4. Bard
5. Cleric
6. Warrior
7. Necromancer
8. Magician
9. Rogue
10. Paladin
11. Shadowknight
12. Ranger
13. Druid
14. Wizard

Paladins are the most underrated class in this game. It pains me to see them being regarded as the weakest.

[Dogz_SS]

Probably something like -

1. Cleric
2. Warrior
3. Rogue
4. Shaman
5. Enchanter
6. Monk
7. Bard
8. Druid
9. Mage
10. Wizard
11. Paladin
12. Necro
13. Ranger
14. Shadow Knight

[Gloomlord]

Probably something like -

1. Cleric
2. Warrior
3. Rogue
4. Shaman
5. Enchanter
6. Monk
7. Bard
8. Druid
9. Mage
10. Wizard
11. Paladin
12. Necro
13. Ranger
14. Shadow Knight

I take it this is more from a raiding perspective?

[Dogz_SS]

I take it this is more from a raiding perspective?

Yes! Most of my time spent playing is raids. So I guess that's my raiders perspective.

[eqravenprince]

Groups and Duos, Shaman, Cleric and Druid should be top 3. They are the start of almost any group and duo. Raids can't be done without healing. As much as people want to pump up other classes, priest classes will always be top 3 in my book.

[Sizar]

Groups and Duos, Shaman, Cleric and Druid should be top 3. They are the start of almost any group and duo. Raids can't be done without healing. As much as people want to pump up other classes, priest classes will always be top 3 in my book.

Druids heal in raids? Thought they just cast circles and PoTG then swap to a useful class after buffs are done. no?

[Encroaching Death]

I'm seeing a lot of people ranking Necro a lot lower than I would've expected.

Why? Are they really that bad?

[unsunghero]

Why? Are they really that bad?

No, it’s jealousy

[Toxigen]

#1 SK SK SK SK

[Kich867]

I'm seeing a lot of people ranking Necro a lot lower than I would've expected.

Why? Are they really that bad?

I think people can get hyper-fixated on the absolute best classes for raiding, but really all the classes are quite useful / do something useful for the raid. Necros don't have the sexiest job in the world but being a mana battery is pretty damn helpful.

I'm raiding on a wizard for the first time and I was expecting it to just be completely awful given what I had read here and in reality it was mostly fine.

[eqravenprince]

I'm raiding on a wizard for the first time and I was expecting it to just be completely awful given what I had read here and in reality it was mostly fine.

It was awful for me. Went to Vox, Naggy, Phinny raids, all belly casters. I was completely useless as wizard. If I got close enough to nuke, I was dead.

[Gloomlord]

I'm seeing a lot of people ranking Necro a lot lower than I would've expected.

Why? Are they really that bad?

They're actually a really good but balanced class. Excellent soloing that requires next to no gear, and they are a versatile group class with boatloads of utility. Their raid role is lacklustre, however.

It's more that Enchanter, Shaman and Bard are overpowered classes, and outstrip the Necromancer at his soloing, grouping and raiding capabilities.

[Keebz]

They're actually a really good but balanced class. Excellent soloing that requires next to no gear, and they are a versatile group class with boatloads of utility. Their raid role is lacklustre, however.

It's more that Enchanter, Shaman and Bard are overpowered classes, and outstrip the Necromancer at his soloing, grouping and raiding capabilities.

Woah woah woah, Necro is a fine raiding class. DA training and bone walking are high value and high skill. Twitches, corpses summons and the occasional rez are great as well.

They are a much better play maker in ToV than those other classes you listed and solid in VP. Meanwhile, Shamans, Enchanters and Bards do a lot of wall licking. A heads up Ench/Bard can do some work, though. Shaman? We have enough of those. Please log to your rogue, thanks.

[Encroaching Death]

Woah woah woah, Necro is a fine raiding class. DA training and bone walking are high value and high skill. Twitches, corpses summons and the occasional rez are great as well.

They are a much better play maker in ToV than those other classes you listed and solid in VP. Meanwhile, Shamans, Enchanters and Bards do a lot of wall licking. A heads up Ench/Bard can do some work, though. Shaman? We have enough of those. Please log to your rogue, thanks.

As a Necro looking into raiding, what is "DA training" and "bone walking"? I'm assuming the DA has something to do with Harmshield?

[Keebz]

You DA, run through a bunch of mobs in a specific direction to move them out of the way for your raid to get to a dragon to kill it. You chain DA's, namely Harmshield + Shiny Brass Idol, to make it last longer.

Bonewalking is where you bind sight on your pet, fd, duel a rogue, then use pet attack/back to follow that rogue around getting your pet in position. Once ready you stand up aggro the mob and a bunch of stuff. This can be used once again, to move shit out of the way, OR to allow someone to tag off a particular target mob.

The other thing you can do is DA engage, basically you DA, FTE the dragon, while the tanks and clerics get in position and get heals rolling.

[Zuranthium]

Groups and Duos, Shaman, Cleric and Druid should be top 3. They are the start of almost any group and duo. Raids can't be done without healing. As much as people want to pump up other classes, priest classes will always be top 3 in my book.

Druids heal in raids? Thought they just cast circles and PoTG then swap to a useful class after buffs are done. no?

Having a Druid in the fight to cast their AC/ATK debuff can do something, but yeah they are not good healers. Can still contribute by healing up some AOE damage, but it's limited. Shaman aren't ideal for that job either, Torpor reduces DPS as compared to Cleric heals.

eqraven is overrating Druids in general, they aren't a good defensive class at higher levels. Enchanters on their own are better "healers" than Druids via Rune, Slow, and superior mana regen.

Priest classes are not necessary for every Group composition and especially not Duos.

[eqravenprince]

Having a Druid in the fight to cast their AC/ATK debuff can do something, but yeah they are not good healers. Can still contribute by healing up some AOE damage, but it's limited. Shaman aren't ideal for that job either, Torpor reduces DPS as compared to Cleric heals.

eqraven is overrating Druids in general, they aren't a good defensive class at higher levels. Enchanters on their own are better "healers" than Druids via Rune, Slow, and superior mana regen.

Priest classes are not necessary for every Group composition and especially not Duos.

Superior healing does just fine in a duo. If Cleric is unavailable, Shaman and Druid are next more desired for Warrior/SK/Pal/Ranger/Monk/Rogue

[Encroaching Death]

I think people can get hyper-fixated on the absolute best classes for raiding, but really all the classes are quite useful / do something useful for the raid. Necros don't have the sexiest job in the world but being a mana battery is pretty damn helpful.

Was raiding last night and we ran into a pinch where Clerics were OOM.

Within 5 or 6 secs, they were all at 95% mana from all the twitches at once. It was pretty sweet.

[tadkins]

It was awful for me. Went to Vox, Naggy, Phinny raids, all belly casters. I was completely useless as wizard. If I got close enough to nuke, I was dead.

What do they do if you get close? Just wondering. I hope to raid on a wizard one day.

[Allishia]

As a Necro looking into raiding, what is "DA training" and "bone walking"? I'm assuming the DA has something to do with Harmshield?
Bone walk /nod
https://youtu.be/Bn7m5mgKD_E

[eqravenprince]

What do they do if you get close? Just wondering. I hope to raid on a wizard one day.

I get hit and die, period. Those who says Wizards are awesome in classic needs to educate me on how. I just don't see it.

[tadkins]

I get hit and die, period. Those who says Wizards are awesome in classic needs to educate me on how. I just don't see it.

They just like, turn to you and smack you? I figured tank aggro would be a thing.

[eqravenprince]

They just like, turn to you and smack you? I figured tank aggro would be a thing.

No, I nuke, then they turn and hit me. Or I die from aoe.

[tadkins]

No, I nuke, then they turn and hit me. Or I die from aoe.

Ahh I gotcha. Thanks for the info. The skin spells don't help at all with that?

[Zuranthium]

Superior healing does just fine in a duo.

It doesn't. Trying to face tank things with a Melee + Druid duo at higher levels will result in an extremely slow kill rate. Druid healing is too inefficient to keep up with the damage output that's happening.

If Cleric is unavailable, Shaman and Druid are next more desired for Warrior/SK/Pal/Ranger/Monk/Rogue

Druids at higher levels in these duos need to rely on snare kiting to be efficient, which is not always possible. Simply being there to snare and aggro kite is not a unique thing either. Wizards, SK's, Rangers, Necros, and Bards can all do that. Necros generally do it best because of the DPS they contribute at the same time (Druids need to have a good charm pet available to be great).

If face tanking things, Druids are inferior to an Enchanter as a duo partner for a melee class. They are also inferior to Necromancers, a class with more efficient heal-over-time capability than Druids, and again the Necromancer is simultaneously giving better DPS too, if the Druid doesn't have a good charm pet. Bards are also going to be better than a Druid in that case, because they can slow the targets, which prevents more damage than a Druid can heal, and can also create better DPS.

[eqravenprince]

It doesn't. Trying to face tank things with a Melee + Druid duo at higher levels will result in an extremely slow kill rate. Druid healing is too inefficient to keep up with the damage output that's happening.



Druids at higher levels in these duos need to rely on snare kiting to be efficient, which is not always possible. Simply being there to snare and aggro kite is not a unique thing either. Wizards, SK's, Rangers, Necros, and Bards can all do that. Necros generally do it best because of the DPS they contribute at the same time (Druids need to have a good charm pet available to be great).

If face tanking things, Druids are inferior to an Enchanter as a duo partner for a melee class. They are also inferior to Necromancers, a class with more efficient heal-over-time capability than Druids, and again the Necromancer is simultaneously giving better DPS too, if the Druid doesn't have a good charm pet. Bards are also going to be better than a Druid in that case, because they can slow the targets, which prevents more damage than a Druid can heal, and can also create better DPS.

You could be right, maybe that's why I never play 50+. I can't imagine playing a melee class and saying I wish I had a non healer as my duo partner. Seems retarded.