Give the people what they want! Luclin!

[Ankara99]

The people demand justice, they demand the Snake Temple and Fungus grove.

[Tethler]

Devs are on record that they don't consider anything past Velious to be "classic" EQ. I'd personally love to go to PoP, but the reality of the situation is that it's not going to ever happen on p99.

[Araxen]

I don't want Luclin. I quit during SoL on live.

[Malikail]

Devs are on record that they don't consider anything past Velious to be "classic" EQ. I'd personally love to go to PoP, but the reality of the situation is that it's not going to ever happen on p99.

Is that a joke? I don't really want Luclin or anything but this is the most custom server I've ever seen the only thing classic about it is the name.

[Tethler]

Is that a joke? I don't really want Luclin or anything but this is the most custom server I've ever seen the only thing classic about it is the name.

Yeah, I don't agree with everything they have chosen to do over the years either. But ultimately, it's their sandbox and they do what they want for whatever reasons they want. It's not perfect, but it checks a good portion of the boxes I look for while maintaining a stable population.

[Malikail]

Yeah, I don't agree with everything they have chosen to do over the years either. But ultimately, it's their sandbox and they do what they want for whatever reasons they want. It's not perfect, but it checks a good portion of the boxes I look for while maintaining a stable population.

I agree and while sometimes I initially don't agree with decisions they make, after I see the effects I usually get it. My 1st part about it being a joke was kind of serious I couldn't tell if you were being tongue in cheek or not.

[DMN]

pass. we are already well past our quota of giant pussies on p99.

[Jimjam]

Outstanding pun! Move thread to resolved.

[Tenloar]

While I too would want to see more expansions like SoL, PoP, LDoN LoY and such... I dont think the majority would want that? But did anyone stop and think maybe the legal agreement that was made woudn't allow them to go beyond Velious?

[Keza]

The main reasons people hate SoL is because of the graphics upgrade combined with their declining interest resulting in their eventual evacuation to WoW. I think that launched during OoW? I know that seems like a long time after but remember how quickly they chucked out Xpacs back then. I personally recall quitting EQ and just reading books until WoW came out. That was also the last time I read a book. I mean I enjoyed Mercedes Lackey's books but there's only so much time one can dedicate to entertainment and apparently Disney's dogshit is more important to me. Alright, I don't have an excuse for that one.

Anyway, SoL isn't much different from the rest of the game. It's PoP that heavily changes the game with the effective removal of druids/wizards via teleport books in every other zone, but SoL did add KeI and SoE I believe. Big mistakes, but ones that were exacerbated heavily by the PoP books resulting in easy access buff-hubs for 3 hour long remote powerlevels. Without PoP the buffs are still OP but there's not a literal economy based around buffing people. Also that could be removed by the anti-classic inability to group buff low levels. Which I'd be for. Just saying.

I'd enjoy it, but it's their emu so I can hardly complain about what the people want.

[Malikail]

While I too would want to see more expansions like SoL, PoP, LDoN LoY and such... I dont think the majority would want that? But did anyone stop and think maybe the legal agreement that was made woudn't allow them to go beyond Velious?

People labor under this myth that there's leagal agreement that maybe there is but it can't be enforced. Years ago Sony and Lucas lost the court case over Star Wars Galaxies. In essence the ruling was that they sold us the right to use the server software when they sold us the client. As long as they're not making money off of it by charging us a monthly fee they can run whatever they want of the original content and Sony or daybreak or whatever they call themselves now can't do anything about it legally and there is no reason to have an agreement.

I donated heavily to the legal fund to fight that case feel free to Google it.

[Malikail]

While I too would want to see more expansions like SoL, PoP, LDoN LoY and such... I dont think the majority would want that? But did anyone stop and think maybe the legal agreement that was made woudn't allow them to go beyond Velious?

People labor under this myth that there's legal agreement qnd maybe there is but it can't be enforced. Years ago Sony and Lucas lost the court case over Star Wars Galaxies. In essence the ruling was that they sold us the right to use the server software when they sold us the client. As long as they're not making money off of it by charging us a monthly fee they can run whatever they want of the original content and Sony or daybreak or whatever they call themselves now can't do anything about it legally and there is no reason to have an agreement.

I donated heavily to the legal fund to fight that case feel free to Google it.

[Zoolander]

The people demand justice, they demand the Snake Temple and Fungus grove.

yeah sure, after the merge

[loramin]

The people demand justice, they demand the Snake Temple and Fungus grove.

"The people" are more than welcome to code Luclin themselves.

(And, in all honesty, if someone did take the time to make a truly accurate Luclin expansion, I'd be a little surprised if the P99 team wouldn't be willing to help them turn it into a classic server, possibly even sharing precious code and database secrets. R&N may hate Luclin, but they also love accurately recreating EQ on emulated servers.)

[Ooloo]

Is that a joke? I don't really want Luclin or anything but this is the most custom server I've ever seen the only thing classic about it is the name.

Haha no it's not.

"Classic" doesn't mean "perfect iso copy of the server I played on in 1999". Classic EQ mechanics are hard to define objectively, and it's not helped by the fact they have to work around the titanium client here. They still do a very good job.

[branamil]

Literally just play TAKP. Better client and the devs are still active on the project, unlike p99

[cd288]

People labor under this myth that there's leagal agreement that maybe there is but it can't be enforced. Years ago Sony and Lucas lost the court case over Star Wars Galaxies. In essence the ruling was that they sold us the right to use the server software when they sold us the client. As long as they're not making money off of it by charging us a monthly fee they can run whatever they want of the original content and Sony or daybreak or whatever they call themselves now can't do anything about it legally and there is no reason to have an agreement.

I donated heavily to the legal fund to fight that case feel free to Google it.

The staff said there’s some sort of agreement but have never given specifics on it.

Wasn’t the ruling in that case about the literal server and client software and not the actual game IP?

[Ooloo]

The legality issue I would assume has more to do with how much more money and power Sony has. Somebody somewhere understood that this project exists purely out of love for their game, so for a company that big it's just really bad PR to shut down something like this.

Could be totally wrong but that was always the vibe I got after the whole daybreak acquisition thing.

[Graahle]

Literally just play TAKP. Better client and the devs are still active on the project, unlike p99

This. Except the general majority of the player base here doesn't actually want classic. "You think you do, but you don't" type of thing.

For example: Take away mouse wheel scrolling and watch how many people bitch and cry ad nauseam

[cd288]

The main reasons people hate SoL is because of the graphics upgrade combined with their declining interest resulting in their eventual evacuation to WoW. I think that launched during OoW? I know that seems like a long time after but remember how quickly they chucked out Xpacs back then. I personally recall quitting EQ and just reading books until WoW came out. That was also the last time I read a book. I mean I enjoyed Mercedes Lackey's books but there's only so much time one can dedicate to entertainment and apparently Disney's dogshit is more important to me. Alright, I don't have an excuse for that one.

Anyway, SoL isn't much different from the rest of the game. It's PoP that heavily changes the game with the effective removal of druids/wizards via teleport books in every other zone, but SoL did add KeI and SoE I believe. Big mistakes, but ones that were exacerbated heavily by the PoP books resulting in easy access buff-hubs for 3 hour long remote powerlevels. Without PoP the buffs are still OP but there's not a literal economy based around buffing people. Also that could be removed by the anti-classic inability to group buff low levels. Which I'd be for. Just saying.

I'd enjoy it, but it's their emu so I can hardly complain about what the people want.

I mean Luclin basically did something very similar to PoK, PoK just made it instant teleports instead of having to wait at a wizard spire for a periodic teleport. But it still made Druids and Wizard ports mostly obsolete. The Bazaar was also a terrible addition. Plus Paludal Caverns making every other newbie zone obsolete.

I would be open to the addition of SoL AAs and PoP raids, but beyond that those two expansions sucked.

[cd288]

The legality issue I would assume has more to do with how much more money and power Sony has. Somebody somewhere understood that this project exists purely out of love for their game, so for a company that big it's just really bad PR to shut down something like this.

Could be totally wrong but that was always the vibe I got after the whole daybreak acquisition thing.

I mean yeah definitely. It's a cost benefit analysis. The amount of people playing on P99 isn't going to make a material impact on your revenue if you're Daybreak (or whoever now acquired Daybreak). So it's bad PR for little benefit, and there's always the chance that P99 introduces someone to/back into EQ and makes them go try the TLPs so you get customers you maybe otherwise wouldn't have gotten (so free advertising basically).

Would be interesting to see what would happen if P99 suddenly got like several thousand people playing. I think you'd suddenly see the EQ owners being a lot less willing to allow P99 to exist. It's their IP so they could easily shut this down unless they signed a legal agreement saying they never would no matter what.

This. Except the general majority of the player base here doesn't actually want classic. "You think you do, but you don't" type of thing.

For example: Take away mouse wheel scrolling and watch how many people bitch and cry ad nauseam

Meh don't think people would really complain. You can essentially get the same affect as mouse wheel scrolling by using some view keys: take the view from behind your character and use keys to zoom out and tilt the camera up or down and boom there you go. And I believe this was doable in classic too, people just didn't because up to that point you didn't really have these third person view games, most were first person, so people just didn't think to do it.

[Ooloo]

I will admit that if the client was locked to 1024x768 max res with no widescreen option (even though titanium widescreen just chops the top and bottom off and there's like no vertical realestate, I can pretend) I'd be pretty bummed, even though it would certainly be classic.

Not many things like that for me though, classic 4 lyfe

[Mazoku]

Join TAK if you want Luclin etc. Otherwise NO!

[Keza]

I mean Luclin basically did something very similar to PoK, PoK just made it instant teleports instead of having to wait at a wizard spire for a periodic teleport. But it still made Druids and Wizard ports mostly obsolete. The Bazaar was also a terrible addition. Plus Paludal Caverns making every other newbie zone obsolete.

I would be open to the addition of SoL AAs and PoP raids, but beyond that those two expansions sucked.

Dru/Wiz were technically obsolete as soon as PoH/S became obsolete due to the classes being trash, but the convenience of PoP outperformed Dial-A-Port and the Nexus by an amount indescribable by human language.

I mentioned Bazaar in my edit which you didn't see because I immediately removed it due to not wanting to start a flamefest but frankly the Bazaar was an irrelevant non-problem. It's for the people who are really into NFTs and think being a gypsy is important to their life. For everyone else (99.99% of humans) they just want to sell the shit they happened to collect. They can still auction if they want to. The Bazaar centralized something that was otherwise decentralized and offered people who didn't want to haggle prices a way to not haggle prices. Any complaints are subjective.

I'm not sure PC is worth mentioning. It's a typical anomoly, if that makes any sense. Should Crushbone or Unrest be nerfed? Eh. Aren't they all OPAF? You can PL the shit out of someone in Uguk. Shouldn't it be nerfed? Many zones are OP. I can't attest to the quality of SoL because my computer was shit. I liked PoP though. If surface level evaluations of the xpacs are all we're doing then I guess that's it. I liked it.

[Graahle]

Great post. Bazaar is great; tunnel quest was never good.

[cd288]

Dru/Wiz were technically obsolete as soon as PoH/S became obsolete due to the classes being trash, but the convenience of PoP outperformed Dial-A-Port and the Nexus by an amount indescribable by human language.

I mentioned Bazaar in my edit which you didn't see because I immediately removed it due to not wanting to start a flamefest but frankly the Bazaar was an irrelevant non-problem. It's for the people who are really into NFTs and think being a gypsy is important to their life. For everyone else (99.99% of humans) they just want to sell the shit they happened to collect. They can still auction if they want to. The Bazaar centralized something that was otherwise decentralized and offered people who didn't want to haggle prices a way to not haggle prices. Any complaints are subjective.

I'm not sure PC is worth mentioning. It's a typical anomoly, if that makes any sense. Should Crushbone or Unrest be nerfed? Eh. Aren't they all OPAF? You can PL the shit out of someone in Uguk. Shouldn't it be nerfed? Many zones are OP. I can't attest to the quality of SoL because my computer was shit. I liked PoP though. If surface level evaluations of the xpacs are all we're doing then I guess that's it. I liked it.

None of those zones are anywhere analogous to PC. PC you can basically PL yourself to like level 20; it's the antithesis of EQ. Sure, you can get PLed through those levels elsewhere, but you have to get someone to do it; you have to interact with people.

Bazaar is shitty because progression in EQ is usually about sacrificing progression in some other aspect of the game (at least pre-60). Sure, there are some camps that are good for XP and plat at the same time, but not a massive amount. So you want to sell that loot you have for max value? Then go sit there and auction it; or if you don't want to spend much time selling then sell it as a discount and get out of there as quick as you can and get back to XPing. I liked that a lot of the time classic EQ required you to make choices about what you wanted to prioritize in the game that day. The other thing I didn't like about the Bazaar was the removal of player created auction hubs; it was awesome how people on different servers just organically created a hub (commonly EC, but sometimes GFay, NFP, etc.). I like that sort of world shaping choice being made by players, not designers who decided "here's a centralized auction zone for everyone that can be reached super easily with little effort by the player."

PoK was one of the worst things to happen to the game (I think the Nexus was terrible also). One of the things that makes classic EQ feel more immersive is the feeling of the world being large. The smaller you make the world feel via PoK and the Nexus, the less fun and immersive the world becomes.

[Chortles Snortles]

^^this guy gets it

[ThonDaMan]

Luclin was the beginning of the end of what made EQ great, like cd288 said the bazaar killed the tunnel, PC was stupid, AA turned a long grind into an infinite one.

PoK in PoP destroyed the world, where you can just click to travel instead of running somewhere or calling in a ride - that you still had to run to the spires / ring to meet your uber.

Just awful all around, and the people clamoring for it here can get bent and play TLP.

[Jhadree J'Hadaan]

Just awful all around, and the people clamoring for it here can get bent and play TLP.

Couldn't have said it better myself. People need to accept P99 for what it is and quit suggesting stupid shit, along with every jackass that suggests that moving to the Red server will cure all of your ailments.

[Jimjam]

Couldn't have said it better myself. People need to accept P99 for what it is and quit suggesting stupid shit, along with every jackass that suggests that moving to the Red server will cure all of your ailments.

Consider handing in book of discord on TAKP

[Keza]

None of those zones are anywhere analogous to PC. PC you can basically PL yourself to like level 20; it's the antithesis of EQ. Sure, you can get PLed through those levels elsewhere, but you have to get someone to do it; you have to interact with people.

Bazaar is shitty because progression in EQ is usually about sacrificing progression in some other aspect of the game (at least pre-60). Sure, there are some camps that are good for XP and plat at the same time, but not a massive amount. So you want to sell that loot you have for max value? Then go sit there and auction it; or if you don't want to spend much time selling then sell it as a discount and get out of there as quick as you can and get back to XPing. I liked that a lot of the time classic EQ required you to make choices about what you wanted to prioritize in the game that day. The other thing I didn't like about the Bazaar was the removal of player created auction hubs; it was awesome how people on different servers just organically created a hub (commonly EC, but sometimes GFay, NFP, etc.). I like that sort of world shaping choice being made by players, not designers who decided "here's a centralized auction zone for everyone that can be reached super easily with little effort by the player."

PoK was one of the worst things to happen to the game (I think the Nexus was terrible also, despite it still requiring a dru/wiz to quickly access). One of the things that makes classic EQ feel more immersive is the feeling of the world being large. The smaller you make the world feel via PoK and the Nexus, the less fun and immersive the world becomes.

You make it sound like it's simple to PL yourself to 20. Maybe it is depending on perspective. I PL'd my own Ench to 16 with DF belts; years prior to SoL mind you. Slight different though when you don't need another human. I was PL'd in PC many times on live, which I didn't do it by myself. PC is bullshit because of poor balance in regards to classes that can PL being OP at PL'ing, not explicitly because PC itself is bullshit. Two different things, and I'm not against un-classic changes. That said, the Nexus was actually a boon for Dru/Wiz as it gave them a purpose otherwsie unneeded. You needed to visit the spires to go to Nexus. When PoK came along that purpose was removed because every other zone had a book.

The argument about Bazaar is equivalent to spending time doing nothing. Is it a good thing that you have to spend your actual life auctioning your gear in a fictional game? No. I don't think so. Is it meaningful to spend your time spamming shift+^? Not really, but The Bazaar, while not social, offers you the opportunity to not waste your actual real-life life in which you will die and that will be the end. I love the EC tunnel as much as anybody, despite it effectively being EQ's asshole. I love the social aspect of MMOs. I love democracy. /lightsaber. But there's a realistic limit in which you can expect someone to waste their time. Why do they need to be sitting at the keyboard in order to make a sale? Sales aside, why should your consumers be terrified of trainers pulling air elementals, griffons or Snape himelf to the tunnel? It's pretty to look at objectively, but ugly to look at subjectively.

I like MMOs being social experiences, and by that definition I technically hate the Bazaar, but I'm also incredibly drunk during both of these responses and can't find a reason for why "classic" mechanics can't be slightly changed to benefit everyone. I reread this once or twice but so drunk. Gave up. Sorry.

[ThonDaMan]

You've ruined your own MMO's, you'll not ruin mine!

[ya.dingus]

I didnt like luclin +. Only cool thing was beastlord. However, if you want to play luclin, why not play a TLP server that's locked at luclin?

[khandman]

Luclin was like the 1969 moon landings.

Went there. Tried it. Was novel for a short while. Never went back again.

[Trexller]

The people demand justice, they demand the Snake Temple and Fungus grove.

https://www.takproject.net/forums/index.php

remember raiding in PoP? its the best raiding experience second only to kunark.

its up and running, the MGBs fall like rain in PoK, and the serverwide channel is always inundated with "Free "X"item at small bank, or, "Item "Y" rotting in umbral plains, 27 min on corpse"

You will also find single boxers LFG on the regular, start your own PUGs, make some cool friends, and make Aten Ha Ra wish she never listened to that bitch of a sorceress, Luclin.

[Worry]

https://www.takproject.net/forums/index.php

remember raiding in PoP? its the best raiding experience second only to kunark.

its up and running, the MGBs fall like rain in PoK, and the serverwide channel is always inundated with "Free "X"item at small bank, or, "Item "Y" rotting in umbral plains, 27 min on corpse"

You will also find single boxers LFG on the regular, start your own PUGs, make some cool friends, and make Aten Ha Ra wish she never listened to that bitch of a sorceress, Luclin. I'd play TAKP if I didn't have to get another client of EQ. Fuck all that noise.

But I heard it's a pretty solid server now.

[Faxi]

P99 should end in Planes of Power. PoP is the logical end of Classic EQ. this is a fact. fact lore wise, fact gameplay wise. Stopping in Velious is poop.

[Jimjam]

Stopping in Velious makes sense. Wake the sleeper and he goes on a murderous rampage, getting revenge on his captors then forming an army to bring an apocalyptic tyranny to Norrath.

[Daffan]

None of those zones are anywhere analogous to PC. PC you can basically PL yourself to like level 20; it's the antithesis of EQ. Sure, you can get PLed through those levels elsewhere, but you have to get someone to do it; you have to interact with people.

Bazaar is shitty because progression in EQ is usually about sacrificing progression in some other aspect of the game (at least pre-60). Sure, there are some camps that are good for XP and plat at the same time, but not a massive amount. So you want to sell that loot you have for max value? Then go sit there and auction it; or if you don't want to spend much time selling then sell it as a discount and get out of there as quick as you can and get back to XPing. I liked that a lot of the time classic EQ required you to make choices about what you wanted to prioritize in the game that day. The other thing I didn't like about the Bazaar was the removal of player created auction hubs; it was awesome how people on different servers just organically created a hub (commonly EC, but sometimes GFay, NFP, etc.). I like that sort of world shaping choice being made by players, not designers who decided "here's a centralized auction zone for everyone that can be reached super easily with little effort by the player."

PoK was one of the worst things to happen to the game (I think the Nexus was terrible also). One of the things that makes classic EQ feel more immersive is the feeling of the world being large. The smaller you make the world feel via PoK and the Nexus, the less fun and immersive the world becomes.

There is a simple solution to your PoK problem.

Custom Fixes.

But, instead of having the ultimate EQ+ experience (not implying PoP is btw, more a generic statement) that is possible, instead play an attempted 1:1 re-creation for sake of "nostalgia" or purity whatever that isn't even true in 2022 anyway.