most underpowered group class in the game

[eqravenprince]

Since the other thread has been hijacked mostly by people who only think raiding matters, what is the most underpowered group class in the game? I'm going to vote Wizard. What do they offer, shitty sustained dps, ghetto cc with root, and ability to port group out. Once every 5 minutes, they can blow their mana stack to kill a single mob which is useful almost never. Warrior is next most underpowered, they are supposed to hold aggro with the least amount of tools to actually do their job. If they die without a cleric, they have the least ability to get back to their corpse, no invis, no sow, no heals.

[Tunabros]

eq is literally about raiding

sorry the bad man took your pixels

hope this helps

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I don't believe it was hijacked. You didn't specify what situation (solo/group/raid), and raiding is a part of the consideration when asking the general question of which class is the most underpowered overall.

For the specific topic of grouping, I would say there are two answers.

1. Wizard on P99 is the worst grouping class simply due to the stigma against Wizards. Wizards are fine in groups, but because most people think Wizards are bad in groups, the stigma will prevent you from getting groups more than any other class.

2. From a game mechanic standpoint, I would say Ranger/Druid are the worst grouping classes, simply because much of their utility is restricted to outdoor-only zones. A Wizard would overall bring more to the table in a dungeon crawling group than a Druid, unless you really can't find a proper healer. And a Shadowknight/Paladin would obviously be better than a Ranger in a Dungeon. Basically Wizard/Shadowknight/Paladin can work well in either indoor or outdoor scenarios, where Ranger/Druid are typically worse in Dungeons. This means Ranger/Druid should have a harder time finding groups in dungeons, whereas Wizards/Shadowknights/Paladins wouldn't have problems finding groups indoors or outdoors. Only really exception here is something like a Druid in Siren's Grotto, due to it being an animal heavy dungeon. But Sirens Grotto is a very abnormal zone overall.

[Tunabros]

ranger has harmony, snares, and mini heals

hope this heps

[Jibartik]

nah wizards are the NPC you're escorting.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

ranger has harmony, snares, and mini heals

hope this heps

Harmony only works outdoors. Paladins can lull indoors and outdoors, heal, and res. Generally speaking you don't need snares in a group. Just root and destroy. And if you do need snares, you bring a Shadowknight, who can also FD pull, which takes the place of lulling when pulling.

[Jibartik]

If ranger had some long cast single target DD's that played the shooting an arrow animation when they cast it, doing big DPS, I think they would be a completely fixed class.

[eqravenprince]

eq is literally about raiding

sorry the bad man took your pixels

hope this helps

How narrow minded. No surprise coming from you. Hope this helps

[Tunabros]

mad

hope this helps

[Danth]

I agree raiding is a pretty lousy mode of gameplay. I've never much liked it and doubt I ever will. The strength of these types of games is always in the group gameplay.

I rate wizards as the absolute worst for normal grind-style grouping on P99. It does very little a druid can't also do. Precious few groups on P99 care about the difference in their damage per hour--in either case everyone knows it's relatively low. I've only rarely seen groups need a wizard's stuns, and a druid has some interrupts of its own anyhow. Meanwhile the druid can do a lot of things the wizard can't even think about, including cover for healing if the cleric goes afk/leaves or provide some useful buffs that might not otherwise be available.

Rangers might not be optimal in a full 6 man group due to the usual "hybriditis" problem, but since damage always stacks and they do at least middle-range damage they're never going to be worst since they can always contribute usefully. That's also a saving grace for warriors. They're mediocre tanks for grind groups and otherwise don't bring much beyond their autoswing but their autoswing is pretty good, a lot better than they usually get credit for.

All of the multi-role classes fare better in less-than-full groups. As always, the more folks present, the more likely it is for all jobs to be covered by specialists. I'd much rather add a ranger or even a paladin than a rogue in to my shadowknight/shaman duo I do with the wife except where lockpick is needed. In a 6 man group the rogue will almost always be preferred.

Danth

[eqravenprince]

I agree raiding is a pretty lousy mode of gameplay. I've never much liked it and doubt I ever will. The strength of these types of games is always in the group gameplay.

I rate wizards as the absolute worst for normal grind-style grouping on P99. It does very little a druid can't also do. Precious few groups on P99 care about the difference in their damage per hour--in either case everyone knows it's relatively low. I've only rarely seen groups need a wizard's stuns, and a druid has some interrupts of its own anyhow. Meanwhile the druid can do a lot of things the wizard can't even think about, including cover for healing if the cleric goes afk/leaves or provide some useful buffs that might not otherwise be available.

Rangers might not be optimal in a full 6 man group due to the usual "hybriditis" problem, but since damage always stacks and they do at least middle-range damage they're never going to be worst since they can always contribute usefully. That's also a saving grace for warriors. They're mediocre tanks for grind groups and otherwise don't bring much beyond their autoswing but their autoswing is pretty good, a lot better than they usually get credit for.

All of the multi-role classes fare better in less-than-full groups. As always, the more folks present, the more likely it is for all jobs to be covered by specialists. I'd much rather add a ranger or even a paladin than a rogue in to my shadowknight/shaman duo I do with the wife except where lockpick is needed. In a 6 man group the rogue will almost always be preferred.

Danth

Now here's a guy who makes sense!

[Jimjam]

Root is the best spell in game. Wizards get it earliest. Wizards best group class.

[Jibartik]

wizards being active in a group is contrary to the entire book idea, because it trains them to just not even be involved in the fight until they are ready to DPS

the problem is they should have had clarity instead of enchanter.

[eqravenprince]

wizards being active in a group is contrary to the entire book idea, because it trains them to just not even be involved in the fight until they are ready to DPS

the problem is they should have had clarity instead of enchanter.

It'd be nice if they had the ability to buff melee with extra magic damage from their weapons.

[Jibartik]

That's a great idea. A level 4 spell that just made rusty weapons magic would have been so rad.

[sajbert]

Wizard without VP clicky robe is pretty miserable. With it passable sustain in addition to best burst together with evac and stuns and root. A lot less squishy than other casters too with epic.

[dareo]

Enchanter. No real pet and the charm pet makes it impossible to AFK. Charm breaks drain all the healer mana. Mez is nice but wont last when your pickup group cant target properly. Sure clarity and charm dps is nice but what do you do after you cleared all the mobs so fast? Encs should just stick to solo. Shaman slow is vastly better by a few % anyway.

[MrSparkle001]

It'd be nice if they had the ability to buff melee with extra magic damage from their weapons.

That's something an enchanter should have been able to do. Literally enchanting weapons and armor, right? Not sure where that would leave magicians and their gear summoning though.

Wizards get crack and magical DPS, enchanters get mez, charm and gear enchanting. Why was it not done this way...

[Danth]

Why was it not done this way...

For a pretty understandable reason, actually:

Enchanters didn't have clarity, either, at first. Out the gate when EQ was brand new, groups didn't chain-pull and killsteal was a real problem. Wizards actually fared okay in that environment. Meanwhile not too many folks were playing with charm yet and the enchanter was commonly regarded as one of if not the worst class in the game. Hence a few months later it got the band-aid.

Danth

[eqravenprince]

For a pretty understandable reason, actually:

Enchanters didn't have clarity, either, at first. Out the gate when EQ was brand new, groups didn't chain-pull and killsteal was a real problem. Wizards actually fared okay in that environment. Meanwhile not too many folks were playing with charm yet and the enchanter was commonly regarded as one of if not the worst class in the game. Hence a few months later it got the band-aid.

Danth

I remember this like yesterday. People complaining about wizard kill stealing. I even thought Enchanters were weak back in the day. I need a time machine, sadly I'd use it to play EQ.

[Tethler]

A bard that only sits in camp singing 1 song

[DMN]

eq is literally about raiding

sorry the bad man took your pixels

hope this helps

Well this certainly explains why youve become such a cynical grump of a poster.

[Keza]

Soooo you decided to make a slightly more specific dupe thread because people disagreed with you in the other? Simply stating "XP group" doesn't make me prefer rangers and warriors though.

I'd still prefer someone who can evac or speed up a corpse run if I'm dungeon-diving with an inexperienced, unoptimal or poorly geared group. Unsurprisingly the answer is contextual to the circumstance, but I'd certainly feel safer in such groups with a wizard. Even before evac levels they are far more effective at finishing healers/runners/gaters in dungeons than RNG/WAR. Even if that's their only use in a fight, it's useful for bad groups. Rangers can stop runners and warriors can pray for a bash stun but safe>sorry when you're balls deep in solA wearing banded against goblins that nuke for 100-200. Wizards can just delete the NPC wizard and spare the healer loads of mana. This will equate to more pulls in the long run unless you have a consistent stunner, which you won't at low levels.

Outside of dungeons anything is viable. Wizards can solo more effectively outdoors than many classes, so here it's the contrived restriction of forcing a group upon people who are outdoors. Wizard is the worst in that specific scenario, I guess.

[eqravenprince]

Soooo you decided to make a slightly more specific dupe thread because people disagreed with you in the other?

What's wrong with being specific. Last thread devolved into all the raid meatheads when it was a general question to begin with.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

What's wrong with being specific. Last thread devolved into all the raid meatheads when it was a general question to begin with.

You should be specific, I agree. The more specific the question, the easier it is to get the answer you are looking for.

I think the pushback is coming from the fact that you are blaming people for taking raiding into account. Calling them "raid meatheads" is unnecessary.

It is your fault for asking the question without parameters initially. If you are just asking "most underpowered in general", that encompasses all parts of the game (solo/group/raid).

If you didn't want input on raiding, you need to specify that initially. Otherwise, people will bring it up, and they can't be blamed for that.

[Toxigen]

1-59 wizard

60 mage

there, op's tits are calmed

[eqravenprince]

You should be specific, I agree. The more specific the question, the easier it is to get the answer you are looking for.

I think the pushback is coming from the fact that you are blaming people for taking raiding into account. Calling them "raid meatheads" is unnecessary.

It is your fault for asking the question without parameters initially. If you are just asking "most underpowered in general", that encompasses all parts of the game (solo/group/raid).

If you didn't want input on raiding, you need to specify that initially. Otherwise, people will bring it up, and they can't be blamed for that.

Never asked that question initially. Go look at the other post, someone else was the originally poster. I just found it annoying that so many posters only took raiding power into account on a general question. So I went and created this post.

[eqravenprince]

1-59 wizard

60 mage

there, op's tits are calmed

Haha, I'm calm, and I like tits calm or not =)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Never asked that question initially. Go look at the other post, someone else was the originally poster. I just found it annoying that so many posters only took raiding power into account on a general question. So I went and created this post.

Ah! Yes I apologize, for some reason I thought you created the other one too.

[Selene]

god the level of hate for mages that toxigen has is impressive!

not sure how mages are the worst in grouping at 60

[PlsNoBan]

not sure how mages are the worst in grouping at 60

They aren't. People be cray.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

god the level of hate for mages that toxigen has is impressive!

not sure how mages are the worst in grouping at 60

It is not hate, it is analysis. In any asymmetrical game, there are better classes than others. No one is saying Mages can't group at 60.

The problem is Mages just bring the least to the table at 60 compared to other classes. They have very little CC, and level 60's aren't going to be using most summoned items in a group scenario. CoTH is also generally not needed in grouping. So basically they are just a DPS class, and other classes can DPS better, such as Monk or Rogue.

Sadly a Mage's toolkit is at it's best when the population on the server has little knowledge of the game. That makes their item summoning utility very useful, as people aren't very good at finding merchants or adjusting faction. The more knowledge a server gains about the game, the less utility a Mage's summoning has, which is a big chunk of their kit. And unfortunately bad pathing prevents Mage's from being able to use their pets in many situations, which is another big chunk of their kit. It is much safer to bring a DPS class controlled by a player, instead of using a Mage's pet and hoping it doesn't agro a bunch of stuff through the floor/wall.

[Selene]

It is not hate, it is analysis. In any asymmetrical game, there are better classes than others. No one is saying Mages can't group at 60.

The problem is Mages just bring the least to the table at 60 compared to other classes. They have very little CC, and level 60's aren't going to be using most summoned items in a group scenario. CoTH is also generally not needed in grouping. So basically they are just a DPS class, and other classes can DPS better, such as Monk or Rogue.

Sadly a Mage's toolkit is at it's best when the population on the server has little knowledge of the game. That makes their item summoning utility very useful, as people aren't very good at finding merchants or adjusting faction. The more knowledge a server gains about the game, the less utility a Mage's summoning has, which is a big chunk of their kit. And unfortunately bad pathing prevents Mage's from being able to use their pets in many situations, which is another big chunk of their kit. It is much safer to bring a DPS class controlled by a player, instead of using a Mage's pet and hoping it doesn't agro a bunch of stuff through the floor/wall.


you make a lot of interesting and valid points about many aspects of the game and even on mages, in the other thread. but i don't think you're considering what i'm saying, so i feel like i'm repeating myself here lol

Toxigen said mages are the WORST class at 60 for grouping. A class that is in the same tier more or less as rogue or monk for sustained DPS can't possibly be in that discussion, pet pathing or not.

a mage's pet with muzzle + burnout does considerable damage (consistent too, unlike those annoying series of misses that occur with any melee class); a water pet can do a mini backstab as well, plus its proc spell. Add a 33 point damage shield, and the mana-free nukes of 333 or 600 depending on whether you have the chardok staff or the velks boots, and its clear mages are in the top tier of DPS in a group. this without even considering the spells I can cast with mana, upwards of 1k in burst damage per spell.

the pathing issue is annoying, i agree, but in most group situations the mobs are being pulled to the group, which stays at a home base. even if you do move around, its not too difficult to just reclaim + resummon as necessary (we chain summon frequently enough at the high end anyway).

besides, it's nice having a disposable tank that can distract an add if necessary and die in the process, nbd.

COTH and summoning items don't mean as much in group settings, true, but simply having a disposable tank and the sustained dps of the mage + pet should argue against it being considered a weak group class at all. in fact, its one of the best DPS classes....

malo line is just icing on the cake. are we a narrow class with a limited toolkit? sure. but that's the way we were designed, as the spell-casting equivalent of a rogue. i prefer the self-sufficiency of the mage though over a rogue

[eunomios]

Worst class for grouping is situational, depending on what classes, camps, gear, and overall players (2-6) are available. The GOAL of the group is also very important in forming this opinion: DPS racing a single mob, grinding mobs for exp, hunting PHs for a quest drop, roleplay/friendship/challenges etc... To be specific about all situations and conditions would result in pages of text; So I will assume this thread is about a PUG in an established exp camp intending to max at 6 players. Wizard and Druid are the worst classes for this situation and are only worth inviting if there is no other Healer or no animals to charm (Druid), no other CC (Root/Snare/Harmony), or no other players to fill the 6th slot. All other classes DPS Leagues better, and Shaman/Cleric provide so much more as a healer. It could be argued that leaving the 6th slot open incase a different class shows up is better than inviting a Wizard/Druid.

[eunomios]

So basically they are just a DPS class, and other classes can DPS better, such as Monk or Rogue.

DS, proper pet control, utilizing DD spells melee procs/clicks, Malo line for the charm pet which is the center of any Min/Max group... I think you are mistaken. EDIT: Earth pet can allow a Warrior/Monk or any class really to proximity tank and focus their gear choices on DPS exclusively.

There's a reason Cleric Enchanter Mage is one of the Best Grind Trios in EQ up to PoP.

[Fammaden]

So when you say "grouping" I'm going to assume you mean the traditional six-man experience group. Not a duo or a trio, or even a four man group, an XP group that seeks to fill to six players and grind straight xp as the goal.

For a full XP group the goal is always chain pulling. You always want a mob dying in camp non stop as much as possible. This was true in the year 2000 and its still true today.

The reason wizards have long been called the worst group class is because they are the most inefficient class for accomplishing the chain killing goal. A pure dps class that has built in downtime based around burst damage just loses out to any class who can sustain dps without downtime from one mob to the next.

As far as utility there is literally nothing a wizard can do that another class can't do as well or better, and many times can fill the role with a wider range of utility tools than a wizard. Druid is a close second worst group class due to being so wildly inefficient compared to clerics and shamans. But overall a druid can offer everything a wizard can plus significant extra utility potential, especially in outdoor xp zones and yes there are lots of popular outdoor flagged group xp spots at any given time.

Another thing that was as true in 2000 as it is today is that there's never any shortage of people who want to stand up and defend the wizard as a grouping class. But no matter the rationalizations, the wizard by design can never really carry its weight effectively in a chain pulling full XP group. This doesn't mean they can't contribute anything to a group theoretically or that no one should ever invite them. But they are the worst class for a six man XP group and its not close.

DSM is right, its an asymmetrical game, not all classes were created equal. The other thread was more interesting for the most part because the answer to this question is long past settled, expect for the white knight grouping wizard apologists.

[Keza]

What's wrong with being specific. Last thread devolved into all the raid meatheads when it was a general question to begin with.

A general question yet your problem with it is that it "devolved" into specific aspects of the game that are pertinent to the point asked by the thread. In other words, you disagreed so you made a different thread that portrayed your specific view in a better light.

It wasn't even your thread (or maybe it was as it's a general bait post) and you made a dupe thread claiming the other was hijacked, devolved and everyone is wrong about how they play the game. If you aren't going to debate the point you're just looking for people to agree with you.

[eunomios]

white knight grouping wizard apologists.

I mean... to be fair an enchanter cleric wizard AE group is de facto the fastest way to earn exp in EQ from classic to whenever the Devs nerf it.

But for a general PuG... wizards should just know they are leeching.

[Fammaden]

Yeah I wasn't counting the AE group, I was assuming generally PuG groups as well, and even back in the old days those were generally premade and/or guild groups.

[eqravenprince]

A general question yet your problem with it is that it "devolved" into specific aspects of the game that are pertinent to the point asked by the thread. In other words, you disagreed so you made a different thread that portrayed your specific view in a better light.

It wasn't even your thread (or maybe it was as it's a general bait post) and you made a dupe thread claiming the other was hijacked, devolved and everyone is wrong about how they play the game. If you aren't going to debate the point you're just looking for people to agree with you.

I only wanted to read people's opinion about group game, it's as simple as that. And yeah, I insulted certain type of people who think EQ is only about raiding. Raiding sucks, and plenty of people could care less about it. As for debating, I have been when I have time to post. No one has really said anything to change my mind about wizards being the most underpowered group class and warriors being 2nd most underpowered. Wizard it's obvious, they have zero sustained DPS, can't heal, can't debuff, can't buff, have burst damage and root which many classes have. As for Warrior, SK and Pally tank better which is the primary purpose, and you really only need 1 tank, that leaves DPS which Warrior is behind many classes in that department.

[Fammaden]

No one has really said anything to change my mind about wizards being the most underpowered group class and warriors being 2nd most underpowered. Wizard it's obvious, they have zero sustained DPS, can't heal, can't debuff, can't buff, have burst damage and root which many classes have. As for Warrior, SK and Pally tank better which is the primary purpose, and you really only need 1 tank, that leaves DPS which Warrior is behind many classes in that department.

The thing about tanks though is groups often find themselves wanting/needing one, even though each group only needs one. So some days as a warrior you'll be stuck LFG but many days you'll get fast invites, especially if you even have a little bit of decent gear/weapons and aren't completely afkterrible as a player.

And as long as someone roots shit warriors are better meatshields anyway. So unlike druids and wizards you'll actually get quite a lot of group invites as a warrior, making them a significantly more powerful PuG class overall even if their aggro/pull toolkit is lacking compared to knights.

[eqravenprince]

The thing about tanks though is groups often find themselves wanting/needing one, even though each group only needs one. So some days as a warrior you'll be stuck LFG but many days you'll get fast invites, especially if you even have a little bit of decent gear/weapons and aren't completely afkterrible as a player.

And as long as someone roots shit warriors are better meatshields anyway. So unlike druids and wizards you'll actually get quite a lot of group invites as a warrior, making them a significantly more powerful PuG class overall even if their aggro/pull toolkit is lacking compared to knights.

If you already have a healer, then yeah, adding a Druid is worse than Warrior. I will admit that. However, because Druids can do multiple things, they are fantastic to have in a pick up group just due to that flexibility. Yes, you could get a bit more DPS without the Druid, but keeping the group rolling when people leave is more important.

[eunomios]

that leaves DPS which Warrior is behind many classes in that department.

Warrior in beserker rage is broken/OP when done right. Crits do trail off a bit at higher levels when mob AC starts to advance. A warrior in a high level XP group is a rep tank when the current Tank has to afk or log out. Being able to use Defensive Disc once in awhile to let healers med a bit or when shit hits the fan is very very nice also. If parsed I think it would open a lot of eyes. The higher skill caps and potential Crits do translate well to compete with Monk Kicks and Rogue Backstabs.... and ofc the warrior can tank when needed better than a rogue anyway.

Everyone loves Paladins and Shadowknights but if I had to form a min/max group the tank would be a Warrior and 30 mana would be spent to root the main assist mob, or there'd be a mage earth pet because Warriors do much better dmg. basicly... pull mob, root mob, warrior taunts and every1 goes ham. By the 20s 3 med ticks covers a root, and even less once clarity is avail, Earth pets are freee. A good DPS group doesn't care about mobs turning at low health with snare to save on taking dmg bc shit goes 15pct to 0 in no time - Also Dmg shields. Hybrid tanks that have to pull can't med and need break prior to clarity.

AND Warriors HAVE NO EXP PENALTY for the chucnk of classic EQ that Hybrid tanks do !

[socialist]

I've always found the root-tanking strategy to be junk unless it's an all-melee group with no DD procs on their weapons. In most organic group setups, root on the main target will last five seconds tops as all the various forms of DDs each has a good chance to break it. Anything from necro/mage pets to weapon procs will ensure that root is a shortlived affair unless you specifically have a group full of epic rogues or some shit. It's one of those things that work in theory but usually don't work in practice. Making your group's entire tanking strategy rely wholly on keeping every single mob rooted for the entirety of every fight throughout a whole grinding session is such a hassle.

[eisley]

I've always found the root-tanking strategy to be junk unless it's an all-melee group with no DD procs on their weapons. In most organic group setups, root on the main target will last five seconds tops as all the various forms of DDs each has a good chance to break it. Anything from necro/mage pets to weapon procs will ensure that root is a shortlived affair unless you specifically have a group full of epic rogues or some shit. It's one of those things that work in theory but usually don't work in practice. Making your group's entire tanking strategy rely wholly on keeping every single mob rooted for the entirety of every fight throughout a whole grinding session is such a hassle.

another 30 mana root or 35 mana stun can handle these situations pretty well. though i don't see breaks as often as you do, it does highly depend on group.

[Cen]

While I think Druids and Wizards are both fantastic classes, in small group play, they are a little more ineffective, though never useless.

I bet some folks might think Necro's aren't too amazing in parties but I think the pet DPS in conjunction with the support battery abilities push it way higher then a lot consider. If a cleric is present, its better then a second cleric because of the pet DPS added in.

[Bardp1999]

Necros dont get really good at healing until 54 so people forget or don't know that they are actually probably the best secondary healer in the game for the 54-60 grind.

Hell, in some situations they are better than a Cleric because of the other utility. I main heal as a Necro often

[Jimjam]

Necros dont get really good at healing until 54 so people forget or don't know that they are actually probably the best secondary healer in the game for the 54-60 grind.

Hell, in some situations they are better than a Cleric because of the other utility. I main heal as a Necro often

55+ ranger with swiftwind / cloak of the dark skies and 55+ Necromancer is just such a balls to the wall cornerstone to a grind group. It’s like having 3 dps toons, heals, pulls and cc all covered in just 2 slots.

Chloroplast and skin like nature stack so well with necromancer. Shadowbond is great for keeping the ranger alive.

Highlevel rng/nec are eq’s odd couple - complete opposites that compliment each other perfectly.

Just for this synergy I find it difficult to declare either as most underpowered group class - even if the ranger admittedly has a bit of a difficult stretch high 40s / low 50s, particularly if it isn’t geared up yet.

[Danth]

Just for this synergy I find it difficult to declare either as most underpowered group class - even if the ranger admittedly has a bit of a difficult stretch high 40s / low 50s, particularly if it isn’t geared up yet.

While I don't put it at the bottom, if a ranger needs raid loot to desirable for a regular mid 50's experience group, that's hardly a ringing endorsement. Any character's good when it overgears the content. The ranger, specifically, is probably at its best in smaller-than-full groups where its versatile nature is most likely to make an impact.

Danth

[socialist]

While I don't put it at the bottom, if a ranger needs raid loot to desirable for a regular mid 50's experience group, that's hardly a ringing endorsement. Any character's good when it overgears the content. The ranger, specifically, is probably at its best in smaller-than-full groups where its versatile nature is most likely to make an impact.

Danth

Doesn't really take raid gear to tank group content, even for a ranger. You can absolutely tank for exp groups wearing stuff from the Barbed Ringmail tier of gear. And for any content that a ranger doesn't struggle to tank, it is the best tank. Higher DPS than knights, and the best aggro (meaning the cheapest, which is the best, since the tank's mana is often the bottleneck in a chain-pulling group).

[Swish]

If you're in an area where a necro can charm an undead pet then they're extremely useful... for the CC/utility and pet DPS.

Maybe half the necros on the server would sooner summon a pet and be semi-afk however, which is why I'm hesitant to invite them.

[Old_PVP]

mad

hope this helps

Looks like the staff finally intervened and saved Tunabros from him/herself. Hope this helps.

[kaev]

... I'd much rather add a ranger or even a paladin than a rogue in to my shadowknight/shaman duo I do with the wife ...

Danth

lol, I've been that paladin! :) been a long time tho
/wave Danth & Len

[kaev]

Doesn't really take raid gear to tank group content, even for a ranger. You can absolutely tank for exp groups wearing stuff from the Barbed Ringmail tier of gear. And for any content that a ranger doesn't struggle to tank, it is the best tank. Higher DPS than knights, and the best aggro (meaning the cheapest, which is the best, since the tank's mana is often the bottleneck in a chain-pulling group).

In a random composition dungeon PUG rangers can be a lot of fun. Root + Snare + Flamelick plus the toughness to take a hit or two can be very effective even when you're not tanking, especially when you've got a warrior tank and rogue dps.

When working with a shaman outdoors make the druid pull and let your ranger tank be Captain Amazing.

[Jimjam]

Ranger is best hybrid class cos it combines rogue tanking with warrior dps!

[Jibartik]

Ranger is best hybrid class cos it combines rogue tanking with warrior dps!

On paper, a warrior rogue is a great sounding idea for a ranger...

but you're supposed to bring the best of both worlds, not the worst!

you brought the worst but you left the best, didnt ya, you left the best!!! WHY!!!!

Lh_W6FLaMvA

[Danth]

lol, I've been that paladin! :) been a long time tho
/wave Danth & Len

Been a bit, but we're still here (if intermittently), just with maybe a few more grey hairs. Well not the wife, she's 23 forever, or so she informed me awhile back.

[socialist]

I frequently tell her the very same thing.

[TripSin]

If you're in an area where a necro can charm an undead pet then they're extremely useful... for the CC/utility and pet DPS.

Maybe half the necros on the server would sooner summon a pet and be semi-afk however, which is why I'm hesitant to invite them.

I almost want to say necro is the worst group class. I don't know why those heckers always want to just AFK.