most underpowered class in game?

[Trexller]

But all classes are great from some angles.

yeah i feel like something that is always missed in class vs. class debates is that any group with a good variety of classes is going to be effective.

it doesn't matter what mixture of the 14 classes is, as long as that variety is met the group is going to get stuff done.

[Cen]

yeah i feel like something that is always missed in class vs. class debates is that any group with a good variety of classes is going to be effective.

it doesn't matter what mixture of the 14 classes is, as long as that variety is met the group is going to get stuff done.

Druid, Paladin, Shadow Knight, Ranger, Warrior, and Wizard

:D the group of champions

[Swish]

Druid, Paladin, Shadow Knight, Ranger, Warrior, and Wizard

:D the group of champions

https://media.tenor.com/VgBauD89JGAAAAAM/cat-derp.gif

[Trexller]

Druid, Paladin, Shadow Knight, Ranger, Warrior, and Wizard

:D the group of champions

3 tanks doesn't fix the description of variety

even still, those 6 classes could get alot done together

we've all found ourselves in weird group compositions and excelled together

[Swish]

It's true. Necro main healers, CC clerics, rogues pulling, wizards that don't afk... anything is possible.

[Jimjam]

It's true. Necro main healers, CC clerics, rogues pulling, wizards that don't afk... anything is possible.

Necro is a beast healer, often the group does better with the necro healing while the cleric AFKs!

Cleric got stuns, root, paci, 2 memblurs (including clicky), fear, fear bomb. They are totally A-tier when it comes to CC!

Wizards are great pullers - eye of zomm lets them med while pulling. They can quickly get overpulls undercontrol with AoE snare and their range of roots. Hell, sometimes you'll see a wizard dealing with overpulls simply quad the adds to death before the rest of the group even kills the main target.

Rogues - survivable enough to pull. Don't give up on meditate to do so. Decent throwing, can scout out their pulls with stealth. Love it.


10/10 post Swish. People get so caught up on theoretical max, they forget the realities of playing the game doesn't always align to 'perfect groups'.

[Toxigen]

Druid, Paladin, Shadow Knight, Ranger, Warrior, and Wizard

:D the group of champions

Would rather take my dick to a grinding wheel than run a 6 man group comp like that.

[Dlhennes]

Aside from 20 year old memes, why the ranger hate? Better than warriors (except for a raid tank, obviously) for a group and dps and utility. Monks and rogues out-damage them, but so what?

[Ripqozko]

Aside from 20 year old memes, why the ranger hate? Better than warriors (except for a raid tank, obviously) for a group and dps and utility. Monks and rogues out-damage them, but so what?

while leveling yes, but at 60 with gear/disc no, rangers outdps monks (less abashi level weapon) and can outdps rogues disc'd. Ranger hate is from bad setup rangers.

[Toxigen]

nah rangers are still speedbumps sorry you dont got backstab / feign death / defensive disc hope this helps

[Ripqozko]

nah rangers are still speedbumps sorry you dont got backstab / feign death / defensive disc hope this helps

sorry you got bad rangers, imagine.

[Ennewi]

Druid, Paladin, Shadow Knight, Ranger, Warrior, and Wizard

:D the group of champions

Would rather take my dick to a grinding wheel than run a 6 man group comp like that.

Toxigenitals.


It's a perfectly fine composition assuming both knights have vulak/tunare 2hers, ranger has oakwynd, druid has manastone, wizard has manna robe, epic, and flowing thought stacked.

[Toxigen]

It's a perfectly fine composition assuming both knights have vulak/tunare 2hers, ranger has oakwynd, druid has manastone, wizard has manna robe, epic, and flowing thought stacked.


https://i.imgur.com/SBp5GRa.png

[Ennewi]

And maybe an AA or two for each class.

[arc]

The average XP group is so mind numbing that it's not worth it to give yourself carpal tunnel to squeeze an extra 1.5% xp per hour.

false gamer detected

[Gloomlord]

Raid guilds many, many years into Velious; would be the case even more so if the rule changed from fte to whoever dealt the most damage. Ignoring their other raid contributions, for group content they have stuns and roots which are commonly found in spellbooks but no less necessary. Gravity flux also once saw a lot of use in places like the Hole after first dropdown, in order for melees to get back up and out the entrance, before people started using the zoneout pads more frequently.

If all wizard has going for them is getting people to the planes and raid mobilisation, which feels like it's tacked on just so wizard have something to do, then can you see why people might think they're the most lacklustre class in the entire game?

You want stuns and roots for a group? Get a paladin. They'll do more sustained damage over time, and they can also heal in a pinch. There's zero reason to have them in a group. If you want evac, get a druid.

[Keebz]

Wizards mostly spam their flux staffs and run in circles. They also cast TLs and nuke. Taking people to Sky is cool, but is more of a bonus (Sky neck is actually really awesome). Paladins mostly just hover Soulfires. Sometimes they trash or ramp tank. Most classes don't do much on raids.

Hope this helps.

[Ennewi]

If all wizard has going for them is getting people to the planes and raid mobilisation, which feels like it's tacked on just so wizard have something to do, then can you see why people might think they're the most lacklustre class in the entire game?

It probably felt worse back when push interrupt kept mobs from gating and chealing, but since then burst damage has been needed more.

You want stuns and roots for a group? Get a paladin.

The two are among the least played classes in the game, if not the very least; find one and/or the other and there's your backup CC in case other more capable classes die to resists. Enstill (PAL) holds for roughly 30 seconds against dark blue targets on average, usually just enough to camp out versus 1-2 targets. That works well in groups with plenty of DPS, but otherwise needs to be reapplied enough to distract from tanking. More roots, in this case from WIZ, more survivability if the true CC class goes down. And for targets that can't be stunned, wizards have the answer paladins don't, burst DPS.

There's zero reason to have them in a group. If you want evac, get a druid.

Again, burst damage versus mobs that gate/complete heal or players trying to kill steal.

[Ennewi]

Wizards mostly spam their flux staffs and run in circles. They also cast TLs and nuke. Taking people to Sky is cool, but is more of a bonus (Sky neck is actually really awesome). Paladins mostly just hover Soulfires. Sometimes they trash or ramp tank. Most classes don't do much on raids.

Hope this helps.

DA -> Sanctification is perfect against targets like Trakanon. And if banished, can heal/lay hands through the damage until you're cothed back or hammer procs. Can also trash tank blue drakes with less mana issues afterwards, swapping in DW gauntlets to dispel thunder blast with one or two clicks. Definitely more to it than just SoulFire, though that's highest on the list and, without one, the raid has much less cushion / will need more coordination with reapers.

I suspect there's more to it with wizards as well but never played one.

[Keebz]

DA -> Sanctification

This is a really neat part of their kit, and it's cool when Pallies get to shine.

My point is more that all the classes are limited, and wizards are actually important to raiding, just not in the way he thinks they _should_ be.

[Ennewi]

This is a really neat part of their kit, and it's cool when Pallies get to shine.

My point is more that all the classes are limited, and wizards are actually important to raiding, just not in the way he thinks they _should_ be.

Aye, fair enough. There are opportunities to deviate here and there depending on the target but mostly what's expected from each class is known and be ready to do it a majority of the time; trying to get overly creative with it often will just lead to death and ridicule.

[kaev]

...

It's only if you time it badly AND the root doesn't go off AND your resummon gets interrupted by the mob that you need to kite (or use a root net or something). If you're playing well that should be a pretty rare occurrence.

Dang. If only Mages were popular! I could log onto blue and sell my old warrior's bags of useless root nets to the highest bidder.

[Zuranthium]

Classic Warriors just suck. Worst class in game in classic. Until they have Disc Knights just do it better.

Side note.. Will say if warrior gets haste sword from Fear.. They do become dmg machines for a short while. Wolvars warrior in kingdom did really nice DPS.. but thats like only way to make warriors decent pre kunark.

Warriors have dual wield, they can do way more DPS than a Pally, and more than an SK on p99 too (particularly on raid targets), since the pets can't have their attack speed increased from wielding a low delay weapon.

Warriors also have higher magic resist and HP, which used to be important for being able to fight raid targets. I guess that changed these days with everyone knowing how to get the best gear quickly, and other various learned things and different mechanics on p99, but back in the day other melee would be getting feared away or dying too much on Dragons/Gods, so Warriors were important there.

With lull being shitty in classic EQ, Paladin was definitely a weaker class. Rogue was also shit throughout much of classic (backstab did a lot less damage, sneak wasn't any better than invis, no evade).

[greatdane]

Dual wield is not top DPS in classic, especially if you don't get a dragon haste item and are instead using an FBSS when dual wielding compared to 36% when using a Monsoon or Sunderfury. Hell, even Mithril 2h is probably better. The damage bonus and dual wield skill cap at level 50 isn't high enough to make dual wield superior, and classic 1h ratios are really bad in general, PoSky come so late in classic that it's effectively Kunark content. The best 1hs a warrior can realistically have throughout the majority of classic is Blood Fire and something like SSoY. Monsoon/Sunderfury will outdamage that, especially if it also represents a 15% boost in haste for those who don't have a dragon haste item.

It's different for rangers who a) don't get any really good 2hs in classic and b) get better 1hs than warriors do.

[PatChapp]

Dual wield is not top DPS in classic, especially if you don't get a dragon haste item and are instead using an FBSS when dual wielding compared to 36% when using a Monsoon or Sunderfury. The damage bonus and dual wield skill cap at level 50 isn't high enough to make dual wield superior, and classic 1h ratios are really bad in general, PoSky come so late in classic that it's effectively Kunark content. The best a warrior can realistically have throughout the majority of classic is Blood Fire and something like SSoY. Monsoon/Sunderfury will outdamage that, especially if it also represents a 15% boost in haste for those who don't have a dragon haste item.

At lvl 50 the haste cap is only 70%, so as long they have a lvl 39+ enchanter haste even an fbss will bring to the cap

[Zuranthium]

Dual wield is not top DPS in classic

Yes it is, you swap to an offhand weapon inbetween Two-hander swings.

[greatdane]

Who the fuck really does that? Come on, mate.

[magnetaress]

U guys are so one dimensional. There really isn't an underpowered class just an underutilized class.


And the class that is the least leveraged? Probably clerics ppl play them like heal bots. It's so sad. Yet clerics can be really powerful workhorses.

[Trexller]

Who the fuck really does that? Come on, mate.

I see alot of monks punching between T-staff/IFS swings, I do that too until I get tired of all the clicking

[Loadsamoney]

Weren't Rangers, and Hybrids in general, scorned vitriolically during Classic/Kunark? Someone actually made a chart for Rangers in Kunark era saying that, if you didn't take advantage of every little think, you should reroll, and if you DID use literally everything the Ranger had at their disposal, congratulations, you were a weak Monk.

[Jimjam]

Probably shaman as it is the only one not compatible with vanilla humans.

[Bardp1999]

Weren't Rangers, and Hybrids in general, scorned vitriolically during Classic/Kunark? Someone actually made a chart for Rangers in Kunark era saying that, if you didn't take advantage of every little think, you should reroll, and if you DID use literally everything the Ranger had at their disposal, congratulations, you were a weak Monk.

It was more of the XP penalty (at least on Blue) as to why hybrids were shat upon. Rangers being the worst tank hybrid were especially shunned.

People love Rangers on Green, and it seems like the Ranger epic is getting completed regularly because ever FKing Ranger has it .

[Zuranthium]

Weren't Rangers, and Hybrids in general, scorned vitriolically during Classic/Kunark?

Rangers were one of the most popular classes in 1999 (Paladin quite popular too), thanks to the inherent fantasy-genre fanbase and because of being nearly identical to Warriors in terms of melee capability, while having some useful spells and tracking on top of it. The hybrid exp penalty was also not really known at the time.

When Kunark came out they quickly went down the drain in reputation, because their melee capability (especially tanking) got a lot worse and they didn't gain anything special to compensate for it, and the hybrid exp penalty became more known to the playerbase. Their lacking melee capability was compounded by dual-wielding generating more aggro than 2-hand melee, and lots of people didn't understand how to use Root for proximity aggro, so Rangers were taking aggro despite doing less damage and then not being able to tank too well.

Also the first player to hit Level 60 was a Ranger (achieved by camping NPC's in South Qeynos) and went on the message boards talking about how weak the class was at that point.

[greatdane]

Yeah, back in the actual early days of EQ, ranger was actually considered overpowered because they could "do so many things." This was before anyone had any real notions of who was the best tank, the best DPS, etc. Ranger and druid were considered the OP classes because they weren't limited to a select few things they could do. At the time, any class with dual wield and double attack (or a pet that had it) was considered top-tier DPS, and any class with taunt was a tank. Having snare, root, harmony, nukes, dots, sow etc. on top made it seem OP.

Then people realized that being able to do a bit of everything wasn't quite as impressive as it first seemed. Still, during the phase of a fresh server where everyone's just wearing banded anyway (or Lustrous Russet!), ranger is the best non-raid tank since they have the same shitty armor as anyone else, higher defensive skills than knights, and snap aggro. It's not as if it's really efficient to use CH in classic content anyway, so the ranger's slightly lower HP pool doesn't matter in any content that anyone would permit a ranger to tank in the first place.

[Loadsamoney]

It was more of the XP penalty (at least on Blue) as to why hybrids were shat upon. Rangers being the worst tank hybrid were especially shunned.

People love Rangers on Green, and it seems like the Ranger epic is getting completed regularly because ever FKing Ranger has it .

Split among 5 or 6 people it's not that big of a deal, and one would think the utility a half-decent Bard brings to a group is worth the penalty.