Static Group composition question

[Keyoto]

We have a static group going.
Cleric, pally, druid, enchanter, bard, rogue

We were thinking of switching out bard for a shaman. What do you think is better, more handy to have or will be able to do more stuff? I'm sure both compositions can do any group content, but will one be faster or easier for leveling and doing harder camps? Group is not super twinked or wealthy. Wearing banded sets and such mostly.

[Jibartik]

If they would preer shaman for sure, if they are indiferent then id say yes, if they want to play bard then who cares.

Bard and enchanter are sometimes annoying to play together but enchanter can make up for the shamans slow if they want to play bard and you'll always have that extra mana and regen and a puller.

If you guys travel together the the bard will be handy too.. shaman doesnt bring much more to the group but concrete stability. Id throw out there that you might want to up your DPS but maintain the puller slot with a monk.

[bomaroast]

Player enjoyment will keep the static group together longer than perfect group composition.

[Keyoto]

I know it won't matter too much in the long run. I'm the bard. I have a shaman almost the same level and we are all still low enough it doesn't matter if I swap. I'm going to play both classes regardless. One will be in the static group and the other I'll play other times. Mostly to help get plat for whatever class is in the static group. That way I can farm some spell money and whatever without leveling my static group class.

I originally picked bard over shaman because I'd rather group level the bard than swarm. I was know our dps is a bit lacking, but our survivability is high. What would help the dps more, the bard with over haste and mana song or shaman with buffs?

I played a monk on live as my main for many years. Monk is a no go for me.

[Jibartik]

I think bard is the one to go with in this group, it'd be nice to have a puller and the druid can regen while the enchanter slows. And with the alt shaman there you go when you need one.

[Danth]

As always, play the one you like the best because in the "perfect" choice doesn't do you any good if you aren't logging in because you don't like it.

Bard is probably better for that group as-is. It has the most unique tools the other classes don't already cover. The bard's usual drawback of button-spam is in this case reduced in relevance because the shaman eventually ends up spamming buttons roughly as fast as the bard does. It takes the shaman a while to get to that point, but it gets there in the end. The shaman is in the long run a very expensive character to fully fit out so that might be another plus for the bard. Finally, you already have two healer types plus a paladin, so you can lose either of the healers and the group will keep on going, while the bard can act in the tank role if it has to in the event the paladin quits. Having key players quit is always the major issue with static pre-made groups so having redundancy across critical roles is always a plus.

Danth

[Keyoto]

These are the kinds of things I was looking to hear other opinions on. I know play what you want to play for hours and hours. If you don't like it you won't play it. I'm going to play and enjoy both bard and shaman. I just wanted to hear some theory craft on what other people thought would be a better fit for the 5 other group members.

With pally and rogue as the melee besides bard, one of the reasons why I went bard over shaman originally is thinking the bard can off tank if needed. Probably not a huge thing with enchanter in group, but in an oooohhhh crap moment the off tank is an added bonus to have. Or literally tank if pally has RL and can't make it a day.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

These are the kinds of things I was looking to hear other opinions on. I know play what you want to play for hours and hours. If you don't like it you won't play it. I'm going to play and enjoy both bard and shaman. I just wanted to hear some theory craft on what other people thought would be a better fit for the 5 other group members.

With pally and rogue as the melee besides bard, one of the reasons why I went bard over shaman originally is thinking the bard can off tank if needed. Probably not a huge thing with enchanter in group, but in an oooohhhh crap moment the off tank is an added bonus to have. Or literally tank if pally has RL and can't make it a day.

In your case I think it mostly depends on how good your Enchanter is, and how much work they are willing to do. The Shaman/Enchanter combo is great when the Enchanter wants to fully focus on Charm and crowd control. The Shaman handles the Slows and Malos. With Tash and Malo, you can land spells better on high MR targets. If targets don't need a lot of resistance reduction, you can also have the Shaman Malo, so the Enchanter doesn't have to Tash. This will help share the mana bar burden between two players, and also reduce the Enchanter's overall stress and workload. Malo + Tash is also always great for longer lasting Charmed pets.

If your Enchanter is a god, then Bard would probably be better for mana battery and other misc Bard stuff.

Shamans can off-tank pretty well too since they have slow + root + blind + doggo pet + heals, so I wouldn't be too worried about not being able to off-tank in either case.

[cd288]

Not really sure what the shaman would bring to that group at that point besides allowing the ench to not have to slow/haste. You already have regen and off healer in Druid so it’s really just what does the ench want to be doing

[dareo]

Reroll as six wizards.

[Jibartik]

At 60 a shaman IMO does a better job at group CC while the enchanter focuses on DPS but thats just a random fact about what I think.

[Coridan]

Bard is a way better puller than anything else in the group. Unless the Paladin swaps to SK or the rogue to Monk I'd say keep the bard.

[PatChapp]

At 60 a shaman IMO does a better job at group CC while the enchanter focuses on DPS but thats just a random fact about what I think.

With torpor only though, and enchanters are better at locking down casters.

[starkind]

I didn't read Op butt

1) war
2) rogue
3) paladin
4) ranger
5) bard
6) wizard

(Out of group wives to help pl)
1) ench
2) necro
3) druid or shm
4) cleric
5) monk
6) unicorn 🦄

[Ivory]

Where is bone knight? All fellowships need bone knight, most powerful of all adventurers.

[TomisFeline]

already said, but i agree:

all things equal, pick what you want to play

otherwise: if enchanter is advanced/skilled player: no question the bard is the choice. also you want a puller, which a bard can do top tier if they are solid

otherwise: if enchanter is expecting to have the same level of interaction with the game on their enchanter as other classes do on average EQ, pick the shaman.

this is because (later game) shaman would take over some of enchanters otherwise responsibilities.

but if you just want a simple answer:
ez bard

[Bardp1999]

Honestly, you would be better off making a Necromancer in this group by a long shot and just having the pally pull.

In a static group like this not having a necro seems crazy - great DPS, twitches, heals, roots, can help split hard rooms with snare and FD, extra rez for the cleric if the group wipes (FD)... necro would really help this group shine. 3 Priests is a slog fest higher level and the Bards warts really start to show 50+ no matter the gear level or effort level.

You are lacking DPS big time and it will show later on. Unless you plan on working the enchanter into the ground Bard or Shaman are both sub optimal IMO.

[Jibartik]

enchanters are better at locking down casters.

yeah about casters but that AOE slow just humiliates trains.

[Keyoto]

So after some leveling we might swap another class.
Cleric
Druid
Pally
enchanter
Monk (swapping from rogue)
Still up in the air on bard or shaman for last spot after monk swap in

[eunomios]

So after some leveling we might swap another class.
Cleric
Druid
Pally
enchanter
Monk (swapping from rogue)
Still up in the air on bard or shaman for last spot after monk swap in

There's so much utility/role overlap in this group... Shaman has Malo for the charm pet and comparable DPS to what the bard would add with song Haste on the Monk/Paladin. EDIT: some Shaman HP buffs stack with Cleric HP buffs making complete Heal more efficient... so there's that. Bard is a miserable class to main effectively (twisting instrument swaps), another consideration.

This group will NEED the charm pet for DPS if the group isn't hunting undead. Shaman can DPS with melee/frost DD/Slow[drowsy] with a Paladin Tank, while also providing STR/DEX buffs if the Cleric or Druid is Healing.

[PatChapp]

There's so much utility/role overlap in this group... Shaman has Malo for the charm pet and comparable DPS to what the bard would add with song Haste on the Monk/Paladin. EDIT: some Shaman HP buffs stack with Cleric HP buffs making complete Heal more efficient... so there's that. Bard is a miserable class to main effectively (twisting instrument swaps), another consideration.

This group will NEED the charm pet for DPS if the group isn't hunting undead. Shaman can DPS with melee/frost DD/Slow[drowsy] with a Paladin Tank, while also providing STR/DEX buffs if the Cleric or Druid is Healing.

Bards can provide charm pet DPS as well, as long as they pick locations with some space for the bard to run around a bit

[Keyoto]

I know there's overlap which is ok. We aren't trying to min\max. We are playing once a week, so speed isn't a priority. Not spending half our time doing CRs if exploring is more important.

Our dps what I'm trying to stretch without burning out. I was thinking bard could help CC and let chanter go wild with charm. Bard charm if room too. Clarity plus mana song and other casters can go nuts for more dps too. Or... Shaman buff and cast for more dps, but chanter has more work.

I think it kind of comes down to being between chanter working extra hard to add dps or bard doing bard and working hard to add dps in different way.

I suppose whatever choice makes one person not killing themselves trying to do everything constantly will be the thing that keeps the group together. I guess shaman. Slower and steady. We have lots of root to cc with to help chanter.

[nallbor]

You can level where the druid can charm animals. Then you have 2 charm pets and DPS is less of a concern. you got bats in sol B, dogs in Chardok, then in Kael with 2 dog pets you would mow giants down and get armor drops easy. Snare from the druid and stuns from cleric and pally can help with ease of 2 charm pets.

[eunomios]

Bard charm means the bard is only charming, and does it worse than an enchanter. Also: 2 perm charm pets means 2 NPCs are locked down from being exp pinatas and respawning. Bard charm is good as ghetto mez, or short term CC with DPS benefit. There's a monk, cleric, paladin, and enchanter - realistically the group should only ever see 1 mob in camp with feign death and Pacify. Not to mention the druid/shaman can root and should be doing so instead of mez so dots can tick and paladin can throw spell hate on the add. Basicly Monk and Paladin work together to pull mobs... adds get rooted and doted by shaman/druid.

Shaman is the better choice over Bard for this group imo. MALO is very impactful.

[Keyoto]

Bard charm means the bard is only charming, and does it worse than an enchanter. Also: 2 perm charm pets means 2 NPCs are locked down from being exp pinatas and respawning. Bard charm is good as ghetto mez, or short term CC with DPS benefit. There's a monk, cleric, paladin, and enchanter - realistically the group should only ever see 1 mob in camp with feign death and Pacify. Not to mention the druid/shaman can root and should be doing so instead of mez so dots can tick and paladin can throw spell hate on the add. Basicly Monk and Paladin work together to pull mobs... adds get rooted and doted by shaman/druid.

Shaman is the better choice over Bard for this group imo. MALO is very impactful.


I like this idea. Rooting as the main CC let's those mobs be dotted which definitely helps us preload some dps from shm, druid. That never occurred to me. I was hung up on bard and chanter mezz and who's doing it at the cost of dps.

Sometimes theory crafting a 20 year old game is just as fun as playing that 20-year-old game. At least for me. I think you're right going shaman. We have so much utility that bards utility is even more overkill. We also can be pretty much raid buffed if we needed to be.

[bomaroast]

Bard charm is the very worst thing in groups. Every 18 seconds whoever is sitting down is going to get smacked.

[eunomios]

Rooting as the main CC

Mez 2.5 sec Cast, 20 mana, 4 ticks - Must be casted by the Enchanter who is managing a charm pet (if they chose to do so)

Root 2 sec Cast, 30 mana, up to 8 ticks! - Can be casted by Classes that don't have a charm pet ticking time bomb.

Root is, imo, the BEST spell in Classic EQ. Should be purchased and placed on every casters spell bar that has the ability to scribe it. Root has 2 downfalls: Mob placement is more fragile, caster mobs can still cast. Root still casts faster and freees up a busy enchanter when another Caster takes the CC role.

Paladins can root at 22 - Rooting a multi pull as it comes into the camp is effective CC and the Paladin gets some Hate on the add.

The p99 Devs even Root the most coveted Raid mobs, root is insane!

[Vivitron]

I know there's overlap which is ok. We aren't trying to min\max. We are playing once a week, so speed isn't a priority. Not spending half our time doing CRs if exploring is more important.

Our dps what I'm trying to stretch without burning out. I was thinking bard could help CC and let chanter go wild with charm. Bard charm if room too. Clarity plus mana song and other casters can go nuts for more dps too. Or... Shaman buff and cast for more dps, but chanter has more work.

I think it kind of comes down to being between chanter working extra hard to add dps or bard doing bard and working hard to add dps in different way.

I suppose whatever choice makes one person not killing themselves trying to do everything constantly will be the thing that keeps the group together. I guess shaman. Slower and steady. We have lots of root to cc with to help chanter.

I think the group will work well with either the bard or shaman.

On my enchanter charm+buffs+cc didn't usually feel like working extra hard post level 24ish -- before that low mana regen and buff and charm durations are limiting, but eventually this becomes a comfortable group role except for the constant pet vigilance. It's when you add pulling and slowing and dispelling that it gets hectic.

[DMN]

bard is fine here. adding a shaman does very little. i think id prefer the bard just so the enchanter can take some occcassional breaks if/when charming. Additonally the the bard can charm for quite a long time. The trick here is to make sure the druid keeps the bard pet ensared.