Sleeper being awoken tonight (April 13th)

[Elizondo]

If you post the rest of my comments you would see my explaination. But when you do that you disprove your point. So keep dodging lol.

So Yup doesn't mean what it means?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So Yup doesn't mean what it means?

When you explain what you meant on top of the yup, it adds a thing called context. You simply remove context to try and score points. So post the rest of my comments to add context, or admit defeat.

[Elizondo]

When you explain what you meant on top of the yup, it adds a thing called context. You simply remove context to try and score points. So post the rest of my comments to add context, or admit defeat.

You're confusing context with spin

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're confusing context with spin

Sleeper still napping on Red? Nope.

See? I can do it too:) Context matters.

[Elizondo]

See? I can do it too:) Context matters.

Why do you keep doing this to yourself?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Why do you keep doing this to yourself?

You are going back in to timeout until you can stop trolling again. Happy to continue talking to you when you can make a point and contribute to the conversation.

[Ripqozko]

Whole lot of people that never seen warders talking about warders, like DSM. hope that helps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Whole lot of people that never seen warders talking about warders, like DSM. hope that helps.

Irrelevant. You aren't special for having the worst Warder loot in the game lol.

[cd288]

Irrelevant. You aren't special for having the worst Warder loot in the game lol.

Bro you’re still here commenting? Lmao

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Bro you’re still here commenting? Lmao

Says the guy commenting lol.

[Ripqozko]

Says the guy commenting lol.

i have at least experienced the content, you have nothing. hope that helps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

i have at least experienced the content, you have nothing. hope that helps.

This is just sad. I have raided everything I wanted to raid. Not sure why raiding every boss is a badge of honor lol. Its just a game.

[Ripqozko]

This is just sad. I have raided everything I wanted to raid. Not sure why raiding every boss is a badge of honor lol. Its just a game.

sorry you dont got, hope that helps.

[cd288]

Says the guy commenting lol.

Think you missed the point of the comment lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Think you missed the point of the comment lol

Honestly I don't care even if I did. The comment isn't relevant to the discussion, and it is basically the only way you can score points, because you don't have any counter argument to my points:)

sorry you dont got, hope that helps.

Sorry you got. Hope this helps. A bank/bag slot is more useful than poison resistance stone lol.

[Tunabros]

ripqozko's entire life is eq

he's got nothing else

oh and he watches anime everyday

[Ripqozko]

ripqozko's entire life is eq

he's got nothing else

oh and he watches anime everyday

you still mad about sleepers i see. sorry you never made it into seal team. hope that helps

malding/cope more

[cd288]

Honestly I don't care even if I did. The comment isn't relevant to the discussion, and it is basically the only way you can score points, because you don't have any counter argument to my points:)



Sorry you got. Hope this helps. A bank/bag slot is more useful than poison resistance stone lol.

Already proved ya wrong bubs :)

As have many other people. You just can’t let it go and are somehow still here days later continuing to try and argue lmao

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Already proved ya wrong bubs :)

As have many other people. You just can’t let it go and are somehow still here days later continuing to try and argue lmao

"I can't let it go" says the guy who keeps posting, pretending he can let it go. In reality you are just salty you couldn't counter my arguments. Do you have any rebuttals to my arguments, or are you just going to be silly some more?:)

[Fammaden]

Posting in epic post count farming thread.

[Goldknyght]

"I can't let it go" says the guy who keeps posting, pretending he can let it go. In reality you are just salty you couldn't counter my arguments. Do you have any rebuttals to my arguments, or are you just going to be silly some more?:)

Been rebutting your argument this entire time. You are jus stubborn and think because we don't agree with your timer analogy or we should think waking the sleeper isn't a d*** move if community doesn't want it, isn't worthy against ur great takes as you feel yours are fact. when no they are just opinions just like ours. So keep trying, keep extending the same comments you've been extending, n just not let go.

End of day, with or without the communities blessing removing content is a D*** move (especially since there isn't any content being added), removing a broken item, isnt.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Been rebutting your argument this entire time. You are jus stubborn and think because we don't agree with your timer analogy or we should think waking the sleeper isn't a d*** move if community doesn't want it, isn't worthy against ur great takes as you feel yours are fact. when no they are just opinions just like ours. So keep trying, keep extending the same comments you've been extending, n just not let go.

End of day, with or without the communities blessing removing content is a D*** move (especially since there isn't any content being added), removing a broken item, isnt.

Calling people dicks isn't an argument, so no you have not been rebutting anything. Yes I am using facts, not just opinions. Just because you don't like the facts, doesn't mean they aren't facts.

Why are you not the stubborn one who can't admit they are wrong? I can easily throw that back at you.

[Local]

Calling people dicks isn't an argument, so no you have not been rebutting anything. Yes I am using facts, not just opinions. Just because you don't like the facts, doesn't mean they aren't facts.

Why are you not the stubborn one who can't admit they are wrong? I can easily throw that back at you.

Good god, man, how are you still going after FIFTY-THREE pages? I am officially designating this thread DeathsSilkyMist's cry for help. Someone reach out to this man to make sure he's okay. This is far from normal behavior.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Good god, man, how are you still going after FIFTY-THREE pages? I am officially designating this thread DeathsSilkyMist's cry for help. Someone reach out to this man to make sure he's okay. This is far from normal behavior.

Making multiple threads crying you didn't get imaginary loot isn't a cry for help?:) Also, if you are better than everybody else, why bother posting to begin with?

[Goldknyght]

Calling people dicks isn't an argument, so no you have not been rebutting anything. Yes I am using facts, not just opinions. Just because you don't like the facts, doesn't mean they aren't facts.

Why are you not the stubborn one who can't admit they are wrong? I can easily throw that back at you.

No you saying i cant say it was a D*** move is what was rebutted(edit correction: refuted) lol, you dont need a reason to say this either also too btw.
Here you go agian, changing the goal post to make it seem like you are correct. And no you are not using facts. You are using an analogy. They aren't the same. You can try to say it however you want, its not a fact, they arnt the same. Players vs Devs are different regardless how YOU(keyword you) feel. So no you have yet to use a fact. but im the one who is stubborn because you cant accept that fact.

[eqravenprince]

Poor DSM, I understand the point he is trying to make.

[cd288]

Good god, man, how are you still going after FIFTY-THREE pages? I am officially designating this thread DeathsSilkyMist's cry for help. Someone reach out to this man to make sure he's okay. This is far from normal behavior.

Couldve gotten his SK to 60 in the time hes spent on this thread lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No you saying i cant say it was a D*** move is what was rebutted(edit correction: refuted) lol, you dont need a reason to say this either also too btw.
Here you go agian, changing the goal post to make it seem like you are correct. And no you are not using facts. You are using an analogy. They aren't the same. You can try to say it however you want, its not a fact, they arnt the same. Players vs Devs are different regardless how YOU(keyword you) feel. So no you have yet to use a fact. but im the one who is stubborn because you cant accept that fact.

I never impeded your free speech lol. You can say whatever you want. However, simply saying it is a dick move doesn't make it so. Not really sure how you think you are scoring points by refuting a point I didn't make.

No goalposts have been moved. Simply saying that isn't a clever way to try and discredit me. You need to explain how and why the goalposts were moved. The entire post history is here, I will happily admit you are right if you can prove it.

Using an analogy doesn't make it an opinion lol. You can use an analogy to explain facts if the readers don't understand the concept directly. Analogies are a communication tool, not a magical device that changes facts into opinions.

Players and Developers are different, I never said they weren't. However, just because Players and Developers have differences, doesn't magically mean everything they do is incomparable, or alien. You are using improper logic to assume that because Players and Developers have differences, you can use that as an excuse to claim you are correct, and change the definition of loot denial to fit your narrative.

There is nothing in the definition of loot denial to suggest only players can do it. Also, there is nothing in the definition of loot denial to suggest it is inherently bad. Everquest is a game built on loot denial. If your guild gets a raid boss, you have denied the competing guilds that boss's loot. But I don't see people claiming that is bad. It is just part of any game where scarcity is a component. Really the only situations where I can think loot denial is bad is ninja looting or hacking the game. Everything else is within the rules, and thus fair game.

Poor DSM, I understand the point he is trying to make.

Thanks for the support!

[Ripqozko]

DSM will artistically keep replying over and over. Just say anything and you'll get a response.

[Tunabros]

you still mad about sleepers i see. sorry you never made it into seal team. hope that helps

malding/cope more

Had no interest in raiding on green that much. I don't even have a lv 60 on green even after 2 years. I'm just enjoying the ride bruh. Why do you think everyone should have warder loot? It's like you automatically look down on them for not putting in the time to get them.

[Wonton]

Glad you guys were able to screw over the server and delete content once you and your buddies all got it!

THIS GUY STILL MAD OVER LOSING/NOT EXPERIENCING CONTENT OF A 23 YEAR OLD GAME LIKE HOLY SHIT IF THIS IS NOT PROOF THAT EVERQUEST IS THE GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME PLEASE SOMEONE INFORM US OTHERWISE TY HAVE A WONDERFUL BLESSED DAY YOWL YEEEEEHAWWWWWWWWWW !

Thank You Nilbog and thank you Rogean and thank you all the current and pre-existing Devs~~ For this Project 1999~~~ in Helping create and creating life-long memories for myself, the times i've gotten upset just like this young nerd youngling, the try-hards, and all the casuals. Servers down btw and im at working looking to play RIPsauce *wink* lol Guess i'll just take this moment and have some gratitude for the server like the rest of the 98% of you should do as well. lol tata

[Abukii]

Say DICKS you pussy Goldknyght holy fuck

[Crede]

Been rebutting your argument this entire time. You are jus stubborn and think because we don't agree with your timer analogy or we should think waking the sleeper isn't a d*** move if community doesn't want it, isn't worthy against ur great takes as you feel yours are fact. when no they are just opinions just like ours. So keep trying, keep extending the same comments you've been extending, n just not let go.

End of day, with or without the communities blessing removing content is a D*** move (especially since there isn't any content being added), removing a broken item, isnt.

DSM is notorious for disguising his opinions as facts and would not hesitate to engage in a 1000+ page thread to stick to that.

He's a great presenter of certain game information/mechanics which I can appreciate, but his major flaw is trying to get involved with highly debatable/controversial topics vs just sticking with the former. I think he's the kind of dude a lawyer would want to have behind the scenes gathering information for him, but definitely would not want him to be the one presenting the argument.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM is notorious for disguising his opinions as facts and would not hesitate to engage in a 1000+ page thread to stick to that.

He's a great presenter of certain game information/mechanics which I can appreciate, but his major flaw is trying to get involved with highly debatable/controversial topics vs just sticking with the former. I think he's the kind of dude a lawyer would want to have behind the scenes gathering information for him, but definitely would not want him to be the one presenting the argument.

I am not disguising opinions as facts. I am not sure how you can say that, when people complaining about Sleeper are purposely distorting the definition of "loot denial" to basically only apply to Seal Team so they have an excuse to attack them. That is the definition of disguising opinions as facts lol.

I am not perfect, but the funny thing is people think saying "Seal Team are dicks!" is somehow a fact, but me explaining the fact that Sleeper and Manastone were intended to be removed is an opinion. It is not an opinion, both were purposely programmed in to be removed by the developers. It is a fact that these were done on purpose, because it was coded this way, both on Blue and Green. It isn't like this was a fluke or bug they missed on Blue. Unless you have any evidence to suggest it was an accident, bug, etc.?

I would be happy to discuss with you which facts you think are opinions.

People just need to say "I am angry I didn't get Warder loot". I am perfectly fine with that, and I am sympathetic. The only problem I have is people are falsely accusing Seal Team of "loot denial" in a negative context. They have done nothing different than any other "loot denial" that occurs in the game. I am not sure why people think it is good to falsely accuse others.

[cd288]

I am not disguising opinions as facts. I am not sure how you can say that, when people complaining about Sleeper are purposely distorting the definition of "loot denial" to basically only apply to Seal Team so they have an excuse to attack them. That is the definition of disguising opinions as facts lol.

I am not perfect, but the funny thing is people think saying "Seal Team are dicks!" is somehow a fact, but me explaining the fact that Sleeper and Manastone were intended to be removed is an opinion. It is not an opinion, both were purposely programmed in to be removed by the developers. It is a fact that these were done on purpose, because it was coded this way, both on Blue and Green. It isn't like this was a fluke or bug they missed on Blue. Unless you have any evidence to suggest it was an accident, bug, etc.?

I would be happy to discuss with you which facts you think are opinions.

People just need to say "I am angry I didn't get Warder loot". I am perfectly fine with that, and I am sympathetic. The only problem I have is people are falsely accusing Seal Team of "loot denial" in a negative context. They have done nothing different than any other "loot denial" that occurs in the game. I am not sure why people think it is good to falsely accuse others.

You literally just proved his point lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You literally just proved his point lol

How? Just saying nonsense is not an argument lol. You are getting nowhere by just posting silly generic comments. It doesn't make you sound smart, or prove your point.

[cd288]

How? Just saying nonsense is not an argument lol. You are getting nowhere by just posting silly generic comments. It doesn't make you sound smart, or prove your point.

-_-

[DeathsSilkyMist]

-_-

I am sorry, but you cannot accuse someone of something without explaining. Otherwise the accusation is baseless. Your accusation that I am "disguising opinions as facts" is simply a poor attempt at scoring points unless you can prove it. I understand it is a low effort method of trying to undermine someone, but it doesn't mean you are correct lol.

[Elizondo]

Reminder this was 51 pages ago

Do you always act this childish and stubborn when you're wrong?

Hope that helps

[JDAm0nk]

50+ pages of inane "debate" largely driven by someone who doesn't even play on Green...

I think you can stop now.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

50+ pages of inane "debate" largely driven by someone who doesn't even play on Green...

I think you can stop now.

Whether or not you play on Green is irrelevant. Nobody's opinion would have changed here even if I was in Kingdom lol.

Blue and Green functionally work the same, there is no reason why a person on Blue cannot comment on the functionality of Green. The minor differences such as custom UI on Blue and not Green are tiny, so please do not try to straw man me with this, it is just a waste of time.

[Goldknyght]

I never impeded your free speech lol. You can say whatever you want. However, simply saying it is a dick move doesn't make it so. Not really sure how you think you are scoring points by refuting a point I didn't make.

No goalposts have been moved. Simply saying that isn't a clever way to try and discredit me. You need to explain how and why the goalposts were moved. The entire post history is here, I will happily admit you are right if you can prove it.

Using an analogy doesn't make it an opinion lol. You can use an analogy to explain facts if the readers don't understand the concept directly. Analogies are a communication tool, not a magical device that changes facts into opinions.

Players and Developers are different, I never said they weren't. However, just because Players and Developers have differences, doesn't magically mean everything they do is incomparable, or alien. You are using improper logic to assume that because Players and Developers have differences, you can use that as an excuse to claim you are correct, and change the definition of loot denial to fit your narrative.

There is nothing in the definition of loot denial to suggest only players can do it. Also, there is nothing in the definition of loot denial to suggest it is inherently bad. Everquest is a game built on loot denial. If your guild gets a raid boss, you have denied the competing guilds that boss's loot. But I don't see people claiming that is bad. It is just part of any game where scarcity is a component. Really the only situations where I can think loot denial is bad is ninja looting or hacking the game. Everything else is within the rules, and thus fair game.



Thanks for the support!

And you saying it doesnt make is so, doesnt also make it so. your point?

Yes using an analogy is an opinion cuz its like apples(dev) vs oranges(players) and yes they are both fruit(time), but whatever you have to say about it, is what you perceive, not the truth outside its only a matter of time, which no one was arguing. Just they aren't the same kind of timer is what people keep telling you.

An so if EQ is based of loot denial, there should of never been a PnP because I should be able to do anything to prevent you from obtaining loot, if thats my ultimate goal, with the tools that EQ lets me use with either stealing ur kill or just denying you the kill with a train. But etiquette says don't do those things. Therefore its known in the EQ community, waking the sleeper is a D*** move even if server says its ok. There is nothing to be gained, only lost by waking the sleeper. End of story. So the act of doing it, makes it a D*** move and you know it, but since it doesn't really matter to u either way, your ok with it.

And if loot denial wasnt something that was bad. Later xpacs in everquest would not have went instanced. So your logic is actually way off base there.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

And you saying it doesnt make is so, doesnt also make it so. your point?

Yes using an analogy is an opinion cuz its like apples(dev) vs oranges(players) and yes they are both fruit(time), but whatever you have to say about it, is what you perceive, not the truth outside its only a matter of time, which no one was arguing. Just they aren't the same kind of timer is what people keep telling you.

An so if EQ is based of loot denial, there should of never been a PnP because I should be able to do anything to prevent you from obtaining loot, if thats my ultimate goal, with the tools that EQ lets me use with either killing your steal or just denying you the kill with a train. But etiquette says don't do those things. Therefore its known in the EQ community, waking the sleeper is a D*** move even if server says its ok. There is nothing to be gained, only lost by waking the sleeper. End of story. So the act of doing it, makes it a D*** move and you know it, but since it doesn't really matter to u either way, your ok with it.

And if loot denial wasnt something that was bad. Later xpacs in everquest would not have went instanced. So your logic is actually way off base there.

The difference is I can prove my points by showing you evidence based on how the game actually works lol. Manastone was removed years ago on Green and Blue. That is a fact, not an opinion. Sleeper was specifically programmed to be a one time event. It was a one time event on Blue, and it was a one time event on Green. Both of these are facts. We have data from two servers, and the time between Blue Velious and Green Velious was years. We can safely conclude this wasn't a bug on the Developers part. They haven't said it was, and they didn't fix it. My evidence is MUCH stronger than yours, which is literally just an opinion. Can I say with 100% certainty? No, nobody can do that. But 95% is close enough, and WAY closer than you:)

You are simply wrong about how you think analogies work. I am sorry. If a child asks you "what is gravity?", do you explain all of the physics behind it? No, you use an analogy like "Gravity is like jumping up and down." That isn't a 100% accurate explanation of the situation, but it is still a fact, just conveyed in a different manner.

The PnP doesn't prevent all forms of loot denial. The kinds of loot denial that we do not want have been specified in the PnP. Sleeper is not included in the PnP, therefore he is fair game. That is why you can camp most things indefinitely, as long as you are not AFK, for example. I do not advise doing that, as sleep is a good thing, but you are not prevented from doing so.

Again, you are mixing up the original timeline and organic developement of Everquest with P99. The intentions of the original developers who made Everquest and the P99 developers are different. The P99 developers are not making a brand new game, and changing it dynamically as they discover new things. They are replicating the game as it was Classic->Velious, warts and all. This also means whatever functionality was in Classic->Velious is intended to be in P99. Otherwise, they would have taken it out. They could easily add instancing to P99 if they wanted to, for example. There is nothing stopping them.

[Ripqozko]

DSM will autistically keep replying over and over. Just say anything and you'll get a response.

[Goldknyght]

The difference is I can prove my points by showing you evidence based on how the game actually works lol. Manastone was removed years ago on Green and Blue. That is a fact, not an opinion. Sleeper was specifically programmed to be a one time event. It was a one time event on Blue, and it was a one time event on Green. Both of these are facts. We have data from two servers, and the time between Blue Velious and Green Velious was years. We can safely conclude this wasn't a bug on the Developers part. They haven't said it was, and they didn't fix it. My evidence is MUCH stronger than yours, which is literally just an opinion. Can I say with 100% certainty? No, nobody can do that. But 95% is close enough, and WAY closer than you:)

You are simply wrong about how you think analogies work. I am sorry. If a child asks you "what is gravity?", do you explain all of the physics behind it? No, you use an analogy like "Gravity just like jumping up and down." That isn't a 100% accurate explanation of the situation, but it is still a fact, just conveyed in a different manner.

The PnP doesn't prevent all forms of loot denial. The kinds of loot denial that we do not want have been specified in the PnP. Sleeper is not included in the PnP. That is why you can camp most things indefinitely, as long as you are not AFK, for example. I do not advise doing that, as sleep is a good thing, but you are not prevented from doing so.

Again, you are mixing up the original timeline and organic developement of Everquest with P99. The intentions of the original developers who made Everquest and the P99 developers are different. The P99 developers are not making a brand new game, and changing it dynamically as they discover new things. They are replicating the game as it was Classic->Velious, warts and all. This also means whatever functionality was in Classic->Velious is intended to be in P99. Otherwise, they would have taken it out.

oh god, you keep grasping at straws because things are removed. No one argued they weren't removed. Just that there removals aren't the same. It does actually matter how something was removed. Context always matters.

And no im not wrong, it just doesnt matter to you, so you can fit your narrative and never be false with the logic your using. No one is using your logic except you, its why its your opinion. But tell me again in the same way its not.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

oh god, you keep grasping at straws because things are removed. No one argued they weren't removed. Just that there removals aren't the same. It does actually matter how something was removed. Context always matters.

And no im not wrong, it just doesnt matter to you, so you can fit your narrative and never be false with the logic your using. No one is using your logic except you, its why its your opinion. But tell me again in the same way its not.

It doesn't matter how they were removed if the removal is intentional. It is part of the game, it's not a bug, and not prohibited by the PnP. The P99 developers intended Manastone to be removed, and they intended Sleeper to be awoken. The data backs up me up, while you have nothing.

You're assertion that "how it was removed" matters is your attempt at shaping the narrative to fit your opinion. You are bending backwards to change the definition of loot denial to only include Seal Team. That is incorrect.

[Goldknyght]

It doesn't matter how they were removed if the removal is intentional. It is part of the game, it's not a bug, and not prohibited by the PnP. The P99 developers intended Manastone to be removed, and they intended Sleeper to be awoken. The data backs up me up, while you have nothing.

You're assertion that "how it was removed" matters is your attempt at shaping the narrative to fit your opinion. You are bending backwards to change the definition of loot denial to only include Seal Team. That is incorrect.

So are you willing to admit, its Your and My opinion like I've been saying this entire time?

[fortior]

55 pages lol, holy shit. you guys are mad

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So are you willing to admit, its Your and My opinion like I've been saying this entire time?

Where did I admit it was my opinion when I just said I have the data to back it up? You can play the game to see that Manastone is no longer dropping. You can watch the video of Sleeper being awoken, and see that Warders are no longer spawning. This is true for both servers. You can check all of the developer notes/comments and you won't find them claiming Sleeper isn't working as intended. You can check the PnP, and you won't find an exception for Sleeper, saying he cannot be woken up.

[Ripqozko]

Taking bets on DSM going 100+ pages, what you got?

[Goldknyght]

Where did I admit it was my opinion when I just said I have the data to back it up? You can play the game to see that Manastone is no longer dropping. You can watch the video of Sleeper being awoken, and see that Warders are no longer spawning. This is true for both servers. You can check all of the developer notes/comments and you won't find them claiming Sleeper isn't working as intended. You can check the PnP, and you won't find an exception for Sleeper, saying he cannot be woken up.

You have no data, you have a result from two experiments that both use time. so u just lump it altogether saying its the same. So guess the answer is no, u dont know how to admit your take is an opinion. its ok. Knowing your faults is better than not knowing em.

[strongNpretty]

Man, I didnt pay any attention to all this cause i didn't think i cared.. For some reason knowing we have 2 servers that are now the same, makes me want to go ahead and step away for good..

I don't even play on green, but green living and thriving with content we don't have, or already moved past- Made me happy for P99 players..

I'm kinda sad knowing where we are in P99 now... I wish half the population that has been no lifing it for the last decade would just quit and move on.. All servers are now run by the same people playing for 10years +.

Therefore no matter how many servers you make, we're gonna always run into the same issues, with the same people getting the same results in the end.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You have no data, you have a result from two experiments that both use time. so u just lump it altogether saying its the same. So guess the answer is no, u dont know how to admit your take is an opinion. its ok. Knowing your faults is better than not knowing em.

I do have data, and everybody here can find it. You can keep saying that I don't have data, but it doesn't make it true. Where is your data to prove that your opinion is more than just that? I would love to see it.

[Goldknyght]

I do have data, and everybody here can find it. You can keep saying that I don't have data, but it doesn't make it true. Where is your data to prove that your opinion is more than just that? I would love to see it.

No you have zero data, all you have is some arbitrary timer that you lump this situation into, when its not. so if you have some facts, I would love to see it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No you have zero data, all you have is some arbitrary timer that you lump this situation into, when its not. so if you have some facts, I would love to see it.

I provided plenty of easily findable evidence already. The burden of proof falls on to you, no matter how many times you try to dodge it. I don't want to keep going back and forth with you until you can actually provide counter evidence. Just saying you are right does not make it so. This will be my last reply to you until you actually bring something new to the table.

[Elizondo]

I don't want to keep going back and forth with you until you can actually provide counter evidence.

Sleeper still up on Red?

[Goldknyght]

I provided plenty of easily findable evidence already. The burden of proof falls on to you, no matter how many times you try to dodge it. I don't want to keep going back and forth with you until you can actually provide counter evidence. Just saying you are right does not make it so. This will be my last reply to you until you actually bring something new to the table.

No, you provided a timeline that no one has to follow except the devs( and even then they dont have to also). So you've given no data on how they are the same. Because outside of the items no longer farmable. They aren't the same.

[Tunabros]

these guys dont even play on green or seen warders on blue

why the debate bruh

it's not like it applies to you

[DeathsSilkyMist]

these guys dont even play on green or seen warders on blue

why the debate bruh

it's not like it applies to you

Why the question about the debate? It isn't like the debate applies to you.

[Tunabros]

well it is because this is a public forum that anyone who has an account can speak on

[Dural_Levant]

Man, I didnt pay any attention to all this cause i didn't think i cared.. For some reason knowing we have 2 servers that are now the same, makes me want to go ahead and step away for good..

I don't even play on green, but green living and thriving with content we don't have, or already moved past- Made me happy for P99 players..

I'm kinda sad knowing where we are in P99 now... I wish half the population that has been no lifing it for the last decade would just quit and move on.. All servers are now run by the same people playing for 10years +.

Therefore no matter how many servers you make, we're gonna always run into the same issues, with the same people getting the same results in the end.

I think I partially share your sentiment...

I have been lurking around on the threads about the awakening the sleeper on Green. And I'm starting think there's strong case to be made for resetting the sleeper on Green like very few months or so.

It's hard for me to say that I have a dog in this fight; I'm much to casual of a player. I doubt I will ever get to Lvl. 60, let alone go on raids. But the idea that the content would be available to me, should I get there, does indeed appeal to me.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

well it is because this is a public forum that anyone who has an account can speak on

Looks like you answered your own question:)

[Chortles Snortles]

Got em

[Tentarro]

Got em

Did you just get unbanned again LMAO

[Castle2.0]

*yawn* Do something never been done before. Bunch of goobers with no imagination and brown-colored socks. Unimpressed =D

[Elijah850]

I don't care if they were to repop Kerafyrm on occasion, it would be fun and hopefully make the zone discoverable by people who dont want to partake in the only other viable substitute these days(Pay to win TLP), but I have done the content before and while it is fun it isn't in the cards for everyone now as it was back then if you have a life outside of Norrath that comes first in general.

What would be absolutely wonderful and almost a guaranteed way to refresh the Decade+ population of Project 1999 would be a full restart. Full Fresh Servers. If you were to retire Blue server and put a shelf life on Green while simultaneously announcing Fresh starts for both PvE and PvP Servers, it would be a death knell for some but I believe a boon to many who want it and some who would join for the first time in two decades after hearing it was on the horizon.

I would love to see the perma camped hold on the status quo be removed and a new page begun. I didn't play Blue, and dont get me wrong, I have enjoyed my time on Project 1999 since I started in Early 2020 on Green, but I think the next logical step If the true intent was to recapture the essence of those old days we cherish so much would be to for lack of a better word, delete the Pixel hoarders Cache while giving them an opportunity to prove their mettle on new beginning. I have a lot of cool stuff on Green and I have enjoyed the journey, but at the end and now it is undeniably a non classic extension of itself and I would love to give it all up for a fresh start that is run by the GMs we have here.

One thing TLPs have gotten right and the main reason they continue to release new Progression servers each year(and turn a profit) is because fun happens on the journey through memories made with the allies and adversaries on our path. This is my opinion and my dream for Project 1999 in the coming years. An end to an Era of one project and the beginning of what could be in a new start on Norrath reborn with all inhabitants on a level playing field with only the bonds of fellowship from another server to bind them.

Who can really wait for Legacy camps 2.0?!?!?!? Amirite? I wasn't prepared on Green but I got you sweaty sock puppets on the next go round!!! :D

[Ripqozko]

I don't care if they were to repop Kerafyrm on occasion, it would be fun and hopefully make the zone discoverable by people who dont want to partake in the only other viable substitute these days(Pay to win TLP), but I have done the content before and while it is fun it isn't in the cards for everyone now as it was back then if you have a life outside of Norrath that comes first in general.

What would be absolutely wonderful and almost a guaranteed way to refresh the Decade+ population of Project 1999 would be a full restart. Full Fresh Servers. If you were to retire Blue server and put a shelf life on Green while simultaneously announcing Fresh starts for both PvE and PvP Servers, it would be a death knell for some but I believe a boon to many who want it and some who would join for the first time in two decades after hearing it was on the horizon.

I would love to see the perma camped hold on the status quo be removed and a new page begun. I didn't play Blue, and dont get me wrong, I have enjoyed my time on Project 1999 since I started in Early 2020 on Green, but I think the next logical step If the true intent was to recapture the essence of those old days we cherish so much would be to for lack of a better word, delete the Pixel hoarders Cache while giving them an opportunity to prove their mettle on new beginning. I have a lot of cool stuff on Green and I have enjoyed the journey, but at the end and now it is undeniably a non classic extension of itself and I would love to give it all up for a fresh start that is run by the GMs we have here.

One thing TLPs have gotten right and the main reason they continue to release new Progression servers each year(and turn a profit) is because fun happens on the journey through memories made with the allies and adversaries on our path. This is my opinion and my dream for Project 1999 in the coming years. An end to an Era of one project and the beginning of what could be in a new start on Norrath reborn with all inhabitants on a level playing field with only the bonds of fellowship from another server to bind them.

Who can really wait for Legacy camps 2.0?!?!?!? Amirite? I wasn't prepared on Green but I got you sweaty sock puppets on the next go round!!! :D

Sorry you don’t got

[Infectious]

I don't care if they were to repop Kerafyrm on occasion, it would be fun and hopefully make the zone discoverable by people who dont want to partake in the only other viable substitute these days(Pay to win TLP), but I have done the content before and while it is fun it isn't in the cards for everyone now as it was back then if you have a life outside of Norrath that comes first in general.

What would be absolutely wonderful and almost a guaranteed way to refresh the Decade+ population of Project 1999 would be a full restart. Full Fresh Servers. If you were to retire Blue server and put a shelf life on Green while simultaneously announcing Fresh starts for both PvE and PvP Servers, it would be a death knell for some but I believe a boon to many who want it and some who would join for the first time in two decades after hearing it was on the horizon.

I would love to see the perma camped hold on the status quo be removed and a new page begun. I didn't play Blue, and dont get me wrong, I have enjoyed my time on Project 1999 since I started in Early 2020 on Green, but I think the next logical step If the true intent was to recapture the essence of those old days we cherish so much would be to for lack of a better word, delete the Pixel hoarders Cache while giving them an opportunity to prove their mettle on new beginning. I have a lot of cool stuff on Green and I have enjoyed the journey, but at the end and now it is undeniably a non classic extension of itself and I would love to give it all up for a fresh start that is run by the GMs we have here.

One thing TLPs have gotten right and the main reason they continue to release new Progression servers each year(and turn a profit) is because fun happens on the journey through memories made with the allies and adversaries on our path. This is my opinion and my dream for Project 1999 in the coming years. An end to an Era of one project and the beginning of what could be in a new start on Norrath reborn with all inhabitants on a level playing field with only the bonds of fellowship from another server to bind them.

Who can really wait for Legacy camps 2.0?!?!?!? Amirite? I wasn't prepared on Green but I got you sweaty sock puppets on the next go round!!! :D

Calm down lady. If Rogean decides that is the path, he shall take it. Sorry you didn't win.

[Tethler]

Got em

Lulz with the 10 month old thread necro, lol

[Chortles Snortles]

true thread necro'er deleted their post lol or was ban forum posts wiped

[Coridan]

Lulz with the 10 month old thread necro, lol



Holy shit it really was 10 months ago.

[TheIrateTurk]

CONGRATULATIONS! UPON REACHING THE 58TH PAGE I HAVE BEEN AWOKEN! You guys now get to hear my 2¢.

First let's get this out of the way. If a guy is too withdrawn to say the word "dick" or "shit" then he has bigger problems than Everquest.

I have no issue with people waking the sleeper. It's inevitable. Stop being salty. If they delayed it by a year would you somehow have completed the content it deletes? If the answer is yes, then it's your own fault for not organising yourself and doing it sooner. If the answer is no, then who cares, you are not impacted, nor would you ever be impacted on any relevant timeline. Stop being envious of people who were more competent than you. Take a step back and applaud them for their achievement.

Comparing Manastone to this situation is silly. You don't need to make this argument to be a proponent/ indifferent to Sleeper being awakened. It's like being innocent of a crime yet still going to prison because you have a bad lawyer.

The p99 devs want to emulate the classic experience as closely as possible. In classic what happened is they had the manastone, realised it was OP and stopped it dropping without removing the item. This means some people who were fortunate or forward thinking were able to have an item that was very powerful and exclusive. The p99 devs have recreated this situation quite well - there are indeed some people on Green who have the manastone and can be revered/ envied /whatever. I do not have a manastone. Part of my reptilian lizard brain feels like I missed out a bit that I do not have a manastone. This is a good thing. This is what Everquest is all about. Manastone was already not in the game by the time I started playing. I am not going to whine about it.

"THE DEVS CHOSE TO REMOVE MANASTONE, SO IF YOU BELIEVE ONLY A JERK WOULD WAKE THE SLEEPER, THEN YOU ARE INCONSISTENT IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THE DEVS ARE JERKS FOR REMOVING THE MANASTONE" is really not a good argument at all. They are not equivalent. You can worship the devs and kiss their feet no matter their stance on manastone while thinking Seal Team are jerks and be entirely consistent. I would argue that you are wrong but at least you would not be a hypocrite and we could have a conversation.

The devs are not the playerbase and cannot be treated as such. If a rapist kills your mother you can call the rapist a jerk. If she dies in a hurricane you can be upset and mad that she's dead, but it's not really productive to call the hurricane a jerk. The outcome is the same - your poor mother is no longer with us. But two different mechanisms have achieved this outcome and you'd be a fool for believing they were identical.

[Ooloo]

Dead Hurricane Moms <-- calling as a guild name

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The devs are not the playerbase and cannot be treated as such. If a rapist kills your mother you can call the rapist a jerk. If she dies in a hurricane you can be upset and mad that she's dead, but it's not really productive to call the hurricane a jerk. The outcome is the same - your poor mother is no longer with us. But two different mechanisms have achieved this outcome and you'd be a fool for believing they were identical.

This is a bad comparison. Nobody on earth has control over a Hurricane. P99, on the other hand, is built by humans, managed by humans, and designed to manipulate humans to play in a specific manner.

The only difference between Sleeper and Manastone is the dev's allowed Sleeper to be awoken by a player rather than a timer. Due to the high probability of Sleeper being awoken, there is technically no difference between a randomized timer and a player triggered event.

I am not sure why this logic is difficult.

[TheIrateTurk]

This is a bad comparison. Nobody on earth has control over a Hurricane. P99, on the other hand, is built by humans, managed by humans, and designed to manipulate humans to play in a specific manner.

The only difference between Sleeper and Manastone is the dev's allowed Sleeper to be awoken by a player rather than a timer. Due to the high probability of Sleeper being awoken, there is technically no difference between a randomized timer and a player triggered event.

I am not sure why this logic is difficult.

We essentially have no control over the humans that are in charge of p99. As far as us plebs are concerned, the devs are completely outside of the game. Force majeure. They are for all intents and purposes god. We are completely at their whim. The devs have a different motivation for their actions. Their goal is to recreate Classic Everquest and as far as my noob ass can tell they have tried to do this quite faithfully. They haven't added a minimap or quality of life changes. Maybe they have recreated elements of the game they personally disagree with, but have done so in order to replicate the game as it was.

It's like you getting angry with George RR Martin because he killed your favourite character. Completely pointless.

Look I am open to you being right about whether or not they have deviated from the original game as it was, but it clearly feels wrong to compare the devs removing manastone with a subset of the playerbase clearing content a consequence of which is it removes some content.

This is also why I have no problem with either action - we are aware before time that these are the conditions of the game we are playing with. If we object that much, we can spend our time doing something else.

If a gunman is about to shoot at me, and I duck, and the bullet hits a person behind me, this would be viewed to as very differently as if I had grabbed the person behind me and threw them in the path of the bullet. Same result but different judgement on my behaviour.

I don't think you can compare the devs and manastone to the playerbase. Maybe I am not articulate enough to argue it more clearly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It's like you getting angry with George RR Martin because he killed your favourite character. Completely pointless.


I think I may be assuming people know about game theory, which is my bad.

Video games have mechanics that apply game theory to steer players in the directions the developers want.

Sleeper is using game theory to steer players in the direction of waking it. This is why Sleeper was awoken on the vast majority of Everquest servers that have a healthy population (servers like Red don't count).

In reality you are designed to awaken the Sleeper, it isn't really a "choice". That is why it isn't different from a developer setting a random timer. It is designed to happen, and it does.

Video games are mostly an exercise in giving players the illusion of choice.

EDIT: Removing the story analogy to remove possible confusions. I just want to focus on the game theory aspect.

[Patrece]

This was implemented as a way for uber guilds to punish awful scumlings on their server. The sleeper stayed up on servers where guilds were amicable. I think it is great from that perspective and was warranted many times over on Green.

[Ripqozko]

Sorry you dont got warder loot, hope that helped.

[Jobaber]

Dude what the fuck dont wake the sleeper please.

[Swish]

well done, you win the prize. next server inc.

[Gustoo]

Dude what the fuck dont wake the sleeper please.

Hehe

When’s