Now that we have confirmed the competitive mechanics on p99 can be cheated...

[hotkarlmarxbros]

I think it is time we take this opportunity to look at what exactly can (and is!) being cheated, and rather than focus on the cheaters or the punishments we think they need to receive, focus on just fixing the fucking rules. For years this server had an easily exploitable "coth on pop" ruleset that can be gamed with pixel detection, log reading, or otherwise. You don't need to take my word for it, you can look at a six year old video that provides the exactly mechanism for doing this in stunning detail.

As far as the ruleset goes, I think we can agree that competitive > random. Both sides are in here saying essentially the same thing. They don't want to see competition killed on the server. One side is saying they don't want to see competition killed via permitting the use of automation to exploit the competitive mechanics (ie cheating). The other side is saying they don't want to see competition killed via leaving who-gets-what up to a simple roll of the dice. So we have to get rid of the cheating, and for a temporary measure the best we can do is roll some dice. Even though this is an interim solution, however, we need to tie up some loose ends. Specifically 1) how this /random is implemented and 2) to what exploitable engages this /random needs to apply.

Problem 1: Regardless of the size of the entity, they only get one roller.

Talks abound around this one already. So we are giving guilds that muster a force to barely kill charity Vindis that they ask other guilds to leave alone for half a day so they can take as much time doing it as possible get the same slice of the EV pie as a guild who brings 186 to AoW? That is a glaring flaw in this implementation. This turns it into a solution that the majority of competitive raiders don't want to see. The eventuality is we see alts parked in new guilds, leading the charge for <South Qeynos Bait and Tackle> and <Not Riot> and <Internet Tough Guys>. Or worse yet, 30 unguilded raiders and 100 random new guilds rolling, with all the unguilded people suddenly earning spots on the new guilds roster.

Solution: anyone individual raider interested in the mob gets a roll

Have it be the same as angry. 10 seconds from the first roll, roll on spawn. This way you get a fair representation from all interested parties, and you don't have to worry about nonsense alt guilds showing up trying to game the system. Likely far more interest, so /ran 10000 to reduce ties. Badain already works like this, this should be an easy application of the standard here.

Problem 2: One hour lockout

This makes even less sense than the previous issue. The pathing in Kael is terrible, yes. The solution? FTE earns you a 5 minute lockout. While it is terrible, it isn't "take more than 5 minutes to get the mob to your camp" terrible. All sorts of shenanigans can occur in an hour. The aforementioned 'brand new guild' can take on conveniently guildless and eager members, or people can start shuffling around and dropping and retagging in an hour.

Solution: Winning the random earns you a 5 minute lockout, the same as if you had won FTE.

This will minimize the fuckery that can occur in an hour, and minimize the amount of time interested entities have to stick around to watch another entity, who was either genuinely incapable of killing the target, or just trolling the roll, to sort itself out. No need to implement penalties, just move on to the next guild with the highest roller and start their five minutes after the mob has reset to its spawn and the initial winning guild's 5 minutes have expired. These could be announced after the roll when sorting the winner, eg: "Vanquish first: 97392, Kittens second: 95359, Riot third: 95204."

Problem 3: Mobs going FFA after the one hour lockout

There is no reasonable way to sort the legitimate FTE after "one hour." I promise that under this current implementation, if it goes FFA after one hour, the bean counters will be out in full force and any guild that wins the initial roll and doesn't kill it, the guild that doesn't get fte after "one hour" where previous rulings have been made where "we don't count seconds" are going to result in a petition. Every. Single. Time.

Solution: Sort it out from the jump, don't leave it to more exploitation which we are trying to move away from in the first place.

See above how announcing the order of attempts/5 minute lockouts would address this issue.

Exploitable engages 1: "racing" for Prog and MoTG

How many times we need to see a certain ranger jump off the line faster than everyone else and, instead of turning normally, continue running into the wall and faceplant. Like I said initially though, it isn't about who is doing this, rather that it can be done at all. Not to mention the non-script fudging of the rules. The start line is before the door, but people tap forward so that they won't clip into the door on mob pop. Is this against the rules? Yes. But because it is so prevalent, it becomes the de facto strategy where now you have the majority of racers, if not all of them, essentially breaking the rules. We need our interim /random solution applied here as well until we can think of competitive mechanics that aren't vulnerable to pixel detection.

Exploitable engages 2: Lodi

Lodi, and any clickfest target, is extremely vulnerable to outside automation. Why sit at your desk and click a 'pet kill' macro like a rube when instead you can...not do that and win. We have seen people win Lodi FTEs against a dozen+ other sweaty, hungry turtle hunters and then proceed to not budge in the slightest while it kills them, ie AFK FTEs. As soon as this happened the first time this entire process should've been set in motion, but now that we are here and able to acknowledge that yes, people are making use of external programs to trivialize the content, while others play in earnest only to lose hours and hours of their lives and lose to others who are cheating so egregiously that they aren't even at their PC when they win. What a joke. Apply the /random here and spend some time thinking up a more worthwhile mechanic by which to make it competitive.

Exploitable engages 3: Yelinak, Doze, Nev, Jorl, Fear golems/CT, Ikky, Gore, Sev, VP, Takish, Trak

All of these are races. All of these are vulnerable to people automating their launch off or the line or coth macro when some pixels change on their bind sight or screen share. If the rules say that you need to be staring at your monitor waiting for an event to happen, the entire possibility that others can completely circumvent that and watch netflix or whatever else and remain competitive is the biggest bullshit of all. And what happens then is that the winner of the race then gets to bring their mob into camp with all the buffer time in the world to respond to their batphone. It isn't a stall because its "headed towards camp," which is vague and, more often than not, not the case where the mob starts pathing all kinds of wacky directions. The solution here is not to /rand off the mobs, rather, to mitigate all this 'free time' that winning the race earns you. The mob needs to be 96% within one minute of FTE to eliminate any concern that it was 'untanked' and 'not having to count seconds' and that a small minority of cheaters can dictate the competitive raid scene and lock others out of mobs. No more CT running around for 45 minutes at 100% and saying it isn't a stall. No more Yeli or Doze "was he or wasn't he in range to be hit while they held fte, and did it amount to more than 24 seconds." Get the mobs in summoning range with your raid force to remove all doubt, or get the fuck out of here with your solo hero FTE from a script bullshit.

Bonus exploits: Bard circles, conceding mobs you competed for after they are stable in the other guild's camp, and weaponizing Vulak blocker concessions

This is not related to the immediate issue that the cheating and /random roll is trying to address, but I felt like I had to say it. What the fuck is going on here with this. Bards running perfect circles monopolizing camps with negligible amounts of risk to powerlevel alts and bots through the most arduous part of the leveling process? They have been doing it since Velious launched on p99, and probably before that too. I don't know a fix for this that is in line with the vision of "classic," but perfect circle 25 mob kites definitely wasn't classic, and if it had've reared its ugly head back in the day, you can be the original developers would've shut that shit down immediately.

Similarly to the 'what the fuck is going on here' above, why do we consider a concession valid for a mob that you JUST competed for forcing the opposing guild to go into hurry-up-offense mode and possibly forced an error? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see two or more competing entities acquiesce to this precedent and not stomp their feet and try to get this shit out of here. Mobs you concede should only count for the next valid FTE. You should in no way be able to 'concede' a target you are in no way eligible to kill. Holy hell, how fucking dumb to think anything otherwise.

Lastly, weaponizing Vulak blocker concessions, or any concessions at all really (*cough* Hoshkar) is really out of the spirit of what a concession is trying to achieve. Concessions should last no longer than a generous amount of time for the opposing guild to have a shot at the mob they were competing for at the exact moment. What mob takes more than an hour to FTE and resultingly kill? Concessions should be for one hour. After that, ample time has been given, no reason to continue to not be allowed to go for the mob.

On that same note of changes that are strictly for the better, thank god the 30 minute lockout went away. What a dumb rule that was. Your whole guild has to sit on the sidelines and watch someone else kill something while not being able to contest anything else because....???? Dumb rule, glad to see it gone, has done a lot to encourage competition and fair play. Tracker FTE similarly could use another look as well, but I'm not so certain that it is strictly bad like the previously mentioned topics.

I'm not married to any of these ideas, so if you see a problem with something I said, or had an even better idea of your own, I'd love to hear it. For those of you who just show up to lie, gaslight, and invent your own reality: sorry your life is miserable, don't take that out on the rest of us, I hope things get better for you.

[Strifer]

Still think rap battles for FTE best option.

[Bardp1999]

Problem: No life Neckbeards get super mad when they waste incredible amounts of time trying to secure pixels and end up failing

Solution: uninstall

[Flyrr]

Great post there smashh, always showing Riot's true colors. If you can't win, change the game. Nevermind getting better at it

[hotkarlmarxbros]

Great post there smashh, always showing Riot's true colors. If you can't win, change the game. Nevermind getting better at it

bro you are dyslexic, everybody knows you didnt read more than a sentence of that. congrats project lightning or any other display of literacy that would embarrass even a third grader much less an adult. its time to let the people capable of reading the thread discuss the issues described.

[Viscere]

Your guild is dead and you are unable to compete on 75% of the content, it is only normal that you attempt to lobby for free pixels and are locked with a carebear / victim attitude

/thread

[hotkarlmarxbros]

Your guild is dead and you are unable to compete on 75% of the content, it is only normal that you attempt to lobby for free pixels and are locked with a carebear / victim attitude

/thread

You've never competed for anything, you're a warmbody that barely raids anyway, nobody expects you to understand that the way your 'not dead' guild got pixels was cheating. You're bad at eq, you're bad at rnf, and nobody would miss you if you left either.

[Viscere]

I pulled a sensitive string it seems

[Slippy]

This is a lot to read, these all can be simplified.

Just ask for the solution to your 1st problem that only those guilds that participated in the draft / those that can kill vindi should be able to roll. GMs don't even need to agree to that, it can be a player agreement. If some new alliance wants to roll, make sure they aren't wasting time being dipshits and have their alliance kill vindi to prove it.

[18120]

Vanq still super mad they got caught cheating.

[SantagarBrax]

Vanq still super mad they got caught cheating.

I don't represent any guild in this discussion, just a passionate player with the best interests of all in game.


Unchainedfury <Vanquish>

[Ooloo]

P99 Book 4: Chapter 9, section 2b: The Betrayal

[Philistine]

First: OP - I appreciate how thoughtfully and calmly you laid our your position. It's clear that it's not a rant, but rather a carefully considered suggestion.

I haven't done a ton of competitive raiding, though I have done some, so I don't have the same amount of skin in the game as Vanquish or Riot members, but I think the changes are good.

I don't see the problem with just 3 major raid targets going to random. I think what the top guilds haven't considered much is the Ex Astra, TSS, and Aegis types of guilds; guilds that are very capable, but not to the extent of being able to have 50-100 members on char select parked on multiple targets 16 hours at a time. I think it makes sense to open up some of the targets to guilds like this so they can experience that part of the game too more frequently than onceish a year in the draft.

And the rolls will still heavily favor the large raiding guilds; once targets get much out of guilds' prime time, they'll likely have to hang up the towel and hope for better luck next time. Or maybe they'll team up with another couple of guilds for the roll, which will still reduce the number of groups rolling and allow folks to meet new people on this very social game, which doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

Also, soooo many raid targets are still not going to be /random. The top guilds can still have their fun on those!

Last but not least, with 3ish quakes a month we're probably looking at just 1 or 2 respawns going to random per month. That doesn't seem like too heavy of a price to me for the health of the server of the time of our volunteer GMs.

[Slonekb05]

I quit reading after everyone rolls

[wuanahto]

Why not just over-saturate the raid scene and make all spawns with a 12 hour timer and double the loot?
people surely cant be raiding that hard for all their alts forever, right?

after 12 years the only solution not attempted is to burn them out

[Naethyn]

If only the tab jumpers, scripters, and all the rest hadn't got so overconfident they literally frapsed themselves doing it.

[hotkarlmarxbros]

If only the tab jumpers, scripters, and all the rest hadn't got so overconfident they literally frapsed themselves doing it.

That is really what it had to come down to isn't it? Crazy right?

People complain that engagements can be cheated: GMs switch between coth rules and race rules 3-4 times, both of which can be cheated the same

Kickenit makes a video showing the engagements can be cheated and need to be changed: GMs ban him for submitting evidence the mechanics are exploitable

Joria makes a video showing how significant an outlier Stunninglys reaction time is to discredit it as statistically impossible: Sits on the GMs desk for months until its eventual dismissal

Stunninglys videos showing him describing how to write pixel detection and log reading scripts and then shows him using them in EQ as long as SIX YEARS AGO: GMs, no longer able to run interference for the obvious cheating that is going on, finally have their hands forced and remove 3 exploitable engagements while a dozen or so are left unchanged and vulnerable.

It is just a move to placate the masses, do damage control for the server image, and appeal to the box owners as 'hey see we are doing our job kinda.' The problem is that the uproar dies down when the masses are thrown a bone like a /random kael/dain. There are still vulnerable engages that are going to continue to be cheated, and the only thing that will stop the cheaters is if they submit video evidence of them cheating these specific engagements. Requiring that absurd level of proof in order to take action really makes you think about the motives of the current active GMs.

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/SPTJayC.jpg

[DeliciousHalflings]

This all sounds childish and stupid. Grow up and use a sign-up schedule like the servers on live did that weren't riddled with dipshits. Apparently there were only 2 servers back in the day that could function on a normal social spectrum. P99 = the most autistic MMO community there is.

[Samoht]

This all sounds childish and stupid. Grow up and use a sign-up schedule like the servers on live did that weren't riddled with dipshits. Apparently there were only 2 servers back in the day that could function on a normal social spectrum. P99 = the most autistic MMO community there is.

Using live as a benchmark is ridiculous unless we plan on matching their re-pop schedule.

Live servers reset every.single.Tuesday.

You knew when 7 day targets would be up and exactly when they would be up. 3/5 day targets were killed on a first come/first serve basis.

Quit suggesting these hybrid solutions for the sake of false classic memories. Either go full classic or go away.

[Ennewi]

Never go full classic.

[Trexller]

Problem: bored raiders poopsocking targets spam RnF with their unresolved angst

Solution: reduce all boss spawn timers to 8 hours or less, so that they can kill mobs and move on with their lives. They will at least get a few breaths of fresh air, and not just because the doordash guy arrived. They might even bathe!

Its a public service, this is about human health.

[Nibblewitz]

Congrats OP on the full sized keyboard.

[Droxx]

Problem: No life Neckbeards get super mad when they waste incredible amounts of time trying to secure pixels and end up failing

Solution: uninstall

[DeliciousHalflings]

Using live as a benchmark is ridiculous unless we plan on matching their re-pop schedule.

Live servers reset every.single.Tuesday.

Then have things respawn every. Single. Tuesday. Instead of the earthquake bullshit. Limit that crap to once a month or major holidays. Congrats, you solved your own problem AND made yourself look dumber for it. That's a fucking feat and a half.

Simple fucking solution for simple minded dipshits in the p99 raid scene. Imagine being able to actually PLAY your character instead of being forced to stay camped out and buffed most of the time.

If people actually stuck to a schedule, there wouldn't be need for this circle jerk bullshit excuse for 'competition' from people who never accomplished shit in the real game and feel the need to make up for it by pixel hoarding.

Watching you morons interact is like seeing 2 clown cars in a head of collision.

[Kohedron]

The drama on RnF gets me so fucking hard

[Twochain]

Then have things respawn every. Single. Tuesday. Instead of the earthquake bullshit. Limit that crap to once a month or major holidays. Congrats, you solved your own problem AND made yourself look dumber for it. That's a fucking feat and a half.

Simple fucking solution for simple minded dipshits in the p99 raid scene. Imagine being able to actually PLAY your character instead of being forced to stay camped out and buffed most of the time.

If people actually stuck to a schedule, there wouldn't be need for this circle jerk bullshit excuse for 'competition' from people who never accomplished shit in the real game and feel the need to make up for it by pixel hoarding.

Watching you morons interact is like seeing 2 clown cars in a head of collision.

From what i understand, not only was there one every like Tuesday, but often times 1 or 2 more a week due to server resets.

I wouldn't know, I was level 20 at the time. But that's what I heard.

[Samoht]

Then have things respawn every. Single. Tuesday. Instead of the earthquake bullshit. Limit that crap to once a month or major holidays. Congrats, you solved your own problem AND made yourself look dumber for it. That's a fucking feat and a half.

Simple fucking solution for simple minded dipshits in the p99 raid scene. Imagine being able to actually PLAY your character instead of being forced to stay camped out and buffed most of the time.

If people actually stuck to a schedule, there wouldn't be need for this circle jerk bullshit excuse for 'competition' from people who never accomplished shit in the real game and feel the need to make up for it by pixel hoarding.

Watching you morons interact is like seeing 2 clown cars in a head of collision.

lol - this moran thinks players control quake schedule

[Swish]

This thread reminds me of http://agathascience.ytmnd.com

All about that advantage

[starkind]

This thread reminds me of http://agathascience.ytmnd.com

All about that advantage

Quoting so I can find it again.

[cd288]

OP listen man everyone has hobbies and all, and we obviously all love EQ, but you should press pause to consider what you just did. You just wrote a treatise on raiding on a private emulated server of a 23 year old MMO with less than a thousand people on it. You wrote this treatise because you’re upset that the first shot at a raid mob is going to be determined by a random roll.

If you honestly care this much about the fact that it may take you slightly longer to hear your 10th alt out in BIS everything, and you’re upset because smaller non Zerg guilds might get to occasionally kill a raid target, you really need to take a step back and consider whether you need to take a break from this game.

We all love classic EQ but there is a limit to what’s healthy. I think you’re getting pretty close to exceeding that limit if you haven’t already

[starkind]

This thread reminds me of http://agathascience.ytmnd.com

All about that advantage
Finally got around to checking it out.

Ya lol

[Crede]

OP listen man everyone has hobbies and all, and we obviously all love EQ, but you should press pause to consider what you just did. You just wrote a treatise on raiding on a private emulated server of a 23 year old MMO with less than a thousand people on it. You wrote this treatise because you’re upset that the first shot at a raid mob is going to be determined by a random roll.

If you honestly care this much about the fact that it may take you slightly longer to hear your 10th alt out in BIS everything, and you’re upset because smaller non Zerg guilds might get to occasionally kill a raid target, you really need to take a step back and consider whether you need to take a break from this game.

We all love classic EQ but there is a limit to what’s healthy. I think you’re getting pretty close to exceeding that limit if you haven’t already

Like any pleasure in life if it can be abused it absolutely will be. The amount of effort that some people put into both the game and forums here continues to surprise me and if their lives are that out of balance then I genuinely feel bad for them.

[DeliciousHalflings]

lol - this moran thinks players control quake schedule

Uh, no? Your reading comprehension sucks for you to come to that asinine conclusion. Nowhere did I even allude to players controlling earthquakes.

[Samoht]

Then have things respawn every. Single. Tuesday. Instead of the earthquake bullshit. Limit that crap to once a month or major holidays. Congrats, you solved your own problem AND made yourself look dumber for it. That's a fucking feat and a half.

^ here it is. This is where the moran tells me to make it quake every single tuesday.

[cd288]

^ here it is. This is where the moran tells me to make it quake every single tuesday.

I think you just proved him right that you have terrible reading comprehension lol

[Samoht]

The post I quoted started with an implied subject and later defined it as YOU. YOU is a pronoun, second person in this case. I was the person replied to, therefor I am YOU.

It's not that hard. Maybe yall shouldn't use shit grammar and try to make fun of people for calling you out on your shit grammar.

Doesn't make him any less of a moran. I still cannot control quakes.

[Naethyn]

Quakes are competitive p99 raiding. Everything else is a poopsock. Anyone who doesn’t want quakes also doesn’t want competition. The reality is they want to keep the old status quo and lord over pixels, not competition. Only want to play competitive Everquest? Don’t show up for the roll.

[-TK-]

Quakes are competitive p99 raiding. Everything else is a poopsock. Anyone who doesn’t want quakes also doesn’t want competition. The reality is they want to keep the old status quo and lord over pixels, not competition. Only want to play competitive Everquest? Don’t show up for the roll.

This exactly as long as the staff quakes as often as they are saying they will.

[Samoht]

Quakes are competitive p99 raiding. Everything else is a poopsock. Anyone who doesn’t want quakes also doesn’t want competition. The reality is they want to keep the old status quo and lord over pixels, not competition. Only want to play competitive Everquest? Don’t show up for the roll.

Nobody is complaining about increased quake frequency. You're conflating two different things here.

The rolls on respawn are anti-competitive and will just put more life support to a guild that fought tooth and nail against allowing new entities into their happy little rotations.

There are valid concerns regarding the proposed frequency in quakes, however, as in the past the server was promised multiple quakes a month and still averaged less than 1.

Only follow-through on the promise by server staff will ease these concerns, but never eliminate them as the quakes could fall off again like they did last time.

[Naethyn]

So we are worried about a hypothetical situation that may occur based on past experiences on this server. That's fine. Lets try this, and when change is needed again it will happen. For now, quakes are competition. Rolls are also training your competition on beating these mobs. This is going to be one of the greatest ages of competition on the server, and worrying about possible future situations doesn't really matter right now.

[Naethyn]

Unless of course this isn't really about hypothetical situations in the future, and it is actually about not being able to lord over pixels by poopsock. If that is the case, sorry you didn't get to lordship.

[Samoht]

Lets try this, and when change is needed again it will happen.

So if these changes (rolls on ring war, bag limits, rolls on kael/dain spawn) are from Riot crying, how is there honor in ridiculing their main competitor for having complaints about the changes?

That's honestly the main issue here. Riot cries and cries and cries until they get their way while still acting sanctimoniously in the UN and refusing to concede on a lot of their faults (remember the Silverwing tracker FTE situation that their leadership REFUSED to acknowledge as tracker FTE and their regular members had to force them to post the concession?!). Not to mention how they acted when originally approached by Freedom/Vanquish leadership to make changes to the raid meta about how things were fine like they were.

But now that they've lost any leverage for bargaining, they've resorted to fabricating evidence of cheating and crying to GMs to get changes.

These are not organic changes to benefit the server or all parties involved. These changes serve one purpose: to extend the raiding viability of Riot officers that still have DKP to spend.

Once the rest of yall look past your petty squabbles with Vanquish leadership, you'll realize how toxic this has been for the server.

[Naethyn]

Again, what about the new meta is not fostering more competition? Is this really about past gripes not being resolved? Is it about constant cheating that has shifted each meta by the same person? Step back and think if you really want competition, or if you actually just want to justify lording over pixels from past wrong doings. Stop worrying about hypothetical situations in the future. We are here now, and it’s not because of complaining - it’s because cheating and doing anything to maintain pixel lordship.

[Reiwa]

Nobody is complaining about increased quake frequency. You're conflating two different things here.

The rolls on respawn are anti-competitive and will just put more life support to a guild that fought tooth and nail against allowing new entities into their happy little rotations.

There are valid concerns regarding the proposed frequency in quakes, however, as in the past the server was promised multiple quakes a month and still averaged less than 1.

Only follow-through on the promise by server staff will ease these concerns, but never eliminate them as the quakes could fall off again like they did last time.

What makes you think compliance is optional based on quake frequency, bossypants?

[hotkarlmarxbros]

Nobody is complaining about increased quake frequency. You're conflating two different things here.

The rolls on respawn are anti-competitive and will just put more life support to a guild that fought tooth and nail against allowing new entities into their happy little rotations.

There are valid concerns regarding the proposed frequency in quakes, however, as in the past the server was promised multiple quakes a month and still averaged less than 1.

Only follow-through on the promise by server staff will ease these concerns, but never eliminate them as the quakes could fall off again like they did last time.

Why are rolls anti-competitive but having engagements that are exploitable not anti-competitive?

[Prismaticshop]

Rolling for pixel foodstamps is as uncompetitive as it gets

just root Dain/Kael, and watch guilds move to targets (you do it in NtoV already, and this works well, why not do it in Kael?)

[Samoht]

Why are rolls anti-competitive but having engagements that are exploitable not anti-competitive?

First of all, just because something is exploitable does not mean it has been exploited. The only proven cheater at this point is a Riot officer named Kickenit. Nobody wanted a rules change for the infraction. It would have been satisfactory with a punishment for the player/guild.

Second, rolling swings the solution too far into the other direction. At least ring roll allows a week of competitive turn ins. Why wasn't this mirrored for kael/dain? Why is there zero feedback or discussion with GMs for tuning this decision or proposing alternatives?

Players from both sides need to be allowed at the table. Since Riot now has an officer embedded as a GM, the only solution is to also promote a player from Vanquish to be GM.

[cd288]

Again, what about the new meta is not fostering more competition? Is this really about past gripes not being resolved? Is it about constant cheating that has shifted each meta by the same person? Step back and think if you really want competition, or if you actually just want to justify lording over pixels from past wrong doings. Stop worrying about hypothetical situations in the future. We are here now, and it’s not because of complaining - it’s because cheating and doing anything to maintain pixel lordship.

Honestly this should be the last post in the thread. These losers really just want to have their own Zerg guild own everything on an emulated server for a 23 year old game. It’s the saddest thing.

They go from Zerg guild to Zerg guild. It’s vanquish, before that it was riot, before that it was guilds like aftermath. It’s the same core people for ten years who somehow care this much…it’s honestly crazy how they could have nothing going for themselves in RL such that this is what they spend their time getting wound up about. This is a hobby and they treat it like their lives.

[cd288]

The post I quoted started with an implied subject and later defined it as YOU. YOU is a pronoun, second person in this case. I was the person replied to, therefor I am YOU.

It's not that hard. Maybe yall shouldn't use shit grammar and try to make fun of people for calling you out on your shit grammar.

Doesn't make him any less of a moran. I still cannot control quakes.

Again I think you’re just proving your poor reading comprehension and explaining why to you won’t work because if you have poor reading comprehension you won’t be able to understand it lol

[Samoht]

Again I think you’re just proving your poor reading comprehension and explaining why to you won’t work because if you have poor reading comprehension you won’t be able to understand it lol

Got it. Riot idiots have their own language that looks like English, but has a whole other meaning that only Riot idiots understand.

[zati]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSborxD6avQ

[Ennewi]

Players from both sides need to be allowed at the table.

The table is round, unless you're of the guild vs guild mindset.

Since Riot now has an officer embedded as a GM, the only solution is to also promote a player from Vanquish to be GM.

<Vanquish> versus GMs? <Harakiri>

[hotkarlmarxbros]

First of all, just because something is exploitable does not mean it has been exploited. The only proven cheater at this point is a Riot officer named Kickenit. Nobody wanted a rules change for the infraction. It would have been satisfactory with a punishment for the player/guild.

Second, rolling swings the solution too far into the other direction. At least ring roll allows a week of competitive turn ins. Why wasn't this mirrored for kael/dain? Why is there zero feedback or discussion with GMs for tuning this decision or proposing alternatives?

Players from both sides need to be allowed at the table. Since Riot now has an officer embedded as a GM, the only solution is to also promote a player from Vanquish to be GM.

So anything short of submitting video evidence of the individuals themselves actively cheating means that no cheating is occurring? Despite the fact that the engagements have been proven to be exploitable? And that nobody actively looking to benefit from said cheating would ever submit proof of themselves cheating unless they were doing it to show the engagement is exploitable so it gets fixed?

I mean, I get it. You're being deliberately obtuse to continue running the distraction in an attempt to get the engagements to remain as-is so that your team who has been actively cheating the engagements can continue being able to do so. I'm more putting this out there for the other people reading to understand how hypocritical you are being when you are saying you don't want /random to kill competition when the alternative is just as anti-competitive, only strictly benefitting any team that cheats. And that the bar for it to be proved that anybody is cheating is to submit a video of yourself doing it, otherwise anything goes.

[Samoht]

So anything short of submitting video evidence of the individuals themselves actively cheating means that no cheating is occurring? Despite the fact that the engagements have been proven to be exploitable? And that nobody actively looking to benefit from said cheating would ever submit proof of themselves cheating unless they were doing it to show the engagement is exploitable so it gets fixed?

I mean, I get it. You're being deliberately obtuse to continue running the distraction in an attempt to get the engagements to remain as-is so that your team who has been actively cheating the engagements can continue being able to do so. I'm more putting this out there for the other people reading to understand how hypocritical you are being when you are saying you don't want /random to kill competition when the alternative is just as anti-competitive, only strictly benefitting any team that cheats. And that the bar for it to be proved that anybody is cheating is to submit a video of yourself doing it, otherwise anything goes.

No, you're the one being intentionally obtuse. You want to believe Vanq racers are cheating, so you're willing to accept the Riot koolaid to "confirm" that they are. It's funny that you say "your team" because you're also on the team and haven't removed yourself over this issue last I checked.

But you're still focusing on the wrong thing. The biggest problem here is that Riot gets their way by crying to GMs, one of which is a Riot officer. They're getting these sweeping changers to relegate every contested mob to a roll-off or bag limits so they get a free minimum 20% of ToV mobs to sustain their low effort pixel welfare.

Why wasn't there an open discussion like previous raid rules changes between the major guilds involved? Why are these changes being made without input from Vanquish? It almost just like when the guild first started with whatever name it had and Riot refused to acknowledge them to allow them into raid rotations.

Why is Vanquish still being treated like an entity without any say in the policies on the server that directly impact Vanquish?

[hotkarlmarxbros]

Framing the argument that Riot wants engagements to not be cheatable as crying is pretty telling. Saying that because the threshold for the burden of proof is to submit a video of yourself cheating means that in no way was anybody other than Kickenit cheating is pretty telling. Saying that Riot is somehow culpable of exploiting the engages for submitting a video showing that the engages can be cheated and to please at the very least change them to something that can't be cheated is pretty telling.

Nobody believes the nonsense you are saying no matter how many times you or other RNF warriors show up to spout it. The game isn't competitive when the engagements are exploitable. Fix the engagements so people other than those who are morally bankrupt can play the game and compete.

[Ennewi]

First of all, just because something is exploitable does not mean it has been exploited.

06-12-2021, 09:47 PM
Menden
Server GM

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: The Nexus
Posts: 6,216
Default Tunare
Tunare’s call seems to be broken. Until we determine what exactly is breaking her call, any entity that wishes to kill Tunare, must clear the zone.

[Samoht]

The game isn't competitive when the engagements are exploitable. Fix the engagements so people other than those who are morally bankrupt can play the game and compete.

The game is also not competitive by handing out welfare pixels to anybody who can roll. You ignored my point that Vanquish wasn't even invited to the discussion. The only people involved were Riot officers and GMs.

That's why crying was and still is the correct way to phrase it.

[myrddraal]

10 over immersed neckbeards on suicide watch over recent changes

[hotkarlmarxbros]

The game is also not competitive by handing out welfare pixels to anybody who can roll. You ignored my point that Vanquish wasn't even invited to the discussion. The only people involved were Riot officers and GMs.

That's why crying was and still is the correct way to phrase it.

What makes you think there was some secret discussion between Riot and GMs and the GMs didn't just decide to do this after the influx of complaints that finally tipped the scales with Stunningly having tutorials on how to exploit the p99 engages?

[Samoht]

What makes you think there was some secret discussion between Riot and GMs and the GMs didn't just decide to do this after the influx of complaints that finally tipped the scales with Stunningly having tutorials on how to exploit the p99 engages?

Because there's a Riot officer that is a GM now... Somebody noticed him twitch streaming and he accidentally logged into his GM client on stream instead of his player account.

[Naethyn]

And there we have it. We have unlocked the final ree. Accusing the admins of favoritism. Natural evolution I suppose. We’ve all been there.

[starkind]

Riots r bad guys. Stop glorifying the murder of innocent children. And the burning of their futures and parents livelihood.

[eladrimar]

Because there's a Riot officer that is a GM now... Somebody noticed him twitch streaming and he accidentally logged into his GM client on stream instead of his player account.

Fraps?

[Trexller]

Because there's a Riot officer that is a GM now... Somebody noticed him twitch streaming and he accidentally logged into his GM client on stream instead of his player account.

how do you come in here and say that without at the very least, naming names or otherwise prove it?

I believe it, but you're gonna have to do alot better if you want results.

otherwise you wasted your breathe.

[cd288]

Got it. Riot idiots have their own language that looks like English, but has a whole other meaning that only Riot idiots understand.

Lol can’t accept that other rational people could realize what a shitty guild he is in and what a shitty person he is. Nah they must just be a riot neckbeard!

[cd288]

how do you come in here and say that without at the very least, naming names or otherwise prove it?

I believe it, but you're gonna have to do alot better if you want results.

otherwise you wasted your breathe.

Because he’d have to name a staff member and will then get banned (because he’d be lying and making it up about said staff member)

[nyclin]

Because there's a Riot officer that is a GM now... Somebody noticed him twitch streaming and he accidentally logged into his GM client on stream instead of his player account.

got a link for this?

[SantagarBrax]

So anything short of submitting video evidence of the individuals themselves actively cheating means that no cheating is occurring? Despite the fact that the engagements have been proven to be exploitable? And that nobody actively looking to benefit from said cheating would ever submit proof of themselves cheating unless they were doing it to show the engagement is exploitable so it gets fixed?

I mean, I get it. You're being deliberately obtuse to continue running the distraction in an attempt to get the engagements to remain as-is so that your team who has been actively cheating the engagements can continue being able to do so. I'm more putting this out there for the other people reading to understand how hypocritical you are being when you are saying you don't want /random to kill competition when the alternative is just as anti-competitive, only strictly benefitting any team that cheats. And that the bar for it to be proved that anybody is cheating is to submit a video of yourself doing it, otherwise anything goes.

So let's move the discussion phase onto a better path forward that renders the ability to script moot. I envision making the FTE's more difficult, not less. Add in elements that require great sophistication and a little more panache. The problem with this scenario will be more petitions for mistakes, thus countering Staff's seeming goal of "as much hands off as possible". I could be wrong about this assumption.

Feedback from staff would be critical moving forward, which would provide us with a base of operations to freely brainstorm within.

[SantagarBrax]

"greater sophistication" *edit

[Bardp1999]

I played WoW with all the ex Aftermath guys when we defeated the server and left as triumphant overlords, at least one of them was a guide while also actively playing for a while - I think it was Oleris?

[Viscere]

This tends to happen, so what?

[Bardp1999]

People are acting like Samoht is crazy, giving an example as to how he is not as this has already happened before

[Viscere]

He ain't crazy

GMs are picked mostly from the raid scene, because they have to have experienced it in order to police it.

[Bardp1999]

https://i.imgur.com/l8fgZD3.jpg

[starkind]

https://i.imgur.com/QsMXhDJ.jpeg

[cd288]

People are acting like Samoht is crazy, giving an example as to how he is not as this has already happened before

I’m not saying he’s crazy, but I would put money on it not being true considering he’s had plenty opportunity to say who it is and won’t

[DeliciousHalflings]

And there we have it. We have unlocked the final ree. Accusing the admins of favoritism. Natural evolution I suppose. We’ve all been there.

It's happened before. I was in IB pre-Kunark on Blue. Trystych and a few others were legit cheating, the GMs knew, and did nothing (except for Parun RIP). Figured it was better to keep my mouth shut and rake in the free pixels. MQ2 maps, RMT. Fuck, they even got someone to continually crash PoFear until TMO, VD, and DA all gave up and we cleared the zone then pulled an uncontested Cazic after 10+ hours in the zone.

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's something that actually happens a lot on private servers. Power in a cirtual community goes to people's heads real fast when they have none IRL

[cd288]

It's happened before. I was in IB pre-Kunark on Blue. Trystych and a few others were legit cheating, the GMs knew, and did nothing (except for Parun RIP). Figured it was better to keep my mouth shut and rake in the free pixels. MQ2 maps, RMT. Fuck, they even got someone to continually crash PoFear until TMO, VD, and DA all gave up and we cleared the zone then pulled an uncontested Cazic after 10+ hours in the zone.

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's something that actually happens a lot on private servers. Power in a cirtual community goes to people's heads real fast when they have none IRL

Ok he can name the GM in question then right? But he hasn’t…wonder why…..

[OuterChimp]

Notice nobody complains about the Teal Server. We don't have these issues.

[DeliciousHalflings]

Ok he can name the GM in question then right? But he hasn’t…wonder why…..

That part he's blowing smoke most likely, but it's most assuredly happened in the past. Not sure about now, but Blue does have a rancid history of past GM's fucking with things to benefit their friends/people RMTing to them.

[cd288]

That part he's blowing smoke most likely, but it's most assuredly happened in the past. Not sure about now, but Blue does have a rancid history of past GM's fucking with things to benefit their friends/people RMTing to them.

Ok but we’re not talking about the past we’re talking about the current status on the server

[DeliciousHalflings]

Ok but we’re not talking about the past we’re talking about the current status on the server

Oh, I don't give a flying fuck about current p99. The raid scene has always been a cesspool. It's pointless to play here unless you want to just farm gear for other people at 3am when your bathphone goes off. Sure, everyone may get geared up from trash drops, but the odds of ever seeing those couple real niche pieces in a zerglord sperglord clusterfuck with like 100 other people there? Good fucking luck. This game isn't good enough to waste that much time on.

[Smoofers]

Oh, I don't give a flying fuck about current p99. The raid scene has always been a cesspool. It's pointless to play here unless you want to just farm gear for other people at 3am when your bathphone goes off. Sure, everyone may get geared up from trash drops, but the odds of ever seeing those couple real niche pieces in a zerglord sperglord clusterfuck with like 100 other people there? Good fucking luck. This game isn't good enough to waste that much time on.

I have 5 pieces of vulak loot and I've never once logged in after midnight. Sorry you're bad at the game.

[tempting]

So if these changes (rolls on ring war, bag limits, rolls on kael/dain spawn) are from Riot crying, how is there honor in ridiculing their main competitor for having complaints about the changes?

That's honestly the main issue here. Riot cries and cries and cries until they get their way while still acting sanctimoniously in the UN and refusing to concede on a lot of their faults (remember the Silverwing tracker FTE situation that their leadership REFUSED to acknowledge as tracker FTE and their regular members had to force them to post the concession?!). Not to mention how they acted when originally approached by Freedom/Vanquish leadership to make changes to the raid meta about how things were fine like they were.

But now that they've lost any leverage for bargaining, they've resorted to fabricating evidence of cheating and crying to GMs to get changes.

These are not organic changes to benefit the server or all parties involved. These changes serve one purpose: to extend the raiding viability of Riot officers that still have DKP to spend.

Once the rest of yall look past your petty squabbles with Vanquish leadership, you'll realize how toxic this has been for the server.

Finally, someone said it ^

[Ennewi]

temptingly

[Bones]

The raid scene has generally always been toxic... long before vanquish or riot existed, even back in 2009.

Funny thing is its not even the GM's fault they have tried all kinds of measures to stem the bullshit but the career neckbeard everquesters always find a way to bend or circumvent the rules and mechanics that were put in to try and make it as fair as possible. Then these same toxic dipshits have the audacity to blame the GMs for putting those mechanics and rules in once a new meta is discovered that basically bypasses them.

Green was an anomaly, competition was actually pretty healthy there for a while and still sort of is but its starting to slip away. Kingdom was starting to perform better and better against Seal Team each quake and natural cycle getting more targets than before each time. Seal Team, getting hit hard by burnout, sensed their grip of control was starting to slip away and in pure desperation to maintain control has since basically all but merged with a smaller less competitive 3rd guild to roll around with a 2 guild 120+ man zerg for pretty much every target since. Now lately they have all been basically skirting the line of staying within the rules and it appears to be snowballing as petitions come flying out seemingly every cycle/quake now. I predict it wont be long until Green becomes as bad a cesspool as Blue unless some drastic change happens. I don't think there's anything the GMs can do, this has to be a player led charge to keep the server amicable, and its probably going to have to come from Seal Team since they appear to be the ones pushing the boundaries of staying within the rules in an attempt to gatekeep the final end-game content and shut Kingdom out.

It comes down to the hardcore raiders. They are what ruin the server, not the GM's, not the casuals. Just too goddamn desperate to stifle competition and maintain "Top Dog" status for literally fucking years that they will do anything, literally anything up to and including scripting and cheating to keep their competition from getting targets. Some healthy competition is great but this incessant need to just dominate indefinitely is extremely unhealthy for the server and from 12+ years of experience on this server I don't feel it will ever go away. Its just the type of player this game attracts.

[Samoht]

Green was an anomaly, competition was actually pretty healthy there for a while and still sort of is but its starting to slip away. Kingdom was starting to perform better and better against Seal Team each quake and natural cycle getting more targets than before each time. Seal Team, getting hit hard by burnout, sensed their grip of control was starting to slip away and in pure desperation to maintain control has since basically all but merged with a smaller less competitive 3rd guild to roll around with a 2 guild 120+ man zerg for pretty much every target since. Now lately they have all been basically skirting the line of staying within the rules and it appears to be snowballing as petitions come flying out seemingly every cycle/quake now. I predict it wont be long until Green becomes as bad a cesspool as Blue unless some drastic change happens. I don't think there's anything the GMs can do, this has to be a player led charge to keep the server amicable, and its probably going to have to come from Seal Team since they appear to be the ones pushing the boundaries of staying within the rules in an attempt to gatekeep the final end-game content and shut Kingdom out.

Sounds like Kingdom should wake the sleeper then.

Watch the seal tears flow.

[Bones]

Sounds like Kingdom should wake the sleeper then.

Watch the seal tears flow.

lol yeah idk how many keys they have for sleepers if they could even kill a golem much less a warder. I'm also pretty sure seal team has had sleepers uncontested for months and who knows how much warder loot they have but I think it'd hurt kingdom more to wake the sleeper at this point than seal team

[Bones]

I'm also not convinced Seal team wouldn't just immediately wake the sleeper the instant Kingdom sets foot in there and begins to contest golems. As much as they claim to love competition I promise you 100% they don't actually want to be contested in Sleepers tomb. There's further ramifications than just the chance of losing golems to Kingdom.
It would affect quakes for them greatly. My guess is Kingdom, not having any primals for their rogues would probably go for golems relatively early if not immediately after sleepers key dragons on the outside. Seal team would then have to choose to go contest in sleepers against the golems and let all the smaller guilds rack up all the outside kills like KT, Dain, statue, etc. or let kingdom kill the golems so they can get those other loot pinatas outside.

Right now they have the luxury of not having to chose and can just follow kingdom around everywhere on quakes trying to leap frog them on targets and go to sleepers on their own time the next day as its uncontested.

[azxten]

Funny thing is its not even the GM's fault they have tried all kinds of measures to stem the bullshit but the career neckbeard everquesters always find a way to bend or circumvent the rules and mechanics that were put in to try and make it as fair as possible.

P99 is broken from a game design perspective. I've theorized this and gone well down the path of proving it. It's up to the staff to start addressing the core unclassic mechanics that make P99 too easy.

This started with proving Enchanter charm is trivializing the entire game from start to finish and massively breaking the leveling and itemization curves that should exist. It led to putting together the proof the channeling is insanely more successful on P99 than it was on live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqW42BFqVjo

And most recently after watching this video you can hear it directly from the guy who created the Enchanter spells that the way P99 works is nothing like live Enchanter.

Not only that but his repeatedly obsession with the "aggro system" and that he even seems to view EQ's core differentiation being this "aggro system" also tells me that another major problem, beyond channeling, is aggro. He even mentions aggro management for healers which is basically non-existent on P99 the same way charm is incredibly broken for Enchanter compared to live.

The vision Brad had in classic EQ does not exist on P99 and neither do the mechanics this MUD master implemented. We have a hollow shell and the devs don't seem to care even if you hand them the C++ code in a patch file like I did with undeniable proof that the mechanics should change and what is proposed is classic.

[Jimjam]

Good point about heal aggro - that used to be a thing ... is it not just that everyone is using 1:2 instead of 1:7 weapons from level 1?

[Bones]

P99 is broken from a game design perspective. I've theorized this and gone well down the path of proving it. It's up to the staff to start addressing the core unclassic mechanics that make P99 too easy.

This started with proving Enchanter charm is trivializing the entire game from start to finish and massively breaking the leveling and itemization curves that should exist. It led to putting together the proof the channeling is insanely more successful on P99 than it was on live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqW42BFqVjo

And most recently after watching this video you can hear it directly from the guy who created the Enchanter spells that the way P99 works is nothing like live Enchanter.

Not only that but his repeatedly obsession with the "aggro system" and that he even seems to view EQ's core differentiation being this "aggro system" also tells me that another major problem, beyond channeling, is aggro. He even mentions aggro management for healers which is basically non-existent on P99 the same way charm is incredibly broken for Enchanter compared to live.

The vision Brad had in classic EQ does not exist on P99 and neither do the mechanics this MUD master implemented. We have a hollow shell and the devs don't seem to care even if you hand them the C++ code in a patch file like I did with undeniable proof that the mechanics should change and what is proposed is classic.

I hear you, but I am not speaking about issues with the p99 code in general, which there may admittedly be many of, but lots of work has been done in the last 12 years. As bad as you think it might be right now p99 was far more broken in 2009. I was more speaking on raid rules and other non-classic mechanics that have been added in to try and stem the toxic af raid scene that has perpetually existed on p99 in particular. Many of which I complete disagree with, such as rooted dragons and removing push interrupt, but I understand why they did it at the time.

[azxten]

I was more speaking on raid rules and other non-classic mechanics that have been added in to try and stem the toxic af raid scene that has perpetually existed on p99 in particular. Many of which I complete disagree with, such as rooted dragons and removing push interrupt, but I understand why they did it at the time.

You don't seem to understand that those "issues with P99 code" are why the raid scene is the way it is. Ultimately, like I explain below, you have to accept that the staff WANTS things this way. They want people to reach raid level faster than they should be able to if the goal was a classic EQ experience.

As I explain below you only have to look as far as Green launch with the increased spawn rates and Teal instance server for confirmation of that. Every time players start to get a bit stressed about "congestion" or "rules" or whatever else the staff swoops in to make unclassic adjustments. Classic EQ was designed to be difficult and stressful. Until the staff embraces this and stops making it EQ-lite the raid scene will always have 500 people sitting around AFK while some ultra nerd officers argue over the latest ridiculous raid competition rules and meta adjustments.

Almost none of those people should be there. It's that simple. You have people show up on P99, have never played EQ in their life, and they make max level in 2-3 weeks of casual playing. The game is too easy, it's nothing like classic, and with the way green launch was "decongested" it is pretty hard to argue that it isn't intentionally being made this way.

Good point about heal aggro - that used to be a thing ... is it not just that everyone is using 1:2 instead of 1:7 weapons from level 1?

Everyone remembers Enchanters getting aggro in groups and running around in circles crying until they died. It doesn't happen on P99. Why?

Channeling is broken to an insane degree here making it way too successful. P99 uses one check roll per cast but live used one check roll per hit taken. It is exponentially easier to cast in combat on P99. Channeling makes aggro trivial to manage for everyone and even more so for Enchanter. Hybrid tanks can cast spells while being hit to pull aggro off group members. Healers can cast through adds and so on.

Second the mez spell, which is the basis of crowd control, isn't supposed to mem wipe on recast. Mez is supposed to only mem wipe if the mob isn't already mezed. This means an Enchanter who mezzes a mob, then slows it, hits it with an AE stun, remezes, and so on is stacking up aggro that entire time. This is why Enchanters had mobs "stuck" to them and why it doesn't happen on P99. On the rare occasions where they might happen they can just channel spells through combat to save themselves.

Even if that video the guy who made classic EQ talks about how timing heals was critical to avoid aggro for healers and if you spammed heals you would end up dead. You had to avoid aggro because you couldn't channel if you were being hit.

Nilbog did said he would look into the channeling changes and I hope he will because it would at least be a slight meta change from the 10 years of OP Enchanter dominating every aspect of P99.

What most people don't realize is how letting Enchanter be this broken impacts EVERYTHING in the game. You mention weapon ratios, but where do the weapons come from? If you have a fresh Green server where are those twinks weapons coming from? The Enchanters who are solo farming dungeons and start selling those items. Who is trivializing the grouping? Enchanter. Who is trivializing raiding particularly classic planes? Enchanter. Who is solo farming group content and dumping items in EC instead of looking for a group like they would have been in classic EQ? Enchanter.

Everyone argues about raid mechanics, rules, etc but the real problem is how so many players are able to easily get to max level between expansions, classic, to Kunark, to Velious. It should be a much smaller number which naturally solves the problem of raid rules and the other bullshit because there wouldn't be so many people there to zerg steam roll the content. It's not about "game knowledge" or all the other excuses. It is a fundamental failure to actually address progression rates and bring them closer in line to classic by fixing these huge mechanical problems.

It really makes me sad to see P99 go down this path of such an absolutely retarded and unclassic meta of foot races, rooted dragons, bat phones, and all the rest because for whatever reason the staff won't fix these mechanics.

The guy says it in the video, Brad McQuaid wanted EQ to be super difficult and slow because those moments of downtime were when the social atmosphere developed. He said he repeatedly pushed for mana regen to be faster and Brad shut him down. Brad knew what he was doing and it is that difficulty, slow progression, and social atmosphere that is lacking on P99 to recreate the real classic experience.

Ask yourself this, why the fuck was there increased mob spawn rates on green launch to avoid "congestion"? That is completely the opposite of the way EQ was designed to be. It is undeniable evidence that the staff don't actually want P99 to be classic. They wanted a more action packed raid WoW clone and that is what we have. Fast mob spawns, Teal instance to let people rush progression, not the slow dangerous progression of real EQ classic where you might never make it to max level before Kunark or Velious drops. Everyone gets to be a raider quick and easy join your preferred zerg guild and wait for the call.

1. Channeling is exponentially easier on P99 and should be made classic.
2. Mez shouldn't mem wipe already mezzed mobs thus ensuring an aggro dump when mez breaks.
3. Mana caps and stats should function correctly.
4. ZEM rates should be the classic proven values not the inflated unclassic rates being used.
5. Fix healing aggro which I don't think has been investigated as much as it should be.
6. Staff shouldn't be increasing mob spawn rates and introducing instances servers/merges to reduce "congestion" just so players can stack up in their preferred ZEM hot spot leveling tread mill backstabbing Enchanter pet groups to rush to max level.
7. Staff should ease off the heavy handed rule enforcement and let players resolve things themselves more like occurred in actual classic. Ninja looting, training, kill stealing, and all the rest was part of classic EQ and GMs didn't swoop in to ban a paying subscriber because they trained you.

Implement these changes and you'll see something much closer to actual classic EQ and a raid scene that doesn't need a "guild UN" and pages of rules and insanely retarded GM created competitions for "first to engage."

[eisley]

1. Channeling is exponentially easier on P99 and should be made classic.
2. Mez shouldn't mem wipe already mezzed mobs thus ensuring an aggro dump when mez breaks.
5. Fix healing aggro which I don't think has been investigated as much as it should be.


I've been around more or less since the beginning, and these 3 have really mystified, in addition to a few others (like the push interrupt change, and NPC gate)

Much like Charm, I think at this point we can't in good faith argue that nilbog et al do not know they aren't classic. Not only has it proven dozen of times that giving a pet a torch did not guarantee quads, it in fact guaranteed said NPC couldn't quad.

Channelling in this game is so bizarre, I remember threads about it in beta. The idea of casting reliably thru even one unslowed mob beating on you is so silly it beggars belief.

My first toon on live Vanilla was an enchanter. Charm and mem blur were both very bad. Like you said, the blur chance on Mez was incredibly low, even the Blur chance on high level mobs was incredibly low with highest level Blur spells. I can't remember a single time witnessing Mez induce a memblur on live. What we would do on long PoF/PoH fights is attempt to spam blur NPCs that had been mezzed a bunch over a long fight. 10-20 mezzes, followed by 10-20 blurs, and I'd say it succeeded less than half the time. Rooting was the viable alternative in Fear, because Fear mobs did not summon (oh hey, another thing broken on p99) but Hate mobs did. Eventually we figured out the obvious solution (enchanters camping in and out). Point is, Memblur was not the solution.

While I'm here, why is Theft of Thought still broken? You could cast it any mob regardless of their class. This wasn't changed until, like, PoP.

Mez breaks were a big deal because it'd undoubtedly attack the Enc, and then remezzing was no small feat, it either required kiting a snared mob, or using the 1.5s stun into mez. Casting while it beat you on the face was laughable. Even one quad dropped your Channelling chance to near zero.

Charm pets are busted on so many levels its hard to know where to begin. Yes, everyone knows Charm duration and damage are way out of whack here, but they forget how dangerous it was. You really needed a good cleric/paladin to stun it the instant charm broke, because your only hope was to mez and recharm. Since a charm pet won't be slowed or snared, you had no hope of facecharming it like you do here. You could try to stun and get off a mez, but without help it simply was not safe. It is indeed true that Druid and Necro charm lasted longer than Enchanter, but all 3 are way overscaled. A few minutes was the longest. No one kept eternal charm pets, because it was just dumb. Big risk, huge mana sink, and they didn't do half the damage they do here. Consider how big of a game changer Dire Charm was on live. It would be pointless here. I remember leveling my p99 druid in Fear during Kunark and my 55ish druid getting full 16 minute charm durations on shiverbacks more often than early breaks.

And of course, charm pets did a lot less damage, didn't disable NPC summon, didn't auto-quad even with two weapons (offhand double attack was still around 40% on lvl 50 mobs)

AoE Mez was a deathtrap on live. Here it's the best way to mass blur things. In exp groups, you pre-taunted or hybrids pre-cast aggro, or just rooted before breaking mez. Casting with a mob beating you in the face was just an effective way to die. Run and pray for a root/stun.

Heal aggro is an interesting one. On Live, the first CH to land on say, Vindi, would almost always result in an aggro pull. Having Druids/Shamans help heal & HoTs on engage was pretty important. Most decent guilds eventually solved this with clicky aggro by Velious.

However, it wasn't that simple. Tank swapping on AoW wasn't so reliable. What made AoW hard at first was that by the 3rd or 4th tank, Clerics would start getting summoned on CH's (or even when they just started casting it). So how did we solve this? Some guilds used 2 cleric banks and had them log in and out. Some guilds simply CotH'd all the clerics after a few tank swaps.

Heal aggro doesn't seem to scale with healing done here, or at least CH doesn't. AoE heals were likely the highest aggro spells in the game. You had to delay healing until everything was under control, because, again, once you got a mob beating on, you could not cast.

Channelling bug has trickled down to corrupt much of the game. The GMs must know about it. I suspect they are worried about the consequences of going classic. The ethos of this server used to be "#classic" now its more like "#classic, unless..." and this is a hell of an unless.

[Cochonou]

These could be announced after the roll when sorting the winner, eg: "Riot first: 985, Lord Bob second : 826, Vanquish last: 30"


ftfy

[Jimjam]

Ask yourself this, why the fuck was there increased mob spawn rates on green launch to avoid "congestion"? That is completely the opposite of the way EQ was designed to be. It is undeniable evidence that the staff don't actually want P99 to be classic. They wanted a more action packed raid WoW clone and that is what we have. Fast mob spawns, Teal instance to let people rush progression, not the slow dangerous progression of real EQ classic where you might never make it to max level before Kunark or Velious drops. Everyone gets to be a raider quick and easy join your preferred zerg guild and wait for the call.


Lots of good points, but the “newbie zone congestion fix” wasn’t about hurrying things up ... it was actually a bodge fix to make newbie zones feel more classic on a congestes server.

On live, the newbie zones had respawn mechanics not dissimilar to the ancient croc placeholders. 3 newbie mobs would be ‘linked’ together and you would have to kill all three before any of them respawned. This clever mechanic meant low pop newbie zones wouldn’t get swamped but busy once wouldn’t be too scarce. Its a clever system, most easily observed in live paineel cos they didn't randomise the spawn points.

[cd288]

P99 is broken from a game design perspective. I've theorized this and gone well down the path of proving it. It's up to the staff to start addressing the core unclassic mechanics that make P99 too easy.

This started with proving Enchanter charm is trivializing the entire game from start to finish and massively breaking the leveling and itemization curves that should exist. It led to putting together the proof the channeling is insanely more successful on P99 than it was on live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqW42BFqVjo

And most recently after watching this video you can hear it directly from the guy who created the Enchanter spells that the way P99 works is nothing like live Enchanter.

Not only that but his repeatedly obsession with the "aggro system" and that he even seems to view EQ's core differentiation being this "aggro system" also tells me that another major problem, beyond channeling, is aggro. He even mentions aggro management for healers which is basically non-existent on P99 the same way charm is incredibly broken for Enchanter compared to live.

The vision Brad had in classic EQ does not exist on P99 and neither do the mechanics this MUD master implemented. We have a hollow shell and the devs don't seem to care even if you hand them the C++ code in a patch file like I did with undeniable proof that the mechanics should change and what is proposed is classic.

I don’t think the aggro management system is broken for healers. I think what’s more likely is that on blue, and more on green with each day, everyone in the group is twinked to the gills so the melees are doing crazy dps such that they (I) reduce the amount of heals needed in a fight in the first place, thus reducing the amount of aggro a healer builds, and (ii) outpace any aggro generated by the MAYBE one heal a healer casts during a fight (most fights the healer doesn’t cast at all because the mob is dead in like 5 seconds).

EQ was never built around the idea that you’d have an epic monk with fungi and BIS everything plus two epic fully geared rogues DPSing group content. Even pre-epic level the amount of damage done is insane and 100 times beyond what people were doing in the classic era.

[Chortles Snortles]

moved to resolved

[azxten]

EQ was never built around the idea that you’d have an epic monk with fungi and BIS everything plus two epic fully geared rogues DPSing group content. Even pre-epic level the amount of damage done is insane and 100 times beyond what people were doing in the classic era.

I played a Cleric on Green launch to 50 and I don't think this is the case. Quite literally I never pulled aggro. The only time I can think of pulling aggro is if someone had 2+ mobs on them and at least one had zero aggro on it and even then that was a seemingly random chance that you would get aggro from healing. I even bug reported this and was told healing spells always had a chance to do no aggro. That's interesting and I can believe it but I also know healing spells, when they did do aggro, did a hell of a lot more than they do here.

[PlsNoBan]

1. Channeling is exponentially easier on P99 and should be made classic.
2. Mez shouldn't mem wipe already mezzed mobs thus ensuring an aggro dump when mez breaks.
3. Mana caps and stats should function correctly.
4. ZEM rates should be the classic proven values not the inflated unclassic rates being used.
5. Fix healing aggro which I don't think has been investigated as much as it should be.
6. Staff shouldn't be increasing mob spawn rates and introducing instances servers/merges to reduce "congestion" just so players can stack up in their preferred ZEM hot spot leveling tread mill backstabbing Enchanter pet groups to rush to max level.
7. Staff should ease off the heavy handed rule enforcement and let players resolve things themselves more like occurred in actual classic. Ninja looting, training, kill stealing, and all the rest was part of classic EQ and GMs didn't swoop in to ban a paying subscriber because they trained you.

Implement these changes and you'll see something much closer to actual classic EQ and a raid scene that doesn't need a "guild UN" and pages of rules and insanely retarded GM created competitions for "first to engage."

Most of this would only serve to slow down the leveling process and perhaps dissuade some folks from continuing to play to the endgame. Perhaps it would declutter the endgame a bit cause less people would have the patience to get there? But outside of that I fail to see how these changes would really change anything about the endgame. At least on Blue. You can slow it down all you want. Blue has been in Velious for like a decade? It'll eventually become topheavy no matter how slow you make it.

1: Has little to no effect on many raid targets. How many raid encounters involve casters having to cast through being hit?

2: Similar to #1. How many raid encounters on P99 rely on mez/blur in any capacity? Of the ones that do how many could you easily circumvent in other ways if mez/blur were nerfed?

3: I'd wager no noticeable effect. Most raids are zerged with far more people than are really necessary.

4: Slows down leveling a bit. Doesn't matter whatsoever if the server is permanently locked to 1 era and never resets.

5: This one has the highest potential to have an effect but probably won't matter too much. Aggro clickies can easily overcome this even if heal threat were increased.

6: Same as 4

7: I personally would be all about getting rid of PNP and going wild west rules. Let the players duke it out however they see fit. It'll be a shit show but at least it'd be entertaining and wouldn't require any staff time or intervention. However I wouldn't say that's "classic" by any means. "GMs didn't swoop in to ban a paying subscriber because they trained you" isn't necessarily true. Listen to some of Shawn Lord's podcasts/interviews. Particularly his discussion with Michelle Butler who was head GM for a long time in the early days. She tells stories about John Smedley calling people on the phone to reprimand them for something as silly as KSing. GM's routinely policed things even more harshly than P99 staff does in some regards. I don't think anyone wants Rogean calling them on the phone to bitch them out for rule infractions do they?

[eisley]

Heals were 1:1 aggro on live. 5k CH = 5k aggro. Not so here.

[azxten]

Most of this would only serve to slow down the leveling process and perhaps dissuade some folks from continuing to play to the endgame. Perhaps it would declutter the endgame a bit cause less people would have the patience to get there? But outside of that I fail to see how these changes would really change anything about the endgame. At least on Blue. You can slow it down all you want. Blue has been in Velious for like a decade? It'll eventually become topheavy no matter how slow you make it.


I don't really care about blue because it's a special case. I'd just like to enjoy the progression through Green being more classic. That's the whole point, there would be less people raiding until they stack up in Velious. For some people it's about the journey not the destination.

Your mentality is like saying why not just have 200% exp rates and give everyone vendor bought legacy items. Everyone just ends up max level anyway. How much do legacy items really impact raiding? We'll all be the same level in Velious eventually on Blue.

No, it's about raiding on Green during the progression.

[unsunghero]

Mez is very weird on P99, blurs like a crazy amount of the time. Supposedly cha factors into that but even at low cha it blurs like crazy

I stopped playing, so nerf enchanters, everyone’s so jealous it’s only a matter of time someone snaps

[eisley]

Mez is very weird on P99, blurs like a crazy amount of the time. Supposedly cha factors into that but even at low cha it blurs like crazy


This is one of those things like sneak memblur that we can't even pretend nilbog doesn't know about. On EQMac one of the old major contributors to the Bugs forum (Daldaen? Ele?) did 500 mezzes on a lvl 1 and 50 mezzes on a lvl 50 and it didn't blur a single time. We even tried to find an old video or log file indicating Mez producing a Blur, and never did. As far as I know, we never found proof of Mez causing Memblur ever, not once. Yet, here I just tested on p99, and 20 mezzes on a lvl 25ish guard resulted in 7 memblurs.

[Smoofers]

This is one of those things like sneak memblur that we can't even pretend nilbog doesn't know about. On EQMac one of the old major contributors to the Bugs forum (Daldaen? Ele?) did 500 mezzes on a lvl 1 and 50 mezzes on a lvl 50 and it didn't blur a single time. We even tried to find an old video or log file indicating Mez producing a Blur, and never did. As far as I know, we never found proof of Mez causing Memblur ever, not once. Yet, here I just tested on p99, and 20 mezzes on a lvl 25ish guard resulted in 7 memblurs.

Fraps?

Prove it

[Arvan]

Heals were 1:1 aggro on live. 5k CH = 5k aggro. Not so here.

If that were the case warriors literally could never be healed by a CH chain.

[getsome]

If that were the case warriors literally could never be healed by a CH chain.

on live that is why proximity factors into agro mechanics. also why tanks have the ability to taunt and have pure hate agro increasers. my wizard could regularly run 130% of MT hate and not pull agro. same principle applies to hate generated from healing, one point hate for every point healed(over healing is not calculated).

the calculation of hate generated thru meelee is based on every swing on the values inherit to the weapons used and procs. it is not based on the damage done.

[Detoxx]

the calculation of hate generated thru meelee is based on every swing on the values inherit to the weapons used and procs. it is not based on the damage done.

Actually did a lot of testing and this is 100% correct. Also, heals do generate threat, is 1/2 the amount of the heal IF the heal is "witnessed". Sometimes, they are not witnessed and its 0 threat. Same with rune.

[getsome]

This is one of those things like sneak memblur that we can't even pretend nilbog doesn't know about. On EQMac one of the old major contributors to the Bugs forum (Daldaen? Ele?) did 500 mezzes on a lvl 1 and 50 mezzes on a lvl 50 and it didn't blur a single time. We even tried to find an old video or log file indicating Mez producing a Blur, and never did. As far as I know, we never found proof of Mez causing Memblur ever, not once. Yet, here I just tested on p99, and 20 mezzes on a lvl 25ish guard resulted in 7 memblurs.

Played eqmac and blur did occur after mezzing mobs, certain spells had a higher chance than others.

it takes about 20 seconds to find posts from enchanters in 2000-2002 time frame describing mobs membluring after a mez.

how do u increase something if it did not exist?


March 19, 2002
** Patch Information ***
- Memory Blur, Mind Wipe, Blanket of Forgetfulness, Memory Flux,
Glamour of Kintaz and Rapture have been given a greater chance of
clearing the 'hate list'

[eisley]

Played eqmac and blur did occur after mezzing mobs, certain spells had a higher chance than others.

it takes about 20 seconds to find posts from enchanters in 2000-2002 time frame describing mobs membluring after a mez.

how do u increase something if it did not exist?


March 19, 2002
** Patch Information ***
- Memory Blur, Mind Wipe, Blanket of Forgetfulness, Memory Flux,
Glamour of Kintaz and Rapture have been given a greater chance of
clearing the 'hate list'


This post being from 2002 is kind of proving my point.

[eisley]

If that were the case warriors literally could never be healed by a CH chain.

How do you figure? First of all, being out of range is 30% less aggro. Secondly, CH is about one every 15-20 sec, and averages 2.5k I'd say. Do your tanks not do 2500 (-30%) aggro in 15-20 seconds? White threat ALONE should cover that.

And yes, aggro pulling WAS an issue on AoW late in the fight.

[Arvan]

on live that is why proximity factors into agro mechanics. also why tanks have the ability to taunt and have pure hate agro increasers. my wizard could regularly run 130% of MT hate and not pull agro. same principle applies to hate generated from healing, one point hate for every point healed(over healing is not calculated).

the calculation of hate generated thru meelee is based on every swing on the values inherit to the weapons used and procs. it is not based on the damage done.

Taunt? Lol i guess you have never played a warrior

[Arvan]

How do you figure? First of all, being out of range is 30% less aggro. Secondly, CH is about one every 15-20 sec, and averages 2.5k I'd say. Do your tanks not do 2500 (-30%) aggro in 15-20 seconds? White threat ALONE should cover that.

And yes, aggro pulling WAS an issue on AoW late in the fight.

I have 6300 hp and i get 4-5k+ heals all the time during CH chains. If that was 5k aggro every heal then every cleric would be dead on every hard mob in the game.

[azxten]

I don't know what the aggro mechanics were but I know P99 isn't accurate. Aggro here is a joke.

[PlsNoBan]

No, it's about raiding on Green during the progression.

You seem to be assuming that Green is going to actually wipe and reset on some kind of regular basis and won't end up being Blue-lite for very extended periods of time. I think this is EXTREMELY likely to be false.

[eisley]

I have 6300 hp and i get 4-5k+ heals all the time during CH chains. If that was 5k aggro every heal then every cleric would be dead on every hard mob in the game.

Dude, they aren't all from the same Cleric.

First of all, if they're out of melee range it's 30% less.

Even if EVERY CH in a 10 man chain is for 5k, that's 3500 every 30 seconds on 3s chain. Even if you didn't proc a single time, white aggro alone in 30 seconds should be about triple that. Add in procs and yeah.

And on live, aggro WAS a problem on long fights. We used to CotH clerics after a few tank swaps. Sitting down was dangerous too. Sit aggro is obviously non-classic here.

[eisley]

Healing aggro (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/aggro.903/) is discussed here.

"Yes, healing is one for one, *however*-
Healing requires an intelligence check on the part of the mob to notice it at all.
"(Note that some mobs are coded to have a hate modifier regarding heals, but these inconsistent in the game world and not something you normally need to worry about)" was written for tanks- obviously, it is more pertinent for priests.
Some mob types are less likely to notice a heal- this includes golems, clockwork, and undead.
The easiest way to demonstrate this is to watch your "in/out of combat" box. Even with zero Spell Casting Subtlety, sometimes, you will not be put in combat for casting a heal. This was because the mob didn't notice you.
Group heals are far more likely to be noticed, and generate more hate in general, because it forces a check for every person or pet that it hits, which can be anything from one (if you're using it while soloing for some reason or other), up to twelve (if you have a full group with pets) or more. Splash has a fixed hate amount so that you don't implode using it, but it too, is near impossible to stay off aggro using, due to the number of checks."

Of course, the most non-classic aggro mechanic on p99 is w/r/t Undead. On live classic, undead attacked the closest person. Period.

[Samoht]

Healing aggro (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/aggro.903/) is discussed here.

"Yes, healing is one for one, *however*-
Healing requires an intelligence check on the part of the mob to notice it at all.
"(Note that some mobs are coded to have a hate modifier regarding heals, but these inconsistent in the game world and not something you normally need to worry about)" was written for tanks- obviously, it is more pertinent for priests.
Some mob types are less likely to notice a heal- this includes golems, clockwork, and undead.
The easiest way to demonstrate this is to watch your "in/out of combat" box. Even with zero Spell Casting Subtlety, sometimes, you will not be put in combat for casting a heal. This was because the mob didn't notice you.
Group heals are far more likely to be noticed, and generate more hate in general, because it forces a check for every person or pet that it hits, which can be anything from one (if you're using it while soloing for some reason or other), up to twelve (if you have a full group with pets) or more. Splash has a fixed hate amount so that you don't implode using it, but it too, is near impossible to stay off aggro using, due to the number of checks."

Of course, the most non-classic aggro mechanic on p99 is w/r/t Undead. On live classic, undead attacked the closest person. Period.

That's a cool find. It's out of era, though. Keep looking.

[eisley]

I mean, was healing aggro being 1:1 ever contested? Was heals being "noticed" ever contested? I thought this was along the lines of the busted NPC melee or charm mechanics here, just things we accept are broken by choice.

AoW should attack 2.5 times per round, here every raid mob quads every round, and does not take equipped weapons delay into account. It's so far from classic that EQEmu base build is far more classic than p99 at this point.

Same with charm. Give your pet a Torch at any time period in live or EQEmu's existance, and it prevents quads. Here, it guarantees them. Has anyone ever suggested this ISNT broken?

I figured heal aggro was like that. No one really thinks heals did no aggro, right?

[azxten]

Healing aggro (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/aggro.903/) is discussed here.

"Yes, healing is one for one, *however*-
Healing requires an intelligence check on the part of the mob to notice it at all.
"(Note that some mobs are coded to have a hate modifier regarding heals, but these inconsistent in the game world and not something you normally need to worry about)" was written for tanks- obviously, it is more pertinent for priests.
Some mob types are less likely to notice a heal- this includes golems, clockwork, and undead.
The easiest way to demonstrate this is to watch your "in/out of combat" box. Even with zero Spell Casting Subtlety, sometimes, you will not be put in combat for casting a heal. This was because the mob didn't notice you.
Group heals are far more likely to be noticed, and generate more hate in general, because it forces a check for every person or pet that it hits, which can be anything from one (if you're using it while soloing for some reason or other), up to twelve (if you have a full group with pets) or more. Splash has a fixed hate amount so that you don't implode using it, but it too, is near impossible to stay off aggro using, due to the number of checks."

Of course, the most non-classic aggro mechanic on p99 is w/r/t Undead. On live classic, undead attacked the closest person. Period.

This is part of what we know is missing on P99. Mob specific modifiers. I found the same when investigating Charm. Undead had higher MR and seemingly so did other "random" mobs. There is a bug report right now about how almost no Iksar mobs can be charmed which is still confirmed on live. There was seemingly a ton of nuance within mob types that almost no one really knew about on live and is definitely not present on P99. Mob specific aggro differences also fits. A lot of this dynamic stuff is what made the game shine.

[starkind]

Is there a way to help the ppl in this thread feel better? /\

[azxten]

Is there a way to help the ppl in this thread feel better? /\

Your refreshing shit posting helps a lot, thanks. It breathes a bit of life into these dead forums and reminds me of the RNF glory days.

[Roadrash]

It is this, ALL of this, right here that I've honestly decided to just give Wow another go. I mean, let that sink in for a second. WOW FFS. All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. A. For caring waaaay too much about a game. B. For caring waaaay too little about the small number of other people that enjoy the same thing as you. and C. For being such shitty human beings. It has become the norm that if you can't win, cheat. If others complain then cut them down and act like you're somehow better? You all make me vomit in my mouth a little bit when I read threads like this.
To the rest of you that just play the game and don't participate in this fuckery, I wish you the best. Keep being good people and let tunare be with you in getting ANY good end game gear. You guys make the awesome part of this game, well, awesome. I'm sure I'll be back, I always come back, and I'm equally as sure this same garbage will still be going on when I return. Just wanted to let some people know they leave a fucking vomit film in my mouth.

[Chortles Snortles]

haha ur v angery

[bthomsen0312]

"Bonus exploits: Bard circles, conceding mobs you competed for after they are stable in the other guild's camp, and weaponizing Vulak blocker concessions... ...This is not related to the immediate issue that the cheating and /random roll is trying to address, but I felt like I had to say it. What the fuck is going on here with this. Bards running perfect circles monopolizing camps with negligible amounts of risk to powerlevel alts and bots through the most arduous part of the leveling process?..."

It is very difficult to automate the bard circles - a small downspike in fps results in drastically increased turn speed and will result in the script face planting into the train. If someone has a perfect bard script, it's not nearly as simple as the other scripts that you're discussing.

furthermore we used to run these trains of giant pulls in dreadlands back in 2001 selling powerlevels on brell.

[Wharfrat]

[QUOTE=Roadrash;3434625]It is this, ALL of this, right here that I've honestly decided to just give Wow another go. I mean, let that sink in for a second. WOW FFS. All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. A. For caring waaaay too much about a game. B. For caring waaaay too little about the small number of other people that enjoy the same thing as you. and C. For being such shitty human beings. It has become the norm that if you can't win, cheat. If others complain then cut them down and act like you're somehow better? You all make me vomit in my mouth a little bit when I read threads like this.
To the rest of you that just play the game and don't participate in this fuckery, I wish you the best. Keep being good people and let tunare be with you in getting ANY good end game gear. You guys make the awesome part of this game, well, awesome. I'm sure I'll be back, I always come back, and I'm equally as sure this same garbage will still be going on when I return. Just wanted to let some people know they leave a fucking vomit film in my mouth.[/QUOTE

~applauds~

[starkind]

Bracket fail [ ... ] :o oof

[Wharfrat]

Bracket fail [ ... ] :o oof

You have 5k + posts since april 21
NOW that's embarrassing!

[Magaman]

Does anyone have a copy of the new animal crossing?

[starkind]

Just go to the apple store.

There's one on Android to idk if it any good.

[Magaman]

I’d like to learn more about purchasing a copy of Animal Crossing and I desire imagery supporting the transaction.

[Chortles Snortles]

oh fuck he’s hot fuck

[Bardp1999]

https://i.imgur.com/LQLpEoO.jpg

[Magaman]

Close… but something maybe just a little more dc villainous to help dial it in.

[starkind]

Sorry guys turns out u need a Nintendo switch to actually play animal crossing.

[starkind]

Bonus content!

https://i.imgur.com/qAiAtxe.jpeg

[Magaman]

Nice! Wish there were a meme out there that truly captured the magic of purchasing Animal Crossing from a local video game store.

[starkind]

Nice! Wish there were a meme out there that truly captured the magic of purchasing Animal Crossing from a local video game store.

Here ya go! (https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ankha)

[starkind]

https://i.imgur.com/WltEpMs.jpeg

*SipS*

:p

[starkind]

Those cute lil jellybean feets! 😍

[Scalem]

Vanquish ruined blue with cheating now they all coming to green to cheat on those races. Y’all should touch grass every so often.

[Modwolf]

You don't say seal team member. You weren't crying when they were getting FTE for you last statues.

[Scalem]

You don't say seal team member. You weren't crying when they were getting FTE for you last statues.

If only I was in ST. Either way nice try his last race was in SS. Enjoy the Vanquish pixels and touch grass sometime.

[starkind]

https://i.imgur.com/04jlf7x.jpeg

[Modwolf]

If only I was in ST. Either way nice try his last race was in SS. Enjoy the Vanquish pixels and touch grass sometime.

You should know being in seal team, that before his safe space race he did plenty of races for seal team.

[Delekhan]

By my count, the races that Deso won that secured a kill for Seal Team were 4 Statues and 2 Dains. So far, he's secured 1 Statue for SS and Kingdom respectively. That is all-inclusive in the entire Velious timeline of 8 months so far.

[Twochain]

By my count, the races that Deso won that secured a kill for Seal Team were 4 Statues and 2 Dains. So far, he's secured 1 Statue for SS and Kingdom respectively. That is all-inclusive in the entire Velious timeline of 8 months so far.

one of those dAins races was won with j-boots

[Tunabros]

Vanquish ruined blue with cheating now they all coming to green to cheat on those races. Y’all should touch grass every so often.

and you are the one here talking about raiding when you dont even raid

maybe get a new hobby?

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/Liqro6i.jpg

[Scalem]

You should know being in seal team, that before his safe space race he did plenty of races for seal team.

What is reading comprehension?

[Praxcthius]

Maybe all the crybabies should quit. Not enough tissues in the world to sop up your blubbering cries of unfairness. And to author of this thread. Did you not play live????? Not many bards swarmed but the ones that did pissed people off. Especially doing the guards in pof at den in spawn temple.

[Praxcthius]

fennin ro not den. Plane of fire not fear….

[Ripqozko]

double posting cause you crybaby too. hope that helps.

[Tunabros]

repeating the same thing over and over again is also a sign of mental illness

hope this helps

[Ripqozko]

repeating the same thing over and over again is also a sign of mental illness

hope this helps

your whole schtick is copying others, hope that helps.

Consider getting banned again.

[Tunabros]

someone's triggered

[Modwolf]

What is reading comprehension?

I don't believe you, you chimed in after your guild lost the race. Prove it

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/gJgjhJs.jpg

[Scalem]

I don't believe you, you chimed in after your guild lost the race. Prove it

cool story

[Magaman]

Bump for photo evidence of Animal Crossing transactions