On its dying breath, <Criot> cries enough to turn blue into Dice simulator 2022

[Viscere]

And they are quite proud of themselves

kekw

[Ringi]

Hahaha, what a freaking manbaby. Aww did sumwun mess wif your wittle evaquest

https://imgur.com/adWarrT

[meathook]

I understand the roll for KT. But can someone explain how getting a 1 second head-start on Statue really helps? On Green, the first guy ahead of the pack is usually getting stunned/one-rounded by a Guardian or Vindi. In races I'm in I often purposely stand behind someone else so they get aggro on these mopbs first so I have a better chance of engaging Statue and surviving. It is never consistently the first guy off the line that gets a successful FTE on Statue because of all the KoS mobs I mentioned.

[Toryas]

I understand the roll for KT. But can someone explain how getting a 1 second head-start on Statue really helps? On Green, the first guy ahead of the pack is usually getting stunned/one-rounded by a Guardian or Vindi. In races I'm in I often purposely stand behind someone else so they get aggro on these mopbs first so I have a better chance of engaging Statue and surviving. It is never consistently the first guy off the line that gets a successful FTE on Statue because of all the KoS mobs I mentioned.

When you have 5 racers from the same guild scripting a reaction time to race, it doesn’t matter if the first player gets stunned.

Hope that helps.

[Cochonou]

Try DA, that should help you

[meathook]

When you have 5 racers from the same guild scripting a reaction time to race, it doesn’t matter if the first player gets stunned.

Hope that helps.

Ya, that helps explain it. Didn't realize it was prolific among guild members.

[Viscere]

You shouldn't be proud of elf-marxism

hope this helps

[Marathon]

WAit. I thought the logic was CSR has done nothing, therefore we didn't cheat. So, now that CSR did something, what's the conclusion? Communism? holy fuck im lost

[Viscere]

the CSR banns people when they cheat

no one was banned

I can imagine the Criot spamm and crying/whining 24/7 was hard to bear though, thus the changes

[Marathon]

the CSR banns people when they cheat

no one was banned

I can imagine the Criot spamm and crying/whining 24/7 was hard to bear though, thus the changes

But. hold on. what you guys are doing right now is not crying/whining?

[Horza]

Another thread for Vanq warmbodies to whimper about their devalued DKP.

[Viscere]

a bad policy change always deserves some RnF

you will get bored to roll for merbz too

[hotkarlmarxbros]

a bad policy change always deserves some RnF

you will get bored to roll for merbz too

How is winning with a roll any different than winning because someone else did something while you sat around doing nothing lol. You and every other warmbody clamoring for "more competition" while you do jack all except soak up freekp lack the self awareness to even feel an appropriate amount of embarrassment. Everything you say is hilariously cringe yet you just keep on posting, blissfully unaware that everyone is laughing at you, not with you.

[Caball]

Riot has been scripting Lodi FTE’s with proof Al over these forums for years, and no one has done a thing. Help make Lodi a /random like it should be to prevent scripted FTE’s and give everyone else a chance at turtle loot! Thanks

[Twochain]

I'll say one thing about this.

Raiding on this server before rooted dragons was the most fun I ever had playing an MMO. By a large margin. And it makes me genuinely sad that competitive raiding on this server has been dismantled piece by piece over the last 3-4 years.

I guess it's not fun being a GM on a competitive raiding server though. That much is highly evident. Sirken was the only one who was autistic enough to deal with the day in and day out of playing elf lawyer.

There's nothing out there that's like this game was. And it makes me sad, because I think p99 really had something great. Toxic, but great.

[Local]

Cheat to avoid competition. Get caught cheating so competitive element is removed. Complain about resulting lack of competition.

Makes sense.

[Marathon]

I'll say one thing about this.

Maybe. but you have the take care of the things you love. were the winners in the 'good old days meta' caretakers of the community? or were they a bunch of unmanageable-bleach-guzzling-jackasses running around spamming "welfare pixels" and shitting on everyone at every opportunity? you do this to yourselves.

[pogs4ever]

server playable again, pras it gm's

[Scalem]

hahahah beta server get fucked

[Arvan]

At least vanq are openly admitting to cheating now. It's really the first step in recovery. Its never to late to Seek Help.

[Croco]

hahahah beta server get fucked

If it's possible on blue it's likely coming to green. Inb4 unified rules.

[PlsNoBan]

Lots of ppl actively or passively benefitting from "winning" FTE races via scripting are very upset about this change. Hope all those hours practicing idiotic pixel races was worth it.

Today is a great day for elf justice. Legitimate players rejoice!

[Lammy]

I'll say one thing about this.

Raiding on this server before rooted dragons was the most fun I ever had playing an MMO. By a large margin.

You're referring to the era when <Rustle> dominated the raid scene

[Twochain]

Lots of ppl actively or passively benefitting from "winning" FTE races via scripting are very upset about this change. Hope all those hours practicing idiotic pixel races was worth it.

Today is a great day for elf justice. Legitimate players rejoice!

Says the guy that's banned from the server

[PlsNoBan]

Says the guy that's banned from the server


You'd have a good point if I got banned for a reason that wasn't retarded

[mycoolrausch]

"competitive" everquest worked a little better in the past when the top guild(s) mostly stuck to tov/kael, the mid level guilds were doing like vp and klandi and stuff, and the smaller/lesser guilds did like vs/vox/vindi/velk etc.

Now it's just 1 guild killing every target in every zone every day. Makes for a pretty boring raid scene. But it's an understandable development as the server matures and everyone has 5 alts and an army of bots pre parked at every target and strategies perfected to mobilize and kill everything so efficiently.

the new soft rotations for city leaders combined with the draft and bag limits seems like a good way to keep some guild diversity on an aging server

[zati]

Listening with compassion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvnkAtWcKYg

[beversami]

No one cares.

[Reiwa]

Why these changes?

We originally changed the COTH rules to prevent the possibility of automated scripts & to allow more competition between multiple racers running from the zone line. Unfortunately, it appears that there might be a possibility that some individuals have decided to script these runs to gain an unfair advantage over those that spend hours sitting at the zone line. We feel that these changes are the only way to guarantee a fair playing field without changing the mechanics of the mobs.

https://i.imgur.com/pze8Sgv.gif

[Ooloo]

"competitive" everquest worked a little better in the past when the top guild(s) mostly stuck to tov/kael, the mid level guilds were doing like vp and klandi and stuff, and the smaller/lesser guilds did like vs/vox/vindi/velk etc.

Now it's just 1 guild killing every target in every zone every day. Makes for a pretty boring raid scene. But it's an understandable development as the server matures and everyone has 5 alts and an army of bots pre parked at every target and strategies perfected to mobilize and kill everything so efficiently.

the new soft rotations for city leaders combined with the draft and bag limits seems like a good way to keep some guild diversity on an aging server

Yeah.. I was just daydreaming today while killing seafuries: "So... who killed like the last... gorenaire? Or... faydedar? Or... Severilous? I never seem to see any forces assembled or activity or anything around mobs like that, but they're also never up.

How bad do these people smell, in other words?

[cd288]

And they are quite proud of themselves

kekw

TLDR: Vanquish cheats and is upset Riot exposed them for it. Vanquish now mad because a system was put in place to prevent Vanquish from cheating

Quit being a whiney little bitch

[cd288]

But. hold on. what you guys are doing right now is not crying/whining?

Lmao got ‘em!

[cd288]

Yeah.. I was just daydreaming today while killing seafuries: "So... who killed like the last... gorenaire? Or... faydedar? Or... Severilous? I never seem to see any forces assembled or activity or anything around mobs like that, but they're also never up.

How bad do these people smell, in other words?

Faydedar gets killed pretty frequently not sure what you mean

[gkmarino]

Spanquished

[Ooloo]

Faydedar gets killed pretty frequently not sure what you mean

I mean outdoor contested dragons are never up, but I also never actually see anyone killing them, like it always happens at 5am or something.

You'd think you'd inevitably just stumble across people killing them since they are all in easily accessible outdoor zones.

[MarauderOHHYEAH]

I mean outdoor contested dragons are never up, but I also never actually see anyone killing them, like it always happens at 5am or something.

You'd think you'd inevitably just stumble across people killing them since they are all in easily accessible outdoor zones.

If your not in the zone for the 1-2 minute pull + 30 second burn down you won't see anything lol

[Ooloo]

If your not in the zone for the 1-2 minute pull + 30 second burn down you won't see anything lol

Yeah that's what I figured, and that's what I mean.

How bad must you smell to coordinate all these spawns with variance and ensure your guild gets every one, even on old world targets that aren't very important?

[Vianna]

Try DA, that should help you

It's not. This is Blue. Every time one guild has success the competition always makes up weird fantasies for why they lose.

[Vianna]

Maybe. but you have the take care of the things you love. were the winners in the 'good old days meta' caretakers of the community? or were they a bunch of unmanageable-bleach-guzzling-jackasses running around spamming "welfare pixels" and shitting on everyone at every opportunity? you do this to yourselves.

No Offense but you come off as more toxic than most people in the guilds from those days.

[Vianna]

Lots of ppl actively or passively benefitting from "winning" FTE races via scripting are very upset about this change. Hope all those hours practicing idiotic pixel races was worth it.

Today is a great day for elf justice. Legitimate players rejoice!

You morons believing people are scripting is literally the best entertainment around.

[Vianna]

"competitive" everquest worked a little better in the past when the top guild(s) mostly stuck to tov/kael, the mid level guilds were doing like vp and klandi and stuff, and the smaller/lesser guilds did like vs/vox/vindi/velk etc.

Now it's just 1 guild killing every target in every zone every day. Makes for a pretty boring raid scene. But it's an understandable development as the server matures and everyone has 5 alts and an army of bots pre parked at every target and strategies perfected to mobilize and kill everything so efficiently.

the new soft rotations for city leaders combined with the draft and bag limits seems like a good way to keep some guild diversity on an aging server

That era was very short. Since the release of Velious on this server outside of simulated earthquakes one or two guilds have always killed the majority of the raid targets.

[Ooloo]

If you've never seen an oatsngoats speedrun stream of super metroid, it might be hard to believe people are *that* good at twitchy finger inputs, but they are.

And we should feel sad for them, and consider what we ourselves might be missing through our narrow obsessions.

It's all really quite philosophical

[Vianna]

Yeah that's what I figured, and that's what I mean.

How bad must you smell to coordinate all these spawns with variance and ensure your guild gets every one, even on old world targets that aren't very important?

You don't really need to coordinate for those mobs. I haven't played here in awhile but Gore literally would be "Hey guys Gore is up let's kill her" because someone wanting a white scale was keeping an eye on her. Guild ports in. Mob gets pulled. Mob dies.

[Vianna]

If you've never seen an oatsngoats speedrun stream of super metroid, it might be hard to believe people are *that* good at twitchy finger inputs, but they are.

And we should feel sad for them, and consider what we ourselves might be missing through our narrow obsessions.

It's all really quite philosophical

Actually been watching him lately while replaying super metroid on my emulator. It always amazes me how narrow viewed people on P99 are. With a gaming monitor with a 240 refresh rate you don't gotta script a fast start if your 20 competitors have an old 60 refresh rate monitor. You get 50 to 60ms edge on the start of anything.

[Ripqozko]

You morons believing people are scripting is literally the best entertainment around.

We spent like half a year claiming furoar did in AM, how weird is it people are now? Not very

[Vianna]

We spent like half a year claiming furoar did in AM, how weird is it people are now? Not very

I never did. Never believed he did. I always thought it was funny when people in the guild thought it though. I remember when Detoxx was blamed for scripting like 2 years before that because of an FTE coth fraps he posted. Was the most moronic thing I ever witnessed.

[Ripqozko]

I never did. Never believed he did. I always thought it was funny when people in the guild thought it though. I remember when Detoxx was blamed for scripting like 2 years before that because of an FTE coth fraps he posted. Was the most moronic thing I ever witnessed.

But most of the officer core did believe and whined

[Reiwa]

Does it matter if they believe it so long as it was 'proven' possible?

Fighting the wrong battle guys.

[Marathon]

No Offense but you come off as more toxic than most people in the guilds from those days.

You all shit in the pool long before I jumped in.

[Endonde]

People have cheated in pretty much every meta of P99 raiding, anyone who tells you otherwise is either dumb, or cheating.

[PlsNoBan]

You morons believing people are scripting is literally the best entertainment around.

The scripter in question literally had a YouTube video tutorial explaining how to script with EQ client open AND THEN deleted it when people pointed it out


You trollin?

[ArbiterBlixen]

Hahaha, what a freaking manbaby. Aww did sumwun mess wif your wittle evaquest

https://imgur.com/adWarrT

Did anyone read this and not cringe?

[SantagarBrax]

So why did CSR make Dain a roll?

There's no allegation of cheating, scripting, etc for Dain..

/perplexed

Looks like throwing a bone to me

[myrddraal]

So why did CSR make Dain a roll?

There's no allegation of cheating, scripting, etc for Dain..

/perplexed

Looks like throwing a bone to me

probably because crossing 2 zones to race is dumb.

[SantagarBrax]

It's still less time than a statue / KT pull

[myrddraal]

Also gives more time to allow people to turn in for their ring 9s while the guild sets it up. May have a lot more comin for precious ring wars too.

[SantagarBrax]

"competitive" everquest worked a little better in the past when the top guild(s) mostly stuck to tov/kael, the mid level guilds were doing like vp and klandi and stuff, and the smaller/lesser guilds did like vs/vox/vindi/velk etc.

Now it's just 1 guild killing every target in every zone every day. Makes for a pretty boring raid scene. But it's an understandable development as the server matures and everyone has 5 alts and an army of bots pre parked at every target and strategies perfected to mobilize and kill everything so efficiently.

the new soft rotations for city leaders combined with the draft and bag limits seems like a good way to keep some guild diversity on an aging server

Fuck that, just release Luclin already :)

[Ooloo]

You don't really need to coordinate for those mobs.

Yeah see that's the sad thing to me. You should need to coordinate at least a little bit if only because maybe somebody else might kill it. The fact that a dragon with epic drops can have a 16 hour window in a big dumb outdoor zone and only 1 guild even attempts to kill it is depressing.

[SantagarBrax]

I can see why a decision was made for kael, I can understand the reasoning behind it, regardless if proven or not. Btw, not everyone in this game cheats.

Making Dain a roll, increasing quakes (free mobs if you mobilize for it), quarterly draft weeks are 8-10 days now, rolls on RW.....

Seems like CSR is choosing to make the only competitive Everquest server go extinct and turn it into a rotation, like all the rest. Is it due to a lack of interest and effort, perhaps?

We already know Rogbog haven't cared for years, although it was nice seeing nilbog at last years Christmas event in the arena. Taking it all in, in totality, I'm rather saddened...for some reason. :(

Truly, if no one gives a shit anymore just release luclin already. Get what you need from any of the other servers and rip out what you don't like. Let the competitive people move on and let the more casual guilds come up the natural way.

I've $1,000 on luclin drop.

[Ripqozko]

I can see why a decision was made for kael, I can understand the reasoning behind it, regardless if proven or not. Btw, not everyone in this game cheats.

Making Dain a roll, increasing quakes (free mobs if you mobilize for it), quarterly draft weeks are 8-10 days now, rolls on RW.....

Seems like CSR is choosing to make the only competitive Everquest server go extinct and turn it into a rotation, like all the rest. Is it due to a lack of interest and effort, perhaps?

We already know Rogbog haven't cared for years, although it was nice seeing nilbog at last years Christmas event in the arena. Taking it all in, in totality, I'm rather saddened...for some reason. :(

Truly, if no one gives a shit anymore just release luclin already. Get what you need from any of the other servers and rip out what you don't like. Let the competitive people move on and let the more casual guilds come up the natural way.

I've $1,000 on luclin drop.

Competition ended when we woke sleeper, you didn't exist then. If you wanted Competition should of played green. Hope that helps.

[myrddraal]

I can see why a decision was made for kael, I can understand the reasoning behind it, regardless if proven or not. Btw, not everyone in this game cheats.

Making Dain a roll, increasing quakes (free mobs if you mobilize for it), quarterly draft weeks are 8-10 days now, rolls on RW.....

Seems like CSR is choosing to make the only competitive Everquest server go extinct and turn it into a rotation, like all the rest. Is it due to a lack of interest and effort, perhaps?

We already know Rogbog haven't cared for years, although it was nice seeing nilbog at last years Christmas event in the arena. Taking it all in, in totality, I'm rather saddened...for some reason. :(

Truly, if no one gives a shit anymore just release luclin already. Get what you need from any of the other servers and rip out what you don't like. Let the competitive people move on and let the more casual guilds come up the natural way.

I've $1,000 on luclin drop.

Honestly more quakes will probably mean less petitions, which means less work for the volunteer staff. This isnt the US court handing out death sentences, when provided with ample enough evidence, and it makes their job easier, thats probably the solution theyre going to take. Especially because accusations of pixel detection even got us back to races to begin with. Now someone who mysteriously is always first off the line, wins, has videos showing him scripting even on p99, explaining how to do it, like what the fuck more proof do you want honestly. Should Rogean go to Stunningly's house and watch them race in person? Like you said, if the quakes are spaced out for the most part, you're looking at like, 2 rolls per month, less petitions, and more time actually enjoying raiding rather than sitting on a line for 16 hours for something to spawn.

[Daloon]

Riot just cried to their pals Galach/Nilbog so much that they think it's true... Not the dozens and dozens of hours on practice server practicing race times. Repeat nonsense enough times and people start to believe it. Well done.

[PlsNoBan]

Riot just cried to their pals Galach/Nilbog so much that they think it's true... Not the dozens and dozens of hours on practice server practicing race times. Repeat nonsense enough times and people start to believe it. Well done.

Yea total nonsense! Completely ludicrous that people might assume the guy making youtube tutorials on how to script (then deleting them when people notice) might be scripting. I can't believe people would come to such ridiculous conclusions!


P.S. If you spent 'dozens and dozens of hours' practicing racing for FTE's on P99 you may wanna use this opportunity to take a break and re-evaluate some things in ur life

[hobart]

Competition ended when we woke sleeper, you didn't exist then. If you wanted Competition should of played green. Hope that helps.

The guild you were in woke the sleeper. You were a warm body non-factor along for the ride.

[Tunabros]

Competition ended when we woke sleeper, you didn't exist then. If you wanted Competition should of played green. Hope that helps.

warm body rampage member still thinks he is relevant lol

[Ripqozko]

warm body rampage member still thinks he is relevant lol

Sorry you never were hope that helps. Stick to green.

[Prismaticshop]

I mean you guys realize how this looks :

Kael is one zone, but judging how much vanquish kills, Riot is getting severely beaten in other zones too.

They are real quiet about that part

[titanshub]

I mean you guys realize how this looks :

Kael is one zone, but judging how much vanquish kills, Riot is getting severely beaten in other zones too.

They are real quiet about that part

It looks like Vanquish is cheating to win to the supprise of literally no one paying attention. Keep trying to distract but nobody outside of Furoars cult gives a shit about destroying riot or what the score is. Vanquish is cheating so the score means nothing. It's pathetic and so are the people crying about getting caught in here.

[Trademarked]

Sorry you never were hope that helps. Stick to green.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbvYeLxMKN8

[Viscere]

Please forgive ramen, he didn't attend college. While english is his native language, he does not fully master it

[wasihoho]

Lol lol, nothing gonna happen if Vanq havn't script it.

[Tunabros]

Sorry you never were hope that helps. Stick to green.

mad post (lol)

[Ringi]

For how 'pathetic' this server is, saw an awful lot of Crytoxx yesterday

[starkind]

Yeah.. I was just daydreaming today while killing seafuries: "So... who killed like the last... gorenaire? Or... faydedar? Or... Severilous? I never seem to see any forces assembled or activity or anything around mobs like that, but they're also never up.

How bad do these people smell, in other words?

I got a shower chair. It's the best thing ever!

[Pootle]

Riot just cried to their pals Galach/Nilbog so much that they think it's true... Not the dozens and dozens of hours on practice server practicing race times. Repeat nonsense enough times and people start to believe it. Well done.

Not the dozens and dozens of hours on practice server practicing race times.

Repeat nonsense enough times and people start to believe it. Well done.

Not the dozens and dozens of hours on practice server practicing race times.

Repeat nonsense enough times

Not the dozens and dozens of hours on practice server practicing race times.

Repeat nonsense enough times

[gkmarino]

I love these reaction times comparisons to high skill gamers and high APM gamers in other games. That is way different than staring at a screen waiting for the firing pistol for HOURS. They are actively playing and reacting, They aren’t waiting and counting every millisecond of time to begin. What an existence. Yikes.

[mattydef]

Seems like CSR is choosing to make the only competitive Everquest server go extinct and turn it into a rotation, like all the rest. Is it due to a lack of interest and effort, perhaps?
Sorry to break it to you but if the server ever went full rotation, the population would increase dramatically. Not only would more people be playing on the server and enjoy the raid scene, it would also get rid of a lot the people who have been making the server overall worse for many, many years.

[Prismaticshop]

Yeah right, that's why all TLP die within 6 months...

[Gustoo]

SantagarBrax talking about competitive on a non pvp server.

Cheat and box for FTE and then whine. I'll take a kit kat bar.

Dye yourself some fine plate and call it a day bro

[SantagarBrax]

Sorry to break it to you but if the server ever went full rotation, the population would increase dramatically. Not only would more people be playing on the server and enjoy the raid scene, it would also get rid of a lot the people who have been making the server overall worse for many, many years.

This is patently false and has been historically proven. Live did this, Live died shortly thereafter.

In a true MMO, you do not do anything that lessens interaction between players. The results are obvious.

[Tunabros]

SantagarBrax talking about competitive on a non pvp server.

Cheat and box for FTE and then whine. I'll take a kit kat bar.

Dye yourself some fine plate and call it a day bro

no one gives a shit about pvp in classic everquest

just give it up, already

you are dillusional

[SantagarBrax]

Competition ended when we woke sleeper, you didn't exist then. If you wanted Competition should of played green. Hope that helps.

Ahh the irrelevant broken record continues to spin. Your raid scene experience is from a time when you had little to no competition against Forsaken, and once Forsaken, Taken, and Asgard started to ally in order to compete against you and Rampage, you guys woke the sleeper and quit the game. /slowclaps

You have no room to discuss anything regarding the current raiding meta, or anything since, as you don't participate nor have a clue what you're talking about. The truth is you don't know what competition on p99 is in the raid arena as you've never experienced it.

Please, continue regurgitating your completely irrelevant and inexperienced perspective.

[SantagarBrax]

no one gives a shit about pvp in classic everquest

just give it up, already

you are dillusional

I've proposed a solution to this: allow each account on blue and green to duplicate 1 character per account, without bank or plat, on the red server.

I think a lot of people would be interested in this without the grind of having to start from scratch. The novelty alone would bring in a healthy population, instantaneously.

[mattydef]

This is patently false and has been historically proven. Live did this, Live died shortly thereafter.

In a true MMO, you do not do anything that lessens interaction between players. The results are obvious.

You guys keep using other servers / games as examples that rotations wouldn't work, yet my experience on this actual server says otherwise. Every single time, over the years, when the top guilds got suspended and the rest of the server shared mobs, there were huge flocks of people logging in. Even to this day, when quakes happen and even the lower guilds have guaranteed mobs to kill, the population increases. During the quarterly draft, guilds see record numbers online.

You have to remember, the vast majority of p99 players (and eq players in general) are in their 30-40s with careers and families. Most of them just want to kill dragons with friends and get some nostalgia and couldn't care less about 'competition', and the ones that do want some competition will get on an actual pvp game to scratch that itch.

[PlsNoBan]

This is patently false and has been historically proven. Live did this, Live died shortly thereafter.

In a true MMO, you do not do anything that lessens interaction between players. The results are obvious.

Do your obvious results include the fact that live has been more popular than P99 for the entirety of it's existence? If live is dead what does that make P99? Other games that went to much further extremes in this regard are vastly more popular than EQ ever has been or will be.

I get the point you were trying to make but speaking of patently false I think we can file your entire post under that.

[Gustoo]

I've proposed a solution to this: allow each account on blue and green to duplicate 1 character per account, without bank or plat, on the red server.

I think a lot of people would be interested in this without the grind of having to start from scratch. The novelty alone would bring in a healthy population, instantaneously.

I think that would be a little fun but being a level 60 with no pvp experience is going to make you really embarrassed and quit. Plus, PVP like the rest of everquest is more enjoyable at levels 1-49 and 49-59 rather than just max level 60 when the game ends because there is the dynamic of the shifting power of classes as they hit their new spells and damage caps and such.

But yeah it could be interesting.

[Gustoo]

You guys keep using other servers / games as examples that rotations wouldn't work, yet my experience on this actual server says otherwise. Every single time, over the years, when the top guilds got suspended and the rest of the server shared mobs, there were huge flocks of people logging in. Even to this day, when quakes happen and even the lower guilds have guaranteed mobs to kill, the population increases. During the quarterly draft, guilds see record numbers online.

You have to remember, the vast majority of p99 players (and eq players in general) are in their 30-40s with careers and families. Most of them just want to kill dragons with friends and get some nostalgia and couldn't care less about 'competition', and the ones that do want some competition will get on an actual pvp game to scratch that itch.


I am still blown away that p99 doesn't have quakes way more often to simulate actual everquest.

So that you happen to be playing, a quake happens and you and your friedns are like "oh shit lets go try to kill a monster!" and choose a target and hope you're first to mobilize a force to kill it.

That happened on live and here it seems it would help mess with the total locked in schedule some guys have.

[Scalem]

You guys keep using other servers / games as examples that rotations wouldn't work, yet my experience on this actual server says otherwise. Every single time, over the years, when the top guilds got suspended and the rest of the server shared mobs, there were huge flocks of people logging in. Even to this day, when quakes happen and even the lower guilds have guaranteed mobs to kill, the population increases. During the quarterly draft, guilds see record numbers online.

You have to remember, the vast majority of p99 players (and eq players in general) are in their 30-40s with careers and families. Most of them just want to kill dragons with friends and get some nostalgia and couldn't care less about 'competition', and the ones that do want some competition will get on an actual pvp game to scratch that itch.

There's probably at most 100-150 people and that's being generous, on each of the servers who actually care about competition and being poop sockers. Just like everything else in life the minority is always the most vocal and loud and scream at anyone who disagrees. I'm willing to bet that a P99 server with forced rotations would be the most populated server and the least amount of work for the GMs. But it will never happen.

[Tewaz]

I'm willing to bet that a P99 server with forced rotations would be the most populated server and the least amount of work for the GMs. But it will never happen.

This. Forced rotation would blow the server population up.

Also, why are "classic" spawn times(variance lol) enforced so harshly? The blue server probably has more level 60 characters than every original EQ server combined at the end of Velious.

[Joeannamelissa]

I don't think some of these guys realize how many people stop playing P99 or just never even start because of the 'competitiveness' of the raid scene here. The number of people who would quit or not play at all because of rotations wouldn't even be close in comparison.

[SantagarBrax]

It seems the point of "lessening interactions" within an MMO being a bad thing has been lost.

I played on live from '99-'06 and that was one of the two major factors to its downfall. It became routine, mundane, and the "life" and fun were gone.

[adruidarkly]

Cheat and act awful, get quality of life improvements.

That’s the message.

Make windows sane and let us enjoy the rest of the game. The raids aren’t worth this much squeeze but people can’t lose so they cheat.

[SantagarBrax]

Initially, people didn't complain against the instancing (rotations) as they all thought and said the exact same things that some of you folks are saying here.

Then, the reality eventually set in and we all realized the mistakes that occurred. We wished to return to a previous era that was the "best" everquest experience.

[PlsNoBan]

It seems the point of "lessening interactions" within an MMO being a bad thing has been lost.

I played on live from '99-'06 and that was one of the two major factors to its downfall. It became routine, mundane, and the "life" and fun were gone.

It's not being lost. You're just wrong. You have fond memories of a certain version of EQ and insist that because you like it that means anything else is the "wrong way" and the "downfall of EQ". You say this in spite of the fact that changes like instancing and rotations.etc have historically been more popular than the alternative. Live EQ has more players than P99 and it always has. WoW at it's peak (instanced literally EVERYTHING) had something like 30-40x more players than EQ ever had at any point. The only reason EQ had open world "competitive" (lol) endgame raids is because they were the first major MMO of their kind and didn't know any better. Instances were added as soon as they were technologically feasible to do so and they never looked back. There's a reason for this. Competing for open world raid targets is statistically unpopular. It's a very small vocal minority that crows about how great it is.

You believe instance/rotation = bad and causes population to drop. The facts say the exact opposite. There seems to be a disconnect in your thought process on this one.

[Ennewi]

An argument could be made for designating (each new iteration of) green as the competitive server, since that content comes with a clean slate and increased difficulty after each expansion.

Green began with a race for server firsts, prenerfs, and best of the best titles. And while blue has enjoyed much of the same years ago, a lot of its shelf life can be attributed to alt armies and old feuds. Blue players wanting experience that competitive atmosphere again could always box, one character on green and one on blue. Blue has been around far longer than the trilogy itself, serving as the beta/test server, with unclassic features that must have been a PITA to eventually remove; that places an asterisk next to most player achievements. It has seen many different versions of easymode, including level 1 epics, all/all soulfires, etc.


As far as p99 history goes the charm nerf has to be one of if not the biggest. On p99 during the first 6 months or so after launch charm had a set duration. Enchanters and necros were literally solo farming multiple camps with ease with timers set for their charm breaks. It was not uncommon to zone into lguk do a cc and see a solo chanter or necro claiming frenzy, am, and lord as one camp and holding down with ease at lvl 50 in scraps for gear corpsing their lore drops and continuing to hold the camp for hours sometimes days at time when fbss was sellin for 15-20k a pop, SSoY - 10-15k a pop, SMR - 10k etc (I am guilty of this). I made something like 100k in ~24 hours at one point which was a ridiculous amount at that particular time.

For this reason and others, it isn't as impressive to see a max level player in full BiS on blue as it is on green server.

This isn't an argument for rotations on blue, but if the top guild did hold competition in such high regard, as has often been the claim, cheating would not have been allowed. The moment any participant cheats, those who quietly benefit from it are also quietly opposing competition, more so than anyone openly arguing for a rotation, as they are merely rotating trophies between their guild members.

[SantagarBrax]

I don't cheat, nor do the overwhelming vast majority of players on p99, nor have I "quietly benefit"(ed) from any such allegation.

@plsnoban

My vision and experience of everquest, along with many others, was the pinnacle of what a true MMO could be. Unlimited interactions allowing the fruition of unforeseen activities and experiences. You seem to think the #1 factor is the amount of population on a server as the prime and only currency, thus taking the position of a lobotomized MMO experience and holding it up as the shining example of truth and fact. You don't seem to realize that the currency has been debased and no longer holds as much value as it once had.

This is the misguided error in your thought process.

[SantagarBrax]

Literallly "quantity over quality" is your position, and it's historically and presently wrong.

[Ripqozko]

VQ grasping at straws
you hate to see it

[Endonde]

I don't think some of these guys realize how many people stop playing P99 or just never even start because of the 'competitiveness' of the raid scene here. The number of people who would quit or not play at all because of rotations wouldn't even be close in comparison.

Most of them realize it, but their entire self worth is wrapped up into this weird notion of being better than others on a 23 year old elf simulator.

So you're not just removing competition, you're removing the only thing that makes these people feel good about themselves. So obviously they are going to fight against that.

[PlsNoBan]

I don't cheat, nor do the overwhelming vast majority of players on p99, nor have I "quietly benefit"(ed) from any such allegation.

@plsnoban

My vision and experience of everquest, along with many others, was the pinnacle of what a true MMO could be. Unlimited interactions allowing the fruition of unforeseen activities and experiences. You seem to think the #1 factor is the amount of population on a server as the prime and only currency, thus taking the position of a lobotomized MMO experience and holding it up as the shining example of truth and fact. You don't seem to realize that the currency has been debased and no longer holds as much value as it once had.

This is the misguided error in your thought process.

I guess I assumed the "downfall" you keep talking about was population based. Are you saying the downfall is nothing more than a subjective opinion of the state of the game? If so then your entire argument is pointless. Why should anyone else care what your subjective line in the sand is or where the made up "downfall" of the game began? You're statistically in the minority in those beliefs. Are you merely suggesting P99 should do things the way you think they should because if they don't it'll be the downfall of P99 by your made up metric?

[PlsNoBan]

This is patently false and has been historically proven. Live did this, Live died shortly thereafter.

In a true MMO, you do not do anything that lessens interaction between players. The results are obvious.

^ Saying shit like this HEAVILY implies you believe "live died" when they did things you didn't like (like instances). Now you're backpedaling saying it's not about the numbers or population. What is it about then? In what way did live die? What results are obvious?

Your argument makes literally zero sense

[PlsNoBan]

Literallly "quantity over quality" is your position, and it's historically and presently wrong.

Quality is subjective and newsflash: Lots of people disagree with your definition of quality. In fact I'd wager heavily that vastly more people are on the opposite side of your views of quality. Care to use anything that isn't subjective to prove your supposed "downfall"?

[ClephNote]

Someone should script 3 quakes a week. Remove respawns from the game completely.

That’s more classic than rooted dragons or rolled Dains, imo.

[Viscere]

Tbh rolls seems temporary, not sure GMs are super satisfied with the dice meta

Either Rota C/R system which had its + and -

or Rooted, would be dope.

Honestly rooted dragons in ToV are great, we get to kill flurries, explore the zones etc, A lot of people are unhappy about it, but I think a majority or people are actually satisfied with it (pulling vulak to entrance was dumb).

It would only logical for them to root Statue/AoW/KT as well as Dain on its throne, would make for a great change.

+1 for Rooted Kael/Thurgb!

[Solist]

Let’s start with just adjusting dragon dps and resists to classic levels.

[mycoolrausch]

It seems the point of "lessening interactions" within an MMO being a bad thing has been lost.

I played on live from '99-'06 and that was one of the two major factors to its downfall. It became routine, mundane, and the "life" and fun were gone.

That's because MMORPGs evolve into cookie clicker to maintain subscribers that like falling into routines.

There's an alternative reality out there where MMORPGs arent obsessed with subscriber count and just make the best MMORPG they can. In that universe luclin is a lateral expansion instead of vertical and more content is added to the classic trilogy without homogenizing the classes or stratifying the content, significantly less mudflation, no changes to level caps, no AAs. Most people would play for a time then move on when burned out but the hardcore that remained would have a richer classic experience with a ton of content. Notice that in this scenario you still dont have half a dozen roughly comparable raid forces stacked on top of each other with the most hardcore of them getting every single mob in the game. That's a p99 exclusive scenario because of a dead end timescale with no new content.

[SantagarBrax]

That's because MMORPGs evolve into cookie clicker to maintain subscribers that like falling into routines.

There's an alternative reality out there where MMORPGs arent obsessed with subscriber count and just make the best MMORPG they can. In that universe luclin is a lateral expansion instead of vertical and more content is added to the classic trilogy without homogenizing the classes or stratifying the content, significantly less mudflation, no changes to level caps, no AAs. Most people would play for a time then move on when burned out but the hardcore that remained would have a richer classic experience with a ton of content. Notice that in this scenario you still dont have half a dozen roughly comparable raid forces stacked on top of each other with the most hardcore of them getting every single mob in the game. That's a p99 exclusive scenario because of a dead end timescale with no new content.

^ This guy understands.

The interactions between guilds in the raid scene, however bad one thinks it is, is significantly better than the alternatives that lessen interactions between players.

GM's got it wrong with this Dice Roll based on that fact alone. Where's the actual discussion from CSR and the raiding guilds towards a viable solution, pooling all the knowledge and expertise that this server has to offer and brainstorming up a better way?

Joria makes a post and a short number of days later just an arbitrary "we're changing to this model". No real discussion to be had, no involvement from those that it affects. Why not have this discussion and brainstorm first?

[SantagarBrax]

I guess I assumed the "downfall" you keep talking about was population based. Are you saying the downfall is nothing more than a subjective opinion of the state of the game? If so then your entire argument is pointless. Why should anyone else care what your subjective line in the sand is or where the made up "downfall" of the game began? You're statistically in the minority in those beliefs. Are you merely suggesting P99 should do things the way you think they should because if they don't it'll be the downfall of P99 by your made up metric?

The downfall of EQ was instancing and releasing shit expansions with little to no content, following the quantity of quality model. Let me be clear, anything that lessens interactions within an mmo is a terrible idea: instancing, rotations, roll offs, bag limits, etc.

@Galach/Menden

Let's have a discussion and brainstorm a better way that addresses any concerns with scripting/cheating while minimizing the impact towards the player base interacting with each other in an MMO. If we fail to come to some sort of compromise, at least we can say we tried.

[Ripqozko]

The downfall of EQ was instancing and releasing shit expansions with little to no content, following the quantity of quality model. Let me be clear, anything that lessens interactions within an mmo is a terrible idea: instancing, rotations, roll offs, bag limits, etc.

@Galach/Menden

Let's have a discussion and brainstorm a better way that addresses any concerns with scripting/cheating while minimizing the impact towards the player base interacting with each other in an MMO. If we fail to come to some sort of compromise, at least we can say we tried.

You all can't even communicate normally to rest of the server, how are you gonna brainstorm. Enjoy your rolltation. Hope that helps.

[Tunabros]

it all went downhill from rooted dragons

[Croco]

^ This guy understands.

The interactions between guilds in the raid scene, however bad one thinks it is, is significantly better than the alternatives that lessen interactions between players.

GM's got it wrong with this Dice Roll based on that fact alone. Where's the actual discussion from CSR and the raiding guilds towards a viable solution, pooling all the knowledge and expertise that this server has to offer and brainstorming up a better way?

Joria makes a post and a short number of days later just an arbitrary "we're changing to this model". No real discussion to be had, no involvement from those that it affects. Why not have this discussion and brainstorm first?

Simply wrong.

Again, like many people have already said, the amount of people who enjoy guild vs guild competition and interaction on the server is INCREDIBLY small. They are just very loud. The vast majority of raids, even now, don't have guild vs guild interaction and even within the ones that do the majority of the people raiding for those guilds don't interact with the other guild.

The vast vast majority of p99 raiders just want to hang out with their bros and kill shit. You can tell which guild is full of people who want unclassic competition and which one doesn't by which guilds actually enjoy clearing Growth. One guild does it as fast as possible, in the past even breaking the zone mechanics to bypass the time required to clear the zone and kill Tunare. Other guilds enjoy clearing Growth because some of the most fun and funny guild conversations happen during those times. It's a perfect microcosm of the opinions and attitudes of various guilds.

The most popular and successful MMO's to have ever existed have some kind of instanced content. You can't keep saying your preference of how to play an MMO is the best because the numbers don't back you up. Luclin - PoP - Ldon was WAY more popular and has WAY more subscribers than Classic - Kunark - Velious. Those are verifiable facts. We can't measure any subjective comment like "significantly better". You maybe enjoy the C/K/V era better than L/P/L but you are in the minority. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with being in the minority of people who liked a thing better than something else that's way more popular. The problem comes with trying to push this narrative that p99 population would tank or that Ckv era is "significantly better" than the LPL era. Any measurable metric does not back up that conclusion.

Unfortunately the GM's and Dev's have made a TON of changes with absolutely zero conversation or care what the player base thinks. Including a ton of non-classic changes. Bag limits were working very well at 2/3, they were split just about even between the top 2 guilds. What should've happened was that those same 2/3 bag limits should've been extended to EVERY OTHER raid boss in the game. If that happens I'm not sure you have people even bothering to worry about whether someone is or isn't cheating via scripts in kael or other places. Yet the bags were changed to 4/5 for no reason, with no conversation, and no explanation, and that is as big as any other reason why one guild has separated from the pack and begun snowballing all content and sometimes hits 150+ people on raids.

Nearly every problem currently on the server is result of someone in charge making a change that they didn't think through or because of inattentiveness and not wanting to do the job they volunteered to do.

Honestly the best thing that could happen for p99 in the future is if they continue to have blue and green be separate and designate one of them to be the competitive server and one the rotation server and allow xfers from any server to any server for a limited period of time. In the future if they want to make a new "green" server they can remake as teal from scratch and at the end of teal timeline they allow people the choice of flushing out to the rotation or competition server.

I don't think that will happen but it would be the absolute best thing the box owners could do for the health of all servers involved and for the sanity of GMs.

[Croco]

addendum:

Most player interaction with people who aren't in your same guild doesn't happen during raids. It happens during random grouping and in EC. And none of that would be affected by instanced raiding or rotations.

[Ennewi]

The vast vast majority of p99 raiders just want to hang out with their bros and kill shit.

As shown in the footage below.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393176

AfHRKka_soE

Videos like these make the server that much more attractive to new and old returning players; contrast that with other videos that have since been removed for how incriminating they were and others videos that still serve as RNF fodder to this day, all of which are the result of...

people who enjoy guild vs guild competition

[Plaguu~]

Nearly every problem currently on the server is result of someone in charge making a change that they didn't think through or because of inattentiveness and not wanting to do the job they volunteered to do.

If only rog/bog would pass the reigns to someone who still cared about the servers.

[PlsNoBan]

The downfall of EQ was instancing and releasing shit expansions with little to no content, following the quantity of quality model. Let me be clear, anything that lessens interactions within an mmo is a terrible idea: instancing, rotations, roll offs, bag limits, etc.

You continue to assert this idea post after post after post with nothing but the subjective opinion of a statistical minority. Just because YOU think "reducing interactions" (even bad ones that happen repeatedly for 10+ years) is a bad thing doesn't mean it is a bad thing or that most people agree with you. You repeatedly fail to address this point and continue to post as if your opinion on this matter is some kind of fact or something that is unanimously agreed upon. All the numbers and hard facts are against you no matter how much this may upset you.

I say again: Care to use anything that isn't subjective to prove your supposed "downfall"?

[PlsNoBan]

Honestly the best thing that could happen for p99 in the future is if they continue to have blue and green be separate and designate one of them to be the competitive server and one the rotation server and allow xfers from any server to any server for a limited period of time. In the future if they want to make a new "green" server they can remake as teal from scratch and at the end of teal timeline they allow people the choice of flushing out to the rotation or competition server.

I don't think that will happen but it would be the absolute best thing the box owners could do for the health of all servers involved and for the sanity of GMs.

This would be actually amazing. Just kill Red (nobody plays it anyway) and use that as the new "Teal" and make blue = competitive green = rotation. Problem solved.

[Viscere]

Have you ever wondered that maybe if there never were rotations on any p99 server it's maybe because it's a bad idea ?

Anything remotely close was the the C/R system that lasted 6 months before being completed abandonned

[PlsNoBan]

Have you ever wondered that maybe if there never were rotations on any p99 server it's maybe because it's a bad idea ?

Anything remotely close was the the C/R system that lasted 6 months before being completed abandonned

Give ppl a competitive server and a rotation server. Let the numbers decide which one is a "bad idea"

Vocal minority likes one thing. Silent majority has been unhappy with P99's raid scene since the beginning. Many have quit because of it. Some still play in spite of it because they enjoy other aspects enough to deal with it. Only a few actually enjoy it. Ever wonder why there's always 1 or 2 guilds dominating everything that's even vaguely important since the beginning of the server? Because people don't want to compete. Everyone just flocks to whatever guild gets pixels and waits their turn for loot in mile long DKP pixel queues. If people truly loved "competitive" (lol) EQ as much as some of you people like to imagine they do wouldn't you think there would be more guilds trying to compete instead of big ass zergs at the top?

Y'all need Jesus

[San'Drax]

Oh. I like that rotation vs competitive servers idea

[Samoht]

Vocal minority likes one thing.

Riot was quite content when they were the controlling entity on the server and staunchly against allowing in new entities. They're not magically saints now that a different force is the controlling entity.

Silent majority has been unhappy with P99's raid scene since the beginning.

Have you forgotten server history now? The C/R rotation showed that these "silent majority" guilds still weren't happy when given a bigger piece of the pie. When you removed competitive guilds from the equation, they continued squabbling amongst themselves.

That's what these people want. To weasel and Arcler their way to more loot rather than killing dragons. And what we learned from the C/R rotation is that this server is never going to tee up free loot for guilds just because they exist.

If you want to raid, you should have enough ambition to prepare for killing the targets you want and the skill to see it through.

The targets are not going to stay up indefinitely while you herpderp your way over and throw bodies at it for a dozen half-assed attempts.

The intention of this server is not to coddle the "silent minority." The intention here is to be a nostalgia based server true to the original mission. And the truth is, these people would have never have been max level or had epics during this era.

They now have the chance to re-live it and to make their goals, but they won't make their goals on the same casual path. At least not very quickly, anyway.

[PlsNoBan]

Riot was quite content when they were the controlling entity on the server and staunchly against allowing in new entities. They're not magically saints now that a different force is the controlling entity.

My comment wasn't directed at any specific guild or group. I don't give 2 shits about which 2 groups of neckbeards and their merry bands of warmbodies are doing what. It's been the same clowns doing the same shit since TMO/IB days. I'm talking server population by and large does not agree with or enjoy the way the endgame works on this server and they haven't for a very long time. Many continue to play in spite of it because they enjoy the game for other reasons



Have you forgotten server history now? The C/R rotation showed that these "silent majority" guilds still weren't happy when given a bigger piece of the pie. When you removed competitive guilds from the equation, they continued squabbling amongst themselves.

That's what these people want. To weasel and Arcler their way to more loot rather than killing dragons. And what we learned from the C/R rotation is that this server is never going to tee up free loot for guilds just because they exist.

C/R was a clusterfuck for a variety of reasons. Nobody is asking for that back. Nor is anyone asking for "free loot". People are just saying they don't want to participate in 16 hours (per mob and every week or less for years on end) of staring at a screen waiting to run a pre-practiced (for dozens of hours) footrace to hopefully get FTE on a mob and probably still lose cause someone else was scripting or simply had better ping to the server.



If you want to raid, you should have enough ambition to prepare for killing the targets you want and the skill to see it through.

This is Everquest we're talking about. Acting like anything on this server requires true "skill" is laughable at best. EQ is a game about knowledge. Very very little mechanical skill is required. As for ambition? I'd argue the lengths people are required to go to in order to get endgame pixels here goes way beyond ambition and borders on psychotic.



The intention of this server is not to coddle the "silent minority." The intention here is to be a nostalgia based server true to the original mission. And the truth is, these people would have never have been max level or had epics during this era.

The intention of this server as stated (ad nauseam) by the people in charge is to recreate classic EQ as closely as possible and serve as a sort of "museum" of what EQ was in the classic era. The list of "not classic" changes made to P99 is too long to count. Many of them are specifically tied to the endgame systems that you're defending.

[Viscere]

Root Dain / Kael

Remove rolls

Pixels foodstamps for elf blue collars and other sub par pecks (riot) have nothing to do on p99

[wagorf]

changes like instancing and rotations.etc have historically been more popular than the alternative. Live EQ has more players than P99 and it always has. WoW at it's peak (instanced literally EVERYTHING) had something like 30-40x more players than EQ ever had at any point. The only reason EQ had open world "competitive" (lol) endgame raids is because they were the first major MMO of their kind and didn't know any better. Instances were added as soon as they were technologically feasible to do so and they never looked back. There's a reason for this. Competing for open world raid targets is statistically unpopular. It's a very small vocal minority that crows about how great it is.
.

This guy spitting facts

[Viscere]

He wants a carebear version of p99

which is not going to happen, because that's how p99 is alive and thriving compared to all TLPs that have died, repeatedly

[cd288]

He wants a carebear version of p99

which is not going to happen, because that's how p99 is alive and thriving compared to all TLPs that have died, repeatedly

Well no. The TLPs die because they eventually get into expansions no one likes and then a new one starts and everyone goes and plays that one. Not saying I’m in favor of instancing because I’m not, but instancing isn’t why TLPs servers are eventually dead; if it was, no one would ever play each time a TLP comes out, but instead there’s tons of people playing.

[BlackBellamy]

This guy spitting facts

Yeah well the POPULAR alternative exists. A dozen of them for that matter, with a hundred billion subscribers.

All these billions of people press a button which launches their game and they log in and they're all in there. Then they press another button which launches a private mini-game just for them and their friends. That's popular. Launching two games to play one.

That's the modern MMOG paradigm. The open-world is simply a social meeting space so you can enter a private game. God forbid you should be inconvenienced or delayed or in any way bothered by anyone other than your select group of elite instancers. What's the appeal of that? It's literally going to your Steam friends, 'hey guys wanna play a session of Total War' and boom you and your friends are enjoying a private multiplayer game. But in MMOGS you replace that by a tedious process where you have to load and log into a complicated environment that is merely a gateway to another game. Oh look I'm in a fantasy world. You're not in a fantasy world. You're in a social meeting space for your next private game.

[SantagarBrax]

It's rather clear that some repetitive commenters here have never played live from launch, don't play now and just like trolling, and have no idea what's possible within p99.

Things are still being innovated now, even 23 years after launch and 12 years after p99. Some people are doing things that never occurred back on live, in era, nor here.

The true beauty of p99 is that there is something for everyone, no matter how much or how little time and commitment one chooses to invest. There is simply no need to lobotomize one particular experience over another and those of you advocating for just that are the truly selfish players.

[hotkarlmarxbros]

He wants a carebear version of p99

which is not going to happen, because that's how p99 is alive and thriving compared to all TLPs that have died, repeatedly

lol bro YOU want a carebear version of p99. youve literally done nothing of note the entire time youve played on this server other than log in and turn on auto attack. you are playing the most carebear version of the game ever, riding the coattails of others that are either cheating or wasting insane amounts of time in this game in the name of 'competition.' anybody who has participated in the competitive contrivance that is staring at your monitor wants this shit out. some want rotations, some want random, but most just want the engagements vulnerable to cheating to no longer be cheatable, however that occurs.

youre a walking embodiment of a clown emoji and i feel second hand embarrassment reading the moronic things you post.

[Graahle]

He wants a carebear version of p99

which is not going to happen, because that's how p99 is alive and thriving compared to all TLPs that have died, repeatedly

Alive and thriving

TLPs that have died, repeatedly

What's your experience with TLPs? Have you played one for longer than a week? Did you raid? What guild on what TLP? Or are you just regurgitating the collective P99 raiders' group-think opinion because it's cool to do here?

Instanced raids are literally what P99 needs to keep all of you majestically fat losers from screaming at each other all day on the forums and in the UN (UN for elf simulator lmfao srs?)

[Viscere]

It seems I've hurt your feelings

[Hisamori]

This is certainly a stressful time but rest assured Putin is only in Eastern Ukraine right, he won't invade France. No need for cultural PTSD episodes from Napolean getting wiped out trying to cross the Berezina.

[Viscere]

Napoleon was a butcher and a tyrant

However he invented useful stuff probably still in use in your country to this date

[eisley]

I understand the roll for KT. But can someone explain how getting a 1 second head-start on Statue really helps? On Green, the first guy ahead of the pack is usually getting stunned/one-rounded by a Guardian or Vindi. In races I'm in I often purposely stand behind someone else so they get aggro on these mopbs first so I have a better chance of engaging Statue and surviving. It is never consistently the first guy off the line that gets a successful FTE on Statue because of all the KoS mobs I mentioned.

It doesn't. That's precisely why the 30 minute documentary about Stunningly ONLY shows his jumps off the line. He could give them a full second head start and still win pretty reliably. He's just really good at the mechanics of FTE races. I had never met the guy before in my life, yet the first time I heard him do a race training session I was impressed, he reminded me of Kelzaraz. He knows every little trick to every race, and he practices. A lot.

Since the beginning, this game has been dominated by a few. In early Velious, people like Kelzaraz, Yumyum, Fingerz, Brutillus got the majority of ToV FTE's. Some people are simply better than others. They care more. They work harder. It pays off.

Ultimately, the crux is that *even if Stunningly was using a script to get a 100ms jump*, it would be largely inconsequential in the grand scheme. The fact he gains 2000-5000ms more of a lead during the actual race is much more impressive in my opinion than his fast jumps. He reminds me of what Kelzaraz used to say - if you stop strafing for even a split second during a race, you failed. Point is, until you master the mechanics, you can't even truly understand why you're losing.

[Viscere]

Rolling for mobs is for cucks

Rooting Kael would be much better

[Ripqozko]

Rolling for mobs is for cucks

Rooting Kael would be much better

Sorry your guild is dead, cry more

[Viscere]

We kill even bagged vulaks

sorry u got kicked out of all guilds lulz

[Ripqozko]

Furoar — Yesterday at 9:50 PM
There is nothing to do on blue any more. Even if you create a guild and take it to the top, you still can't play with this server. Just send in someone to roll. No win? Not even a point to batphone it.

Dead Guild, sorry you got

[greasemonk]

Furoar — Yesterday at 9:50 PM
There is nothing to do on blue any more. Even if you create a guild and take it to the top, you still can't play with this server. Just send in someone to roll. No win? Not even a point to batphone it.

Dead Guild, sorry you got

Foster the environment of cheating and doesn't want to play if he can't 'win'.

Too bad, so sad, big mad, get fucked.

[Viscere]

Dain/kael are 3 mobs out of 94 Events VQ competes on

That's 91 Competitive Events now

Until GMs turn em into rolls, Vq still dominates em

Sorry your app got denied

[Ennewi]

https://i.imgur.com/nNwZrJw.jpg

[starkind]

Instead of riots.

Maybe roiters could calmly 3xplain why they feel that way and then go hime and get a guds night rest. So the next meaorning they can be even calmer and maybe ask what they can do to help or whatever is important for their competitors or the servers without setting fires. Yelling or disruptive behavior injuring people indirectly because they're super mad

[Viscere]

they're busy making memes in the UN channel while watching us kill mobs in game

[PlsNoBan]

they're busy making memes in the UN channel while watching us kill mobs in game

https://i.imgur.com/aUggWL9.jpg

[PlsNoBan]

inb4 Viscere is actually GM of guild. I don't actually know who runs these shitshows these days.

[Viscere]

double post cause mad, bad, fat

[SantagarBrax]

It doesn't. That's precisely why the 30 minute documentary about Stunningly ONLY shows his jumps off the line. He could give them a full second head start and still win pretty reliably. He's just really good at the mechanics of FTE races. I had never met the guy before in my life, yet the first time I heard him do a race training session I was impressed, he reminded me of Kelzaraz. He knows every little trick to every race, and he practices. A lot.

Since the beginning, this game has been dominated by a few. In early Velious, people like Kelzaraz, Yumyum, Fingerz, Brutillus got the majority of ToV FTE's. Some people are simply better than others. They care more. They work harder. It pays off.

Ultimately, the crux is that *even if Stunningly was using a script to get a 100ms jump*, it would be largely inconsequential in the grand scheme. The fact he gains 2000-5000ms more of a lead during the actual race is much more impressive in my opinion than his fast jumps. He reminds me of what Kelzaraz used to say - if you stop strafing for even a split second during a race, you failed. Point is, until you master the mechanics, you can't even truly understand why you're losing.

An excellent observation which broadens the story into perspective. It's a testament towards the true goal of most of these forum posters attempting a short story conviction rather than any meaningful thought towards the entire saga.

Haven't we learned that appeasement never works? How many times do we have to continue down the same trodden path?

Insanity

[greasemonk]

Y'all need Jesus

[Ennewi]

He could give them a full second head start and still win pretty reliably. He's just really good at the mechanics of FTE races. I had never met the guy before in my life, yet the first time I heard him do a race training session I was impressed, he reminded me of Kelzaraz. He knows every little trick to every race, and he practices. A lot.

There must be old recordings that show him practicing these runs on a private server, which could be uploaded for public viewing to substantiate these claims.

Ultimately, the crux is that *even if Stunningly was using a script to get a 100ms jump*, it would be largely inconsequential in the grand scheme. The fact he gains 2000-5000ms more of a lead during the actual race is much more impressive in my opinion than his fast jumps. He reminds me of what Kelzaraz used to say - if you stop strafing for even a split second during a race, you failed. Point is, until you master the mechanics, you can't even truly understand why you're losing.

If the player was willing to cheat in order to gain an "inconsequential" advantage, it follows then that they would also be using the same or similar method throughout the race wherever possible to secure FTE, otherwise the risk wouldn't be worth the reward. If someone has already committed to breaking the rules, risking everything, they will benefit from doing so as much as possible, which seems to be the case overall with just how many FTEs were had. Who knows though? A few less FTEs here and there, and maybe nobody would have suspected anything.

The fact he gains 2000-5000ms more of a lead during the actual race is much more impressive in my opinion than his fast jumps.

More questionable now than impressive. Another video focusing on this portion of the race would have been great, but unlikely now that it isn't necessary given the change.

[Kohedron]

you nerds still masturbating to 60 year old pixels?

k

[Vianna]

There must be old recordings that show him practicing these runs on a private server, which could be uploaded for public viewing to substantiate these claims.



If the player was willing to cheat in order to gain an "inconsequential" advantage, it follows then that they would also be using the same or similar method throughout the race wherever possible to secure FTE, otherwise the risk wouldn't be worth the reward. If someone has already committed to breaking the rules, risking everything, they will benefit from doing so as much as possible, which seems to be the case overall with just how many FTEs were had. Who knows though? A few less FTEs here and there, and maybe nobody would have suspected anything.


Typical dipshit response right here. He beat me so you therefor should provide proof of practice and everything he does....What a moron.
More questionable now than impressive. Another video focusing on this portion of the race would have been great, but unlikely now that it isn't necessary given the change.

[cd288]

There must be old recordings that show him practicing these runs on a private server, which could be uploaded for public viewing to substantiate these claims.



If the player was willing to cheat in order to gain an "inconsequential" advantage, it follows then that they would also be using the same or similar method throughout the race wherever possible to secure FTE, otherwise the risk wouldn't be worth the reward. If someone has already committed to breaking the rules, risking everything, they will benefit from doing so as much as possible, which seems to be the case overall with just how many FTEs were had. Who knows though? A few less FTEs here and there, and maybe nobody would have suspected anything.



More questionable now than impressive. Another video focusing on this portion of the race would have been great, but unlikely now that it isn't necessary given the change.

Also the guy who wrote that comment’s argument is essentially “yeah we cheated but it only gives us a slight advantage so people shouldn’t be upset about it”

Lol

[Reiwa]

How much time did the bad bald man gain on the other bald bad men by scripting?

[eisley]

If the player was willing to cheat in order to gain an "inconsequential" advantage, it follows then that they would also be using the same or similar method throughout the race wherever possible to secure FTE, otherwise the risk wouldn't be worth the reward. If someone has already committed to breaking the rules, risking everything, they will benefit from doing so as much as possible, which seems to be the case overall with just how many FTEs were had. Who knows though? A few less FTEs here and there, and maybe nobody would have suspected anything.

To be clear, are you suggesting he is scripting the *entire* race? On a race where you are frequently stunned, dodge roamers, and juke stutter step, and have to macro target the end to wand Statue? I don't want to put words in your mouth.

I'm sure there's videos of the practice server races. I spent a few hours racing him and others myself personally. He didn't win an overwhelming amount of times. I even won once and I hadn't played in 4 years. Not only that, but Venice ended up beating him for all-time best time (87 sec?).

If you've spent time practicing the Statue race, you know it's won or lost on the two rocks, and the turns. The faster you turn, the faster you're back to strafing. So swinging the mouse instantly into the *right position* is essential. Not only that, people who mess up the rocks, or Levitating to the ledge aren't even competitive. There's so many other things you can mess up too, like being Not An Ogre (grats on stuns), DA'ing thru Vindi then not clicking it off to Wand Statue, not running 60fps and failing to Levitate the arena ledge, not strafing properly (this is #1 reason), not macro targetting statue, or failing the door opening, and probably like 10 other things I'm forgetting.

Chooch's Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIPaCYpkuqkNsceeYSvjQOA/videos) shows a lot of old Awakened FTE races. You'll notice that I (Chocomao) start in the lead pretty often. This is because my roommate (Yumyum) was our primary facetracker, and so I'd hear him screaming right next to me, instead of having to wait for screenshare lag or someone in voice chat. You can even see Chooch's slowing to LET me get in the lead sometimes. Despite this, I didn't get many FTE's. Being in the lead wasn't an advantage for anything other than Eashen, Ikatiar, Aary, etc. So yeah, I got a lot of those, but I only ever got one Vulak, and one or two triplets or doubles. I even ended up switching to Bard to do first group DA because I was almost guaranteed to be in the lead up until around PoM zone-in, but this allowed the rest of the group to save idols, and 2nd bard DA to hold off until my idol was about to drop, which allowed us to dominate the deep dragons. Hell, we even had Yumyum target the Vulak drake roamer on the tracker so we could spam /assist Loststalker as approaching Vulak and use Slowstone Ambers 250 range, and we nearly got 30 Vulaks in a row. It was a team effort. We practiced. We worked as a team. It paid off.

Point is, there's a lot more to FTE races than the jump off the line. It's so reductive that I'm surprised people are so up in arms over this. When examining race videos back when I was very active, we didn't even really put much thought into the jump off the line. Statue is a 90 sec race, ToV goes beyond 2 minute races. (well, used to). 100ms of a 90,000ms race. You can lose 100ms by failing to strafe for half a second.

[Croco]

Point is, there's a lot more to FTE races than the jump off the line. It's so reductive that I'm surprised people are so up in arms over this. When examining race videos back when I was very active, we didn't even really put much thought into the jump off the line. Statue is a 90 sec race, ToV goes beyond 2 minute races. (well, used to). 100ms of a 90,000ms race. You can lose 100ms by failing to strafe for half a second.

How much time do you lose when you're not first off the line and you spend the entirety of the race bumping into other racers that aren't cheating? Just ballpark is good.

[eisley]

That's kind of my point - if bumping into people is an actual problem for you, you haven't even mastered the basics of racing yet. That makes it hard to figure out why you're really losing.

[Ripqozko]

That's kind of my point - if bumping into people is an actual problem for you, you haven't even mastered the basics of racing yet. That makes it hard to figure out why you're really losing.

or we can just roll and skip all that.

[eisley]

or we can just roll and skip all that.

I guess, if that's what the server wants.

Personally, my favorite part of this game was the competitive spirit of the FTE races (NToV especially). I never played for pixels. I quit the game #1 in DKP, I simply never spent it. What kept me interested was the intricacies and strategy and competition of racing. I'm sure others enjoyed it too.

That said, I admit I'm from a different era of player. The community has evolved, and if they prefer to /random, I can accept that. A lot of things about the raid scene have changed and it doesn't appeal so much to me anymore. I miss 4am Zlexak's with 18 people, or Statue with 20, or soloing Hate Minis, or duoing Terror. I miss NToV races. I miss the 5am all-Rogue Sneak NToV FTE races. None of this is coming back, and that's okay.

[Ripqozko]

I guess, if that's what the server wants.

Personally, my favorite part of this game was the competitive spirit of the FTE races (NToV especially). I never played for pixels. I quit the game #1 in DKP, I simply never spent it. What kept me interested was the intricacies and strategy and competition of racing. I'm sure others enjoyed it too.

That said, I admit I'm from a different era of player. The community has evolved, and if they prefer to /random, I can accept that. A lot of things about the raid scene have changed and it doesn't appeal so much to me anymore. I miss 4am Zlexak's with 18 people, or Statue with 20, or soloing Hate Minis, or duoing Terror. I miss NToV races. I miss the 5am all-Rogue Sneak NToV FTE races. None of this is coming back, and that's okay.

Looks like you started raiding after sleeper woke? seems competition ended.

[Ennewi]

To be clear, are you suggesting he is scripting the *entire* race? On a race where you are frequently stunned, dodge roamers, and juke stutter step, and have to macro target the end to wand Statue?

If getting off the line ASAP is of no consequence whatsoever, than why would anyone use scripting unless there was more to the script than that alone? It was all but confirmed that a script was being used; removing the how-to videos only underscored what everyone took away from the mini documentary. If someone is willing to cheat for what you consider to be a negligible amount of time, what would be the purpose, considering they are as good as you claim? Also, there are other cases where human error revealed scripting on this project, with unintended and embarrassing outcomes. It's not as though these accusations came out of left field.

I don't want to put words in your mouth.

And my teeth appreciate that.

I'm sure there's videos of the practice server races. I spent a few hours racing him and others myself personally. He didn't win an overwhelming amount of times. I even won once and I hadn't played in 4 years. Not only that, but Venice ended up beating him for all-time best time (87 sec?).

Players who are suspected of two-boxing are put through a series of tests on the spot. It would be interesting to see if he could demonstrate the same reaction times in different settings with different random numbers being used as the green light. If I was in Vanquish, and felt that their was nothing suspicious about those numbers, that would take priority over creating antagonistic RNF threads.

If you've spent time practicing the Statue race, you know it's won or lost on the two rocks, and the turns. The faster you turn, the faster you're back to strafing. So swinging the mouse instantly into the *right position* is essential. Not only that, people who mess up the rocks, or Levitating to the ledge aren't even competitive. There's so many other things you can mess up too, like being Not An Ogre (grats on stuns), DA'ing thru Vindi then not clicking it off to Wand Statue, not running 60fps and failing to Levitate the arena ledge, not strafing properly (this is #1 reason), not macro targetting statue, or failing the door opening, and probably like 10 other things I'm forgetting.

KT instead of Statue, but yes I got the gist and realized it was pointless because my lev had less and less buoyancy for every player involved; in other words, my best times were only possible in practice. If the 30 minute documentary is ridiculous to you, which seems likely since that's how it was described, than consider how the actual races look from an outsider's perspective. And the wall staring. And the pre-parked alt armies. That someone had to compile that much evidence together rather than play the actual game, worry-free, says something about the state of the game.

[eisley]

Looks like you started raiding after sleeper woke? seems competition ended.

What? I was there for the Sleeper awakening. I was also there for the server first Nagafen, Vox, Trakanon, AoW, Tunare, and most other kills.

I remember killstealing Phara Dar from TMO solo on my rogue with an Ivandyr's Hoop and Trak Tooth. I remember blurring VP dragons at 5% to insta heal them back to 100%. I remember powerleveling in Skyfire and getting from 1-60 in a few hours. I remember when Lynuga was the most important NPC in the game.

All of that stuff felt more competitive than /randoms and 120 man zergs.

[Ennewi]

says something about the state of the game.

Or rather the community, though MMOs are as much about both.

[eisley]

If getting off the line ASAP is of no consequence whatsoever, than why would anyone use scripting unless there was more to the script than that alone?

Well, that's kind of my point for why I don't believe he's cheating. When I practiced with him, he certainly didn't win every jump, and I doubt he does on live either, but admittedly I don't raid lately.

For a script to work for the full race, it'd have to be from beginning to end to time up properly, and if that WERE the case, that video could've been much more convincing by showing the actual races, not the jumps. If he's consistently doing a perfect 90 sec race, the precise angles, you could bind sight and overlay them and there wouldn't be a shred of doubt.

I also don't think he's cheating because he's really good, knowledgable, and practices a lot. In my experience, these are not things cheaters do. Why spend hundreds of hours practicing a race if you're going to script it? Why host guild training sessions and be able to answer every question regarding every race and know every trick unless he's just... good?

The video also hinges on him having 108 ping. I spoke to him and he said his usual ping is much lower. Without the 108, his jumps drop from "inhuman" to "top 1%". Another big factor is level of attention - I used to keep my hand on the mouse, autorun bound to middle click, and use that to jump, then swap to W (which was bound to both Forward and Strafe Left). Obviously GINA is a factor too. The sound trigger you use matters.



Also, there are other cases where human error revealed scripting on this project, with unintended and embarrassing outcomes. It's not as though these accusations came out of left field.


Are there any of Stunningly doing this? I mean, I don't doubt people can script autorun. But I do not believe people are scripting full races and I do not believe scripted jumps matter much. Back when you HAD to use an autoclicker to win Scout Cherisa, it made sense to change it, because you simply had no chance otherwise. Remove the /random, and scripted jumps aren't even a problem anymore.

Sure, I agree that someone who cheats will go to any length. But isn't it curious how this person who gets a lot of FTE's is a really good player who practices and studies a lot? It's just so strange, the person who works the hardest to get better, is the best.


Players who are suspected of two-boxing are put through a series of tests on the spot. It would be interesting to see if he could demonstrate the same reaction times in different settings with different random numbers being used as the green light. If I was in Vanquish, and felt that their was nothing suspicious about those numbers, that would take priority over creating antagonistic RNF threads.


I'm not opposed to this, but I don't think you can glean much from it. Different numbers wouldn't matter though, as everyone uses GINA, which is legal. I don't support cheating, even if they're my guildmates or friends. I've been accused of cheating and RMT and other garbage a lot in this game, despite the lack of proof. I'm sympathetic to false accusations.

Is Stunningly truly getting first jump on every single Statue? (Or was, I guess) If that's the case, that does change things and the video should've mentioned it.

That someone had to compile that much evidence together rather than play the actual game, worry-free, says something about the state of the game.

Definitely agree with you here. This whole thing is a little fascinating to me as a mostly-outsider because I used to get first jump off the line frequently due to reasons explained above and was accused of cheating a few times.

However, I don't know if the problem is that people today are more inclined to spend 2 months making a documentary instead of spending those 2 months practicing. I don't know if Riot has a practice server or how much they spend there.

p99 is a strange hobby, sure. But racing can be a lot of fun for some people. NToV races were my favorite part of the game. I did a lot of tracking too. The competition, and contributing to the guilds success are what drove me. Is it really THAT hard to believe someone is just really good?

Back in 2016, Kelzaraz got 5 of 6 Vulak FTE's. That was the first time I saw people posting about scripting. Kelz recorded most of them, and the most interesting thing I took away from them were that the first person off the line didn't even survive to Vulak a single time.

[jbel123]

W

Are there any of Stunningly doing this? I mean, I don't doubt people can script autorun. But I do not believe people are scripting full races and I do not believe scripted jumps matter much. Back when you HAD to use an autoclicker to win Scout Cherisa, it made sense to change it, because you simply had no chance otherwise. Remove the /random, and scripted jumps aren't even a problem anymore.

Sure, I agree that someone who cheats will go to any length. But isn't it curious how this person who gets a lot of FTE's is a really good player who practices and studies a lot? It's just so strange, the person who works the hardest to get better, is the best.

.

https://youtu.be/EjDVoBJFKqs


Also, I want to buy a Bio Orb. Got one for sale?

[eisley]

https://youtu.be/EjDVoBJFKqs


Also, I want to buy a Bio Orb. Got one for sale?

Probably, I have several. You should ask your officers how their petition went. Oops.

[eisley]

https://youtu.be/EjDVoBJFKqs


Also, I want to buy a Bio Orb. Got one for sale?

Serious question though, can you explain what I'm looking at here? I never did DN swarming, or really much swarming at all. Is this a video Stunningly uploaded? Using a metronome is obviously nothing new, but what, the video doesn't match the keypresses?

[eisley]

https://youtu.be/EjDVoBJFKqs


Also, I want to buy a Bio Orb. Got one for sale?

Oh I see it now. Precisely 4.0 seconds between songs.

Yeah, this video is interesting. Got a link to the accompanying RNF thread?

[Viscere]

We are gonna summarize the kill list once cycle is over, but it's not looning good for <All we do is cry and UN memes>

[Ennewi]

For a script to work for the full race, it'd have to be from beginning to end to time up properly, and if that WERE the case, that video could've been much more convincing by showing the actual races, not the jumps. If he's consistently doing a perfect 90 sec race, the precise angles, you could bind sight and overlay them and there wouldn't be a shred of doubt.

Ipi40cb_RsI

I also don't think he's cheating because he's really good, knowledgable, and practices a lot. In my experience, these are not things cheaters do. Why spend hundreds of hours practicing a race if you're going to script it? Why host guild training sessions and be able to answer every question regarding every race and know every trick unless he's just... good?

"As the stats showed, Barry Bonds was a very prolific home run hitter before the steroid era."

"If his career had ended in 1998, Bonds would be a . 290 hitter with 411 home runs, 1,917 hits, 1,216 RBI, 1,357 walks (289 intentional) and a . 966 OPS (164 OPS+). There are four other players eligible for the Hall of Fame with at least 400 home runs and 1,900 hits..."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2017/01/17/if-barry-bonds-ended-his-career-before-steroid-use-hed-be-a-clear-hall-of-famer/
https://www.quora.com/What-kind-of-career-stats-would-Barry-Bonds-have-put-up-if-he-did-not-do-steroids

''You have to have a basic gift and then it's how you work with that gift, how you shape it, the work that you do, the intensity you do it in and then the motivation for the race. I'm very motivated for this race. It's everything.''

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/29/sports/cycling-training-not-racing-gives-armstrong-his-edge (https://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/29/sports/cycling-training-not-racing-gives-armstrong-his-edge.html#:~:text=Armstrong%20spends%20an%20hour%2 0a,abdominal%20stuff%2C%20lower%20back%20stuff.)

Are there any of Stunningly doing this? I mean, I don't doubt people can script autorun. But I do not believe people are scripting full races and I do not believe scripted jumps matter much.

Those specific cases involved others who demonstrated similar reaction times in the video.

Sure, I agree that someone who cheats will go to any length. But isn't it curious how this person who gets a lot of FTE's is a really good player who practices and studies a lot? It's just so strange, the person who works the hardest to get better, is the best.

But the argument isn't that the players in question aren't capable of securing FTEs regularly, it's that they chose to give themselves an advantage. If they didn't think that the advantage was needed or beneficial, they wouldn't have resorted to using it. And apparently at least one of them is S tier at raiding/racing in EQ, so if any player knew whether or not that advantage translated into FTEs, wouldn't they know? And if they knew it didn't make a significant difference, why would they use it anyway?

"We're talking about fractions of a second here. And uh, over time, they add up to a lot."

yZjCQ3T5yXo

I'm not opposed to this, but I don't think you can glean much from it.

It would show that the player either could or could not match previous reaction times. If the player was not able to achieve the same or similar reaction times, it would indicate either that they had relied on scripting in the past or recently suffered a hand injury, likely from punching someone's teeth out.

However, I don't know if the problem is that people today are more inclined to spend 2 months making a documentary instead of spending those 2 months practicing. I don't know if Riot has a practice server or how much they spend there.

p99 is a strange hobby, sure. But racing can be a lot of fun for some people. NToV races were my favorite part of the game. I did a lot of tracking too. The competition, and contributing to the guilds success are what drove me. Is it really THAT hard to believe someone is just really good?

Pulling unrooted dragons was a lot of fun for quite a few players as well. Some of the things they were able to do were surprising and they did put a lot of time into knowing zone layouts, spawns, and pathing like the back of their hand. Ssouky is a name that always comes to mind because he alone brought a CSG raid to a successful conclusion, showing up after many hours were lost to what felt like a mobius strip of respawns. All it took was a pair of fresh eyes and calm directions, and within half an hour Lady N died without incident. These were referred to as the "playmakers", a term that eventually became a point of contention within the alliance due to loot distribution. It always comes down to pixels. Playmakers were good, Ssouky was great, but no one is as good as what was shown in the recording.

Again, it would be helpful if more of the race was analyzed, but that would require a lot more effort than either accepting the change or subjecting the player(s) in question to a simple test.

[cd288]

Remember when vanquish had videos up on YouTube about how to script and then immediately took them down when they got caught cheating? Lol

[hobart]

We are gonna summarize the kill list once cycle is over, but it's not looning good for <All we do is cry and UN memes>

You keep saying "we" like you're an important part of it.

[Viscere]

I'm in here getting under your skin while soaking in elf pixels

It's quite relevant

[eisley]

First of all, thanks for the insightful reply. I realize this is RNF but I think this is topic important to warrant civility because I believe resorting to /random will remove the last shred of competitive spirit left in the game, and that not only will undoubtedly hurt the playerbase, it also just makes me kind of sad. I care about this game, it was never Classic EQ, but it was Project 1999, and I loved this game for what it was, warts and all.


"As the stats showed, Barry Bonds was a very prolific home run hitter before the steroid era."


My apologies for being ignorant of the metaphor, but I think I understand what you're saying.

I did a little research, and it looks like steroids weren't legal at the time, but in sort of a grey area. I see this era referred to as the 'steroid era' suggesting he wasn't alone. Also, I see his stats jumped an astronomical amount, to a level not seen before or since. whereas gaining 100ms on 90,000ms race is, I think we can agree, statistically within the margin of error. And Stunningly, while good, is certainly not the undeniable best racer of all time, though he's up there in my eyes. Kelzaraz, Aikons, Brutillus, Quean, Mani, Fingerz, among others, are all up there with Stunningly. Hell, the greatest single accomplish I witnessed in this game was Kelzaraz showing up to his very first raid in Awakened, zero raid experience, and getting *FOUR* FTE's his first raid cycle.

Now, I know what you're probably thinking, so yeah - how did the rest of this race go? Did Stunningly even win? It's really frustrating how the video glosses over this stuff. For the record, I've been to maybe 5 or 6 Statue races with Stunningly, of which he won once. I actually was right behind him and tagged Vindi for him.

Bonds was in a league of his own. Stunningly shows, from the small sample I've seen, a pretty typical win rate for a good player. That said, steroids provided a bigger benefit than a scripted line jump does, so we'll call this a wash - I concede you may be right, I get your point, but I don't think the Bonds comparison is accurate.


But the argument isn't that the players in question aren't capable of securing FTEs regularly, it's that they chose to give themselves an advantage. If they didn't think that the advantage was needed or beneficial, they wouldn't have resorted to using it. And apparently at least one of them is S tier at raiding/racing in EQ, so if any player knew whether or not that advantage translated into FTEs, wouldn't they know? And if they knew it didn't make a significant difference, why would they use it anyway?


I agree with you here, and all I can really say is I don't know. IF Stunningly is cheating, I think it's very stupid and not worth tarnishing his legacy over. IF he's being falsely accused, I am sympathetic. I was falsely accused of RMT and banned for 4 months. I was falsely accused of stealing an item from a guild and acquitted only recently (yeah, I'm waiting for that apology guys, I'm sure it's in the mail).

What bothers me is the level to which Riot is convinced he is cheating. I was in Riot briefly when I first returned. One of the first things that struck me is how obsessed they were about Stunningly and Furoar. I thought, jeeze, these guys are living rent free in their heads. They don't worry about their own tactics, they just complain about cheating. It was a toxic, and demoralizing environment. I talked to a guildmate/friend of mine since Vanilla about it, and he said, "This isn't Awakened or Rampage. This isn't 2016. The game you remember is dead. The friends you remember are gone. They cheat, we cheat, mutual respect for your opponent is a foreign concept now, and there's a reason us old-timers aren't leading these guilds anymore. My suggestion is to ignore the drama."

(To be clear, 99% of the people I met in Riot seemed perfectly cool and I don't have strong opinions about Riot or Vanquish honestly - but the difference in guild morale and leadership is so stark its like a slap in the face.)

I haven't been relevant in the raid scene since the Obama administration, and even then my relevance is pretty debatable. But it's been interesting watching as an outside over the past few years.

I was not a playmaker. My roommate, Yumyum was, and I did excel at small group content, but I just wasn't a great FTE'r. I got maybe 10 FTEs in Awakened, it frustrated me and I felt guilty, I wanted to help more, contribute to the guilds success. Someone suggested that due to my high attendance, I should play bard so the FTE group always has one DA, and since I don't speak on voice, I can be the first (Aary) DA. My brother had a bard (Chocomao) and yeah, I started playing it and it worked beautifully. I got quick jumps because our primary facetracker was sitting next to me screaming "POP" in my ear, and though it didn't pay off in yellow text, it paid off in guild success, and along with doing a lot of off-hours tracking, I felt like I carved out a niche for myself in Awakened.

The point of that "cool story bro" is that I don't see people doing things like this very often anymore. Asking themselves, "how can I be better?" I see a lot more pointing fingers at the opponent.

One last story, since I suspect not many left know about this. This isn't even the most egregious example of cheating, even if it is true. Back in Kunark, a certain guild exploited the PD race for months and months, not even being the tiniest bit discrete about it. Franswa or some other old-as-dirt player probably remembers better than me, but I want to say they got upwards of THIRTY PD's in a row. It was so blatant, so infuriating, so much evidence that we stopped even trying. Nilbog always said his worst nightmare was a 1-guild raid scene, so we forced his hand. The result? A forced rotation, and the guild disbanding not long after because all competition was gone, no one was punished.


"We're talking about fractions of a second here. And uh, over time, they add up to a lot."


Love the reference, but they don't accrue over time. Every race is a new 90,000ms race. 100ms of 90,000ms is always negligible. How often do you see races come down to the last 100ms? It happens, sure, but it's very rare. Not enough to even be statistically quantifiable.



It would show that the player either could or could not match previous reaction times. If the player was not able to achieve the same or similar reaction times, it would indicate either that they had relied on scripting in the past or recently suffered a hand injury, likely from punching someone's teeth out.


I mean, I have no issue with this. But, I do have one question... what if he succeeds?

I asked Stunningly and Nilbog on Discord if they'd be willing to do this. I'd love to see it, personally. Be careful what you wish for. (that goes for both sides, heh)


Pulling unrooted dragons was a lot of fun for quite a few players as well. Some of the things they were able to do were surprising and they did put a lot of time into knowing zone layouts, spawns, and pathing like the back of their hand. Ssouky is a name that always comes to mind because he alone brought a CSG raid to a successful conclusion, showing up after many hours were lost to what felt like a mobius strip of respawns. All it took was a pair of fresh eyes and calm directions, and within half an hour Lady N died without incident. These were referred to as the "playmakers", a term that eventually became a point of contention within the alliance due to loot distribution. It always comes down to pixels. Playmakers were good, Ssouky was great, but no one is as good as what was shown in the recording.

Yep, you get it. Since the very beginning, those 'playmakers' have ran the entire game. I could name dozens, from Perun, to Getsome, to Calrizien, to Kegluas, to Eratani, to Yumyum, to Zeelot, to Detoxx, to Furoar, to Quean, to Kelzaraz, to Fingerz, to Hokushin, to Stunningly, to Venice, and many others. I remember watching Yumyum prep for each cycle, pre-drafting every Twitter batphone, facetracking the highest priority target, for upwards of 24 hours straight. I remember sneaking up on my rogue to pull, and he'd tell me the order of drakes and how far apart so I knew when to hide from flurries.

Meanwhile we had well assembled FTE groups, ideally 2 bards 4 monks, getting pre-targets. Pulls weren't too difficult back then, thanks to clickies. I remember fighting a dirty Vulak at zone-in one time and keeping the train kited the entire time going from 4 way back to trio with just Bladestoppers. I remember Quean rushing to camp to swap out Bladestoppers with me, lol.

Moments like that are what made me love this game. I never hated BDA, TMO, Aftermath, AG, or anyone. I respected their competition. Detoxx and Aikons are probably the two people I respect the most in this game. Aikons is someone I met when he was lvl 59 and unguilded in Sebilis. I sent him a tell saying hey, want to learn how to duo Fungi King? He said "that's not possible" and I said "You'd be amazed what you can accomplish in this game if you drop that mindset." I showed him to pull it on my monk and he caught right on, even respecting my wishes not to share the strat.

(Course, there weren't many 60 shamans with full spell book back then anyways. Torpor was 150k+ or just never sold, guilds kept them, Canni4 was 100k, Malo, Bane, Pox around 30-40k. Even other spells were 10k. Plus you really wanted a shaman with the VP Ensnare spear. Anyways...)

Years later he would tell me that meeting me and hearing that changed his whole outlook on the game. Later, when he joined Aftermath, I was confused. Why not come to Awakened?
"You taught me that having something to overcome is the best part of this game. I'll always be your friend, but I don't want to ride your coattails. I want to beat you."

And he did. Aikons went on to become one of the best players in the game.

Detoxx was brash. We only ever spoke in-game once, and it was him calling me a "f[slur for homosexuals]" for clicking my guise in front of him over and over. When he finally got one from the same event I also got another, I sent him a tell saying grats. He didn't respond.

Aftermath started out very poorly. Awakened was much, much better. For those of us who were in IB/Rampage, Awakened was like shedding all the baggage and ego and stress and finally just being able to have fun. I could stop pretending to give a shit about Warders or server firsts. I could start doing the things I actually wanted to do (Dain rings, Vaniki, NToV, Plane of Mischief, etc). AM wasn't very competitive at first. During my time in the guild we only lost Vulak a few times. They focused on other targets, Kael, Dain, Yelinak, and grew slowly.

They never gave up. Slowly but surely the veterans of Awakened got burnt out, myself included, and AM kept growing, building alliances, mass recruiting. Whereas we didn't actively recruit, you had to know someone to vouch for you, and while the fall of Awakened is a different topic entirely, the point is that Aftermath's refusal to give up, their competitive drive led by Detoxx, was very admirable. He was passionate. If he delivered my pizza, I'd tip him very well. In the end, he won. His time came, because he refused to give up.

Even that guild that cheated, I never hated them. My own guild (IB, TR) famously had some of its prominent members go down for RMT, and I was 'glad' they got banned. They were my friends. It made me sad they chose to cheat, and to steal from us.


Again, it would be helpful if more of the race was analyzed, but that would require a lot more effort than either accepting the change or subjecting the player(s) in question to a simple test.

And this is what matters. I really hope we don't resort to /random without trying some alternatives first. Test him. Hell, make scripting jumps legal. Since the jump doesn't matter much and you can't viably script entire races, I'd be fine with this. It's not ideal, but it sure as fuck beats /random.

Competition is ALL WE HAVE. Barely anyone gives a shit about the loot, its always been about the competition. (okay, some people do care about the loot) I remember Nilbog telling me back in beta, his worst fear for the game was it becoming dominating by 1 guild or on a rotation. Uthgard chipped in, he would disband that guild. No competition will kill this game very quickly, just like it did in Kunark. Some of you may not realize it, but this game used to peak at 100-150 players primetime when a certain guild was dominating.

Has anyone played The Witcher 3's "Hearts of Stone"? Riot members should. Be careful what you wish for.

[Toxigen]

thats a lot of words you typed that nobody is going to read

[eisley]

That's okay. If you don't care about this topic you are not my target audience anyways.

Nobody listening to the other side is maybe part of the problem.

[Chortles Snortles]

imagine typing an elf dissertation
(lol)

[eisley]

Too bad this is RNF, where you have to pretend to not care.

Yes, it's an elf game, and you've spent hundreds of hours of your life playing it.

Also, Ainz is lame. Stupidest hero in AFK Arena.

[Arvan]

First of all, thanks for the insightful reply. I realize this is RNF but I think this is topic important to warrant civility because I believe resorting to /random will remove the last shred of competitive spirit left in the game, and that not only will undoubtedly hurt the playerbase, it also just makes me kind of sad. I care about this game, it was never Classic EQ, but it was Project 1999, and I loved this game for what it was, warts and all.



My apologies for being ignorant of the metaphor, but I think I understand what you're saying.

I did a little research, and it looks like steroids weren't legal at the time, but in sort of a grey area. I see this era referred to as the 'steroid era' suggesting he wasn't alone. Also, I see his stats jumped an astronomical amount, to a level not seen before or since. whereas gaining 100ms on 90,000ms race is, I think we can agree, statistically within the margin of error. And Stunningly, while good, is certainly not the undeniable best racer of all time, though he's up there in my eyes. Kelzaraz, Aikons, Brutillus, Quean, Mani, Fingerz, among others, are all up there with Stunningly. Hell, the greatest single accomplish I witnessed in this game was Kelzaraz showing up to his very first raid in Awakened, zero raid experience, and getting *FOUR* FTE's his first raid cycle.

Now, I know what you're probably thinking, so yeah - how did the rest of this race go? Did Stunningly even win? It's really frustrating how the video glosses over this stuff. For the record, I've been to maybe 5 or 6 Statue races with Stunningly, of which he won once. I actually was right behind him and tagged Vindi for him.

Bonds was in a league of his own. Stunningly shows, from the small sample I've seen, a pretty typical win rate for a good player. That said, steroids provided a bigger benefit than a scripted line jump does, so we'll call this a wash - I concede you may be right, I get your point, but I don't think the Bonds comparison is accurate.



I agree with you here, and all I can really say is I don't know. IF Stunningly is cheating, I think it's very stupid and not worth tarnishing his legacy over. IF he's being falsely accused, I am sympathetic. I was falsely accused of RMT and banned for 4 months. I was falsely accused of stealing an item from a guild and acquitted only recently (yeah, I'm waiting for that apology guys, I'm sure it's in the mail).

What bothers me is the level to which Riot is convinced he is cheating. I was in Riot briefly when I first returned. One of the first things that struck me is how obsessed they were about Stunningly and Furoar. I thought, jeeze, these guys are living rent free in their heads. They don't worry about their own tactics, they just complain about cheating. It was a toxic, and demoralizing environment. I talked to a guildmate/friend of mine since Vanilla about it, and he said, "This isn't Awakened or Rampage. This isn't 2016. The game you remember is dead. The friends you remember are gone. They cheat, we cheat, mutual respect for your opponent is a foreign concept now, and there's a reason us old-timers aren't leading these guilds anymore. My suggestion is to ignore the drama."

(To be clear, 99% of the people I met in Riot seemed perfectly cool and I don't have strong opinions about Riot or Vanquish honestly - but the difference in guild morale and leadership is so stark its like a slap in the face.)

I haven't been relevant in the raid scene since the Obama administration, and even then my relevance is pretty debatable. But it's been interesting watching as an outside over the past few years.

I was not a playmaker. My roommate, Yumyum was, and I did excel at small group content, but I just wasn't a great FTE'r. I got maybe 10 FTEs in Awakened, it frustrated me and I felt guilty, I wanted to help more, contribute to the guilds success. Someone suggested that due to my high attendance, I should play bard so the FTE group always has one DA, and since I don't speak on voice, I can be the first (Aary) DA. My brother had a bard (Chocomao) and yeah, I started playing it and it worked beautifully. I got quick jumps because our primary facetracker was sitting next to me screaming "POP" in my ear, and though it didn't pay off in yellow text, it paid off in guild success, and along with doing a lot of off-hours tracking, I felt like I carved out a niche for myself in Awakened.

The point of that "cool story bro" is that I don't see people doing things like this very often anymore. Asking themselves, "how can I be better?" I see a lot more pointing fingers at the opponent.

One last story, since I suspect not many left know about this. This isn't even the most egregious example of cheating, even if it is true. Back in Kunark, a certain guild exploited the PD race for months and months, not even being the tiniest bit discrete about it. Franswa or some other old-as-dirt player probably remembers better than me, but I want to say they got upwards of THIRTY PD's in a row. It was so blatant, so infuriating, so much evidence that we stopped even trying. Nilbog always said his worst nightmare was a 1-guild raid scene, so we forced his hand. The result? A forced rotation, and the guild disbanding not long after because all competition was gone, no one was punished.



Love the reference, but they don't accrue over time. Every race is a new 90,000ms race. 100ms of 90,000ms is always negligible. How often do you see races come down to the last 100ms? It happens, sure, but it's very rare. Not enough to even be statistically quantifiable.




I mean, I have no issue with this. But, I do have one question... what if he succeeds?

I asked Stunningly and Nilbog on Discord if they'd be willing to do this. I'd love to see it, personally. Be careful what you wish for. (that goes for both sides, heh)



Yep, you get it. Since the very beginning, those 'playmakers' have ran the entire game. I could name dozens, from Perun, to Getsome, to Calrizien, to Kegluas, to Eratani, to Yumyum, to Zeelot, to Detoxx, to Furoar, to Quean, to Kelzaraz, to Fingerz, to Hokushin, to Stunningly, to Venice, and many others. I remember watching Yumyum prep for each cycle, pre-drafting every Twitter batphone, facetracking the highest priority target, for upwards of 24 hours straight. I remember sneaking up on my rogue to pull, and he'd tell me the order of drakes and how far apart so I knew when to hide from flurries.

Meanwhile we had well assembled FTE groups, ideally 2 bards 4 monks, getting pre-targets. Pulls weren't too difficult back then, thanks to clickies. I remember fighting a dirty Vulak at zone-in one time and keeping the train kited the entire time going from 4 way back to trio with just Bladestoppers. I remember Quean rushing to camp to swap out Bladestoppers with me, lol.

Moments like that are what made me love this game. I never hated BDA, TMO, Aftermath, AG, or anyone. I respected their competition. Detoxx and Aikons are probably the two people I respect the most in this game. Aikons is someone I met when he was lvl 59 and unguilded in Sebilis. I sent him a tell saying hey, want to learn how to duo Fungi King? He said "that's not possible" and I said "You'd be amazed what you can accomplish in this game if you drop that mindset." I showed him to pull it on my monk and he caught right on, even respecting my wishes not to share the strat.

(Course, there weren't many 60 shamans with full spell book back then anyways. Torpor was 150k+ or just never sold, guilds kept them, Canni4 was 100k, Malo, Bane, Pox around 30-40k. Even other spells were 10k. Plus you really wanted a shaman with the VP Ensnare spear. Anyways...)

Years later he would tell me that meeting me and hearing that changed his whole outlook on the game. Later, when he joined Aftermath, I was confused. Why not come to Awakened?
"You taught me that having something to overcome is the best part of this game. I'll always be your friend, but I don't want to ride your coattails. I want to beat you."

And he did. Aikons went on to become one of the best players in the game.

Detoxx was brash. We only ever spoke in-game once, and it was him calling me a "f[slur for homosexuals]" for clicking my guise in front of him over and over. When he finally got one from the same event I also got another, I sent him a tell saying grats. He didn't respond.

Aftermath started out very poorly. Awakened was much, much better. For those of us who were in IB/Rampage, Awakened was like shedding all the baggage and ego and stress and finally just being able to have fun. I could stop pretending to give a shit about Warders or server firsts. I could start doing the things I actually wanted to do (Dain rings, Vaniki, NToV, Plane of Mischief, etc). AM wasn't very competitive at first. During my time in the guild we only lost Vulak a few times. They focused on other targets, Kael, Dain, Yelinak, and grew slowly.

They never gave up. Slowly but surely the veterans of Awakened got burnt out, myself included, and AM kept growing, building alliances, mass recruiting. Whereas we didn't actively recruit, you had to know someone to vouch for you, and while the fall of Awakened is a different topic entirely, the point is that Aftermath's refusal to give up, their competitive drive led by Detoxx, was very admirable. He was passionate. If he delivered my pizza, I'd tip him very well. In the end, he won. His time came, because he refused to give up.

Even that guild that cheated, I never hated them. My own guild (IB, TR) famously had some of its prominent members go down for RMT, and I was 'glad' they got banned. They were my friends. It made me sad they chose to cheat, and to steal from us.



And this is what matters. I really hope we don't resort to /random without trying some alternatives first. Test him. Hell, make scripting jumps legal. Since the jump doesn't matter much and you can't viably script entire races, I'd be fine with this. It's not ideal, but it sure as fuck beats /random.

Competition is ALL WE HAVE. Barely anyone gives a shit about the loot, its always been about the competition. (okay, some people do care about the loot) I remember Nilbog telling me back in beta, his worst fear for the game was it becoming dominating by 1 guild or on a rotation. Uthgard chipped in, he would disband that guild. No competition will kill this game very quickly, just like it did in Kunark. Some of you may not realize it, but this game used to peak at 100-150 players primetime when a certain guild was dominating.

Has anyone played The Witcher 3's "Hearts of Stone"? Riot members should. Be careful what you wish for.

Vanq/freedom/am whatever you want to call those same people cheated in fear cheated in pog and cheat all the time by intentionally training any and all guilds next to them. It obviously doesn’t bother them and theres next to no deterrent. Why not also cheat the races and everything else?

[Samoht]

Nobody listening to the other side is maybe part of the problem.

They're not here to listen. They're here to sling mud and receive free pixels. It's what the meta is down to. Can't win ring war? Get ring roll implemented. Can't win TOV? Get bag limits. Can't win Tormax or Dain without cheating? Accuse the other side of cheating. Now those are rolls, too.

It's pathetic that the members go along with it, but I guess I understand why. They've got so much time invested in their DKP that they don't want to feel the loss of abandoning the guild and leaving the DKP behind. It's the sunk cost fallacy.

So they come here and cry cry cry, but when you point out the error in their logic, they turn on you. There's a lot of people who make fun of their incessant whining, but somehow they in turn accuse YOU of crying. Wut lol.

This is some cognitive dissonance from YEARS of drinking Riot koolaid.

The only way to deal with it is to leave the losers to stew in their tears. There's no reasoning with them because they're dumb and brainwashed as I pointed out above.

Vanquish will continue dominating Riot in game, and Riot will just have to settle with welfare pixels and consolation tuna packages.

[eisley]

The only way to deal with it is to leave the losers to stew in their tears. There's no reasoning with them because they're dumb and brainwashed as I pointed out above.

Vanquish will continue dominating Riot in game, and Riot will just have to settle with welfare pixels and consolation tuna packages.

I have to believe there's a better way. I asked Stunningly if he would quit if they changed everything to /random and he said "absolutely, yes."

So, what, all we will have left for competition is Quakes? Quakes are fun, sure, but it's an entirely different experience. It's less about head to head competition and more about smart mobilization and being adaptable. Not to mention they're almost always during the day American time, which isn't ideal for everyone.

Races are worth preserving. Both sides should want them. The devs should want them. Removing NToV races was disastrous. Is this really the game people want?

[Arvan]

They're not here to listen. They're here to sling mud and receive free pixels. It's what the meta is down to. Can't win ring war? Get ring roll implemented. Can't win TOV? Get bag limits. Can't win Tormax or Dain without cheating? Accuse the other side of cheating. Now those are rolls, too.

It's pathetic that the members go along with it, but I guess I understand why. They've got so much time invested in their DKP that they don't want to feel the loss of abandoning the guild and leaving the DKP behind. It's the sunk cost fallacy.

So they come here and cry cry cry, but when you point out the error in their logic, they turn on you. There's a lot of people who make fun of their incessant whining, but somehow they in turn accuse YOU of crying. Wut lol.

This is some cognitive dissonance from YEARS of drinking Riot koolaid.

The only way to deal with it is to leave the losers to stew in their tears. There's no reasoning with them because they're dumb and brainwashed as I pointed out above.

Vanquish will continue dominating Riot in game, and Riot will just have to settle with welfare pixels and consolation tuna packages.

Deflect! Deny! Project! I love your motto

[eisley]

Vanq/freedom/am whatever you want to call those same people cheated in fear cheated in pog and cheat all the time by intentionally training any and all guilds next to them. It obviously doesn’t bother them and theres next to no deterrent. Why not also cheat the races and everything else?

I've raided quite a bit in this game, including with both Riot and Vanquish, and I've never in my life seen either one intentionally train the other. When you've got 200 people in the same area, things turn into a shitshow pretty quick. During a Velk a few months back Riot got the engage and a couple minutes later like the entire zone was trained on us. Possibly the biggest train I've seen in my life, it was impressive. And most incredibly, no one saw it coming. Usually someone is watching, and you'd hear "uh hey guys the entire zone is coming."

Back in the day, the guild who got the engage would just concede in this scenario, since they were the ones to start combat. But there was no way to determine who started that train, and it was almost certainly not intentional. Most trains are accidents or fuckups. I've trained Aftermath on accident before and it's not a good feeling.

[Samoht]

Races are worth preserving. Both sides should want them.

If Riot wanted races, they wouldn't have started scripting them as "proof" that Vanquish was scripting.

This whole thing has been a farce so that their guild can continue to get SOMETHING out of their massive DKP hoard. I'm surprised so many regular members are sticking around to get loot just for the officers who implemented new ridiculous loot requirements that start tomorrow, but a lot have already left to join Vanquish or just chosen to go guildless.

We'll see what tomorrow brings when their new loot rules go into effect.

[eisley]

Deflect! Deny! Project! I love your motto

Wouldn't you agree all sides are guilty of this? There's little civility. That's why I tried to make a measured, thoughtful post. An elf dissertation.

Going down this path is bad for all parties involved. People in other guilds are just people behind a keyboard just like you. They just want to enjoy the game just like you.

Even the reductio ad absurdum solution of legalizing scripting is a vastly superior option to /random in my eyes. There has to be a better way.

[eisley]

We'll see what tomorrow brings when their new loot rules go into effect.

Sorry, can you expand on this? I haven't logged on much the past few months. What are the new loot rules going into effect?

[cd288]

If Riot wanted races, they wouldn't have started scripting them as "proof" that Vanquish was scripting.

This whole thing has been a farce so that their guild can continue to get SOMETHING out of their massive DKP hoard. I'm surprised so many regular members are sticking around to get loot just for the officers who implemented new ridiculous loot requirements that start tomorrow, but a lot have already left to join Vanquish or just chosen to go guildless.

We'll see what tomorrow brings when their new loot rules go into effect.

Pretty sure Riot scripted to bring staff attention onto it to make Vanquish stop scripting. I doubt their goal was to get races turned off; their goal was to have the staff make Vanquish stop cheating. The staff then took the easier route which was just to eliminate races altogether (and I don't blame them, they're volunteers).

Also, that wasn't the only proof. Vanquish had videos up of how to script, including for races lol. They were quickly deleted once they were flagged to the staff.

[Tunabros]

the cheating is so obvious that it's halarious

[Chortles Snortles]

nii saaaaaaan!!!!!!!

[Arvan]

I've raided quite a bit in this game, including with both Riot and Vanquish, and I've never in my life seen either one intentionally train the other. When you've got 200 people in the same area, things turn into a shitshow pretty quick. During a Velk a few months back Riot got the engage and a couple minutes later like the entire zone was trained on us. Possibly the biggest train I've seen in my life, it was impressive. And most incredibly, no one saw it coming. Usually someone is watching, and you'd hear "uh hey guys the entire zone is coming."

Back in the day, the guild who got the engage would just concede in this scenario, since they were the ones to start combat. But there was no way to determine who started that train, and it was almost certainly not intentional. Most trains are accidents or fuckups. I've trained Aftermath on accident before and it's not a good feeling.

I have multiple videos of either necros or monks coming seeing us on top of a ramp, stopping for a second, then coming all the way into our camp and then fding. You can call it unintentional or a lone actor or whatever but it happens a lot. Not sure what else to tell ya.

[hobart]

the point is that Aftermath's refusal to give up, their competitive drive led by Detoxx, was very admirable. He was passionate. If he delivered my pizza, I'd tip him very well.

He'd eat half your pizza on the drive over.

[cd288]

I have multiple videos of either necros or monks coming seeing us on top of a ramp, stopping for a second, then coming all the way into our camp and then fding. You can call it unintentional or a lone actor or whatever but it happens a lot. Not sure what else to tell ya.

Why not submit that to the staff then? They will suspend or ban them

[Nutsax]

Why not submit that to the staff then? They will suspend or ban them

Lol unless you hear the perp shouting in the video "I am going to train watch this guys" it isn't proof, in fact the gagletwats in Vanq will claim their necro got trained.

[cd288]

Lol unless you hear the perp shouting in the video "I am going to train watch this guys" it isn't proof, in fact the gagletwats in Vanq will claim their necro got trained.

That’s not really true. If you have someone run up to you with a train of mobs on them and FD right next to you, the staff will punish them for it. Seen it happen a bunch of times. So if this is happening as much as you claim then go get the video of it and submit it and people will be punished.

Refusing to do that while claiming that you get trained just makes you seem like you’re making shit up, which makes you as BS as vanquish is. Don’t do that, don’t be like vanquish

[Bones]

Some of you may not realize it, but this game used to peak at 100-150 players primetime

https://i.imgur.com/zBdTjxP.jpg?1

[Toxigen]

https://i.imgur.com/bHyDtGe.png

[Samoht]

https://i.imgur.com/bHyDtGe.png

HOW DO YOU DELETE SOMEONE ELSE'S POST

[hobart]

HOW DO YOU DELETE SOMEONE ELSE'S POST

This could be the best comment ever posted here.

[Tunabros]

Nexii is cool and all

but what the fuck

[Chortles Snortles]

totally cool and normal

[Viscere]

No wonder Riot died

[greasemonk]

You fucks are not sophisticated enough to appreciate Nexii's meta.

[Viscere]

Mmkay yeah no thx

[Samoht]

You fucks are not sophisticated enough to appreciate Nexii's meta.

I hope this is satire and not someone white knighting for Nexii... judging by the sig, though, it's almost certainly white knighting.

[Allishia]

Lmao....don't even know what to say...never going to think of FTE the same lol

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/8tMkjkh.jpg

[Ennewi]

love in a time of chlamydia

[unsunghero]

https://i.imgur.com/bHyDtGe.png

[smitho1984]

And they are quite proud of themselves

kekw
This post didnt age well. Watched Vanquish wipe on Vindi at 0% this morning. Then pivot to the slowest Velk kill in history. lol.

[Viscere]

Sorry what?

was busy looting AoW legs