View Full Version : Green 2.0 Hybrid Penalty
eqravenprince
02-10-2022, 03:02 PM
Is there anyone that actually wants the hybrid penalty with Green 2.0?
bobjonesp99
02-10-2022, 03:20 PM
i can tell you for sure the vision of this project has nothing to do with what the community wants. in general people want pet windows in green. in general people want cycle tab targeting. neither of those things are on green because it isnt 'classic' or the vision of classic that the server aims to be. i can say with damn near certainty, the hybrid penalty is definitely something that isnt going to change.
Scalem
02-10-2022, 04:08 PM
You gunna get hybrid penalty and other things you may not like and you will like it or find a different server.
Tunabros
02-10-2022, 04:17 PM
yes
keep p99 as classic as possible
everyday its turning more and more into a custom box (which it is)
Despite being an uber 'keep it classic' type of guy, i was actually first, or one of the first suggesting they remove the penalty from green before it even launched... for me it's base on two factors:
The exp rate on p99 is already infalted and not classic. And all the hybrid exp penalty does is slow down leveling. hence it just seems cmpletely arbitrary to single out hybrids when we are already not playing classic exp.
the other reason is to give it ever so slighty more the feel of original EQ classes demographcs. yes, we we will never go back to only 15% of the server playing bard/enc/necro combined and 75% playing druids/hybrids. but when you literally never even come across a ranger/paladin/sk it really takes away from original experience.
Chortles Snortles
02-10-2022, 05:43 PM
haha no
The exp rate on p99 is already infalted and not classic. And all the hybrid exp penalty does is slow down leveling. hence it just seems cmpletely arbitrary to single out hybrids when we are already not playing classic exp.
the other reason is to give it ever so slighty more the feel of original EQ classes demographcs. yes, we we will never go back to only 15% of the server playing bard/enc/necro combined and 75% playing druids/hybrids. but when you literally never even come across a ranger/paladin/sk it really takes away from original experience.
The penalty isn't arbitrary. It's there to punish classes that have access to multiple skillsets because that (in theory) gives them an advantage. The flaw is that purist classes are too powerful due to poor balance.
As for demographics, it's nonclassic - and it sucks - but the problem isn't penalties at all. It's balance and awareness of imbalance. Awareness can't be changed, so the only way this can be fixed is by reconstructing the classes, because even if they removed the penalty few players would want to play an inferior class.
I wouldn't be adverse to a properly balanced P99, but I don't want anything half-assed. Easy to say, of course. Actually making it balanced and having the majority find it enjoyable is a terrifying endeavor to undertake.
The penalty isn't arbitrary. It's there to punish classes that have access to multiple skillsets because that (in theory) gives them an advantage. The flaw is that purist classes are too powerful due to poor balance.
It's entirely arbitrary to say "its classic" when it comes to throttling hybrid exp yet the actual exp for everyone else is not classic. if you can't understand that, i can't help you but maybe webster's can.
As for demographics, it's nonclassic - and it sucks - but the problem isn't penalties at all. It's balance and awareness of imbalance. Awareness can't be changed, so the only way this can be fixed is by reconstructing the classes, because even if they removed the penalty few players would want to play an inferior class.
i've ran into at least half a dozen warriors/rogues and even a cleric who said they would have prefered to play a hybrid for their first character(just like they did back in the day) on green but decided against it purely because exp pealty. it might be anecdotal evidence but it's better than no evidence.
DeliciousHalflings
02-10-2022, 10:50 PM
Hybrid penalty was there for a reason. Deal with it.
Fammaden
02-10-2022, 11:40 PM
I'd rather get rid of all these stupid "legacy" items, including/especially manastone.
Tunabros
02-10-2022, 11:52 PM
I'd rather get rid of all these stupid "legacy" items, including/especially manastone.
except for guises
guises are cool :D
cd288
02-11-2022, 12:09 AM
The penalty isn't arbitrary. It's there to punish classes that have access to multiple skillsets because that (in theory) gives them an advantage. The flaw is that purist classes are too powerful due to poor balance.
As for demographics, it's nonclassic - and it sucks - but the problem isn't penalties at all. It's balance and awareness of imbalance. Awareness can't be changed, so the only way this can be fixed is by reconstructing the classes, because even if they removed the penalty few players would want to play an inferior class.
I wouldn't be adverse to a properly balanced P99, but I don't want anything half-assed. Easy to say, of course. Actually making it balanced and having the majority find it enjoyable is a terrifying endeavor to undertake.
Except the problem is the devs admitted it was a mistake. They thought hybrids would be much more powerful than other classes as things played out, but that turned out to be incorrect. The only one you could say that it’s correct about is Bard. The devs removed the class penalties when they realized they were intentionally gimping classes that basically got no huge benefit out of being a “hybrid”
cd288
02-11-2022, 12:09 AM
Despite being an uber 'keep it classic' type of guy, i was actually first, or one of the first suggesting they remove the penalty from green before it even launched... for me it's base on two factors:
The exp rate on p99 is already infalted and not classic. And all the hybrid exp penalty does is slow down leveling. hence it just seems cmpletely arbitrary to single out hybrids when we are already not playing classic exp.
the other reason is to give it ever so slighty more the feel of original EQ classes demographcs. yes, we we will never go back to only 15% of the server playing bard/enc/necro combined and 75% playing druids/hybrids. but when you literally never even come across a ranger/paladin/sk it really takes away from original experience.
Can you link to evidence that the exp rate is inflated? Thought it was proven that it’s not
Can you link to evidence that the exp rate is inflated? Thought it was proven that it’s not
Where was it "proven" it's not?
Keebz
02-11-2022, 05:13 AM
Imho, the hybrid penalty isn't bad in Classic. The leveling curve is pretty easy, and the hybrids are pretty good, while Warriors and Rogues kinda suck and Monks are comparatively lackluster. In Kunark, (aka 51-60) the hybrid penalty reaallly starts to drag. Warriors, Rogues, and Monks get their sweet discs, much improved gearing and the exp curve starts to sky rocket. Hybrids get no discs and just can't compensate for the exp pen with their lvl 30 spells.
I'd vote to remove the hybrid exp penalty in Kunark, but not in Classic.
Knowledge
02-11-2022, 09:16 AM
I'd rather get rid of all these stupid "legacy" items, including/especially manastone.
thats how i feel cause /list is only for methhead account sharers.
cd288
02-11-2022, 10:01 AM
Where was it "proven" it's not?
Thought the staff and other contributing players have posted stuff a couple years back when green launched. If you have conflicting evidence that you can post I think everyone would definitely be interested to see that
ReoDobbs
02-11-2022, 10:38 AM
i can tell you for sure the vision of this project has nothing to do with what the community wants. in general people want pet windows in green. in general people want cycle tab targeting. neither of those things are on green because it isnt 'classic' or the vision of classic that the server aims to be. i can say with damn near certainty, the hybrid penalty is definitely something that isnt going to change.
Except they change "classic" stuff when they feel "that wasn't the vision of classic". The server is already become a hybrid, it's only people that bury their head in the sand and pretend it's not.
But, yes, it is the closest option we currently have to "classic"
Scalem
02-11-2022, 12:00 PM
Except they change "classic" stuff when they feel "that wasn't the vision of classic". The server is already become a hybrid, it's only people that bury their head in the sand and pretend it's not.
But, yes, it is the closest option we currently have to "classic"
This server is the closet option to velious locked "classic" content. It is no means the closest server to actually being a classic representation of Everquest in its initial state.
starkind
02-11-2022, 12:19 PM
Hybrids should never have been unnerfed.
cd288
02-11-2022, 02:26 PM
Except they change "classic" stuff when they feel "that wasn't the vision of classic". The server is already become a hybrid, it's only people that bury their head in the sand and pretend it's not.
But, yes, it is the closest option we currently have to "classic"
That’s not really an argument for needing the hybrid penalty though.
Hybrid penalty is literally a mechanic of classic. It doesn’t fall into “vision of classic/general classic experience” that you might change…for example rooted dragons, item recharge changes to keep from being abused, etc.
Toxigen
02-11-2022, 03:08 PM
consider blue
hope this helps
It's entirely arbitrary to say "its classic" when it comes to throttling hybrid exp yet the actual exp for everyone else is not classic. if you can't understand that, i can't help you but maybe webster's can.
it might be anecdotal evidence but it's better than no evidence.
I didn't say it was classic, I explained the probable reasoning behind the mechanic in regards to your argument of it being arbitrary and other things being non-classic to begin with therefor allowing an "anything goes" mindset to balance. The reasoning behind why the penalty is there is not the same as saying "the devs did it so it stays in the game." I use Webster's frequently, perhaps you should try it, as you don't appear to know what 'arbitrary' means. I also mentioned I'm not adverse to rebalancing the game, so you jumping on the "it's classic" grenade seems odd.
Logically speaking purists are more powerful than hybrids therefor more would play them because no one wants to suck. This isn't evidence to begin with, it's merely what's likely. As for anecdotal commentary being evidence of what's to come, such claims would simply cancel each other out. There's always two sides, and as much as I want to play a paladin I don't want to be useless for a long time.
Except the problem is the devs admitted it was a mistake. They thought hybrids would be much more powerful than other classes as things played out, but that turned out to be incorrect.
The devs removed the class penalties when they realized they were intentionally gimping classes that basically got no huge benefit out of being a “hybrid”
Right. I mean I didn't know the dev's official stance on it but it's as much as I thought. I was simply stating the purpose wasn't arbitrary and the removal of the penalty to be of minor consequence because those classes are undesirable. The resulting change being that this is mainly in favor of the overwhelming minority, to the degree that I'd suspect it's primarily solo players. To truly fix the problem the game would need surgery rather than band-aids. The devs might have removed the penalty, but they also went a step further as new expansions came out.
radbeard
02-12-2022, 12:59 PM
The hybrid penalty is awful and getting rid of it would make the game a bit better, also making the game a bit better is explicitly not the goal of a lot of people on these forums. You know the people that want things classic like racing at breakneck speed to camp manastones.
I didn't say...
.
Autism speaks.. in gibberish.
Goldknyght
02-22-2022, 05:54 PM
green 2.0 should just be a fresh server with velious already activated IMO. or at least kunark. do something like the mischief server on live.
wuanahto
02-22-2022, 06:26 PM
Hybrid penalty was there for a reason. Deal with it.
then why did they remove it?
Bardp1999
02-22-2022, 08:07 PM
then why did they remove it?
because of cry babies like you
Old_PVP
02-22-2022, 08:48 PM
consider red
hope this helps
fixed. Moving to resolved, pending update.
starkind
02-22-2022, 10:08 PM
then why did they remove it?
A desire for more subscribers, money, and popularity. Peer pressure. Not a good reason.
eqravenprince
02-23-2022, 09:44 AM
A desire for more subscribers, money, and popularity. Peer pressure. Not a good reason.
Remind me not to hire you for my business lol.
starkind
02-23-2022, 11:57 AM
Remind me not to hire you for my business lol.
:p
wuanahto
02-23-2022, 01:05 PM
A desire for more subscribers, money, and popularity. Peer pressure. Not a good reason.
because of cry babies like you
So nevermind the inabilty to tank targets that matter
Nevermind a slightly better ability to solo than a warrior while forgetting dru/wiz/mag/nec/enc/etc are a thing
nevermind way lower damage in all scenarios
yea tho
Ransurian
02-23-2022, 11:51 PM
So nevermind the inabilty to tank targets that matter
Nevermind a slightly better ability to solo than a warrior while forgetting dru/wiz/mag/nec/enc/etc are a thing
nevermind way lower damage in all scenarios
yea tho
Warrior kind of sucks for a good fraction of the server's life cycle, though. They're basically useless prior to Kunark, and they're still not all that great in the first expansion. I hardly ever saw warriors tanking anything during Green's classic era while I was in Kingdom... at any given fight, it was just hybrid MTs spamming snap aggro abilities on pretty much everything. I ended up getting bitter over choosing warrior and eventually quit playing the game, telling myself I might come back when things are better for us much later on in the server's life cycle.
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