Ready to get good?

[azxten]

I dedicate this effort to cd288. Without his constant crying about my efforts to nerf Enchanter I might have lost motivation. He almost threw me when he claimed the client code wouldn't work well with modified server code but Nilbog confirmed that was bullshit.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3395356

You all ready to get good?

A level 1 Enchanter casting a level 1 spell after being hit 1 time has a 29% success rate on EQEmu code compared to 10% on proposed classic code.
A level 20 Enchanter casting a level 20 spell after being hit 15 or more times has a 26% success rate on EQEmu code compared to .00000004% on proposed classic code.
A level 50 Enchanter casting a level 50 spell after being hit 15 or more times has a 64% success rate on EQEmu code compared to 2% on proposed classic code.

Mmmmm.. I can't wait bros. See you in game once it goes live.

https://i.imgur.com/apTNBR3.png

[Jibartik]

I couldn't understand the post and clicked the link hoping it would be a video that I could understand and it was a post 10x bigger than this post that read exactly the same.

[azxten]

I couldn't understand the post and clicked the link hoping it would be a video that I could understand and it was a post 10x bigger than this post that read exactly the same.

lol...

tl;dr Channeling is provably classically overpowered on P99 and I have made it classic including a code change patch and in game testing. This includes changing from 1 channeling roll per cast to a channeling roll for every time you get attacked during the cast and a completely reworked channeling formula that will make each of those rolls significantly less likely to succeed compared to today.

All of this is proven via archived posts from Rashere, EQ Lead Developer, and a decompile of the EQ Mac client by an EQEmu developer which confirms the same functionality that Rashere outlined.

I assume since this is irrefutably proven by these two things and I have done all the work to change the EQEmu code we'll be getting classic channeling soon. This means the game is about to be about 1000X more difficult than it is today.

It also means I will play again during the next Green launch and it will be glorious when no one can even get to level 20 without rage quitting.

[Whale biologist]

Bristlebane smiles on your efforts 🖤

[unsunghero]

um, I dunno about other enchanters but I can't facetank hits at level 51 anyway. Even if I don't get interrupted, my rune will likely fall off, and re-applying the rune costs both time and mana

Not to mention high level spells have long as balls cast times. I always do a color shift in between swings -> gcd reset -> either root or mez depending on whether it's melee or caster -> then either back up and cast or gcd reset after mez and cast

who TF sits and channels through multiple mob hits at high level? Must have crazy good gear

[azxten]

um, I dunno about other enchanters but I can't facetank hits at level 51 anyway. Even if I don't get interrupted, my rune will likely fall off, and re-applying the rune costs both time and mana

Not to mention high level spells have long as balls cast times. I always do a color shift in between swings -> gcd reset -> either root or mez depending on whether it's melee or caster -> then either back up and cast or gcd reset after mez and cast

who TF sits and channels through multiple mob hits at high level? Must have crazy good gear

For me it's about the journey to high level. I always said Enchanter was mostly classic at high levels but too many bad players are able to get there too easily without the pain and heart ache of the low level Enchanter grind. In any case I don't really care about Enchanters I just want more difficulty and classic atmosphere. This should provide that but mainly during a new server launch where it will be much more challenging to level than it was on Green if this goes live. It will be an entirely new meta and my hope is that it will prove me right that this will also fix the raid scene because most people simply couldn't reach max level in time to raid. It will change the leveling/progression curve and allow for those who are actually good at the game to have a less congested raid experience.

[Castle2.0]

lol...

tl;dr Channeling is provably classically overpowered on P99 and I have made it classic including a code change patch and in game testing. This includes changing from 1 channeling roll per cast to a channeling roll for every time you get attacked during the cast and a completely reworked channeling formula that will make each of those rolls significantly less likely to succeed compared to today.

All of this is proven via archived posts from Rashere, EQ Lead Developer, and a decompile of the EQ Mac client by an EQEmu developer which confirms the same functionality that Rashere outlined.

I assume since this is irrefutably proven by these two things and I have done all the work to change the EQEmu code we'll be getting classic channeling soon. This means the game is about to be about 1000X more difficult than it is today.

It also means I will play again during the next Green launch and it will be glorious when no one can even get to level 20 without rage quitting.

Haha /pet attack.. nuke from range. #EasyMageLife

[Whale biologist]

um, I dunno about other enchanters but I can't facetank hits at level 51 anyway. Even if I don't get interrupted, my rune will likely fall off, and re-applying the rune costs both time and mana

Not to mention high level spells have long as balls cast times. I always do a color shift in between swings -> gcd reset -> either root or mez depending on whether it's melee or caster -> then either back up and cast or gcd reset after mez and cast

who TF sits and channels through multiple mob hits at high level? Must have crazy good gear

Hopefully OP fixes caster defense next #squishy

[unsunghero]

For me it's about the journey to high level. I always said Enchanter was mostly classic at high levels but too many bad players are able to get there too easily without the pain and heart ache of the low level Enchanter grind. In any case I don't really care about Enchanters I just want more difficulty and classic atmosphere. This should provide that but mainly during a new server launch where it will be much more challenging to level than it was on Green if this goes live. It will be an entirely new meta and my hope is that it will prove me right that this will also fix the raid scene because most people simply couldn't reach max level in time to raid. It will change the leveling/progression curve and allow for those who are actually good at the game to have a less congested raid experience.

Ya, I have no max level or raid experience so won't try to comment on something I know nothing about

I leveled very slowly, much slower than most, so my earliest levels are hazy, but yeah I guess I did possibly abuse channeling or something, but I had no frame of reference

Really I get where you are coming from in terms of encouraging grouping, but not sure if it would have the desired effect (but maybe it would). I think that someone that insists on soloing does it due to either the time that they play, having to afk, basically some RL reason. What this change would do I predict would be to pull those people out of solo'ing dungeons and force them to solo maybe more slowly outside in a controlled environment

Theoretically, an enchanter can exclusively use the animation pet to kill greens and blues with slow probably all the way to lev 55+ (not sure how the last rank of pet fares because I don't have it, but the 49 pet can still kill blues with slow on). And that would remain a zero risk method (maybe pathers but all you need to do is mez + calm them before they engage, problem solved). I think even charm solo'ing singles outside would remain a very low or no risk method to solo from 1 to max level for chanters

So it would definitely alter their solo playstyle, would it force them to group? Naw, not if they had a strong reason for not wanting to. Just my .02, might be wrong

[Swish]

It will be an entirely new meta and my hope is that it will prove me right that this will also fix the raid scene because most people simply couldn't reach max level in time to raid. It will change the leveling/progression curve and allow for those who are actually good at the game to have a less congested raid experience.

You can say jobless, it's okay.

[Croco]

p99 isn't classic, seek help OP

[Danth]

This is pretty useful news, don't see why it should be in the rants forum. P99's channeling has been 'placeholder' for so long I imagine a lot of folks have forgotten what the original game was like for fresh casters.

Where'd you source the new values from?

Danth

[azxten]

This is pretty useful news, don't see why it should be in the rants forum. P99's channeling has been 'placeholder' for so long I imagine a lot of folks have forgotten what the original game was like for fresh casters.

Where'd you source the new values from?

Danth

The new values used are from a decompile of the EQ Mac client done by an EQEmu dev and then provided to TAKP then sent to Dolalin and then to me. The fit between that decompiled methodology and Resere (EQ Lead Dev) posts is almost exactly the same.

I'm just posting it here to flame cd288 or whatever his name is. Guy has haunted me anywhere I post trying to discredit the idea that Enchanters should be nerfed. There is a large list of provably unclassic Enchanter things that should be nerfed but I set those aside to focus on channeling as I feel it will be the biggest nerf to Enchanter and beyond and therefore the most important.

[Danth]

Fairly impressive team effort there, thanks for the work. I remember the pain of trying to cast spells at low levels in the original game. It'll be interesting to see this in action assuming the P99 admins decide to utilize it. Even remembering "how it was" I expect I'll need a bit of time to adjust after 12 years of P1999.

Danth

[realsubtle]

Idk so enchanter is going to be gimped and isnt going to be fun anymore. Why would anyone want to level a gimped class? Who's going to fill in the void that the now-useless enchanter will leave behind?

[slard271]

I laud the premise of increased difficulty because that was one of my most cherished (and rage driven) memories of classic EQ. On p99 though where virtually nothing is classic, caster channeling capability isn't exactly OP when you look at elephants in the room like melee. I don't see how nerfing casters pre-Luclin when they _finally_ get some love is the most appropriate course. I'm not necessarily saying anything should be nerfed (except mages and their easy af epic) but casters aren't really it. Yes, I get it, insert enc OP af meme, I've got one of those, too. If you want more difficulty, why not just make the mobs an order of magnitude more unclassically difficult than they already are? Maybe some sort of blood moon event where mobs will just utterly rek you.

[azxten]

I laud the premise of increased difficulty because that was one of my most cherished (and rage driven) memories of classic EQ. On p99 though where virtually nothing is classic, caster channeling capability isn't exactly OP when you look at elephants in the room like melee. I don't see how nerfing casters pre-Luclin when they _finally_ get some love is the most appropriate course. I'm not necessarily saying anything should be nerfed (except mages and their easy af epic) but casters aren't really it. Yes, I get it, insert enc OP af meme, I've got one of those, too. If you want more difficulty, why not just make the mobs an order of magnitude more unclassically difficult than they already are? Maybe some sort of blood moon event where mobs will just utterly rek you.

Because that wouldn't be classic. My personal philosophy is that the reason a lot of things are not classic and being struggled with, like raiding, is because of a lack of effort to fix missing classic mechanics like channeling.

I'm pretty sure evidence exists that item recharging isn't supposed to work like it does here. I saw it in a thread before but the bug thread is just ignored and then people wonder why we have to nerf items for raiding or whatever. Too many overpowered non-classic mechanics are being ignored and instead we're introducing non-classic mechanics intentionally to try to account for the players being too powerful.

[azxten]

In other words make the game harder for the player in a classic sense and then the justification exists to make mobs more like classic as well. No one is going to accept even easier mobs, raids, etc if players are left as unclassically overpowered as they currently are.

[Rader]

Theoretically, an enchanter can exclusively use the animation pet to kill greens and blues with slow probably all the way to lev 55+ (not sure how the last rank of pet fares because I don't have it, but the 49 pet can still kill blues with slow on). And that would remain a zero risk method (maybe pathers but all you need to do is mez + calm them before they engage, problem solved). I think even charm solo'ing singles outside would remain a very low or no risk method to solo from 1 to max level for chanters



I do quite fine with an animation pet, have rune up, let it hit me once while I cast fear, and nuke and dot. At high levels. Also have j boots incase resists cause a thing.

And I solo.

Just because "everyone says you must charm" doesn't mean you have to charm.

[Croco]

In other words make the game harder for the player in a classic sense and then the justification exists to make mobs more like classic as well. No one is going to accept even easier mobs, raids, etc if players are left as unclassically overpowered as they currently are.

Next you can fix sleepers tomb since Nilbog continues to ignore the in era evidence that it's wildly not classic.

[realsubtle]

No dude like uhhh theyll implement my largely conjectural junk data and nerf enchanter and then itll somehow be balanced because theyll go in and weaken every mob to accomodate for it. Then ill get to chase the entirely imaginary high of "a more hardcore experience" for one day longer.

[realsubtle]

Context? What is context? Just implement this crap i found from deconstructing a macintosh computer or whatever methodologically questionable nonsense i did. Then all theyll have to do is remove mob overtuning, increase the server population ninefold, and undo archaic group AE nerfing abilities and things will be classic again, after only a short year or so of being utterly broken and unplayable. Im doing this to make things more "social" btw, even though i am doing this in bad faith to a game that i admittedly am finally bored with.

[realsubtle]

Hey devs can you like uhhh put 9000 hours of coding work in implementing totally unbalanced game-breaking changes so that i can feel more classic? im afraid that i may have to play another game, but i want to make sure the game is totally dysfunctional and wonky by the time i leave.

[Grumph]

...it will be glorious when no one can even get to level 20 without rage quitting.



Lol, it totally will

[realsubtle]

I don't actually think it will. I think that would just make the game worse.

[ArbiterBlixen]

Does this make my FSI mostly worthless on my shaman?

[Jibartik]

Idk so enchanter is going to be gimped and isnt going to be fun anymore. Why would anyone want to level a gimped class? Who's going to fill in the void that the now-useless enchanter will leave behind?

enc wont be gimped they will just pbaoe again before mezing and get right back to biznez

[ArbiterBlixen]

Is this an ench thing, or will it affect all channelers?

[azxten]

I don't actually think it will. I think that would just make the game worse.

I remember when RnF had good trolls. You try too hard.

[Whale biologist]

Does this make my FSI mostly worthless on my shaman?

Inshallah

[unsunghero]

Is this an ench thing, or will it affect all channelers?

Theoretically all, and yes shaman would struggle, since seeing them play at a high level, they channel through swings with torpor pumping often. Luckily against singles they’d most likely have their max slow up, so the swings won’t be coming that fast

And Enc as well against singles could just pbaoe. However that would only work against singles. Against multiple mobs enc would have to sit and mem a second stun before color shift fades, fire that off, then attempt to rotate stuns while twisting in either mez’s, roots, or aoe mez

Most chanters don’t keep 2 stuns on their bar, but I imagine ones that are used from the danger of multiple high level adds coming at once are also used to having to stun, sit and mem another stun, stand and use the 2nd stun, etc

The other casters and priests would get wrecked lol

[unsunghero]

After analyzing in my head a bit more, I think skilled enchanters will actually be one of the better-off classes if this change was implemented. I think if anything you would see people rolling more chanters and a LOT more necro's

Let's consider a scenario where 3 mobs jump a player. Maybe he was fighting one and 2 unexpected adds came:

- Enchanter can rotate stuns while twisting mez/root/aoe mez to stabilize the situation

- Shaman is fucked, dead. Don't shaman get a FD clicky? Maybe they could use that. But otherwise they dead

- Druid is fucked, dead (?? I don't follow druids all that well, correct me if I'm wrong on that)

- Wizard lol, dead

- Necro can just FD, they'd be fine

- Mage, dead, but was probably dead anyway before the change. Maybe his pet can hold them off long enough to gate?

- Cleric, I'm assuming dead but I have no idea, never followed clerics much

So expect to see shitloads of necros and maybe a bit more chanters, much fewer shaman/druids especially would be my guess

[azxten]

After analyzing in my head a bit more, I think skilled enchanters will actually be one of the better-off classes if this change was implemented. I think if anything you would see people rolling more chanters and a LOT more necro's

Let's consider a scenario where 3 mobs jump a player. Maybe he was fighting one and 2 unexpected adds came:

- Enchanter can rotate stuns while twisting mez/root/aoe mez to stabilize the situation

- Shaman is fucked, dead. Don't shaman get a FD clicky? Maybe they could use that. But otherwise they dead

- Druid is fucked, dead (?? I don't follow druids all that well, correct me if I'm wrong on that)

- Wizard lol, dead

- Necro can just FD, they'd be fine

- Mage, dead, but was probably dead anyway before the change. Maybe his pet can hold them off long enough to gate?

- Cleric, I'm assuming dead but I have no idea, never followed clerics much

So expect to see shitloads of necros and maybe a bit more chanters, much fewer shaman/druids especially would be my guess

My expectation is this increases the value of Warriors, lowers that of Paladin/SK but marginally. It is a frequent occurrence that Pals/SKs cast stun/disease cloud while already being attacked to pull aggro off others. It would probably cause a mild to moderate decrease in SK feign effectiveness.

Enchanters will be impacted in the same way all casters will be which is that they will be to cast between hits to regain control. This involves syncing mob attacks which involves time that sometimes isn't available. In your example if you're fighting 1 and get 2 adds, at what time did the 2 adds start attacking? You can step back in order to get all the mobs to "pack up" and reach you at the same time so their melee hits are in sync.

Clickable items would become much more valuable. Heals, runes, roots, etc all increase in value for any caster and possibly tanks as well if they want to be able to save group casters. This may actually add pressure to clicky camps and make it more difficult to players to maintain charged clickies. If you're grouped and used a click to save your group member and then a raid mob pops, what do you do? Can raiders rely on farming these items if casual Enchanter/Cleric/Etc groupers/soloers also want those items?

In general though yes everything gets more difficult. People think Enchanter will be fine but I doubt it. Enchanter has the lowest HP and while casting rune is fine I think they'll fine they will be casting a lot more runes and burning a lot more plat given the lower success rates and that you still get interrupted through rune.I bet most Enchanters over estimate how well they're casting AE stun without channeling and are relying a lot more on channeling through at least a couple hits.

Druid in a way gains power in outdoor zones because of their run speed buff. Same for Shaman. Being able to run away and use distance to cast instead of relying on channeling is a big benefit. This will also make JBoots a much more important item for any caster who wants to solo. Indoor soloing will mostly come to an end as it should be. There is actually an Afterlife post on Charm which specifically discusses how Enchanters didn't really charm in dungeons until Velious when the zone size in Velious allowed for running mobs around as if you were outdoors. Shaman potions increase in value.

The inability for casters to solo in dungeons should massively slow down the rate of item drops. It won't be like Green where I saw solo level 30 Enchanters farming Kindle in SolA, etc. All of that goes away and it effects everyone. Less items to go around for both casters and melee which also increases difficulty. Items will be obtained by groups not solo farmers and if someone is high enough level to solo farm a dungeon they're probably grouped in a higher level dungeon trying to get items for themselves. Removing the ability to get EXP and items at the same time is huge to increasing difficulty. You're either getting exp, grouped getting exp and a chance at an item, or not getting exp and camping a trivial to get item for your character.

I really do think people underestimate how such a change will completely change the meta of P99. It will have less of an effect on Green/Blue today because people have already farmed up all the items, they have 10 alts, power levelers, etc. It's the next server launch when I expect to see something much closer to live classic where players rely on each other more and things become a lot more difficult. Dungeons become challenging group content again not Enchanter solo exp/farm spots.

Necro probably would be the new top meta class because they would be pretty much the only class that can get exp and farm items while solo in dungeons. The flip side is Necro doesn't add much to a group like Enchanter does so in a way they're a more balanced top class as their power doesn't translate to carrying groups and raids like we see with the mass Enchanter numbers.

[JDFriend99]

Did anyone really care about a lvl 1 enchanter. Jesus cry later at lvl 42-47 resists ffs. hehe

[azxten]

Did anyone really care about a lvl 1 enchanter. Jesus cry later at lvl 42-47 resists ffs. hehe

I care because I see the big picture of how making low levels easier damages the high level experience. There shouldn't be 500 people at max level waiting for raid mobs to pop. There is a reason this didn't happen in classic and no it's not "muh game knowledge."

Like I just posted, allowing Enchanters to burn through levels easily while farming dungeons means they're racking up items that only groups should be able to obtain. Allowing Enchanters an easy time from level 1 means a lot more Enchanters than would otherwise exist. Enchanter was fucking brutal at low levels. It was almost impossible to solo and grouping meant you died repeatedly due to others mistakes or just bad luck. There is a reason it was the least played class not just because "muh game knowledge."

Notice how many people have already said, oh I don't need channeling, I have my animation to solo instead! Guess what? That is another bug that has been proven on P99. Your animation should have about half the HP it currently does and gets smoked by even blue mobs in a few seconds. It's not an equivalent tank to mage/necro pets like it is on P99.

Enchanters can't effectively solo until they get Jboots or if they have enough plat to buy SoW potions and then it's only outdoors. Just doesn't happen otherwise. They don't solo in dungeons. Their animation is a joke and doesn't solo blues on its own like happens on P99. They are a group based class that gets shit on repeatedly.

This also ties into the Mez bug which is that Mez shouldn't apply mem blur on recast. Mez has to break first and be recast for the mem blur component to reapply. Remember Enchanters having massive aggro in groups and crying about it and dying? This is why that doesn't happen on P99. You just spam mez, oh wait, let me remez before you break, let me remez this mob I just tashed, slowed, etc, blah blah. Didn't happen that way in classic you ate all the aggro accumulating on a mezzed mob. In fact the data I found even showed the mem blur was a random chance to blur anyone on the aggro list. You might even make things worse for yourself.

Current Enchanter is basically the root of why P99 isn't classic. No one wants to admit it but if you consider channeling, animation HP, and this mez bug you're 90% of the way there. Enchanter doesn't just carry themselves either. They farm items, they carry groups, and they trivialize raid content with charms. Most of that shouldn't be possible and the few things that are like charmed planar mobs should only involve a tiny number of Enchanters who had the balls to face a terrifying leveling experience to get there. Not casual newbs just easily being master soloers, groupers, and raiders forming an army of charmed pets and solo dungeon farmers ravaging all content.

Too many people like to ignore the low levels and focus on high level things being ignorant of how that low level experience changes the high level landscape. These changes would actually make things better because there should be a much lower high level population and we might actually see raid mobs that don't get perma wiped within a week of each expansion coming out by armies of farmed up alts, charmed pets, and piles upon piles of solo farmed dungeon items.

The nerfed clickies, rooted dragons, lawyer questing, etc would all go away if we DID care about level 1 Enchanters and making their life as difficult as it was on live and Enchanter is just the best example. Everyone's life should be more difficult as it was in classic. The "muh game knowledge" excuse is old and tired given the number of proven bugs that would destroy the current ease of P99. It is easier with the existing game knowledge, we don't need it even easier by letting Enchanters casually solo dungeons to level 50 abusing known bugs and then wonder about their power once they get there.

[unsunghero]

Good recommendation if the change was ever implemented to sync up melee swings. I don’t remember having to do that in vanilla EQ but then again I was just a scrub casual like I am on P99. So I really don’t have a lot of vanilla EQ memory

Color shift casts fast but yea in theory could possibly be interrupted by 3 mobs’ staggered swings through a rune. The solution could be to start with the fastest casting stun, but I don’t know if that will actually buy enough time to sit and memorize color shift + stand and fire it off, even using the first spell gem slot for the swap. Maybe it would, hadn’t tried, I just start with color shift typically. There is another solution though, keep both stuns on your bar always. This would mean possibly having to lose something crucial and would definitely mean having to do even more swaps with your remaining spell gems, but it could be done

I dunno though, I don’t mind a challenge so I could try it as a char lifelong solo’er. Although if it was too difficult or too much of a hassle I’d probably just join the bandwagon and re-roll necro ;)

[Danth]

My expectation is this increases...

If you make it like the original game was:

Doesn't affect paladin/SK/Ranger much. Most their spells cast fast and they cast a lot of low level spells (ie, using level 9 flash of light at 60). SK feigning off large packs gets harder, one of the reasons monks were favored for raid zone pulling in-era.

Druid and cleric are hardly affected since they usually solo out of melee range anyhow. Fast-cast roots gain their value back compared to their near-worthless state on P1999.

Shaman gets a bit harder, but Shamans could already solo West Wastes dragons in-era so if they can't after change, that's a pretty good litmus test that it's overdone. Dungeon solo via means like willingly pulling 4- packs and casually rooting them all one by one gets a lot tougher.

Enchanters are generally more hesitant to haste and arm their pets due to the increased number of hits it creates.

Necromancers laugh at everyone and continue doing what they do.

That's from a high level perspective. At low levels, like teens, pretty much nobody wanted to cast spells while being attacked unless they could time it between mob swings (like flash of light, which casts fast).

Danth

[realsubtle]

"I want less people to play a game that ive admitted im bored of, how can i use book-length pseudointellectual arguments to justify this?"

I mean youre right that this will change the high-end meta. Itll shut out existing possibilities for smaller guilds and groups while favoring the largest guilds that can field the most bodies. Itll favor people willing to shell out for powerlevelling.

I think you have a fantasy that smaller groups of high-level players will come up with ingenious solutions that let them navigate the absurd new meta. But in reality, there are no ingenious workaround solutions for some problems, "moar bodies" is the only workaround, and this will just lead to more cheesing and more consolidation. It will be the most antisocial thing imaginable as people quickly lose interest in a server with a much lower population than Classic. It might literally kill P99, and it will certainly make it less of a creative problem-solving experience by far.

Again, I genuinely think that, as you've stated, you're bored with the game and aren't really doing this for any good faith reasons. But if you somehow are, i hope you exercise some critical thinking--not just gaudy, context-free number crunching, but genuine critical thinking, and consider how the ecosystem balance that P99 exists in are fundamentally different than classic, due to lower population to name only one thing. When was the last time you tried, as a non-professional player, to help lead a mid-sized guild full of people of varying skill level and equipment to success in a raid? I did that last night. I can tell you right now that if we were arbitrarily nerfed with the nebulous promise that MAYBE content will SOMEDAY get easier, what we did would have been impossible, and that everyone's patience would have been long since depleted because the only guilds left that could do anything would be the ones already incumbent with power and game experience.

Honestly, i wish i was trolling. Its rather embarrassing to be the only one in this discussion who is being sincere and advocating for the actual people who play the game. But here i am, being sincere while talking to a big fat concern-trolling ret--a big fat concern trolling retiree, ahem.

Go join a small guild or go play another game.

[azxten]

"I want less people to play a game that ive admitted im bored of, how can i use book-length pseudointellectual arguments to justify this?"

No, I want more people to play, and I want to cater to different players. Your post itself is an example of the P99 community being hyper focused on raiding. Raiding isn't the goal for some players and I think the game should be more difficult to that everyone doesn't end up max level so fast in order to enjoy the other aspects of the game instead.

[realsubtle]

A followup, since I'd hate to leave the discussion off on the note where I called you a, uh, retiree.

"Classic, classic" Yes, Classic was a good template. It was also a marketed product intended to maximize arbitrarily the server populations--easy to do given the novelty of the game at the time and the complete lack of competitors--and maximize the amount of time people maintained their subscriptions. The XPing curves and raid population requirements weren't meant as a test of one's honor or skill or whatever, they were meant to maximize profit.

So half of Classic was a collection of brilliant game-development insights, and half of it was a Skinner-box monetization model that no longer applies now that other companies have developed even more ruthlessly streamlined models.

This is similar to how NES games or arcade games are loaded with artificial difficulty, because the player must feel like they "got their money's worth" out of the cartridge by the cartridge playtime being artificially inflated by non-skill-related factors, or because the player must keep putting quarters into the machine to win. And the strategies for beating games that are "Nintendo hard" are never creative enterprises, they are just exercises in the 'cheesing' that you proclaim so vehemently to oppose.

So the idea of exactly reproducing Classic remains as arbitrary, meaningless, impossible, and unrelated to skill as it was before, and so too are your criticisms or proposed changes meaningless. Everyone who has poured effort into P99 has been working on adapting classic. Adapting, that's the word: changing things so they work for a smaller audience and the resultant smaller group sizes. Considering some of the excellent groups I have had as Enchanter, this must have been accomplished with great efficiency, and you being bored with it is definitely a "you" problem.

[azxten]

Also P99 has a lower population than live but I guarantee you it has a higher max level population than live ever did for any of the given expansions. I've been here since population online was about 100 and things have been just fine and in fact were more enjoyable then than todays max level power leveling clicky abuse rooted dragon guild UN cluster fuck where newbs like you are mad you can't raid easily when in reality if you want a classic EQ experience you shouldn't even be raiding in the first place. Wahh wahh, I want easy pixels, that's you. EQ isn't WoW but P99 is sure looking more like WoW than EQ and that includes the crybaby unskilled I deserve raid pixels after being carried to max level player base.

[unsunghero]

Ya, I figured it out

Keep color flux and color shift on your bar permanently anywhere you think you could have adds. The obvious sacrifice would be ToT unless you still wanted/needed the mana from caster mobs. If you wanted to keep ToT then swap your slow back and forth with either tash or root. Berserker line has a cd so you won’t want to be swapping that, mez you would probably want permanently but could be swapped if not…gate is something I’m assuming most chanters choose to mem (I know I do, not worth keeping gate on your bar, stabilize the situation then mem gate and jet if in a jam, ez). Nukes you never keep on your bar, at least I don’t

So bar setup would be something like:

1 slow/root swap slot
2 color flux
3 color shift
4 mez
5 tash
6 charm
7 ToT
8 bez tune


Solved

[azxten]

Considering some of the excellent groups I have had as Enchanter

Spotted your real concern. Maybe consider that I having played here for 10 years might know a bit more than you about the problems with P99 beyond "my" problem as a "retiree." In a real sense none of this matters because Nilbog and Rogean have always treated this as their project and server and it's become obvious they favor certain things beyond simply classic mechanics. I will continue to make the argument that P99 would be more enjoyable for the majority of players if raiding and max level stopped being the focus. Even if Enchanters like you who admittedly can't raid well even with the most unclassically overpowered class are upset by the idea that you don't belong there. Ultimately, I feel players would be happier if there was a sense of achievement in this MMO no matter how they might kick and scream about classic difficulty that brings that sense of achievement.

[unsunghero]

We correction, gate choose *NOT to mem

And last gem I meant berzerk line rune

[azxten]

Ya, I figured it out

Keep color flux and color shift on your bar permanently anywhere you think you could have adds. The obvious sacrifice would be ToT unless you still wanted/needed the mana from caster mobs. If you wanted to keep ToT then swap your slow back and forth with either tash or root. Berserker line has a cd so you won’t want to be swapping that, mez you would probably want permanently but could be swapped if not…gate is something I’m assuming most chanters choose to mem (I know I do, not worth keeping gate on your bar, stabilize the situation then mem gate and jet if in a jam, ez). Nukes you never keep on your bar, at least I don’t

So bar setup would be something like:

1 slow/root swap slot
2 color flux
3 color shift
4 mez
5 tash
6 charm
7 ToT
8 bez tune


Solved

I'm seriously going to laugh if this goes live and all the Enchanters who proclaim themselves immune and maybe even gaining power from classic channeling get hit in the face by reality.

[realsubtle]

Bro, more people are not going to want to play the game if you add artificial difficulty to lower-levels and they have no one to group with because, as you gleefully state, everyone has "rage quit" because they realize they're wasting their time. Everyone at lower levels would need to get really good at soloing, as a matter of fact, because they'd have even less people to play with.

Like I'm seriously grappling with this. How is this not obvious. Why would i care so much if i hadnt spent six months slowly making my way through a balance of grouping and solo situations. I've had fun and memorable groups or solo encounters through just about every zone in the game at thos point and most of my time is spent helping lowbies come up in the game, find good spots to party, and come up in the game themselves. I don't think there's anything about this game that's "too easy" for them, and im proud of what i accomplish and what they accomplish every day, and I think it's obnoxious for you to spit on that and then tell me its because you want people to appreciate the low-level content more.

I'm being too silly because of my passion now. I'm seriously done. Whatever happens in the game is beyond my control anyway, the devs get to decide that, I'll just keep playing and hoping the balance is preserved somehow.

[unsunghero]

I'm seriously going to laugh if this goes live and all the Enchanters who proclaim themselves immune and maybe even gaining power from classic channeling get hit in the face by reality.

Cast time on color flux is 1 second. If that gets interrupted multiple times then you had enough mobs on you to where you should have died anyway

I could easily get a color flux off with 3 mobs hitting me, even with staggered swings

Any trains larger than that I really don’t mind dying to as a solo’er anyway

[Danth]

...I think the game should be more difficult to that everyone doesn't end up max level so fast in order to enjoy the other aspects of the game instead.

Er, there IS stuff to do at level cap besides raid. Yeah, I know half the community here forgets that in their pursuit of pixels, but there is, I promise. Not that this has anything to do with codebase improvements.

----------------------------------

My own concern, if I have one, is that of accuracy: I remember the efforts towards implementing the yellow bar which were so overwrought that the entire system was scrapped and forgotten. I look at the 'classic night' fix, which is a roundabout shader hack and only pseudo-classic with some advantages and some disadvantages. As much as I like properly dark nights, I can't help but notice the faults, too. It took them 3 or 4 tries before they finally got AC working decently (or at all!), and even then it isn't 100% classic yet. Starting from a 2002 era macintosh client is useful, but I don't trust it as the sole basis because a) it's out of era, b) it might not be identical to the PC client, and c) there could be unknown modifiers on the host side. That was why I asked earlier about where your values were sourced from--was curious as to how you addressed those potential problems. I've been trying to research lull spell tuning for over a decade and my own efforts keep running into a brick wall because apparently the "great lull nerf" was host-side and with no access to the original host I can't prove host values. We're archaeologists in our own way, trying to rebuild the dinosaur from a femur and a couple of vertebrae.

Danth

[unsunghero]

I can’t speak for the harder late game dungeons, but if you are solo’ing an empty dungeon then any trains/adds are your own poor planning anyway

The first step is learning and mapping out where the pathers are and giving them a pacify or calm before attempting to break a room. Then just don’t be stupid and keep sitting as they run by, even down the same hallway as you

Now stun immune mobs and trains by other people and yea you super fucked

[realsubtle]

Druid main btw LOL.

[loramin]

https://i.imgur.com/oVG43Je.gif

[cd288]

This is weird considering I never disagreed that channeling wasn’t classic on P99. I was fully supportive of fixing it if it was possible to do which some old devs and stuff had said in the past that it wasn’t but hey if they were able to fix it then great.

What I disagreed with you on was other aspects of Enchanter charm mechanics where you had no evidence besides conflicting forum posts from 20 years ago.

[Jibartik]

more people are not going to want to play the game if you add artificial difficulty to lower-levels and they have no one to group with because

XVoCiLzosxg

:o

[cd288]

No, I want more people to play, and I want to cater to different players. Your post itself is an example of the P99 community being hyper focused on raiding. Raiding isn't the goal for some players and I think the game should be more difficult to that everyone doesn't end up max level so fast in order to enjoy the other aspects of the game instead.

Also, your line of thinking is so weird. You think channeling is going to mean that people won’t get to max level quickly and that’s why it’s so too heavy currently? Lol what???

There are so many max level characters because this is the o my classic server out there and therefore attracts all the hardcore neckbeard grinders. The amount of max level characters isn’t going to go away in the future just because there was a chan to channeling lol.

[Jibartik]

fight fight fight

[unsunghero]

Ok this is fun to theorycraft

Really assuming you know the dungeon and where the pathers are, then there’s only 2 situations that should ever threaten you

1. Charm breaks and/or root breaks

2. Lull critical resists

The first I’m assuming you could still stabilize with color flux and shift on your bar. Honestly even now if mobs have ever hit my bez rune at all, it’s either gone or I re-apply it anyway. So that shouldn’t be a problem even post change

The critical lull resist could or most likely would kill you. So a workaround is charm a single, send it in, pull the pack out, and hit with aoe mez. Or if you don’t have a single to work with, then attempt to just lead with aoe mez if u have LOS. Because that will tend to only resist (if ever) on 1 or 2, with is an easier situation to stabilize post change than a crit lull resist

And go ahead and nerf animation. I can’t seem to find a Zumaik’s and I’m jealous of other people that already have it. This isn’t a satire about you this is literally just me, lol. So nerf that shit. Animations are hella boring anyway, you don’t even get to cast fun dps spells like nec or mage. I picked enchanter because it’s a busy class, and the animation is the opposite of busy playstyle

So all in all I say bring it on. I propose now I could still easily solo through any dungeon I already know

[starkind]

Good job OP :Thumbs Up:

Fairly impressive team effort there, thanks for the work. I remember the pain of trying to cast spells at low levels in the original game. It'll be interesting to see this in action assuming the P99 admins decide to utilize it. Even remembering "how it was" I expect I'll need a bit of time to adjust after 12 years of P1999.

Danth

Indeed

Idk so enchanter is going to be gimped and isnt going to be fun anymore. Why would anyone want to level a gimped class? Who's going to fill in the void that the now-useless enchanter will leave behind?

There are ways to survive and still be the most OP class, just not 'god'like. This isn't that bad a nerf as you think it is.

-----

All this said, I am one of the few people who played and am addicted horribly since 1999 and yes this is a very important fix.

It is especially important come green/red/blue3.0 purple or whatever because at low lvl without all the velious gear casters are way to OP way way way to OP

----------

next incoming proposed fix, bring dodge/parry/riposte in line with their pre-pop -pre-luclin counterpoints and the skills should matter a lot more than they do now.

Thank you everyone for supporting this project, and I look forward to getting bashed/stuned/knocked around and needing to actually use root or plant myself in a corner, which was the ONLY way I could get spells off in any serious capacity in dungeons without stuns/flux line of spells. Makes that 1.5 fast cast root gold. Makes the game a lot more enjoyable. Makes mezzing 5 mobs a lot more dangerous and require a better group to support the enchanter. P.S. you can root mobs that aren't agroing you--- this is a social game. Help a bro (or lady) out.

[unsunghero]

Now if you did this change AND made charm and mez unreliable, that would be disastrous to chanters

[starkind]

ya'll still got those badass animations, haste, slow, and lull/root/memblur

*cough*

[azxten]

This is weird considering I never disagreed that channeling wasn’t classic on P99. I was fully supportive of fixing it if it was possible to do which some old devs and stuff had said in the past that it wasn’t but hey if they were able to fix it then great.

What I disagreed with you on was other aspects of Enchanter charm mechanics where you had no evidence besides conflicting forum posts from 20 years ago.

Whatever you want to believe. If they fix channeling I'm going to propose fixes for all the other provably broken Enchanter stuff. If I remember right the list is about 100 items long and you're certain that since you showed some of them don't have enough evidence we should ignore all of them.

Let's have resistable tash, no charm break message, pets that attack your group members, etc just a few of the proven items from that list.

"Look bro, it's not going to hurt Enchanters to make channeling 10x harder, make Tash resistable, have no message when their charm breaks, have animations with half the HP, have their charm pets attack their group members.... I have ways around all of those, stop trying to get them fixed, there isn't even any like.. pfft.. evidence." - You

[azxten]

Whatever you want to believe. If they fix channeling I'm going to propose fixes for all the other provably broken Enchanter stuff. If I remember right the list is about 100 items long and you're certain that since you showed some of them don't have enough evidence we should ignore all of them.

Let's have resistable tash, no charm break message, pets that attack your group members, etc just a few of the proven items from that list.

"Look bro, it's not going to hurt Enchanters to make channeling 10x harder, make Tash resistable, have no message when their charm breaks, have animations with half the HP, have their charm pets attack their group members.... I have ways around all of those, stop trying to get them fixed, there isn't even any like.. pfft.. evidence." - You

"Oh and like, even if there was evidence, a dev said it can't be fixed anyway because it's a client issue so don't even try. No I don't have that quote on hand, why?" - You

I remember you calling me names and stalking me around the forums and I wrote you back one time calling you names, savaging burning you so bad they banned me from forums. You know bro.

[unsunghero]

ya'll still got those badass animations, haste, slow, and lull/root/memblur

*cough*

To me fun-factor is still a variable though, and the animations are the most boring pet in the game. You can't give them commands, can't re-position them, and all you do every single mob is slow and maybe stun and give your animation rune. I suppose for a hard fight you could also try dot'ing and nuking with our terribly mana inefficient spell-based dps, but that's not something you could maintain doing; it's just not worth the mana if efficiency and the value of your time matters to you over "ooo pretty sparkles"

And the proposed nerfs did incorporate nerfing animations, I just didn't mention it

They are also somewhat of a pain when dealing with certain kinds of mobs. For example, you don't want to have shadowknights kick you in the nuts with every harmtouch just to get your animation on them, so you have to mez them, then finagle your animation over to stand next to them, then root them in range of it, which gets them to HT it. Same goes for nasty necromancer, shaman, any caster mob that is going to try to DoT you. You have to mez them, root them, get the animation in range of them, then wait for mez to fade to get that initial cast towards the animation and not you. You could try to facecheck them and stun interrupt their first spell, but that's just a wasted rune because they are going to hit you with melee too

So yeah, nerf them, they're not fun anyway

[starkind]

To me fun-factor is still a variable though, and the animations are the most boring pet in the game. You can't give them commands, can't re-position them, and all you do every single mob is slow and maybe stun and give your animation rune. I suppose for a hard fight you could also try dot'ing and nuking with our terribly mana inefficient spell-based dps, but that's not something you could maintain doing; it's just not worth the mana if efficiency and the value of your time matters to you over "ooo pretty sparkles"

And the proposed nerfs did incorporate nerfing animations, I just didn't mention it

They are also somewhat of a pain when dealing with certain kinds of mobs. For example, you don't want to have shadowknights kick you in the nuts with every harmtouch just to get your animation on them, so you have to mez them, then finagle your animation over to stand next to them, then root them in range of it, which gets them to HT it. Same goes for nasty necromancer, shaman, any caster mob that is going to try to DoT you. You have to mez them, root them, get the animation in range of them, then wait for mez to fade to get that initial cast towards the animation and not you. You could try to facecheck them and stun interrupt their first spell, but that's just a wasted rune because they are going to hit you with melee too

So yeah, nerf them, they're not fun anyway
That all sounds like more fun to me. I didn't know about the mezzing and rooting animation next to a mob thing.

Ya don't forget you guys have rune too!

About half of enchanters are just not really that good and should be rolling mages or wizards and grouping more.

Goal us classic EQ. More or less. I'm pro cosmetic changes. Not pro leaving the game too easy/imba for convenience. There are a ton of options for convenience. Live is a good one for enchanters who want the game to be soloquest and to solo raid mobs or churn out items with very little effort.

[unsunghero]

That all sounds like more fun to me. I didn't know about the mezzing and rooting animation next to a mob thing

I found out the hard way trying to kill the cool looking scorpion things in OT. They all HT, and it was late at night and I was tired and was using the animation to solo at the time. I pull the first to get the animation on it and it runs up and OOF! HT kick in the nuts. I think ok that one just happened to be a shadowknight. Let's see about the next one. OOF! Another HT kick in the nuts. Now I'm staggering away at under half health thinking how the F am I going to get the animation on these things without getting HT. So then I was rooting them and trying to drag it over them, but my ping is pretty bad and sometimes they'd still HT swipe me, also even their DoTs they cast at range is not something I want to be eating, so I started mezzing too.

The casters I've found it's always easiest to lead with the nullify line normally before attempting to slow. They seem to always have either a nasty DS or good buffs or both. But that doesn't work with the animation pet. Because then they'll stick a nasty DoT on me from range before they run over. So I need to lead with mez, then root, then mez again or something to blur, then finagle the animation over towards them to get them to jump on it. Then ideally interrupt their first cast with stun while still being out of melee range. If people want to do that for every caster, while also only getting 50% experience the entire time, be my guest. I just find it all annoying and boring

[Jimjam]

Idk if classic, but mobs will blow their HT timer if you get them to attempt to cast HT at a time they can’t use it (such as in the middle of casting a spell). Hope this helps (or is nerfed if appropriate!)

[starkind]

I found out the hard way trying to kill the cool looking scorpion things in OT. They all HT, and it was late at night and I was tired and was using the animation to solo at the time. I pull the first to get the animation on it and it runs up and OOF! HT kick in the nuts. I think ok that one just happened to be a shadowknight. Let's see about the next one. OOF! Another HT kick in the nuts. Now I'm staggering away at under half health thinking how the F am I going to get the animation on these things without getting HT. So then I was rooting them and trying to drag it over them, but my ping is pretty bad and sometimes they'd still HT swipe me, also even their DoTs they cast at range is not something I want to be eating, so I started mezzing too.

The casters I've found it's always easiest to lead with the nullify line normally before attempting to slow. They seem to always have either a nasty DS or good buffs or both. But that doesn't work with the animation pet. Because then they'll stick a nasty DoT on me from range before they run over. So I need to lead with mez, then root, then mez again or something to blur, then finagle the animation over towards them to get them to jump on it. Then ideally interrupt their first cast with stun while still being out of melee range. If people want to do that for every caster, while also only getting 50% experience the entire time, be my guest. I just find it all annoying and boring

Well. A hasted Troll warrior duel wielding shark teeth and with walk speed on can crreep up into mobs and attempt to push interrupt them plus bash without an animation or rune up to eat the HT.

SKs got their grreeny little pet, their own ht, but no slow or colorflux.

For wizards, just have to spam rend and like lightning bolt or something with a 0.0 sec and click jboots praying to God.

Clerics get DA and can spam fear, and nuke o.O

Rogues, uhm, lol, maybe a poison, or lucky intimidate on some greens?

Maybe *classic* enchanter, just isn't for you ;)

Imma, let up now.

It's RnF, kinda didn't feel like pulling a punch. Nothing personal!

Chanter is OOOOOp. Will still be pretty decent, and require some finger wiggly finesse, tis EQ. That's how this game gets deep. Not just churning through dark blues semiafk.

[unsunghero]

Well. A hasted Troll warrior duel wielding shark teeth and with walk speed on can crreep up into mobs and attempt to push interrupt them plus bash without an animation or rune up to eat the HT.

SKs got their grreeny little pet, their own ht, but no slow or colorflux.

For wizards, just have to spam rend and like lightning bolt or something with a 0.0 sec and click jboots praying to God.

Clerics get DA and can spam fear, and nuke o.O

Rogues, uhm, lol, maybe a poison, or lucky intimidate on some greens?

Maybe *classic* enchanter, just isn't for you ;)

Imma, let up now.

It's RnF, kinda didn't feel like pulling a punch. Nothing personal!

Chanter is OOOOOp. Will still be pretty decent, and require some finger wiggly finesse, tis EQ. That's how this game gets deep. Not just churning through dark blues semiafk.

Well like I mentioned, I could still live with the channeling changes and an animation nerf, but a nerf to make charm and mez more unreliable + those other 2 I just don't see myself recovering from. And possibly a lot of other casual players, like the OP mentioned. It would definitely make chanters more rare, but the drawback is it would definitely also make necros more common, and they are already at the low to mid levels in my opinion the second most common class behind druids

And I actually have never gone for dark blues in my char's lifetime, which is probably why I've died so rarely. The sweet spot in my opinion for most everyone is going after mobs that are exp green and low blue. This is because you have a visual representation of level (obv blue is higher level than the green ones around it), and also they for sure will not hit as hard on average, and miss more often, than dark blues. Then there's charm breaks, I found on the rare occasions I tried charming a dark blue just to watch it wreck stuff, that it was significantly more unreliable

And anyone who thinks charm is reliable when targetting exp greens is simply wrong. There has never been a session where I've sat down to charm solo greens where charm has not broken randomly including seconds after it lands. And that's with 240 cha. I really don't see an extra 15 CHA changing this. Charm is not reliable now. You will always have to be ready for a break, because there always will be some breaks, even charming greens

[starkind]

Well the game isn't soloquest. Find urself a good paladin pal or cleric and marry them.

And ya I enjoy killing exp greens the most cuz its just safer funner, and less random, and I'm after goodies or faction usually anyway. Not even a chanter, so like I can actually hunt the occasional yellowcon solo with fear and an undead nuke, its just never worth the risk/rewards.

Maybe you only sorta like EQ... takp is a lot easier with pop erra combat code and resists and twink items galore. Imho that's the server to do solo challenge, nostalgia quest on.

[starkind]

Should have put ur stats all in agi :p just like every pro actual enchanter in 1999 that I had to hit with divine light immediately after rooting the mezd mob that just smacked them :p

[Ashenden]

People keep bringing up animations. Wasn't there proof that animations should be garbage compared to their current P99 numbers?

[starkind]

Yep. Enchanters should be good. And able to pull off some fun feats with a little luck.. Not immortal pharming sololordz11111!1 That solo fungiking247.

Don't go alone and you'll have an easier time.

Even the nerfed animations are p great vs exp greens with buffs and the enemy mob weakened, disempowered, slowed, etc.

[cd288]

Whatever you want to believe. If they fix channeling I'm going to propose fixes for all the other provably broken Enchanter stuff. If I remember right the list is about 100 items long and you're certain that since you showed some of them don't have enough evidence we should ignore all of them.

Let's have resistable tash, no charm break message, pets that attack your group members, etc just a few of the proven items from that list.

"Look bro, it's not going to hurt Enchanters to make channeling 10x harder, make Tash resistable, have no message when their charm breaks, have animations with half the HP, have their charm pets attack their group members.... I have ways around all of those, stop trying to get them fixed, there isn't even any like.. pfft.. evidence." - You

Nah the only thing you ever provided legitimate evidence for that wasn’t an old forum post that is completely contradicted by other old forum posts was channeling.

But wait wait wait, let me get this straight. You’re saying they actually haven’t made any changes to channeling? You made this post when they haven’t even changed anything? That’s…odd lol. But yeah if they ever actually changed channeling I would be all for it, but so strange to make a post like this when they haven’t done anything lol. I had no idea I was living in your head this much, I’m touched.

[Gustoo]

Bristlebane smiles on your efforts 🖤

I remember getting interrupted on live

[Disease]

I guess an enchanter took this guy's camp or something?

[unsunghero]

I guess an enchanter took this guy's camp or something?

They are super strong, but still I don't see them taking over the casual player scene. Before I made a char on P99, I was torn on whether it would be Enc or Nec. So I read the forums for a long time. And the general consensus from people who had both a max or near max level Nec AND max lev enchanter was that solo'ing on the Nec was just more enjoyable/comfortable, even if not as powerful sometimes

I've only played Nec to level 115 on Live, but I would agree with that. Enchanter is always going to be somewhat tense to play. You are always poised for that charm break, assuming you aren't using the animation. Even solo'ing outside you are still hustling to find stuff for the charmed pet to kill or die to, or to find stuff to drag to it if you wanted to plant it near a wall with /pet guard here to be a little safer. Always there is a countdown going in your mind as to how long you think you might have before charm breaks. And any time you are thinking of pulling, in your mind you are always going to have be thinking "ok how many times can charm break in a row before I'm fucked, mana-wise, if I pull right now?"

And I've mentioned this before, but I've never once had a session where afterwards I thought "man, what luck, not a single charm break in the past 30 minutes of killing. How relaxing". It's not gonna happen. Ever. Even killing greens

It's just tense. It'll always be tense. And that just isn't for everybody, especially casual players

[starkind]

Since when was charming mobs supposed to be casual and fluffy?

Highly recommend mage. Can go out to DL and you'll have ages of room to chain pets, or u can do the highest con pet with gear vs the exp greens game. Super ez. Usually a good plat haul. Low stress or fuss with resists.

[unsunghero]

Since when was charming mobs supposed to be casual and fluffy?

Highly recommend mage. Can go out to DL and you'll have ages of room to chain pets, or u can do the highest con pet with gear vs the exp greens game. Super ez. Usually a good plat haul. Low stress or fuss with resists.

See to me that sounds boring, which is why using the animation is boring, or why playing a rogue for me would be boring. I don’t mind things being tense, I find it adds wven more excitement to a game that already adds lots of excitement due to deaths being so potentially disastrous (if in a dungeon)

But the tenseness is not for everyone. Which is probably the only thing keeping chanters from completely taking over, population-wise

[Jimjam]

Since when was charming mobs supposed to be casual and fluffy?

Highly recommend mage. Can go out to DL and you'll have ages of room to chain pets, or u can do the highest con pet with gear vs the exp greens game. Super ez. Usually a good plat haul. Low stress or fuss with resists.

IDK, dire charming baby frogs and cogs in Plane of Storms/Innovation?

[Jimjam]

I remember getting interrupted on live

I was playing with some level 70 shrouds on live and they were getting interrupted a lot. Obviously very not classic environment, but felt much more classic than what I have got used to here!

[starkind]

IDK, dire charming baby frogs and cogs in Plane of Storms/Innovation?

dire charming greens and kiting them like ur an sk... OK

was good dps and fun and enchanters used other tricks but like that was pop man

and by all means those weren't the most uberest of mobs at the time anymore when ppl started doing that

and it was for like a few aas

if a lvl 30 mob here breaks charm its not going to murder u which is like normal man, u could """""reliably""""" farm like gobbolin bar

[Toxigen]

op has been trying to get enchanters nerfed for years

seek help

[starkind]

Everyone needs to be nerfed (and melees ever so slightly also buffed) in order for the game to be classic

seek help

[Tunabros]

p99 isn't classic at all

doubt this weird ass change will go in

also unroot dragons

[azxten]

p99 isn't classic at all

doubt this weird ass change will go in

also unroot dragons

Thymes N'Chymes 60 Phantasmist [Master of Mischief]

Most people who are upset by this have a high level Enchanter. It's strange but probably not causative.

op has been trying to get enchanters nerfed for years

seek help

Looks like it was around February of this year when I posted some bug reports. I don't know why people are so against classic EQ. This is P99 after all. Maybe things would be more classic if people spent more time contributing and less time protecting overpowered mechanics.

Interesting that a change which is supported by archived EQ lead dev posts and a client decompile are called "weird ass changes."

None of you are going to survive in a closer approximation of classic. Start rolling Necros.

[Tunabros]

it will never happen

sorry you're not good at enchanters

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/oqnqW94.jpg

[azxten]

it will never happen

sorry you're not good at enchanters

I'm definitely not and that I was able to make it to level 40 indicates how broken they are. On classic Live I tried Enchanter many times and only made it to level 8 on a successful attempt. It's going to happen though. I shouldn't be able to play Enchanter to 40 something is wrong here. Quite literally I would still run into rooms with 5 mobs and win. My only downtime was waiting on HP regen with troll illusion. Yet I didn't use clickies. I didn't do anything. I just walked in, casted through 5 mobs hitting me to charm one, backed up and let them all burn it down and then used racial hide to nuke it and get full exp then repeat for the next one leaving me almost dead but with fat XP stacks and a nice AFK break to clean my house. Apparently that isn't how Enchanter is supposed to work but it works just fine on P99. Anyone who hasn't played Enchanter yet on P99 give it a try because it's ridiculous overpowered even more than you can possibly imagine from watching others but it won't be soon.

[Tunabros]

didn't read

also no one cares

people rather play everquest than scroll through 50 pages of everquest archives (lol!)

[starkind]

I care.

A lot.

About the integrity of the game.

P.s. uproot dragons.

Make green 2.0 the server you can KS.

Let u.n. stay on blue.

[unsunghero]

I'm definitely not and that I was able to make it to level 40 indicates how broken they are. On classic Live I tried Enchanter many times and only made it to level 8 on a successful attempt.

Well to be fair all you need to do to get to 20 while basically afk on any pet class is give the pet a rusty 2handed weapon and it does basically double damage, becoming OP. This stops working at 20 though

Once again I barely remember vanilla so I don’t remember if it happened there but I do know I only learned this once I started playing on P99. So if it is not classic u could add this to your list of things to “fix”

I know you sarcastically mentioned “but muh game knowledge” but it really is a thing and really does play a huge role in chanter or other class success. I had no idea GCD resetting with clicky’s was a thing and without it, stuns completely break down and become near-worthless since you won’t have enough time to get off a mez or root after color shift without it before you get hit. I guess a casual noob player hypothetically now may not care because they can just channel through everything anyway, but me personally I was resetting GCD after stunning as soon as I possibly could because taking damage, while not all that threatening at low levels, still slows you wayyy down by forcing you to sit down in troll form

Also, I didn’t know about gnome vision, I didn’t know I could calm mobs through walls, and those 2 things are the real reason enchanters can solo dungeons, if I had to pick the biggest 2. Not channeling through hits

[unsunghero]

TLDR: so for me anyway, game knowledge really was everything when it comes to p99 success (leveling without dying)

[realsubtle]

On classic Live I tried Enchanter many times and only made it to level 8 on a successful attempt

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha (wiping a tear away) Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaha bro WHY would you share this you should be embarrassed about this bro

[Toxigen]

I'm definitely not and that I was able to make it to level 40 indicates how broken they are. On classic Live I tried Enchanter many times and only made it to level 8 on a successful attempt. It's going to happen though. I shouldn't be able to play Enchanter to 40 something is wrong here. Quite literally I would still run into rooms with 5 mobs and win. My only downtime was waiting on HP regen with troll illusion. Yet I didn't use clickies. I didn't do anything. I just walked in, casted through 5 mobs hitting me to charm one, backed up and let them all burn it down and then used racial hide to nuke it and get full exp then repeat for the next one leaving me almost dead but with fat XP stacks and a nice AFK break to clean my house. Apparently that isn't how Enchanter is supposed to work but it works just fine on P99. Anyone who hasn't played Enchanter yet on P99 give it a try because it's ridiculous overpowered even more than you can possibly imagine from watching others but it won't be soon.


k so you're a terrible player in general

got it

[Gustoo]

I don't know why this stuff gets defended. Spells got interrupted on live and they basically don't here.

People were speculating why charm wasn't so incredibly OP on live, its simply because here you can cast through attacks with a pretty high success rate. On live you would pray your spell worked and then when it didn't you were dead.

[Fammaden]

Would this code affect NPC channeling too?

[starkind]

I don't know why this stuff gets defended. Spells got interrupted on live and they basically don't here.

People were speculating why charm wasn't so incredibly OP on live, its simply because here you can cast through attacks with a pretty high success rate. On live you would pray your spell worked and then when it didn't you were dead.

Would this code affect NPC channeling too?

[Tunabros]

I care.

A lot.

About the integrity of the game.

P.s. uproot dragons.

Make green 2.0 the server you can KS.

Let u.n. stay on blue.

none of your toons made it past level 20

also you're probably too dumb to play enchanter

also you never raided once in your life

also cope + you're cringe

[Gustoo]

starkind is good at the game I played with starkind alts like a million years ago when red 99 had players. Mostly seemed to quit toons at level 46.

[Chortles Snortles]

tunabros and starkind should make out and have sex already

[Tunabros]

tunabros and starkind should make out and have sex already

stealing my joke

cope :rolleyes:

[Whale biologist]

tunabros and starkind should make out and have sex already

[Gustoo]

tunabros and starkind should make out and have sex already

[Ripqozko]

tunabros and starkind should make out and have sex already

[Faxi]

I dedicate this effort to cd288. Without his constant crying about my efforts to nerf Enchanter I might have lost motivation. He almost threw me when he claimed the client code wouldn't work well with modified server code but Nilbog confirmed that was bullshit.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3395356

You all ready to get good?



Mmmmm.. I can't wait bros. See you in game once it goes live.

https://i.imgur.com/apTNBR3.png

100% can we get a forum mod to sticky this??? Needs to confront all the eyes on p99

[azxten]

tunabros and starkind should make out and have sex already

[azxten]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha (wiping a tear away) Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaha bro WHY would you share this you should be embarrassed about this bro

If I ever was embarrassed about something that happened in a video game I'd have serious problems to consider. Unlike most people on P99 I actually played classic EQ. I quit right before Kunark and came back late in Velious just before Luclin. There are probably like 5 people on P99 who remember classic era with the same detail I do.

NO ONE was leveling Enchanter in classic EQ unless they hated themselves. By far statistically it was the least popular class. That is why I hate P99 Enchanter so much because I basically want to play Green launch, relive my classic glory, and then quit when Kunark comes out and yet there is Enchanter the most popular class totally inverted from classic.

I was playing actually fun classes and cybering elfs not posting on the SOE forums about why my class seems to be worse with every patch. To answer your question, I share it because those who know classic know I'm right. Those who don't will keep thinking their memories of Luclin and PoP mean anything. One of my recent favorite reads was archived Enchanter posts where everyone agreed they don't even memorize Mez. That's how broken Enchanter was. When they fixed Mez which was broken in about 10 different ways, Enchanters complained they couldn't DoT mobs anymore because they used to be able to DoT a Mezzed mob. I could play P99 Enchanter well but I don't want to, it's a near zero downtime OP class and I only played EQ as something to do to make things I didn't want to do more enjoyable like cleaning the house. I can't clean the house if I have to keep charming and have no reason to stop. I like quadding, I like downtime breaks for cybering elfs and tidying my study.

You weren't there, poser...

[slard271]

If I ever was embarrassed about something that happened in a video game I'd have serious problems to consider. Unlike most people on P99 I actually played classic EQ. I quit right before Kunark and came back late in Velious just before Luclin. There are probably like 5 people on P99 who remember classic era with the same detail I do.

NO ONE was leveling Enchanter in classic EQ unless they hated themselves. By far statistically it was the least popular class. That is why I hate P99 Enchanter so much because I basically want to play Green launch, relive my classic glory, and then quit when Kunark comes out and yet there is Enchanter the most popular class totally inverted from classic.

I was playing actually fun classes and cybering elfs not posting on the SOE forums about why my class seems to be worse with every patch. To answer your question, I share it because those who know classic know I'm right. Those who don't will keep thinking their memories of Luclin and PoP mean anything. One of my recent favorite reads was archived Enchanter posts where everyone agreed they don't even memorize Mez. That's how broken Enchanter was. When they fixed Mez which was broken in about 10 different ways, Enchanters complained they couldn't DoT mobs anymore because they used to be able to DoT a Mezzed mob. I could play P99 Enchanter well but I don't want to, it's a near zero downtime OP class and I only played EQ as something to do to make things I didn't want to do more enjoyable like cleaning the house. I can't clean the house if I have to keep charming and have no reason to stop. I like quadding, I like downtime breaks for cybering elfs and tidying my study.

You weren't there, poser...

I kinda felt this was genuine at first but not anymore. This is a bizarre, self-righteous quest to nerf chanters. I don't really give a shit if enchanters are OP or not, I've rolled many 60s and enc was actually one of the most fun to play; and if you're a shitty chanter it shows. When you hit 60 is when it gets boring, but I digress. Your channeling modification is misguided - the things that made things classic will never come back. As a refutation to your "I remember" argument, I also remember plenty of good enchanters. One in particular on Tholluxe Paells in my guild who was a mega-boss when it came to chantering. This was pre-kunark through the end of Luclin. So "I remember" your argument as false. Going after channeling as an avenue to rebalance "classic" is a fool's errand, at best. Penny wise, pound foolish. Focus your insights elsewhere.

[azxten]

I kinda felt this was genuine at first but not anymore. This is a bizarre, self-righteous quest to nerf chanters. I don't really give a shit if enchanters are OP or not, I've rolled many 60s and enc was actually one of the most fun to play; and if you're a shitty chanter it shows. When you hit 60 is when it gets boring, but I digress. Your channeling modification is misguided - the things that made things classic will never come back. As a refutation to your "I remember" argument, I also remember plenty of good enchanters. One in particular on Tholluxe Paells in my guild who was a mega-boss when it came to chantering. This was pre-kunark through the end of Luclin. So "I remember" your argument as false. Going after channeling as an avenue to rebalance "classic" is a fool's errand, at best. Penny wise, pound foolish. Focus your insights elsewhere.

Always keep them guessing. I did cyber many an elf though. Neriak behind the waterfall. If you know you know.

[silverknight2003]

this server isnt classic you autist

[azxten]

this server isnt classic you autist

This isn't 1999? Where am I?

[Jimjam]

This server isn't classic, you saint It is a goal we are working towards!

[realsubtle]

If I ever was embarrassed about something that happened in a video game I'd have serious problems to consider. Unlike most people on P99 I actually played classic EQ. I quit right before Kunark and came back late in Velious just before Luclin. There are probably like 5 people on P99 who remember classic era with the same detail I do.

NO ONE was leveling Enchanter in classic EQ unless they hated themselves. By far statistically it was the least popular class. That is why I hate P99 Enchanter so much because I basically want to play Green launch, relive my classic glory, and then quit when Kunark comes out and yet there is Enchanter the most popular class totally inverted from classic.

I was playing actually fun classes and cybering elfs not posting on the SOE forums about why my class seems to be worse with every patch. To answer your question, I share it because those who know classic know I'm right. Those who don't will keep thinking their memories of Luclin and PoP mean anything. One of my recent favorite reads was archived Enchanter posts where everyone agreed they don't even memorize Mez. That's how broken Enchanter was. When they fixed Mez which was broken in about 10 different ways, Enchanters complained they couldn't DoT mobs anymore because they used to be able to DoT a Mezzed mob. I could play P99 Enchanter well but I don't want to, it's a near zero downtime OP class and I only played EQ as something to do to make things I didn't want to do more enjoyable like cleaning the house. I can't clean the house if I have to keep charming and have no reason to stop. I like quadding, I like downtime breaks for cybering elfs and tidying my study.

You weren't there, poser...

Lol the first time i ever played classic i was 11 at my friend matt mcdonough's house (RIP bro, see you in heaven buddy) and when i was 12, my parents got me ruins of kunark and a subscription, i made it to level 14 as enchanter on the most low-effort of low-effort alts, with druid and warrior as my serious mains. I was NOT good at the game, either, but i at least knew enough to know how to not die all the time. You got beat by a 12 year old bro. And normally i wouldnt care to make fun of you at all but like many of the nerf-obsessed youve shown nothing but a horrible, contemptuous attitude from beginning to end, talking about how youre so hardcore and want salty tears and for everyone to rage quit, but really youre just an envious little scrub, the biggest ragequitter of them at all.

[realsubtle]

Also like... cybering elfs?? Not to gay panic, but like... be real with yourself dude. You couldnt play the game because you were too busy cybering the female toons of a majority male demographic? And thats why you get all your knowledge about classic enchanter from vaguely remembered ancient forums posts written by unreliable sources heavily prone to user error? How is more irrelevant, embarrassing information supposed to help your case here? Whats next? "Yeah i peed my pants in a job interview one time. Nerf Enchanter!"

[starkind]

I'm only embarresed cuz a few guys have fell in love with me and I wasn't able to commit.

Nerf chanters!

[Robot]

if they nerf channeling for players they need to nerf it on mobs. its stupid when trying to solo a green con on a high lvl monk that it channels every spell every time through 2 dozen hits and kicks

[unsunghero]

If I ever was embarrassed about something that happened in a video game I'd have serious problems to consider. Unlike most people on P99 I actually played classic EQ. I quit right before Kunark and came back late in Velious just before Luclin. There are probably like 5 people on P99 who remember classic era with the same detail I do.

NO ONE was leveling Enchanter in classic EQ unless they hated themselves. By far statistically it was the least popular class. That is why I hate P99 Enchanter so much because I basically want to play Green launch, relive my classic glory, and then quit when Kunark comes out and yet there is Enchanter the most popular class totally inverted from classic.

I was playing actually fun classes and cybering elfs not posting on the SOE forums about why my class seems to be worse with every patch. To answer your question, I share it because those who know classic know I'm right. Those who don't will keep thinking their memories of Luclin and PoP mean anything. One of my recent favorite reads was archived Enchanter posts where everyone agreed they don't even memorize Mez. That's how broken Enchanter was. When they fixed Mez which was broken in about 10 different ways, Enchanters complained they couldn't DoT mobs anymore because they used to be able to DoT a Mezzed mob. I could play P99 Enchanter well but I don't want to, it's a near zero downtime OP class and I only played EQ as something to do to make things I didn't want to do more enjoyable like cleaning the house. I can't clean the house if I have to keep charming and have no reason to stop. I like quadding, I like downtime breaks for cybering elfs and tidying my study.

You weren't there, poser...

To start I agree with you on the embarrassment thing. This is also just a game to me, and I am thankful that for me real life is better

But I can’t agree with enchanter being the most popular class, at least not on green. I can only speak for the level ranges I’ve seen, but there no one even comes close to druid. The ability to solo well, travel easily, and make good money by porting others is just too good a combination to compete with, I’m guessing. Druid is hands down the most popular class on Green that I’ve seen

Second seems to be necromancer, which is also the class people would likely be flocking to if enchanter needs ever put in. I would put enchanter maybe at third, but at low to kid levels there are also a surprising amount of mages, at least surprising to me considering how boring their playstyle seems to me. But they are highly popular, probably just as a farming char or a future guild coth bot

When I consider why enchanters aren’t the most popular class, I would say it is because of what I already mentioned, they will always be either boring (if you choose to use the animation) and semi-ineffective (since using the animation results in -50% experience gained always), or they are tense (if you charm solo). I have seen this sentiment echo’d many times when I have been reading the forum before I was playing. There are many people who rolled an enchanter, didn’t like not being able to go to the bathroom while having a mob charmed solo or in a group. And they called enchanter “stressful” a “high stress” class. Anyone who wanted to unwind with some P99 after a hard day is probably not going to enjoy enchanter as much as other classes. This is why I’ve seen others say strong solo’ers like Necro or mage are just more enjoyable to solo for them

In terms of non-stop killing, ehhh, I would only say maybe in an area with caster mobs. I reported chanters could non-stop kill, but at the time I was fighting in FV killing spiders which are 100% casters. Even with ToT, when I charm solo, say, the entrance to SolB, I do have to stop and med even with theft of thought, because there just aren’t enough gnoll shaman around to drain. ToT also only works once per mob, unlike wandering mind. So a long drawn out fight where ToT refreshes is meaningless. But unless you want to do HELLA-spell swapping with your remaining spells, it’s not worth keeping ToT and wandering mind both on your bar. And outdoor zones seem to have a plethora of warrior mobs without mana. I had heard so much about Theft of thought being this insane power spike, and how you could non-stop kill and how it made mana irrelevant, and even if you are in an area with like 30% caster mobs it is just not true. You need a majority of caster mobs for that to be true

Just my .02

[unsunghero]

Last point I forgot: when it comes to chanter popularity in Green, a major turn off for people is not having the tab next target hotkey. All you have to work with is the tab hotkey

This ESPECIALLY affects grouping chanters. If a clump of mobs is pulled to the group, you have no hotkey to cycle through targeting each mob in that clump like you do on Blue, yet you are solely responsible for CC’ing. This will require either using fast typing + the /tar command, the group trying to spread out the mobs somehow, or you circling around the clump furiously trying to click parts of mobs or using the tab command (target closest mob) to try to cycle targets that way. It can be a royal pain in the ass and a dealbreaker for many

[Tewaz]

I still can't believe the dedication to making one class tougher to level.

[Tunabros]

drugs

[Jimjam]

Best cc is wizard. Kite adds with aoe snare, root them all spaced out, use a variety of stuns to keep casters interrupted or fuck it just wuad all four adds down before the group kills the main target lol.

[Tunabros]

Best cc is wizard. Kite adds with aoe snare, root them all spaced out, use a variety of stuns to keep casters interrupted or fuck it just wuad all four adds down before the group kills the main target lol.

autismspeaks.org

[azxten]

my parents got me ruins of kunark and a subscription, i made it to level 14 as enchanter

Poor reading comprehension. I'm sorry.

[cd288]

If I ever was embarrassed about something that happened in a video game I'd have serious problems to consider. Unlike most people on P99 I actually played classic EQ. I quit right before Kunark and came back late in Velious just before Luclin. There are probably like 5 people on P99 who remember classic era with the same detail I do.

NO ONE was leveling Enchanter in classic EQ unless they hated themselves. By far statistically it was the least popular class. That is why I hate P99 Enchanter so much because I basically want to play Green launch, relive my classic glory, and then quit when Kunark comes out and yet there is Enchanter the most popular class totally inverted from classic.

I was playing actually fun classes and cybering elfs not posting on the SOE forums about why my class seems to be worse with every patch. To answer your question, I share it because those who know classic know I'm right. Those who don't will keep thinking their memories of Luclin and PoP mean anything. One of my recent favorite reads was archived Enchanter posts where everyone agreed they don't even memorize Mez. That's how broken Enchanter was. When they fixed Mez which was broken in about 10 different ways, Enchanters complained they couldn't DoT mobs anymore because they used to be able to DoT a Mezzed mob. I could play P99 Enchanter well but I don't want to, it's a near zero downtime OP class and I only played EQ as something to do to make things I didn't want to do more enjoyable like cleaning the house. I can't clean the house if I have to keep charming and have no reason to stop. I like quadding, I like downtime breaks for cybering elfs and tidying my study.

You weren't there, poser...

I mean you’re right that in the initial classic old world era not many people were playing enchanters because they didn’t realize what they could do. But the classic era overall is old world through Velious and by Kunark there were lots of enchanters everywhere. People had really started to realize the power of the class. Did they have charm killing down to an exact science like they do now? Definitely not, but the number of enchanters increased a ton through Kunark.

[Chortles Snortles]

hey guys trust me i got my enc to 8 on live, ok?
(LOL)

[Tewaz]

Game was hard in 2001 = game should be hard now

[loramin]

Game was hard in 2001 = game should be hard now

[Chortles Snortles]

i bet you feel pretty silly right now

[bwe]

I mean you’re right that in the initial classic old world era not many people were playing enchanters because they didn’t realize what they could do. But the classic era overall is old world through Velious and by Kunark there were lots of enchanters everywhere. People had really started to realize the power of the class. Did they have charm killing down to an exact science like they do now? Definitely not, but the number of enchanters increased a ton through Kunark.

lol you're in every enchanter thread saying that enchanter players back in 1999 had brain damage

[azxten]

lol you're in every enchanter thread saying that enchanter players back in 1999 had brain damage

He never quits.

It has nothing to do with "muh game knowledge." Enchanter was the least popular class because it was broken. The evidence is already compiled in the bug forum. The only question, if he was mature enough to admit the truth, is if P99 should recreate pet bugs or not during the classic period before Kunark.

Anyone who played classic remembers people hating ALL pet classes and telling them not to summon a pet in groups especially indoors. The pets fell through the world, they aggro mobs through walls, they randomly ran away from the group, they attacked group members, and so on. This is all supported in patch notes, archived in era player posts, class guides, and more. Necro was the only good pet class and it was an OP solo master class that didn't even need a group. If their pet fell through the world they just feigned.

Enchanter's charm pet was even worse than other pets in this regard as you can imagine. This guy just can't admit it though even in the face of overwhelming evidence he just repeats his "muh game knowledge" lies. Even beyond the pet and charm stuff, I also showed him classic era class guides which outline the exact same mechanics people on P99 use. This wasn't secret knowledge. Live had probably 100x as many players during classic. People figured things out and quickly. The things they didn't figure out were how to deal with the endless bugs.

It would be rather silly and maybe a bit extreme to recreate bugs like your pet randomly falling through the zone, warping to the zone safe spot, and then running back to you getting aggro and dying and training the entire zone. My only argument was that it's fine to fix those bugs and not recreate them but in exchange Enchanter charm especially should be nerfed pre-Kunark. Once Kunark launches it's fine, leave it as it is, but to account for the corrected bugs we shouldn't be letting Enchanter trivialize classic in a way that never happened on live. Otherwise no matter what class you play, no matter what you do, Enchanter is ruining the classic experience because they can solo farm dungeon items and flood the economy, they trivialize grouping using backstabbing pets, and they trivialize planar raids using charmed pets.

It's like that other person who in response to me saying Enchanter sucked in classic era pre-Kunark said they played an Enchanter starting in Kunark and it was a powerful class. People are just retarded I guess I can't help that. I'm probably retarded too for talking to them anymore.

[Tunabros]

Game was hard in 2001 = game should be hard now

[unsunghero]

they attacked group members

I don’t remember this from classic but again I didn’t play a lot, but regardless that’s fucking hilarious if it happened

Oh man the shit I could say in group chat. “Why’d you keep making prolonged eye contact with it? Yknow he doesn’t like that shit” or maybe a line from Christmas vacation “Yknow Clark once he starts trying to hump you like that sometimes it’s safest to just let him finish”

[Tewaz]

So you have a raging hardon to nerf Enchanters for 9 months on the next server that launches?

Jesus

[cd288]

He never quits.

It has nothing to do with "muh game knowledge." Enchanter was the least popular class because it was broken. The evidence is already compiled in the bug forum. The only question, if he was mature enough to admit the truth, is if P99 should recreate pet bugs or not during the classic period before Kunark.

Anyone who played classic remembers people hating ALL pet classes and telling them not to summon a pet in groups especially indoors. The pets fell through the world, they aggro mobs through walls, they randomly ran away from the group, they attacked group members, and so on. This is all supported in patch notes, archived in era player posts, class guides, and more. Necro was the only good pet class and it was an OP solo master class that didn't even need a group. If their pet fell through the world they just feigned.

Enchanter's charm pet was even worse than other pets in this regard as you can imagine. This guy just can't admit it though even in the face of overwhelming evidence he just repeats his "muh game knowledge" lies. Even beyond the pet and charm stuff, I also showed him classic era class guides which outline the exact same mechanics people on P99 use. This wasn't secret knowledge. Live had probably 100x as many players during classic. People figured things out and quickly. The things they didn't figure out were how to deal with the endless bugs.

It would be rather silly and maybe a bit extreme to recreate bugs like your pet randomly falling through the zone, warping to the zone safe spot, and then running back to you getting aggro and dying and training the entire zone. My only argument was that it's fine to fix those bugs and not recreate them but in exchange Enchanter charm especially should be nerfed pre-Kunark. Once Kunark launches it's fine, leave it as it is, but to account for the corrected bugs we shouldn't be letting Enchanter trivialize classic in a way that never happened on live. Otherwise no matter what class you play, no matter what you do, Enchanter is ruining the classic experience because they can solo farm dungeon items and flood the economy, they trivialize grouping using backstabbing pets, and they trivialize planar raids using charmed pets.

It's like that other person who in response to me saying Enchanter sucked in classic era pre-Kunark said they played an Enchanter starting in Kunark and it was a powerful class. People are just retarded I guess I can't help that. I'm probably retarded too for talking to them anymore.

So wait now you’re moving the goalposts from “I HAVE ALL THIS EVIDENCE THAT CHARM ISNT WORKING PROPERLY ON P99 AND NEEDS A CODING CHANGE” to “well okay Charm is working the way it did in classic but muhhhh pet pathing was glitchy because the SoE devs didn’t code it properly. so we should nerf other aspects of Enchanter because those bugs don’t exist on P99”?

Lol what are you even smoking dude lol

As far as game knowledge goes, I was CSR back in 1999. The availability of online resources for the first several months of the game and the amount of knowledge exchange was quite limited. People absolutely started doing these things in era, which was something I totally agreed with you on, but “in era” includes Kunark. By the time Kunark released you had a lot of Enchanters. Also you can’t seem to stick to one argument; first you argue that no one played enchanters at all until like Luclin, and then you’ll switch and start arguing that people played Enchanters in the old world 1999 era.

[cd288]

Also, for quite awhile people didn’t want pets in groups because they thought they took exp from group members. That’s one of the reasons why people asked people to dismiss pets lol.

[Gustoo]

They were also out of control.

But you’re right, I remember that suspicion.

[azxten]

So wait now you’re moving the goalposts from “I HAVE ALL THIS EVIDENCE THAT CHARM ISNT WORKING PROPERLY ON P99 AND NEEDS A CODING CHANGE” to “well okay Charm is working the way it did in classic but muhhhh pet pathing was glitchy because the SoE devs didn’t code it properly. so we should nerf other aspects of Enchanter because those bugs don’t exist on P99”?

Lol what are you even smoking dude lol

As far as game knowledge goes, I was CSR back in 1999. The availability of online resources for the first several months of the game and the amount of knowledge exchange was quite limited. People absolutely started doing these things in era, which was something I totally agreed with you on, but “in era” includes Kunark. By the time Kunark released you had a lot of Enchanters. Also you can’t seem to stick to one argument; first you argue that no one played enchanters at all until like Luclin, and then you’ll switch and start arguing that people played Enchanters in the old world 1999 era.

You play an elf?

[hagglebaby]

ITT: raging hardon
Also ITT: 11 and 12 year olds

Rnf delivers again

[Swish]

I was CSR back in 1999.

Name/server?

[Chortles Snortles]

MY UNCLE WORKS AT ROGEAN

[Toxigen]

so yeah lets make everything as unplayable and broken as it was in 2001 because muh "shits classic"

good thing the staff arent gonna listen to this loon

[azxten]

you’re moving the goalposts from “I HAVE ALL THIS EVIDENCE THAT CHARM ISNT WORKING PROPERLY ON P99 AND NEEDS A CODING CHANGE”

good thing the staff arent gonna listen to this loon

https://y.yarn.co/b812afa4-267f-46ff-9b2d-b72d5aa492ac_text.gif

[unsunghero]

I’m going to post this quote here since I believe the poster meant it for this thread:


Necros are way more exciting and enjoyable to play than enchanters, imo. I've leveled both to 60 and I did enjoy the soloing aspect of a chanter more than grouping due to the non-stop attention required and your group members don't expect you to take small breaks. Keeping hastes up alone are taxing with 3 melee in the group and the attention focus required is absolute if you don't want to wipe the group.

Enchanters are the real Assassins of the server, not rogues. They infiltrate unnoticed (pacify) and snipe targets, then get out. They are very efficient at doing that. They're also extremely boring, there's no nuance or variations, just the same recipe. It's like eating mashed potatoes every day all day for the rest of your life.

Necros on the other hand have to change tactics based on mobs / environment and the playstyle is way more diversified. Simply put, it's more rewarding and enjoyable playing a necro and you can break whenever you feel like it with FD.

Leave enchanters alone and play what you enjoy the most

It’s more of a personal problem, but I lately have been torn as to whether I should dump the pp I have saved (will probably need to continue to save obviously too) on high lev enc spells such as bedlam, or switch to necro and use it instead on its later game spells (obviously some like emissary of Thule are ridic expensive and thus out of reach)

I still enjoy charm soloing but I agree with this poster that I probably would not like late-game grouping with enc. I already semi-committed to chanter somewhat by buying jboots though

[BurtMacklinFBI]

i leveled 1-50 at the start of green healing a fucking naked ench's animation while wearing full rubicite. we were like the 3rd 50 of each class. enchs will be fine to level.

[Tunabros]

people probably wont be even notice a thing lol

[starkind]

It's still worth the effort, I enjoyed reading about it on the bug report, its' pretty neat and nice to think about and at least the code is there if i made a custom server I would put it in, maybe tweak it a bit

[starkind]

it would also explain why hitspam could desync/crash ppl and zones etc

[BurtMacklinFBI]

people probably wont be even notice a thing lol

with no cha gear early on charming is absolute ass anyway. and no clarity for the first few months means you are medding forever if you try it.

way easier to just get up a jobober and find a friend to drop some heals on it. does fine damage with haste and slowed mobs. that wont be nerfed so they are going to be fine.

[azxten]

with no cha gear early on charming is absolute ass anyway. and no clarity for the first few months means you are medding forever if you try it.

way easier to just get up a jobober and find a friend to drop some heals on it. does fine damage with haste and slowed mobs. that wont be nerfed so they are going to be fine.

CHA gear isn't supposed to effect charm, it has minimal to no effect and maybe even a negative effect. We won't have to argue over the evidence in the bug reports soon I'm just reverse engineering the charm function from a year 2000 client.

https://i.imgur.com/90qFVi9.png

https://i.imgur.com/wwr6CXh.png

[Disease]

CHA gear isn't supposed to effect charm, it has minimal to no effect and maybe even a negative effect. We won't have to argue over the evidence in the bug reports soon I'm just reverse engineering the charm function from a year 2000 client.

https://i.imgur.com/90qFVi9.png

https://i.imgur.com/wwr6CXh.png

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318170

[Disease]

https://thesafehouse.org/forums/forum/everquest-wing/main-lounge/7378-enchanters-and-charisma

You can Google charisma EQ and find tons and tons of info and tests people have done in classic era. Also the top link was someone pulling quotes from the guy who created the charm code for classic EQ.

[starkind]

let him enjoy naming functions !

[Chortles Snortles]

trust me guys i made it to level 8 during live
(LOL)

[Disease]

CHA gear isn't supposed to effect charm, it has minimal to no effect and maybe even a negative effect. We won't have to argue over the evidence in the bug reports soon I'm just reverse engineering the charm function from a year 2000 client.

https://i.imgur.com/90qFVi9.png

https://i.imgur.com/wwr6CXh.png

A negative effect on charm... Because people with no charisma are usually charming people right? Lol

[azxten]

https://thesafehouse.org/forums/forum/everquest-wing/main-lounge/7378-enchanters-and-charisma

You can Google charisma EQ and find tons and tons of info and tests people have done in classic era. Also the top link was someone pulling quotes from the guy who created the charm code for classic EQ.

I mean your links just confirm what I said.

[starkind]

https://i.imgur.com/n6fAS8C.jpeg

[sydbarrett25]

trust me guys i made it to level 8 during live
(LOL)

I actually made it to level 6 on a druid on live.

[mycoolrausch]

Huge change for a server populated exclusively by people who log in one of their 5 pre parked 60 alts for 10 minutes for batphones.

[AenorVZ]

Well done I hope your fixes are in for Purple beta.

[azxten]

Well done I hope your fixes are in for Purple beta.

Me too and that's all I'd really hope or care about. I'm less interested in the channeling mechanic and more interested in the impact it would have on a fresh server. Green and Blue are too far gone now even though this would change the meta quite a bit it wouldn't undo the damage and fix the mudflation that already happened.

[Chortles Snortles]

who knows, maybe you’ll even make it to level 9 next time!!!
(lol)

[Tewaz]

A bat killed my level 2 Paladin in 2000 outside FP. Please make bats double attack and raise their level range to 3-5 instead of 1.

Thank you for my new fresh server.

[Gustoo]

CHA gear isn't supposed to effect charm, it has minimal to no effect and maybe even a negative effect. We won't have to argue over the evidence in the bug reports soon I'm just reverse engineering the charm function from a year 2000 client.

https://i.imgur.com/90qFVi9.png

https://i.imgur.com/wwr6CXh.png


When you say a y2k client what do you mean? A user client? Aka what you get from installation disks?

Or somehow a server client? I thought that was lost.

Curious what you’re working with

[cd288]

Me too and that's all I'd really hope or care about. I'm less interested in the channeling mechanic and more interested in the impact it would have on a fresh server. Green and Blue are too far gone now even though this would change the meta quite a bit it wouldn't undo the damage and fix the mudflation that already happened.

You don’t play on P99 so why care lol

[AenorVZ]

A bat killed my level 2 Paladin in 2000 outside FP. Please make bats double attack and raise their level range to 3-5 instead of 1.

Thank you for my new fresh server.

I like your commitment to the classic experience.

[Valik1016]

I really get a laugh reading these posts supporting nerfing character mechanics because they say they want more difficulty and more of the classic experience. Then they create a character and immediately transfer thousands of plat, bags of spells, armor, weapons, etc...to that character. You want classic difficulty? Start a new character with nothing like you're supposed to do. Not one item or copper transferred. And don't get yourself power leveled, you lazy bums. Play the game. Find groups. Socialize. You don't like the game enough to do all that? Maybe EQ isn't the game for you. If you want to play solo all the time, perhaps Diablo or Skyrim are more your style. Maybe instead of changing the game mechanics that everyone uses to suit you, try changing you to suit the game the way it is for everyone.

[Tewaz]

I really get a laugh reading these posts supporting nerfing character mechanics because they say they want more difficulty and more of the classic experience. Then they create a character and immediately transfer thousands of plat, bags of spells, armor, weapons, etc...to that character. You want classic difficulty? Start a new character with nothing like you're supposed to do. Not one item or copper transferred. And don't get yourself power leveled, you lazy bums. Play the game. Find groups. Socialize. You don't like the game enough to do all that? Maybe EQ isn't the game for you. If you want to play solo all the time, perhaps Diablo or Skyrim are more your style. Maybe instead of changing the game mechanics that everyone uses to suit you, try changing you to suit the game the way it is for everyone.

This exactly. The game is as classic as you want it to be.

Also, twinking is the true end game of EQ, so let people play the end game.

[cd288]

I really get a laugh reading these posts supporting nerfing character mechanics because they say they want more difficulty and more of the classic experience. Then they create a character and immediately transfer thousands of plat, bags of spells, armor, weapons, etc...to that character. You want classic difficulty? Start a new character with nothing like you're supposed to do. Not one item or copper transferred. And don't get yourself power leveled, you lazy bums. Play the game. Find groups. Socialize. You don't like the game enough to do all that? Maybe EQ isn't the game for you. If you want to play solo all the time, perhaps Diablo or Skyrim are more your style. Maybe instead of changing the game mechanics that everyone uses to suit you, try changing you to suit the game the way it is for everyone.

Well Az can’t do any of that because he doesn’t actually play on P99. But I support your general sentiment

[starkind]

Naw ur supposed to twink, like mid level gear tho. Or dark forge and a dark reaver.

Not fungi and BiS gear. Or velious armor.

[Kief]

imagine if this assten guy put this much effort into his real life.

dude would be president. holy fuck

[starkind]

kief u like wheel of times lesbian kiss scene a lot dontchu

u should have voted for hillary/harris 2024

[AenorVZ]

No on screen chemistry. Kit Harington married Rose Leslie.

[Whale biologist]

kief u like wheel of times lesbian kiss scene a lot dontchu

u should have voted for hillary/harris 2024

I saw that and was like "there's no way that's real. These ladies are at least 50 and most lesbian couples experience bed death by 10 years."

[starkind]

Agreed. I think that's pretty normal for every relationship when sex is routine

To be fair, they're probably even older. Probably only get to see eachother once every 50 years, probably only had sex like 3x ever. Don't get to hang out a lot eating pizza n netflix.

[starkind]

Agreed. I think that's pretty normal for every relationship when sex is routine

To be fair, they're probably even older. Probably only get to see eachother once every 50 years, probably only had sex like 3x ever. Don't get to hang out a lot eating pizza n netflix.

Also they're ageless so maybe their hormones stay super duper strong.