Solution to List Camp Problems

[this user was banned]

Rare drop list camps like Holgresh Elder Beads can take many hours sometimes days to get to the first position. There have been times when a SINGLE drop has taken 24 hours alone.

The AFK checks in the current system are horrible for these long camps, because of how long they can take. If an emergency comes up or you nod off at your computer, you potentially lose countless hours of work.

This causes people to either not sleep for hours on end or share accounts with others and work in shifts.

(Sharing accounts should not technically be allowed here, because it wasn't allowed in classic based on the Terms of Service.)

My proposal is that we have a system that uses /random and adds a bonus number to your result based on a factor such as the number of hours you have been there or the number of drops you failed to win. The person with the highest random wins the loot and their random bonus is reset. I believe a similar player run system was already successfully used for the Hierophant's Cloak camp.

The AFK checks can, and probably should remain, however if you failed the AFK check and were dropped from the list camp, your random number bonus will be saved for when you join the list again.

Fine tuning this random number bonus is important. It could effectively be the same as the original list camp if each hour spent added a bonus that effectively put newcomers out of range. At some point, even if you have really bad luck, you will eventually win.

Lets say for instance the random was 0-1000 and every hour it adds 100 to your roll. If you were at the camp for 5 hours and rolled a 744 and someone new comes along and joins the camp and rolls at 989, your roll would be 1244 and theirs would still be 989. You win the loot, and rightfully earned it because you put in more time at the camp than the other person. Now if your luck is horrible and you've been at the camp for 20 hours and other people on the list were there only for 8 hours, then you would effectively be first on the list and would win the next drop.

This would be a much healthier system that would be more accessible for people that put in their time at the camp. It effectively creates a persistent list order that lets people put in the work for the camp and also lets them sleep.

What's stopping a hoard of people just showing up for their chance at a drop? Time. If you put in the hours, you will eventually win. This, to me seems fair, and I feel that's what people want, to be rewarded for their time instead of being screwed over by real life.

Why would someone fresh bother coming to the camp with 0 hours invested while there's people there with 10+ hours invested? This is no different than joining the current list camp when there are a dozen people on it. Why bother, in the current list system, if the list is up to 20 people, and you know it's going to take 40+ hours which you know you can't manage? This new system at least gives you a way to win and rewards you for your effort.

Is there any hopes of this system possibly being implemented before the list camps are gone? Or if there is a new version of the green server added down the road could it be implemented there?

[eqravenprince]

The solution to camp problems is instancing, but that bothers the hardcore douchebags out there. I don't even bother camping anything that is in that much demand.

[Scalem]

The solution to legacy list camps is to make the items NO DROP. You'll thin out most of the neckbeard plat farmers that way.

[this user was banned]

Neither of you read my post did you?

Instancing and other non-classic changes are not needed at all...

[Arvan]

Neither of you read my post did you?

Instancing and other non-classic changes are not needed at all...

/list and also your post are all non-classic.

Hope this helps

[Tewaz]

It needs to be changed but it won't.

It isn't classic, these servers aren't classic, none of us are classic players.

Just make these items not disappear, server is the same if there are 100 mana stones or 100k mana stones.

[this user was banned]

/list and also your post are all non-classic.

Hope this helps

I'm well aware of that.

Propose a better solution, get shitposted. welcome to forumquest...

[this user was banned]

It needs to be changed but it won't.

It isn't classic, these servers aren't classic, none of us are classic players.

Just make these items not disappear, server is the same if there are 100 mana stones or 100k mana stones.

We all know its not classic at this point, /list is a compromise.

What about what I suggested won't work?

[eqravenprince]

Neither of you read my post did you?

Instancing and other non-classic changes are not needed at all...

I read it, didn't like it. The answer is instancing.

[eqravenprince]

We all know its not classic at this point, /list is a compromise.

What about what I suggested won't work?

How in the hell would you keep track of how many hours you've been there or how many rolls you've lost? What's stopping me from porting in before the spawn, rolling, getting my random bonus and leaving. Too many holes to your logic and impossible to implement.

[fortior]

If you can't pull off one 40 hour continuous camp you don't deserve EQ loot

[Soothsayer]

If you can't pull off one 40 hour continuous camp you don't deserve EQ loot

40 hours is nothing. That's less than two days.

[Baler]

I know who OP is, it's interesting the direction they've taken their forum posting.

The List system was a solution to the problem of specific players and specific guilds manipulating the system. Of course we all knew the ways around /list and it's proven to become reality.

[this user was banned]

How in the hell would you keep track of how many hours you've been there or how many rolls you've lost? What's stopping me from porting in before the spawn, rolling, getting my random bonus and leaving. Too many holes to your logic and impossible to implement.

You log it in a database.

Porting in to get bonus? It’s a rare drop off a rare spawn that doesn’t live longer than the time it takes to zone in.

Don’t like it then get rid of the bonus and leave it to number hours spent at camp

Just piggyback off the afk system and log every afk check as a bonus.

There’s no holes. Again this has already been done by players for the hierophant camp with a Google spreadsheet.

It’s not impossible to implement. Why are you so pessimistic and hostile to this idea?

[this user was banned]

I know who OP is, it's interesting the direction they've taken their forum posting.

The List system was a solution to the problem of specific players and specific guilds manipulating the system. Of course we all knew the ways around /list and it's proven to become reality.

Account sharing via Remote Desktop. No passwords even have to be shared. I’ve heard from some people that share accounts and let their friend play a few hours while they sleep.

It doesn’t have to be this way.

At least with this system everyone can actually get a chance if they put in the time.

[Domo]

its the last /list camp on green and will be gone sooner or later. I think its to late for changes.

Having said that, I think it would be better if #1 of a loot list would be next in line who gets loot rights to loot the mob who drops the list item. And it dosent matter if the item drops or not. So if you would camp the beads for example and are #1,then you're the next who have the loot rights to loot an elder. Once you looted the elder you drop off the list but have the option to join the list right back.
On this way there would be more randomes, more activ people clearing the camp, chance for casual players to win a list item.

My english sucks but I hope ya know what I am trying to say.

[gobby day]

The main problem with the beads list is that the MAJORITY of people on it are low/no activity and just sitting there passing afk checks until its their turn to loot. It would move a lot faster if people stayed active but most people are farming this to $ell so they don't care how long they have to afk there to get it.

[JayDee]

Probably wasting your time expecting them to formulate a new way of handling lists before legacy items are removed

[Seducio]

Lists were designed to reduce staff involvement in those legacy camps. From that perspective /List is a success.

As a function of whether players like /List or not, the population of the server over time has the data to answer that.

[this user was banned]

Lists were designed to reduce staff involvement in those legacy camps. From that perspective /List is a success.

As a function of whether players like /List or not, the population of the server over time has the data to answer that.

The population doesn’t say whether or not people like the current list system. I’m not sure how you are making those implications.

The current system is demonstrably unhealthy, and promotes account sharing which I don’t think is against the server rules, but probably should be, just like it was in classic.

You’d be hard pressed to find someone that actually enjoys multiple days of sleep deprivation which is required for some camps. Go to the holgresh beads camp right now and ask anyone on the list if they enjoy it, let me know who you find that actually does.

Regardless, providing a system that is seriously flawed and physically unhealthy goes beyond the question of whether or not people like it. If you enjoy hurting yourself and cheating, by all means go ahead.

There’s a simple and healthier alternative, and if it’s a matter of staff not having the time to implement it, then hell, I’ll code it for them.

[Tewaz]

We all know its not classic at this point, /list is a compromise.

What about what I suggested won't work?

There would be 100's of players in the zone.

[blindedsoul]

I have a simple solution that would resolve the majority of our issues without hurting the current system too much.

Create a log for minutes spent in camp when you join a /list and allow people to log out. Afterwards allow them to rejoin the list with their minutes at the second loot spot in camp.

Would be a lot healthier for the general player base to be able to get some sleep without afk checking 35-60+ hours.

[loramin]

I think trying to prioritize people who've waited longer is 100% unclassic, and also 100% unnecessary.

Imagine this: typing /list puts you in a queue, but NOT for the mob. Instead, you're listing for a chance to be next after the current camp holder.

When the current camp holder gets their item there's a roll with everyone on the list, and they all have a chance to be next. Whoever wins waits for their mob to spawn, and everyone goes back to listing.

It's simple, and easy for our devs to implement. It solves all the problems with account sharing because account sharing doesn't help. It solves the problem with not sleeping because you can take a break to sleep and not be any farther behind because of it.

And most importantly of all, it restores classic EverQuest, or at least as much as possible for something that can never be truly classic again: it once again makes getting the best items in the game a combination of luck and patience ... just as they were back in '99-'01.

[Graahle]

restores classic EverQuest

TAKP has entered the chat with its Title belt

[this user was banned]

I think trying to prioritize people who've waited longer is 100% unclassic, and also 100% unnecessary.

Imagine this: typing /list puts you in a queue, but NOT for the mob. Instead, you're listing for a chance to be next after the current camp holder.

When the current camp holder gets their item there's a roll with everyone on the list, and they all have a chance to be next. Whoever wins waits for their mob to spawn, and everyone goes back to listing.

It's simple, and easy for our devs to implement. It solves all the problems with account sharing because account sharing doesn't help. It solves the problem with not sleeping because you can take a break to sleep and not be any farther behind because of it.

And most importantly of all, it restores classic EverQuest, or at least as much as possible for something that can never be truly classic again: it once again makes getting the best items in the game a combination of luck and patience ... just as they were back in '99-'01.

I will admit that your suggestion isn't that bad of an alternative.

However, you seem to be advocating we enforce players behave 'classically' while playing. That's irrelevant, it's like saying the meta of enchanters using charm pets all the time in groups is not classic. It's a living game, the content is classic, but the players are not. People no longer crowd Lake of Ill Omen, the Hole is massively crowded (unclassic ZEM?), which is not classic. Should we enforce zone quotas to make the game more classic?

No thanks.

Why do we have to tell people to play the game like they did back in 1999? This is no different. Just because players ran lists a certain way back then, if at all, doesn't mean we have to do it the same way today does it?

Again, people are already doing exactly what I suggested on Green at the Hierophant cloak camp, should we ban them for trying to be fair instead of using the basic list queue?

[fortior]

And most importantly of all, it restores classic EverQuest,

delete the p99 wiki or never talk about how much you want things to be classic again.

[Seducio]

The population doesn’t say whether or not people like the current list system. I’m not sure how you are making those implications.

The current system is demonstrably unhealthy...

It's almost as if you have Stockholm syndrome.

[loramin]

However, you seem to be advocating we enforce players behave 'classically' while playing. That's irrelevant, it's like saying the meta of enchanters using charm pets all the time in groups is not classic. It's a living game, the content is classic, but the players are not. People no longer crowd Lake of Ill Omen, the Hole is massively crowded (unclassic ZEM?), which is not classic. Should we enforce zone quotas to make the game more classic?

No thanks.

Why do we have to tell people to play the game like they did back in 1999? This is no different. Just because players ran lists a certain way back then, if at all, doesn't mean we have to do it the same way today does it?

Again, people are already doing exactly what I suggested on Green at the Hierophant cloak camp, should we ban them for trying to be fair instead of using the basic list queue?

Look in the upper left-hand corner of your screen.

[JDFriend99]

They are claiming that 2 rogues have been pickpocketing beads for days at /list camp.

Id like someone to notify staff it is being said that #1 has been passing off pick pocketed beads for hours on end on one session.

GM's maybe have a look at Ishpan and few others. The ooc is blown up with claims they saw pickpocketed beads.

[zanderklocke]

They are claiming that 2 rogues have been pickpocketing beads for days at /list camp.

Id like someone to notify staff it is being said that #1 has been passing off pick pocketed beads for hours on end on one session.

GM's maybe have a look at Ishpan and few others. The ooc is blown up with claims they saw pickpocketed beads.

That's actually really funny.

I wonder if all of those beads would/will get deleted if true.

Also, there is no way rogues would actually be able to get away with this if they were doing it on multiple sets of beads; they had to have realized they would get caught.

[Izmael]

Because Rogean is totally looking forward to revamping a complex system involving extensive server-side code modding that happens to work well and fill its purpose perfectly.

Its purpose being "not allowing a few neckbeards to control the camp for however long it will drop, but rather spread the loots among the player base somewhat".

[Man0warr]

I'd just remove /list from Beads. It doesn't really solve the purpose of not having to involve GMs since the camp is server wide - as of now it's hindering the amount of beads coming into the server.

[fastboy21]

There are a number of solutions that might help.

You can actually stop players from account sharing, or at least make it much much harder.

You can change the AFK timer system...if you are number 30 on the list you could be required to AFK check less frequently, for example. You can even make it so that if you are super high on the list (say number 150) you don't even have to be local or possibly even online. I actually like this one most because it mimics the live game play of having to stand around semi-afk for 2 days at some camps just hoping to get invited into the group/get the camp for yourself...

You can increase the time it takes to re-enter the queue for droppable items and make it IP based, not account or character.

You can modify these settings to fit the needs of particular camps (group, solo, droppable or not, lore or not) including setting the rules differently for a period of time after launch of an expansion.

We're really looking at a system that works well-enough for most camps...but is really wretched for a couple very specific drops at very specific times in the server life cycle. The solution might need to tailor response to those "problem" camps/times.

[fastboy21]

Because Rogean is totally looking forward to revamping a complex system involving extensive server-side code modding that happens to work well and fill its purpose perfectly.

Its purpose being "not allowing a few neckbeards to control the camp for however long it will drop, but rather spread the loots among the player base somewhat".

The whole point of this thread is that some folks don't think it working "perfectly" --- if we all agreed with that argument premise then nobody would be suggesting improvements. I agree with you that Rogean/Nilbog and other Devs can't be expected to work infinitely for our free entertainment. Anyone coming at the problem that way is horribly immature, but I don't think that's what folks are doing in these threads --- at least not for the most part.

I think I've seen lots of long time supporters of the server point out ways to improve the system...it isn't jealous neck-beards looking for free pixels.

[cd288]

There are a number of solutions that might help.

You can actually stop players from account sharing, or at least make it much much harder.

You can change the AFK timer system...if you are number 30 on the list you could be required to AFK check less frequently, for example. You can even make it so that if you are super high on the list (say number 150) you don't even have to be local or possibly even online. I actually like this one most because it mimics the live game play of having to stand around semi-afk for 2 days at some camps just hoping to get invited into the group/get the camp for yourself...

You can increase the time it takes to re-enter the queue for droppable items and make it IP based, not account or character.

You can modify these settings to fit the needs of particular camps (group, solo, droppable or not, lore or not) including setting the rules differently for a period of time after launch of an expansion.

We're really looking at a system that works well-enough for most camps...but is really wretched for a couple very specific drops at very specific times in the server life cycle. The solution might need to tailor response to those "problem" camps/times.

You can't prevent account sharing in any feasible way. If you were to say one IP per account, people will just spoof the IP of the account holder whenever they are on the character.

They could also spoof the machine ID of the account holder if you wanted to go the one comp per account route.

[strongNpretty]

Some of this community makes me really really really fucking sad...

[drackgon]

Some of this community makes me really really really fucking sad...

Dude you and me both. I really like p99. And love my guildies and those on my huge /friends list. But Jesus humans generally the worst. And the 5% on this server are that clearly garbage, and so damn selfish. I really wish GMs would just ban their IP. And what I mean by garbage. Is clearly the rogues who stole beads, and peeps who helped them. Those who clearly break PnP rules. get suspended. Come back and rinse and repeat. Green had a good shot of being an amazing home. But sadly these 5% really shit on the project as a whole. Peeps defending the rogues. Sickens me just as much as the rogues themselves. Don't get me wrong I can agree its funny. that something like this happened. But to even act like its right. SMH

[Castle2.0]

"If we only lowered GPU prices by $200, I could afford one and it be available at today's quantities."

"If only Disneyland tickets were $100 cheaper, I could go and enjoy it only packed as it is today."

If you make it easier to get in line... more people get in line.

Some people just don't want to pay the price.

Here's some wisdom for ya. Pay the price today so you can pay any price tomorrow.

[loramin]

The question is, is this the "pay any price, no matter how insane (eg. not sleeping for days)" server ... or is this the "re-create classic EverQuest, as best as possible" server?

[kauvian]

Remove legacy camps on g2.0, put out a vendor that sells the items once or twice a year as a plat dump. Listing for items days at a time is completely unhealthy and unclassic. Sadly we will never recreate that “classic” feel with 22 years of information. Make the cost a function of server wealth.

[cd288]

The question is, is this the "pay any price, no matter how insane (eg. not sleeping for days)" server ... or is this the "re-create classic EverQuest, as best as possible" server?

There were days long lines in classic back in the day as I've mentioned in other comments to you. It depended on the server. I had to step in as CSR to settle line list disputes on multiple servers. Other servers didn't really do the player list thing. So, as with many things you mention about the classic experience, it was totally variable depending on which server you were on. It seems your server did not have certain experiences that others did.

Now, how many characters actually stayed in the line for like 48+ hours is a different story. Back then, you didn't have rampant account sharing because people didn't trust each other and would almost never share accounts unless it was a guild bot. So you certainly had people trying to stay the course in the line for a long time, but many would drop out, thus shortening the line. So it's not that player line lists didn't exist on servers for certain items (for example, multiple servers had very long lines for J Boots when they were dropping in Najena), it's that account sharing was not common and so a character's ability to stay the course in a long line was much much lower.

[Ooloo]

I did 18 hours at rubi BP on green, and got guises for two chars both of which took about 14 hours. I seriously thought I was hallucinating at one point, the thought of doing 48hrs+ is just insane, so yeah account sharing definitely makes it much worse for those who don't want to share their accounts.

But there really isn't a good fix due to screen sharing, not to mention if you just have a rl person take over for you while you sleep. So in summary, this game is evil.

[Toxigen]

the solution is to simply not sit in a list camp for 60+ hours

[Ooloo]

the solution is to simply not sit in a list camp for 60+ hours

But.... pixels tho.

[seconds]

Well lets not be naïve here. If someone is going to go through a 60 hour camp, with multiple people and screen sharing involved, I'd also bet dollars to donuts that they are connecting via hotspot with a couple accounts at the same time to maximize their returns.

[RevSaber]

Wtb someone to drag woushi over to this camp.... Oh wait,. Its probably rooted.

[Scalem]

Wtb someone to drag woushi over to this camp.... Oh wait,. Its probably rooted.

It's not and some people have tried but always die like the martyrs they are.

[eqravenprince]

the solution is to simply not sit in a list camp for 60+ hours

Doesn't hurt to say something, but in general this is my attitude.

[fortior]

the solution is to simply not sit in a list camp for 60+ hours

[Fleelord]

I read it, didn't like it. The answer is instancing.

This is a joke. Just ignore this guy.

The solution is to REMOVE the /list and let players manage it like in Droga and other zones.


REMOVE THE LIST!
Allow players to have the chance to port in and kill a holgresh while running to Kael and get a lucky drop. Allow the cave to belong the list only. Allow roamers to be camped by solo players. Allow this server to at least have a REMNANT of classic.

I got suspended for vocalizing my thoughts on this. But this is the solution.

If you see guilds locking down the spawns and the "fun" is being removed for other players, then you slap them on the wrist. Pretty simple. There would have been a lot less petitions over that list mess that's been created. Just the normal people complaining about getting their camp taken or KSed :)

[sajbert]

You can't prevent account sharing in any feasible way. If you were to say one IP per account, people will just spoof the IP of the account holder whenever they are on the character.

They could also spoof the machine ID of the account holder if you wanted to go the one comp per account route.

You could remove the main reason for acc sharing, the fact that /list drops you entirely once you leave it. Thus giving people who account share a massive edge.

The system should have been saving your hours and reset once you got the drop.

[Gustoo]

These "Invest in your EQ Future!!!" camps should not exist.

On live they disappeared from the game before anyone knew they were going away. They were gone and that was it.

On live, new servers did not have these items.

There was no "Okay if I spend this period of my life pharming this, I will have much wealth in game for years to come"

It isn't classic. It's totally fucked. Its a unique super stupid problem that we have only on project 1999.

Fucking cancel it staff.

Cancel the game ruining bullshit. It isn't classic. Its shit.

Fix it please.

[Fammaden]

These "Invest in your EQ Future!!!" camps should not exist.

On live they disappeared from the game before anyone knew they were going away. They were gone and that was it.

On live, new servers did not have these items.

There was no "Okay if I spend this period of my life pharming this, I will have much wealth in game for years to come"

It isn't classic. It's totally fucked. Its a unique super stupid problem that we have only on project 1999.

Fucking cancel it staff.

Cancel the game ruining bullshit. It isn't classic. Its shit.

Fix it please.

Weird red fanatic guy is right about this one. The solution to list camps was never to have these "legacy" items dropping in the first place. Takes the project farther from its core intent than anything it adds to the experience.

[Castle2.0]

There was no "Okay if I spend this period of my life pharming this, I will have much wealth in game for years to come"

Staff is teaching you a life lesson, but you're missing it.

Now, go HODL bitcoin.

[Shac]

Just make these items not disappear, server is the same if there are 100 mana stones or 100k mana stones.

Remove lists by removing legacy items

[Lightbringer55]

Remove lists by removing legacy items
Agreed. They've ruined the economy as well. Fungi tunics are actually going up in price right now which is absurd at this stage.

[cd288]

Agreed. They've ruined the economy as well. Fungi tunics are actually going up in price right now which is absurd at this stage.

I mean I don’t think it’s absurd for a fungi tunic to go up in price sometimes. It’s a matter of supply and demand and a fungi is one of the top items in the classic era.

[Arvan]

Fungi is a top item forever on p99.

Better than manastone since you can actually use it in velious

[Noren]

Just tag "no drop" every legacy item.
Less people in list.
Won't affect economy.

[Izmael]

Now that I grabbed a bunch of those list legacy items, yeah, I agree. You can make them stop dropping now.

[Gustoo]

Staff is teaching you a life lesson, but you're missing it.

Now, go HODL bitcoin.

I'm speaking from experience. I have more than enough money on blue which I haven't logged into for many years just from circlet of shadows that I bought with hard earned casino operations money and account buy / sell / trade profits from when Bob was around. Similar with red, and I did not play green.

But I'm seeing the entire green server timeline cucked out to a handful of "legacy" items which btw is a term that P99 invented. This shit isn't normal and it has ruined the fun of this timeline progression project in a lot of ways.

As a cleric I really like manastone to be in the game, so I think some stupid low chances slot machine like in luclin era is the way to go for this junk which also keeps the value of the platinum in check. But if they want to disappear them completely I would be happy too.

[Fammaden]

Retroactively remove them all.

[Gustoo]

P99 team won't retro remove them.

and the damage is already done to green. The whole vanilla / kunark / now velious transition has been a story of legacy item acquisition for anyone who wants to have lots of in game wealth. I don't need to say it again but it is artificial and bad and p99 staff is in control of this outcome.

[strongNpretty]

Play casually, enjoy the nostalgia and the adventure for what it is, and you'll never run into these weird no lifer problems.... If you beat Project 99, then logoff and quit talking.. You got to enjoy your experience, now let us enjoy ours. Move onto another game for pete's sake. And who the fuck is pete!?!

[Castle2.0]

If you beat Project 99, then logoff and quit talking.. You got to enjoy your experience, now let us enjoy ours. Move onto another game for pete's sake. And who the fuck is pete!?! Check. Enjoy. Apex Legends. No idea.

Just back for some forum nostalgia.

[cd288]

P99 team won't retro remove them.

and the damage is already done to green. The whole vanilla / kunark / now velious transition has been a story of legacy item acquisition for anyone who wants to have lots of in game wealth. I don't need to say it again but it is artificial and bad and p99 staff is in control of this outcome.

I’d be curious to see what happens on the next Green server. Will people do this all over again or was a lot of it people who just wanted a shot at getting a certain item for the first time and so maybe next server they won’t care.

[Izmael]

Maybe the next green should have no /list camps and no legacy items, with the exception of warder loot.

This way, there's still a "reason to play" for people who want legacy items of some kind, except it only happens at the end of the server's timeline.

Everyone else can enjoy the server's timeline at their own pace, without having the factor in guises and beads and stuff.

[Graahle]

Look at that, more custom change recommendations on a supposedly classic server

[Sabin76]

What would probably make it "more classic" is to have the legacy items in but have them removed at some random day between when they go in and when they were removed in the timeline.

AFAIK, no one knew they were going to be removing those items until they were patched out.

[Agrimir]

Just add an npc on blue that sells these items at a reasonable price (5k-10k.) That should remove the people who only care about those items insofar as how much they'll be worth after removal.

They're already floating around here and there, so who cares if everyone has access to them at that the end of the velious era. Most don't matter anymore, some are nice but break nothing by having it, and others you're expected to have to do your job properly. Like holgresh beads on a monk.

[Fammaden]

Remove legacy camps on g2.0, put out a vendor that sells the items once or twice a year as a plat dump. Listing for items days at a time is completely unhealthy and unclassic. Sadly we will never recreate that “classic” feel with 22 years of information. Make the cost a function of server wealth.

Not the worst idea.

[Castle2.0]

The solution to elf inequality is redistribution of loot.

I am such a genius for being the first to come up with this novel idea.

I shall go to the forums to share my unique utopian idea with my fellow elves.

They shall wonder in amazement at my creativity.

For I have come up with a solution hitherto none other elf has! And it shall work!

Onward!


Learn your elf history. Study the tomes which have recorded previous list legislation which has been discussed in these great elven halls.

You shall see there is no solution that does not create a bigger problem or violate a key elven principle.

[Batty]

its the last /list camp on green and will be gone sooner or later. I think its to late for changes.

Improvements are still worth consideration for P99 Octarine or whatever comes after green.

It might be the last /list camp on green, it is unlikely to be the last /list camp

[Shac]

... SMH

shut up, it's a video game

[Jeni]

If you want to have the best items you need to be dedicated. I've used all of my annual leave and done multiple 40+ hour camps to get the items I wanted. Put in the effort if you really want something not everyone can be a winner. See you on green 2.0 ( I get 4 weeks a year off GL)

[MaCtastic]

I like it.

[Graahle]

It must feel really rewarding using all of your paid leave earned at a desk chair just to sit at another desk chair and play a video game.

[cd288]

Not the worst idea.

The thing is though some servers did have lengthy player run lists (I remember a really long one for Najena JBoots on one server, for example). And generally if you left you were no longer considered part of the list. Certain people did wait on them for days, but it was more rare. And the primary reason it was more rare was because people were super hesitant to do any sort of account sharing at all back then. So you had to do the whole list yourself.

So technically, the idea of a list isn't unclassic, it's just that account sharing allows people to actually complete the list if it's days long.

[loramin]

The thing is though some servers did have lengthy player run lists (I remember a really long one for Najena JBoots on one server, for example). And generally if you left you were no longer considered part of the list. Certain people did wait on them for days, but it was more rare. And the primary reason it was more rare was because people were super hesitant to do any sort of account sharing at all back then. So you had to do the whole list yourself.

So technically, the idea of a list isn't unclassic, it's just that account sharing allows people to actually complete the list if it's days long.

It is unclassic in the sense that the vast, vast majority of servers did not have multi-day lists. I think most reasonable people would agree that in a game with literally hundreds of camps, and more than twenty different live servers ... having a single camp with a single multi-day long line on a single server is not representative.

On virtually every camp in the game, on virtually every server, you were not rewarded for sitting in-game for 24+ hours. To put it another way, for 99.99+% of all classic players' playtime, the game did not reward sitting for days ... and therefore it makes absolutely no sense for our emulation of that game work to reward that activity.

[cd288]

It is unclassic in the sense that the vast, vast majority of servers did not have multi-day lists. I think most reasonable people would agree that in a game with literally hundreds of camps, and more than twenty different live servers ... having a single camp with a single multi-day long line on a single server is not representative.

On virtually every camp in the game, on virtually every server, you were not rewarded for sitting in-game for 24+ hours. To put it another way, for 99.99+% of all classic players' playtime, the game did not reward sitting for days ... and therefore it makes absolutely no sense for our emulation of that game work to reward that activity.

I can't really discuss with you because you don't discuss in good faith. You force your opinion out there and then ignore things people say that contradict it. I've had this exact same conversation with you before.

How many servers did you play on in live during the classic era? Because I was CSR on a ton of them in addition to the couple that I played on. And many of those had player made lists for various camps. I wouldn't say there were extensive lists for a thing like Beads, but things like JBoots pre-quest, the AC after, etc. had player made lists on many servers. Often times quite long ones. The only reason that some people didn't spend days on the list was because account sharing wasn't common because people didn't trust each other. If people had trusted each other with their accounts, then you would have seen a character sitting at a camp for days.

As an aside, saying that people didn't sit for more than 24 hours at any camp in the game is crazy talk. Classic EQ is filled with stories of people doing this at certain camps because of how crazy rare some items, spawns, or quest drops were. Think about Hadden and Grimrot as simple examples. Plenty of people have spent more than 24 hours at those camps.

I extensively experienced the majority of EQ's servers in the classic era when combined with CSR and the couple servers I played on. I'm guessing you experienced maybe 5 at absolute most. Quit acting like your experience and opinion is what the rest of classic EQ players experienced. What you experienced is likely not what some other people experienced because it varied by server.

[loramin]

I can't really discuss with you because you don't discuss in good faith. You force your opinion out there and then ignore things people say that contradict it. I've had this exact same conversation with you before.

How many servers did you play on in live during the classic era? Because I was CSR on a ton of them in addition to the couple that I played on. And many of those had player made lists for various camps. I wouldn't say there were extensive lists for a thing like Beads, but things like JBoots pre-quest, the AC after, etc. had player made lists on many servers. Often times quite long ones. The only reason that some people didn't spend days on the list was because account sharing wasn't common because people didn't trust each other. If people had trusted each other with their accounts, then you would have seen a character sitting at a camp for days.

As an aside, saying that people didn't sit for more than 24 hours at any camp in the game is crazy talk. Classic EQ is filled with stories of people doing this at certain camps because of how crazy rare some items, spawns, or quest drops were. Think about Hadden and Grimrot as simple examples. Plenty of people have spent more than 24 hours at those camps.

I extensively experienced the majority of EQ's servers in the classic era when combined with CSR and the couple servers I played on. I'm guessing you experienced maybe 5 at absolute most. Quit acting like your experience and opinion is what the rest of classic EQ players experienced. What you experienced is likely not what some other people experienced because it varied by server.

So is there any evidence of these multi-day long lists in the classic era? Surely someone would have talked about them on a forum?

I'd be especially interested in ones that went even longer than 48 hours, but really anything >24 hours would be interesting.

[Tewaz]

So is there any evidence of these multi-day long lists in the classic era? Surely someone would have talked about them on a forum?

I'd be especially interested in ones that went even longer than 48 hours, but really anything >24 hours would be interesting.

We all know there wasn't because people didn't know the items were being removed.

Also, how strong did people think a manastone, prenerf staff, or elder beads were?

They probably had no idea.

[Kirdan]

They didn't hold the same value/utility on live because they were nerfed and/or outclassed in subsequent expansions.

[zelld52]

They didn't hold the same value/utility on live because they were nerfed and/or outclassed in subsequent expansions.

There was also no idea that the items would be nerfed / removed, so it wasnt a mad dash to grab "legacy" items that at the time weren't legacy.

[Synphul]

So is there any evidence of these multi-day long lists in the classic era? Surely someone would have talked about them on a forum?

I'd be especially interested in ones that went even longer than 48 hours, but really anything >24 hours would be interesting.

I'm sure there's lots of stories where people said they spent 24, 48, or 60 hours at a camp back then but the probability of 'plenty of people' spending 24 hours+ at one camp continuously like /list encourages in the days of dial-up and spotty ISDN lines within the first 3 expansions is hard to swallow. Especially considering, as others have stated, the value of most of these items wasn't really known until after they were removed.

[beargryllz]

The easiest solution is to just not camp these items if you don't want them

You can get along just fine without having a mana stone

[Castle2.0]

Fundamental disagreements and differences in preferences seem to make this a futile debate.

Some people want a "classic look and feel" while others want "classic rules as they were."

Then the "look and feel" has numerous hues which different people ascribe to. We also had different servers with different norms in classic.

Ultimately, the owners of the playground enforce their own rules. You poor elves are at their whim.

[Synphul]

Fundamental disagreements and differences in preferences seem to make this a futile debate.

Some people want a "classic look and feel" while others want "classic rules as they were."

Then the "look and feel" has numerous hues which different people ascribe to. We also had different servers with different norms in classic.

Ultimately, the owners of the playground enforce their own rules. You poor elves are at their whim.

This. It's always been the NilRog show at the end of the day, and they've put out a hell of a product for us all to enjoy for free. If you enjoy playing here, don't forgot to donate so we can have another decade of P99 EQ fun!

[Tewaz]

The other factor is the speed of expansions.

Kunark one year after release, Velious 8 months later, and SoL one year after that.

In 2.5 years your're on the Moon and all these items are a distant memory.

If we're doing perpetual classic servers for the next decade, maybe come up with a better solution.

[cd288]

I'm sure there's lots of stories where people said they spent 24, 48, or 60 hours at a camp back then but the probability of 'plenty of people' spending 24 hours+ at one camp continuously like /list encourages in the days of dial-up and spotty ISDN lines within the first 3 expansions is hard to swallow. Especially considering, as others have stated, the value of most of these items wasn't really known until after they were removed.

You think people didn't know the value of JBoots? Lol

We're not just talking about the current /list items here

[Synphul]

You think people didn't know the value of JBoots? Lol

We're not just talking about the current /list items here

That behavior still wasn't the norm by any stretch. My servers on live had some player made lists (most people made list macros), but it was never people sitting for 24+ hours straight that I experienced or heard about and I was on every EQ forum I found back then. You went down the list seeing if people were on and it was a rare thing to even find the first few people online if it had been more than an hour or two. The list itself might have had enough names on it to be days long, but you'd have to go through tons of names to find who was actually still online when it came time to hand it off. I do remember the AC list would keep you on it even if you logged off for a few hours if it hadn't gotten to you yet, but you could still log off and not lose your place if you were later in the list and not been /tell'd. You weren't locked into your seat or the game. As Loramin said there should be people talking about their 24+ hour-straight Jolt Cola-infused camp sessions all over the forums from the era if it was the norm across any server. You sure see it here. With most peoples' shitty internet it just wasn't even doable for the vast majority of players at the time logistically.

I'm not saying there weren't lists back then, but they were in no way regularly causing what we see here where people are literally glued to their computer for 24-60 hours straight. Anyone doing that on Live was the extreme outlier, whereas here it seems to have become some kind of norm and seems to be contributing to the brain damaged mentality of our community. The current iteration of /list does not embody the spirit or mechanics of old school player-made lists.

[Gustoo]

Agreed only known psychos would do the stuff we talk about as normal here. For reals. I mean on live it was abnormal to get to level 60 too. The emu pop may just be the most hardcore though, the people that want to play to win. Not sure if they brought the culture with them or if its something else. I came for fun but maybe most people came with a bone to pick.

[Tewaz]

There were super long camps on live, but they were for epic weapons.

Epics had no timers associated with them and are no drop.

Legacy item camps are about money. How many people in the lines already have the item? 75-90%? How many have enough to buy the item on green and blue? I'd guess most.

The real solution is leaving them in game or making them no drop or both.

[Ooloo]

Guise is no drop but it was packed at that camp on green. The appeal is having something that you can't get anymore. Box of abukar would be legacy if it didn't drop from a large variety of mobs in different zones. Money is definitely a factor too, but I don't think it's the main appeal.

[fortior]

Guise is no drop but it was packed at that camp on green. The appeal is having something that you can't get anymore. Box of abukar would be legacy if it didn't drop from a large variety of mobs in different zones. Money is definitely a factor too, but I don't think it's the main appeal.

it's definitely the appeal after getting one of them. nobody went to farm 2 guises on the same character, and plenty of people farmed 2+ beads.

make them all lore and no drop

[Tewaz]

You would have to make it lore per IP address. People would still abuse it.