Kriot wants even more charity pixels?

[remen]

-Vadore Riot
11:23 PM Yesterday
Add: “Any Guild or Alliance may kill Dain up to two times in a row without restrictions. Once a Guild or A…”

-Vadore Riot
11:24 PM Yesterday
Add: “Any Guild or Alliance may kill Tormax up to two times in a row without restrictions. Once a Guild or…”

-Vadore Riot
11:24 PM Yesterday
Add: “Any Guild or Alliance may kill Yelinak up to two times in a row without restrictions. Once a Guild o…”

You've gotta be kidding me, do y'all have no pride? All of ToV is already on a charity bag limit system because you guys can't compete. Rather than get better at the game, you want to continue to change the rules of the game...

What is the rational for wanting this, other than you simply can't compete so you want a free mob every third time around. I guess we'll see how you try to spin it, and how strong your politics game is, the game you apparently prefer to play.

[Ludorf]

Riot is now a casual guild ?

[Nexii]

There are more outstanding petitions for city leaders than ToV.

[remen]

There are more outstanding petitions for city leaders than ToV.

What does this have to do with anything?

Also, if Kriot stopped cheating then there wouldn't be outstanding petitions.

[Croco]

You've gotta be kidding me, do y'all have no pride? All of ToV is already on a charity bag limit system because you guys can't compete. Rather than get better at the game, you want to continue to change the rules of the game...

What is the rational for wanting this, other than you simply can't compete so you want a free mob every third time around. I guess we'll see how you try to spin it, and how strong your politics game is, the game you apparently prefer to play.

Says the guild that killed the server first charity vulak. Your favorite GM is the one that originally instituted bag limits maybe you can go cry to him to get them revoked.

[Allishia]

Can we do that class R class C and FFA rotation again? That seemed like it worked well!

[Grumph]

K2C1 hasn’t reduced toxicity.

The solution is… More bagged mobs? More of what hasn’t helped lower the server temperature?

How about K3C1 on existing bagged mobs.

I’m no Elon Musk. But if a process doesn’t seem to work, maybe re-eval the process before expanding the scope?

I’m sure there’s an executive Vp of financial logistics somewhere who disagrees with me.

Maybe an HR manager.


So. Why does K2C1 suck so bad? Because after you compete for a mob and win it once - you’re already staring at the possibility of hitting limit.

You kill a mob? Great. Your reward is you get at most 1 out of next 2 spawns.

K2C1 effectively “feels” like… less.

What would be so so so much better while only changing things by like 10%?

K3C1

Everyone’s thinking it. I’m just saying it.

3 in a row is an achievement. 2 in a row? Well they just gave us the 2nd one.

3 in a row is 100% more fun. To play. (If your guild is active in game and not just at political manipulation).

100% more fun for only 16.6% more mobs? Literally what’s not to love!

Cmon Friends! Let’s reduce some toxicity here!

[xdrcfrx]

bag limits working great. add 'em to city leaders. move to resolved.

(straiker, time to delete.)

[Nexii]

Bag limits on ring war as Vanquish desires would be charity pixels. There have been no ring war petitions since the rule changes.

[Grumph]

Bag limits on ring war as Vanquish desires would be charity pixels. There have been no ring war petitions since the rule changes.


Riot when they want your vote: “Guys let’s make Ring Roll a random! That’ll give each of us a fair shot…”

Riot after they take 99% of Ring 10’s for themselves. Sharing ZERO: “look at how few petitions there are now. Isn’t this better for everyone?”

[Allishia]

Riot when they want your vote: “Guys let’s make Ring Roll a random! That’ll give each of us a fair shot…”

Riot after they take 99% of Ring 10’s for themselves. Sharing ZERO: “look at how few petitions there are now. Isn’t this better for everyone?”

What is the issue with rolling ring war between guilds? Isn't it fair? Don't understand if your being sarcastic or not lol

[ArbiterBlixen]

What is the issue with rolling ring war between guilds? Isn't it fair? Don't understand if your being sarcastic or not lol

He's pointing out that riot pushes for rules that help them gain more free pixels. Not to improve the environment for everyone.

[xdrcfrx]

He's pointing out that riot pushes for rules that help them gain more free pixels. Not to improve the environment for everyone.

The environment is improved for everyone because no one is able to cheat the /random.

[ArbiterBlixen]

The environment is improved for everyone because no one is able to cheat the /random.

He wasn't saying /random vs. Click. He's saying Riot didn't propose bag limits where they are doing well.

[Allishia]

I think they should bring back fte lockouts so small guilds can form again and get things cheap instead of even the crap things going for crazy amounts lol. Wouldn't need 100 ppl zergs if lockout on fte and like an hour to kill it /nod.

[Grumph]

The environment is improved for everyone because no one is able to cheat the /random.


I understand you’d like to believe you have credibility on this topic.

Unfortunately everyone else disagrees.

I’d recommend, step one for you, to publicly take the Oath Against Toxicity and Mind Reading.

Then, having done the absolute bare minimum, people may start to consider your input on topics like this.

(I normally charge about $1,000 per hour for this caliber of advice btw. Your welcome.)

[xdrcfrx]

I understand you’d like to believe you have credibility on this topic.

Unfortunately everyone else disagrees.

I’d recommend, step one for you, to publicly take the Oath Against Toxicity and Mind Reading.

Then, having done the absolute bare minimum, people may start to consider your input on topics like this.

(I normally charge about $1,000 per hour for this caliber of advice btw. Your welcome.)

honor your bet, straiker. time to delete.

[Samoht]

Bag limits on ring war as Vanquish desires would be charity pixels. There have been no ring war petitions since the rule changes.

Ringroll isn't competitive. The problem is that the rolls are obviously just favoring one guild so far. As long as it's not a competitive spawn, it needs to be bag limited to keep people from getting a streak of 3 or more just because of RNG.

[Nexii]

I think they should bring back fte lockouts so small guilds can form again and get things cheap instead of even the crap things going for crazy amounts lol. Wouldn't need 100 ppl zergs if lockout on fte and like an hour to kill it /nod.

Agree it was a way less toxic era due to the meta. But it'd be tough to come up with a safe way to race in NToV while guilds are clearing trash there. I suppose rogues can run up relatively safely...

[Boptop]

Riot and Vanquish should merge, just kick out detoxx.

[k9quaint]

Not going to open discussions on bag limits or roll agreements until Straiker deletes.
No point in forming new agreements until Vanquish abides by current ones.

[Allishia]

Ringroll isn't competitive. The problem is that the rolls are obviously just favoring one guild so far. As long as it's not a competitive spawn, it needs to be bag limited to keep people from getting a streak of 3 or more just because of RNG.

Actually I do agree with this, cause sometimes people are just toooo lucky with randoms /nod

[Horza]

Straiker, show yourself.

[Synphul]

Saying the RNG 'favors' any particular guild is one of the dumbest things I've seen spouted around here. The is no bias in the RNG towards any guild. A winning streak is a winning streak. They could just as easily be on the losing side of that streak.

[remen]

Bag limits on ring war as Vanquish desires would be charity pixels. There have been no ring war petitions since the rule changes.

I'm glad you brought up ring war. As others have mentioned ring war is no longer a competitive situation, just pure dumb luck, so bag limits have no impact on competition there.

Let's also remember that all of the petitions were from Kriot, whining and crying about about losing too much. They cried with baseless accusations of cheating to the GMs so much that the rules got changed to what they are now.

[Samoht]

Saying the RNG 'favors' any particular guild is one of the dumbest things I've seen spouted around here. The is no bias in the RNG towards any guild. A winning streak is a winning streak. They could just as easily be on the losing side of that streak.

I knew there would be some dumbass arguing about the randomness, and yet here we are where a single guild has won almost ever roll.

Please think before you post.

[Synphul]

I knew there would be some dumbass arguing about the randomness, and yet here we are where a single guild has won almost ever roll.

Please think before you post.

So you're saying the RNG is rigged? Otherwise, it's luck currently favoring one guild, not the RNG. Think before you post.

[xdrcfrx]

I'm glad you brought up ring war. As others have mentioned ring war is no longer a competitive situation, just pure dumb luck, so bag limits have no impact on competition there.

Let's also remember that all of the petitions were from Kriot, whining and crying about about losing too much. They cried with baseless accusations of cheating to the GMs so much that the rules got changed to what they are now.

Petitions from Various Guilds Since Last Mutual Raid Suspension in April:

Riot - 5/14 Dagarn (withdrawn); 5/14 Dain; 5/21 Yeli; 6/19 Vulak = 3 (4th withdrawn)

Vanquish (for sake of discussion, FRAG petitions counted here) - 4/17 Silverwing (withdrawn); 4/17 Dain; 4/27 Doze; 5/28 KT = 3 (4th withdrawn)

Kittens - 6/19 Vulak = 1.


Doesn't seem like Riot or Vanq are substantially different here; Kittens not overly involved at all. Vanquish wouldn't be spreading false narratives, would it? Certainly you guys are nothing if not straightforward and honest.

Note how most petitions are over non-ToV mobs since the inception of bag limits.

[Samoht]

So you're saying the RNG is rigged?

Nope, not even close.

it's luck currently favoring one guild

Hey, you basically said the same thing I did! Look at you for acknowledging the issue.

So ringroll needs to be added to bag limits.

[Synphul]

So ringroll needs to be added to bag limits.

Or you could just let the pendulum swing like it should/will with the RNG instead of adding yet another rule to the system. I'm sure you'd be right here asking for bag limits if the streak was to your advantage, too. I guess we'll see when it swings your way.

[remen]

Petitions from Various Guilds Since Last Mutual Raid Suspension in April:

Riot - 5/14 Dagarn (withdrawn); 5/14 Dain; 5/21 Yeli; 6/19 Vulak = 3 (4th withdrawn)

Vanquish (for sake of discussion, FRAG petitions counted here) - 4/17 Silverwing (withdrawn); 4/17 Dain; 4/27 Doze; 5/28 KT = 3 (4th withdrawn)

Kittens - 6/19 Vulak = 1.


Doesn't seem like Riot or Vanq are substantially different here; Kittens not overly involved at all. Vanquish wouldn't be spreading false narratives, would it? Certainly you guys are nothing if not straightforward and honest.

Note how most petitions are over non-ToV mobs since the inception of bag limits.

I was responding to Nexii's post:

"Bag limits on ring war as Vanquish desires would be charity pixels. There have been no ring war petitions since the rule changes."

I knew vanquish never petitioned over a ring war, I didn't know Kriot never filed a formal petition over it. Nexii was misleading by pointing to no petitions since the rule change.

[Samoht]

Or you could just let the pendulum swing like it should/will with the RNG instead of adding yet another rule to the system. I'm sure you'd be right here asking for bag limits if the streak was to your advantage, too. I guess we'll see when it swings your way.

The sample size may be too small for the pendulum to ever swing. Just a few minutes ago you were acting like you understood these things.

Was that just false confidence?

[Synphul]

The sample size may be too small for the pendulum to ever swing. Just a few minutes ago you were acting like you understood these things.

Was that just false confidence?

It also may not be too small to swing. You're assuming the worst case scenario because you're currently not 'favored' and I doubt you'd be here asking for ring roll bag limits if you were winning. You can call me whatever you like, but don't take what I say personally. I decry the addition of layers of new rules in the raid scene from any angle. I'm for balls to the wall watch out for my train while I get FTE raiding at this point in P99's life. I'm not even a huge PvP fan but it sure sounds a lot more fun than what we have now.

[mycoolrausch]

The alternative to bag limits is one guild naturally attracting the most extreme players, thereby locking more mobs to themselves, thereby encouraging everyone else on the server to join that guild.

Basically the job of the server staff is to decide if they want a 1 guild server or not. Competition doesn't really exist because the most extreme players will all congregate in the same guild together as they always have.

[Daloon]

Just sad

[myrddraal]

the real solution is simple. No more natural respawns and only have mobs triggered on GM supervised quakes so you cant say...kite CT for half an hour.

[MaCtastic]

-Vadore Riot
11:23 PM Yesterday
Add: “Any Guild or Alliance may kill Dain up to two times in a row without restrictions. Once a Guild or A…”

-Vadore Riot
11:24 PM Yesterday
Add: “Any Guild or Alliance may kill Tormax up to two times in a row without restrictions. Once a Guild or…”

-Vadore Riot
11:24 PM Yesterday
Add: “Any Guild or Alliance may kill Yelinak up to two times in a row without restrictions. Once a Guild o…”

You've gotta be kidding me, do y'all have no pride? All of ToV is already on a charity bag limit system because you guys can't compete. Rather than get better at the game, you want to continue to change the rules of the game...

What is the rational for wanting this, other than you simply can't compete so you want a free mob every third time around. I guess we'll see how you try to spin it, and how strong your politics game is, the game you apparently prefer to play.

Drugs.

[MaCtastic]

Make P99 competitive; enable /guildwar.

[Croco]

Riot when they want your vote: “Guys let’s make Ring Roll a random! That’ll give each of us a fair shot…”

Riot after they take 99% of Ring 10’s for themselves. Sharing ZERO: “look at how few petitions there are now. Isn’t this better for everyone?”

The only one advocating for a /random ring roll was a member of freedom.

[Wokka]

the real solution is simple. No more natural respawns and only have mobs triggered on GM supervised quakes so you cant say...kite CT for half an hour.

The 20-30min Yelinak and Memblurred Vyemm were pretty funny as well

[myrddraal]

The 20-30min Yelinak and Memblurred Vyemm were pretty funny as well

Sorry you lost KT because you kited CT for half an hour stalling out for him to spawn. If you focused on actually killing him you might have gotten both. Or if you had wiped faster. Remember that time GMs said to do that? Was a gem of a quote.

[Wokka]

Sorry you lost KT because you kited CT for half an hour stalling out for him to spawn. If you focused on actually killing him you might have gotten both. Or if you had wiped faster. Remember that time GMs said to do that? Was a gem of a quote.

Being locked to CT and then dropping all your pets and running off to kill KT was funny as well

[MaCtastic]

Being locked to CT and then dropping all your pets and running off to kill KT was funny as well

Fake news. Cute story though...

[Wokka]

The funniest part is the hypocrisy. You all bitch and moan about things and then go and do what you complain about. Whatever fits your narrative though right.

[MaCtastic]

The funniest part is the hypocrisy. You all bitch and moan about things and then go and do what you complain about. Whatever fits your narrative though right.

The irony. So rich coming from a guild whose motto is “training isn’t cheating” and their leaderships cumulative P99 player faction score is a solid 1 start rating.

Your ability to bend the truth to paint reality in your favor is not as good as you believe. You should stop huffing gas, it’s effects are starting to become obvious.

[Skarne]

All of you are blinded by your hatred for each other. Bunch of sads.

[Ripqozko]

Irony is kittens spamming rnf now, welcome to the autism pool.

[Loke]

I wasn't at CT, but you guys do realize that he has a knock back and fear, right? Pretty normal for CT to bounce around throughout the fight. As long as he was actively engaged on Vanquish's raid, it isn't really a kite.

[MaCtastic]

Irony is kittens spamming rnf now, welcome to the autism pool.

Roll Tide

[Samoht]

So rich coming from a guild whose motto is “training isn’t cheating”

The difference between kiting and training is your control. We kite guards to prevent leap frogging.

We'll leave the training to Kittens and Riot like they did to us on the famous Lady M or this last Vulak.

[MaCtastic]

All of you are blinded by your hatred for each other. Bunch of sads.

I don’t hate Vanquish, we’re pals. They are the same nerds, cut from the same cloth, as each and every other nerd that logs into the same server. It’s obvious they try really hard.

[Grumph]

The irony. So rich coming from a guild whose motto is “training isn’t cheating” and their leaderships cumulative P99 player faction score is a solid 1 start rating.

Your ability to bend the truth to paint reality in your favor is not as good as you believe. You should stop huffing gas, it’s effects are starting to become obvious.


Ok you believe Vanquish has a secret agenda. And a hidden ‘Motto’ to do wrong.

Meanwhile. Y’all are joined at the hip with a guild, who’ve publicly promoted the name “Ngar” as an officer in the UN, and gone on to make multiple public statements about their direct intent to play political games.



Just to reiterate.

You can read your enemies minds and see their hidden evil intentions.

And.

Anything clearly said or done by your friends obviously has an explanation and wasn’t as bad as it looked!


Welcome to the human race Jude.

[MaCtastic]

Ok you believe Vanquish has a secret agenda. And a hidden ‘Motto’ to do wrong.

Meanwhile. Y’all are joined at the hip with a guild, who’ve publicly promoted the name “Ngar” as an officer in the UN, and gone on to make multiple public statements about their direct intent to play political games.



Just to reiterate.

You can read your enemies minds and see their hidden evil intentions.

And.

Anything clearly said or done by your friends obviously has an explanation and wasn’t as bad as it looked!


Welcome to the human race Jude.

There is no agenda, just a bunch of folks trolling and taking the piss on some very immersed players. Ngar is just a character name (same as how Niger is the name of a country and not a nation of racists). Yes there is a guild alliance, as is common during times of mutual, just like AG and Freedom, except there won't be a merger.

You did not hit any of my battleships.

[Boptop]

Ngar please.

[Twochain]

Gee, I wonder why green got a quake, but blue didn’t???

Riot had 0…. Wait, no. Negative 10 inclination to change the meta when blue was a 1 guild server for a full year. So, I personally can’t sympathize with the cries of a soft rotation. What happened to making us “eat this humble pie” and All those tropes as AM was dying? Because truthfully, If k2c1 was a thing back then…. AM would still probably exist. Every attempt to change the meta back then, suggested by us, was immediately scoffed at.

Furthermore, all riot had to do was let detoxx app for 30 days and then kick him, and they would still be happily killing EVERY MOB ON THE SERVER FOR FREE.

K2C1 ensures nothing but that you will have enough people lurking to log on for free dragons.

What Kriot needs isn’t free mobs. You need more members, and less warm bodies. I’m not even being a dick. Tired of your guild losing?? Learn how to do shit to help your guild win mobs. I still have a lot of friends in Riot. Your main problem right now lies in strategy, and getting people to step up to do vital roles to ensure mob kills.

I was sad when AM was dying. A guild once so mighty, reduced to accidentally tellling riot that their tracker fell asleep and that vulak was up, while we sat at entrance with 20 people not able to do a god damn thing about it but watch the other guild kill the mob for free. I remember one quake we had like, 27 people log on and it was just DEPRESSING.

But at the end of the day, it was an impressive thing to band together literally every non AM raider on the server and take down the big dawgs. Equally impressive that almost a year ago today, Riot didn’t let ONE PERSON APPLY TO THEIR GUILD FOR 30 DAYS. The same hated guy that made every guild on the server band together to beat his guild, admitted defeat, and said, hey, I know you guys have hated me for a long time, but I’m not so bad. Imagine a different guild leader.. Bellringer or something, realizing that Tempest was dead, they were beaten, and humbling themselves enough to ask to raid with the guild who beat them for 30 days, and If people still hate me, I’ll gracefully bow out. Would never fucking happen.

So tell me, how does that humble pie taste?

Look, I’m sorry GM’s. I’ve thought about this a lot. The reason blue is so toxic right now is the rooted dragon meta. Blue has always been toxic, but rooted dragons all but guarantees guilds training each other on contested mobs. We need to move to lock outs or just let the guilds figure it out themselves without GM oversight. (If we promised not to petition each other would you unroot them/work with the community to facilitate what they want the Meta to be?)

[Boptop]

so much immersion

[Nexii]

Gee, I wonder why green got a quake, but blue didn’t???

Riot had 0…. Wait, no. Negative 10 inclination to change the meta when blue was a 1 guild server for a full year. So, I personally can’t sympathize with the cries of a soft rotation. What happened to making us “eat this humble pie” and All those tropes as AM was dying? Because truthfully, If k2c1 was a thing back then…. AM would still probably exist. Every attempt to change the meta back then, suggested by us, was immediately scoffed at.

Furthermore, all riot had to do was let detoxx app for 30 days and then kick him, and they would still be happily killing EVERY MOB ON THE SERVER FOR FREE.

K2C1 ensures nothing but that you will have enough people lurking to log on for free dragons.

What Kriot needs isn’t free mobs. You need more members, and less warm bodies. I’m not even being a dick. Tired of your guild losing?? Learn how to do shit to help your guild win mobs. I still have a lot of friends in Riot. Your main problem right now lies in strategy, and getting people to step up to do vital roles to ensure mob kills.

I was sad when AM was dying. A guild once so mighty, reduced to accidentally tellling riot that their tracker fell asleep and that vulak was up, while we sat at entrance with 20 people not able to do a god damn thing about it but watch the other guild kill the mob for free. I remember one quake we had like, 27 people log on and it was just DEPRESSING.

But at the end of the day, it was an impressive thing to band together literally every non AM raider on the server and take down the big dawgs. Equally impressive that almost a year ago today, Riot didn’t let ONE PERSON APPLY TO THEIR GUILD FOR 30 DAYS. The same hated guy that made every guild on the server band together to beat his guild, admitted defeat, and said, hey, I know you guys have hated me for a long time, but I’m not so bad. Imagine a different guild leader.. Bellringer or something, realizing that Tempest was dead, they were beaten, and humbling themselves enough to ask to raid with the guild who beat them for 30 days, and If people still hate me, I’ll gracefully bow out. Would never fucking happen.

So tell me, how does that humble pie taste?

Look, I’m sorry GM’s. I’ve thought about this a lot. The reason blue is so toxic right now is the rooted dragon meta. Blue has always been toxic, but rooted dragons all but guarantees guilds training each other on contested mobs. We need to move to lock outs or just let the guilds figure it out themselves without GM oversight. (If we promised not to petition each other would you unroot them/work with the community to facilitate what they want the Meta to be?)

Bag limits were put in because your guild refuses to sort things out in good faith. Your leadership believes it's okay to train other guilds and play on because... well I'm not too sure exactly. I guess it's some mix of revenge, blaming rooted dragons, and the feeling that rules are dumb. But unrooting the dragons won't fix it. There's more petitions for KT/Dain/Yeli outstanding than all of ToV combined right now.

[Samoht]

your guild refuses to sort things out in good faith. Your leadership believes it's okay to train other guilds and play on because... well I'm not too sure exactly.

Riot trained dain first yesterday. Then demanded Vanquish concede. Then proceeded to train dain AGAIN.

Remind me who is acting in good faith? Remind me who refuses to concede?

[Boptop]

VLM

[Croco]

autistic ramblings & lies with no evidence

Still waiting for you to quote me the rule that says lull pulling is not allowed.

[Loke]

Still waiting for you to quote me the rule that says lull pulling is not allowed.

Shit like this is why you guys are impossible to work with. Always with the lawyer questing and "gotcha" bullshit. You claim Vanquish acts in bad faith, while at the same time doing shit like lull pulling, scale of wolf races, etc...essentially going out of your way to create drama.

Just look at Velk this morning. We saw you guys wiping, backed up the ramp out of aggro range, and then carried on without issue. When the situation was reversed, Riot sat in our camp, cried train when Velk aggro'd them, and demanded concession.

You guys literally seem to go out of your way to create these issues and then acted shocked and offended when we're unwilling to acquiesce to your bullshit.

[Nexii]

Shit like this is why you guys are impossible to work with. Always with the lawyer questing and "gotcha" bullshit. You claim Vanquish acts in bad faith, while at the same time doing shit like lull pulling, scale of wolf races, etc...essentially going out of your way to create drama.

Just look at Velk this morning. We saw you guys wiping, backed up the ramp out of aggro range, and then carried on without issue. When the situation was reversed, Riot sat in our camp, cried train when Velk aggro'd them, and demanded concession.

You guys literally seem to go out of your way to create these issues and then acted shocked and offended when we're unwilling to acquiesce to your bullshit.

Your bard Rorixz tried to camp out at the top of the ramp while you were wiping. He died and trained us.

[Croco]

Shit like this is why you guys are impossible to work with. Always with the lawyer questing and "gotcha" bullshit. You claim Vanquish acts in bad faith, while at the same time doing shit like lull pulling, scale of wolf races, etc...essentially going out of your way to create drama.

Just look at Velk this morning. We saw you guys wiping, backed up the ramp out of aggro range, and then carried on without issue. When the situation was reversed, Riot sat in our camp, cried train when Velk aggro'd them, and demanded concession.

You guys literally seem to go out of your way to create these issues and then acted shocked and offended when we're unwilling to acquiesce to your bullshit.

So you can't quote the rule where lull pulling is disallowed? Cool, good talk.

"Your camp"? You mean the safe spot where everyone sets up for velk? You don't own the zone or the safe spot. You can't train a raid mob onto a guild sitting in the safe/prep spot. Git gud? Wipe faster? Don't train an opposing raid force? Why does quish train so often? Either you're all very bad at this game or it's on purpose.

[Bardp1999]

So you can't quote the rule where lull pulling is disallowed? Cool, good talk.

"Your camp"? You mean the safe spot where everyone sets up for velk? You don't own the zone or the safe spot. You can't train a raid mob onto a guild sitting in the safe/prep spot. Git gud? Wipe faster? Don't train an opposing raid force? Why does quish train so often? Either you're all very bad at this game or it's on purpose.

Sirken:
Foot race FTEs does not mean targeting through walls with BS and FTEing with lull or anything else. This goes against the entire spirit, and purpose of why the rule exists.

Continuing to do this will result in a raid suspension for your guild.

[Croco]

Sirken:
Foot race FTEs does not mean targeting through walls with BS and FTEing with lull or anything else. This goes against the entire spirit, and purpose of why the rule exists.

Continuing to do this will result in a raid suspension for your guild.

Sirken: 6/16/2017 Removed all ToV, Tormax, and Statue rules.

Hope this helps.

[Ripqozko]

Sirken:
Foot race FTEs does not mean targeting through walls with BS and FTEing with lull or anything else. This goes against the entire spirit, and purpose of why the rule exists.

Continuing to do this will result in a raid suspension for your guild.


This was known thing cause vp stick would be OP for dain. It's a known thing not to lull fte for years, to be fair this was before taigam raided and he was just a gleam in someone's eye.

[Bardp1999]

Sirken: 6/16/2017 Removed all ToV, Tormax, and Statue rules.

Hope this helps.

Lull pulling is still disallowed and was not specific to these raid zones

learn to read

[Croco]

This was known thing cause vp stick would be OP for dain. It's a known thing not to lull fte for years, to be fair this was before taigam raided and he was just a gleam in someone's eye.

"Known thing" does not = raid rule. If something is not spelled out as against the rules guess what? It's not against the rules. The thread Bardp is pulling from is specific to Kael and Sirken later removes all rules from that zone. We used a legal method to pull Dain (doesn't reside in Kael) once and quish has been REEEEEE'ing about it ever since. Just because you want something to be against the rules or you think some gentleman's rule exists doesn't make it so. There's a reason we've been leading the charge to try and codify a singular set of raid rules all collected in a single space for reference.

[Samoht]

"Known thing" does not = raid rule. If something is not spelled out as against the rules guess what? It's not against the rules. The thread Bardp is pulling from is specific to Kael and Sirken later removes all rules from that zone. We used a legal method to pull Dain (doesn't reside in Kael) once and quish has been REEEEEE'ing about it ever since. Just because you want something to be against the rules or you think some gentleman's rule exists doesn't make it so. There's a reason we've been leading the charge to try and codify a singular set of raid rules all collected in a single space for reference.

Lull pulling is against the rules. Just because you don't wish to accept it doesn't magically make it not against the rules. It's been quoted to you where it's against the rules. Time to pick a different hill to die on.

[Croco]

Lull pulling is still disallowed and was not specific to these raid zones

learn to read

That post is specific to Kael. He clarifies in his original post in the thread with an edit dated after what you quoted and he removes all the rules from Kael. He also reiterates that all server rules still apply and he links the post for the server rules. Interestingly enough if you do a CTRL+F and search lull you won't find anything. Weird! Learn to read indeed.

[Croco]

Lull pulling is against the rules. Just because you don't wish to accept it doesn't magically make it not against the rules. It's been quoted to you where it's against the rules. Time to pick a different hill to die on.

Can you quote me the rule where it's not allowed? Still waiting. Thanks!

[Ripqozko]

I suggest using vp cancel magic stick for dain then, have fun.

[Samoht]

Can you quote me the rule where it's not allowed? Still waiting. Thanks!

It was quoted to you on the previous page.

Jesus fucking christ, you're dense.

[Croco]

It was quoted to you on the previous page.

Jesus fucking christ, you're dense.

Sirken removed that rule and it's not listed in the server raid rules. Also that rule was specific to Kael.

Hope this helps.

[Bardp1999]

And Galach reinstated them right there at the bottom of the thread. Lull pulling through wall is against the rules dummy

[Croco]

And Galach reinstated them right there at the bottom of the thread. Lull pulling through wall is against the rules dummy

Wrong. Those are new rules, and again no mention of lull. Not against the rules. Not listed in the server raid rules.

New specific rules for Statue/AOW & King Tormax

[Grumph]

Wrong. Those are new rules, and again no mention of lull. Not against the rules. Not listed in the server raid rules.

Precedent of getting banned for using lull to pull solo/group content is very well established.

But if you want to be a bitter clinger to your “actually!” position, more power to ya brother!

[Croco]

Precedent of getting banned for using lull to pull solo/group content is very well established.

But if you want to be a bitter clinger to your “actually!” position, more power to ya brother!

Not against the rules. You all are the ones bitterly clinging to the "REEEEE riot lulled dain!!!! REEEEEE!". We didn't get in trouble for that btw. You know because it's not against the rules.

[Bardp1999]

Sirkens post was to clarify the staffs stance not to institute a new rule

"This goes against the entire spirit, and purpose of why the rules exist. Continuing to do this will result in a raid suspension for your guild."

Doesn't seem very "open to interpretation"

[Nexii]

Precedent of getting banned for using lull to pull solo/group content is very well established.

But if you want to be a bitter clinger to your “actually!” position, more power to ya brother!

Lol precedent means nothing. Only your guild thinks this way. "Well, Riot didn't petition us training them one time so the precedent is training is legal".

[Croco]

Sirkens post was to clarify the staffs stance not to institute a new rule

"This goes against the entire spirit, and purpose of why the rules exist. Continuing to do this will result in a raid suspension for your guild."

Doesn't seem very "open to interpretation"

Seems incredibly open to interpretation considering it was posted in a thread pertaining only to Kael rules and there's nothing in the official raid rules about lull pulling. Even though they've had infinite opportunities to add a carve out for that if they wanted to. Sirken himself could've done it and added it to the official rules many times and didn't do it.

The current staff clearly don't have the same stance and they also haven't added any rules against lull pulling and there was no action taken against riot for lull pulling dain.

Not sure how much clearer the crystal needs to be to understand it's not against the current rules.

[Grumph]

Seems incredibly open to interpretation considering it was posted in a thread pertaining only to Kael rules and there's nothing in the official raid rules about lull pulling. Even though they've had infinite opportunities to add a carve out for that if they wanted to. Sirken himself could've done it and added it to the official rules many times and didn't do it.

The current staff clearly don't have the same stance and they also haven't added any rules against lull pulling and there was no action taken against riot for lull pulling dain.

Not sure how much clearer the crystal needs to be to understand it's not against the current rules.


Thanks for the honesty at least.

Really puts into perspective all the grand standing about how y’all are ‘always trying to do the right thing’

Shamelessly admitting to doing whatever you can get away with, regardless of any concept of fair play, shows your true colors.

[Twochain]

paci pullin, fteing with other guilded toons fuck it no rules 2021

for real i'd definitely have fun in a month with agreed 0 petitions and just whoever gets it down wins. That just would be a fun event.

[myrddraal]

paci pullin, fteing with other guilded toons fuck it no rules 2021

for real i'd definitely have fun in a month with agreed 0 petitions and just whoever gets it down wins. That just would be a fun event.

Petitions without enforcement are meaningless. ATM we are living in your dream until GMs can take care of the plate thats piling higher and higher. Been almost 3 months now since there was any decisions made on raid disputes.

[Croco]

Thanks for the honesty at least.

Really puts into perspective all the grand standing about how y’all are ‘always trying to do the right thing’

Shamelessly admitting to doing whatever you can get away with, regardless of any concept of fair play, shows your true colors.

There is no such thing as a "concept of fair play" on this server. You play by the rules that are laid down. There are no gentleman's agreements, no unwritten rules, this isn't baseball. If it's not spelled out in the rules it's legal, period. That's what the rules are for.

If you think something should be against the rules by all means speak up to your leadership so they can advocate for it and include it in the rules revision that is currently being worked on. Which includes no lull pulling btw.

And yes since you brought it up we are always trying to do the right thing. The "right thing" by definition meaning what's within the rules. I'm sorry if you have some other idea of a bunch of rules that aren't written down anywhere but just because you have some nebulous unwritten rules in your head doesn't mean they hold any water. We aren't bound by what you or any other member of quish thinks is right, only by the rules of the server.

Maybe it's time to study up and familiarize yourself with the actual server rules instead of running to RnF and whining incessantly when some supposed unwritten rule only you know or care about is broken.

[Horza]

paci pullin, fteing with other guilded toons fuck it no rules 2021

for real i'd definitely have fun in a month with agreed 0 petitions and just whoever gets it down wins. That just would be a fun event.

Didn't your leader log on another guild's bot and then train them with it recently?

[Twochain]

Petitions without enforcement are meaningless. ATM we are living in your dream until GMs can take care of the plate thats piling higher and higher. Been almost 3 months now since there was any decisions made on raid disputes.

i think it's more like, GM's read this shit, scoff, call us nerds, and then put the earthquake button away for another month.

[Grumph]

i think it's more like, GM's read this shit, scoff, call us nerds, and then put the earthquake button away for another month.

Yeah quaking green without blue was a pretty clear “y’all aren’t making our job very fun” message.

Oh well.

No choice but to quadruple down on “Piercing Roar!!” accusations. Amirite?

[bradsamma]

It's sad, Riot's main strategy right now is to essentially sit there and hope that vanquish trains them to get a concede. They complain about getting trained by vanquish but they never try to minimize the damage because they want those concede pixels.

Stuff like "we got trained at dain!! Concede!!!!"

Zone the fuck out retards.

[Grumph]

It's sad, Riot's main strategy right now is to essentially sit there and hope that vanquish trains them to get a concede. They complain about getting trained by vanquish but they never try to minimize the damage because they want those concede pixels.

Stuff like "we got trained at dain!! Concede!!!!"

Zone the fuck out retards.

The solution to GMs withholding quakes. Letting petitions “pile up urmaghad!” And often just issuing blanket bans on all raid entities?

Well. File more petitions of course!

And whenever confronted on the forums - be sure to make your disdain for Gms apparent with constant comments like “herp deep no rules!” “Yuck yuck what even is an yellow text!” Or “it’s all a political game and we’re just playing it!”

Bonus points for telling everyone’s Dad to F off on Fathers Day. And promoting Ngar.

But one thing is for dangit sure:

If everyone agrees to a public oath against toxicity and mind reading - that’d just be some weak shizzle that accomplishes nothing.

Such is life!

[RevSaber]

Root all mobs, not just the dragons

[Nexii]

It's sad, Riot's main strategy right now is to essentially sit there and hope that vanquish trains them to get a concede. They complain about getting trained by vanquish but they never try to minimize the damage because they want those concede pixels.

Stuff like "we got trained at dain!! Concede!!!!"

Zone the fuck out retards.

If you can't control your train then you don't deserve the mob.

[Samoht]

If you can't control your train then you don't deserve the mob.

Riot trained first and did not concede.

Riot trained third and did not concede.

Riot still lost and did not earn the pixels, either way.

Didn't stop Riot leadership from crying OOC demanding free pixels.

[icedwards]

Smooth brains like Samoht and Grumph circle-jerking over half-baked half truths has got to be a new RNF low.

[Grumph]

Smooth brains like Samoht and Grumph circle-jerking over half-baked half truths has got to be a new RNF low.

Why do y’all always resort to pseudo-sexual and mental handicap based insults?

1). It comes off as bigoted.

2) or maybe from repressed feelings/self-conscious.

3) and I actually believe your capable of much more creativity if you only tried!

[ArbiterBlixen]

Why do y’all always resort to pseudo-sexual and mental handicap based insults?

1). It comes off as bigoted.

2) or maybe from repressed feelings/self-conscious.

3) and I actually believe your capable of much more creativity if you only tried!

He’s not. Hope this helps.

[Horza]

Why do y’all always resort to pseudo-sexual and mental handicap based insults?

1). It comes off as bigoted.

2) or maybe from repressed feelings/self-conscious.

3) and I actually believe your capable of much more creativity if you only tried!

https://i.imgur.com/KR8zSH1.png

[Viscere]

https://i.imgur.com/KR8zSH1.png

detoxx livin rent free in ya head bro

[Horza]

My favorite is "your fucking limb," what's yours?

[myrddraal]

My favorite is "your fucking limb," what's yours?

the one about breaking someones face into 5000 pieces. No wonder he and the dentist get along so well.

[Twochain]

get over it jesius

[Grumph]

https://i.imgur.com/KR8zSH1.png

Please remind us again of the bad words someone has said years ago.

People who continue to promote “Ngar” in the UN (today) have every right to critique other’s (years old) language!

With continued contributions like this I believe these servers will just get better and better!

As long as no one ever forgives anyone else’s past mistakes.

While continuing to hypocritically make the same mistakes in the present.

We’ll have no where to go hit UP! Thanks Horza!

[Croco]

There's nothing wrong with that character name. Seek help.

[ArbiterBlixen]

There's nothing wrong with that character name. Seek help.

Not sure you’re right about that. He has other characters with similar naming conventions like Cgar that also sound like real words.

[Grumph]

Not sure you’re right about that. He has other characters with similar naming conventions like Cgar that also sound like real words.



Yeah that whole argument seemed contradictory to me.

"This guy names every character along the same convention: Agar, Bgar, Cgar..."

Ok... So there's 27 letters in the alphabet to choose from.

Was it really a stretch to just skip the letter N?


I can even think of another name that would fit that character: Ogar.


Lol letter O comes right after N even! Doesnt take Richard Feynman genius to see the alternative options. (But then, Jutebox is no Richard Feynman)


Their whole argument highlights the fact that other options are available. And have been perfectly acceptable to the very same player.


Oh well. Although I am personally offended. I also believe in Freedom. The player made their choice. Then Kittens Who Say Ngar choose to promote it.

[xdrcfrx]

Yeah that whole argument seemed contradictory to me.


Ok... So there's 27 letters in the alphabet to choose from.



yikes.

[Bardp1999]

No Wu'Tang but Ngar and Twitchin Aint'Ez running free on the server

[Croco]

Yeah that whole argument seemed contradictory to me.

"This guy names every character along the same convention: Agar, Bgar, Cgar..."

Ok... So there's 27 letters in the alphabet to choose from.

Was it really a stretch to just skip the letter N?


I can even think of another name that would fit that character: Ogar.


Lol letter O comes right after N even! Doesnt take Richard Feynman genius to see the alternative options. (But then, Jutebox is no Richard Feynman)


Their whole argument highlights the fact that other options are available. And have been perfectly acceptable to the very same player.


Oh well. Although I am personally offended. I also believe in Freedom. The player made their choice. Then Kittens Who Say Ngar choose to promote it.

You were already given the exact reason he chose that name and you chose to ignore it and continue to peddle these same tired lies. You need professional help, you're way too immersed. But I believe you can overcome your issues. I'm pulling for you bro!

[Terrok]

What does this have to do with anything?

Also, if Kriot stopped cheating then there wouldn't be outstanding petitions.

lol, what drugs where you on when furor logged in loststalker and his own toon at the same time and trained riot? that must be some good koolaid...

[Chakfor]

Ok... So there's 27 letters in the alphabet to choose from.


I was going to say you need Jesus. But now I'm saying you need kindergarten.

[remen]

lol, what drugs where you on when furor logged in loststalker and his own toon at the same time and trained riot? that must be some good koolaid...

Furoar trained Criot 9 months ago, therefore it's ok for Kriot to cheat now?? Nice logic

[myrddraal]

Furoar trained Criot 9 months ago, therefore it's ok for Kriot to cheat now?? Nice logic

and Vanquish kited CT for like half an hour last week, Klaz definitely purposefully trained riot 2 weeks ago, I wasnt there for dain so idk that one for sure, Capi has a HABIT of charming dragon's pets in VP so you cant get a fresh FTE, idk man. Sure seems there's an awful lot of cheating going on from Vanquish's side.

[myrddraal]

i also forgot about Vanquish tryng to leash the severilous pull last week lol. There are just so many infractions its hard to pick.

[Grumph]

and Vanquish kited CT for like half an hour last week, Klaz definitely purposefully trained riot 2 weeks ago, I wasnt there for dain so idk that one for sure, Capi has a HABIT of charming dragon's pets in VP so you cant get a fresh FTE, idk man. Sure seems there's an awful lot of cheating going on from Vanquish's side.

"I wasn't there"

BUT

"Sure Seems..."

"Just like there's an awful lot..."

Friends we're witnessing the tragic societal end results of our failing modern journalistic standards.

Anonymous sources confirm the results we've obtained from an internal poll:

Vanquish has a HABIT! A HABIT I SAY!

15233

[remen]

and Vanquish kited CT for like half an hour last week, Klaz definitely purposefully trained riot 2 weeks ago, I wasnt there for dain so idk that one for sure, Capi has a HABIT of charming dragon's pets in VP so you cant get a fresh FTE, idk man. Sure seems there's an awful lot of cheating going on from Vanquish's side.

i also forgot about Vanquish tryng to leash the severilous pull last week lol. There are just so many infractions its hard to pick.

So then your new argument is Vanquish cheated multiple times, therefore it is ok for Kriot to cheat?? Your logical abilities continue to astound me.

[Argh]

So then your new argument is Vanquish cheated multiple times, therefore it is ok for Kriot to cheat?? Your logical abilities continue to astound me.

FTE without logic or fairness of course.

[Horza]

Furoar trained Criot 9 months ago,

[Grumph]

I don’t understand what the big deal is anyway.

If you go to a new team. And end up playing your old team. Everyone on both sides should already understand what’s about to happen.

The fact that y’all just gloss over the many many shenanigans Riot committed that day just goes to show how deeply hurt you were by Furoar leaving.

Y’all are like Cleveland after Lebron left.

[Croco]

mental gymnastics

[Nutsax]

I don’t understand what the big deal is anyway.

If you go to a new team. And end up playing your old team. Everyone on both sides should already understand what’s about to happen.

The fact that y’all just gloss over the many many shenanigans Riot committed that day just goes to show how deeply hurt you were by Furoar leaving.

Y’all are like Cleveland after Lebron left.

Quish will fold like Cleveland when Furoar leaves. It's already happening, dead guild walking.

[Arvan]

grumph hasn't made a thread about jutebox in like a full day i was beginning to think maybe he passed on from this world but nope

[Grumph]

grumph hasn't made a thread about jutebox in like a full day i was beginning to think maybe he passed on from this world but nope


There’s a reason I call these people out for internet bullying.

The shadow energy they feed off of and direct towards people isn’t satisfied with “deleting your character”

They want you dead.

If your reading this. I want you to know: your life matters. You matter. And whatever your going through I believe in yiu. Choose Life.

[Croco]

There’s a reason I call these people out for internet bullying.

The shadow energy they feed off of and direct towards people isn’t satisfied with “deleting your character”

They want you dead.

If your reading this. I want you to know: your life matters. You matter. And whatever your going through I believe in yiu. Choose Life.

Starts many aggressive antagonistic threads. Responds with lies and half truths constantly. Pushes false narratives at every turn. Acts shocked when people respond in turn and calls people bullies for simply asking someone to honor a bet they made (which is a joke/meme at this point anyways but you love to act like everyone is being deadly serious).

This my friends is text book gaslighting. Grumph is so good at it he could probably teach a university level course.

[apathe]

This thread does a great job of making everyone look level headed and reasonable. Would read again.

[k9quaint]

This thread does a great job of making everyone look level headed and reasonable. Would read again.

On a scale of 1 to Ultimate Pixel Lust, I rate this thread at 0.89 Juteboxides.

[Grumph]

Starts many aggressive antagonistic threads. Responds with lies and half truths constantly. Pushes false narratives at every turn. Acts shocked when people respond in turn and calls people bullies for simply asking someone to honor a bet they made (which is a joke/meme at this point anyways but you love to act like everyone is being deadly serious).

This my friends is text book gaslighting. Grumph is so good at it he could probably teach a university level course.


Basic B humanity: “I never said anything mean! It was just a Joke! Taking it seriously that’s YOUr problem!”

Even more so… “Oh you said something I don’t like? That’s aggressive, antagonistic, half true, gaslightning!”


Dude are you mad y’all had to bring Kittens for Vulak and let them have a Gharns?

I hate it for you buddy. But it had to be done. My personal honor required it.

[Viscere]

The way I see it :

P99 blue has gone communist, so why not as well go to kriot to get welfare pixels ?

If you are lazy and communist, you go to kriot, drive a lada and have all the same shoes with no laces but a zipper and eat your marx dragon rations with a smile on your face, knowing how great it is to do your part for the motherland.

If you want to be with the best players and get more merbs during non leninistic phases of the server, you go to vanq

[nostalgiaquest]

There’s a reason I call these people out for internet bullying.



Whoever used to cram you into a locker when you were in school.

I'm sure isn't still bragging to all his friends about how much of a loser you were and how much better than you he was.

That Dude has probably moved on to bigger and better things. Heck I'm sure you have too! Maybe your doing even better right now than that guy is or ever could!

But I get the feeling somethings still gnawing away at you NostalgiaBro.

Maybe there was a lesson for you there, stuffed in that locker, with your baseball cap getting caught on the coat hooks, and your homework lost in the shuffle of the hallway, and your pride bruised even worse than your elbow or your hip.

And maybe that lesson, that very same lesson, is one your still avoiding to this day.

Never forget that the above post was made by a grown adult as a response to a simple question about a bet.

And what's even funnier is that this whole "delete your character" business was completely created by you. You berged out, got all internet tough guy, and brought up the idea of deletion yourself. It's not unreasonable for us to be asking you to honor the bet. You know, the one you started.

https://i.imgur.com/Aw3d1LW.jpg

Had you won I'm sure you'd be in here creating multiple threads for Salvette to delete. But that's just the kind of person you are isn't it? You may not be the sharpest in the shed, but one thing is for sure, you are definitely a tool.

[Arvan]

The way I see it :

P99 blue has gone communist, so why not as well go to kriot to get welfare pixels ?

If you are lazy and communist, you go to kriot, drive a lada and have all the same shoes with no laces but a zipper and eat your marx dragon rations with a smile on your face, knowing how great it is to do your part for the motherland.

If you want to be with the best players and get more merbs during non leninistic phases of the server, you go to vanq

yeah cause vanq had such a great cycle the week before draft :D

[Loke]

yeah cause vanq had such a great cycle the week before draft :D

You mean the cycle which we were bagged on Doze and Vulak? Discounting welfare mobs, the cycle was pretty even for major targets.

Also, obligatory summer, BBQ and holiday weekend excuse.

[Grumph]

You mean the cycle which we were bagged on Doze and Vulak? Discounting welfare mobs, the cycle was pretty even for major targets.

Also, obligatory summer, BBQ and holiday weekend excuse.

it unironically was a summer holiday bbq weekedn! LOL

[Grumph]

it unironically was a summer holiday bbq weekedn! LOL

...for anyone who's not a communist.

[Arvan]

You mean the cycle which we were bagged on Doze and Vulak? Discounting welfare mobs, the cycle was pretty even for major targets.

Also, obligatory summer, BBQ and holiday weekend excuse.

So you killed two things and wiped on uncontested CT? Golf clap for you my friend.

[Grumph]

So you killed two things and wiped on uncontested CT? Golf clap for you my friend.


Did Riot let yall have a fair share of loot?

[Arvan]

Did Riot let yall have a fair share of loot?

yes to that but tell me did AG let freedom get any loot ha ha ha

[Grumph]

yes to that but tell me did AG let freedom get any loot ha ha ha

Awesome buddy. Glad to hear it.

Your welcome!

[Horza]

...for anyone who's not a communist.

Get out of my head, Democrats!! :mad:

[Capi]

imagine thinking getting a political agenda passed in a video game is the end game. go fuck yourselves

[myrddraal]

imagine thinking getting a political agenda passed in a video game is the end game. go fuck yourselves

its almost like...a ROLEPLAYING game?

[Loke]

So you killed two things and wiped on uncontested CT? Golf clap for you my friend.

Umm, we killed CT. Also, how was it uncontested... weren't you guys crying about it being a kite? You know, the mob that always bounces around because it has a fear and a knockback? What ever happened to the petition on that one, or was Kittens crying wolf?

[Ennewi]

Can the questions get any more passive aggressive?

[Grumph]

Can the questions get any more passive aggressive?


What’s next?

Will someone release deceptively edited audio clips of a diplomatic parley between guild leaders?

[nostalgiaquest]

Maybe someone will make a bet that involves character deletion!

[myrddraal]

Maybe someone will make a bet that involves character deletion!

nobody would ever be that stupid.

[Pulgasari]

Maybe someone will make a bet that involves character deletion!

I thought player agreements were enforced by staff? :confused:

Filing a petition.

[Ennewi]

What’s next?

Will someone release deceptively edited audio clips of a diplomatic parley between guild leaders?

EverQuestions

[Croco]

What’s next?

Will someone release deceptively edited audio clips of a diplomatic parley between guild leaders?

As has been explained multiple times there was no editing. The person recording has this happen every time they record for whatever reason and it's hard/impossible to hear them in the recording. I'm sure furoar was recording though, he always is, you could ask him for his side and hear all the dastardly things being said, oh what's that you say your glorious leader has never released his recording of the conversation? Weird!