Also expect lists

[JDFriend99]

if there isn't any Hoorah. But expect the same lines to farm legacy and the same amount of boxers account sharing to do so.

Blue velious and kunark was much more fun.

Enjoy the fights tomorrow.

[Darkplague]

Wonder if when you add yourself to the /list if the IP address could be recorded and on afk check IP address cross checked.

If it doesn't match, remove from list?

Will save the account sharing that is 100% happening.

[loramin]

It's all just so ... unclassic :(

(For the record, I supported /list 1.0 originally, but NO ONE remembers twenty-odd person days-long lines for ANYTHING on live. We just need a 2.0 version that trades 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. places in line for a random chance for anyone on list to become #2. On live, good loot was always about patience and luck, and the same should be true here.)

[Tilien]

Wonder if when you add yourself to the /list if the IP address could be recorded and on afk check IP address cross checked.

If it doesn't match, remove from list?

Will save the account sharing that is 100% happening.

I don't think this actually helps. The second or third person will use a screen sharing program so the original computer is still the computer with the login.

[fortior]

Wonder if when you add yourself to the /list if the IP address could be recorded and on afk check IP address cross checked.

If it doesn't match, remove from list?

Will save the account sharing that is 100% happening.

oh that's genius dude. just use IP addresses. lol

[Castle2.0]

Hehehe. Lists.

Still no better solution. IP adress, random to anyone on list, etc. etc. All stupidly bad ideas with endless threads bickering over it.

Only the original list stands as the least worst idea.

And still.... Lists...You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

[Darkplague]

I don't think this actually helps. The second or third person will use a screen sharing program so the original computer is still the computer with the login.

Ah yes, of course. So only the best cheaters can cheat. 😂

[sajbert]

Hehehe. Lists.

Still no better solution. IP adress, random to anyone on list, etc. etc. All stupidly bad ideas with endless threads bickering over it.

Only the original list stands as the least worst idea.

And still.... Lists...You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Go away. You’ve made your ill-informed opinion clear on this matter enough times already. We know that you have no qualms with staying up or account sharing with someone for multiple days on end to get X listed item. I don’t know if I should be happy or sad for you.

[yyrkoon]

Go away. You’ve made your ill-informed opinion clear on this matter enough times already. We know that you have no qualms with staying up or account sharing with someone for multiple days on end to get X listed item. I don’t know if I should be happy or sad for you.

hes not about screensharing .

just massive botting . there have been a lot of talk about it during the mana stone days

right now prbly running his 50 necro bots to WL

[cd288]

It's all just so ... unclassic :(

(For the record, I supported /list 1.0 originally, but NO ONE remembers twenty-odd person days-long lines for ANYTHING on live. We just need a 2.0 version that trades 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. places in line for a random chance for anyone on list to become #2. On live, good loot was always about patience and luck, and the same should be true here.)

For the most part there weren’t lines from day one on live because no one knew what or where anything was. I do remember there eventually being lines for j boots at the tail end of the era of them being a drop though; people figured that one out pretty quick.

[loramin]

For the most part there weren’t lines from day one on live because no one knew what or where anything was. I do remember there eventually being lines for j boots at the tail end of the era of them being a drop though; people figured that one out pretty quick.

Not 10+ player multi-day long ones.

[zodium]

i told you dawg, i warned you about not just making legacy items really common bro

[BlackBellamy]

They should have had the nerfed version dropping from the start. But that would put a dent in the HotPocket Corp profits.

[Sotaris]

I remember Holgresh Elder Beads and the camp was never, ever crazy on Veeshan, one of the biggest servers.

It's quite problematic when you tell people in advance that items will be removed. It's also problematic when said item is droppable and thus can sell for a fortune.

Because back in the day, it wasn't EVErYBODY farming them, it was a select few classes and people. Hell, the camp was empty most of the time. Perhaps they need a No drop tag added to them.

Same goes for Ornate Velium Pendant. Those were not camped whatsoever. They were given out at raids in Icewell for whoever the hell wanted them.

I dunno, it's tough. I dislike non classic changes, but people behave in such a way that they make things not classic, and that sucks. Maybe they need to make a rule against account sharing too, so people can't just keep swapping with each other to stay in line and create these long lines that aren't reasonable for any normal, lawful goods.

[Castle2.0]

Go away.
I've retired :) Just check forums from time to time for fun.

I'm with you, Sadge, we should all be handed manastones and rubi BPs when we roll our toons. This is the way.

[Graahle]

They should. This project is fucked because you freaks blindly scream for your personal vision of Classic and complain CONSTANTLY.

[jadier]

Same goes for Ornate Velium Pendant. Those were not camped whatsoever. They were given out at raids in Icewell for whoever the hell wanted them.

I dunno, it's tough. I dislike non classic changes, but people behave in such a way that they make things not classic, and that sucks. Maybe they need to make a rule against account sharing too, so people can't just keep swapping with each other to stay in line and create these long lines that aren't reasonable for any normal, lawful goods.

Ornate Pendants aren’t a list camp. Given the large number of mobs, how tough they are (can’t be rooted or snared), and the relatively reason drop rate (5-10%), it’s actually a pretty non-toxic camp on Green right now. People are friendly, there are even the occasion pickup groups (though mostly soloers and guild groups).

[JayDee]

It's all just so ... unclassic :(

(For the record, I supported /list 1.0 originally, but NO ONE remembers twenty-odd person days-long lines for ANYTHING on live. We just need a 2.0 version that trades 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. places in line for a random chance for anyone on list to become #2. On live, good loot was always about patience and luck, and the same should be true here.)

You're not fooling anyone. Always posting about what's better for the server or classic or the collective when it's just to benefit yourself

[cd288]

Not 10+ player multi-day long ones.

Oh right I forgot your memory is the only one that matters on P99 and you like to assert that everyone has the same memories you do. Got it.

[Graahle]

You're not fooling anyone. Always posting about what's better for the server or classic or the collective when it's just to benefit yourself

A duplicitous guise indeed. It would be one thing if his posts were backed up by something other than 20 years old anecdotal memories.

[loramin]

You're not fooling anyone. Always posting about what's better for the server or classic or the collective when it's just to benefit yourself

So, if I plan to play an Enchanter AND a Necro someday, how does arguing for charm to be more classic help me?

[loramin]

Oh right I forgot your memory is the only one that matters on P99 and you like to assert that everyone has the same memories you do. Got it.

Show me just one piece of actual evidence that there were 48+ hour long lists on live during the classic era and I'll donate $20 to a charity of your choice.

[cd288]

Show me just one piece of actual evidence that there were 48+ hour long lists on live during the classic era and I'll donate $20 to a charity of your choice.

For J Boots, in both Najena era and in the quest era, there were long lists like that on some servers. I remember because I had to occasionally handle petitions about those lines on some servers. Trying to recall if there were other items like that.

However, on some servers there weren't really lines. That's the thing with classic EQ back in the day, things varied wildly between servers. Some of it was simply a coincidence of a server having more widespread knowledge of things; some of it was just that people didn't end up doing it the way another server did with things like lines or camps (for example, the HK Goblins were always more than one camp, but how many camps they were varied a ton across servers; some were first floor vs. second floor, some were each room was a camp, etc. etc.).

And therein lies the problem with people on P99 going "I remember it this way so that's the way it was." They remember it based on the server they played on, when it could be completely different if they were on another server.

[Man0warr]

It also doesn't matter how it was then. Because making it "classic" would just cause a lot of head aches for GMs - /lists aren't classic but we have seen the alternative already.

[fortior]

multi day camps are extremely classic, you know why the term poopsocking was invented right? either man up and take some time off work to get beads, or just don't get beads. simple as. it's a desirable item which only drops in a limited timeframe, if 20 people want it more than you then that's a you problem.

it's also fucking hilarious to hear the guy constantly crowing about the P99 wiki, probably the single most unclassic information repository, complain that lists aren't classic.

remove the p99 wiki

[sajbert]

How many days can u expect yo camp for beads as is?

[Graahle]

multi day camps are extremely classic, you know why the term poopsocking was invented right? either man up and take some time off work to get beads, or just don't get beads. simple as. it's a desirable item which only drops in a limited timeframe, if 20 people want it more than you then that's a you problem.

it's also fucking hilarious to hear the guy constantly crowing about the P99 wiki, probably the single most unclassic information repository, complain that lists aren't classic.

remove the p99 wiki

Facts. You can completely miss me with those stupid fucking camps personally, but I agree with the requirement to put the time in for those that want it.

Colossal facts on the wiki dude lmaoooo

[Darkplague]

How many days can u expect yo camp for beads as is?

35-40+ hours depending on a lot. Mine was about 36.

I had 8 hours when I finally got to 1, someone I know had 13+ (not sure of they got them in the end).

[Bardp1999]

Did they make Elder Beads a /list camp?

[Tethler]

Did they make Elder Beads a /list camp?

Yes

[fastboy21]

It's all just so ... unclassic :(

(For the record, I supported /list 1.0 originally, but NO ONE remembers twenty-odd person days-long lines for ANYTHING on live. We just need a 2.0 version that trades 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. places in line for a random chance for anyone on list to become #2. On live, good loot was always about patience and luck, and the same should be true here.)

I have to agree. With skepticism (and some constructive criticism after playing them), I accepted the original /list system because of its need to automate what would otherwise be an untenable situation for GMs to maintain. I had hoped that some of the drawbacks would eventually get worked out later on.

The AFK checks on multi-day camp are atrocious and, honestly, unhealthy designed play. (If you can really call it "play" at all.)

There is no chance of the RNG rewarding a casual player (casual is anyone who can't sit for two days waiting for their turn --- not exaggerating). In classic EQ there is a chance that such a player gets rewarded. If it takes an average statistical player 100 hundred hours to farm an item, he should be able to break that commitment up (10 hours here --- so casual, 10 hours there, a few hours here, etc.) and, in the aggregate, commit enough time to eventually let the RNG give him his reward. Those players are shit out of luck with this system --- and, in my opinion, it is more than a small demographic.

I understand the need for creating an in-game system to somehow deal with this stuff, but I feel like there are better solutions that we should find in the future compared to the current iteration of /list.

[fortior]

casual players don't need elder beads

but yes, /list is a problem. making it RNG based does not solve that problem. the problem is that a highly desirable and very powerful item is time-limited and made to drop only in a very small area. the solution would be to not nerf the item, but that is Not Classic, and we can't have things that aren't classic (like high speed internet, the p99 wiki, /list, rooted dragons, the list goes on)

[fastboy21]

casual players don't need elder beads



Not sure the logic that brought you to this conclusion. Seems like you might have just made it up.

The "problem" isn't the high demand (justified by the utility) on the item or the high price tag that it commands. This is part of the game...and should remain so.

The current system essentially locks out a casual player (a term I defined in my previous post as not being able to be online hitting an afk check button for 48 hours or longer -- I'm talking about a player who logs in and plays at the camp for 15 hours every day for two months at his favorite rare item camp. THAT guy has a ZERO chance to win in the /list system).

That seems obviously flawed to me --- again, not in a way that makes the system horribly useless, but in a way that should be addressed somehow in future iterations of the /list system.

[cd288]

Not sure the logic that brought you to this conclusion. Seems like you might have just made it up.

The "problem" isn't the high demand (justified by the utility) on the item or the high price tag that it commands. This is part of the game...and should remain so.

The current system essentially locks out a casual player (a term I defined in my previous post as not being able to be online hitting an afk check button for 48 hours or longer -- I'm talking about a player who logs in and plays at the camp for 15 hours every day for two months at his favorite rare item camp. THAT guy has a ZERO chance to win in the /list system).

That seems obviously flawed to me --- again, not in a way that makes the system horribly useless, but in a way that should be addressed somehow in future iterations of the /list system.

Except your whole example is flawed from the start because those items are perma camped so the odds of the guy being able to log in every day and conveniently find the camp open for him to sit at for 15 hours are almost 0

[LHK]

IMO /list is fine conceptually, the problem is having teams of players sharing accounts turning it into a multi-day ordeal. I know people personally who have 5+ people all logging into one char abusing the relog window of time in order to maintain their spot on the list, and i'm sure every single person at the list is doing exactly that. This completely defeats the point of /list. I don't care if technically sharing accounts is allowed, the elder beads list is one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen on P99 and is completely against the spirit of the game IMO. It's rubbed me in such a wrong way that I've been considering quitting playing because it's just wrong to me that 1) people would do that and 2) the staff sees this and is fine with it. I was around for Velious on blue and it wasn't like this at all, casual players had a real shot at getting beads (it was a very long/brutal camp but it was *possible*) - it's literally not possible now unless you have a team of people you trust to log into a char and hit that AFK button every 15 minutes.

The /list is a failure, and it erodes confidence in Project 1999 as a whole to me - There are so many unclassic changes on this server already but this shit is a step too far for me, personally. It's so god damn depressing seeing everyone crowd into The Hole for months and months, places like KC / Seb being completely deserted (which they weren't on blue in Kunark), due to unclassic ZEM changes but being told that "This is fine" the whole time, and velious finally coming out and having this shitshow happen and again, "this is fine".

It's not fine, this server is missing the entire point of its existence now, and I'm just about ready to give up on it. I love P99, I started playing here in 2013 but started really playing in 2015, so 6 years of almost every day playing here and watching it just devolve into this shit is so depressing. The best experience I ever had was when Green launched, everyone was in it together to get XP (and healthily compete for the limited XP mobs) and to just experience classic. Kunark Release was still okay, lots of excitement and people playing because it was "new" and exciting. Once the Hole came out with its ZEM this server basically died at the upper end. Players who would have probably given up around lvl 52 were able to be carried to 60 by this zones ridiculous double XP and completely ignored all other content (Its absurd to me that no XP groups happen in Seb or KC in-era. I get it, path of least resistance, but thats as "unclassic" as it gets).

The problem has been exacerbated so much now with Velious release and the beads camp showing that the current devs, while I do think they are amazing from a CSR standpoint, have little to no interest in making things *actually* classic, or even in the "Spirit of Classic". I will concede that obviously its a tricky problem, the players have changed, the knowledge of how important stuff is is so much greater now especially with legacy items, but come the hell on, at some point you have to admit this project is, generously heading in the wrong direction and at worst an abject failure.

I'm sorry for the vent / rant, I don't mean to flame anybody, I just really care a lot about this server/game and it pains me greatly to see where it's going.

[BlackBellamy]

and it erodes confidence in Project 1999 as a whole to me - There are so many unclassic changes on this server already but this shit is a step too far for me, personally.

alternative is some guild will control the elder spawns and you the casual player will never ever get any until every last of their alts gets one and also it will generate endless petitions which for me would be the main reason, because i don't want my volunteer staff to settle bead disputes all day long

[Fammaden]

The real hard solution was never to have pre-nerf legacy items in the game at all. Its not as integral to the classic experience as people make out, and they mostly just generate interest from the most greedy and sweaty factions of players. The stuff was nerfed/removed for a reason. It just creates a huge diversion from the intent of the wider game world.

[fastboy21]

Except your whole example is flawed from the start because those items are perma camped so the odds of the guy being able to log in every day and conveniently find the camp open for him to sit at for 15 hours are almost 0

Not really. How many times on live did you sit and just wait a few hours for a spot in a group? Helping out with buffs or a rez or ports...chatting and making jokes...and eventually getting into the group? Did you ever log in every few hours just to do a camp check? Ever wake up early on a week day just to get a better shot of a grp needing a rep?

It isn't easy, but it IS a real and workable path that the /list system cuts off at the pass. Again, I'm not talking about casuals in the typical sense (log in a few hours a week, etc.) The so-called casuals I'm talking about can and do play for marathon 24 hour sessions...they aren't hard-core enough to do a /list camp though b/c they simply can't be online for literal days at a time hitting an afk check.

[fortior]

Not sure the logic that brought you to this conclusion. Seems like you might have just made it up.

beads are 600k plat on blue, which means 0 casual players have them, and there's plenty of casual players having a great time playing on the p1999 blue server.

they are nice to have if you are pulling raid mobs for a guild. in which case you either have a set because you are a hardcore raider or your guild gives you beads to use because you are an awesome puller.

you just want a shot at a big plat payday and you can't get one with the current system, which is why you want to turn it into a more fair system (one with the same end result for the playerbase at large, except you personally have a chance at getting the item you want).

[fastboy21]

beads are 600k plat on blue, which means 0 casual players have them, and there's plenty of casual players having a great time playing on the p1999 blue server.

they are nice to have if you are pulling raid mobs for a guild. in which case you either have a set because you are a hardcore raider or your guild gives you beads to use because you are an awesome puller.

you just want a shot at a big plat payday and you can't get one with the current system, which is why you want to turn it into a more fair system (one with the same end result for the playerbase at large, except you personally have a chance at getting the item you want).

Actually, I don't play on green anymore...so I don't have a dog in the fight except in trying to make the game better. Not sure why you assume otherwise about me.

I also play on Blue. My monk and necro both have beads there. I am a casual player. I guess I don't exist.

[fortior]

oh okay so you are just commenting on how /list affects the game on a server you don't play on, thanks. I will forward your opinion to the nearest paper shredder

[Khaleesi]

It's all just so ... unclassic :(

(For the record, I supported /list 1.0 originally, but NO ONE remembers twenty-odd person days-long lines for ANYTHING on live. We just need a 2.0 version that trades 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. places in line for a random chance for anyone on list to become #2. On live, good loot was always about patience and luck, and the same should be true here.)

And you were told at the time that your simping for the developers was wrong, as usual. List was a terrible idea, completely unclassic and just kowtowing to carebears. As a long standing veteran, you should have rallied the community to challenge it before the server launched. But oh wait, they smuggled in the server, by announcing it mere months before it went live (with no beta testing or community discussion to be had)...

Lists is also a shortcut to reducing guide work, since they were low on guides (and we know why that happens...) and did not want to do the leg work/dealing with tickets

All the custom nonsense made things way more complicated, just like the raid scene.
Remember R and C rotations ? Give me a break

Green was a chance to do it right for once, after the excessive mistakes done on blue
And yet..

;golfclap;

[JDAm0nk]

IMO /list is fine conceptually, the problem is having teams of players sharing accounts turning it into a multi-day ordeal. I know people personally who have 5+ people all logging into one char abusing the relog window of time in order to maintain their spot on the list, and i'm sure every single person at the list is doing exactly that. This completely defeats the point of /list. I don't care if technically sharing accounts is allowed, the elder beads list is one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen on P99 and is completely against the spirit of the game IMO.

I agree completely.

I have been having a lot of fun with P99 and I am super thankful for the staff and community. Getting to experience the nostalgia of classic EQ in 2021 is awesome. There is nothing that beats it when it comes to world immersion, class/race dynamics, and janky mechanics. I love it.

But after playing for awhile, it's very clear that almost all of the top content/camps and even the whole economy of the Green server is controlled and gated by a small percentage of players. Maybe that is "classic." I'm not looking for "free pixels" or BiS-gear. The grind is part of what I enjoy - but when I spend days sitting on certain spawns and farming thousands of plat, then my hopes are that I would be able to afford some gear upgrades. This has been difficult in this current economy/community.

At the end of the day, I'm still having fun playing. I have learned a lot about EQ from the wiki and forum here. I've met cool people and had a lot of great groups. But I'm guarded on how much time/energy I'm willing to invest in a server/community like Green. Even though it is a newer and more active community, the idea of starting fresh on Green today is about as appealing as starting fresh on the current Red server...

[fortior]

the lack of name moderation is a far greater problem than /list

[Ravager]

the lack of name moderation is a far greater problem than /list

[kaev]

The real hard solution was never to have pre-nerf legacy items in the game at all. Its not as integral to the classic experience as people make out, and they mostly just generate interest from the most greedy and sweaty factions of players. The stuff was nerfed/removed for a reason. It just creates a huge diversion from the intent of the wider game world.

But wait, having zero legacy items present on a server IS part of the classic EQ experience. Sony was still opening new servers all they way through and long past the end of the p99 timeline, the last standard rules server opened with the release of the LoY expansion.

Imagine it: No manastones cheesing the ever-living shit out of Sky raids would be pretty cool, and incredibly classic.

[Lightbringer55]

The way I see it, none of the legacy items are necessary to enjoy the game. What I love about the /list system for the legacy items is that it keeps a certain population of the server fixated on those items for days at a time and out of the way of the rest of us that want to try our luck at regular camps with some cash drops without monopolizing it!

[Lightbringer55]

And the other way to look at lists is that if you and let's say 5 other friends each spend 8-10 hours of your life camping the item taking shifts, then decide to sell the item down the road for 600k or whatever stupid price they're going for, you just made 100k for 8-10 hours of play time which is probably one of the best returns on your time 'investment' in this game.