Extensive evidence, full proof that Enchanters are non-classic and must be nerfed.

[Izmael]

Just kidding.







Seek help.

[starkind]

fuck

[RecondoJoe]

TLP is pretty good evidence that they are honestly

Enchanters on TLP don’t put their points in Charisma because it’s a completely different system and always was.

[Baler]

Just kidding.
Seek help.

I was just about to go get some popcorn.
;) Gottem, well played

[loramin]

Just kidding.







Seek help.

Imagine feeling so threatened that your simulator of a 20-year old game might actually get a tiny bit more accurate, that you make an entire post about ... what exactly?

[strongNpretty]

Imagine feeling so threatened that your simulator of a 20-year old game might actually get a tiny bit more accurate, that you make an entire post about ... what exactly?

Bahahaha true that Loramin...

[cd288]

TLP is pretty good evidence that they are honestly

Enchanters on TLP don’t put their points in Charisma because it’s a completely different system and always was.

TLP is a different code base IIRC with many different changes. What people do on TLP and how the mechanics work isn’t really relevant or equivalent to classic in many ways

[cd288]

Just kidding.







Seek help.

I loled

[Toxigen]

Just kidding.







Seek help.

+1 for the good guys

[Jibartik]

lol op

[Vivitron]

Imagine feeling so threatened that your simulator of a 20-year old game might actually get a tiny bit more accurate, that you make an entire post about ... what exactly?

The point of the OP appears to be to poke a little fun at the obsessive enchanter posting you're doing over in the mage thread, and similar such crusades by others.

[loramin]

The point of the OP appears to be to poke a little fun at the obsessive enchanter posting you're doing over in the mage thread, and similar such crusades by others.

The only "crusade" I'm on is the one in the upper-left corner of the screen, and it should be the crusade that everyone here is on.

R&N (and countless other volunteers) have given a huge amount of their personal time (years at this point) to let us all experience countless hours of a wonderful game ... a game that by all rights should have ended in '01! But, thanks to their efforts we all have been enjoying it (again) for over a decade now.

If you enjoy/appreciate any of that, why wouldn't you want to help them with the only thing they've ever asked the community for: assistance making this place even more classic than it already is?

[Jibartik]

Loramin, you are on a crusade because you post your "non researched belief" that charm didnt work the way it does right now in every thread about enchanters.

You have done none of what you say this server does, and yet here you go again talking about it like you have. Stop trying to push your shaman agenda on enchanters. It's obvious that you are super biased.

[loramin]

Loramin, you are on a crusade because you post your "non researched belief" that charm didnt work the way it does right now in every thread about enchanters.

You have done none of what you say this server does, and yet here you go again talking about it like you have. Stop trying to push your shaman agenda on enchanters. It's obvious that you are super biased.

For the record, my Shaman is only one of my toons, and I literally haven't played him in months. I also have (among other toons) a 60 Druid, a 30-something Necro, and an Enchanter in his teens that I will someday level up. In other words, I both:

A) have plenty of practical knowledge of what it's like to level a charmer on P99, and

B) have "skin in the game": my advocacy is making my own future life harder!

No joke: I very much plan to take both my Necro and Enchanter (screw Bards, my wrists can't take it) to 60 here someday. This means that if my "crusade" succeeds in to make charming harder accurate here, it will make my own life much harder.

So why on earth would I advocate for something that makes my own life more difficult? Because I've had a ton of fun here! I'm appreciative of what the staff has given us, so I want to support them in their goal. Again, their goal is a more accurate emulator, and pretending our emulator is accurate when people are playing it in a massively different way than they did the original doesn't help them ... even if it makes it easier for my Enchanter to level up someday.

Also, you people seem to think live Enchanters were some terrible class: they weren't! Making Enchanters classic here won't end them, it will just make them want to group more, like they did on live.

[RecondoJoe]

Ignore them, Loramin. Everyone on TLP makes fun of how broken P99's charm system is, and every guide discourages new players from stacking Charisma because of how unrewarding it is. P99 is a custom server with a unique version of charm that doesn't even remotely resemble the system that was or is in place on live.

My guild leader actually made fun of me for wearing an Ishva robe and Siryn Hair Hood, and then I explained to him that all of my Enchanters gear is stuff I pieced together with stuff I already had in my bank. I didn't go out and buy a bunch of useless Charisma gear.

[Jibartik]

You people?

bro I played an enchanter as my first class on tunare and rallos zek since the day the game launched, I charmed creatures and people every day it never got resisted. What i didnt know were a thing were AOE stuns and every cleric would /q the group if you charmed because everyone was a prickly back then.

9/10 times I would break charm myself and only use it as a reliable mez because I was a stupid ass teenager.

[RecondoJoe]

You people?

bro I played an enchanter as my first class on tunare and rallos zek since the day the game launched, I charmed creatures and people every day it never got resisted. What i didnt know were a thing were AOE stuns and every cleric would /q the group if you charmed because everyone was a prickly back then.

9/10 times I would break charm myself and only use it as a reliable mez because I was a stupid ass teenager.

IDK how accurate this really is. I always felt like Enchanters were useless in duels (I was on Tunare also). I remember dueling my friend and feeling like a bully because he went completely OOM trying to get his magic-based spells to land on me. Granted I was in full Skyshrine gear at the time.

[loramin]

Wait, I'm confused: are you saying you soloed your way to 60 through charming, P99-style ... or were you playing in a group like virtually every Enchanter did on live?

[Jibartik]

Wait, I'm confused: are you saying you soloed your way to 60 through charming, P99-style ... or were you playing in a group like virtually every Enchanter did on live?

No I’m saying that charm didn’t behave the way you (don’t remember it) behaving

[strongNpretty]

My support is always behind the Alphabear that is Loramin. Always appreciate you dude.

[Jibartik]

I’m also saying if I had videos of tech most back then I’ll bet you I could a solid with the chanter the same way, based off what I remember.

But you don’t hear me replying with that in every thread about enchanters because it isn’t about what you remember it isn’t about what you feel Laura Miller it’s about what we could actually find us data and we can’t find data the only data we can’t find is that people who weren’t there and don’t remember saying this is unfair and the people that were there and do remember remember running to go get an alligator to go win a duel in the oasis

[Jibartik]

Lol also Laura Miller is the best auto correct for your avatar name Lorain.

[Toothed]

I don't think it was the resists we were arguing over. Resists are easier here across the board. What we're talking about is charm lasting for the full timer all the time. On live it would break more often and you would waste your mana to the point you would have to zone. Then you would go get a group.

[Jibartik]

The point I’m making is I used charm and when I came to p99 I felt like I was playing the old game again and first class I chose was chanter.

Also a freaking shadow knight can solo to 60 on the same server, that is way less normal than chanter charming.

[Jibartik]

Toothed, I’m telling you dude charm brakes were not a problem for me if they were I wouldn’t go charm things in the middle of a duel.

[starkind]

Toothed, I’m telling you dude charm brakes were not a problem for me if they were I wouldn’t go charm things in the middle of a duel.

Ppl charm in pvp cuz if it breaks or is dispelled in ten seconds they just run and plug at the zone line with a massive train.

[Toothed]

I'm not talking about an alligator in oasis I'm talking about crawling thru a dungeon.

[Jibartik]

duh.

Are you new to project 1999 you just described the first five years of project 1999 until a certain someone name triangle started teaching people how to charm and then another person posted videos about it and here we are now.

[Toothed]

You right. I just wish we could go back to classic before people had the internet and could share strategies...

[Jibartik]

It's also extrodinarlly difficult to "crawl through a dungeon" on p99 idc what you say, id like to see you at 36 solo the bar in sola, you cant! too many mobs!

It's not like enchanting makes crawling through and killing everything in a dungeon easy.

What does, is using lull (through walls which blows my mind was on live but I guess we have some evidence for that?)

Lull, i played an enchanter from launch to about halfway through kunark, I charmed, yes, I did, but did I lull? NOPE I didnt even know what that spell did, I thought it would make mobs not agro, but when i walked near them or pulled them, they agroed anyway, Not until p99 had I ever once used lull the way it seemed it was intended

Whats the status on lull guys? any proof about that one? Because being able to lull through walls, is why enchanter is powerful, not because charm.

[Jibartik]

IDK how accurate this really is. I always felt like Enchanters were useless in duels (I was on Tunare also). I remember dueling my friend and feeling like a bully because he went completely OOM trying to get his magic-based spells to land on me. Granted I was in full Skyshrine gear at the time.

the greatest dueler on rallos zek was a druid named starsparkle she won duels every minuet for months when the game lauched, i dueled her, she taught me how to charm. She charmed in every duel.

[Jibartik]

You right. I just wish we could go back to classic before people had the internet and could share strategies...

I think that we'll never get it back, but on mischife I do get that feeling of wonder that I havent had for years, wondering what the random loot drops will be for this mob Ive killed 1000 times before and never cared about

[Bondrake]

People need to stop ragging on enchanters and try to get laid or by someone who isn't a land whale.

[Jibartik]

Out of curiosity why is lull through walls on p99 is that an old game breaking bug we reverted to for classic? And it resulted in everyone thinking enchanters were too powerful?

[loramin]

I’m also saying if I had videos of tech most back then I’ll bet you I could a solid with the chanter the same way, based off what I remember.

If it was as easy to charm on live as your memories suggest ... then why didn't Enchanters (or Druids, or Necros) do it a lot? Again, anyone who played on live '99-'01 remembers Enchanters mostly grouping, and Druids mostly root/rotting. And this is supported by evidence: you can find like 20 root/rotting Druid guides for every one charming guide on the Wayback machine.

I'm NOT saying "Enchanters/Druids/etc. never charmed on live": people did charm on live! But ... they didn't do it at all how people do it here, and again that's a fact, not an opinion. So why not?

Are you saying "all of those 30x or more live players were idiots who couldn't figure out how to use their spells?" That's one answer people give. Another is "their internet connections were worse" (which might explain it being a bit less popular ... but not 20 guides to 1 guide unpopular).

So what's your explanation for why every class on our emulator plays the same basic way as it did on live, except the charming ones, if our emulator truly does match live?

[starkind]

the greatest dueler on rallos zek was a druid named starsparkle she won duels every minuet for months when the game lauched, i dueled her, she taught me how to charm. She charmed in every duel.

And constantly ran away and stayed out of range of both the player and her own pet I'm sure. And likely gated or zoned if a recharm didn't go as planned.

Ppl charm in pvp cuz if it breaks or is dispelled in ten seconds they just run and plug at the zone line with a massive train.

You can't even compare pvp and pve. Two different games. The goal in pvp isn't to grind exp. It's either ganking or interdiction and denial. Or blocking. Or zone control or whatever you want to call it.

Stop spewing bullshit.

Nerf charm.

[loramin]

My support is always behind the Alphabear that is Loramin. Always appreciate you dude.

https://i.imgur.com/JVXEEvS.gif?noredirect

[Jibartik]

If it was as easy to charm on live as your memories suggest ... then why didn't Enchanters (or Druids, or Necros) do it a lot?

until a certain someone name triangle started teaching people how to charm and then another person posted videos about it and here we are now.

The reason teh game is broken

Loramins work on the wiki.

The wiki is the single handed worst thing to happen to Everquest since luclin.

it turned social p99 into a solo only game where people read up on how to do things by themselves, instead of making friends to try to learn from them.

The only solution: There is none, so get used to it. At best zelda the second quest at the start of ever server, someone moves all the names and loot around (random loot tables similar to what is on mischife is a close second, but still easy to master)

Simply put, ever quest is an EASY GAME, what made it hard was everything was obfuscated behind bad information and nerds that didn't like to share power.

To be good at everquest, meant you were good at socializing. Ironic.

[Jibartik]

I mean the fact that live players use p99's wiki should indicate that

WHAT WE DO HERE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN WHAT ANYONE DID ON LIVE, EVER.

This is why we charm with great power here.

We know too much.

[Toothed]

I don't buy that argument Jibartik. Wanna know why? Because our soft hand held asses didn't figure any of this shit out. The real paying players did back then the hard way. They had 10x more skill than any of us. "Live players just weren't doing it right" is a BS argument. They are the ones that paved the way for what we do here. Thousands and thousands of brains is better than a few thousands +some time added. We just use recycled cheese sauce. We didn't pioneer the recipe.

[Jibartik]

Loramin finly stiched this book together

https://i.imgur.com/6nwNOjQ.png

and now he's realized what he has done.

Like Oppenheimer.

[Jibartik]

I don't buy that argument Jibartik. Wanna know why? Because our soft hand held asses didn't figure any of this shit out. The real paying players did back then the hard way. They had 10x more skill than any of us. "Live players just weren't doing it right" is a BS argument. They are the ones that paved the way for what we do here. Thousands and thousands of brains is better than a few thousands +some time added. We just use recycled cheese sauce. We didn't pioneer the recipe.

yeah for sure, we didn't pioneer it but we socialized it :p

[starkind]

I don't buy that argument Jibartik. Wanna know why? Because our soft hand held asses didn't figure any of this shit out. The real paying players did back then the hard way. They had 10x more skill than any of us. "Live players just weren't doing it right" is a BS argument. They are the ones that paved the way for what we do here. Thousands and thousands of brains is better than a few thousands +some time added. We just use recycled cheese sauce. We didn't pioneer the recipe.

Yeah. It's that cheep movie theater queso cheese and cardboard nachos. It's great. Don't get me wrong I want starwars 27 in the theatre.

But I was there when queso was first invented and accepted. It was bad ass.

Charming in p99 is absolutely retarded bullshit and if you think it's "fine" classic, or appropriately challenging.

...


We probably can't be close intimate friends irl. Lol.

[Jibartik]

starkind you and I meditate on the same wavelength that only .01% of the earth has discovered.

if you resonate hard enough you'll see where I am coming from.

What we're feeling on p99 is tantamount to what any country feels before it collapses, the proletariat have become too bourgeois.

[starkind]

starkind you and I meditate on the same wavelength that only .01% of the earth has discovered.

if you resonate hard enough you'll see where I am coming from.

What we're feeling on p99 is tantamount to what any country feels before it collapses, the proletariat have become too bourgeois.
I'm just having fun and you're a great sport :D

[RecondoJoe]

I don't buy that argument Jibartik. Wanna know why? Because our soft hand held asses didn't figure any of this shit out. The real paying players did back then the hard way. They had 10x more skill than any of us. "Live players just weren't doing it right" is a BS argument. They are the ones that paved the way for what we do here. Thousands and thousands of brains is better than a few thousands +some time added. We just use recycled cheese sauce. We didn't pioneer the recipe.

+1

I always think it's surreal when people just try to convince themselves that players 20 years ago were bad. It was the other way around. You didn't just join a group and go AFK. Mother fuckers would straight up kick your ass out, and even if you joined a group and didn't go AFK, people would invite other players who had better gear than you (especially if you were a melee) or invite other players who were flat out better than you are.

Being a good puller was a huge fucking deal in a version of the game where pull stealing was completely legal and common practice. A good puller meant the difference between having unlimited mobs and not having enough mobs. On P99 over 75% of melees are too pussified and scared to pull.

Real Everquest had millions of people playing it and competing against each other. You ended up with the best players at the top.

P99 = a bunch of low functioning people who likely only play this game because it's F2P and literally the least ambitious and skilled players of anyone I've ever met in an online gaming community.

Like on TLP legit 99% of the people I meet play OverWatch, Apex Legends, Valheim, League of Legends, and even The Burning Crusade etc. I doubt very seriously any of these P99 boomers could play any of those games due to the speed and mechanical skill involved.

[Jibartik]

dont +1 that, that was a missunderstasnding of my point.

I wasnt saying that live players are bad, Im saying our wiki is so perfect that they use it.

And that wiki makes the average player here, way to good, way better than they have been in 20 years, and way better than they would be in another 20.

So you see tons of chanters doing what you would only see a few, had the knowledge remained as secret as all the other knowledge that keeps the top players/guilds on top.

[starkind]

Ppl should need to submit video evidence of themselves personally beating ashzara on mythic in era b4 nzoth. b4 joining or getting a guild tag lawl :p

99.99% of the players here would die.

[loramin]

I mean the fact that live players use p99's wiki should indicate that

WHAT WE DO HERE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN WHAT ANYONE DID ON LIVE, EVER.

This is why we charm with great power here.

We know too much.

Ok Jib, so let's take a simple example. When my Druid was in his teens here on P99, I took him out to South Karana, where I proceeded to charm some elephants and make them fight each other. I knew nothing about charming, except the very basics of how it works (ie. cast charm to get a pet, cast invis on yourself to lose the pet, and then the usual rules about when pets take XP). I'm pretty sure live people knew those basics too, and knowing only that (with no Goblin ring), I was quickly getting noticeably more XP than I could earn root/rotting.

Now, South Karana was a popular destination on live too (more popular than here in fact). It had elephants too, and mechanically they were probably the same as the ones we have (modulo their exact spawn points). So IF our emulator was truly the same as live ... that would mean live Druids could also have done the exact same thing: charmed for faster XP, without a ring or any special tech, or even any knowledge whatsoever except how two spells on their list worked, and how pets worked,

But they didn't! Again, 20 root/rot guides vs. 1 charm guide ... long after the classic era. The vast majority of Druids weren't charming on live ... even though (again, IF our emulation is correct) they should have been able to do so, and would have gotten much better XP if they did.

Either the vast majority of live Druids ignored a way to get faster XP, a way that only required using two spells on their list and no real special knowledge ... OR, our emulator isn't accurate.

[Jibartik]

Here's a tip, go find some chat logs about it from 2000 instead of telling me a campfire story about how you think the earth is flat.

[starkind]

Also that is SK.

Not deep in perma or chardok. But Jibartik makes a fair point most druids didn't know about perma or chardok. Let alone have practice and gear for those places.

But those that did where truly great and ate a lot of deaths and it wasn't as ez as here where basically u can buy some bug carpaces/ chitins/ pants, and a shield and go to town. With an 80% plus success rate lol.

[starkind]

Here's a tip, go find some chat logs about it from 2000 instead of telling me a campfire story about how you think the earth is flat.

2k is dead and gone. Even imgur is making it more difficult to upload and link gifs here. This forum will be 2k in 2 more years

[Jibartik]

Also notice you speak of guides, and litearlly mya rguemnt was "there wer no guides on how to do it" so people didnt figure it out.

I mean, seriously dude, you're just saying the same thing as me only it's ending in you thinking that the reason we suddenly started charming 8 years after this server launched, that the only reason that's the case is because suddenly 8 years after p99 lauched, charm was nerfed compared to what it is now, not that people started making guides about it.

The fact that you can find 1 guide only supports my argument, nobody knew about it nobody was creative enough.

If root rotting worked back then and that's what the guide says, that doesnt mean that "EVERYONE WILL START TESTING NEW WAYS" they will just do what the guides say, to root rot.

Now the guides say to charm, so they all charm.

[starkind]

Root sucks hard on live still.

The only way I get away with it inside dungeons is because of AA spell casting stability or persistence or whatever and I have 3k more hp than I did at 60 on live. It wasn't reliable against dark blues because u ...

Had 2 be in a corner.

The smallest non melee broke it.

U were at 50% hp if successful dead otherwise.

I killed ghoul lord solo on live but like I had to die ten times to successfully do it once at 60 on live in Kunark gear.

1 in 10 first hand experience channeling that split.

Vs the 7-8 in ten yall get here.

Just whatever...

[Jibartik]

correction, root sucks if yuo are a player!

If you're an NPC you can land that baby through walls and it lasts at the very least 1 minuet lol

So many times I just sitting there apologizing to my group, "soon guys, sitting here waiting for root to drop" from the dying mob rooting me after I left to go pull more haha

Also lull not working around corners holy smokes, that is the biggest change of pace to this game Ive felt so far.

[RecondoJoe]

Root sucks hard on live still.

The only way I get away with it inside dungeons is because of AA spell casting stability or persistence or whatever and I have 3k more hp than I did at 60 on live. It wasn't reliable against dark blues because u ...

Had 2 be in a corner.

The smallest non melee broke it.

U were at 50% hp if successful dead otherwise.

I killed ghoul lord solo on live but like I had to die ten times to successfully do it once at 60 on live in Kunark gear.

1 in 10 first hand experience channeling that split.

Vs the 7-8 in ten yall get here.

Just whatever...
Root not reliable AT ALL on Thornblade..

on P99 when I played a Shaman I didnt give two fucks about Warriors having aggro problems because I was going to root every mob, so when I slowed the mob it wouldnt come beat my face. This erased all aggro issues the warrior (and me) had.

On Thornblade.. it's virtually impossible to keep a mob rooted for more than 10 seconds and that's only if that mob isnt being attacked. If he's being attacked you might as well not even cast the spell.

[Jibartik]

I get max roots on basically every mob I root CC with my rangers crappy root.

It even flashes when it's going to fade, I just tab over between hits and when it flashy, I re-doey.

[Pulgasari]

2k is dead and gone. Even imgur is making it more difficult to upload and link gifs here. This forum will be 2k in 2 more years

hey boomer, on your phone you can just click Desktop Site in the hamburger menu to skip getting the app

[Jibartik]

To bad when I swap and pull a mob out of range to do that everyone on live, just follows me to that new mob and assists even though im the puller/backup utillity, not MA :smacks forehead:

[starkind]

hey boomer, on your phone you can just click Desktop Site in the hamburger menu to skip getting the app

They are starting to obduscate urls, redirect, and not provide..gif format. Unless you privately upload a downscaled lower rez 'hidden' version in a lot of cases.

For starters.

I'm good at using browser and app channeling is going to replace browsers soon were the website just blocks u on mobile or refuses to serve up html at all aside from a splash page. Then ppl make ways to circumvent that, but what I'm saying is pretty soon the desktops won't even be supported u will only have trusted computed apps thru the iTunes, or Microsoft, or Android channels.

But this site is kinda fine for the time being but it's dying.

Pantheon emu will for sure only really have discord app.

[Pulgasari]

They are starting to obduscate urls, redirect, and not provide..gif format. Unless you privately upload a downscaled lower rez 'hidden' version in a lot of cases.

For starters.

I'm good at using browser and app channeling is going to replace browsers soon were the website just blocks u on mobile or refuses to serve up html at all aside from a splash page. Then ppl make ways to circumvent that, but what I'm saying is pretty soon the desktops won't even be supported u will only have trusted computed apps thru the iTunes, or Microsoft, or Android channels.

But this site is kinda fine for the time being but it's dying.

Pantheon emu will for sure only really have discord app.

change the extension to .gif, boomer

[Arvan]

We all know star/recondo is the same person with multiple accounts but why does he quote himself and respond to himself? Is it some kind of severe mental disorder? Should we be finding him help?

[loramin]

The fact that you can find 1 guide only supports my argument, nobody knew about it nobody was creative enough.

Just so we're clear, your argument is that ... even though live had 20x (30x? 50x?) the number of Druids we have ... none of them were "creative enough" to A) go to the zones they were already XPing in (eg. South Karana), and B) cast two spells off their spell list (no goblin rings required) ... even though it would have given them noticeably faster XP?

[Jibartik]

obduscate

https://i.imgur.com/n3oC6A6.gif

[Jibartik]

Just so we're clear, your argument is that ... even though live had 20x (30x? 50x?) the number of Druids we have ... none of them were "creative enough" to A) go to the zones they were already XPing in (eg. South Karana), and B) cast two spells off their spell list (no goblin rings required) ... even though it would have given them noticeably faster XP?

YES i have made that so beyond clear.

Explain why for the grand majority of years there were no charming guids on P99?

For the same reason: players are lazy, and they dont think outside the box, when someone has already handed them a box.

Now they are handed tons of boxes, via youtube the wiki the forums and the collective knowledge that we ALL have after 10+ years.

[starkind]

change the extension to .gif, boomer

It doesn't always work unless sometimes u rescale and reupload

https://i.imgur.com/n3oC6A6.gif

My brain loves u

[loramin]

YES i have made that so beyond clear.

Explain why for the grand majority of years there were no charming guids on P99?

For the same reason: players are lazy, and they dont think outside the box, when someone has already handed them a box.

Now they are handed tons of boxes, via youtube the wiki the forums and the collective knowledge that we ALL have after 10+ years.

I guess this is the point where we agree to disagree. I think it's incredibly illogical to think that there were many multiples more Druids on live, all trying to earn XP as quickly as they could ... but not a one was willing to try using a spell on their list.

Or actually, it's worse than that: we know for a fact that there were Druid charm guides back then! So really you're arguing not only that people ignored their own spell list, but also that they ignored explicit guides telling them to charm ,,, despite the fact that it could mean faster XP.

That doesn't at all sounds like how EverQuest players (in any era) were.

[Danth]

Now, let me ask you something: did you play Street Fighter II? If so, you'd know that Ryu was a popular character, who had a powerful dragon punch attack. If I were to make a Street Fighter II emulator, and no one wanted to dragon punch with Ryu ... do I need to know the exact amount of damage for the dragon punch to know that I got wrong? Or can I tell that my emulator isn't emulating the original game properly, because people aren't playing my emulator the way they played the original?**

The millennials would just claim all the "boomers" were idiots doing it wrong all along. Remember the runaround we had with combat bind wound until it was demonstrated impossible? Problem here is charm wasn't impossible, merely less reliable than on P99, so finding the required proof is dramatically less likely.

In the meantime I'm content to live with it as-is. Most "random" spells--not just charm, but root, invisible, etc--are probably tuned a little too friendly on P99. Entire reason groups fell over themselves for wanting enchanter crowd control was because Mez was reliable with its fixed duration and didn't break early all the time. Don't even care about having an enchanter around on P99. I prefer such spells being a little too "friendly" over the alternative of hitting them with an excessive nerfbat and making them all worse than they should be. Yuck. Leave it as-is until such a time as evidence allows it to be made exact. That'll take more work than I'm willing to put in.

Nobody will ever convince me that the lull spell line is right here, either. I was a Paladin and I tried everything with it, including heavy charisma sets/buffs. It was crap because of the artificially inflated resist rate it had. There's another one that's probably too good on P99. Mezzes memblur absurdly often too. Enchanters happen to get most of this stuff so they see a uniquely strong power boost from it, but really almost everyone benefits from something or other. Careful what you wish for.

(**I quoted your post from the other thread here, Loramin, instead of in that thread because it's off-topic for that thread, a Mage thread originally, but on-topic for this one)

Danth

[drackgon]

Loramin, you ever thought, your own personal Experience and memories are different then what you truly remember 20 years ago. Also, you ask why did so many enchanters group back then? Simple

A) EQ IS AN MMO. Meaning players wanted to party and group and play with friends. Not everyone is a solo junkie like they do now(blame wiki for that, the thing you love so much)
B) Just bc there was lots of guides, and only 1 charm guide. Doesn't mean crap. How many gamers kept hidden knowledge to themselves? Cough Fire pots, Epic quest info. Not every game wants 2 share their knowledge. Hell I am sure in someones attic, is some nice little notebooks they wrote up guides for THEMSELVES, not to post on Gamefaqs, or Allak, or whatever site.

C) Internet- Have you tried charming while lagging like heck on Dial up? I am sure, how reliable is that vs now on cable connections. Charming is much safer now, bc you had random lag spikes, or DC's on dial up compared to now. Hence very very very few solo'd. (I remeber my uncles friend on his necro soloing alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the time in Lguk with his spec pet, was beyond jelly with my 14 year old eyes bleeding in nerdgasm)

D) Instead of focusing on Enchanters. How bout you focus on Necros.. Who still can't life tap most mobs in game. Bc of a damn Ivanders hoop(instead of nerfing it, they nerf'd a whole damn class oh and SKs) Also Cant send pets across zone like you could.. Wheres this classic fixes at??? Druid Track still wrong. Never had the pre hate event in kith. SSTAMINA?? Where is the drain when I swim? Or swing a sword? There are buffs/songs that was DESIGNED for this feature.

I hate how so much changes are based on info on wayback. Some yes I am sure is great info. But most of it is just bc Look one person said it. Its gotta be true.

[Lune]

I guess this is the point where we agree to disagree. I think it's incredibly illogical to think that there were many multiples more Druids on live, all trying to earn XP as quickly as they could ... but not a one was willing to try using a spell on their list.

Or actually, it's worse than that: we know for a fact that there were Druid charm guides back then! So really you're arguing not only that people ignored their own spell list, but also that they ignored explicit guides telling them to charm ,,, despite the fact that it could mean faster XP.

That doesn't at all sounds like how EverQuest players (in any era) were.

Early EQ players were bad compared to EQ players now due to the knowledge glut. I imagine most of them would try to charm a snake or something for gimmicks in groups but wouldn't think to make it into a leveling style, or they tried to do charm killing, tried to charm a high DB, found that it broke constantly, gave up, and went back to nuking shit down. I'm sure some druids were doing it for sure, but it was by no means common knowledge in early EQ. Don't forget the internet was very different then, the free flow of information more viscous.

[Lune]

Loramin, you ever thought, your own personal Experience and memories are different then what you truly remember 20 years ago. Also, you ask why did so many enchanters group back then? Simple

A) EQ IS AN MMO. Meaning players wanted to party and group and play with friends. Not everyone is a solo junkie like they do now(blame wiki for that, the thing you love so much)
B) Just bc there was lots of guides, and only 1 charm guide. Doesn't mean crap. How many gamers kept hidden knowledge to themselves? Cough Fire pots, Epic quest info. Not every game wants 2 share their knowledge. Hell I am sure in someones attic, is some nice little notebooks they wrote up guides for THEMSELVES, not to post on Gamefaqs, or Allak, or whatever site.

C) Internet- Have you tried charming while lagging like heck on Dial up? I am sure, how reliable is that vs now on cable connections. Charming is much safer now, bc you had random lag spikes, or DC's on dial up compared to now. Hence very very very few solo'd. (I remeber my uncles friend on his necro soloing alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the time in Lguk with his spec pet, was beyond jelly with my 14 year old eyes bleeding in nerdgasm)

D) Instead of focusing on Enchanters. How bout you focus on Necros.. Who still can't life tap most mobs in game. Bc of a damn Ivanders hoop(instead of nerfing it, they nerf'd a whole damn class oh and SKs) Also Cant send pets across zone like you could.. Wheres this classic fixes at??? Druid Track still wrong. Never had the pre hate event in kith. SSTAMINA?? Where is the drain when I swim? Or swing a sword? There are buffs/songs that was DESIGNED for this feature.

I hate how so much changes are based on info on wayback. Some yes I am sure is great info. But most of it is just bc Look one person said it. Its gotta be true.

This. You know how much I went LD? I went LD every time the phone rang. I'd have never charmed by myself lol

[strongNpretty]

The stamina fix would be a game changer for the better here. I would love to see stamina finally working again.. Strategies would change, items that seem useless would have use, it would be a nice change for sure.

[Lune]

The stamina fix would be a game changer for the better here. I would love to see stamina finally working again.. Strategies would change, items that seem useless would have use, it would be a nice change for sure.

zing please?

[drackgon]

Agred strong. It made playing tanks and shit that much different and fun. I loved it. You realize how much harder it is 2 actually gain threat when each swing burnt it.

[Jibartik]

I guess this is the point where we agree to disagree. I think it's incredibly illogical to think that there were many multiples more Druids on live, all trying to earn XP as quickly as they could ... but not a one was willing to try using a spell on their list.

Or actually, it's worse than that: we know for a fact that there were Druid charm guides back then! So really you're arguing not only that people ignored their own spell list, but also that they ignored explicit guides telling them to charm ,,, despite the fact that it could mean faster XP.

That doesn't at all sounds like how EverQuest players (in any era) were.

simply explain 1 thing:

Why was nobody was charming in the bear pits for 5-8 years on p99 except for a select few very elite players?

Or why people were barely if ever, even doing it in SK back then?

Because up until recently, then druid charming/enchanter charming was nerfed?

Everyone and their grandpa can defeat the solo artist challange now, but it was only a hyper select few for years, whats the deal?

[drackgon]

I for one remember Bear pits druids on ERollis Marr. It was like a niche spot that only druids dominated(that I personally seen).. Hence when I came to green I knew about it w/o wiki:)

[Danth]

Agred strong. It made playing tanks and shit that much different and fun. I loved it. You realize how much harder it is 2 actually gain threat when each swing burnt it.

The stamina bar might be "exhibit A" for why I'm leery of seeing changes made to random-duration spells without really good evidence: The past occasions P99 has tried to implement stamina based on "feel" it was so over-wrought and harsh that it was horrid and crippling and worse than simply not implementing it at all.

[drackgon]

Danth I would hope if they did it. Like test it a lot. I just remember swapping to 2handers with really slow delay. To regen. Then back to sword and board. A lot.

[starkind]

Were at the point where the best bet for a truly authentic classic experience is a retro game from scratch with the dice rolls incrementally tuned and the nerfs where necessary to get people more interested in grouping. Also some rigorous antibotting and anti boxing technology. Crypto. Pgp keys and authentication and not a free account for every Russian email address u can roll.

[strongNpretty]

zing please?

ZING!

[Jibartik]

They should have used the stamina bar as a mana bar for melee's and put disciplins in their spell book and let them use 8 buttons like casters prove me wrong!

[Lune]

They should have used the stamina bar as a mana bar for melee's and put disciplins in their spell book and let them use 8 buttons like casters prove me wrong!

woah there, sounds an awfully lot like WoW

[RecondoJoe]

having more than one button to push as a melee was the thing that got me hella krunk about everquest 2 / wow 20 years ago

[Jibartik]

woah there, sounds an awfully lot like WoW

rogue in wow is bet melee of all time! :o

https://i.imgur.com/s1D538v.png

[Toothed]

EQ2 maybe, wow trash

[Jibartik]

Stun, back flip over the enemy, back stab! Gougue the knee, jump behind tree, disappear, sneak around your confused bleeding fo, SAP! BACKSTAB! stab stab stab stab!

VICTORY!

man, that was the best, idc what anyone says.

[loramin]

wall of text
D) Instead of focusing on Enchanters.
more text


If you've paid any attention at all, you'd notice that most of my arguments have actually revolved around Druids.

[Baler]

If you've paid any attention at all, you'd notice that most of my arguments have actually revolved around Druids.

Not enough druid bug reports. I hear you loud and clear :o

[loramin]

**
Now, let me ask you something: did you play Street Fighter II? If so, you'd know that Ryu was a popular character, who had a powerful dragon punch attack. If I were to make a Street Fighter II emulator, and no one wanted to dragon punch with Ryu ... do I need to know the exact amount of damage for the dragon punch to know that I got wrong? Or can I tell that my emulator isn't emulating the original game properly, because people aren't playing my emulator the way they played the original?


The millennials would just claim all the "boomers" were idiots doing it wrong all along. Remember the runaround we had with combat bind wound until it was demonstrated impossible? Problem here is charm wasn't impossible, merely less reliable than on P99, so finding the required proof is dramatically less likely.

In the meantime I'm content to live with it as-is. Most "random" spells--not just charm, but root, invisible, etc--are probably tuned a little too friendly on P99. Entire reason groups fell over themselves for wanting enchanter crowd control was because Mez was reliable with its fixed duration and didn't break early all the time. Don't even care about having an enchanter around on P99. I prefer such spells being a little too "friendly" over the alternative of hitting them with an excessive nerfbat and making them all worse than they should be. Yuck. Leave it as-is until such a time as evidence allows it to be made exact. That'll take more work than I'm willing to put in.

Nobody will ever convince me that the lull spell line is right here, either. I was a Paladin and I tried everything with it, including heavy charisma sets/buffs. It was crap because of the artificially inflated resist rate it had. There's another one that's probably too good on P99. Mezzes memblur absurdly often too. Enchanters happen to get most of this stuff so they see a uniquely strong power boost from it, but really almost everyone benefits from something or other. Careful what you wish for.

(**I quoted your post from the other thread here, Loramin, instead of in that thread because it's off-topic for that thread, a Mage thread originally, but on-topic for this one)

Danth

https://i.imgur.com/X8Erw0N.gif

[Baler]

https://i.imgur.com/X8Erw0N.gif

https://i.imgur.com/PsJQE90.gif

[loramin]

https://i.imgur.com/PsJQE90.gif

Double Wheaton!

[loramin]

... well, in your post, with your avatar. When I quote you there's just one Wheaton, and I look like a moron :(

[Baler]

Double Wheaton!

Wheaton-ception

Naw dude I know where you're coming from though.
I just could not resist the opportunity to post that gif. :o

[Baler]

... well, in your post, with your avatar. When I quote you there's just one Wheaton, and I look like a moron :(

I got you,

this was my avatar at the time I posted that startrek gif above
https://i.imgur.com/KA6q7DE.png

:rolleyes: had to do it on another thread too for the entire thread to make sense.

Anyways, too much about me going on here.

[Sonderbeast]

HWill HWeaton

[starkind]

This forum needs Wheatonception.