breaking news: eq passes wow in total subs!

[Bhairava]

i just read on reddit that eq has more subs than wow and wow classic now!!! wow!!!!

asnolgold and other streamers switching to EQ LIVE P99 AL KABOR PROKECT ON TWITCH AS WE SPEAK!!!!!

[Bhairava]

A 20 YEAR OLD REVOLUTION IN GAMING IN THE MAKING.............. how will it go to stream EQ for 20 hours a day?????? ....... lets see!

[Baler]

what

[RecondoJoe]

I wonder if this is because of the fact that most people are running like 5 boxed characters on essentially free-to-play subscriptions?

[Pulgasari]

asnolgold and other streamers switching to EQ LIVE P99 AL KABOR PROKECT ON TWITCH AS WE SPEAK!!!!!

i fucking hope not 🚫

[Shawk]

You gotta lack a lot of intelligence to believe this shit, so I appreciate the sarcasm? :rolleyes:

I can see the whole of Daybreak having a decent amount of subs though, given they have a ton of IPs. But ya.. Still no where near what Live WoW gets all by itself.

FF15 has a decent amount but I don't know of any MMORPG that is doing "good", other than FF15, Maybe BDO is doing well.. Content creators are just that, creators of make belief content.

The asmon types who just constantly live in this narrative are comedic at best. Always sipping on a coke or a pepsi, talking about shit they will never understand properly.. Only 1 or 2 layers in, judging developer decisions.. Always funny how serious they are but they can always say they were trolling or doing it for content.

Id love for one of these guys to actually jump on Unreal Engine, and actually stick with it for more than a week (this is a joke, they never could..) all cynical gamers are a joke. You will notice they fawn over E3 games because they are oblivious and ignorant, not saying they are bad but they are consumers, they don't get to contribute to development outside their basic opinions on what they would consume.

My favorite are these content creators who make a living off calling all developers scam artists, any kick starter they see that isn't good is a scam.. Because they have no work ethic and have never developed anything in their lives, so they do not understand 1% of the struggle, they are a mass of bloated ignorance at this point.

Look at Notch etc etc.. They gave up, consumers of games are perfectly ignorant idiots 9.8 times out of 10, fortunately/unfortunately..

[RecondoJoe]

The asmon types who just constantly live in this narrative are comedic at best. Always sipping on a coke or a pepsi, talking about shit they will never understand properly.. Only 1 or 2 layers in, judging developer decisions.. Always funny how serious they are but they can always say they were trolling or doing it for content..

I cringed so hard when Asmon pretty much presented himself as an expert on what makes an MMO good while fully acknowledging that he never played EverQuest, and declared it bad because he didn't like the dated graphics. He then proceeded to describe a game that was exactly like EverQuest for what would make the ideal MMO.

Reminds me of my real-life friend who is always "shocked" at how sophisticated and advanced EverQuest is.. it's like in his mind he thinks that because it's an older game then it must be more simple than WoW and other modern MMOs. What he doesn't understand is that they actually dumbed WoW down to make it more user friendly, and that despite being "more modern" that it is actually way less complex.

Also the weird thing about people complaining about the graphics on EverQuest... I agree the graphics are bad when you look at the game, but when you play the game it has a way of sucking you into the game. I don't know how they do this, but I assume it has something to do with the camera angle and how dangerous and disorienting the environment is.

When I play EverQuest I get completely sucked in, the world around me doesn't even exist. When I play WoW I never feel like I'm in the game or that the world matters. Not even with classic WoW. Where you just run passed dozens of mobs without a care in the world. If you did that in EverQuest you would either die or end up with the most insane train ever.

[RecondoJoe]

I cringed so hard when Asmon pretty much presented himself as an expert on what makes an MMO good while fully acknowledging that he never played EverQuest

Like for real, if WoW is his idea of the best MMO of all time it makes me sad because he has no clue how subpar it is. Like everything that made thousands of people flock to WoW classic are even more prevalent in it's predecessor (EverQuest).

[Arvan]

Wow is dogshit as the designers of it said and i quote “ it was made simpler [than eq] for a teenage and middle aged housewife type audience” end quote

[RecondoJoe]

Wow is dogshit as the designers of it said and i quote “ it was made simpler [than eq] for a teenage and middle aged housewife type audience” end quote
I was in Basic Training when WoW came out, but I had played EverQuest 2 before going in, so when I got out all of my friends asked me if I had tried WoW yet and told me it was like EQ but "retard friendly."

[arsenalpow]

EQ is a better game, however WoW fits into a non toxic gaming lifestyle. Gotta be unemployed and medicated to hit your P99 goals.

[RecondoJoe]

I was in Basic Training when WoW came out, but I had played EverQuest 2 before going in, so when I got out all of my friends asked me if I had tried WoW yet and told me it was like EQ but "retard friendly."

And this is hilarious because WoW classic is considered ultra hard by WoW retail players, and this is part of what made it so appealing to them. A game most EQ players considered retard-mode = very challenging for retail WoW players.

And I know Starkind will point out that WoW is harder than EQ, and in some ways this is true... but also not really. My girlfriend hopped onto retail WoW and had fun. She played for a few hours and had a mount and her character looked cute.

So when WoW classic came out, she tried it, and was having fun at first. A few hours later she was ready to quit, and even complained about the fact that she didn't understand how she played retail WoW for only a couple of hours and accomplished so much more (for instance, having the mount was a big deal to her). She died frequently and really struggled to complete quests. It just wasn't for her.

I noticed on my own character that all of the people I leveled with in my 30s and 40s slowly weeded out, and I never saw them again. Was WoW classic 'harder' than retail? In terms of leveling, assuming you can't afford a Mara boost, I'm going to say yes... in terms of doing high-end raids... I want to say no.. like the mechanics in WoW classic aren't really challenging, but this doesn't change the fact that a lot people I know raided WoW classic for 2 years and still never got BIS every thing due to the random luck factor.

Or that certain guilds were extremely selective. That was part of why I started to lose interest. Being told that I had to play a Mage, Priest or Warrior to apply for any top guild just made me realize how garbage WoW classic was compared to true Vanilla WoW where no one really gave a fuck if you were a Moonkin Druid, or Ret Paladin as long as you showed up and tried.

[Jibartik]

1SVIWkiOgK4

[Mblake1981]

EQ is a better game, however WoW fits into a non toxic gaming lifestyle. Gotta be unemployed and medicated to hit your P99 goals.

Only if your goals require it, EQ can accommodate it.

If those guys are popular streamers they will get simp assistance and probably BIS in a year (give or take).

[RecondoJoe]

EQ is a better game, however WoW fits into a non toxic gaming lifestyle. Gotta be unemployed and medicated to hit your P99 goals.

Marginally true, but only if you want to be a PVPer.

I gave up raiding on WoW because I could not conform to a raid schedule while maintaining a full-time job.

PvP? Just log in and play whenever you want to.

[starkind]

daybreak only has one plan now and it includes like 3 games

[starkind]

Marginally true, but only if you want to be a PVPer.

I gave up raiding on WoW because I could not conform to a raid schedule while maintaining a full-time job.

PvP? Just log in and play whenever you want to.

yeah raiding on wow means locking the door and family gets wierded when u do that, you need hpyerfocus 100% raid attendance, and when ur guild does the raid 8 times they give up and go play alts so the window to actually raid in wow is pretty small, however there is a burgenouing community of letting pick up groups ruin your old raids, if they scaled better so 12 year olds can't 1 shot mobs, and there was more emphasis on achievs in the old raids it'd be perfect for a 1 hr event

[Shawk]

I cringed so hard when Asmon pretty much presented himself as an expert on what makes an MMO good while fully acknowledging that he never played EverQuest, and declared it bad because he didn't like the dated graphics. He then proceeded to describe a game that was exactly like EverQuest for what would make the ideal MMO.

Reminds me of my real-life friend who is always "shocked" at how sophisticated and advanced EverQuest is.. it's like in his mind he thinks that because it's an older game then it must be more simple than WoW and other modern MMOs. What he doesn't understand is that they actually dumbed WoW down to make it more user friendly, and that despite being "more modern" that it is actually way less complex.

Also the weird thing about people complaining about the graphics on EverQuest... I agree the graphics are bad when you look at the game, but when you play the game it has a way of sucking you into the game. I don't know how they do this, but I assume it has something to do with the camera angle and how dangerous and disorienting the environment is.

When I play EverQuest I get completely sucked in, the world around me doesn't even exist. When I play WoW I never feel like I'm in the game or that the world matters. Not even with classic WoW. Where you just run passed dozens of mobs without a care in the world. If you did that in EverQuest you would either die or end up with the most insane train ever.

Ya unfortunately Everquest is a really hard sell today. MMORPGs today, like Social Media focus on trying to draw someone in with subliminal ques rather than just getting someone into them for legit reasons on why they are actually fun to use.

For instance something like Fortnight, where you are rewarded just for logging in an playing, finishing dailies etc.. This was all thanks to World of Warcraft more than Fortnight, even though people will blame Fortnight and things like Call of Duty, it was WoW that originally tried this dopamine drip kind of content.

I find it really sad that my nephews won't really understand what it was like playing something like Neverwinter Nights or Ultima or Might and Magic because they simply can't find satisfaction from just playing the game, enjoying the story, completing the game.

But ya, today you will be told you are being "nostalgic" by saying anything positive about a game like Everquest let alone Dark age of Camelot, Ultima Online.. Meridian 59.. The vast majority of people have no idea what a good game is, they just know how to have their nervous system completely manipulated and abused..

But ya, a lot of people don't read books today either ;)

[Danth]

I cringed so hard when Asmon pretty much presented himself as an expert on what makes an MMO good while fully acknowledging that he never played EverQuest, and declared it bad because he didn't like the dated graphics. He then proceeded to describe a game that was exactly like EverQuest for what would make the ideal MMO.

Isn't that guy a professional streamer? I can see why a person doing that for a living wouldn't want to bother with an outdated-looking, slow-paced product. That job demands something that's not just entertaining as a user, but also entertaining to watch as a spectator sport of sorts. That is not EQ.

But ya, today you will be told you are being "nostalgic" by saying anything positive about a game like Everquest let alone Dark age of Camelot, Ultima Online.. Meridian 59..

Heck, you see that type of comment even on this forum. I assume it's a sort of projection at work: Folks who're here solely as "nostalgia tourists" can't fathom that others might actually like the game for its own sake.

[RecondoJoe]

Ya unfortunately Everquest is a really hard sell today. MMORPGs today, like Social Media focus on trying to draw someone in with subliminal ques rather than just getting someone into them for legit reasons on why they are actually fun to use.

For instance something like Fortnight, where you are rewarded just for logging in an playing, finishing dailies etc.. This was all thanks to World of Warcraft more than Fortnight, even though people will blame Fortnight and things like Call of Duty, it was WoW that originally tried this dopamine drip kind of content.

I find it really sad that my nephews won't really understand what it was like playing something like Neverwinter Nights or Ultima or Might and Magic because they simply can't find satisfaction from just playing the game, enjoying the story, completing the game.

But ya, today you will be told you are being "nostalgic" by saying anything positive about a game like Everquest let alone Dark age of Camelot, Ultima Online.. Meridian 59.. The vast majority of people have no idea what a good game is, they just know how to have their nervous system completely manipulated and abused..

But ya, a lot of people don't read books today either ;)
+1

Part of what made EverQuest a good game is the people who designed it set out to make an amazing game that they themselves would enjoy playing.

Companies don't set out to make good games anymore, they set out to make profitable games. At so many Q&As and annual reports to investors, Activision has straight up said they are very okay with releasing subpar, low-quality content as long as it's more profitable than releasing high-quality content that players love. They literally leave major bugs and balance issues in the game so they can later sell the fix as new content.

[Bardp1999]

Why is a company making money a bad thing? Evrequest was as much a money grab as anything else in the gaming industry and you are a retard if you think differently. Soon as the game took off they sold it to Sony as fast as they could for a large cash pay out.

[Shawk]

Making money off a game isn't a bad thing, it is when they turn the development of the game into a Early Access to where it takes 10 years to develop the final product.. So they have all the excuses in the world to just take forever, and keep collecting money, and keep paying bills.. They prolong development now so they can keep cashing in on the hype of its eventual release.. then they don't release anything. When you have a "fan" base of people, it is very easily to manipulate them like a cult.

I think the issue is on the creationist side of things in that it is kind of like if you show off something mid-creation, it is easy to be demoralized, it is a bad idea if you can't learn to not take criticism, if you take criticism from people who aren't part of the creation's development, you potentially taint production or the end result..

Now they have just turned that creation process into a profitable means of production, probably out of spite.. it is so backwards even if you think of it rightfully as a capitalistic sort of gain, it isn't capitalistic, it is as if they created a welfare form of state to where you have to feed them and cloth them so they will release your game, like they are holding it over you after you already gave them noney.. Just so weird... I wouldn't think this if I hadn't seen at least 5 MMORPGs doing this.

Star Citizen as amazing as it is is a good example in the sense of "insecurity", to actually just release the thing and call it a final product.. EQNext had this same issue when they copped out with Landmark.. It has been going on forever, like a weird new form of the TV sales commercials, Buy buy buy and get yourself a unique horse no one else will have when/if the game actually releases.. Everyone is just waiting for a MMORPG to actually release and it hasn't happened properly for the last 10 years now it seems.



Cynical Brit was screaming this shit long ago, we should never have been giving these people money before they finished the product, half our faults.

[Arteker]

Isn't that guy a professional streamer? I can see why a person doing that for a living wouldn't want to bother with an outdated-looking, slow-paced product. That job demands something that's not just entertaining as a user, but also entertaining to watch as a spectator sport of sorts. That is not EQ.



Heck, you see that type of comment even on this forum. I assume it's a sort of projection at work: Folks who're here solely as "nostalgia tourists" can't fathom that others might actually like the game for its own sake.

the hillarious part he did admit he saw his mother playing it for years and was what got him into wow

[Danth]

Part of what made EverQuest a good game is the people who designed it set out to make an amazing game that they themselves would enjoy playing.

Companies don't set out to make good games anymore, they set out to make profitable games. At so many Q&As and annual reports to investors, Activision has straight up said they are very okay with releasing subpar, low-quality content as long as it's more profitable than releasing high-quality content that players love. They literally leave major bugs and balance issues in the game so they can later sell the fix as new content.

Too much money involved nowadays. The cost of video game development has been ever-increasing for more than 40 years. A high-quality MMO-RPG these days can be expected to cost many tens of millions of dollars to produce and launch. It's one of the reasons so few of them are made at all anymore. Hence the accounts get involved and start veto'ing anything that doesn't seem safe or data-proven. Cuts both ways, too. EQ would've broke even with an average 50K user base over its projected 5 year lifespan, and matching Ultima Online's 100K would've made it a success. ~500K was a huge (and unanticipated) success. Today, costs have increased such that similar numbers aren't adequate anymore. You're not going to get the accountants out of it until you figure out a way to get the cost of video game development back under control.

Hence why mobile games are so common--they're cheap. You don't need millions of sales, and if you make one that flops it won't bankrupt your studio.

Danth

[RecondoJoe]

Making money off a game isn't a bad thing

The argument Blizzard used to make for years was that the subcription fee helped them develop new content

and now they've spent the last 10 years explaining that they can only offer new content or development via new expacs, so it's like... but i thought thats what you spent years saying the subscription fee was for? I would rather them just say its for greed straight out, but youll notice that subscription games are becoming less and less viable as time goes on

like when you pay a sub to play WOW you are not paying to play a higher quality game
you are paying to play a game that feels like it has less effort dumped into it than most F2P games on the market (Fortnite, League of Legends to name a few)...

like for years when I paid to play EQ or WoW it felt justified because you were truly getting an online gaming experience that was lightyears ahead of non-sub games

just doesnt feel like that anymore

and the original argument that sub pays for content development has long been abandoned

[RecondoJoe]

and now they've spent the last 10 years explaining that they can only offer new content or development via new expacs
like how many times have we been told that a certain class of spec will have to remain bad for years until the next expac comes out and theyll have enough resources to address the problem properly

i know in the case of the rogue they didnt do it

they claimed rogues were so bad at the end of cataclysm that they had to give them legendary daggers just for them to be viable, and that the next expac they would be fixed, but then the next expac came out (MoP) and rogues were so bad that even Reckful quit playing the class and became a warrior.... so here is like a 6 year window with lots of posts from Ghostcrawler promising that they would fix Rogues, and just to wait for the next expac etc. and then never following through with it

[Shawk]

Ya I got out around WotLK, was obvious where things were heading..

[RecondoJoe]

Ya I got out around WotLK, was obvious where things were heading..

I missed WOTLK and most of TBC completely thanks to deployments and army schools..

the funny part is when i played Cataclysm the general consensus was how terrible it was and how WoW was dying.. now like 10 years later people look back at Cataclysm as one of the last good expansions.... it's so funny because at the time it was considered bad... this is how bad things have gotten