April fools comes late!

[Grumph]

5 minutes after Takish ToD:

“Burn down method no longer allowed.”

That’s funny I don’t care who you are.

[remen]

"Tunare’s call seems to be broken. Until we determine what exactly is breaking her call, any entity that wishes to kill Tunare, must clear the zone."

Pure coincidence this was posted within minutes of Vanquish winning another Tunare.

Not to mention that just because other guilds cry that a mechanic is broken, doesn't mean it is actually broken.

[Akg49]

Just do the burn anyways, there are no rules on this server. Don't even drop the kite, just do whatever you want. It's not like you're going to get punished if you do it.

[zati]

darn. now players have to actually play the game to obtain loot. on a free to play server. imagine that.

[Croco]

Imagine exploiting a raid mechanic for over 6 months, knowing full well it's an exploit (aside from the 2-3 times it was done "legit" in that time period), then getting mad when the gm's finally acknowledge the issue and with the lightest fucking touch imaginable very politely tell you to not exploit until they figure out how/why the exploit works.

[Grumph]

Imagine exploiting a raid mechanic for over 6 months, knowing full well it's an exploit (aside from the 2-3 times it was done "legit" in that time period), then getting mad when the gm's finally acknowledge the issue and with the lightest fucking touch imaginable very politely tell you to not exploit until they figure out how/why the exploit works.

Can y’all quit being whinny bitches for one minute to enjoy a peak moment of ironic humor?

[hotkarlmarxbros]

Vanq guild leader recorded scripting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQl7yyJ0g4Q)a Bedain turn in while mid sentence on push to talk comms beating out 10 other sweaty af nerds with no clicking or button tapping being heard in the background, there is a rules change.

Vanq guild leader caught boxing and logging onto another guilds bots to train them, then bald-faced lies to the GMs about doing it, the server is told to 'be nice' to their guild after their slap on the wrist punishment. Said guild leader continues to raid on characters other than his own for the entire duration of his 'ban'.

Vanq guild leader(s) instruct key members to perform actions that result in the bugging out of the kite, while telling ordinary line members 'no, its cool and normal you can burn down tunare with like 70 people' for a dozen+ engages.

Autistic nerd perspective: hey, these guys are trying to rig the game against us!

Not ridiculous perspective: after cheating their ass off, Vanq is told to stop cheating.

[remen]

Regurgitating what your leadership tells you about this being an exploit doesn't make it an exploit. Learn to think for yourself. If what we are doing is an exploit, why haven't we all been suspended / banned?

Sorry you don't know how mechanics work.

[remen]

But hey, at least your camera men can take the night off!

[Croco]

Can y’all please stop being so hard on us as we continually train, exploit, and gaslight the server while giving absolutely no fucks that we're breaking rules almost every cycle, it's a really tough time of year.

You got it chief. My bad.

[Akg49]

Regurgitating what your leadership tells you about this being an exploit doesn't make it an exploit. Learn to think for yourself. If what we are doing is an exploit, why haven't we all been suspended / banned?

Sorry you don't know how mechanics work.

because there are no rules on this server. Except don't RMT. Want to kill Tunare while kiting the whole zone? Go for it.

GMs don't punish for exploits. This is a lawless server.

[Dman2701]

Please enlighten us on how this mechanic works

[Loke]

Curious how the call is broken. Specifically, what should be happening that isn't?

Yes, it is possible for the mobs to be delinked, and every time that has happened we've either dropped Tuna, or conceded the next 2. On the very last Tuna the mobs got delinked on our first attempt and we dropped it, necessitating a lengthy CR and having to set the whole thing up again.

So what is broken about it? If they delink, the guild just needs to drop, and if they don't delink, the call works as intended... as evidenced by the fact that it returns to the raid and wipes everyone that can't get out in time.

The fact that no one, not even Menden, has actually said how the call is broken is pretty sus. If you can't explain how it should work, and what is currently broken.. it sounds to me like a lot of people are just throwing accusations around.

[myrddraal]

When GMs are ex AM

[Baler]

I don't have a dog in this race other than the desire to play classic everquest.

Sounds like the staff are making more not classic rules in an attempt to halt human's ingenuity to succeed.

How long before raiders have call out every move they make in ooc and talk about why they do or don't agree with it being fair.

Blue is a fucking custom server it's not even classic everquest.

[Akg49]

Project 1999 hasn't been classic everquest since about 2014

[zati]

Curious how the call is broken.

Yes, it is possible for the mobs to be delinked.

i deleted the gibberish and found the answer for u

[Detoxx]

Just another example of Riot not being able to compete so they cry to the GMs that were cheating and when that is proven wrong, the rules get changed


Ring War, bag limits and now Tunare. Riot was never a guild built to compete and it really shows.

[Akg49]

Just another example of Riot not being able to compete so they cry to the GMs that were cheating and when that is proven wrong, the rules get changed


Ring War, bag limits and now Tunare. Riot was never a guild built to compete and it really shows.

you guys proved the rules don't matter, just kill Tuna already, kite the zone. There is no point in frapsing, there are no punishments.

Don't respect bag limits or RW roll either, there probably wouldn't be any punishments for going around those either.

[reznor_]

When GMs are ex AM

oh please. fucking twat

[reznor_]

Riot was never a guild built to compete and it really shows.

They weren't. Only formed to un-seat the throne, and held together by the thin glue of dkp. Miss y'all but we're having a blast on green :)

[Grumph]

you guys proved the rules don't matter, just kill Tuna already, kite the zone. There is no point in frapsing, there are no punishments.

Don't respect bag limits or RW roll either, there probably wouldn't be any punishments for going around those either.

Such a powerful persuasive writing! This dude got straight A’s in middle school English!

Only way to go stronger is to say someone has no balls if they don’t blatantly break every rule (you know - Be a real man!)

Can also follow that up with something about their mom also saying they should break these rules while you were sleeping with her.

[myrddraal]

Just another example of Riot not being able to compete so they cry to the GMs that were cheating and when that is proven wrong, the rules get changed


Ring War, bag limits and now Tunare. Riot was never a guild built to compete and it really shows.

Recorded breaking call on multiple occasions, admits to breaking call, keeps doing it, nothing comes of it but clear the zone.

Leader boxes and trains riot with its own boxes, personal accounts suspended but still allowed to play on shareds and lead, while getting riot bots banned. A punishment that’s more if a benefit than anything else.

Auto clicking 99% certainty with its consistency, a roll offered as an alternative.


It’s a hard time of the year to cheat, but not that hard since they won’t actually punish you.

[Grumph]

Recorded breaking call on multiple occasions, admits to breaking call, keeps doing it, nothing comes of it but clear the zone.

Leader boxes and trains riot with its own boxes, personal accounts suspended but still allowed to play on shareds and lead, while getting riot bots banned. A punishment that’s more if a benefit than anything else.

Auto clicking 99% certainty with its consistency, a roll offered as an alternative.


It’s a hard time of the year to cheat, but not that hard since they won’t actually punish you.

Is word salad a homoparhic remedy for hurt feelings?

[Akg49]

Can also follow that up with something about their mom also saying they should break these rules while you were sleeping with her.

GMs would ban you for that, they still enforce RMT.

[reznor_]

Is word salad a homoparhic remedy for hurt feelings?

When you're so unoriginal that you name your cleric "Ahealer" you search for meaning in the pithy.

[Dman2701]

Are you making fun of someone's name not being unoriginal, when your toon is named after a character from brawlhalla?

[Grumph]

"Deathtoll"

[myrddraal]

Is word salad a homoparhic remedy for hurt feelings?

It’s honestly just funny at this point. The GMs refuse to even dole out punishments when they said they would. People scream like babies about rooted dragons killing the server but quarter measured punishments when people cheat are really what’s driving people off. Blue will be as dead as red soon lol

[Grumph]

It’s honestly just funny at this point. The GMs refuse to even dole out punishments when they said they would. People scream like babies about rooted dragons killing the server but quarter measured punishments when people cheat are really what’s driving people off. Blue will be as dead as red soon lol

I just thought the timing was hilarious :-)

4 minutes after takish tod?

LOL

[reznor_]

Are you making fun of someone's name not being unoriginal, when your toon is named after a character from brawlhalla?

holy crap, I had to look that up. I can't believe Vraxx wasn't of my own making...god damn.

[reznor_]

When you're so unoriginal that you name your cleric "Ahealer" you search for meaning in the pithy.

You still suck, but I redact my statement about myrddraal

[Grumph]

Vanq guild leader recorded scripting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQl7yyJ0g4Q)a Bedain turn in while mid sentence on push to talk comms beating out 10 other sweaty af nerds with no clicking or button tapping being heard in the background, there is a rules change.

Vanq guild leader caught boxing and logging onto another guilds bots to train them, then bald-faced lies to the GMs about doing it, the server is told to 'be nice' to their guild after their slap on the wrist punishment. Said guild leader continues to raid on characters other than his own for the entire duration of his 'ban'.

Vanq guild leader(s) instruct key members to perform actions that result in the bugging out of the kite, while telling ordinary line members 'no, its cool and normal you can burn down tunare with like 70 people' for a dozen+ engages.

Autistic nerd perspective: hey, these guys are trying to rig the game against us!

Not ridiculous perspective: after cheating their ass off, Vanq is told to stop cheating.



Great job Murder She Wrote!

There's just one small detail missing from your eloquent fiction:

Riot spent 12 hours straight attempting to succeed at burning down Tunare.

And I wonder... how did they keep failing?

It should've be so easy since the train bugs out.

I guess yall wiped yourselfs time and time again just to prove a point. (make sense: yall's good natured interior righetouesness knows no bounds verilly!)

[Scalem]

Poor beta server.

[Croco]

Great job Murder She Wrote!

There's just one small detail missing from your eloquent fiction:

Riot spent 12 hours straight attempting to succeed at burning down Tunare.

And I wonder... how did they keep failing?

It should've be so easy since the train bugs out.

I guess yall wiped yourselfs time and time again just to prove a point. (make sense: yall's good natured interior righetouesness knows no bounds verilly!)

The train bugs out when you purposefully bug it out. You should ask your guild leader and kiters about it. Ask them why they kept kiting everything around the lake and got most mobs stuck under the world last time you guys killed tunare before today, remember the one where you guys had the zone for 12 hours and couldn't get it done then had to spend more time in there to finally win and you decided fuck it enough is enough lets just exploit this shit and get it done. Or how about the time where galach said not to exploit the call and bug the train and less than 8 hours later you did, and the gm's didn't do shit about it? Vanq's greatest hits right there.

[reznor_]

The train bugs out when you purposefully bug it out. You should ask your guild leader and kiters about it. Ask them why they kept kiting everything around the lake and got most mobs stuck under the world last time you guys killed tunare before today, remember the one where you guys had the zone for 12 hours and couldn't get it done then had to spend more time in there to finally win and you decided fuck it enough is enough lets just exploit this shit and get it done. Or how about the time where galach said not to exploit the call and bug the train and less than 8 hours later you did, and the gm's didn't do shit about it? Vanq's greatest hits right there.

Keep posting about how the GMs are in cahoots with Vanquish, see how that plays out for you.

[Croco]

Keep posting about how the GMs are in cahoots with Vanquish, see how that plays out for you.

Tell me where I specifically said that in what you quoted. I said tunare was exploited after a gm said not to then nothing happened to the guild that exploited. I'm just stating facts...

[Akg49]

Keep posting about how the GMs are in cahoots with Vanquish, see how that plays out for you.

GMs aren't in cahoots they just don't have any balls. Lawless server do what you like.

[Nutsax]

Tell me where I specifically said that in what you quoted. I said tunare was exploited after a gm said not to then nothing happened to the guild that exploited. I'm just stating facts...

Vraxx is just a grasshopper trying to imitate his sensei; intentionally misconstruing what you wrote, paraphrasing it, and arguing against his malformed interpretation of what you stated.

[Senix]

Burn method pretty easy when you got 150 people.

[Ludorf]

Burn method pretty easy when you got 150 people.

loll another crying baby from riot

last burn down we did we had 101... 38rogues 19monks 9pets 8clrs

[Baler]

If it was possible during classic 1999-2001 it should be possible on Project 1999.

They weren't. Only formed to un-seat the throne, and held together by the thin glue of dkp. Miss y'all but we're having a blast on green :)

For those arguing about riot, This^
Riot was created by people who wanted to stop the big dawg(s) from taking all the good raid targets. Unfortunately there was nothing humble about how they ended up achieving this. And they themselves became another public enemy.

I knew the people who formed riot, they are not bad people and in my opinion achieved their goal. It's everyone else who jumped ship to join riot for pixels or revenge on other big guilds which gave up their uniqueness. It was literally a live long enough to see themselves become the villain situation.

Consider Green
Consider Red

[RecondoJoe]

Consider Green
Consider Red

Consider Mischief
Consider Thornblade

[getsome]

On TLPs tunare can be manipulated so it only calls the trash one time. No need to hold a kite.

Entire raid takes about 45 minutes.

[RecondoJoe]

That's pretty cool. Since PoG gear will be trade-able on Mischief and Thornblade, I imagine most players will see clearing the trash as profitable and actually wonder if Thurg armor will be essentially obsolete as a result?

[Grumph]

That's pretty cool. Since PoG gear will be trade-able on Mischief and Thornblade, I imagine most players will see clearing the trash as profitable and actually wonder if Thurg armor will be essentially obsolete as a result?

Tradable loot?

Not classic.

[Boptop]

Tradable loot?

Not classic.

boring

[Ennewi]

If it was possible during classic 1999-2001 it should be possible on Project 1999.

Not according to McQuaid.

[RecondoJoe]

Tradable loot?

Not classic.
Literally one of the only things that made EverQuest cooler than WoW was the fact that many of the best items in the entire game were trade-able. As more and more loot became no drop or had level requirements on it, I think you could argue that that is when the game became non-classic. Even by P99's own standards.

[Pulgasari]

Literally one of the only things that made EverQuest cooler than WoW was the fact that many of the best items in the entire game were trade-able. As more and more loot became no drop or had level requirements on it, I think you could argue that that is when the game became non-classic. Even by P99's own standards.

Kunark was non-classic. And so on.

[mycoolrausch]

I don't have a dog in this race other than the desire to play classic everquest.

Sounds like the staff are making more not classic rules in an attempt to halt human's ingenuity to succeed.

How long before raiders have call out every move they make in ooc and talk about why they do or don't agree with it being fair.

Blue is a fucking custom server it's not even classic everquest.

Nobody is stopping the 20 immersed playmakers on blue from making their own eqemu and squeezing out the last frame perfect pixel of play if they want to. There's other people on the server to consider.

[Detoxx]

The train bugs out when you purposefully bug it out. You should ask your guild leader and kiters about it. Ask them why they kept kiting everything around the lake and got most mobs stuck under the world last time you guys killed tunare before today, remember the one where you guys had the zone for 12 hours and couldn't get it done then had to spend more time in there to finally win and you decided fuck it enough is enough lets just exploit this shit and get it done. Or how about the time where galach said not to exploit the call and bug the train and less than 8 hours later you did, and the gm's didn't do shit about it? Vanq's greatest hits right there.

1. No we do not "intentionally bug them under the world"
2. Even mobs under the world will still kill their targets once they are in so no benefit.
3. Weve sent several fraps of fails and successes on Tunare to the GMs. Hopefully they dont buy into your desperate rhetoric because you guys are just salty losers.
4. Lol at people spending their Saturday nights frapsing another guild raid and crying to the GMs, pretty pathetic

[Horza]

pretty pathetic

https://i.imgur.com/KR8zSH1.png

[denner]

Riot was never a guild built to compete and it really shows.

i think this is what my English teacher in school would have called an example of irony

[Viscere]

https://i.imgur.com/KR8zSH1.png

This is the best screenshot in all of p99's screenshots

I'm proud of detoxx and his ability to rustle jimmies year after year while remaining #1

[Croco]

1. No we do not "intentionally bug them under the world"
2. Even mobs under the world will still kill their targets once they are in so no benefit.
3. Weve sent several fraps of fails and successes on Tunare to the GMs. Hopefully they dont buy into your desperate rhetoric because you guys are just salty losers.
4. Lol at people spending their Saturday nights frapsing another guild raid and crying to the GMs, pretty pathetic

1) yes you did, it couldn't have been more obvious

2) what part of bugged don't you understand?

3) we've sent a TON of fraps of your cheats and very few legit burns of tunare to the gms. hopefully they don't buy into your desperate rhetoric because you guys are just gaslighting cheaters

4) yeah it sucks when your main competition has absolutely zero qualms with intentionally breaking rules, exploiting, and training their way to victory so we have to record everything, it's pretty pathetic

[Hideousclaw]

1) yes you did, it couldn't have been more obvious

2) what part of bugged don't you understand?

3) we've sent a TON of fraps of your cheats and very few legit burns of tunare to the gms. hopefully they don't buy into your desperate rhetoric because you guys are just gaslighting cheaters

4) yeah it sucks when your main competition has absolutely zero qualms with intentionally breaking rules, exploiting, and training their way to victory so we have to record everything, it's pretty pathetic

lol

[Croco]

lol

How many of your people are going to get PNP vacations for kiting vindi? I'll set the line at 2.5, you want the over or under?

[remen]

How many of your people are going to get PNP vacations for kiting vindi? I'll set the line at 2.5, you want the over or under?

Stones, glass houses

One of the big differences between Kriot and Vanquish is that we don't act sanctimonious as shit.

[Croco]

Stones, glass houses

One of the big differences between Kriot and Vanquish is that we don't act sanctimonious as shit.

Yeah instead of that you all give a master class in gaslighting. You'll point out a single instance of something that some riot member did, for which they were immediately reprimanded, and in some instances guild removed, and use that as justification to explain away blatant and rampant behavior from your side. Whether it be some form of cheating or constant training, or most recently the kiting of mobs like CT and now multiple vindis.

You'll cling to these very rare instances where someone in riot does something against the rules as a way to explain away countless instances of similar (usually much worse) behavior on your side. I am by the way not trying to defend riot in any way if we break rules. If that happens we should be punished the same as anyone else.

All the while you have leaders and representatives that speak in the UN as if they'll score points for being complete fucking morons and jackasses. They constantly harass, make fun of, talk down to, and just generally act like wannabe mafioso dons to almost every other guild in the UN. And I haven't even begun to talk about what your leaders have been caught saying on recording.

The fact that your guild is still allowed to exist and be lead by the person it's lead by is an embarrassment to the server and speaks to the lack of accountability and penalties in the current era.

[Grumph]

How many of your people are going to get PNP vacations for kiting vindi? I'll set the line at 2.5, you want the over or under?

Didn’t y’all kite KT all the way back to his throne room?

It’s ok. 5 racers? Now you can practice.

Honestly it was probably Kittens fault - they must’ve messed up your execution in a competitive engage.

Good thing they won’t be invited to ‘help’ y’all on the freebies!

[Croco]

Didn’t y’all kite KT all the way back to his throne room?

It’s ok. 5 racers? Now you can practice.

Honestly it was probably Kittens fault - they must’ve messed up your execution in a competitive engage.

Good thing they won’t be invited to ‘help’ y’all on the freebies!

No we did not. You obviously aren't fully up to date on all the pathing issues in kael so you should probably go do some research.

Yeah 5 racers, man too bad you guys can't count. Sucks to suck.

[Grumph]

No we did not. You obviously aren't fully up to date on all the pathing issues in kael so you should probably go do some research.

Yeah 5 racers, man too bad you guys can't count. Sucks to suck.

Research. Ok here goes!

“Our primary tagger (Zssah) ran towards the throne room”

… good defense. No one ever expects the unapologetic bald faced confession.


Meanwhile, still non commital on letting Kittens in on the next few KTs?

[Croco]

Research. Ok here goes!

“Our primary tagger (Zssah) ran towards the throne room”

… good defense. No one ever expects the unapologetic bald faced confession.


Meanwhile, still non commital on letting Kittens in on the next few KTs?

Yes he ran towards the throne room because that's where KT had warped the most recent time the pathing was fucked and he warped through a wall. He never made it all the way to the throne room though and no one at the time had any idea where KT was so he was going off last known info of fucked pathing. But yeah of course it's riot's fault the pathing is all haynar'd.

Kittens is perfectly capable of competing for KT. In fact they do race for KT often and as far as I know we've never teamed up with them for KT.

You're running out of straws to desperately grasp at.

[Ennewi]

4. Lol at people logging into another guild's account to train them and lying to the GMs, pretty pathetic

Ftfy

[remen]

Yeah instead of that you all give a master class in gaslighting. You'll point out a single instance of something that some riot member did, for which they were immediately reprimanded, and in some instances guild removed, and use that as justification to explain away blatant and rampant behavior from your side. Whether it be some form of cheating or constant training, or most recently the kiting of mobs like CT and now multiple vindis.

You'll cling to these very rare instances where someone in riot does something against the rules as a way to explain away countless instances of similar (usually much worse) behavior on your side. I am by the way not trying to defend riot in any way if we break rules. If that happens we should be punished the same as anyone else.

All the while you have leaders and representatives that speak in the UN as if they'll score points for being complete fucking morons and jackasses. They constantly harass, make fun of, talk down to, and just generally act like wannabe mafioso dons to almost every other guild in the UN. And I haven't even begun to talk about what your leaders have been caught saying on recording.

The fact that your guild is still allowed to exist and be lead by the person it's lead by is an embarrassment to the server and speaks to the lack of accountability and penalties in the current era.

Chill, all I said is that there have been infractions by both guilds, the difference being that you guys act like your shit don't stink and you are the server heroes who do know wrong. Your post proves my point.

The stones in glass houses comment was specifically in regards to kiting vindi, your guild has done that as well.

And regarding the KT pull, that is the only pull I have seen bug out like that, and then also go backwards to the throne afterwards. Every other KT pull has come in clean, and I've pulled KDT, fjoker, and faction mobs from the KT throne room and never had anything like that happen.

So, either you guys exploited the pathing on purpose to kite it to buy more time, or your pullers were clueless and kited it by accident. Either way, it's one of the more egregious kites I've seen and the fact that your guild hasn't conceded says a lot about your leadership.

[Slack]

One week after the Kite/stall you are referring to Remen. Vanq pulled KT with too many runners. On that exact Fraps, KT bugs at snowpiles for about 10 secs then warps back out somewhere up at 4-way, prolonging the pull with about 40 secs total. Guess not a kite/stall?

Its literally right there in the Fraps posted in the UN concerns. So I guess you werent on that pull right, since you never seen it happen?

[Samoht]

One week after the Kite/stall you are referring to Remen. Vanq pulled KT with too many runners. On that exact Fraps, KT bugs at snowpiles for about 10 secs then warps back out somewhere up at 4-way, prolonging the pull with about 40 secs total. Guess not a kite/stall?

Its literally right there in the Fraps posted in the UN concerns. So I guess you werent on that pull right, since you never seen it happen?

Warping is one thing. Riot pullers taking it back towards the throne room is something else entirely. Also, Vanquish already conceded 2 KTs for that pull. Where are Riot's concessions?

[Bhairava]

can we just ban everyone that raids

would fix up the "competitive" """scene""" pretty quickly

[Croco]

Warping is one thing. Riot pullers taking it back towards the throne room is something else entirely. Also, Vanquish already conceded 2 KTs for that pull. Where are Riot's concessions?

More fantastic gaslighting. Do you guys hold classes on this in vanq discord? Y'all are getting good.

Remen I don't think you're aware that they patched the pathing in kael in early May. Which is when all the current fuckery started happening.

Samoht, we never "took it back towards throne room", no one knew where the fuck KT was and the very preceding kt he had warped all the way back to throne room which is what our tagger assumed had happened based on that prior example. Which I already explained in a previous post. Do you guys have problems with reading comprehension? You all conceded 2x KT because you raced with 5. But hey you guys don't have to learn to count for the foreseeable future. Saved by your favorite gm!

[Bhairava]

if you guys like competing so much why dont you play on red and just fight for the mobs

[NotCaros]

More fantastic gaslighting. Do you guys hold classes on this in vanq discord? Y'all are getting good.

Remen I don't think you're aware that they patched the pathing in kael in early May. Which is when all the current fuckery started happening.

Samoht, we never "took it back towards throne room", no one knew where the fuck KT was and the very preceding kt he had warped all the way back to throne room which is what our tagger assumed had happened based on that prior example. Which I already explained in a previous post. Do you guys have problems with reading comprehension? You all conceded 2x KT because you raced with 5. But hey you guys don't have to learn to count for the foreseeable future. Saved by your favorite gm!


Media talking heads: "We never took it back towards throne room"


Actual court documents: "Our primary tagger (Zssah) ran towards the throne room”

[NotCaros]

if you guys like competing so much why dont you play on red and just fight for the mobs



You think segregation or apartheid solves anything?

Shame.

[Samoht]

Samoht, we never "took it back towards throne room"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm64nvT4e8k

When this video starts, KT is very clearly visible and pathing towards the throne room.

Who needs gaslighting when you can straight up lie about everything.

[Bhairava]

You think segregation or apartheid solves anything?

Shame.

yes

[Bhairava]

when i segregate the foxes and the hens, my hens stop disappearing, it's weird i cant figure out whats going on

[Croco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm64nvT4e8k

When this video starts, KT is very clearly visible and pathing towards the throne room.

Who needs gaslighting when you can straight up lie about everything.

Saying we "took it back towards throne room" implies intent and that we knew what was going on. We didn't know where KT was. We assumed he popped back at throne because he had just did that the very last pull. So did KT path back towards throne? Yes. Did we "take it back towards throne room"? No we did not. We didn't purposefully pull/kite him back that direction because, again, we didn't know where the fuck KT was.

You can keep beating this dead horse but it's just gaslighting and arguing disingenuously. Unlike when you guys kited statue way back towards EW zoneline, well over the line where you're required to drop it if it goes past, we didn't know what was going on with the pull because of the haynar'd pathing.

[Naethyn]

We aren't allowed to kill Zlandicar at ent, because it warps. We shouldn't be able to kill anything in Kael at ent, because it warps.

[Naethyn]

KT should be killed at archway. Statue should be killed past see invis.

[Samoht]

Did we "take it back towards throne room"? No we did not.

Then who did? I believe the screen shot clearly shows it was Zssah, who is <Riot>. Are you arguing on behalf of a different entity?

You preach all this shit about gaslighting, and the way you keep doing it makes me believe that your incapable of self-awareness. This is called projecting.

Seek help.

[Drakborn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm64nvT4e8k

When this video starts, KT is very clearly visible and pathing towards the throne room.

Who needs gaslighting when you can straight up lie about everything.

omg... who plays with a ui like that? you cant see anything, half the screen is chat boxes.

[NotCaros]

when i segregate the foxes and the hens, my hens stop disappearing, it's weird i cant figure out whats going on


So some “types” of humans are like foxes

And some are like hens?

Hey at least you didn’t go with ‘hawks’ vs. ‘rats.’

…I guess that’s a certain kinda progress.

But I think you need to watch Zootopia dude.

[NotCaros]

Saying we "took it back towards throne room" implies intent and that we knew what was going on. We didn't know where KT was. We assumed he popped back at throne because he had just did that the very last pull. So did KT path back towards throne? Yes. Did we "take it back towards throne room"? No we did not. We didn't purposefully pull/kite him back that direction because, again, we didn't know where the fuck KT was.

You can keep beating this dead horse but it's just gaslighting and arguing disingenuously. Unlike when you guys kited statue way back towards EW zoneline, well over the line where you're required to drop it if it goes past, we didn't know what was going on with the pull because of the haynar'd pathing.


‘We didn’t do it intentionally!’

Hilarious. No - an unintentional kite is still concession worthy just like an unintentional 5th racer, IMO.

But whatever.

“5 racers is malicious and intentional cheating on your part!”

And

“yeah, we brought KT to 4-way, then back to throne room, then back to Wl and killed him - but no need to concede because it wasn’t on purpose!”

Who could possibly ask for more good faith negotiation!

[remen]

One week after the Kite/stall you are referring to Remen. Vanq pulled KT with too many runners. On that exact Fraps, KT bugs at snowpiles for about 10 secs then warps back out somewhere up at 4-way, prolonging the pull with about 40 secs total. Guess not a kite/stall?

Its literally right there in the Fraps posted in the UN concerns. So I guess you werent on that pull right, since you never seen it happen?

We conceded two KTs for that pull, because we are capable of admitting a mistake and taking ownership of it. Also, there is a huge difference between the mob bugging out at snowpiles for ten seconds and then resuming being pulled directly to the zone line after it stops bugging out.

In the Riot pull, KT is bugged out for a full minute inside the wall, falling under the world and doing all kinds of wierd stuff I have never seen happen, so I don't know what type of manipulation y'all were doing to make that happen. But even more importantly, once he finally does pop back out around 4 way, he runs all the way back to the ice bridge near his castle, delaying the pull another 30 seconds.

Your guild's kite was way more egregious, and went beyond the warping / pathing issues. Yet you haven't conceded anything. Explain?

More fantastic gaslighting. Do you guys hold classes on this in vanq discord? Y'all are getting good.

Remen I don't think you're aware that they patched the pathing in kael in early May. Which is when all the current fuckery started happening.

Samoht, we never "took it back towards throne room", no one knew where the fuck KT was and the very preceding kt he had warped all the way back to throne room which is what our tagger assumed had happened based on that prior example. Which I already explained in a previous post. Do you guys have problems with reading comprehension? You all conceded 2x KT because you raced with 5. But hey you guys don't have to learn to count for the foreseeable future. Saved by your favorite gm!

I don't know what gaslighting is, but I am more than aware of the "pathing fixes" that occured during early May and I am saying that I have never seen anything like what happened during your guild's KT pull.

Saying we "took it back towards throne room" implies intent and that we knew what was going on. We didn't know where KT was. We assumed he popped back at throne because he had just did that the very last pull. So did KT path back towards throne? Yes. Did we "take it back towards throne room"? No we did not. We didn't purposefully pull/kite him back that direction because, again, we didn't know where the fuck KT was.

You can keep beating this dead horse but it's just gaslighting and arguing disingenuously. Unlike when you guys kited statue way back towards EW zoneline, well over the line where you're required to drop it if it goes past, we didn't know what was going on with the pull because of the haynar'd pathing.

It doesn't matter whether you "took it back towards the throne room" intentionally or whether he went back to the throne room because your puller assumed he would pop there. I believe you that it wasn't on purpose, but the fact remains that the mob was kited. Whether intentional or not, when a mob is kited you are supposed to drop it. Or if you decide to kill it anyways, then you concede the next two. This is so standard I honestly can't figure out why y'all refuse to concede.

And because you brought it up, on that statue pull you referred to, we conceded two statues because of our mistake. It wasn't an intentional kite, but it was kited so we did the right thing and conceded the next two.

[Bhairava]

So some “types” of humans are like foxes

And some are like hens?

Hey at least you didn’t go with ‘hawks’ vs. ‘rats.’

…I guess that’s a certain kinda progress.

But I think you need to watch Zootopia dude.

We were talking about segregating the 'hardcore' raiders from the normal players by sending them to red.

But even if we weren't, is anything I said actually untrue? If you make foxes live in the hen house long enough, will they stop eating chickens and eggs?

Do you think that if I watch this animated movie for children, I will stop thinking that different types of things indeed behave differently?

Your ancestors knew this, why don't you? Being able to discern good from bad, and safe from dangerous is a rather important skill for a man to have (if you do identify yourself as such).

[Croco]

‘We didn’t do it intentionally!’

Hilarious. No - an unintentional kite is still concession worthy just like an unintentional 5th racer, IMO.

But whatever.

“5 racers is malicious and intentional cheating on your part!”

And

“yeah, we brought KT to 4-way, then back to throne room, then back to Wl and killed him - but no need to concede because it wasn’t on purpose!”

Who could possibly ask for more good faith negotiation!

Yes obviously it was Riot's fault that the pathing is fucked and that KT warped and we had no idea where he went. Clearly we shouldn't have gone with last known information of him warping back to throne room. How foolish of us!

Notice how the 2 times vanq had completely fucked pulls, once on KT and once on Statue I believe(?) could've been 2x KT I'm not remembering perfectly (he popped out at 4 way in that building way on the other side across from the bank for one of them), Riot didn't petition you for it. Even though your tagger ended up going back towards 4 way to track the mob down. It was no fault of your own, just like it wasn't Riot's fault during that pull.

You can't be held to account for variables that literally no one knew about because the pathing changes were still very fresh and new. There's a reason your favorite GM has decided to implement a 5 minute FTE lockout currently in kael and why menden had to give updated advice about how to mitigate the warping issues, advice which didn't even work btw as we've since babied a few KT's and Statue's past that area with the person staying close/within LoS and it did nothing to solve the warping issue.

I'm not sure why you put those hypotheticals in quotes. As far as I'm aware no one said those things as you have them written. There's a difference between having pulls go awry because of fucked pathing that was still very new and racing with 5 after you guys made a huge fucking deal about "following server rules", which is a max racer limit of 4 currently. This is the bad faith arguing that you all excel at. You take 2 things that aren't similar and tie them together as if the situations are an exact parallel.

This current iteration of pulls being fucked because of warping is relatively new and has happened to both guilds. Difference being vanq is the only one to petition over it so far. Hell in the fraps you provide one of your own people can be heard on voice saying "yeah it's not their fault". Racing 5 however is a personal failure. No faulty mechanics or recent patch have anything to do with your inability to count.

Remen:
If you haven't seen that fucked pathing happening recently then you haven't been paying attention. It's happened to both riot and vanq. Also most of the time when we have trouble getting a boss through 4way and past snow piles it always seems to be when random vanq members have put agro into the mob/train, but on all of your recent statue pulls riot doesn't fuck with your pulls for any reason and wow so weird they come in nice and clean.

There's nothing standard about what has been happening with warping in kael so saying that the standard of kill 1 concede 2 applies is just ignoring a completely new set of variables that neither guild had any hand in creating. What should've happened was both guilds going to the GM's to ask what the deal was and a little benefit of the doubt given to both parties from each other, like we gave you guys when you've had warping issues just recently.

Credit where it's due you guys did concede 2x statue. Definitely not how that should've played out though as it was clear as crystal you took statue way past the line. That statue should've been dropped then you probably wouldn't have needed to concede any statues. You all killed it knowing full well it was an egregious kite that went way over the line. You had a whole team of people up there trying to pull him back.

Again I'll make the distinction because you guys keep parroting false information, you didn't concede 2 kt's for the pull, you conceded them because of 5 racers.

[Yinein]

Imagine writing a full page biography about raid targets 7 years into velious when no one cares, hope that helps .

PS- sorry you don't got warder loot

[Pulgasari]

We were talking about segregating the 'hardcore' raiders from the normal players by sending them to red.

But even if we weren't, is anything I said actually untrue? If you make foxes live in the hen house long enough, will they stop eating chickens and eggs?

Do you think that if I watch this animated movie for children, I will stop thinking that different types of things indeed behave differently?

Your ancestors knew this, why don't you? Being able to discern good from bad, and safe from dangerous is a rather important skill for a man to have (if you do identify yourself as such).

it's a 'should' argument, the silliest type of foolishness. :p

[greasemonk]

All you mother fuckers need Jesus.

[NotCaros]

We were talking about segregating the 'hardcore' raiders from the normal players by sending them to red.

But even if we weren't, is anything I said actually untrue? If you make foxes live in the hen house long enough, will they stop eating chickens and eggs?

Do you think that if I watch this animated movie for children, I will stop thinking that different types of things indeed behave differently?

Your ancestors knew this, why don't you? Being able to discern good from bad, and safe from dangerous is a rather important skill for a man to have (if you do identify yourself as such).


Your really doubling down on segregation?

That’s a take I didn’t expect in 2021 the year of our Lord.

[NotCaros]

Yes obviously it was Riot's fault that the pathing is fucked and that KT warped and we had no idea where he went. Clearly we shouldn't have gone with last known information of him warping back to throne room. How foolish of us!

Notice how the 2 times vanq had completely fucked pulls, once on KT and once on Statue I believe(?) could've been 2x KT I'm not remembering perfectly (he popped out at 4 way in that building way on the other side across from the bank for one of them), Riot didn't petition you for it. Even though your tagger ended up going back towards 4 way to track the mob down. It was no fault of your own, just like it wasn't Riot's fault during that pull.

You can't be held to account for variables that literally no one knew about because the pathing changes were still very fresh and new. There's a reason your favorite GM has decided to implement a 5 minute FTE lockout currently in kael and why menden had to give updated advice about how to mitigate the warping issues, advice which didn't even work btw as we've since babied a few KT's and Statue's past that area with the person staying close/within LoS and it did nothing to solve the warping issue.

I'm not sure why you put those hypotheticals in quotes. As far as I'm aware no one said those things as you have them written. There's a difference between having pulls go awry because of fucked pathing that was still very new and racing with 5 after you guys made a huge fucking deal about "following server rules", which is a max racer limit of 4 currently. This is the bad faith arguing that you all excel at. You take 2 things that aren't similar and tie them together as if the situations are an exact parallel.

This current iteration of pulls being fucked because of warping is relatively new and has happened to both guilds. Difference being vanq is the only one to petition over it so far. Hell in the fraps you provide one of your own people can be heard on voice saying "yeah it's not their fault". Racing 5 however is a personal failure. No faulty mechanics or recent patch have anything to do with your inability to count.

Remen:
If you haven't seen that fucked pathing happening recently then you haven't been paying attention. It's happened to both riot and vanq. Also most of the time when we have trouble getting a boss through 4way and past snow piles it always seems to be when random vanq members have put agro into the mob/train, but on all of your recent statue pulls riot doesn't fuck with your pulls for any reason and wow so weird they come in nice and clean.

There's nothing standard about what has been happening with warping in kael so saying that the standard of kill 1 concede 2 applies is just ignoring a completely new set of variables that neither guild had any hand in creating. What should've happened was both guilds going to the GM's to ask what the deal was and a little benefit of the doubt given to both parties from each other, like we gave you guys when you've had warping issues just recently.

Credit where it's due you guys did concede 2x statue. Definitely not how that should've played out though as it was clear as crystal you took statue way past the line. That statue should've been dropped then you probably wouldn't have needed to concede any statues. You all killed it knowing full well it was an egregious kite that went way over the line. You had a whole team of people up there trying to pull him back.

Again I'll make the distinction because you guys keep parroting false information, you didn't concede 2 kt's for the pull, you conceded them because of 5 racers.


Everyone’s fault but yours.

Don’t know why I didn’t think of that.

[Bhairava]

Your really doubling down on segregation?

That’s a take I didn’t expect in 2021 the year of our Lord.

current year isnt an argument

you just don't have the mental capacity to actually address anything that I say.

[Bhairava]

'watch zootopia'

'wow yikes its 2021'

classical western liberalism diluted into it's purest form, mindless and anarchic and without principal

[NotCaros]

current year isnt an argument

you just don't have the mental capacity to actually address anything that I say.


You think you have some kinda “IQ” advantage?

And apparently certain kinds of gifted people like yourself should for goodness sake have the power to exert authority over their lessers!

Believe it or not, this isn’t a new idea.

Mercy.

[Bhairava]

You think you have some kinda “IQ” advantage?

And apparently certain kinds of gifted people like yourself should for goodness sake have the power to exert authority over their lessers!

Believe it or not, this isn’t a new idea.

Mercy.

The tyrannical man is the son of the democratic man. He is the worst form of man due to his being the most unjust and thus the furthest removed from any joy of the true kind. He is consumed by lawless desires which cause him to do many terrible things such as murdering and plundering. He comes closest to complete lawlessness. The idea of moderation does not exist to him. He is consumed by the basest pleasures in life, and being granted these pleasures at a whim destroys the type of pleasure only attainable through knowing pain.

[Pulgasari]

liberalism diluted into it's purest form, mindless and anarchic and without principal

liberalism could kick your @$$

[Tethler]

The tyrannical man is the son of the democratic man. He is the worst form of man due to his being the most unjust and thus the furthest removed from any joy of the true kind. He is consumed by lawless desires which cause him to do many terrible things such as murdering and plundering. He comes closest to complete lawlessness. The idea of moderation does not exist to him. He is consumed by the basest pleasures in life, and being granted these pleasures at a whim destroys the type of pleasure only attainable through knowing pain.

Plato is real good at describing Donald Trump, wow. Like everything in there except for the murdering.

[remen]

Remen:
If you haven't seen that fucked pathing happening recently then you haven't been paying attention. It's happened to both riot and vanq. Also most of the time when we have trouble getting a boss through 4way and past snow piles it always seems to be when random vanq members have put agro into the mob/train, but on all of your recent statue pulls riot doesn't fuck with your pulls for any reason and wow so weird they come in nice and clean.

There's nothing standard about what has been happening with warping in kael so saying that the standard of kill 1 concede 2 applies is just ignoring a completely new set of variables that neither guild had any hand in creating. What should've happened was both guilds going to the GM's to ask what the deal was and a little benefit of the doubt given to both parties from each other, like we gave you guys when you've had warping issues just recently.

Credit where it's due you guys did concede 2x statue. Definitely not how that should've played out though as it was clear as crystal you took statue way past the line. That statue should've been dropped then you probably wouldn't have needed to concede any statues. You all killed it knowing full well it was an egregious kite that went way over the line. You had a whole team of people up there trying to pull him back.


Do you have any proof whatsoever that Vanquish members have had any agro into your pulls? It sounds like you are parroting false information disseminated by your dishonest leadership. Our pulls come in nice and clean because it's not a difficult thing to do. I've pulled KDT, fjokar, and faction pulls from the KT throne room dozens of times since the last pathing patch and have never had a mob warp into the wall.

"You all killed it knowing full well it was an egregious kite that went way over the line."

This is also a lie, whoever is giving you this information is lying to you. I was there for that pull and in our voice comms we kept asking our pullers what happened and where the mob was and they told us it didn't get kited. They were obviously wrong, but we did not kill it knowing that it was a kite. It wasn't until we saw the fraps from the point of view of one of your players that we saw it was kited well beyond the line. So then we conceded the next two.

The why has never mattered in terms of a mob being kited, a tracker getting FTE, or other things that lead to a concede. Infractions happen, accidentally or not, because of a bug or not, and when this happens the next two are conceded. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, your puller acted in good faith running back to the KT castle, but once KT popped out at 4 way and started pathing to him he could have feigned death, capped out, run back towards 4 way, etc. He didn't and it turned into an undeniable kite.

My opinion is that your leadership made a calculated decision to just take their chances with the GMs, because worst case scenario they will rule against you guys and all that will happen is you will be forced to concede two KTs anyways. Stuff like this is acting in bad faith and is an example of why relations between our guilds have broken down.

[Bhairava]

Plato is real good at describing Donald Trump, wow. Like everything in there except for the murdering.

He is describing modern society in general - democratization of civilization descending into the tyranny of anarchism without order or hierarchy.

Trump is irrelevant - he was a tyrant, but insomuch as all modern American politics is beholden to anonymous masses of para-human 'voters', all presidents and politicians in democratic countries are 'tyrants', liberal and conservative alike.

[Bhairava]

biden is a vile murderer too btw, he was vice president when obama was droning weddings and air striking hospitals in afghanistan

all the democracy defenders and racism identifiers (tm) checking in to try to own me because I said raiders should be sent to red

[Croco]

Do you have any proof whatsoever that Vanquish members have had any agro into your pulls? It sounds like you are parroting false information disseminated by your dishonest leadership. Our pulls come in nice and clean because it's not a difficult thing to do. I've pulled KDT, fjokar, and faction pulls from the KT throne room dozens of times since the last pathing patch and have never had a mob warp into the wall.

"You all killed it knowing full well it was an egregious kite that went way over the line."

This is also a lie, whoever is giving you this information is lying to you. I was there for that pull and in our voice comms we kept asking our pullers what happened and where the mob was and they told us it didn't get kited. They were obviously wrong, but we did not kill it knowing that it was a kite. It wasn't until we saw the fraps from the point of view of one of your players that we saw it was kited well beyond the line. So then we conceded the next two.

The why has never mattered in terms of a mob being kited, a tracker getting FTE, or other things that lead to a concede. Infractions happen, accidentally or not, because of a bug or not, and when this happens the next two are conceded. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, your puller acted in good faith running back to the KT castle, but once KT popped out at 4 way and started pathing to him he could have feigned death, capped out, run back towards 4 way, etc. He didn't and it turned into an undeniable kite.

My opinion is that your leadership made a calculated decision to just take their chances with the GMs, because worst case scenario they will rule against you guys and all that will happen is you will be forced to concede two KTs anyways. Stuff like this is acting in bad faith and is an example of why relations between our guilds have broken down.

Yes we have plenty of fraps from a number of different Statue and KT pulls where we won initial FTE and held FTE through the whole pull yet somehow statue decided to stop along the way to whack on (and in some cases kill) various members of your guild. There is ample evidence of vanq members putting agro into riot fte's from half a dozen recent fraps just from this year, not to mention dating back further before you guys merged.

If you all seriously had no idea that Statue was way beyond the EW line during that pull you're a lot more stupid than I initially thought. Not one person out of the half dozen of you running to chase down Statue as it was going towards EW had knowledge of where the line was for it to become a failed tag/kite? So either you're all very bad at this game and shouldn't be raiding the mobs if you don't know the rules or all half dozen of the people trying desperately to drag Statue back towards WL were lying to you when they said they didn't know where it went.

If you watch the fraps that you all provided of that KT pull he warps into the building next to the stairs and comes out then turns towards his spawn point at 1:59 of the fraps, he arrives at Zssah at 2:23 then proceeds to stand there and kill him before turning back towards WL and being pulled into camp. So all told he was actively running away from WL for 24 seconds, which as I'm sure you're aware is "about the length of 1 DA". So no it was not an "undeniable kite", he was actively pathing away from camp for "about the length of 1 DA", unlike your statue which was heading away from camp for well over the length of 1 DA (nearly a full minute in fact) and many of your players knew exactly where it was. Ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the rules and that statue should've been dropped. As the rules say "If you are pulling raid targets, we expect you to know what you’re doing". And before you try and argue in bad faith yet again, no, your statue and our KT are not equivalent situations.

The difference between our leadership and yours is that when we for sure know we've fucked something up and broken a rule they will give the proper concessions, most of the time without any bitching and prodding for us to do so. Your leadership on the other hand can be given crystal clear proof that a rule was broken (ie: racing KT with 5), and still take a week to make the proper concessions. Lets be real here, your guild leader should've been banned off the server completely, all his characters shown the door. People have been perma banned for much less than what he did.

If you want to point to reasons why relations between our guilds are bad go back and look at how your leadership talks in the UN. How often they antagonize, dismiss, condescend, and are just openly aggressive for no reason to riot and other guilds. Now go listen to the recordings of your leadership, there are many. Listen to what they've said and how they've said it. Now ask yourself what raiding guilds contains the vast majority of the bigots, homophobes, and assholes in general on the server. Vanquish.

[Tethler]

all the democracy defenders and racism identifiers (tm) checking in to try to own me because I said raiders should be sent to red

Did you think I was trying to "own you"?

I don't care, nor did I read the rest of the thread besides page 1 and this last page, including whatever you said about raiders. No need to be so defensive, pal.

[Pulgasari]

He is describing modern society in general - democratization of civilization descending into the tyranny of anarchism without order or hierarchy.


produce your Pretender that we might deal with him traditionally. :cool:

[NotCaros]

He is describing modern society in general - democratization of civilization descending into the tyranny of anarchism without order or hierarchy.

Trump is irrelevant - he was a tyrant, but insomuch as all modern American politics is beholden to anonymous masses of para-human 'voters', all presidents and politicians in democratic countries are 'tyrants', liberal and conservative alike.


You realize Platos ultimate thesis was basically:

“Y’all need need a wise and perfect philosopher king (so literally Jesus Christ) as your ruler”

-Plato

Not sure how that would jive with your post modern sidartha vibe. But that’s the facts.

[Samoht]

If you all seriously had no idea that Statue was way beyond the EW line during that pull you're a lot more stupid than I initially thought.

If you seriously have no idea that KT was kited back to his throne room, then you're a lot more stupid than I initially thought. And I already thought you were pretty damned stupid.

If you want to point to reasons why relations between our guilds are bad go back and look at how your leadership talks in the UN. How often they antagonize, dismiss, condescend, and are just openly aggressive for no reason to riot and other guilds. Now go listen to the recordings of your leadership, there are many. Listen to what they've said and how they've said it.

Riot leadership is guilty of the exact same thing. Your cognitive dissonance is just amazing.

Seek. Help.

[Hotel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm64nvT4e8k

When this video starts, KT is very clearly visible and pathing towards the throne room.

Who needs gaslighting when you can straight up lie about everything.

[Croco]

If you seriously have no idea that KT was kited back to his throne room, then you're a lot more stupid than I initially thought. And I already thought you were pretty damned stupid.



Riot leadership is guilty of the exact same thing. Your cognitive dissonance is just amazing.

Seek. Help.

I've already clearly explained why it wasn't a kite. The amount of time KT was headed back to his spawn was "about the length of 1 DA". By definition that's not a kite. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand. I've never tried to say KT was never pathing back towards the throne room, he just wasn't doing so long enough for it to be considered a kite.

Riot leadership only responds in kind when being antagonized to. The receipts are all there in the UN. Go check them out sometime when you're bored. I know you guys are bad at reading comprehension and love to equate the tiniest slight coming from riot as being equivalent to your leader threatening to beat the shit out of people he's supposed to be negotiating with but amazingly context matters. Our leadership responding aggressively after your leadership takes it there is not the same thing.

[Samoht]

I've already clearly explained why it wasn't a kite. The amount of time KT was headed back to his spawn was "about the length of 1 DA". By definition that's not a kite. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand. I've never tried to say KT was never pathing back towards the throne room, he just wasn't doing so long enough for it to be considered a kite.

The video isn't the entire kite. I'm sorry you can't understand that time was in existence before the video started, and believe it or not, it's still running after the video has ended, but it's pretty obviously not the whole kite.

Riot leadership only responds in kind when being antagonized to.

The insults are cyclical. Both sides are highly aggressive towards each other, but I'm not some boot licking riot lackey that lacks self awareness. I'm sorry you can't see it it, but the common person can easily see through the petty bullshit. JB and Juicebox are just as bad, if not worse than, anybody in Vanquish. I'm just not attached to their dicks like you are.

[Incubo]

Riot was just mad they lost the FTE race to a lvl 55 kos bard, so they immediately put in the petition. Which we then go on to clear PoG in record time anyways. Fun times.

[Yinein]

Riot just mad

[Ennewi]

The nostalgia doesn't solely come from the game but the player base too, many of which are still time locked in 2001, unable to progress beyond adolescent behavior.

[Yinein]

I also am big mad.

[Croco]

The video isn't the entire kite. I'm sorry you can't understand that time was in existence before the video started, and believe it or not, it's still running after the video has ended, but it's pretty obviously not the whole kite.



The insults are cyclical. Both sides are highly aggressive towards each other, but I'm not some boot licking riot lackey that lacks self awareness. I'm sorry you can't see it it, but the common person can easily see through the petty bullshit. JB and Juicebox are just as bad, if not worse than, anybody in Vanquish. I'm just not attached to their dicks like you are.

Ok so if the video you all provided isn't "the entire kite" by all means submit fraps that show the entire kite. As it stands the evidence provided shows KT traveling back towards his spawn point for "about the length of 1 DA", standing in place for a few seconds to kill Zssah, then going back towards WL. As your leadership is so quick to say, show me the fraps.

It's absolutely hilarious that you think JB and Jute are anywhere near the level of vitriol and aggression of anyone in vanq. If they sometimes show those characteristics it's because of being pushed to the brink by constant harassment, gaslighting, name calling, and overall highly aggressive comments by your leadership. The methods of communication between our 2 leadership teams couldn't be more different, they're not equivalent.

There are literally dozens of examples and often people screen shot the comments in the UN because your leaders disingenuously go back and delete things they've said, riot leadership never does that. Vanq leadership also has gone back and deleted concessions, another thing riot has never done. Right now you're doing exactly what most vanq members do when arguing in bad faith. You hold up 1 or 2 examples of incredibly marginal/slight things riot has said or done, usually in response to antagonistic behavior from vanq and you try to equate it to the literal mountains of garbage coming from the vanq side of things, which is almost always unprovoked. You all constantly compare apples to watermelons and play whataboutism games till the sun sets instead of admitting what everyone but you sees plainly.

There's a reason the vast majority of the server can't stand your guild and the people in it. There's a huge contingent of vanq that if they weren't able to be in your guild no other guild would take them. I'll reiterate since you seem to have skipped over this: almost all the bigots, homophobes, and massive assholes on the server are in your guild.

[Ennewi]

"Big mad" would be threatening to knock someone's teeth out over a computer game.

[Ennewi]

Mad, in both senses of the word.

[NotCaros]

Ok so if the video you all provided isn't "the entire kite" by all means submit fraps that show the entire kite. As it stands the evidence provided shows KT traveling back towards his spawn point for "about the length of 1 DA", standing in place for a few seconds to kill Zssah, then going back towards WL. As your leadership is so quick to say, show me the fraps.

It's absolutely hilarious that you think JB and Jute are anywhere near the level of vitriol and aggression of anyone in vanq. If they sometimes show those characteristics it's because of being pushed to the brink by constant harassment, gaslighting, name calling, and overall highly aggressive comments by your leadership. The methods of communication between our 2 leadership teams couldn't be more different, they're not equivalent.

There are literally dozens of examples and often people screen shot the comments in the UN because your leaders disingenuously go back and delete things they've said, riot leadership never does that. Vanq leadership also has gone back and deleted concessions, another thing riot has never done. Right now you're doing exactly what most vanq members do when arguing in bad faith. You hold up 1 or 2 examples of incredibly marginal/slight things riot has said or done, usually in response to antagonistic behavior from vanq and you try to equate it to the literal mountains of garbage coming from the vanq side of things, which is almost always unprovoked. You all constantly compare apples to watermelons and play whataboutism games till the sun sets instead of admitting what everyone but you sees plainly.

There's a reason the vast majority of the server can't stand your guild and the people in it. There's a huge contingent of vanq that if they weren't able to be in your guild no other guild would take them. I'll reiterate since you seem to have skipped over this: almost all the bigots, homophobes, and massive assholes on the server are in your guild.

As long as you can find at least One Thing

that someone else does bad - but you've never ever done

that means your a good person!

And surely a fairy just earned its wings today!

[Samoht]

Ok so if the video you all provided isn't "the entire kite" by all means submit fraps that show the entire kite. As it stands the evidence provided shows KT traveling back towards his spawn point for "about the length of 1 DA", standing in place for a few seconds to kill Zssah, then going back towards WL. As your leadership is so quick to say, show me the fraps.

It's absolutely hilarious that you think JB and Jute are anywhere near the level of vitriol and aggression of anyone in vanq. If they sometimes show those characteristics it's because of being pushed to the brink by constant harassment, gaslighting, name calling, and overall highly aggressive comments by your leadership. The methods of communication between our 2 leadership teams couldn't be more different, they're not equivalent.

You're moving the goal posts. At first, your claim is that KT wasn't kited towards the throne room. Now that your claim has been thoroughly debunked, well, it wasn't a kite because it wasn't long enough. You're using the word gaslighting again, but here you are, again, doing that exact same thing. Again.

You are a liar and a hypocrite. You seriously need help.

[Croco]

You're moving the goal posts. At first, your claim is that KT wasn't kited towards the throne room. Now that your claim has been thoroughly debunked, well, it wasn't a kite because it wasn't long enough. You're using the word gaslighting again, but here you are, again, doing that exact same thing. Again.

You are a liar and a hypocrite. You seriously need help.

I never said KT didn't go back towards his throne. I said very clearly that we didn't take him back that direction on purpose, and I'm saying, again very clearly each time, that the amount of time he spent moving back that direction doesn't fit the definition of a kite. At no point have I moved any goal posts. I've stated my position very clearly each time.

[Samoht]

I never said KT didn't go back towards his throne. I said very clearly that we didn't take him back that direction on purpose, and I'm saying, again very clearly each time, that the amount of time he spent moving back that direction doesn't fit the definition of a kite. At no point have I moved any goal posts. I've stated my position very clearly each time.

Your position before is that you did not kite towards KT. Then your point was that it was not kited at all. Now your point is that it was not kited on purpose.

Intent is irrelevant in this situation. You either pulled it to back to the throne room or you didn't. Video shows you did. Since you did, you need to concede. There's no other argument here. Nothing else to discuss. Riot took it back to the throne room. All of the evidence shows this.

[Croco]

Your position before is that you did not kite towards KT. Then your point was that it was not kited at all. Now your point is that it was not kited on purpose.

Intent is irrelevant in this situation. You either pulled it to back to the throne room or you didn't. Video shows you did. Since you did, you need to concede. There's no other argument here. Nothing else to discuss. Riot took it back to the throne room. All of the evidence shows this.

Q10: What about a raid mob being indefinitely kited, stalled, or occupied?
A: It is against server policy to indefinitely kite, stall, or otherwise keep occupied a raid mob without intention of killing it. You either bring it to your raid, die, or zone out. Obvious stalling of a raid mob, especially in situations to prevent engagement by another guild/party, is against the rules. Ignorance is not an excuse to break this rule. If you are pulling raid targets, we expect you to know what you’re doing.

Q12: What exactly does the Staff consider a stall?
A: As far as engage stalls, the Staff will grant you one DA, or about that much time on an engage before considering it a stall. So it’s important that guilds do not engage a mob until they are ready to kill it. The spirit of the rule (and what we are looking to do here) is to prevent guilds from locking up a target before they are ready to kill it, just to prevent other guilds that are ready to kill it first/faster. If you stall, you need to drop aggro immediately and concede/forfeit the mob. Any number of players can be considered to be stalling a mob, what we look for is the engage of the kill force. I know some of you want an exact number of seconds, or players, or DPS done. But the fact is that’s just not realistic with guilds being so vastly different in numbers and strength, while also competing for the same content. The most important thing here is the statement about the spirit of this rule stated above.

I'm going to dumb it down for you since you are having a really tough time understanding. Per the raid rules, not just whatever vanq wishes to make up and word vomit everywhere, Staff affords each attempt at a mob "one DA, or about that much time" before considering it a stall/kite. By the server rules, which again vanq has repeatedly said they adhere to religiously, no rule was broken and it was not a kite/stall. KT was moving away from camp for "one DA, or about that time".

You can keep saying over and over and over that it was a kite but that doesn't make it true. No rule was broken and if you think one was I would love for you to quote me the exact rule you believe we violated, and we can examine that.

As it stands currently you keep saying the same incorrect debunked trash over and over in a desperate attempt to will it to be true. No rules were broken. It does not fit the definition of a kite per server rules.

[Hotel]

I'm going to dumb it down for you since you are having a really tough time understanding. Per the raid rules, not just whatever vanq wishes to make up and word vomit everywhere, Staff affords each attempt at a mob "one DA, or about that much time" before considering it a stall/kite. By the server rules, which again vanq has repeatedly said they adhere to religiously, no rule was broken and it was not a kite/stall. KT was moving away from camp for "one DA, or about that time".

You can keep saying over and over and over that it was a kite but that doesn't make it true. No rule was broken and if you think one was I would love for you to quote me the exact rule you believe we violated, and we can examine that.

As it stands currently you keep saying the same incorrect debunked trash over and over in a desperate attempt to will it to be true. No rules were broken. It does not fit the definition of a kite per server rules.

hey, dumbass, come vibe to the sweet jazz of you looking like an idiot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJx7rrbO8Uw&ab_channel=MikoSama

[Samoht]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJx7rrbO8Uw&ab_channel=MikoSama

KT was pathing backwards towards throne room from 1:55-2:28.

Definitely qualifies as a kite under the new goal posts.

Time to move them again?

[remen]

I never said KT didn't go back towards his throne. I said very clearly that we didn't take him back that direction on purpose, and I'm saying, again very clearly each time, that the amount of time he spent moving back that direction doesn't fit the definition of a kite. At no point have I moved any goal posts. I've stated my position very clearly each time.

Your repeatedly stating that it wasn't on purpose has become a broken record. Nobody said it was on purpose. It doesn't matter whether or not it was on purpose. The statue pull that you referenced multiple times wasn't kited on purpose, but we conceded the next two because it was a kite.

Yes we have plenty of fraps from a number of different Statue and KT pulls where we won initial FTE and held FTE through the whole pull yet somehow statue decided to stop along the way to whack on (and in some cases kill) various members of your guild. There is ample evidence of vanq members putting agro into riot fte's from half a dozen recent fraps just from this year, not to mention dating back further before you guys merged.


Post one please, just one, given that there is amble evidence from half a dozen recent fraps this year. Otherwise all you are doing is echoing lies that have been told to you.


The difference between our leadership and yours is that when we for sure know we've fucked something up and broken a rule they will give the proper concessions


It's hilariously sad that you actually believe this. I guess when you are told the same lies over and over again by your leadership, you start to accept them as the truth? We don't have to go further than the situation we are talking about to prove this statement wrong.

I'm going to dumb it down for you since you are having a really tough time understanding. Per the raid rules, not just whatever vanq wishes to make up and word vomit everywhere, Staff affords each attempt at a mob "one DA, or about that much time" before considering it a stall/kite. By the server rules, which again vanq has repeatedly said they adhere to religiously, no rule was broken and it was not a kite/stall. KT was moving away from camp for "one DA, or about that time".

You can keep saying over and over and over that it was a kite but that doesn't make it true. No rule was broken and if you think one was I would love for you to quote me the exact rule you believe we violated, and we can examine that.

As it stands currently you keep saying the same incorrect debunked trash over and over in a desperate attempt to will it to be true. No rules were broken. It does not fit the definition of a kite per server rules.

I'm going to dumb it down for you and break it down for you step by step, since apparently it is necessary. First, you guys bug out KT under the world and inside the walls for about 60 seconds. But ok let's give you the benefit of the doubt that this was out of your control and shouldn't be held against you.

After that, KT finally pops back into the world at 1:55 in the fraps. It isn't until 2:28 that KT kills your necro and resumes pathing back towards WL. Math doesn't seem to be your strong suit, so let me help you out and tell you that 1:55 to 2:28 = 33 seconds (this number is greater than 24 seconds, the amount of time that you stated as the allowable amount).

So to bring it all home, in the video posted, FTE has gone out before the player logs in. KT doesn't arrive into your camp until four minutes into the video. Four minutes to get KT from his throne room to the WL ent, and you are seriously trying to tell me that this wasn't a kite?

Gonna repost this one just for the lols:


The difference between our leadership and yours is that when we for sure know we've fucked something up and broken a rule they will give the proper concessions

[Samoht]

Stockholm Syndrome

Blink twice if you're looking for a DKP transfer

[Ennewi]

Having a preoccupation with imaginary points and belongings that aren't aren't even yours...

[Croco]

Your repeatedly stating that it wasn't on purpose has become a broken record. Nobody said it was on purpose. It doesn't matter whether or not it was on purpose. The statue pull that you referenced multiple times wasn't kited on purpose, but we conceded the next two because it was a kite.



Post one please, just one, given that there is amble evidence from half a dozen recent fraps this year. Otherwise all you are doing is echoing lies that have been told to you.



It's hilariously sad that you actually believe this. I guess when you are told the same lies over and over again by your leadership, you start to accept them as the truth? We don't have to go further than the situation we are talking about to prove this statement wrong.



I'm going to dumb it down for you and break it down for you step by step, since apparently it is necessary. First, you guys bug out KT under the world and inside the walls for about 60 seconds. But ok let's give you the benefit of the doubt that this was out of your control and shouldn't be held against you.

After that, KT finally pops back into the world at 1:55 in the fraps. It isn't until 2:28 that KT kills your necro and resumes pathing back towards WL. Math doesn't seem to be your strong suit, so let me help you out and tell you that 1:55 to 2:28 = 33 seconds (this number is greater than 24 seconds, the amount of time that you stated as the allowable amount).

So to bring it all home, in the video posted, FTE has gone out before the player logs in. KT doesn't arrive into your camp until four minutes into the video. Four minutes to get KT from his throne room to the WL ent, and you are seriously trying to tell me that this wasn't a kite?

Gonna repost this one just for the lols:

The only reason I ever mentioned whether it was or wasn't on purpose is because you implied intent with your original post(s). We're likely arguing semantics at this point but I felt like the language of it mattered. You saying "we took it back towards the throne room" is not the same to me as saying "Zssah ran back towards KT spawn because last time he popped there and after unbugging himself and popping inside the building near snowpiles KT exited the building and followed after Zssah who was now back near KT's castle".

He pops in the building at 1:55 of the fraps, between 1:55 and 1:59 he's heading neither towards nor away from WL, he's simply running out of the building, he doesn't take a turn in either direction until the 1:59 mark of the fraps (119.64 seconds into the video). At which point he continues pathing back towards his spawn until 2:24 of the fraps (144.36 seconds into the video) where he then stands and kills Zssah before starting back towards WL. Similar to the time spent in the building before his exit the time he spends standing there killing Zssah he's not pathing away from camp, or towards camp. After Zssah dies he immediately starts pathing back towards WL/camp.

119.64 seconds minus 144.36 seconds (thanks youtube stats for nerds!) = 24.72 seconds or, as I've already pointed out numerous times, "1 DA, or about that time". If you look back through the history of UN typically guilds don't bother with a petition if the alleged kite is less than 30 seconds. This one doesn't come anywhere near the 30 second mark. As for the time he spent stuck in the wall/under the world I have no idea why you would hold that against us or any guild for that matter after brand new pathing changes were put in place and no one could've anticipated that happening.

The hilarious part of that fraps comes at 3:10 of the video when someone says "They're just going to say it's not their fault", and immediately someone chimes in "It isn't their fault" because amazingly there's still a few decent people in vanq. The next person who says "It'd be our fault if that was us" is completely wrong, as you've seen during the intervening time when you've had multiple bugged pulls where we didn't petition you because of the bugs.

The statue pull was a completely different matter as yes it was a kite but not because of him bugging out, but because you all failed to tag properly at 4 way, so it turned into a kite because of a failed tag, nothing having to do with it being bugged out. It spent more than enough time running through 4 way for someone to get a proper tag on it and continue the pull towards WL. Unfortunately for you all the time it spent pathing away from camp never came into play (even though by that metric it's still a kite because it was pathing away from camp for almost a full minute) because there's a hard line back towards EW that was passed (twice).

There's the breakdown for you since math obviously isn't your strong suit.

hey, dumbass, come vibe to the sweet jazz of you looking like an idiot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJx7rrbO8Uw&ab_channel=MikoSama

Hey moron, you're wrong.

[Hotel]

The only reason I ever mentioned whether it was or wasn't on purpose is because you implied intent with your original post(s). We're likely arguing semantics at this point but I felt like the language of it mattered. You saying "we took it back towards the throne room" is not the same to me as saying "Zssah ran back towards KT spawn because last time he popped there and after unbugging himself and popping inside the building near snowpiles KT exited the building and followed after Zssah who was now back near KT's castle".

He pops in the building at 1:55 of the fraps, between 1:55 and 1:59 he's heading neither towards nor away from WL, he's simply running out of the building, he doesn't take a turn in either direction until the 1:59 mark of the fraps (119.64 seconds into the video). At which point he continues pathing back towards his spawn until 2:24 of the fraps (144.36 seconds into the video) where he then stands and kills Zssah before starting back towards WL. Similar to the time spent in the building before his exit the time he spends standing there killing Zssah he's not pathing away from camp, or towards camp. After Zssah dies he immediately starts pathing back towards WL/camp.

119.64 seconds minus 144.36 seconds (thanks youtube stats for nerds!) = 24.72 seconds or, as I've already pointed out numerous times, "1 DA, or about that time". If you look back through the history of UN typically guilds don't bother with a petition if the alleged kite is less than 30 seconds. This one doesn't come anywhere near the 30 second mark. As for the time he spent stuck in the wall/under the world I have no idea why you would hold that against us or any guild for that matter after brand new pathing changes were put in place and no one could've anticipated that happening.

The hilarious part of that fraps comes at 3:10 of the video when someone says "They're just going to say it's not their fault", and immediately someone chimes in "It isn't their fault" because amazingly there's still a few decent people in vanq. The next person who says "It'd be our fault if that was us" is completely wrong, as you've seen during the intervening time when you've had multiple bugged pulls where we didn't petition you because of the bugs.

The statue pull was a completely different matter as yes it was a kite but not because of him bugging out, but because you all failed to tag properly at 4 way, so it turned into a kite because of a failed tag, nothing having to do with it being bugged out. It spent more than enough time running through 4 way for someone to get a proper tag on it and continue the pull towards WL. Unfortunately for you all the time it spent pathing away from camp never came into play (even though by that metric it's still a kite because it was pathing away from camp for almost a full minute) because there's a hard line back towards EW that was passed (twice).

There's the breakdown for you since math obviously isn't your strong suit.



Hey moron, you're wrong.

big mad

bigger kite

[Croco]

big mad

bigger kite

small brain, smaller vocabulary

[Aadill]

Shut the fuck up all of you lolol

[Samoht]

Hey moron, you're wrong.

I'll take things you say when you're mad, bad, sad, fat for 5000, Alec.

[Croco]

I'll take things you say when you're mad, bad, sad, fat for 5000, Alec.

Yeah I agree, your guildmate is all of those things most likely.

hey, dumbass, come vibe to the sweet jazz of you looking like an idiot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJx7rrbO8Uw&ab_channel=MikoSama

[Samoht]

Yeah I agree, your guildmate is all of those things most likely.

I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I

[remen]

He pops in the building at 1:55 of the fraps, between 1:55 and 1:59 he's heading neither towards nor away from WL, he's simply running out of the building, he doesn't take a turn in either direction until the 1:59 mark of the fraps (119.64 seconds into the video). At which point he continues pathing back towards his spawn until 2:24 of the fraps (144.36 seconds into the video) where he then stands and kills Zssah before starting back towards WL. Similar to the time spent in the building before his exit the time he spends standing there killing Zssah he's not pathing away from camp, or towards camp. After Zssah dies he immediately starts pathing back towards WL/camp.

119.64 seconds minus 144.36 seconds (thanks youtube stats for nerds!) = 24.72 seconds or, as I've already pointed out numerous times, "1 DA, or about that time". If you look back through the history of UN typically guilds don't bother with a petition if the alleged kite is less than 30 seconds. This one doesn't come anywhere near the 30 second mark. As for the time he spent stuck in the wall/under the world I have no idea why you would hold that against us or any guild for that matter after brand new pathing changes were put in place and no one could've anticipated that happening.

The statue pull was a completely different matter as yes it was a kite but not because of him bugging out, but because you all failed to tag properly at 4 way, so it turned into a kite because of a failed tag, nothing having to do with it being bugged out. It spent more than enough time running through 4 way for someone to get a proper tag on it and continue the pull towards WL. Unfortunately for you all the time it spent pathing away from camp never came into play (even though by that metric it's still a kite because it was pathing away from camp for almost a full minute) because there's a hard line back towards EW that was passed (twice).


I don't know why you keep bringing up statue, I (and our guild) have already agreed that it was an egregious kite and we conceded the next two statues.

The mental gymnastics you have gone through to try and find a way to justify your kite of KT is as impressive as it is sad. This is a great example though of the lengths to which your guild will go to lawyerquest every little aspect of any situation to twist it in your favor. Some convoluted explanation of why the first four seconds shouldn't count, when the simple fact is that he was heading in the wrong direction because of a bad assumption by your puller.

Even if we grant you those first 4 seconds, your assertion that you shouldn't count the time KT spent killing your necro doesn't hold water. A mob is being kited when it isn't pathing to the location where you are pulling it. Imagine if we were pulling KT, and a warrior in our guild popped defensive and attacked KT in four way to buy extra time. Would you say that this time period doesn't count as part of a kite because KT isn't pathing away from the camp during that time period?

The facts are really simple here, anyone with eyes watching from an unbiased point of view can watch that video and see that KT spends 33 seconds not heading towards your camp. That's a kite.

[Croco]

I don't know why you keep bringing up statue, I (and our guild) have already agreed that it was an egregious kite and we conceded the next two statues.

The mental gymnastics you have gone through to try and find a way to justify your kite of KT is as impressive as it is sad. This is a great example though of the lengths to which your guild will go to lawyerquest every little aspect of any situation to twist it in your favor. Some convoluted explanation of why the first four seconds shouldn't count, when the simple fact is that he was heading in the wrong direction because of a bad assumption by your puller.

Even if we grant you those first 4 seconds, your assertion that you shouldn't count the time KT spent killing your necro doesn't hold water. A mob is being kited when it isn't pathing to the location where you are pulling it. Imagine if we were pulling KT, and a warrior in our guild popped defensive and attacked KT in four way to buy extra time. Would you say that this time period doesn't count as part of a kite because KT isn't pathing away from the camp during that time period?

The facts are really simple here, anyone with eyes watching from an unbiased point of view can watch that video and see that KT spends 33 seconds not heading towards your camp. That's a kite.

Imagine all the time that your leaders have stated that you only count the time the mob is pathing away from camp. It's a standard that GM's set. There's no mental gymnastics going on, unless you're accusing your own leadership and GM's of it. I'm using the exact language they use when arguing something is or isn't a kite.

12/31/2020 from the UN
Thats cool and all but the "kite" was less than the allowed 18-24 seconds. Your guild argued on PD, and won, that kite time is only counted as time going away from camp. This Dain was 17 seconds tops.

1/21/2021 from the UN
Takish, like Dain, did not move away from our camp for more than 24 seconds (or about the time of one DA)

1/25/2021 From raid petitions Response to 1/18 Tunare
Dica’s video shows Takish is moving away from Fr/AG’s camp between 00:22 and 00:44. This 22-second delay is sanctioned by the stalling rules.

There's no justifying anything. It's not a kite by definition. Learn the rules and consult with your leaders who obviously know what they're talking about and you obviously do not. The language used has never been "not heading towards camp" and always been X mob spent Y time "moving away from camp". The amount of time he stands there killing Zssah is by the very language your leaders have used in the past not time "moving away from camp" as KT is not pathing away from camp during this time.

Your example of a warrior gaining agro during the pull and popping defensive to hold the mob for more time falls very far out of what is listed in Q12 "The spirit of the rule (and what we are looking to do here)". In that situation it's obvious the warrior is not helping to pull the mob in he's just stalling for time and actively trying to tank the mob. Zssah was actively trying to pull KT in, he wasn't trying to stall or tank KT to buy time. If Zssah was doing that he would've popped DA and held KT at the spot where KT killed him for a lot longer than he did.

The only mental gymnastics going on here is yours and your own leaders don't agree with what you're saying.

[Hideousclaw]

Imagine all the time that your leaders have stated that you only count the time the mob is pathing away from camp. It's a standard that GM's set. There's no mental gymnastics going on, unless you're accusing your own leadership and GM's of it. I'm using the exact language they use when arguing something is or isn't a kite.

12/31/2020 from the UN


1/21/2021 from the UN


1/25/2021 From raid petitions Response to 1/18 Tunare


There's no justifying anything. It's not a kite by definition. Learn the rules and consult with your leaders who obviously know what they're talking about and you obviously do not. The language used has never been "not heading towards camp" and always been X mob spent Y time "moving away from camp". The amount of time he stands there killing Zssah is by the very language your leaders have used in the past not time "moving away from camp" as KT is not pathing away from camp during this time.

Your example of a warrior gaining agro during the pull and popping defensive to hold the mob for more time falls very far out of what is listed in Q12 "The spirit of the rule (and what we are looking to do here)". In that situation it's obvious the warrior is not helping to pull the mob in he's just stalling for time and actively trying to tank the mob. Zssah was actively trying to pull KT in, he wasn't trying to stall or tank KT to buy time. If Zssah was doing that he would've popped DA and held KT at the spot where KT killed him for a lot longer than he did.

The only mental gymnastics going on here is yours and your own leaders don't agree with what you're saying.

Riots Defense, first fraps provided: KT heads towards throne room at 1:59 upon leaving the little building he pops up in.

KT kills Zssah and heads back at 2:29

1:59 - 2:29 = 30sec. DA length is 18-24sec. No gymnastics from this end calling that a kite. It pathed AWAY from WL ZL for 30sec from the moment it came out of the building and turned away from WL. Its a kite, 100%. But now you shall provide your gymnastics as to why my math is wrong. he doesnt bobble to buy time. He walks on a straight path towards his throne room following the primary ripper who made a mistake and ran the wrong way.

No intentional kite, just a kite because of poor play. Sometimes it be like that, and it be a concession. Or it be a petition because y'all can't own it that you made a mistake.

[Hideousclaw]

Its closer to 29.5sec of kite, if you count frame by frame. But regardless, still a kite.

[remen]

Croco, all of those examples are to clarify that the time of the mob resuming its normal pathing aren't part of the definition of a kite. IE you pull the mob in the wrong direction for 18 seconds. You don't count the following 18 seconds as it returns to the spot the kite started. In the KT video posted, he doesn't return to the status of being pulled until 33 seconds after the kite begins. Or even if you want to be as generous as Daewen, it was 29.5 seconds. It's a kite. I would also ask why your puller didn't run back towards the four way once you guys realized KT was heading back to the throne room?

If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, you would take the gold. I look forward to your response :)

[Croco]

Croco, all of those examples are to clarify that the time of the mob resuming its normal pathing aren't part of the definition of a kite. IE you pull the mob in the wrong direction for 18 seconds. You don't count the following 18 seconds as it returns to the spot the kite started. In the KT video posted, he doesn't return to the status of being pulled until 33 seconds after the kite begins. Or even if you want to be as generous as Daewen, it was 29.5 seconds. It's a kite. I would also ask why your puller didn't run back towards the four way once you guys realized KT was heading back to the throne room?

If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, you would take the gold. I look forward to your response :)

Both you and Daewen are wrong as I've already pointed out in a prior post.

He pops in the building at 1:55 of the fraps, between 1:55 and 1:59 he's heading neither towards nor away from WL, he's simply running out of the building, he doesn't take a turn in either direction until the 1:59 mark of the fraps (119.64 seconds into the video). At which point he continues pathing back towards his spawn until 2:24 of the fraps (144.36 seconds into the video) where he then stands and kills Zssah before starting back towards WL. Similar to the time spent in the building before his exit the time he spends standing there killing Zssah he's not pathing away from camp, or towards camp. After Zssah dies he immediately starts pathing back towards WL/camp.

144.36 seconds minus 119.64 seconds equals 24.72 seconds. Well within the spirit of the rules and far below the 30 second threshold that both guilds have used to determine if they were going to petition or not. By your leadership's own words you count the time he's pathing away from camp so the time he takes pathing out of the commoner building and the time he takes standing there killing Zssah aren't counted. It's crystal clear.

[remen]

Both you and Daewen are wrong as I've already pointed out in a prior post.


Your opinion, and creative interpretation of the video has been made clear. Situations like these are why we sadly need objective third parties to step in. There's no need for us to go back and forth further. Eventually the GMs will tell us who is correct.

[Croco]

Your opinion, and creative interpretation of the video has been made clear. Situations like these are why we sadly need objective third parties to step in. There's no need for us to go back and forth further. Eventually the GMs will tell us who is correct.

Completely agree with you there. I think the biggest reason why we are where we currently are is there's no one steering the ship. We need active GM's that make decisive rulings and hand down real punishments instead of just slaps on the wrist.