What's the actual population of the Green server?

[Kuntguard]

One of the first people I grouped with on Green asked me to join his Discord channel, and was very proud to share that he had 4 mages holding down separate cash camps. He told me that technically boxing isn't allowed, but no one gets in trouble unless multiple players report you. He said by keeping your boxed players in separate zones, it's very unlikely you'll get in trouble. Of course I reported this player, but I am wondering:

When the server login screen shows 1,000 people signed in, how many of those are unique players (and not mage armies, EC tunnel bots, etc)?

[Scalem]

Maybe 5 actual players.

[Albanwr]

Over 9000

[starkind]

These mages constantly handing me summoned goodies.

U got a screenshot?

[TripSin]

Maybe 5 actual players.

On weekends and some weeknights it gets up to 7 when the 2 who only do RMT'ing as a side hustle instead of their main job come to play.

[Baler]

https://unixgeek.com/eqemu.html

Low pop - 400
High pop - 1100

With the single-box rule that number is very impressive.
Green is the largest everquest private server.

[Jimjam]

When it is 400, 100 are afk at character select and another 50 afk in EC, but even 250 non primetime impresses me!

[unsunghero]

Better than private servers like TAKP where you can literally divide the population by 1/3 to get the actual number because literally everyone there is 3boxing (because why not? If it’s allowed), and few are grouping. And if they are it’s grouping a box team with a box team

I boxed mage/nec (+2 healing mercs) on live and with that duo didn’t need any help for any group content. Boxing can be fun - it was for me - but it destroys the group game

[Baler]

unsunghero by that logic you can divide the population of ProjectEQ by 56. :rolleyes:

Admittedly P99 is pretty awesome having 1 real life person be 1 character in game.
Meaning every character you see on p99 is a real life person.

[Fammaden]

Better than private servers like TAKP where you can literally divide the population by 1/3 to get the actual number because literally everyone there is 3boxing (because why not? If it’s allowed), and few are grouping. And if they are it’s grouping a box team with a box team

Even worse, the xp formula on TAKP makes it so the best xp rate is with four people in a group, so people three boxing will often just have someone's toon afk leaching xp to give them the extra boost, rather than ever making a full group of six.

[Darkwoo]

To answer the original question, when the server population shows 1,000 I would guess ~400-500 unique players. Some people follow the single-box rule, however, there are a lot of people who don't care. It's loosely enforced because the GMs appreciate the inflated population #s. Most of my family and friends have already quit due to the very disappointing end game on Green.

[cannobeers3]

Report boxers. OP is likely guilty of other things, as well as boxing. Kind of left field otherwise.

[cannobeers3]

To answer the original question, when the server population shows 1,000 I would guess ~400-500 unique players. Some people follow the single-box rule, however, there are a lot of people who don't care. It's loosely enforced because the GMs appreciate the inflated population #s. Most of my family and friends have already quit due to the very disappointing end game on Green.

Eh. This seems like horse shit.

[cd288]

To answer the original question, when the server population shows 1,000 I would guess ~400-500 unique players. Some people follow the single-box rule, however, there are a lot of people who don't care. It's loosely enforced because the GMs appreciate the inflated population #s. Most of my family and friends have already quit due to the very disappointing end game on Green.

This is completely incorrect. I would subtract like a third of the population of EC as tunnel mules (maybe being boxed or just people tunnel questing) so that’s like 50 people. Then I would say there’s probably like another 50-100 characters that are boxed throughout the world (and that’s total, not 100 people playing an additional character making 200. Its 50 people playing an additional character making it 100). That’s just my rough estimate.

GMs don’t loosely enforce the boxing rules at all. The only reason I speculate it could be as high as 100 is my theory is there could be people out just XPing in remote corners of the world where no one comes across them and pays them any mind/thinks to watch and report them. Or people playing solo characters in different zones. But if you report boxing the GMs will for sure enforce it hard, there’s so much evidence of this fact. Don’t insult the staff by acting like they don’t enforce the rule because they care about some number on a screen.

[Snortles Chortles]

they only enforce serious matters like dispelling mobs stolen from you

[Chris1479]

Very shocked and disappointed to hear about multiboxing on this server. There's been times occasionally where I've thought to myself "man, wouldn't it be nice to just be able to get a quick port to X" or something, or "I could really do with some enc buffs rn", but I feel very passionately that it's just wrong. It depends on the server of course, if it's allowed it's allowed, but Green is the gold standard for EQ for me and it just makes me sad to see people trashing it like this.

The reason I regard is as trashy behaviour that trashes the game is:

- Multiboxing is cancerous to the character and spirit of a server. It eats away at the bedrock of what breathes life into an otherwise sterile server and world, irrespective of how well-crafted and attractive that world may be. When you're second guessing whether whole groups are real people or not, it completely shatters the 4th wall for me. EQ is a very immersive game for the most part and boxing ruins it. It turns the world into a wasteland of bots farming plat.
- Multiboxing allows selfish individuals to multiply their cancerous behaviour to ruin large areas of the game. Individuals who won't multibox and who value their account are punished with being unable to access key areas for drops.

It's basically the equivalent of someone taking up 4 seats on a packed bus at rush hour. Selfish, anti-social, and you deserve to be thrown off.

I 100% hope every single person who sees someone they suspect is multiboxing goes to the trouble of at least attempting to report it. I would drop the ban-hammer so fucking hard on multiboxers they would regret ever playing P99 in the first place.

Fuck multiboxers. If it's allowed on your server that's your prerogative, if it's not, fuck you.

[sajbert]

Multiboxing is relatively rare. The consequences are dire so few fuck with it. Does it happen? Yes. Is every third person you see a multiboxer? No.

What IS common is account sharing and it's a problem of it's own. Guilds gearing shared characters allowing dumb shit like mage pet spam and trivializing raid content. Or allowing multiple players to camp manastone for days on a single character.

[annali]

Multiboxing is relatively rare. The consequences are dire so few fuck with it. Does it happen? Yes. Is every third person you see a multiboxer? No.

What IS common is account sharing and it's a problem of it's own. Guilds gearing shared characters allowing dumb shit like mage pet spam and trivializing raid content. Or allowing multiple players to camp manastone for days on a single character.


The number of "brothers" and "wives" I've seen logging in to port, rezz and/or roll extra on pickup raids is ridiculous.

[HalflingSpergand]

Top players all cheat and do this shit obviously. Stay under level 20 and keep your nose clean

[starkind]

Are druids and necromancers REAL? Some would say they are just choices or lifestyles, I don't know if I've met any real ones.

[Wyclef31]

Sometimes,I visit my dad and we like to play together like the old days. We do this maybe one week out of the year, and we have been given a boxing test once. We passed obviously but this would lead me to believe it's not just loosly enforced.

[HalflingSpergand]

It is enforced but how can you enforce someones "brother" parking a toon in ec and then popping in to buff/port/bank whatever thr fuck for 5 minutes with no witnesses and then going back to ec . Or sitting in a different zone and hopping around helping out other people they are boxing just its not obvious and completely unenforceable. It's always going to be a problem that can't be fixed

Even if they're was no ip exemptions people will use vpn its totally unenforceable

[Penish]

5307 EQ members total, information is displayed directly on THIS website.

[starkind]

It is enforced but how can you enforce someones "brother" parking a toon in ec and then popping in to buff/port/bank whatever thr fuck for 5 minutes with no witnesses and then going back to ec . Or sitting in a different zone and hopping around helping out other people they are boxing just its not obvious and completely unenforceable. It's always going to be a problem that can't be fixed

Even if they're was no ip exemptions people will use vpn its totally unenforceable

I don't really mind at this point the game is 22 years old. A lot of these guys will offer free buffs to others, so it's not exactly antisocial. Take it as a sign of the games age.

I wonder what pantheon will be like.

I want to make an elf simulator, not sure how I would stop boxing. But I would create a player run elf court so they could deal with it communally when it gets out of hand.

[HalflingSpergand]

Ya same here. Couldn't give a fuck less i think it's funny they have to sneak around and hope no one rats them out. At least staff makes effort and it's not obvious. Props to the staff

[HalflingSpergand]

It's not the games age, its a trait of humanity. Don't expect it to change. The internet is a toxic wasteland.

[HalflingSpergand]

Your character needs to be tied to your social security number somehow that's the best way probably. The government exists because humans are dirty little shitbags

[starkind]

Your character needs to be tied to your social security number somehow that's the best way probably. The government exists because humans are dirty little shitbags

Agreed, but I have been privileged 2 know some great bros.

[cd288]

It is enforced but how can you enforce someones "brother" parking a toon in ec and then popping in to buff/port/bank whatever thr fuck for 5 minutes with no witnesses and then going back to ec . Or sitting in a different zone and hopping around helping out other people they are boxing just its not obvious and completely unenforceable. It's always going to be a problem that can't be fixed

Even if they're was no ip exemptions people will use vpn its totally unenforceable

To a certain extent yes but there are also ways that situations like that can be flagged. If the accounts have ever been logged in on the same IPs and computer (not at the same time obviously) you can probably assume those chars are being boxed at some point. Of course that probably take a lot of time and resources to sift through and these people are volunteers.

[HalflingSpergand]

Everyone has multiple old pc, laptop that easily run eq.
Everyone has multiplr phones to hotspot or vpn easily.
Everyone likely has atleast 1 brain cell and 0 integrity

The bar to enter is extremely low that why it is a probleM

There is no way to fix the problem you can only chase the losers around and ban accounts and the staff here does a great job of it

[coki]

The number of "brothers" and "wives" I've seen logging in to port, rezz and/or roll extra on pickup raids is ridiculous.

The thing is I would rather teach my wife or brother or sister how to play and port/buff me in video game over risking loosing all my stuff and characters... I'm sure many others feel this way too

[HalflingSpergand]

This is the public park with the heroin and needles and pillows and blankets next to the toilets that everyone has access to.

You want to go to the private gated home owners association park but guess what, you can't afford that shit!

[starkind]

Everyone has multiple old pc, laptop that easily run eq.
Everyone has multiplr phones to hotspot or vpn easily.
Everyone likely has atleast 1 brain cell and 0 integrity

The bar to enter is extremely low that why it is a probleM

There is no way to fix the problem you can only chase the losers around and ban accounts and the staff here does a great job of it

I only have 1 uber computer.
I don't have a VPN and dont want to virtual box to run multiple VPNs from one machine because that's too confusing.
I have 0 integrity, 0 brain cels, just act on pure instinct and feelings alone.

I love EQ.

[TripSin]

The number of "brothers" and "wives" I've seen logging in to port, rezz and/or roll extra on pickup raids is ridiculous.

I once had a guy in my party log onto his "brother's" account just to SoW me for running across Dagnor's Couldron back to unrest after a wipe. Didn't bother to log out of the account he was on. I could've just ran that without it. These people don't give af and it's sad.

[unsunghero]

I just donated again as a thanks to whoever manages these servers

I’d donate a lot more if I ever actually heard of things like RMT and boxing being policed. Rather than guides spending all their time solving whiny raid item disputes. It’s RMT and boxing that actually ruins game servers in the long run

[cd288]

Everyone has multiple old pc, laptop that easily run eq.
Everyone has multiplr phones to hotspot or vpn easily.
Everyone likely has atleast 1 brain cell and 0 integrity

The bar to enter is extremely low that why it is a probleM

There is no way to fix the problem you can only chase the losers around and ban accounts and the staff here does a great job of it

Of course they do but if you’ve ever used the same PC to log onto those accounts at one point or another, it will show up on your account history. They’ll be able to see that the Druid and Warrior, for instance, that are both currently logged in have both been played on Computer A at some point in their life. If you ever logged them in on the same IP at different times in the past, that will also show up. At least I believe that’s the case based on the info green grocer released way back when.

The staff have info they could search through to understand if you might be boxing/. They’re not totally reliant on player reports. So think twice before boxing.

[HalflingSpergand]

I understand where your heart is at cd288 but it's time to get real. The shit is not enforceable and most families/lonely people have more than 3 computers capable of running 1999 everquest

[Danth]

Just about the surest sign of guilt is a dude standing around insisting "everyone does it!!!"

Danth

[HalflingSpergand]

Whoever smelt it dealth it: absolute eternal truth or stupid bull shit

[UrkTheSlayer]

Dang, multiple camps: that’s pretty smart. You know the biggest POS’s are pretty crafty sometimes.

[Darkwoo]

This is completely incorrect. I would subtract like a third of the population of EC as tunnel mules (maybe being boxed or just people tunnel questing) so that’s like 50 people. Then I would say there’s probably like another 50-100 characters that are boxed throughout the world (and that’s total, not 100 people playing an additional character making 200. Its 50 people playing an additional character making it 100). That’s just my rough estimate.

GMs don’t loosely enforce the boxing rules at all. The only reason I speculate it could be as high as 100 is my theory is there could be people out just XPing in remote corners of the world where no one comes across them and pays them any mind/thinks to watch and report them. Or people playing solo characters in different zones. But if you report boxing the GMs will for sure enforce it hard, there’s so much evidence of this fact. Don’t insult the staff by acting like they don’t enforce the rule because they care about some number on a screen.

You're assuming that all the rule breakers are only two-boxing (and not three-boxing, four-boxing, etc).

[cd288]

You're assuming that all the rule breakers are only two-boxing (and not three-boxing, four-boxing, etc).

Which would be even more obvious and less likely to be occurring.

[Darkwoo]

Which would be even more obvious and less likely to be occurring.

Ignorance is bliss

[cd288]

Ignorance is bliss

Lol ok man

[SunDrake]

Once I moved to TLPs and started talking with other former P99 players, it became pretty clear that a larger number than I ever imagined boxed on P99.

[TripSin]

Once I moved to TLPs and started talking with other former P99 players, it became pretty clear that a larger number than I ever imagined boxed on P99.

If you take a look at the rants and off topic forums (would not advise actually doing this), it becomes immediately apparent that Project 1999 attracts a significant amount of trash in human form for some reason.

[gherron]

If you take a look at the rants and off topic forums (would not advise actually doing this), it becomes immediately apparent that Project 1999 attracts a significant amount of trash in human form for some reason.

I would agree to a certain point. Are you saying that the "trash" is responsible for boxing?

Some of the people at the rants and off-topic forums will probably make the news (or may they were on the news around Jan 6th).

[OuterChimp]

I think it is time to remind folks...

Snitches get stitches!

[kaev]

Just about the surest sign of guilt is a dude standing around insisting "everyone does it!!!"

Danth

Aye, that's a pretty standard excuse from the guilty.

I've been on p99 on and off for over 9 years, in that time I've known six players who boxed and every one of them got caught and accounts banned. Known others who got tested because duo with semi-afk wife/girlfriend. See questionable stuff once in a while, those characters always seem to disappear eventually and never return.

[cd288]

If you take a look at the rants and off topic forums (would not advise actually doing this), it becomes immediately apparent that Project 1999 attracts a significant amount of trash in human form for some reason.

Didn’t you get suspended or banned from the subreddit for calling someone autistic and retarded?

[BlackBellamy]

Can everyone just post their name and address here so we can get an accurate count of how many people are here without alts?

I'm gonna start:

Kurt Russell
Pacific Palisades, CA

[HalflingSpergand]

Ben and Jerry (no we are not boxing)
Seattle or Portland not sure really (Vermont)

[Snortles Chortles]

Snake Plikssen
Manhattan, New York

[rictus204]

dizzy flores
zegema beach

[Jimjam]

James Workshop,
Nottingham Engerland.

[Jontheripper]

Whats the punishment for boxing anyhow?

[Gustoo]

Whats the punishment for boxing anyhow?

temp then permabanned. SOmetimes instant permaban

[Gustoo]

About the multi boxxers - ya the problem with this is if you're a mage sitting at a boring cash camp its pretty easy to respond to stuff. If you're on all different connections there isn't a whole lot to connect one of those characters to another when they aren't interacting with one another.

And I think the enforcement has favored the elimination of "pocket" enchanters, "pocket" clerics ETC having a random extra character adding utility to your other character or power leveling yourself.

Only way to fix the cash camp boxing is to make it pvp enabled so you can't just afk at a camp all day and expect to keep it.

[HalflingSpergand]

If pvp no one would play.

One way you could make it less convenient to afk box would be to require you hit a button every minute or so. (Less or more it could be fine tuned) Any button even chat. Or else it logs you out

[Tunabros]

lol red players

[Jontheripper]

If pvp no one would play.

One way you could make it less convenient to afk box would be to require you hit a button every minute or so. (Less or more it could be fine tuned) Any button even chat. Or else it logs you out

That sounds absolutely horrific

[starkind]

Naw p would just automate the button push. It has to be something prohibitively hard for a machine to solve.

Can't think of too much as there's already pretty convincing Turing machines that are really hard to foul up. Like GPT3.

Just have to make everyone follow the rules and random good drops. Machine and man alike. Can't let them own a camp indefinitely.

A 400 pop vanilla only pvp server with itemloot would be lit AF tho.

[Darkwoo]

As the server population continues to decrease, I anticipate that boxing will be more and more widespread.

[beargryllz]

Green is the most active Everquest server

That's accounting for all of Everquest, not just specific to P99

[unsunghero]

Green is the most active Everquest server

That's accounting for all of Everquest, not just specific to P99

Hard to say. If you include boxes, then Rizlona is probably the largest, because it has huge armies of boxers

Once it launches, Bristlebane/Mischief TLP will be capped at I believe ~2000 players, and will stay that way for a while if it remains popular

[Widan]

Red had the most boxing for sure, anyone who played there knows. But boxing has always been a thing on p99 since the very beginning.

[Darkwoo]

Based on the following poll, at least 1 in 4 players think that boxing is fine:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2738

[Sabin76]

I don't think a poll from 11 years ago when p99 first came online (where I'd bet most of the people who took the poll no longer play) holds any weight in the current discussion.

[Darkwoo]

I don't think a poll from 11 years ago when p99 first came online (where I'd bet most of the people who took the poll no longer play) holds any weight in the current discussion.

Since most of us are from 20 years ago, I think the poll is still somewhat relevant... but I agree with you to some extent.

[Sabin76]

Since most of us are from 20 years ago, I think the poll is still somewhat relevant... but I agree with you to some extent.

My point was more that people have now been playing on this "boxless" server for quite some time, if they aren't new, and opinions on whether that's a good or bad thing could have shifted immensely in that time.

[tristantio]

p99 should take a page out of the private DAOC Phoenix server's way of handling/preventing boxing.

Phoenix prevents boxing using VPNs across multiple VMs/Docker images by requiring using a custom launcher to get into the game - that launcher runs checks across common files these virtualization solutions typically have (down in driver files etc. for them).

On host machine, it associates hardware info (hard drive serial id, mac address on NIC etc.) with an account, to prevent account sharing (after a hardware fingerprint is registered with an account, that hardware cannot run any other accounts).

Still can't prevent it entirely though - if people have 3 distinct hardware machines and 3 VPNs, and play in a way where they don't interact with their boxed accounts, nothing can really be done about them tripling their solo camps or group play.

[Baler]

p99 should take a page out of the private DAOC Phoenix server's way of handling/preventing boxing.

Phoenix prevents boxing using VPNs across multiple VMs/Docker images by requiring using a custom launcher to get into the game - that launcher runs checks across common files these virtualization solutions typically have (down in driver files etc. for them).

On host machine, it associates hardware info (hard drive serial id, mac address on NIC etc.) with an account, to prevent account sharing (after a hardware fingerprint is registered with an account, that hardware cannot run any other accounts).

Still can't prevent it entirely though - if people have 3 distinct hardware machines and 3 VPNs, and play in a way where they don't interact with their boxed accounts, nothing can really be done about them tripling their solo camps or group play.

Project 99's Dsetup.dll sends users hardware ID to P99.
Rogean has said this himself.

[cd288]

p99 should take a page out of the private DAOC Phoenix server's way of handling/preventing boxing.

Phoenix prevents boxing using VPNs across multiple VMs/Docker images by requiring using a custom launcher to get into the game - that launcher runs checks across common files these virtualization solutions typically have (down in driver files etc. for them).

On host machine, it associates hardware info (hard drive serial id, mac address on NIC etc.) with an account, to prevent account sharing (after a hardware fingerprint is registered with an account, that hardware cannot run any other accounts).

Still can't prevent it entirely though - if people have 3 distinct hardware machines and 3 VPNs, and play in a way where they don't interact with their boxed accounts, nothing can really be done about them tripling their solo camps or group play.

Literally the last paragraph of your post is allegedly how most people box on P99 so you essentially just wrote a whole post about something that P99 should do and then said that it’s not possible for P99 to prevent anything

[Darkwoo]

Project 99's Dsetup.dll sends users hardware ID to P99.
Rogean has said this himself.

Yes, the staff have this information but they do nothing with it because without boxers the population would be closer to ~500 (or less) during peak hours.

[kaev]

Yes, the staff have this information but they do nothing with it because without boxers the population would be closer to ~500 (or less) during peak hours.

and what about them chemtrails, huh? it's all a deepstate plot i'm tellin ya!

[Frug]

Yes, the staff have this information but they do nothing with it because without boxers the population would be closer to ~500 (or less) during peak hours.

I hear qanon is looking for a few good folks.

[Cawin]

I hear qanon is looking for a few good folks.

I heard they had an opening for a Shaman