Platinum Standard

[Grumph]

What’s the true underlying cause of toxicity on this server?

Has sharing helped? The draft? Bag limits? Petitions? Punishments?

The true culprit behind all the sad feelings: DKP.

The solution? Plat. Split. Everything.


Tell me if you’ve heard this story before. You see a guild. You join a guild. You see people with dkp. They spend dkp. You start earning dkp. So do more people. You try to get what you want. Prices fluctuate.

What is dkp worth? Are the guild founders skimming off the top? Are guild mates abusing the system?

And these are minor identity threats compared to: that other guild just killed the mob that drops what I want! Now what do I do with all this dkp!

Even greater threat: my guild is starting to loose! Dkp is pilling up with nothing to spend on! Hyperinflation! And if I speak up about it I can be unilaterally guild kicked! Stockholmes syndrome!



Imagine an alternate reality. Guilds bid out items. In platinum. And each participant gets a share of the proceeds.

Calculating idol and hate stone and recharge costs would be easier than all the different dkp calculations already being performed.

Now. When you loose a mob. Your competitors are taking future earnings away from you.

But they’re not devaluing all of your previous work.

That’s a huge difference.

And if anyone cared about toxicity - they’d declare that guilds can no longer create their own personal fiat currencies (dkp) and all must transition to the Platinum Standard.

[starkind]

IMO on blue things cost way to much for tradeskills which is super toxic, so I rolled on green because pelts/mana vails etc...

who the fuck wants to have to roll an enchanter alt to do tradeskills?

[Toxigen]

Ron Paul 2012

[starkind]

Maybe OP should join a different guild, just barter for a DKP package with the winning guild. I'm sure they won't mind the other guild losing a player.

[enjchanter]

Ive always thought a plat based guild would be a good idea personally. Pay out to the raid for getting the kill based off the plat the items went for. You can join and make raiding a plat farm or you can join and buy into the most fair version of loot distribution.

[Cassawary]

https://i.imgur.com/pD25jwV.jpg

[Arvan]

denial
anger
bargaining -- You Are Here
depression
acceptance

[starkind]

Ive always thought a plat based guild would be a good idea personally. Pay out to the raid for getting the kill based off the plat the items went for. You can join and make raiding a plat farm or you can join and buy into the most fair version of loot distribution.

Would be fun if it actually happend IMO.

Or a guild that let you spend plat on DKP.

[Horza]

What’s the true underlying cause of toxicity on this server?

https://i.imgur.com/k9tiHVf.png

[Bardp1999]

On P99 there are "haves" and "have nots". The "haves" think everything is working great and the "have nots" think everything is toxic and make retarded RnF posts.

Praying for you OP

[Bardp1999]

On P99 there are "haves" and "have nots". The "haves" think everything is working great and the "have nots" think everything is toxic and make retarded RnF posts.

Praying for you OP

[Trexller]

OP is making another "money is the root of all evil" argument.

Certainly the toxicity on the server has nothing to do with bitter 40 year olds desperately trying to chase the dragon of pixel induced endorphins that they became addicted to as kids.

Nah, definitely can't be that.

[Maliant]

I think that’s one of the things that made classic EQ and P99 unique. Your reputation and the political alliances you form are paramount to succeeding in the end game. It’s like a little GoT world full of Joffreys, Ned Starks and Little Fingers. Trust is a commodity worth its weight in platinum.

[Trexller]

I think that’s one of the things that made classic EQ and P99 unique. Your reputation and the political alliances you form are paramount to succeeding in the end game. It’s like a little GoT world full of Joffreys, Ned Starks and Little Fingers. Trust is a commodity worth its weight in platinum.

So... The Real World?

[Bardp1999]

I think that’s one of the things that made classic EQ and P99 unique. Your reputation and the political alliances you form are paramount to succeeding in the end game. It’s like a little GoT world full of Joffreys, Ned Starks and Little Fingers. Trust is a commodity worth its weight in platinum.

https://i.imgur.com/A4Qquhx.jpg

[Trexller]

when you can't think of a good topical meme, but are still compelled to post ^

[Grumph]

14423

[Littul Jonn]

He’s not wrong. I mean think of the only reason you’re really mad for losing a dragon. It’s because you invest 4 hours of your life into that one thing and now you get nothing. That’s also why people don’t change guilds ever, it takes a year in whatever mega guilds there are now to get a vindi bp so why change guilds and start that process over?

[myrddraal]

He’s not wrong. I mean think of the only reason you’re really mad for losing a dragon. It’s because you invest 4 hours of your life into that one thing and now you get nothing. That’s also why people don’t change guilds ever, it takes a year in whatever mega guilds there are now to get a vindi bp so why change guilds and start that process over?

Not even close to remotely true lol. Depending how dedicated you want to be tracking / racing / ETing you can easily make the DKP for a decent item in a month or two. Unless you're saving for a specific item like vulak gloves or a ruby tear, those will definitely take longer, and if you dont track / sock / race you basically will never see that item no matter how much flat kill DKP you earn.

Ive earned and spent more dkp faster in Riot than I ever did in AG. Dont know how Vanquish's system works beyond what I've heard about emphasizing roles and minimizing kill DKP. Dont care to learn any more, happy with my throughput here :)

[RecondoJoe]

I had to leave a Guild on World of Warcraft that I otherwise really liked because of the DKP system.

I was a Rogue and despite being the top DPS in the entire 25 man guild I was ineligible for loot for 6+ months because Rogues share the same token as Death Knights, Mages, and Druids, and in that 25 man guild there was so many Mages, Death Knights, Druids and even other Rogues who had more DKP than me that I actually got a calculator out and did the math on it, and even if the items I needed dropped every week (which would never happen), it would come out to like 4-5 months before I would have my chance at getting loot. By that time the new raid would have already come out, so I was basically raiding for no reason.

Now maybe that's just me being greedy, for not wanting to raid for 6 months straight to watch guys who are doing inferior dps and not showing up to half the raids get loot before I become eligible for a single item, but when you can join literally any new guild, or a guild that doesn't use DKP and have a fair shot at those items the same day... it's a no brainer.

Think the final nail in the coffin was when another Rogue, who was an officer, had missed a ton of raids. In fact, I had only seen him on one raid since I joined (I had been raiding for about a month), and the best Rogue dagger in the entire game dropped (Scaleslicer at the time). I was super excited because I was the only Rogue who had shown up. Do I get this dagger? No, it goes into the Guild Leader's bags for the other Rogue who no one has seen for a month. Other people in the raid actually got upset because they knew I was the only person who showed up to every raid and was consistently top DPS.

But yeah, that was it for me. I didn't rage, I waited til a few hours after the raid, and I joined another guild, and a week later when my Guild Leader saw me I already had better gear than he did by simply joining a newer guild where everyone had a fair shot at loot. He seemed to resent the fact that my items were better than his, like I didn't deserve to have better gear than he did? Like IDK. Very strange mentality.

DKP can be very toxic.

[Gustoo]

Sounds disgusting I’m super ill because of this thread.

Need before greed, random on stuff that everyone needs. Cool down period for ransoms after you win mega elite stuff.

Everyone will show up because they have a chance to get something. Only one alt allowed and only once you’ve got one toon totally jacked up and no one wants you to stop showing up with your roided out psycho toon.

[Gustoo]

Random is perfectly fair. Everyone who shows up gets a chance. If you are unreliable and consistently only show up to raids that could generate items you want, you get removed from the guild. Fair n square.

Maybe there were too many people skipping raids that didn’t have items they wanted? Figure something out or make a real guild where people give a shit.

The toxic on the server is from RMT like the other posters thread it’s impossible that people are pharming the way the do for any reason besides paying bills.

[Maschenny]

He’s not wrong. I mean think of the only reason you’re really mad for losing a dragon. It’s because you invest 4 hours of your life into that one thing and now you get nothing. That’s also why people don’t change guilds ever, it takes a year in whatever mega guilds there are now to get a vindi bp so why change guilds and start that process over?

In vanq you could earn enough dkp for a vindi bp in 1-2 days.

[Jibartik]

₱latcoin

[Grumph]

Random is perfectly fair. Everyone who shows up gets a chance. If you are unreliable and consistently only show up to raids that could generate items you want, you get removed from the guild. Fair n square.

Maybe there were too many people skipping raids that didn’t have items they wanted? Figure something out or make a real guild where people give a shit.

The toxic on the server is from RMT like the other posters thread it’s impossible that people are pharming the way the do for any reason besides paying bills.


I don’t endorse rando Ming for loot. Not for guilds. Not even for groups. If you go on a loosing streak and never win anything? Feels bad. If you at least get a little plats from the drops you’ve seen? Feels good.


Random is worse than DKP. Immediately leads to all this weird “need before greed” and “you still better show up!” Shaming language.

Why? Because you want other people to show up for free (probably) so you can get something for almost nothing (hopefully).


Dkp at least accrues over time. And obviously Platnum. Value for value is good.


But its the feeling of sunk cost - enormous time wasted - that builds resentment when you see a competitor win.

They didn’t just beat you today. They devalued all the DKP you’ve saved.


Randoms and DKP both have significant anti social consequences. Plat sharing is the best of both worlds.

[Gustoo]

I don't understand the plat sharing but maybe that system is fine.

DKP obviously hopeless system pyramid scheme.

[myrddraal]

Sounds disgusting I’m super ill because of this thread.

Need before greed, random on stuff that everyone needs. Cool down period for ransoms after you win mega elite stuff.

Everyone will show up because they have a chance to get something. Only one alt allowed and only once you’ve got one toon totally jacked up and no one wants you to stop showing up with your roided out psycho toon.

random is by for the worst system imo. When I was in a guild that randomed everything people would roll on everything just because it was usable by all classes and races. Or would lose the only piece of loot at their level of raiding that I could even use to someone on their first raid who never showed back up.

[Ennewi]

"Feed the hole" scene from Romeo Is Bleeding (1993) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v562BUyc6J4)

[Cassawary]

To ensure the maximum utility is extracted from our resources, a Loot Value Tax(LVT) must be implemented

[Ratchet51]

On P99 there are "haves" and "have nots". The "haves" think everything is working great and the "have nots" think everything is toxic and make retarded RnF posts.

Praying for you OP

You're a pretty smart guy, Spyder73.

[cd288]

Great so then the play camps will be permanently camped by raid guild neckbeards nonstop even after they have already obtained a decent amount of play. Great situation for the non raiders; super smart OP

[Naethyn]

Guild banks are a reality and that’s the only hang up I see.

[7thGate]

Randoming loses the most important part of a currency based loot distribution, which is the ability for people to indicate how much they actually care about items so it goes to the person who values it the most.

You random stuff, you're purposefully reducing the overall economic utility of the items you're getting for your raidforce. Purposefully making people get less of the stuff they want in exchange for getting more of the stuff they don't want tends to not be a really good resource allocation system.

The platinum thing proposed here seems fine; everyone wins when you get a raid target, and you keep the price signals so items go to people who want them the most. The administrative overhead is probably the worst part, because you really want to use a ledger to avoid a ton of overhead but that requires someone sticking an enormous quantity of platinum on a guild banker that's technically got accounts from a lot of members. That's just asking for someone to walk off with it. One of the benefits of a company-scrip style DKP fiat currency system is that noone can steal all of the DKP and run off with it.

If you don't do it with a common ledger based system, you need everyone to have their own bank character, then payouts become really cumbersome. Maybe its viable to have a hybrid model where most people keep their plat on one of their own characters but get paid out once a week from a common banker or something.

[RecondoJoe]

Randoming loses the most important part of a currency based loot distribution, which is the ability for people to indicate how much they actually care about items so it goes to the person who values it the most.

Disagree. On WoW it actually tracks how many times you’ve killed certain mobs in raid zones. I think I ran Siege of Orgrimmar like 36 times to get a bracer and never got it. I saw many noobs get it on their first run.

It was actually really good for the community because it forced an extremely experienced player (myself) to lead and organize raids that consisted of mostly under geared and inexperienced players and lead them through this content on a weekly basis since after week 12 most people had gotten what they wanted from SoO and moved on with their lives.

You express how bad you want equipment by showing up all of the time. This is also how I was one of the first Rogues on my server to get full Woven Shadow and Assassin’s armor. I didn’t have really good luck with randoms- I was the only rogue who consistently showed up to raids. I lost a ton of randoms to bad / noobs, but those same noobs hardly ever raided so they only had that one piece of armor. When I finally completed my sets it showed people how much time and dedication I put into getting that armor, which also showed my level of experience with the raid scene.

[unsunghero]

Gold DKP runs are what ruined World of Warcraft classic. Grab those credit cards and head over to the plat selling sites

All games given enough time become pay $$ to win