Why did devs make non-classic , non-rotating hot zones?

[BurtMacklinFBI]

The green 50+ leveling experience is about not classic as you can get. The devs effectively added a 'hot zone' from post-trilogy eq in The Hole. Nowhere else is worth going due to the zem and everyone just piles in if they somehow aren't aware by now.

Can the devs please look at the kunark zems like they did to the classic zems to fix this issue? It would help make the server more classic and spread the love around outside of one zone for a majority of the games leveling population.

[Gustoo]

The ZEM's are as classic as possible, one would need to provide better data on the ZEM's to indicate a change should be made.

The non classic we are now experiencing is the 22 year old non classic high detailed knowledge of the game we are playing. The nearly comprehensive wiki and ZEM details using methods that most people didn't even know about in 1999.

So what you are really asking for is a non classic solution to a non classic problem. I fully support NON classic rotating ZEM's though I would do it in a classic way, with a vague reference to a particular zone and the changes in the feeling in the air...ETC.

[Cen]

imagine if the ZEMs rotated completely randomly every day. I mean, it aint classic, but it would be inperceptibly classic ;D

[bchennau]

imagine if the ZEMs rotated completely randomly every day. I mean, it aint classic, but it would be inperceptibly classic ;D

I actually love this idea, maybe weekly but it would be awesome to have "word of mouth" back in the game.

[Fammaden]

Can the devs please look at the kunark zems like they did to the classic zems to fix this issue?

The boost to the Hole's modifier WAS part of the classic ZEM overhaul they did, but the hole just wasn't out on green yet. I posted in the patch note thread well prior to Kunark about how this would be the situation after we saw how it took hold on blue way before green Kunark/Hole patch. They considered the Hole as an old world zone, not Kunark.

The Hole's ZEM was already quite good on P99 prior to all this even though it was hard to convince people to go there on blue in the past. The increase was obviously overkill. Even if this was the classic modifier rate there certainly weren't this many people PUG'ing the zone in classic Kunark, not even close.

[Snortles Chortles]

you're in our world now
(LOL)

[BlackBellamy]

The ZEM's are as classic as possible, one would need to provide better data on the ZEM's to indicate a change should be made.



hole zem wasn't boosted until a month after velious launched

[Shinko]

It’s kind of gross from 49-60 in a single zone only

[BurtMacklinFBI]

It’s kind of gross from 49-60 in a single zone only

it's goofy. it wasn't anything like how it was. just making dungeons 150 zem across the board and outdoor zones 120 or something like that would open things up quite a bit and spread out the player base the way it used to be.

[Cen]

150 across the board would cause the same issue, for obvious reasons.

[cd288]

I like how people pretend that before we had the current ZEMs everyone didn't just level in the same one or two zones anyway. Just look at Blue, everyone followed essentially the same leveling path.

[Toxigen]

I like how people pretend that before we had the current ZEMs everyone didn't just level in the same one or two zones anyway. Just look at Blue, everyone followed essentially the same leveling path.

You had options in KC, Seb, Velk, and HS.

Now if you aren't in the Hole, you're doing it wrong...and that sucks bigly.

[cd288]

You had options in KC, Seb, Velk, and HS.

Now if you aren't in the Hole, you're doing it wrong...and that sucks bigly.

Never saw many people in Velk or HS on Blue.

[Kirdan]

My favorite suggestion is to randomize the ZEMs and rotate them frequently.

[Fammaden]

While we're dreaming about things that aren't going to happen, make standard outdoor and indoor ZEM's across the board, then dynamically reduce the ZEM based on how many people are in the zone. The more players, the less xp that zone is.

[bchennau]

My favorite suggestion is to randomize the ZEMs and rotate them frequently.

Why did you spawn camp Bonquisha almost 18 years ago?

Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:07
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:06
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:35
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:05
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:29
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:15
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:31
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:35
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:36
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:45
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:59
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:32
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Wed, 16 Apr 2003 01:00
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Wed, 16 Apr 2003 01:02

[BurtMacklinFBI]

150 across the board would cause the same issue, for obvious reasons.

wrong

[Kirdan]

They were dumb enough to bind at Kaesora on SZ.

[bchennau]

They were dumb enough to bind at Kaesora on SZ.

What did you do for the hour+ between murdering Bonquisha and coming back?

Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:45
Cochise killed Bonquisha in The Field of Bone - Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:59

[Kirdan]

I wasn't the only one killing, it was a team effort. Couldn't tell you what I did in between though, my memory isn't that good! :p

[Un4Scene]

I agree with the OP. It's not just The Hole that's causing this problem either. At their respective level ranges, the same thing has been happening in Unrest and CT, as well. It's become extremely difficult to even find an XP group (much less actually join one) in zones that don't have the highest ZEM for the level range. Classic was not like that on the Live server I played on (Brell Serilis). There was usually a list of people waiting to get in to groups in SolB, LGuk, Mistmoore, Karnor's, Seb, etc.... On Green, it's usually nothing but farmers, or the rare solo'er in those zones. You wanna talk about "Classic" EQ? Why did VI do the all the zone revamps? They did them to try to encourage people to spend more time in under-utilized zones. I think something should be done for the same purpose here on Green. Randomizing the ZEM might help some, but as soon as people figure out which zone is "hot", the same thing will start again. Ya gotta spread the love around... I'm not saying that all zones should have the same ZEM, but at least even it out a bit so that it's not such a huge difference in XP. When people are still grouping in CT when every mob at the camp is green because it's still better XP than going somewhere else... that's a problem. When people are fighting over whether or not a "camp" that's being cleared by one group should be split in to two "camps", and arguing about who's camp each specific spawn point belongs to... that's a problem directly related to over-crowding in the zone. The over-crowding is a direct result of the zones unique ZEM. Changing the ZEM's could eliminate these problems instantly.

On a related note, I keep seeing people talking about how screwed up the economy is on Green... Well, perhaps if desirable loot was being obtained by someone other than just farmers trying to make a plat, it would help even things out. Just imagine: people might actually be able to XP in a place where they could potentially get gear upgrades, instead of just buying it from a farmer. People could get drops that are useful to the characters that actually got the drop, instead of just PL'ing to 60 and twinking their alt's. Ya know... like how the game was originally intended to be played... focused on the gear you could win, rather than the plat you could generate to buy gear to twink yourself with. I know... pie-in-the-sky ideals, but can you imagine a world where lv 55+ characters were actually trying to group in places to get the gear they want instead of farming lv 40 gear to sell so they could buy the higher level gear? What a thought...

[Mesocyclone]

Kurns ZEM has to be over 500 I can kill a green in Kurns and get more exp than 2 blues in LOIO

[Fammaden]

I agree with the OP. It's not just The Hole that's causing this problem either. At their respective level ranges, the same thing has been happening in Unrest and CT, as well. It's become extremely difficult to even find an XP group (much less actually join one) in zones that don't have the highest ZEM for the level range.

Classic was not like that on the Live server I played on (Brell Serilis). There was usually a list of people waiting to get in to groups in SolB, LGuk, Mistmoore, Karnor's, Seb, etc.... On Green, it's usually nothing but farmers, or the rare solo'er in those zones.

You wanna talk about "Classic" EQ? Why did VI do the all the zone revamps? They did them to try to encourage people to spend more time in under-utilized zones. I think something should be done for the same purpose here on Green.

Randomizing the ZEM might help some, but as soon as people figure out which zone is "hot", the same thing will start again. Ya gotta spread the love around... I'm not saying that all zones should have the same ZEM, but at least even it out a bit so that it's not such a huge difference in XP.

When people are still grouping in CT when every mob at the camp is green because it's still better XP than going somewhere else... that's a problem. When people are fighting over whether or not a "camp" that's being cleared by one group should be split in to two "camps", and arguing about who's camp each specific spawn point belongs to... that's a problem directly related to over-crowding in the zone. The over-crowding is a direct result of the zones unique ZEM. Changing the ZEM's could eliminate these problems instantly.

On a related note, I keep seeing people talking about how screwed up the economy is on Green... Well, perhaps if desirable loot was being obtained by someone other than just farmers trying to make a plat, it would help even things out. Just imagine: people might actually be able to XP in a place where they could potentially get gear upgrades, instead of just buying it from a farmer. People could get drops that are useful to the characters that actually got the drop, instead of just PL'ing to 60 and twinking their alt's. Ya know... like how the game was originally intended to be played... focused on the gear you could win, rather than the plat you could generate to buy gear to twink yourself with.

I know... pie-in-the-sky ideals, but can you imagine a world where lv 55+ characters were actually trying to group in places to get the gear they want instead of farming lv 40 gear to sell so they could buy the higher level gear? What a thought...

Better?

[cd288]

While we're dreaming about things that aren't going to happen, make standard outdoor and indoor ZEM's across the board, then dynamically reduce the ZEM based on how many people are in the zone. The more players, the less xp that zone is.

Yes totally you should be equally rewarded for sitting out in like south Karana instead of playing in a dangerous dungeon

[Man0warr]

Hole was insane XP on Live too at least by the Luclin era and AAs.

The problem is knowledge and people valuing the most efficient exp over loot (the Hole is terrible for loot). If you change the ZEMs again, people will just flock to the next most efficient exp+loot proposition. If you made all dungeons the same ZEM (not classic), then Sebilis would be the obvious play.

At least the Hole can support 8-12 groups comfortably without zone disruption.

I think making the least desirable dungeons the best exp (CT, Kedge, Permafrost, Hole) is the most classic, even if players value things differently now because we know more.

[Gustoo]

I agree about figuring out a way to get people to go to more than just the absolute supreme EXP modified zones. Its not healthy.

I do remember vividly on live how bad the EXP was in dreadlands and OT and frontier mountains, but I did it anyways because there was always 50+ in those zones, less in frontier mountains.

[Snortles Chortles]

guess it’s time to give all dungeons the same ZEM

[bomaroast]

guess it’s time to give all dungeons the same ZEM

This, but without the sarcasm.

[Gustoo]

Can't we all agree that we should be able to ride horses?

[Nirgon]

imagine if the ZEMs rotated completely randomly every day. I mean, it aint classic, but it would be inperceptibly classic ;D

Anything you don't like that's classic just keep ripping them a new one. It works.

Effort is toxic, being a bad sport is celebrated and rewarded.

[Weidar]

Nerfing highkeep exp on green is NOT classic.

[BurtMacklinFBI]

Another week, no pickup exp groups anywhere but the hole. No one exploring. No one trying anything outside the hole who is 50+ and wanting to exp. Loam spreading like a plague, every person's 4th caster alt in a full set.

#notclassic

[Solist]

SG and HS should have the highest ZEM's by a good margin, followed by chardok and dragon necropolis (but only for rats), then seb and the hole. Velks/kc etc a minor zem.

Reward the difficulty, access, recovery.

[loramin]

If we're being honest (and looking to the upper-left corner of this page), I think the only "correct" answer for Project 1999 is to use the classic ZEMs.

Now I can already hear the replies: doing that won't fix the "XP Highway" problem. You're right, but here's a newsflash: nothing classic ever will! ZEM highwaying was fixed on live by having new expansions, with new zones ... new zones with better loot and (often) better ZEMs (eg. Paludal Caverns). And of course "classic ignorance" (of what ZEMs were) was also a factor.

Since it's impossible to restore ZEM ignorance, and since we will never have new zones here (or maybe we'll get our first custom one in 2030), this is inherently an unsolvable problem: classic EQ was never designed to be played for this long without new content! Thus, P99 can choose between the classic option (classic ZEMs), or the "we're trying to fix a game that's inherently broken in it's recreation here" option (rotating ZEMs). But while the latter option would be better for the game, the staff will almost certainly never institute it, because it's not classic.

If that's the case ... let's just go back to the classic ZEMs. Their current choice, "unclassic ZEMS that create XP highways", doesn't seem to serve the project.

P.S. FWIW though, as much as I'm arguing for what I think is "most classic", because that's what this place is about ... if I had a vote, I'd vote rotating ZEMs. Yes it's unclassic, but the even bigger principle than "keep it classic" here is the principle of "classic EQ was freaking awesome, and this place exists to let people experience that awesomeness".

Highways don't let people see a huge percentage of the content, so in that sense they don't serve the even larger interest of the project. Rotating ("mysterious") ZEMs, unclassically every 6-12 months or so, would still be close to live ... and would let people see more of the awesome game of classic EQ.

[Snortles Chortles]

nerf all ZEMS

[Keebz]

Wasn't there a post where dolalin showed all the classic ZEMs, and then we just ignored them anyway?

[azxten]

Wasn't there a post where dolalin showed all the classic ZEMs, and then we just ignored them anyway?

Yes, I have mentioned it as well. Just search bug form for ZEM and you'll find it. Basically everything was like 75 if I remember right, some zones were between 75-100, and only a couple dungeons were slightly over 100. Something like that. If the ZEM list on Wiki is anything close to accurate where Perma gets 170 that is almost 2x classic exp rates.

[loramin]

Wasn't there a post where dolalin showed all the classic ZEMs, and then we just ignored them anyway?

Yes, that was the "classic mystery over classic ZEMs" thing I mentioned. The staff absolutely knows how to make ZEMs classic; they choose not to in a (rare) decision to prioritize how the server feels over making it literally the same as it was in 1999.

But again, while that's a noble aim (and I applaud them: I think making this place feel like '99 is far more important than making every number be exactly equal to what it was in '99) ... without rotations, in practice it just "forces" everyone to ignore 90% of the game's content.

[Manakim]

Yes, I have mentioned it as well. Just search bug form for ZEM and you'll find it. Basically everything was like 75 if I remember right, some zones were between 75-100, and only a couple dungeons were slightly over 100. Something like that. If the ZEM list on Wiki is anything close to accurate where Perma gets 170 that is almost 2x classic exp rates.

I lean to believing this. Since starting here on green i have always felt the leveling experience to be too easy compared to my experience back in the day. As a quadding wizard who played everyday, it took me nearly a year to hit 60.

[Ezeakiell]

The green 50+ leveling experience is about not classic as you can get. The devs effectively added a 'hot zone' from post-trilogy eq in The Hole. Nowhere else is worth going due to the zem and everyone just piles in if they somehow aren't aware by now.

Can the devs please look at the kunark zems like they did to the classic zems to fix this issue? It would help make the server more classic and spread the love around outside of one zone for a majority of the games leveling population.

- I agree, I wish the server would rotate zones with the same XP mod as the hole. It would really help with experiencing different content and learning the zones you will never really see again.

[Baler]

Runnyeye zem makes hole zem look bad.

[encopitt]

I personally think this comes down to the fact that post 35 hell levels, pixels become God, and ZEM is the only consideration players take into account for where to level.
I got more xp in CoM in 3 hours with a good group, then in Paw Judges camp with a very average group. Spawn times, mob HP and overall difficulty, should all be taken into the equation of where to level, but again, ZEM is the one thing that everyone knows about a zone.
I literally had a group port and run to CoM from WC, and leave after 15 minutes without even establishing a camp because "ZEM sux0rz here let's port to Paw or CT".
Personally I DGAF about ZEM, and if more people understood the why's of ZEM some of these zones would have more population and more potential to find groups.
As it stands there's a pretty linear path 90% of players do:
Area starting dungeon -> unrest -> Paw/CT -> solb/KC.
Sitting in CoM for a weekend and getting in 2 good groups and 1 bad one in 3 days, and having a dozen people beg me to come to CT/PAW specifically"cause ZEM" is annoying AF.
When the potential for better or at least equivalent moving pixels requires a doctorate in mathematics and a politicians gift of persuasion to get people to stop looking at the bolded ZEM for every zone as the end all be all for experience, it taks a lot of the fun out of it.

-encopitt

[Ravager]

One of my best times on Blue was a dungeon crawl in a group in a then empty Hole. It's good to see people aren't scared of that zone anymore.

[Arvan]

Yellow text isn't classic either - lets get that bumped to the top of the list before we get to zems

[BurtMacklinFBI]

Yellow text isn't classic either - lets get that bumped to the top of the list before we get to zems

pass, lets get the zem first

[Shinko]

RANDOM ZEM

/random 200 per week! and dont tell anyone per zone

[Old_PVP]

Min-Maxing nerds. :rolleyes:

How about leveling in a zone you enjoy... with or without ZEM?! :eek:

But I get it, ZEMs are cool... so we shouldn't get rid of them, but they should be random and frequently change. Most importantly though, players shouldn't know which zones have ZEM.

I imagine people would be exploring the world then... trying to discover which zone is modified, and trying to keep it a secret amongst their close friends to take advantage of it. Going Anonymous to hide location, etc.

[Jimjam]

Min-Maxing nerds. :rolleyes:

How about leveling in a zone you enjoy... with or without ZEM?! :eek:

But I get it, ZEMs are cool... so we shouldn't get rid of them, but they should be random and frequently change. Most importantly though, players shouldn't know which zones have ZEM.

I imagine people would be exploring the world then... trying to discover which zone is modified, and trying to keep it a secret amongst their close friends to take advantage of it. Going Anonymous to hide location, etc.

We’re talking about addicts. No enjoyment, just scratching the itch. Sorry.

[fastboy21]

Min-Maxing nerds. :rolleyes:

How about leveling in a zone you enjoy... with or without ZEM?! :eek:

But I get it, ZEMs are cool... so we shouldn't get rid of them, but they should be random and frequently change. Most importantly though, players shouldn't know which zones have ZEM.

I imagine people would be exploring the world then... trying to discover which zone is modified, and trying to keep it a secret amongst their close friends to take advantage of it. Going Anonymous to hide location, etc.

Hard to enjoy zones that nobody else ever plays in. You can certainly make groups and arrange your own adventures with friends to these off the beaten path places, but on a regular average night of play that can be really hard/impossible to do...and you find yourself LFG in a generic PUG friendly zone.

Its a really good idea to move the ZEMs around..."but it isn't strictly classic" is the only argument that seems to come up against it.

[Shinko]

RANDOM ZEMS

[Snortles Chortles]

How about leveling in a zone you enjoy... with or without ZEM?! :eek:

[Bigdaddy48]

Originally Posted by Old_PVP View Post
How about leveling in a zone you enjoy... with or without ZEM?!

I would love that but no one wants to leave the ZEM hot zones. can't do a casual pug anywhere else. tough to form a full group that can go a few hours anywhere else, even with friends. getting reps is impossible especially if you head in deep somewhere.

[cd288]

People will always chase ZEM to a certain extent. My hope though is that when class penalties fall away on Green that people might be a little bit more willing to hit up other zones in a group. Class penalties really can make a big dent on your exp so I think it’s part of the reason people seem even more rigidly wedded to ZEM on Green.

[BlackBellamy]

If they launch another server I don't think I'll be playing on it. Not after the 60 second spawn times, after Teal instancing, after the ZEM changes, and all the other non-classic stuff that happened since launch. It seems to me that his server is massaged to cater to a specific population and I'm not in that group.

[Shinko]

Random zems per week

[azxten]

If they launch another server I don't think I'll be playing on it. Not after the 60 second spawn times, after Teal instancing, after the ZEM changes, and all the other non-classic stuff that happened since launch. It seems to me that his server is massaged to cater to a specific population and I'm not in that group.

Yep. Green launch was retarded and not classic. We were so close to classic and within minutes or hours it was ruined by people crying that things were too classic. Not only that but the up front plan to merge into blue has made it even worse. It is kind of inexcusable.

I think that group is oddly enough no lifers who play all day but are also really shitty at games and especially hate being friendly or social with other players. Grind like a Chinese gold farm in your solo MMO where you are super powerful, like for real, super powerful. Everyone wants to be you.

Boring.

[Jimjam]

Yep. Green launch was retarded and not classic. We were so close to classic and within minutes or hours it was ruined by people crying that things were too classic. Not only that but the up front plan to merge into blue has made it even worse. It is kind of inexcusable.

I think that group is oddly enough no lifers who play all day but are also really shitty at games and especially hate being friendly or social with other players. Grind like a Chinese gold farm in your solo MMO where you are super powerful, like for real, super powerful. Everyone wants to be you.

Boring.

We need the classic Ancient Crocodile style respawn but on instant timer system that newbie zones had on live. (I.e you need to kill all 3 linked mobs before any of those mobs will respawn, but once they do kill the three they will all respawn instantly).

The 60 second respawn with no linking just made all the newbie mobs scarce camps, which was very unclassic.

[Fleelord]

Nerf Perma, Hole, and CT slightly
Boost places like Sol B, City of Mist, Mistmoore, Droga, Nurga, Karnors, Seb, CoM, etc.

While I am in support of things being classic, I don't recall every single level 50-60 being in 2 zones (Hole or Perma Pits). We need exp diversification, badly. For the community.

Something that could work better than a major revamp, would be a weekly or monthly "Hot Zone" that rotates.

Bump a random dungeon for each level range , 30-40, 40-50, 50-60 for the week, and encourage some new player interaction.

The server meta and "cliquey-ness" of the server is broken, and something's gotta give.

[Fleelord]

Also, for the love of god, PLEASE un-nerf Lower Guk exp, WTF?
Lower Guk should be at least 125 ZEM to accomodate for difficulty and encourage actual groups.

Lower Guk on Live was constantly full of full groups, exping at each of the camps. Nobody there anymore except lone neckbeards with french fries suck in their neck rolls fattening their bags. This is an ISSUE!

[ghost wolves]

Random ZEMs completely defeats the purpose of ZEMs in the first place, which is to reward hunting in difficult zones or to lower population of others.

Creating uniform ZEMs across the board does nothing. It just means LOOT becomes the draw again which means everyone overcrowds zones like Guk, etc.

Having everyone in the Hole isn't classic but so what? Let people play the way they want to play and most people want to level faster. The zone diversity of Classic is NEVER coming back because we have wikis now that tell everyone what to do. If you want to go to other zones, hit up your guildmates and have at it. That's what a guild is for, no? PUGs aren't the only way to group.

[Arvan]

Lots of karens on the boards these days

[Xer0]

Lots of karens on the boards these days

Join Date: Apr 2019

who are you?

[Xer0]

Random ZEMs completely defeats the purpose of ZEMs in the first place, which is to reward hunting in difficult zones or to lower population of others.

Creating uniform ZEMs across the board does nothing. It just means LOOT becomes the draw again which means everyone overcrowds zones like Guk, etc.

Having everyone in the Hole isn't classic but so what? Let people play the way they want to play and most people want to level faster. The zone diversity of Classic is NEVER coming back because we have wikis now that tell everyone what to do. If you want to go to other zones, hit up your guildmates and have at it. That's what a guild is for, no? PUGs aren't the only way to group.


hm i don't think much of what you say holds water. You're saying to let people play what they want to play, but the meta you're suggesting we preserve pigeon holes most people into following pretty linear paths. Nothing about changing the meta surrounding ZEMs would force people to play any way they don't want to play-- however as it stands, we have just that.

And saying "Oh well just join a guild and group that way!" is a copout of a response and anyone who has spent any significant amoutn of time in the game knows this. Same with "just make your own group!". While I'm not saying these can't work, I AM stating that they're not very reliable unless you are a tank, healer, or porter. More often than not you're going to find the melee dps/tanks sitting LFG at the ZL of the ZEM Hotspots are going to be more inclined to sit and wait for their turn in line rather than travel to the nearest hub, try to find a port, then travel to the stranger sending them a tell.

If the ZEM's weren't' concrete, the wiki wouldn't be directing people to the same zones, and you probably would see more diversity, contrary to what you've suggested.

Furthermore, I don't think the ZEM is explicitly doled out based on zone difficulty. Just look at the list of Kunark ZEM's and tell me that's true. You're telling me The Overthere is deemed more difficult than Nurga/Droga?

[Arvan]

Join Date: Apr 2019

who are you?

Been here awhile this forum account is pretty new though

If you didnt know you can make as many as you like

[Xer0]

Been here awhile this forum account is pretty new though

If you didnt know you can make as many as you like

this speaks volumes about you :)

[ghost wolves]

hm i don't think much of what you say holds water. You're saying to let people play what they want to play, but the meta you're suggesting we preserve pigeon holes most people into following pretty linear paths. Nothing about changing the meta surrounding ZEMs would force people to play any way they don't want to play-- however as it stands, we have just that.

And saying "Oh well just join a guild and group that way!" is a copout of a response and anyone who has spent any significant amoutn of time in the game knows this. Same with "just make your own group!". While I'm not saying these can't work, I AM stating that they're not very reliable unless you are a tank, healer, or porter. More often than not you're going to find the melee dps/tanks sitting LFG at the ZL of the ZEM Hotspots are going to be more inclined to sit and wait for their turn in line rather than travel to the nearest hub, try to find a port, then travel to the stranger sending them a tell.

If the ZEM's weren't' concrete, the wiki wouldn't be directing people to the same zones, and you probably would see more diversity, contrary to what you've suggested.

Furthermore, I don't think the ZEM is explicitly doled out based on zone difficulty. Just look at the list of Kunark ZEM's and tell me that's true. You're telling me The Overthere is deemed more difficult than Nurga/Droga?

For sure they aren't all based on difficulty and a good amount of them are just because the zones had low population. I just really don't see the difference. Before everyone was crammed into Guk and Seb and people complained. Now it's The Hole. We don't have any new zones coming. At least what we have now is a change from the last 20 years.

I suppose if you are a group dependent class I could see it as pidgeonholed. You need groups to do anything and all the groups are in one place. But that's how it always was. I'm not a fan of Guk but that's where you had to go if you wanted a group fast. You can throw me examples of "back in the day you could go to ___ and ___ and ___ and find groups" and I would argue it's the same today. Just have to take initiative.

I really don't think what I said was a cop-out considering how social the game is designed. If I don't have friends that will group up with me, that's not the game's fault. If I have to rely on PUGs to do anything, that's not the game's fault. A highway is always gonna be there, ZEM or no ZEM, there have always been overpopulated zones and underutilized ones on Live. The difference is Live had a much larger player base, so finding a PUG in Lake Rathe was a thing and now it's not.

I still feel the game has plenty of different ways to tackle it. There are solo guides, there's the bard diet, there's money camps, there's exp highway, etc. I've seen people put together groups for zones by going to tunnel and OOCing, then getting someone to port them there. It's going to take effort, but people DO play this game to have fun and relive the memories, so it's not as hard as you think if you name an exciting zone they haven't seen in a while. However if someone wants to rush to 60 and max ZEM because their playtime is limited, more power to them.

I just really don't see removing ZEMs or randomizing ZEMs as doing anything but shifting everyone from Zones ABC to Zones XYZ as soon as the consensus is out on what the new optimal path is. And that will happen, because it always happens.

[cd288]

hm i don't think much of what you say holds water. You're saying to let people play what they want to play, but the meta you're suggesting we preserve pigeon holes most people into following pretty linear paths. Nothing about changing the meta surrounding ZEMs would force people to play any way they don't want to play-- however as it stands, we have just that.

And saying "Oh well just join a guild and group that way!" is a copout of a response and anyone who has spent any significant amoutn of time in the game knows this. Same with "just make your own group!". While I'm not saying these can't work, I AM stating that they're not very reliable unless you are a tank, healer, or porter. More often than not you're going to find the melee dps/tanks sitting LFG at the ZL of the ZEM Hotspots are going to be more inclined to sit and wait for their turn in line rather than travel to the nearest hub, try to find a port, then travel to the stranger sending them a tell.

If the ZEM's weren't' concrete, the wiki wouldn't be directing people to the same zones, and you probably would see more diversity, contrary to what you've suggested.

Furthermore, I don't think the ZEM is explicitly doled out based on zone difficulty. Just look at the list of Kunark ZEM's and tell me that's true. You're telling me The Overthere is deemed more difficult than Nurga/Droga?

If it wasn’t for ZEM then everyone would go to the zones with the best loot like LGuk. It’s either loot or fast exp that is the driver. When you have ZEMs people chase the fast exp. get rid of those and people would go after the loot (which is what happened on classic pre-ZEM once people started figuring out where the best loot was).

[Un4Scene]

If it wasn’t for ZEM then everyone would go to the zones with the best loot like LGuk. It’s either loot or fast exp that is the driver. When you have ZEMs people chase the fast exp. get rid of those and people would go after the loot (which is what happened on classic pre-ZEM once people started figuring out where the best loot was).


Yes! This is exactly why I said that eliminating the XP highway might do something to fix the broken economy on Green. More people XP'ing in zones with desirable loot would be a very good thing for the server! The ZEM's don't need to be removed or equalized, they just need to be toned down. Right now, the most beneficial path (due to the extreme ZEM's) is to get 60 first, then farm gear to sell, then use those profits to buy the high-end gear you actually want. If the ZEM's were less extreme, then more people would consider XP'ing in the zones where they could actually fight for the gear that's appropriate for their level.

For a (non-precise) example, with the current ZEM's:
The Hole: lv 50-55 is about 75 hours (with mostly crap loot that people can't even sell anymore, because the market is so flooded with it). Add about 50 hours farming money to buy high-end gear = 125 hours of play
Sebilis: lv 50-55 is about 300 hours (due to difficulty in finding groups). No farming necessary because Seb has very useful loot = 300 hours
125 hours vs 300 hours = The Problem.

Adjust the ZEM's to equalize that a bit, and people will feel like they have a reasonable choice again. If it was something like 200 vs 250, then people could make a decision like "Do I want to PL to 60 and farm later, or do I want to level slower and reduce the farming?" As it stands now, that's not really an option... nobody wants to feel like they've wasted that much play time.

[Tethler]

125 hours vs 300 hours = The Problem.

Adjust the ZEM's to equalize that a bit, and people will feel like they have a reasonable choice again. If it was something like 200 vs 250, then people could make a decision like "Do I want to PL to 60 and farm later, or do I want to level slower and reduce the farming?" As it stands now, that's not really an option... nobody wants to feel like they've wasted that much play time.

I think this is really what it comes down to. I don't know the actual grind hours required, but the perception of a large gap between the hole/perma pits and everything else is certainly a factor for many.

[Toxigen]

Just make Hole, Seb, Velk, HS, Chardok, and KC all within range.

115, 120, 125, 130, 135, 140 - assign each one a unique zem and rotate it randomly every two weeks.

Done.

[BurtMacklinFBI]

i like any idea but what we have now with a single zone, the hole, to level in for 50+. PLEASE HONOR BRAD AND LET US LEAVE THIS ZONE

[Snortles Chortles]

i bet they did but everyone didn't notice
(LOL)

[BurtMacklinFBI]

i bet they did but everyone didn't notice
(LOL)

[BurtMacklinFBI]

another month with nowhere but the hole to level.

[hannahgrams]

y'all been to dalnir? that place is cool

[cd288]

another month with nowhere but the hole to level.

Shedding a tear for you getting to play classic EQ for free because some guys decided to spend thousands of hours to emulate it

Rough life man. Sad about your Hole concerns.

[BurtMacklinFBI]

Shedding a tear for you getting to play classic EQ for free because some guys decided to spend thousands of hours to emulate it

Rough life man. Sad about your Hole concerns.

Thank you. It's been tough but I'm working through it. I appreciate your support in these trying times.

[cd288]

Thank you. It's been tough but I'm working through it. I appreciate your support in these trying times.

Thoughts and prayers

[Jibartik]

i dont like zem.

when i get online im not like "what zone do I love has crap exp and nobody in it and what zone do I not love have huge crowds and an exp bonus?"