If only DKP were tradable.

[magnetaress]

In a DKP exchange.

[Tunabros]

no

[magnetaress]

Dude.

Bro.

If u could cash out ur dkp from one guild and into another.

Think abootit.

[Danth]

I've said before that I think the raid players need to unionize. They shouldn't work for company scrip that becomes worthless as soon as they leave or get fired.

[Nexii]

I've said before that I think the raid players need to unionize. They shouldn't work for company scrip that becomes worthless as soon as they leave or get fired.

Or you can refuse. I would have joined Freedom if they offered me 500-1500 like everyone else got. It was an insult to be offered zero when it's all the same leadership as Aftermath.

[Danth]

Don't look at me, I don't join guilds that use currency-based loot rules. Not part of the problem here! High-end pixels don't have that kind of draw to me. The rank-and-file in such guilds appear to get a bad deal from my vantage point, effectively turning their game time into a simulation of 1870's corporate practice complete with the high hours, no protections, and company scrip. Perhaps they need a New Deal.

[Bardp1999]

Every top guild on P99 has been exactly the same for the last 10 years. Guild A rises to power, Guild A makes insane 'raider' requirements that allow loot only to the neckbeards, the warmbodies eventually get to 'raider' status after months, Guild A starts awarding insane amounts of DKP for tracking (to the neckbeards who are 'screen sharing'), warmbodies get some loot but are largly at the neckbeards mercy, warmbodies start to aquire enough DKP to be a threat to neckbeards alt #3 or #4, Guild A implodes and the same neckbeards create Guild B under alts and/or rotated leadership and a wiped DKP system.

The name of the game is moving the goal post enoughg that only no life retards get raid loot, but there is enough incentive to keep the warmbodies coming so that the numbers are there.

[Littul Jonn]

Individuals commit the sunk cost fallacy when they continue a behavior or endeavor as a result of previously invested resources (time, money or effort) (Arkes & Blumer, 1985). This fallacy, which is related to loss aversion and status quo bias, can also be viewed as bias resulting from an ongoing commitment.

[Swish]

The biggest mistake is saving for those really rare drops.

[Arvan]

Or you can refuse. I would have joined Freedom if they offered me 500-1500 like everyone else got. It was an insult to be offered zero when it's all the same leadership as Aftermath.

What? I thought they claimed they were a completely fresh guild thats completely new and in no way the same old guild but renamed?

Oh my i feel like everyone’s been lied to

[Swish]

What? I thought they claimed they were a completely fresh guild thats completely new and in no way the same old guild but renamed?

Oh my i feel like everyone’s been lied to

Who has access to the guild bank? Remember this when a guild folds.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Can I short riot DKP?

[Loke]

Who has access to the guild bank? Remember this when a guild folds.

The AM guild bank followed the majority of AM players, first to AG, then guild/rng/ghost, and now freedom. Say what you will about Detoxx, but out of all the raid guilds I've been in (which is most of them), he might be the only leader who didn't disappear with at least some of the guild bank.

Also, Nexii, don't pretend you didn't come back due to being "insulted" by not getting free dkp when you weren't playing. Most people who started with DKP got it because we had a transfer formula. You didn't come back because you thought Riot was the best chance for loot and you "didn't want to compete with Jestuh for the Vulak ring."

That's fine, but at least own the fact your chance for loot was the deciding factor, not some imagined slight.

[Nexii]

The AM guild bank followed the majority of AM players, first to AG, then guild/rng/ghost, and now freedom. Say what you will about Detoxx, but out of all the raid guilds I've been in (which is most of them), he might be the only leader who didn't disappear with at least some of the guild bank.

Also, Nexii, don't pretend you didn't come back due to being "insulted" by not getting free dkp when you weren't playing. Most people who started with DKP got it because we had a transfer formula. You didn't come back because you thought Riot was the best chance for loot and you "didn't want to compete with Jestuh for the Vulak ring."

That's fine, but at least own the fact your chance for loot was the deciding factor, not some imagined slight.

I didn't come back for that reason. I came back to play again and considered my options. While still tagged AM I asked around and was told zero. So yea, it was a slight. The principle of it really put me off Freedom given 90% of the leadership is the same.

People could go inactive for a year in AM and keep all their DKP - and much longer in some cases. So why was it AM DKP was worth zero but those that joined AG>Renamed Guild>Ghost etc for a couple of months got generous amounts?

[Nexii]

What? I thought they claimed they were a completely fresh guild thats completely new and in no way the same old guild but renamed?

Oh my i feel like everyone’s been lied to

A quick trip to http://dkp.freedom.guild99.org/will show you the DKP transfer adjustments

[Pint]

I didn't come back for that reason. I came back to play again and considered my options. While still tagged AM I asked around and was told zero. So yea, it was a slight. The principle of it really put me off Freedom given 90% of the leadership is the same.

People could go inactive for a year in AM and keep all their DKP - and much longer in some cases. So why was it AM DKP was worth zero but those that joined AG>Renamed Guild>Ghost etc for a couple of months got generous amounts?

Am I missing something here or did you just say that you didn't come back for loot then detail out why you chose the easier path for loot lol

[Nexii]

Am I missing something here or did you just say that you didn't come back for loot then detail out why you chose the easier path for loot lol

I'm saying I wasn't offered a reason why I was zeroed out while others got generous transfers. And it was various Freedom players who have brought it up to me, saying they'd do something only to go back on promises. Doesn't instill much trust in how things are run.

[Loke]

I didn't come back for that reason. I came back to play again and considered my options. While still tagged AM I asked around and was told zero. So yea, it was a slight. The principle of it really put me off Freedom given 90% of the leadership is the same.

People could go inactive for a year in AM and keep all their DKP - and much longer in some cases. So why was it AM DKP was worth zero but those that joined AG>Renamed Guild>Ghost etc for a couple of months got generous amounts?

You know what, I’m bored so I’ll bite…

First, lets examine you’re initial claim:

Or you can refuse. I would have joined Freedom if they offered me 500-1500 like everyone else got. It was an insult to be offered zero when it's all the same leadership as Aftermath.

First, I don’t believe your claim you were offered 0 DKP, because basically everyone was given 150. Members who stuck with us but had less than 150 DKP after the adjustment were started at 150, and as far as I’m aware, every returning AM member until just recently was also started at 150. I’m not sure who you talked to, but you 100% could have gotten 150 DKP if you had made any sort of legitimate attempt (confirmed by multiple officers when I asked last night).

Next, you claim everyone got 500-1500. Lets take a look at what some people actually got...

Detoxx - 496
Furoar - 758
Jestuh - 1364
Enigmo - 300
Cheeana -193
Tailgating - 357
Me - 168

For reference, Jestuh was the highest adjustment at 1364, so literally no one got 1500. Not even Detoxx and Furoar, the two central figures in the guild got that much combined. Also, with the exception of myself, the thing all those people share in common is that they are people either primarily responsible for forming Freedom, or simply put in an absurd amount of work to keep it running smoothly.

Lets frame the 500-1500 DKP another way, using items. The last Ring 10 awarded in Freedom went for exactly 500 DKP, where as the most expensive item in the history of the guild is a Platinum Tear which went for 1450. Rounding out the top 5 most expensive items are an Abashi’s for 1123, a Jaelen’s for 1089, a Mrylokar’s for 1059, another Plat Tear for 1000, and just for good measure the 6th is a Ruby Tear for 950. Other items that went for exactly 500 DKP include a Dain Head, Shawl of Protection, and AoW Pants.

So putting this all together... you, someone who did exactly nothing to get the guild where it is today are under the impression at a minimum you should have been offered more DKP than the guild leader, and an amount ranging between the value of a Ring 10 up to greater than the most expensive items ever awarded in the guild, and find it offensive that you were not. Either you’re delusional and have a crazy inflated sense of your value to a guild or you’re full of shit and trying to justify what as of late looks to have been a poor decision.

Just to be clear, I’m not typing this all out because I begrudge your decision to join Riot, I don’t really care. What does annoy me is you portraying yourself as the victim of some injustice perpetrated upon you by your former unappreciative guild members. Everyone I know was stoked to hear you were back, and subsequently dismayed to hear you decided to join Riot. I suppose I don’t know why you made that decision, but I know it wasn’t because you were treated differently than any other former AM member who decided to return. I suspect it is because you thought Riot was your best chance for pixels, and now you’ve created this fiction where that not working out isn’t your fault.

[spikeviking]

pixel sickness is real.

[Loke]

pixel sickness is real.

Nah. With it being winter and the rona still killing folks, there are worse ways to kill time than shit posting about drama on an elf sim forum.

[Nexii]

Yea Jestuh got an insane amount and no one else really mattered with where I'm at. I was basing what would be fair off his DKP. And given he had less than myself at AM's dissolution, 0 wasn't a fair offer and gave me a bad gut feeling. Since then other amounts were thrown like 150 which seemed more like a not serious token offer.

Much of the Aftermath leadership wasn't appreciative of me even during my time in the guild. So yes, that sentiment does play in. A time when the officers all decided to loot council a roll I'd already won to one of Detoxx's bots for favor comes to mind. Since that, I didn't feel respected but I continued on because there was no other option to continue playing the game.

And sadly that's where this server is headed for the common raider. In my time in AM Detoxx willfully ignored server rules only once, a time he told Ralug to engage Eashan while the current target was at 2%. Nowadays it's just a common occurence. Vulak blurs, intentional trains on another guild's bots, Tunare delink exploits, unwillingess to concede even the most blatent infractions. All for some sense of revenge I guess. I'd sooner go Naethyn's route and not play at all than play under the Sedyt 2.0 that Detoxx has found to lead his alliance.

[Loke]

So a combination of delusion and revisionist history.. nice. Have fun with your new guild.

[Nexii]

FWIW Riot isn't great either, but for different reasons.

[magnetaress]

So a combination of delusion and revisionist history.. nice. Have fun with your new guild.

My intention wasn't to troll Nexii.

For what it's worth. It sounds like AMs dkp wasn't worth much and neither is Freedoms.

Now ppl will invest in another guild.

[Toryas]

Nah. With it being winter and the rona still killing folks, there are worse ways to kill time than shit posting about drama on an elf sim forum.

You could write the reee petitions, then they may actually read like an adult wrote them instead of an 8 year old.

[Fammaden]

FWIW Riot isn't great either, but for different reasons.

What reasons, I'm genuinely curious.

[Aadill]

There always seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding when people have negative perceptions of another entity and it's clear to me that there are some fundamental misunderstandings in regards to Freedom in this thread.

I'll just stick to the DKP one for now:

As someone who assisted in the math for the DKP transfers, I can attest to the fact that we squished the top end of the DKP numbers and raised the tail for everyone that was going to start with little to nothing at a reasonable amount so no one was left empty-handed. Using the data we had available that spanned from AM through AG, we predicted values for what made sense for the start of the new system. 150 got you a third to a half of a Ring 10, a BIS Vindi BP, a significant number of TOV items, and was more than a reasonable amount of DKP that if you did any amount of work in the guild you could easily jet up the ranks within a month or two. We regularly inspect our DKP structure to ensure we aren't suffering from major inflation, which thus far has been pretty well managed. Is it perfect? no, but it is a system that within just a few months we see a pretty good distribution of DKP earnt/spent that is normalized through the membership.

[Pint]

I founded AM and I didn't get 150dkp, where do I channel my feels

[Nexii]

There always seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding when people have negative perceptions of another entity and it's clear to me that there are some fundamental misunderstandings in regards to Freedom in this thread.

I'll just stick to the DKP one for now:

As someone who assisted in the math for the DKP transfers, I can attest to the fact that we squished the top end of the DKP numbers and raised the tail for everyone that was going to start with little to nothing at a reasonable amount so no one was left empty-handed. Using the data we had available that spanned from AM through AG, we predicted values for what made sense for the start of the new system. 150 got you a third to a half of a Ring 10, a BIS Vindi BP, a significant number of TOV items, and was more than a reasonable amount of DKP that if you did any amount of work in the guild you could easily jet up the ranks within a month or two. We regularly inspect our DKP structure to ensure we aren't suffering from major inflation, which thus far has been pretty well managed. Is it perfect? no, but it is a system that within just a few months we see a pretty good distribution of DKP earnt/spent that is normalized through the membership.

Yea that's all fine and no one expects a 100% transfer for those reasons. 100% would mean no new players would enter the guild due to the old school players having insurmountable DKP. However the 0% offer wasn't fair either. From my perspective, Jestuh had that kind of hopelessly insurmountable lead.

[Aadill]

Yea that's all fine and no one expects a 100% transfer for those reasons. 100% would mean no new players would enter the guild due to the old school players having insurmountable DKP. However the 0% offer wasn't fair either. From my perspective, Jestuh had that kind of hopelessly insurmountable lead.

If you were actually getting 0, I can't speak to that. But, if it was 150, it wasn't 0. It's a huge gap between Jestuh's points and 150, sure. But, there are people that started around the 300-400 mark, who have lower raid attendance than Jestuh, and within five months including spending 800-900 DKP are above where Jestuh started. This means that player has just as much ability to spend as Jestuh could at the beginning, which will buy nearly any item in our guild as Loke ponited out. Maybe that's an outlier, but it's not a hopeless venture, especially if you consider yourself an active raider. That's the same thing everyone feels when they join a raid guild and start from the bottom, but our bottom was not 0, meaning you had something to spend. Whether or not you can actually close the gap between Jestuh is a different story, but he's looking for only two or three items in the game and you can be sure that whatever he spends it will not keep him in the lead for very long.

Considering our approach was a combination of equality and equity adjustments I think we did a decent job and I'm sorry you don't feel that way about it.

[karadin]

And sadly that's where this server is headed for the common raider. In my time in AM Detoxx willfully ignored server rules only once, a time he told Ralug to engage Eashan while the current target was at 2%. Nowadays it's just a common occurence. Vulak blurs, intentional trains on another guild's bots, Tunare delink exploits, unwillingess to concede even the most blatent infractions. All for some sense of revenge I guess. I'd sooner go Naethyn's route and not play at all than play under the Sedyt 2.0 that Detoxx has found to lead his alliance.


It's already been pointed out that your claims of being offered 0 DKP don't seem to align with any reality we know of. Do you really think that a fledgling guild wouldn't have done back flips to have you main a cleric for them? You and I have zero history and I've seen your name pop up plenty of times in officer chats when talking about what we would offer if you reached out to us and it was definitely a number greater than 0 DKP.

Additionally, your comments about Tunare and Vulak exploits are really alarming. Is the messaging in your guild so strong that you actually believe this? And I'll bite on your "unwillingness to concede" comment. What haven't we conceded for blatant infractions?

[Nexii]

If no one makes you an offer then the offer is zero

[Fammaden]

So you're saying no one came begging to you un-solicited with an offer, thus the offer was zero?

[karadin]

If no one makes you an offer then the offer is zero

Yikes. I guess you wanted some special treatment that wasn’t afforded to any other soul in the game then. I wasn’t offered anything either by your standards, yet here we are.

[Nexii]

Yes. Apparently a fledgling guild didn't feel like doing any back flips. Was in AM discord while inactive and came back with the AM tag. Like I said, bad communications and decisions were not a surprise. This the same leadership would risk losing a core cleric over a POG breastplate. That kind of attitude is why there's very few cleric mains in Freedom even now.

As for Riot keeping an open transphobe in the guild after being warned. And a general crybaby culture that's nearly insufferable. Though on the scale of things, being chaotic evil is a lot worse than sickeningly lawful righteous/good.

[Naethyn]

This already occurs. When aftermath dkp dropped to zero value they merged into AG, some leadership cashed the check for a ruby tear and bounced. A+

[karadin]

Yes. Apparently a fledgling guild didn't feel like doing any back flips. Was in AM discord while inactive and came back with the AM tag. Like I said, bad communications and decisions were not a surprise. This the same leadership would risk losing a core cleric over a POG breastplate. That kind of attitude is why there's very few cleric mains in Freedom even now.

As for Riot keeping an open transphobe in the guild after being warned. And a general crybaby culture that's nearly insufferable. Though on the scale of things, being chaotic evil is a lot worse than sickeningly lawful righteous/good.

Always the victim I guess. I'm sorry that your experiences didn't meet your standards, but if you earnestly wanted to play EverQuest with your old pals you would have reached out and you would have been given a good offer like everyone else.

As for chaotic evil, label us however you want. We get along, we make shit happen,
and have fun playing the game. From the sounds of things that isn't currently true for you. Anytime you want to throw the victim card away and have an earnest conversation with me feel free to reach out. There's no reason to torch bridges for now though.

[Nexii]

Always the victim I guess. I'm sorry that your experiences didn't meet your standards, but if you earnestly wanted to play EverQuest with your old pals you would have reached out and you would have been given a good offer like everyone else.

As for chaotic evil, label us however you want. We get along, we make shit happen,
and have fun playing the game. From the sounds of things that isn't currently true for you. Anytime you want to throw the victim card away and have an earnest conversation with me feel free to reach out. There's no reason to torch bridges for now though.

Yea well sometimes a bit of an apology goes a long way. And the AM officer core never had someone who was willing to do that. It took months of membership abuse just for Detoxx to get rid of Sedyt. Since then I've been teased with 'yea, we'll make you whole' and then shirking back. From the outside it looks like a lot of the same.

Maybe I just saw the constrast because Rustle was my first raiding experience. These basic PR things were handled by Snackies and Getsome without equivocation

[Cecily]

Rawr🐲🐊 x3😋 nuzzles how are you😉🙂 pounces on you😛 you're😃 so😄 warm🤒😈 o3o😏 notices😯 you have a bulge🍆 o:😯😮 someone's happy😃 ;)😉😜 nuzzles your necky wecky😈😗~ murr~ hehehe😊 rubbies👋🤚 your bulgy🍆 wolgy you're😌 so big😯😮 :oooo rubbies👋🤚 more on your bulgy🍆 wolgy it🚫 doesn't stop🛑 growing ...
*bArkS*

[Nibblewitz]

Sorry your gravy train has ended and sorry you backed the wrong horse.

[Detoxx]

Vulak blurs, intentional trains on another guild's bots, Tunare delink exploits, unwillingess to concede even the most blatent infractions.

1. Vulak blurs: Remember that one time when one of Riots members chain dispelled Zlandicar? You wouldnt have thought they did it but, they did. This same reasoning applies to a blur on Vulak. There was 0 proof that one of your disgruntled members, after losing the like 11th Vulak in a row, didnt just decide to blur it to try and force a concede.

2.What about intentional trains that actually affected an engage such as CT? Or intentional dispelling of raid mobs that are slowed like Zlandi? These seem much worse than someone raging on his own (Arcler can be quite insufferable) and having no intent of doing it to win the mob.

3. Tunare exploits? Which? The kite is free as soon as we engage and, last kill, it actually almost got to us and wiped us. Learn to read Rogeans post before throwing slander.

4. This one is a major yikes. Riot is the kings of lawyering the most blatant infractions and then just saying fuck it, we arent conceding (Koi, Tunare for example)

Sad to see youve drank this much Kool-Aid Nexii but, is what it is.

[Nexii]

Whataboutism. Riot being scummy or bad at times doesn't make FRAG any less so. I don't think highly of Riot for reasons stated elsewhere.

AM was warned by Rogean for the exact same exploit in 2018, dropping a kite in the corner of POG to glitch the Tunare call mechanic. Semantics of how he worded the warning are less relevant. But hey if the exploit is legal now then that's another issue, the rules should be known to all.

[Aadill]

What a weird way of creating misunderstanding when there is none.

[Daloon]

Everybody thinks their opposing guild does more shady shit because we all see it through the eyes of one viewpoint, just like in politics. That's why Fox News viewers will never understand how CNN viewers think the way they do, and vice versa. Trust me, Riot guild chatter is full of this reinforcement, like none other. Every 10 minutes somebody is moaning about Furoar/Detoxx and blaming any inconsistency on them.

The difference between <Riot> and <Freedom> is simple. Riot thinks their shit doesn't stink at all, which is comical to outsiders. Whereas Freedom knows their shit stinks badly, and they embrace it. Which side has more fun?

Play to have fun. I can assure you FRAG is having a lot of FUN right now.

[Nexii]

Everybody thinks their opposing guild does more shady shit because we all see it through the eyes of one viewpoint, just like in politics. That's why Fox News viewers will never understand how CNN viewers think the way they do, and vice versa. Trust me, Riot guild chatter is full of this reinforcement, like none other. Every 10 minutes somebody is moaning about Furoar/Detoxx and blaming any inconsistency on them.

The difference between <Riot> and <Freedom> is simple. Riot thinks their shit doesn't stink at all, which is comical to outsiders. Whereas Freedom knows their shit stinks badly, and they embrace it. Which side has more fun?

Play to have fun. I can assure you FRAG is having a lot of FUN right now.

Overly righteous or completely dishonorable without a care. Not many good choices right now.

[Nibblewitz]

No way! Is there really just two options?

[Drakborn]

Pretty sure there are nine options, right? Lawful/Chaotic/Neutral/Good/Evil...

[Aadill]

Pretty sure there are nine options, right? Lawful/Chaotic/Neutral/Good/Evil...

To certain people, everything is a dichotomy.

[Fammaden]

AG: Lawful Neutral

Freedom: Chaotic Evil

Riot: Lawful Evil

Kittens: Lawful Evil

Dawn Believers: Chaotic Good

TSS: Chaotic Neutral

Lighthouse: Neutral Good

Castle: Lawful Good

Aegis: True Neutral

Dial a Port: Neutral Evil

[strongNpretty]

AG: Lawful Neutral

Freedom: Chaotic Evil

Riot: Lawful Evil

Kittens: Lawful Evil

Dawn Believers: Chaotic Good

TSS: Chaotic Neutral

Lighthouse: Neutral Good

Castle: Lawful Good

Aegis: True Neutral

Dial a Port: Neutral Evil

Strong and Pretty: Yes

[hobart]

I founded AM and I didn't get 150dkp, where do I channel my feels

If that name was your idea, you owe so many people apologies.

[Detoxx]

Whataboutism. Riot being scummy or bad at times doesn't make FRAG any less so. I don't think highly of Riot for reasons stated elsewhere.

AM was warned by Rogean for the exact same exploit in 2018, dropping a kite in the corner of POG to glitch the Tunare call mechanic. Semantics of how he worded the warning are less relevant. But hey if the exploit is legal now then that's another issue, the rules should be known to all.

Wrong again. Read the post. In AM we pumped a ton of aggro into Tunare to the point where the tank would never be able to catch up therefore keeping the kite on the bard. That was against the rules as exampled when he says:

Kiting mobs while killing tunare is unintended as the script is suppose to pull all mobs to the highest on Tunare's hate list. There's currently an aspect of this that is not functioning correctly. Until the fix is patched, please do not attempt to kite zone trash while engaging Tunare.

Guilds that have done this up until this point will not be disciplined.

We do not kite while its engaged.

[Croco]

We do not kite while its engaged.

This is semantics and you know it. You're circumventing the mechanic. This explanation is the equivalent of a child sticking their finger in their siblings face while shouting at them "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!!!". It violates the spirit of the mechanic/engage.

[Nexii]

AM was warned after a kill where the kite was dropped in a corner, not the one where Kelzaraz had more aggro and dropped the kite 2 minutes into Tunare fight. Come on Detoxx I was present for both...

Anyways if you got a friendly GM that's nice and all. Winning is pretty hollow when you don't have to follow the rules others do. Of course, it's all not really even about winning as I learned later. I would have steered clear of both guilds

[glerkywop]

We do not kite while its engaged.
Surely this begs the question: what do you consider "engaged?" Is an agroed, rooted mob not engaged in your opinion?

[karadin]

AM was warned after a kill where the kite was dropped in a corner, not the one where Kelzaraz had more aggro and dropped the kite 2 minutes into Tunare fight. Come on Detoxx I was present for both...

Anyways if you got a friendly GM that's nice and all. Winning is pretty hollow when you don't have to follow the rules others do. Of course, it's all not really even about winning as I learned later. I would have steered clear of both guilds

The “winning” part of Tunare happens with Takish, and we saw what happened there after FRAG won the FTE and had him in camp.

[Phaezed-Reality]

like 1000 kingdum dkps is worth like 0 seal teams dkp. none of their dkp is accured from killing dragons.

[karadin]

Surely this begs the question: what do you consider "engaged?" Is an agroed, rooted mob not engaged in your opinion?

By that logic we would need to consider orbing her without a tank on her to be a stall.

[Nexii]

The “winning” part of Tunare happens with Takish, and we saw what happened there after FRAG won the FTE and had him in camp.

Yea I'm sure Dica intentionally desynced. As Naethyn put it FRAG would rather see the world burn. Literally driving away players like myself who didn't enjoy Riot's toxic culture.

It's a sad state of affairs that a bunch of mid 30 year olds can't compete with sportsmanship. That GMs need to police it all to make it enjoyable to play.

Like I said though its not about competing it's about revenge. Revenge over Riot being too righteous to allow ex-AM to apply. Which I didn't agree with either. Not allowing the guild to vote on who got in happened in AM too, so there is some irony there.

[karadin]

Yea I'm sure Dica intentionally desynced. As Naethyn put it FRAG would rather see the world burn. Literally driving away players like myself who didn't enjoy Riot's toxic culture.

It's a sad state of affairs that a bunch of mid 30 year olds can't compete with sportsmanship. That GMs need to police it all to make it enjoyable to play.

Like I said though its not about competing it's about revenge. Revenge over Riot being too righteous to allow ex-AM to apply. Which I didn't agree with either. Not allowing the guild to vote on who got in happened in AM too, so there is some irony there.

Yeah I didn't mean to imply it was intentional. Riot made it right thankfully but then posted a really strange petition after that.

I don't understand your let it burn comment. What is it that we're doing that gives you this impression?

[Nexii]

Yeah I didn't mean to imply it was intentional. Riot made it right thankfully but then posted a really strange petition after that.

I don't understand your let it burn comment. What is it that we're doing that gives you this impression?

Just look at the attitude and style of speech of your leadership. It's awful. I like how Detoxx gets bogged down on the one issue of unfair play and ignores all the other more important criticisms I raised. The issues on the server and in FRAG go way deeper.

[glerkywop]

Yeah I didn't mean to imply it was intentional. Riot made it right thankfully but then posted a really strange petition after that.

I don't understand your let it burn comment. What is it that we're doing that gives you this impression?
What was strange about the Riot petition?

AG/F failed to tag Guardian Takish for 26 seconds, meaning that Takish wasn't brought into camp until 1:07, nearly 50 seconds after he should have been in camp. What is this new precedent that only time moving away from camp counts toward a kite's timer? Do we just ignore the other half of that equation? Time not in camp is time not in camp.

In the AG/F response to the "strange" Riot petition, they granted themselves an four seconds of leeway by pretending that their raid was not on top of the hill and that the kite timer only counted as Guardian Takish ran past the zone-in rings--not as he turned left away from the raid. Even granting yourselves these four seconds, you're looking at 45 seconds that Takish should have been in your camp and wasn't.

If AG/F want to apply their new "a kite is only time moving away from camp" precedent AND grant themselves an extra four seconds, you're still looking at 22 seconds which is still greater than the 18-second "DA" precedent that has been sacrosanct on this server for years. AG/F are claiming "no harm, no foul" here by applying their other new precedent by saying, "well, actually, if you get a good server tick, a DA can be 23 seconds!"

Also, as far as the Dica train is concerned, Dica agros a horse at 0:41--Dica did not zone into the Plane of Growth until after Guardian Takish had been FTEd, meaning that AG/F either failed to properly start a kite (it seems AG/F bards only moved toward Guardian Takish and no one was working on a zone-in kite to allow the raid to safely zone in--the exact same reason that a handful of horses head straight to your camp after Dica dies because they had agro from zoning in into horses) or a kite was dropped near zone-in because AG/F had a presence in the zone for at least 1:30 by the time that horse agros Dica.

And while it's true that Dica did agro a horse upon zoning in because someone either failed to properly start a kite or dropped a kite, that singular horse was pulled off of Dica by an AG/F bard (seen at the 1:01 mark in Dica's fraps, "a rolling plains steed begins to chant"), brought into a kite, and was subsequently dropped without warning (the bard with that kite either died or capped out).

Have we reached the dystopian point of p99 where we just stop applying logic to things and say whatever feels good?

[Detoxx]

What was strange about the Riot petition?

AG/F failed to tag Guardian Takish for 26 seconds, meaning that Takish wasn't brought into camp until 1:07, nearly 50 seconds after he should have been in camp. What is this new precedent that only time moving away from camp counts toward a kite's timer? Do we just ignore the other half of that equation? Time not in camp is time not in camp.

In the AG/F response to the "strange" Riot petition, they granted themselves an four seconds of leeway by pretending that their raid was not on top of the hill and that the kite timer only counted as Guardian Takish ran past the zone-in rings--not as he turned left away from the raid. Even granting yourselves these four seconds, you're looking at 45 seconds that Takish should have been in your camp and wasn't.

If AG/F want to apply their new "a kite is only time moving away from camp" precedent AND grant themselves an extra four seconds, you're still looking at 22 seconds which is still greater than the 18-second "DA" precedent that has been sacrosanct on this server for years. AG/F are claiming "no harm, no foul" here by applying their other new precedent by saying, "well, actually, if you get a good server tick, a DA can be 23 seconds!"

Also, as far as the Dica train is concerned, Dica agros a horse at 0:41--Dica did not zone into the Plane of Growth until after Guardian Takish had been FTEd, meaning that AG/F either failed to properly start a kite (it seems AG/F bards only moved toward Guardian Takish and no one was working on a zone-in kite to allow the raid to safely zone in--the exact same reason that a handful of horses head straight to your camp after Dica dies because they had agro from zoning in into horses) or a kite was dropped near zone-in because AG/F had a presence in the zone for at least 1:30 by the time that horse agros Dica.

And while it's true that Dica did agro a horse upon zoning in because someone either failed to properly start a kite or dropped a kite, that singular horse was pulled off of Dica by an AG/F bard (seen at the 1:01 mark in Dica's fraps, "a rolling plains steed begins to chant"), brought into a kite, and was subsequently dropped without warning (the bard with that kite either died or capped out).

Have we reached the dystopian point of p99 where we just stop applying logic to things and say whatever feels good?

Rofl. Here, let me show you how brainwashed you are:

[Detoxx]

Awful lot of words for an awful lot of wrong there pal.

2 paragraphs of how a stall is not only going away from camp
1 paragraph defending Dica for training after conceding 2 Tunares for Dica training.

Ouch

[glerkywop]

Are you a goldfish? What you say looks good when taken out of context, but let's add some context, shall we?

This is a quote lifted from the first long-form petitionquest injunction, submitted by AG/Freedom.

While Riot may argue that stalling is only the time that the mob is moving away from their raid’s camp and not the time it takes for the mob to return to its position before it was displaced, we believe that to be a self-evident misinterpretation. If the mob’s trajectory is going to deliver the mob into the camp at 00:20, but on its route it is intercepted and pulled in the opposite direction for 10 seconds, the mob will not arrive into camp at 00:30. The mob will have to double back and arrive at 00:40. Those actions for 10 seconds cause a stall of 20 seconds, and depending on which actions or paths a player takes, the mobs can be effectively stalled for much longer than the time it was simply “brought away.”
Are you now saying you now disagree with your alliance's own position because it benefits you in this case?

In the petition you're likely referencing, Riot was defending itself using Monrezz's (a leader of the AG/F alliance, if I'm not mistaken) words when filing their rebuttal (with regards to the duration of a DA):
https://i.imgur.com/QYXX8kq.png

aaaaand once again using Daewens's (a leader of the AG/F alliance, if I'm not mistaken) words when filing their rebuttal (with regards to "what constitutes a stall"):
https://i.imgur.com/8VxwYmr.png

Riot was using AG/F's own words against them.

Sure you'll start to argue that these "precedents" were not set by AG/F, as they predate Freedom's formation and the AG/F alliance, but they were "set" by leadership of both guilds.

Do you expect precedent to not cut both ways? Does precedent only matter when it supports you?

Please show me where in my post I "defended" Dica's train. I simply added context to the situation because the troll's "RIOT BULLIES ANNIHILATE AG/F WITH TRAIN!" narrative is, quite frankly, boring.

I was merely highlighting the fact that the situation in Growth was a bit more complicated than your ghouls would like people to believe. Riot took the high road and conceded to avoid the headache of more petitions, a decision that I don't particularly agree with, given that Dica was just a small cog in the machine of what inevitably unfolded.

[Raev]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Detoxx

Is this legit? How is it after 6 years Detoxx isn't BIS? I mean, these stats are arguably closer to poor old Sakuragi (-700 HP after shaman stamina) than Alde (+400 HP, +200 AC, and yes AC matters). Did you go Monk or something?

[Nexii]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Detoxx

Is this legit? How is it after 6 years Detoxx isn't BIS? I mean, these stats are arguably closer to poor old Sakuragi (-700 HP after shaman stamina) than Alde (+400 HP, +200 AC, and yes AC matters). Did you go Monk or something?

Magelo tends to underreport HP and overreport mana. At least for my profile as Cleric

[magnetaress]

Agi helps even out dmg spikes. Ill never understand ppl who all in sta/hp for basically two hits worth.

[denner]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Detoxx

Is this legit? How is it after 6 years Detoxx isn't BIS? I mean, these stats are arguably closer to poor old Sakuragi (-700 HP after shaman stamina) than Alde (+400 HP, +200 AC, and yes AC matters). Did you go Monk or something?

you forget that Detoxx spent most of the last 2 years losing. a lot.

[Vaye]

Fucking YIKES at the effort put into the elf court proceedings happening in here and off forums lolol. :eek:

P99 was a mistake.

[magnetaress]

Fucking YIKES at the effort put into the elf court proceedings happening in here and off forums lolol. :eek:

P99 was a mistake.


I'm not even the master programmer.

I think like 6 posts in total?

https://i.imgur.com/bOpny5h.jpg

[OuterChimp]

Am I the only one who notices most R&F threads, no matter what they are originally about, turn into a Blue Raid Guild bitch session?

[Nexii]

Am I the only one who notices most R&F threads, no matter what they are originally about, turn into a Blue Raid Guild bitch session?

Yea it's because the raid scene has become a cesspool as of late.

*longs for the days of Sirken when toxic leadership would be banned*

[Bardp1999]

I raid because I'm fat and I'm fat because I raid, it's a vicious cycle