CSG guilds FORCED to compete under rules written by neckbeards

[Grumph]

And, not knowing anything different, CSG guilds of course think the rules are stupid and dumb and just plain excessive. And why do we even need these rules?

13938

Oh yeah! There’s something called a ‘stalemate,’ which maybe you’d be stuck in right now except for this rule?

....it’s hard to say for sure.

[Swish]

https://i.imgur.com/0wJJH5L.png

[Tunabros]

hey guys! Remember it's just a game! And remember to have fun!

[branamil]

My favorite part about pretending to be a 4 bit elf from 1988 is reading article XIV paragraph 3 in elfiquette appendix volume 7 so I don't upset an alarmingly diabetic unemployed man who is also pretending to be an elf

[Viscere]

Kittens brought 19 in kael and thought they had a shot at AoW :D

Criot was in GM imposed time out for being server badies

[Arvan]

OP triggered

[Viscere]

https://i.imgur.com/DHCFrd7.png

imagine being that triggered by a guild that you are ready to spend months leveling a toon with a pun as a name

that's some unprecedented level of saltiness lol

wonder which of <criot> RnF clown that is

[greasemonk]

https://i.imgur.com/DHCFrd7.png

imagine being that triggered by a guild that you are ready to spend months leveling a toon with a pun as a name

that's some unprecedented level of saltiness lol

wonder which of <criot> RnF clown that is

I'm sorry, I do not see anything wrong with the picture you just posted. The only thing I see in this picture is Detoxx's lesser known cousin with mild mental issues. Please don't attempt to make fun of disabilities! It makes you look petty.

[Detoxx]

I'm sorry, I do not see anything wrong with the picture you just posted.

100% agree, I think its amazing. You know what they say: imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery!

[greasemonk]

100% agree, I think its amazing. You know what they say: imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery!

I have always liked that saying as well!

I can never remember what they say about mockery though. Able to help me out with that one?

[Viscere]

He just basically owned you, Titanic/Nookleer

[greasemonk]

He just basically owned you, Titanic/Nookleer

You really can't read, can you?

You mother fuckin need Hooked on Phonics.

[Detoxx]

I have always liked that saying as well!

I can never remember what they say about mockery though. Able to help me out with that one?

Something something...rent free.

[greasemonk]

Something something...rent free.

Oh wow. If you can't remember the other quote about rent, how are you going to be able to tell me about the mockery?

You are getting to that age though. Dementia setting in fast!

[Detoxx]

Oh wow. If you can't remember the other quote about rent, how are you going to be able to tell me about the mockery?

You are getting to that age though. Dementia setting in fast!

Sick burn dude, you got me. Lol

[Boptop]

Settle this in the Freeport Arena.

[Toryas]

100% agree, I think its amazing. You know what they say: imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery!

No one says that, it’s either most sincere or sincerest, not most sincerest.

Hope that helps.

[greasemonk]

Sick burn dude, you got me. Lol

13946

[reznor_]

I have always liked that saying as well!

I can never remember what they say about mockery though. Able to help me out with that one?

You mother fucking need Jesus

[indiscriminate_hater]

Dear GMs, I am trying to follow the play nice policy rule that no one asked my input on. I was excluded from those conversations because I apparently "was not present" when the server was created. But here I am, trying to follow a rule that I was not involved in making. Please do not exclude me from those conversations in the future.

[Twochain]

Nobody asked your input because Kittens/DB/Aegis doesn't ever contest the mob.. It's like a double A team in the minors mad that a rule in the big leagues got changed.


Not that i'm flaming, because i'm not. I think Kittens/DB/Aegis SHOULD be going after tov mobs in normal circumstances. I feel like dragons have been in window on weekends for months now. No excuses boys and gals! DB has like 15 level 60 clerics, kittens has some retired former hardcore raiders along with a huge roster, and aegis has some peeps as well. I think ya'll should be trying more.

That being said.... I highly doubt the GM's gives a shit what you guys do in ToV when there is absolutely 0 other people competing against you. As long as your not using some blatant exploit to kill the dragons... it's probably fair game. But, it's good practice to play by the rules, so next week you can compete against all of us! It's fun times. Makes the gear that much sweeter to obtain when you beat someone else for it!

[xdrcfrx]

KWSM regularly contests mobs in ToV, in quake and natural respawn. Not to say we're on the verge of 6-guard vulak engage, but the number of times FRAG has leapfrogged us at fesh to grab dagarn, you'd think you'd stop parroting this line.

[Cassawary]

Makes the gear that much sweeter to obtain when you beat someone else for it!

Interesting psychology

[Ennewi]

Nobody asked your input because Kittens/DB/Aegis doesn't ever contest the mob.. It's like a double A team in the minors mad that a rule in the big leagues got changed.


Not that i'm flaming, because i'm not. I think Kittens/DB/Aegis SHOULD be going after tov mobs in normal circumstances. I feel like dragons have been in window on weekends for months now. No excuses boys and gals! DB has like 15 level 60 clerics, kittens has some retired former hardcore raiders along with a huge roster, and aegis has some peeps as well. I think ya'll should be trying more.

That being said.... I highly doubt the GM's gives a shit what you guys do in ToV when there is absolutely 0 other people competing against you. As long as your not using some blatant exploit to kill the dragons... it's probably fair game. But, it's good practice to play by the rules, so next week you can compete against all of us! It's fun times. Makes the gear that much sweeter to obtain when you beat someone else for it!

https://youtu.be/eH5bDPlswvA

[strongNpretty]

You spelled Hydra Alliance wrong......

[Ennewi]

https://youtu.be/eH5bDPlswvA

https://youtu.be/HQrY1muqaXs

[Twochain]

KWSM regularly contests mobs in ToV, in quake and natural respawn. Not to say we're on the verge of 6-guard vulak engage, but the number of times FRAG has leapfrogged us at fesh to grab dagarn, you'd think you'd stop parroting this line.

I know by my post it looks like i'm talking about all of ToV, i'm talking about Vulak. I know sometimes especially on quakes kittens is in there. And i've seen kittens in there with Riot more recently, but I think that ya'll could compete more regularly with the Hydra alliance.

You don't need to be on a verge of a 6-guard.. there have been plenty of times where both riot and frag have wiped.

Has frag really leapfrogged you at fesh for dagarn that much? lol seems hyper specific.

Also i'm not saying this to better my guild somehow... i'm saying this because I like seeing other guilds and alliances giving it a try.

Hopefully, (Please sirs) we can have a quake this weekend. If so, bring your alliance and compete for Vulak. Regardless if you win or lose, coth you raid up and be ready. Then, the following week, bring your raid again. Compete for Vulak.



Also is there a problem with the rule? Or just the fact that nobody asked your input about it.

Have you ever witnessed 300 people standing on top of vulak spamming shit trying to get an fte while another dragon dies?

[druidbob]

It wasn't so much that anyone present disagreed with the rule itself, rather just confusion about it. I believe aegis was operating based on how the vulak engage went on a previous team up with freedom, and had forgotten about the recent changes. I totally get that the guilds that regularly go after these targets are the ones with the biggest stake in how the raid rules are structured. But I will say from the small guilds, figuring out the current ToV meta is a much bigger task than figuring out the actual fights.

[Nirgon]

Sig

[regandna]

Who posted this original comment? It sounds like this annoying bard I know from Homeland, but maybe not.

[apathe]

I know by my post it looks like i'm talking about all of ToV, i'm talking about Vulak. I know sometimes especially on quakes kittens is in there. And i've seen kittens in there with Riot more recently, but I think that ya'll could compete more regularly with the Hydra alliance.

You don't need to be on a verge of a 6-guard.. there have been plenty of times where both riot and frag have wiped.

Has frag really leapfrogged you at fesh for dagarn that much? lol seems hyper specific.

Also i'm not saying this to better my guild somehow... i'm saying this because I like seeing other guilds and alliances giving it a try.

Hopefully, (Please sirs) we can have a quake this weekend. If so, bring your alliance and compete for Vulak. Regardless if you win or lose, coth you raid up and be ready. Then, the following week, bring your raid again. Compete for Vulak.



Also is there a problem with the rule? Or just the fact that nobody asked your input about it.

Have you ever witnessed 300 people standing on top of vulak spamming shit trying to get an fte while another dragon dies?
It wouldn't be so bad if Dagarn didn't drop the pants every time it happens :(

[Detoxx]

KWSM regularly contests mobs in ToV, in quake and natural respawn. Not to say we're on the verge of 6-guard vulak engage, but the number of times FRAG has leapfrogged us at fesh to grab dagarn, you'd think you'd stop parroting this line.

KWSM is never in ToV unless a mob is conceded, both guilds are suspended or theres a quake all of which are uncontested (yes the quake is uncontested cause other guilds are clearing outside ToV while you kill Aary / Fesh).

[apathe]

KWSM is never in ToV unless a mob is conceded, both guilds are suspended or theres a quake all of which are uncontested (yes the quake is uncontested cause other guilds are clearing outside ToV while you kill Aary / Fesh).
Nah, we also contest TOV on repops if timers are stacked.

[Nirgon]

KWSM is never in ToV unless a mob is conceded, both guilds are suspended or theres a quake all of which are uncontested (yes the quake is uncontested cause other guilds are clearing outside ToV while you kill Aary / Fesh).

You're too good for this shit. I hate to see it.

[Grumph]

Have you ever witnessed 300 people standing on top of vulak spamming shit trying to get an fte while another dragon dies?


Good point. Its a wonder really that any agreement was even come to over this situation.

Considering Gokai is only a member of one guild.

[greasemonk]

"As usual, we encourage guilds to work together on raid target selections. Leapfrogging, while technically not against the rules, is still an asshole move." - Rogean, April 7, 2019

[xdrcfrx]

KWSM is never in ToV unless a mob is conceded, both guilds are suspended or theres a quake all of which are uncontested (yes the quake is uncontested cause other guilds are clearing outside ToV while you kill Aary / Fesh).

Both guilds? AG and Freedom are one guild now? We're all very glad you've come to terms with this obvious reality, which everyone else has recognized for a long time.

[titanshub]

KWSM is never in ToV unless a mob is conceded, both guilds are suspended or theres a quake all of which are uncontested (yes the quake is uncontested cause other guilds are clearing outside ToV while you kill Aary / Fesh).

Last weekend we went into ToV and went head to head against all the other smaller guilds and competed for Vulak. This means we have all (kittens/tss/aegis/db/lighthouse)contested a Vulak in 2021 and will be included on any future rule changes made until 2022 right? I wish you the best of luck in your gatekeeping endeavors. lol

[indiscriminate_hater]

Last weekend we went into ToV and went head to head against all the other smaller guilds and competed for Vulak. This means we have all (kittens/tss/aegis/db/lighthouse)contested a Vulak in 2021 and will be included on any future rule changes made until 2022 right? I wish you the best of luck in your gatekeeping endeavors. lol

So... Detoxx is right

[titanshub]

So... Detoxx is right

Nah, its a silly metric to begin with but we (all) definitely met it last weekend.

[tacomagradd]

https://youtu.be/HQrY1muqaXs

Best part of this thread. Hands down.

[Terrok]

And, not knowing anything different, CSG guilds of course think the rules are stupid and dumb and just plain excessive. And why do we even need these rules?

13938

Oh yeah! There’s something called a ‘stalemate,’ which maybe you’d be stuck in right now except for this rule?

....it’s hard to say for sure.

Sorry you are being FORCED to play P99. Life must be rough.

[Detoxx]

Nah, its a silly metric to begin with but we (all) definitely met it last weekend.

How many times have you contested Vulak while Riot and FrAG werent suspended? Just asking for a friend

[MaCtastic]

How many times have you contested Vulak while Riot and FrAG werent suspended? Just asking for a friend

29 November 2020

[titanshub]

How many times have you contested Vulak while Riot and FrAG werent suspended? Just asking for a friend

I don't remember you being present was a requirement to meet the metric of having contested these mobs that was used to prevent us from having a say in the rule changes. :)

[Detoxx]

I don't remember you being present was a requirement to meet the metric of having contested these mobs that was used to prevent us from having a say in the rule changes. :)

It isnt. What it does require is the knowledge to know why the rule was implemented. Had you competed against us or Riot, you would know why. Instead, you complained about the rule and how it didnt make sense and was confusing. That is a direct result of you competing with everyone but the people who kill it every week.

[titanshub]

It isnt. What it does require is the knowledge to know why the rule was implemented. Had you competed against us or Riot, you would know why. Instead, you complained about the rule and how it didnt make sense and was confusing. That is a direct result of you competing with everyone but the people who kill it every week.

Great, I'm glad we can both agree that everyone should be included in the discussion next time.

[Detoxx]

Great, I'm glad we can both agree that everyone should be included in the discussion next time.

You guys were included. On the mobs you contest. Sev and Gore. You were even included in mobs you dont contest but claim that someday you will (Statue and KT). As for everything else, your presence was non-existent. Even the GMs knew this and made it clear that if you wanted more input in those areas, you should contest them more regularly.

It wasnt our call, it was theirs.

[titanshub]

You guys were included. On the mobs you contest. Sev and Gore. You were even included in mobs you dont contest but claim that someday you will (Statue and KT). As for everything else, your presence was non-existent. Even the GMs knew this and made it clear that if you wanted more input in those areas, you should contest them more regularly.

It wasnt our call, it was theirs.

Your definition of contested is carefully curated to meet your own ends. To say that quakes don't count as contested is disingenuous. They do. Kittens was there in force when you trained riot mid zlex on a quake and was actively "contesting" trips against them. We have teamed up with riot a good number of times to compete more effectively in a similar way to how you and AG team up. It just wasn't a permanent agreement. We sit in tov on pop day when timers are stacked to go after targets of opportunity (literally one to two weeks after every quake). We have contested both you and Riot and Koi. We contested AG for Jorrleag recently. We raced Riot to a Lord Kriezenn in the last few months, them from trips and us from the Aary pit. We have contested Aary on natural respawns head to head against other guilds a number of times in the last year etc etc etc. This is just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head that has happened in the last year.

The decision to exclude us from those conversations was made by the GM's but it was also a perspective heavily pushed by you and your officers in the UN in the lead up to that decision and thus you bear some responsibility denying us a voice in rule changes that do in fact effect us. I'm not upset about this, I am just pointing out how moving forward there is literally 0 reason to exclude us from any discussions about rule changes in ToV (including Vulak).

[Detoxx]

Freedom, AG and Riot are in ToV every week. You continue to point out all these times you have contested in ToV. There is not one single time I can remember you contesting anything in ToV that, again, wasnt where at least one guild was conceded or a blocker was left up with Vulak after a quake (the Kreizenn situation you are referring to).

You go to ToV on quakes, sure, but as soon as its no longer uncontested (AKA Aary, Fesh and Dagarn are dead) you leave or go to West ToV. Not trying to slight you here but all these you continue to point out all these times youve contested stuff in ToV but its not adding up to what I see every week.

[tyrant49333]

I think kittens doesn't understand what "contest" means. Contesting something means going for a target and competing against guilds who are also contesting it. No offense, but you contest nothing. Even on a quake, if another guild shows up you pack it up and move to something that no one else is competing on. You guys are not competitive at all, and yes, that means you never "contest" tov. You are merely vultures who show up for a free meal, but at the first sign of an opponent you turn tail and leave.

Does that help?

[titanshub]

Freedom, AG and Riot are in ToV every week. You continue to point out all these times you have contested in ToV. There is not one single time I can remember you contesting anything in ToV that, again, wasnt where at least one guild was conceded or a blocker was left up with Vulak after a quake (the Kreizenn situation you are referring to).

You go to ToV on quakes, sure, but as soon as its no longer uncontested (AKA Aary, Fesh and Dagarn are dead) you leave or go to West ToV. Not trying to slight you here but all these you continue to point out all these times youve contested stuff in ToV but its not adding up to what I see every week.

I thought we agreed that you are not required to be there to meet the definition of contested? Kriezenn was definitely contested, as were the other examples I am pointing out. Are we opportunistic in the way we choose targets? Yes. It's the way we play the game. The rules are for everyone and meant to be there to set a fair playing field. Excluding us from input on them was and still remains unfair because we are still bound by them.

Please don't mistake my pointing out examples of times we have gone head to head over dragons in ToV as being upset because I'm not. I don't require anyone's approval for how we choose to play the game. It's disingenuous to say that we don't compete when we do and it was unfair to not accept our input because it's as valid of a playstyle as trying to contest every dragon on every cycle.

[xdrcfrx]

I think kittens doesn't understand what "contest" means. Contesting something means going for a target and competing against guilds who are also contesting it. No offense, but you contest nothing. Even on a quake, if another guild shows up you pack it up and move to something that no one else is competing on. You guys are not competitive at all, and yes, that means you never "contest" tov. You are merely vultures who show up for a free meal, but at the first sign of an opponent you turn tail and leave.

Does that help?

Racist, and dumb as fucking bricks? Yikes.

You assholes wonder why everyone dislikes you lol.

[Swish]

Yeah Kittens, be more competitive so you too can enter the Freedom/AG/Riot petition mudslinging and get banned for weeks at a time.

I think what we have here is the naughty kids are mad at being put in timeout and a little jealous that other guilds didn't go down this road that must be annoying for the staff to say the least.

Just a thought :)

[Grumph]

The decision to exclude us from those conversations was made by the GM's but it was also a perspective heavily pushed by you and your officers in the UN in the lead up to that decision and thus you bear some responsibility denying us a voice in rule changes that do in fact effect us.




“The GMs did something we disagree with and it’s all your fault!”


Forsooth! Methinks thine own heart shall terry and, being torn asunder by the inequities and dark horrors of this unfathomable life, may inevitably expire admits the drowning torrent of thine own tears. Perish the thought dear Brother! For I stand most assured that, whereby you firmly grasp hold of this most precious of opportunities, that thee would find thyself instead sitting calmly at that great and mysterious pool, that which sits eternally in a dear quiet place, that seat of self reflection. Whereby yee shall high thee hence towards a renewed vigor, betwixt the vagaries of this cruel vain life, having been emboldened by those great ancestors that resideth in thine conscious, and thusly are saved from the abyss of antiquity, summoned once again as a bulwark of inspiration to trudge on. Once more into the breech! What say thee?

[Loke]

Lets say there is an office with 4 employees and a break room. Roger, Fred, and Al work in the office every day, where as Kevin is remote employee who only comes in for meetings once a month. Having run into a number of issues that caused office drama; Roger, Fred, and Al came up with some rules associated with the break room (e.g. clean the microwave after using it, don't use other people's coffee cup, etc). One day Kevin comes in and sees the rules that the others came up with and gets indignant about not being included in said discussion, despite the fact that Kevin almost never uses the break room.

Who is the asshole here?

If you want to more specifics on the rules or an explanation of why they exist, ask. Posting passive aggressive messages in the UN is a bitch move.

[tyrant49333]

Lets say there is an office with 4 employees and a break room. Roger, Fred, and Al work in the office every day, where as Kevin is remote employee who only comes in for meetings once a month. Having run into a number of issues that caused office drama; Roger, Fred, and Al came up with some rules associated with the break room (e.g. clean the microwave after using it, don't use other people's coffee cup, etc). One day Kevin comes in and sees the rules that the others came up with and gets indignant about not being included in said discussion, despite the fact that Kevin almost never uses the break room.

Who is the asshole here?

If you want to more specifics on the rules or an explanation of why they exist, ask. Posting passive aggressive messages in the UN is a bitch move.

Rofl this is great

[Nexii]

Lets say there is an office with 4 employees and a break room. Roger, Fred, and Al work in the office every day, where as Kevin is remote employee who only comes in for meetings once a month. Having run into a number of issues that caused office drama; Roger, Fred, and Al came up with some rules associated with the break room (e.g. clean the microwave after using it, don't use other people's coffee cup, etc). One day Kevin comes in and sees the rules that the others came up with and gets indignant about not being included in said discussion, despite the fact that Kevin almost never uses the break room.

Who is the asshole here?

If you want to more specifics on the rules or an explanation of why they exist, ask. Posting passive aggressive messages in the UN is a bitch move.

Great analogy can you put it into erotic story form

[xdrcfrx]

Who is the asshole here?




The asshole in your story is the employer who refuses to make Kevin an employee, and forces him to continue to work as an independent contractor, instead.

But none of us is employees of p99, so it's a shit analogy.

[greasemonk]

Posting passive aggressive messages in the UN is a bitch move.

Are you aiming this one at Detoxx?

[Loke]

The asshole in your story is the employer who refuses to make Kevin an employee, and forces him to continue to work as an independent contractor, instead.

But none of us is employees of p99, so it's a shit analogy.

Incorrect. Kevin is an employee, however, he was so insufferable to have around the office the boss acquiesced to his numerous requests to work from home. Remote employee != independent contractor. The hint is in the name...

That said, as insufferable as Kevin was to have around the office, he is still a valued employee because he is good at his job and is intelligent enough to understand an analogy doesn't need to perfectly mirror a situation to highlight the point being made.

[karadin]

Any guild that wanted to provide input on the rules was more than welcome to join us in timeout for 3 weeks. In the end what we got was a bunch of guilds pushing for rotations, which was at least partially successful. Rotations and competitive raid rules are mutually exclusive. I’m not dogging you for this, it’s what you guys felt was best for you.

In the end you got far more out of that suspension both during and after than we did so I would hardly be complaining if I were in your shoes.

[Arvan]

Lol trying to have a rational conversation like adults with these people you would get further talking to your cat

[xdrcfrx]

Any guild that wanted to provide input on the rules was more than welcome to join us in timeout for 3 weeks. In the end what we got was a bunch of guilds pushing for rotations, which was at least partially successful. Rotations and competitive raid rules are mutually exclusive. I’m not dogging you for this, it’s what you guys felt was best for you.

In the end you got far more out of that suspension both during and after than we did so I would hardly be complaining if I were in your shoes.

Why should anyone else, other than the 3 guilds that collectively submitted all but one of the petitions that led to being you all suspended for multiple weeks, have had to join in your punishment in order to be involved in discussion about rules which affect everyone? You're conflating two different things here.

In any event, you'll note that no one is complaining about the rule itself, but rather the manner in which it was adopted and the poor way it was communicated afterwards. In fact, the rule is quite good. Presently, the only place that rule is actually memorialized is in a pinned document in a sub-channel of the blue UN. Start by putting those rules in a place where a reasonable person might think to look, and/or the same place as all the other rules, and we're moving in the right direction. Certainly I would not expect "I didn't know about the rule," to be a valid defense to violating it, in your eyes? If not, then at least publicize it in a reasonably clear way.

[Grumph]

In any event, you'll note that no one is complaining about the rule itself, but rather the manner in which it was adopted and the poor way it was communicated afterwards. In fact, the rule is quite good.


Exactly. This is literally the least mature complaint that is physically possible.

[Sancta]

"Guys our guild is never going to attempt a target in ToV unless no one is there, we aren't going to contest a single thing, but give us a seat at the table which discusses the rules for a competitive environment."

Look if you were a competitive guild you would have known all the rules no matter where they were "stickied". And on top of that you'd have say in future rules, it's really that simple.

[Aadill]

Jutebox <KWSM>11/08/2020
Our proposal's limited draft with package deals would continue to be a good model for a quarterly draft. It's already been endorsed by KWSM, TSS, AEGIS, DB, LH. It helps speak to issues around blocker mobs, which is the more challenging aspect of a limited draft.

At least someone was aware of it.

My take on it is, it's a rule that every guild in TOV at the time could've agreed to ignore unless the GMs specifically said to follow the rule.
And, yes, the rules should be clearly posted somewhere. Thus far it's been left to server staff to maintain a permanent impartial and uneditable link to the rules. Makes the most sense to add it there.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189856

[xdrcfrx]

Jutebox <KWSM>11/08/2020
Our proposal's limited draft with package deals would continue to be a good model for a quarterly draft. It's already been endorsed by KWSM, TSS, AEGIS, DB, LH. It helps speak to issues around blocker mobs, which is the more challenging aspect of a limited draft.

At least someone was aware of it.

My take on it is, it's a rule that every guild in TOV at the time could've agreed to ignore unless the GMs specifically said to follow the rule.
And, yes, the rules should be clearly posted somewhere. Thus far it's been left to server staff to maintain a permanent impartial and uneditable link to the rules. Makes the most sense to add it there.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189856

Not clear if that's a rule we could have collectively agreed to ignore, or not. I can def see the argument for that position, though. Would the same line of thinking apply to other rules that were updated as part of that process? Certainly we'd be subject to those rules in the event any of AG/F/R are present, so I think the counterpoint is it's beneficial to just always be operating under a consistent standard.

Probably would make sense to update that forum post with current rule changes that were agreed to coming out of the collective ban in Oct/Nov, though. Thanks for the reasonable reply.

Sorry to you folks that were super triggered by having this pointed out lol.

[Sancta]

Sorry to you folks that were super triggered by having this pointed out lol.

Proceeds to post 10+ times in a thread calling Kittens out "Sorry you guys got triggered lol"

[Aadill]

Sorry to you folks that were super triggered by having this pointed out lol.

Personally, I'm not triggered, I'm just having a logical debate in RNF because despite being on this server for 10 years I have never learned.

[Aadill]

Personally, I'm not triggered, I'm just having a logical debate in RNF because despite being on this server for 10 years I have never learned.

Fuck, 11 years. What is wrong with me.

[xdrcfrx]

Proceeds to post 10+ times in a thread calling Kittens out "Sorry you guys got triggered lol"

sorry you got triggered by my being sorry you got triggered. hope this helps.

[greasemonk]

Any guild that wanted to provide input on the rules was more than welcome to join us in timeout for 3 weeks. In the end what we got was a bunch of guilds pushing for rotations, which was at least partially successful. Rotations and competitive raid rules are mutually exclusive. I’m not dogging you for this, it’s what you guys felt was best for you.

In the end you got far more out of that suspension both during and after than we did so I would hardly be complaining if I were in your shoes.

The thing you don't understand is that they did provide plenty of input. The whole time Furor and Detoxx basically told them to shut up and that their opinion didn't matter, mostly through insults and dismissals of their arguments due to the level of their 'competitiveness'.

That 'level' basically being that other guilds do not have people who are willing to sit for 16 hours ready to jump off a line for an instant engage when a mob spawns.

I really feel like you need to properly observe the levels of disdain that your leaders show to other guilds because you are absolutely falling into a trap of propaganda.

You mother fucking need Jesus.

[Naerron]

imagine only need to assign only 4 bits to your toon....that bytes...you need more powerful toons =P

My favorite part about pretending to be a 4 bit elf from 1988 is reading article XIV paragraph 3 in elfiquette appendix volume 7 so I don't upset an alarmingly diabetic unemployed man who is also pretending to be an elf

[Detoxx]

The thing you don't understand is that they did provide plenty of input. The whole time Furor and Detoxx basically told them to shut up and that their opinion didn't matter, mostly through insults and dismissals of their arguments due to the level of their 'competitiveness'.

That 'level' basically being that other guilds do not have people who are willing to sit for 16 hours ready to jump off a line for an instant engage when a mob spawns.

I really feel like you need to properly observe the levels of disdain that your leaders show to other guilds because you are absolutely falling into a trap of propaganda.

You mother fucking need Jesus.

Oh yeah cause Riots actions for 14 months when the server was uncontested was so much better. You gave 0 fucks and killed every single mob aside from the random Vindi you may have allowed another guild to try.

We say it how it is. Its like anything else, if you want to bargain, bring something to the table. Even the GMs are aware that a guild that doesnt contest (no matter how much you want to think your one off time "competing" on a Kreizenn that was intentionally left alone due to blocking Vulak is competition) should have much less weight in the decisions and rules made.

You guys are just fake and manipulative and use Kittens to push your agenda and these fools fall for it hook line and sinker. Its sad to see, really.

[sydbarrett25]

Freedom, AG and Riot are in ToV every week. You continue to point out all these times you have contested in ToV. There is not one single time I can remember you contesting anything in ToV that, again, wasnt where at least one guild was conceded or a blocker was left up with Vulak after a quake (the Kreizenn situation you are referring to).

You go to ToV on quakes, sure, but as soon as its no longer uncontested (AKA Aary, Fesh and Dagarn are dead) you leave or go to West ToV. Not trying to slight you here but all these you continue to point out all these times youve contested stuff in ToV but its not adding up to what I see every week.

He literally explained all the times kittens has competed. If you dont like the truth why comment at all? Just because you have an opinion doesnt mean it is right.

[sydbarrett25]

Lets say there is an office with 4 employees and a break room. Roger, Fred, and Al work in the office every day, where as Kevin is remote employee who only comes in for meetings once a month. Having run into a number of issues that caused office drama; Roger, Fred, and Al came up with some rules associated with the break room (e.g. clean the microwave after using it, don't use other people's coffee cup, etc). One day Kevin comes in and sees the rules that the others came up with and gets indignant about not being included in said discussion, despite the fact that Kevin almost never uses the break room.

Who is the asshole here?

If you want to more specifics on the rules or an explanation of why they exist, ask. Posting passive aggressive messages in the UN is a bitch move.

[greasemonk]

Oh yeah cause Riots actions for 14 months when the server was uncontested was so much better. You gave 0 fucks and killed every single mob aside from the random Vindi you may have allowed another guild to try.

We say it how it is. Its like anything else, if you want to bargain, bring something to the table. Even the GMs are aware that a guild that doesnt contest (no matter how much you want to think your one off time "competing" on a Kreizenn that was intentionally left alone due to blocking Vulak is competition) should have much less weight in the decisions and rules made.

You guys are just fake and manipulative and use Kittens to push your agenda and these fools fall for it hook line and sinker. Its sad to see, really.

Who was it that proposed the first resolution of permanent draft rotations when the first blanket ban came through? Riot.

Who was it that pushed for foot races opposed to COTHing (because Furor was losing the COTH battles)? You and Furor is the answer.

I understand that you and him are attempting to put Riot in the ground but it simply isn't going to work. You are going to burn out or Furor is finally going to get caught with his bullshit scumbaggery:

13960

Until that happens, we will simply just agree to disagree on who is the bigger jackass.

You mother fucking need Jesus.

[xdrcfrx]

Oh yeah cause Riots actions for 14 months when the server was uncontested was so much better. You gave 0 fucks and killed every single mob aside from the random Vindi you may have allowed another guild to try.

We say it how it is. Its like anything else, if you want to bargain, bring something to the table. Even the GMs are aware that a guild that doesnt contest (no matter how much you want to think your one off time "competing" on a Kreizenn that was intentionally left alone due to blocking Vulak is competition) should have much less weight in the decisions and rules made.

You guys are just fake and manipulative and use Kittens to push your agenda and these fools fall for it hook line and sinker. Its sad to see, really.

so how come all the guilds on the server maintain pretty cordial relations with Riot, but not your guild(s)? Case in point: a few weeks ago, when you got tracker FTE on zlex, immediately prior to (yet another) raid suspension taking effect, it took the collective server about 15 minutes to all agree to leave that zlex up until after you were suspended, so you couldn't kill vulak. Why was literally every other guild willing to do that, so quickly, if things were the way you say they are?

Because no one begrudges Riot killing mobs, and people respond to being treated decently. Greasemonk is right: you do need motherfucking jesus.

[Boptop]

AGAB.

[Chakfor]

Oh yeah cause Riots actions for 14 months when the server was uncontested was so much better. You gave 0 fucks and killed every single mob aside from the random Vindi you may have allowed another guild to try.

We say it how it is. Its like anything else, if you want to bargain, bring something to the table. Even the GMs are aware that a guild that doesnt contest (no matter how much you want to think your one off time "competing" on a Kreizenn that was intentionally left alone due to blocking Vulak is competition) should have much less weight in the decisions and rules made.

You guys are just fake and manipulative and use Kittens to push your agenda and these fools fall for it hook line and sinker. Its sad to see, really.

I pray that one day you can find a healthy outlet for your emotions. I don't dislike you so much as truly, deeply, pity you. It's a mystery who hurt you so badly that you'd feel the need to constantly spew so much hate over things that don't matter at all, in the end. And one day, whether it be today or in the twilight of your life, I hope that you find peace and learn to accept yourself and others.

[Viscere]

He likes competitive EQ

Want rotations ? go play animal crossing, cunt.

[Boptop]

Respectfully, it sounds like Kittens & Co. do not have an issue with competing, you both actually are in agreement on that issue! The need that I am identifying is that the Kittens want to feel acknowledged and to have some input on rules that can effect them.

Freedom appears to think that Kittens do not have legitimate standing to be making demands for reform. The objective criteria to be hashed out here is what constitutes legitimate standing - is it regular presence or simply having been in a position to be effected by the existing rules? I feel like there is a zone of agreement that would work for both parties. An alternative ruleset probably wouldn't work on grounds of 'fairness'. Perhaps simple inclusion in the discussion is enough after determining a proper objective criteria? Thoughts??

[greasemonk]

He likes competitive EQ

Want rotations ? go play animal crossing, cunt.

You still can't read, can you Viscere? I'm sure there are some copies of Hooked on Phonics still out there that could help!

It wasn't a push for rotations. It was a way to include all the guilds in the new proposals. Fair and balanced between all entities. The two guilds who argued and ultimately pushed that idea under the table were Freedom (and to a lesser extent AG due to the nature of Freedom's influence in their return to the raid scene).

Furor and Detoxx have two of the largest voices in the UN channel. More often than not, they are the ones who get their way in the changes assigned to the raid scene. This is done to ensure that they have an edge (looking at you footraces). Riot only agreed to end the ban. If they had not, then I do not doubt that the ban would still be in effect. Please do not let this fact escape your tiny brain.

Don't worry though, Detoxx will one day see you buddy! Keep on touting that party line!

You mother fucking need Jesus and Hooked on Phonics.

[Ennewi]

Any guild that wanted to provide input on the rules was more than welcome to join us in timeout for 3 weeks.

Any law-abiding citizen that wants to provide input on the laws is more than welcome to join us in jail/rehab for 3 weeks.

[Naethyn]

One thing is abundantly clear, the powers that be want nothing more than the status quo, because why would they want anything other than that? Everything so far is half measures that ultimately lead to a one guild monopoly dominating the raid scene for as long as they can keep members interested. Rinse. Repeat. Ride the wave as long as you can.

Want to see meaningful change in the raid scene by reducing the total number of petitions, and us vs them toxicity, while still fostering a competitive environment?

K1C1 (kill one concede one) is the answer.

[Praxcthius]

Well what would you suggest naethyn? Many of us have heard you say that particular thing for well over a year. What would be your solution? spawn warders again? one time ffa no holds barred sleepers rumble?

Klazdaxthun

[Nexii]

One thing is abundantly clear, the powers that be want nothing more than the status quo, because why would they want anything other than that? Everything so far is half measures that ultimately lead to a one guild monopoly dominating the raid scene for as long as they can keep members interested. Rinse. Repeat. Ride the wave as long as you can.

Want to see meaningful change in the raid scene by reducing the total number of petitions, and us vs them toxicity, while still fostering a competitive environment?

K1C1 (kill one concede one) is the answer.

Wouldn't K1C1 basically just be a rotation between Riot and FRAG?

[Naethyn]

Wouldn't K1C1 basically just be a rotation between Riot and FRAG?

I don't think FRAG will continue to cooperate if K1C1 is on.

By adding a third faction (or more) the "us vs them" toxicity that leads to petitions every cycle is broken. The eventuality of our current state is one guild taking over uncontested - it happens every time. If competition is the goal the only way to ensure it is to remove the eventuality of the one guild monopoly, and K1C1 does just that. Everything else has always lead to the same result.

Don't be fooled, the people who don't want K1C1 don't really want competition - they want their turn at pixel lordship.

[greasemonk]

Don't be fooled, the people who don't want K1C1 don't really want competition - they want their turn at pixel lordship.

These mother fuckers need Jesus.

[Grumph]

I don't think FRAG will continue to cooperate if K1C1 is on.

By adding a third faction (or more) the "us vs them" toxicity that leads to petitions every cycle is broken. The eventuality of our current state is one guild taking over uncontested - it happens every time. If competition is the goal the only way to ensure it is to remove the eventuality of the one guild monopoly, and K1C1 does just that. Everything else has always lead to the same result.

Don't be fooled, the people who don't want K1C1 don't really want competition - they want their turn at pixel lordship.


A fair point. Well spoken.

[Naethyn]

https://i.imgur.com/EwzwsJi.jpg

[Croco]

https://i.imgur.com/EwzwsJi.jpg

LOL

[greasemonk]

https://i.imgur.com/EwzwsJi.jpg

[Senix]

The overall point of the rule and was because every week 200+ people staring at each other. Trying to see who will go for the last blocker first which usually was no one cause either side didn't wana be at a disadvantage for a vulak engage. More than likely this last year was about 100+ hours of everyone watching each other do nothing. With this rule every mob is in hardy competition even to the last blocker. Now on the other hand it costs a lot more pearls and time. But over all I'de say it's worth having it in place reduces a lot of headaches.

[k9quaint]

https://i.imgur.com/EwzwsJi.jpg

Thread has ascended.

[Duckwalk]

I pray that one day you can find a healthy outlet for your emotions. I don't dislike you so much as truly, deeply, pity you. It's a mystery who hurt you so badly that you'd feel the need to constantly spew so much hate over things that don't matter at all, in the end. And one day, whether it be today or in the twilight of your life, I hope that you find peace and learn to accept yourself and others.

Him, furour and beef are just sad lonely people deriving value in their lives from "being better than", "outplaying" but really just trolling other players in a 20 year old emulated elf sim.

"the pixels are so much sweeter" say the shut-in after staring at his computer screen for 16 hours so that he can put a side grade on his 5th alt.

[xdrcfrx]

The overall point of the rule and was because every week 200+ people staring at each other. Trying to see who will go for the last blocker first which usually was no one cause either side didn't wana be at a disadvantage for a vulak engage. More than likely this last year was about 100+ hours of everyone watching each other do nothing. With this rule every mob is in hardy competition even to the last blocker. Now on the other hand it costs a lot more pearls and time. But over all I'de say it's worth having it in place reduces a lot of headaches.

no one's complaining about the rule. the original comment was just pointing out that lots of people were not fully aware of the rule, because even though they are obligated to follow it they were not allowed to be part of the conversation which led to its creation, and there is no single place where all rules are maintained and kept current. The fact of this ignorance was, briefly, an issue during the last vulak (which was in fact contested, in accordance with detoxx's definition of that term). However, since all involved at that time were reasonable, there were no significant consequences, and the comment was probably meant to be taken as a tongue-in-cheek kind of a thing. Pixel lust doesn't comport with a sense of humor, I guess.

It's all good, this latest suspension has ended, and we now can return to our regularly scheduled program of multiple weekly petitions between the top two raiding guilds. How many petitions a week was blue averaging before Freedom came along, anyways?

[Viscere]

https://i.imgur.com/7p107zG.gif

[Wokka]

so how come all the guilds on the server maintain pretty cordial relations with Riot, but not your guild(s)? Case in point: a few weeks ago, when you got tracker FTE on zlex, immediately prior to (yet another) raid suspension taking effect, it took the collective server about 15 minutes to all agree to leave that zlex up until after you were suspended, so you couldn't kill vulak. Why was literally every other guild willing to do that, so quickly, if things were the way you say they are?

Because no one begrudges Riot killing mobs, and people respond to being treated decently. Greasemonk is right: you do need motherfucking jesus.

Unfortunately the majority of people on the server are fools and are easily swayed by Riots manipulative party line. Just look at Arclers petitions, he almost always injects some moral point or deviates to talk about how FRAG does this or that on purpose, doing his best to coerce the GM's and other players on the server into believing what he says is right. He will continue to push this political agenda in spite of evidence of Riot actually being in the wrong in many cases, in any hope that more people will be sucked into his vortex of nonsense. FRAG certainly aren't squeaky clean at all times, but to continue to push this "Riot are the good guys" and never do wrong is laughable.

[Duckwalk]

lol wat?

Its obvious from just a casual glance at UN discord that Detoxx/Furour are bad faith negotiators. The mental gymnastics you FRAG people go through...

"See despite Detoxx being a complete cunt at basically every opportunity, he REALLY has your best interest at heart. It's all a giant conspiracy to use Detoxx's own behavior against him unfairly. Arcler's manipulating you"

[Sancta]

Imagine a guild that doesn't compete complain about the creation of a rule that moderates competition

We get it, the rule upsets the casuals b/c it requires melee to be bound outside ToV

[Senix]

oooof Sancta I didn't even think about that point..... yeah that vulak rule is a bit rough when your melee aren't bound at tov but then if you were bound at tov then would you not compete more often ?!

[Nexii]

You can have wizards/druids evac melee to TOV entrance. Or COTH back if you're desperate

[feniin]

Imagine a guild that doesn't compete complain about the creation of a rule that moderates competition

We get it, the rule upsets the casuals b/c it requires melee to be bound outside ToV

Who do you think doesn't have melee bound outside? :confused:

[Praxcthius]

So kittens wants a say on all things raid in the UN now? is that what this thread got to?
Let's see it was ages past (just a couple years ago, maybe 3). Multiple Kittens leaders were heard saying "It's like herding cats" to the point being made to actually go for targets in TOV Kael etc etc you understand what i'm saying. This being said a few of the kittens officers also had snipe crews for smaller raid targets they'd try to hit on quakes (ie fear golems) which kittens officers had also said multiple times they wouldn't organize to get forces going cuz it was too hard. I digress, when the masses of kittens would hear week in and week out. Klazdaxthun says to the guild "Fright just spawned, Dread just spawned, Terror just spawned" over and over and over finally did the officers attempt to get people together to contest those particular spawns. then months would go by until the critical mass, of the masses cries, would push them to do it once again.
I finally organized a few fellow mates to organize our own snipe crew after incessantly watching strats from am/aw. (before you had to be outside of zone when they spawned and rush in). alas word was leaked that the crew had gotten a few golems here and there and senior officers would rush in to take control of the loot and distribute it to people as they saw fit. now when am/aw were suspended for a month oh my the officers shouted with glee that they could finally be the overlords for norrath's mightiest loot tables. not ones to take chances on actually being leaders but to look like bottomfeeders getting that piece of filet when the lions were away.

Not once in that time did kittens leadership ever dispute any raid rules/guidelines call for some sort of summit to rehash things. why now?

Klazdaxthun

[kempoguy80]

So kittens wants a say on all things raid in the UN now? is that what this thread got to?
Let's see it was ages past (just a couple years ago, maybe 3). Multiple Kittens leaders were heard saying "It's like herding cats" to the point being made to actually go for targets in TOV Kael etc etc you understand what i'm saying. This being said a few of the kittens officers also had snipe crews for smaller raid targets they'd try to hit on quakes (ie fear golems) which kittens officers had also said multiple times they wouldn't organize to get forces going cuz it was too hard. I digress, when the masses of kittens would hear week in and week out. Klazdaxthun says to the guild "Fright just spawned, Dread just spawned, Terror just spawned" over and over and over finally did the officers attempt to get people together to contest those particular spawns. then months would go by until the critical mass, of the masses cries, would push them to do it once again.
I finally organized a few fellow mates to organize our own snipe crew after incessantly watching strats from am/aw. (before you had to be outside of zone when they spawned and rush in). alas word was leaked that the crew had gotten a few golems here and there and senior officers would rush in to take control of the loot and distribute it to people as they saw fit. now when am/aw were suspended for a month oh my the officers shouted with glee that they could finally be the overlords for norrath's mightiest loot tables. not ones to take chances on actually being leaders but to look like bottomfeeders getting that piece of filet when the lions were away.

Not once in that time did kittens leadership ever dispute any raid rules/guidelines call for some sort of summit to rehash things. why now?

Klazdaxthun

all i remember from your raids were all the farts. I hope you got that cleared up :)

[Wokka]

To say Kittens "regularly competes" in ToV is a straight up lie. Before I joined the top guilds Kittens was one I considered, I had friends there who told me they were one of the "top raiding guilds". I decided to app to one of the other guilds. I kept an eye on who contested what, I was learning the end game and curious on who were the "playmakers" and "competing guilds" so to speak. I very rarely ever saw Kittens actually contest a mob. Sure they would occasionally pop into ToV on a quake or respawn and try and snipe a few mobs, but that was it. They seemed to avoid any direct competition on mobs for the most part. So whining about how you dont get a say on rules when you aren't even involved with a lot of the "raiding competition" week to week, is both laughable and stupid. If you guys want to actually compete do it, I'm sure the top guilds would welcome more competition and involvement. If not that's cool, but probably best you go back to the corner and wait for the next suspension to mend that pixel sickness.

[xdrcfrx]

So kittens wants a say on all things raid in the UN now? is that what this thread got to?
Let's see it was ages past (just a couple years ago, maybe 3). Multiple Kittens leaders were heard saying "It's like herding cats" to the point being made to actually go for targets in TOV Kael etc etc you understand what i'm saying. This being said a few of the kittens officers also had snipe crews for smaller raid targets they'd try to hit on quakes (ie fear golems) which kittens officers had also said multiple times they wouldn't organize to get forces going cuz it was too hard. I digress, when the masses of kittens would hear week in and week out. Klazdaxthun says to the guild "Fright just spawned, Dread just spawned, Terror just spawned" over and over and over finally did the officers attempt to get people together to contest those particular spawns. then months would go by until the critical mass, of the masses cries, would push them to do it once again.
I finally organized a few fellow mates to organize our own snipe crew after incessantly watching strats from am/aw. (before you had to be outside of zone when they spawned and rush in). alas word was leaked that the crew had gotten a few golems here and there and senior officers would rush in to take control of the loot and distribute it to people as they saw fit. now when am/aw were suspended for a month oh my the officers shouted with glee that they could finally be the overlords for norrath's mightiest loot tables. not ones to take chances on actually being leaders but to look like bottomfeeders getting that piece of filet when the lions were away.

Not once in that time did kittens leadership ever dispute any raid rules/guidelines call for some sort of summit to rehash things. why now?

Klazdaxthun

that was then, this is now. hope this helps.

[feniin]

That was 4 years and 4 guild leaders ago, Klaz. Time to let go.

[titanshub]

Hi klaz, hope you are doing well. As I recall the issue was you sharing credentials on an officer cleric with people you shouldn't have. Sure some kittens try to make some money all we ask they do is play by the rules and not contest the guild when we call it as a target. I wouldn't call that a snipe squad but I guess that doesn't really fit with your narrative.

I do really care what y'all feel about how kittens competes. We meet the metric now for being included in future discussions unless the bar is moved from where it was set last round.

[Wokka]

The next logical question, when are KWSM going to merge with Riot?

[xdrcfrx]

The next logical question, when are KWSM going to merge with Riot?

you spelled "Azure Guard" and "Freedom" wrong.

[Ennewi]

To say Kittens "regularly competes" in ToV is a straight up lie. Before I joined the top guilds Kittens was one I considered, I had friends there who told me they were one of the "top raiding guilds". I decided to app to one of the other guilds. I kept an eye on who contested what, I was learning the end game and curious on who were the "playmakers" and "competing guilds" so to speak. I very rarely ever saw Kittens actually contest a mob. Sure they would occasionally pop into ToV on a quake or respawn and try and snipe a few mobs, but that was it. They seemed to avoid any direct competition on mobs for the most part. So whining about how you dont get a say on rules when you aren't even involved with a lot of the "raiding competition" week to week, is both laughable and stupid. If you guys want to actually compete do it, I'm sure the top guilds would welcome more competition and involvement. If not that's cool, but probably best you go back to the corner and wait for the next suspension to mend that pixel sickness.

KWSM is in ToV every quake or, as you put it, "occasionally pops in". The irregularity/scarcity of quakes means feast or famine, which is a fair trade-off to being suspended and/or locked in petitions. Socking is not a skill check. If a guild wants to min/max effort for pixels, others can interpret that as weak, I see it as efficient.

[Wokka]

you spelled "Azure Guard" and "Freedom" wrong.

That's cute, I think we are all expecting that to happen at some point. More curious how Riot is going to adapt to the near complete dry up of the loot conveyor. Allying with KWSM actually seems logical. That way you guys can be "efficient" as old mate put it, and let the Riot neckbeards do the socking etc. Riot tried absorbing as many guilds as they could to slow the decay but it's just not working anymore.

[Wokka]

KWSM is in ToV every quake or, as you put it, "occasionally pops in". The irregularity/scarcity of quakes means feast or famine, which is a fair trade-off to being suspended and/or locked in petitions. Socking is not a skill check. If a guild wants to min/max effort for pixels, others can interpret that as weak, I see it as efficient.

Every quake isn't "regularly competing". If you guys don't want to directly compete that's cool, just don't bitch about not having a say about the rules for direct competition between guilds for mobs. You got the snake draft now so everyone gets a free handout every few months

[Ennewi]

Every quake isn't "regularly competing". If you guys don't want to directly compete that's cool, just don't bitch about not having a say about the rules for direct competition between guilds for mobs. You got the snake draft now so everyone gets a free handout every few months

There are other times KWSM are there as well, actively looking for opportunities. Go figure, a guild that raids but also avoids petitions at all costs, not wanting to make more work for staff. Surprise, they might be irked when more work is made for them. All pixels are handouts. This server is a privilege to be on. Easy to forget when you look for every opportunity to talk down to others.

[Wokka]

There are other times KWSM are there as well, actively looking for opportunities. Go figure, a guild that raids but also avoids petitions at all costs, not wanting to make more work for staff. Surprise, they might be irked when more work is made for them. All pixels are handouts. This server is a privilege to be on. Easy to forget when you look for every opportunity to talk down to others.

Who am I talking down to? Just pointing out you guys don't regularly compete, yet want to bitch about not being involved in the rules for competitive raid mob engages. It's quite simple really. You want to be involved, get involved and actually be there more than once a month. Petitions are always going to be a thing, people make mistakes and that will continue for the rest of this server's life. There will never be a raid scene with 0 petitions, it is simply not possible. Heaven forbid the staff actually have to do work, they are so overworked!! Answering 5 petitions every couple of months and reimbursing people 8 months later must be so hectic. Just glad you guys save them some of the workload with your selfless actions.

[xdrcfrx]

Who am I talking down to? Just pointing out you guys don't regularly compete, yet want to bitch about not being involved in the rules for competitive raid mob engages. It's quite simple really. You want to be involved, get involved and actually be there more than once a month. Petitions are always going to be a thing, people make mistakes and that will continue for the rest of this server's life. There will never be a raid scene with 0 petitions, it is simply not possible. Heaven forbid the staff actually have to do work, they are so overworked!! Answering 5 petitions every couple of months and reimbursing people 8 months later must be so hectic. Just glad you guys save them some of the workload with your selfless actions.

Total number of petitions from the weeks you were suspended: 0.

[Wokka]

Of course there are no petitions, you guys would rather play a WoW style game where everything is divided up and free pixels for all. That's not the GM's vision (they have stated it multiple times) or what the top guilds want. Competition actually gives many people a reason to continue playing a 22 year old elf game that's been locked on the same expac for years.

[Kohedron]

YOU ALL asked for this. You made your bed, time to sleep in it.

[Ennewi]

Who am I talking down to? Just pointing out you guys don't regularly compete, yet want to bitch about not being involved in the rules for competitive raid mob engages. It's quite simple really. You want to be involved, get involved and actually be there more than once a month. Petitions are always going to be a thing, people make mistakes and that will continue for the rest of this server's life. There will never be a raid scene with 0 petitions, it is simply not possible. Heaven forbid the staff actually have to do work, they are so overworked!! Answering 5 petitions every couple of months and reimbursing people 8 months later must be so hectic. Just glad you guys save them some of the workload with your selfless actions.

Who are you talking down to? Idk. If not us, than the staff.

[sydbarrett25]

That's cute, I think we are all expecting that to happen at some point. More curious how Riot is going to adapt to the near complete dry up of the loot conveyor. Allying with KWSM actually seems logical. That way you guys can be "efficient" as old mate put it, and let the Riot neckbeards do the socking etc. Riot tried absorbing as many guilds as they could to slow the decay but it's just not working anymore.

Neat deflect! Dont think anyone was mentioning riot, but since its on your mind, keep talking about them 😀

[sydbarrett25]

Of course there are no petitions, you guys would rather play a WoW style game where everything is divided up and free pixels for all. That's not the GM's vision (they have stated it multiple times) or what the top guilds want. Competition actually gives many people a reason to continue playing a 22 year old elf game that's been locked on the same expac for years.

“Competition actually gives people a reason to stare at a wall for 16 hours at once?”

[Ennewi]

Regularly: At uniform intervals in time. With a constant or definite pattern.

KWSM don't fit that description? In contrast, periods occur once every 28 days on average, so maybe periodic would be the better word? But then quakes are more frequent than once per month, plus there are the weekends after quakes where windows of opportunity present themselves.

[greasemonk]

FRAG certainly aren't squeaky clean at all times, but to continue to push this "Riot are the good guys" and never do wrong is laughable.

You are right. Riot does wrong constantly. Shit happens. When Riot does mess up, more often than not Riot concedes or attempt to make things right.

The biggest difference is Riot don't do real shady shit constantly to try to 'win'. Stuff like this:

https://youtu.be/d_wmScmfALU

This was Jan 17, 2021.

Notice in the video that Riot/Kittens runs up to Vyemm because we are ready. Furor and his pull crew are there attempting to split things out. When he sees the Riot/Kittens force moving to position and isn't ready, he runs up to get FTE and stall Riot/Kittens raid force. You can see as I run backwards after the FTE goes out that AG/Freedom's raid is nowhere near close enough to start to engage Vyemm.

Things get messy afterwards and everyone ends up wiping. Afterwards, while in tells with Furor about that obvious bullshit, Furor and crew decided to attempt Vyemm to which they also wipe. Only then does Furor decide to call the concede to cover his tracks.

If you think that anything Riot does is even close to this kind of shit, please show me evidence. Otherwise, you don't know what the hell you are talking about and are just being fed narrative to support your own lust for 'victory'.

You mother fuckin need Jesus.

[Praxcthius]

Hi klaz, hope you are doing well. As I recall the issue was you sharing credentials on an officer cleric with people you shouldn't have. Sure some kittens try to make some money all we ask they do is play by the rules and not contest the guild when we call it as a target. I wouldn't call that a snipe squad but I guess that doesn't really fit with your narrative.

I do really care what y'all feel about how kittens competes. We meet the metric now for being included in future discussions unless the bar is moved from where it was set last round.

Hi pope. As I recall you were the guildleader at the time who wanted to "talk" with me about how kittens "operates" remember the angry yelling you did? I do.
The officer cleric you mentioned was Exeter. and I did not give his information to anyone ever. slackz entrusted me with his info when he left. remember? I deguilded him. that was the crux of the issue. remember how angry you all got saying I was deguilding "guild shared toons". I really don't appreciate you implying I betrayed a trust given to me. however that really does show how back and forth hypocritical the leadership was then.

I dont' have any issue with any guild member making plat. however after numerous times of having conversations with the leadership of kittens about doing golems so anyone who is stuck on that part of their epic can get it without having to pay exorbitant plat prices (much higher then than now), could do so and get the guild experience on killing things not in kc or seb..... that snipe group I spoke of consisted of 2 officers at least and others. it was pretty hypocritical to say to the guild "we can't do those cuz it would take too long to get people organized for them" then to see those same officers go do it without benefitting the guild as a whole. remember you guys were all about benefitting the guild.

You can kill vindi. Hell you guys can kill vulak pretty good when there are no guilds with numbers of consequential amount competing. sorry db you had a light crew that last vulak. I give you guys props for the koi/lady m. nice job. back to kwsm. I know you have a more u.s.a. nighttime turnout so why is it when there's mobs that spawn during those times you don't compete unless there's been a concession or a ban. (sorry that's not competing which is the theme of the raid scene).

You talk about wanting to be included yet refrain from really being in the mix. YOU have the numbers. You do have some talent. You do have knowledgable people. Then why the hell don't you jump in there? I would love to be able to send tells to the people who are still in kwsm I consider friends congratulating them on a good try or successful attempt.

Klazdaxthun

[feniin]

It was four years ago - please let go.

[titanshub]

Hi klaz, hope you are doing well. As I recall the issue was you sharing credentials on an officer cleric with people you shouldn't have. Sure some kittens try to make some money all we ask they do is play by the rules and not contest the guild when we call it as a target. I wouldn't call that a snipe squad but I guess that doesn't really fit with your narrative.

I do really care what y'all feel about how kittens competes. We meet the metric now for being included in future discussions unless the bar is moved from where it was set last round.

Hi pope. As I recall you were the guildleader at the time who wanted to "talk" with me about how kittens "operates" remember the angry yelling you did? I do.
The officer cleric you mentioned was Exeter. and I did not give his information to anyone ever. slackz entrusted me with his info when he left. remember? I deguilded him. that was the crux of the issue. remember how angry you all got saying I was deguilding "guild shared toons". I really don't appreciate you implying I betrayed a trust given to me. however that really does show how back and forth hypocritical the leadership was then.

I dont' have any issue with any guild member making plat. however after numerous times of having conversations with the leadership of kittens about doing golems so anyone who is stuck on that part of their epic can get it without having to pay exorbitant plat prices (much higher then than now), could do so and get the guild experience on killing things not in kc or seb..... that snipe group I spoke of consisted of 2 officers at least and others. it was pretty hypocritical to say to the guild "we can't do those cuz it would take too long to get people organized for them" then to see those same officers go do it without benefitting the guild as a whole. remember you guys were all about benefitting the guild.

You can kill vindi. Hell you guys can kill vulak pretty good when there are no guilds with numbers of consequential amount competing. sorry db you had a light crew that last vulak. I give you guys props for the koi/lady m. nice job. back to kwsm. I know you have a more u.s.a. nighttime turnout so why is it when there's mobs that spawn during those times you don't compete unless there's been a concession or a ban. (sorry that's not competing which is the theme of the raid scene).

You talk about wanting to be included yet refrain from really being in the mix. YOU have the numbers. You do have some talent. You do have knowledgable people. Then why the hell don't you jump in there? I would love to be able to send tells to the people who are still in kwsm I consider friends congratulating them on a good try or successful attempt.

Klazdaxthun

I sat down to have an awkward conversation with you that involved no yelling. Implying otherwise is kinda silly. You did share credentials with other people you shouldn't have. You then used your "friends" character to help a golem farm crew that was being toxic. When we told slackz found out he revoked the credentials because he left the char for the guild not to you. Now you go around tossing sick burns like oh look the crushbone guild is here when we show up to KT. I'm not mad it's just a little sad. You were a nice guy and a helpful kitten while you were here and I was sad to see you go.

As far as raiding goes Im not really interested in what you guys say you think about our comptency and competition level. You clearly see us as a threat which is why you made this thread and keep trying to troll us into going head to head on dragons so you can go full blow bully and train mode on us. No thanks. Wish you the best of luck though klaz hope the family is doing well.

[sydbarrett25]

His Lizardliness! �� ��

[Praxcthius]

toxic. most overused word in the last 4.5 years. you just said you weren't against people trying to make a little plat when in kittens so when I organize people to do the same thing the officers were doing it's toxic. ridiculous. and once again to reiterate since you seem set on blaming me for something I didn't do. I never shared Exeter's info with anyone who shouldn't have it. There are 0 times I'm aware that anyone I didn't know who had his info used him. Like I said you guys cried/bullied/distorted to slackz cuz I deguilded him. Ultimately it is slackz account and not once did I ever hear from him in a negative fashion that I abused his toon.

why do I need to see kwsm as a threat? why can't I just want as much competition as possible and see a multitude of guilds getting raid mobs each cycle? just about every raiding entity on this server has some sort of end game loot be it from a ban/concession/givin it the old college try.

I didn't make this thread. I pointed out some inaccuracies. Not sure how you see an actual reiteration of fact as trolling. then you accuse me of the bully card and saying i'm going to train you. that is messed up pope. when you get called out on things you resort to namecalling and innuendo. thanks for wishing my family well.

to the guy who said "this was four years ago let it go" it's rants and flames. there's still posts rehashed from 5 years before I came to this server. and have you seen how anytime arcler is called out on his insanities of belief of what agro mechanics are it's deflected to furoar and or detox. with a small side of ag sucks and can't do anything unless papa freedom says so. it is what it is.

Klazdaxthun

Welcome to Rants and Flames: where your dreams really do become nightmares

[k9quaint]

KWSM livin rent free in Klazheads since Gamestop was at tree fiddy!

[Praxcthius]

Typed big reply didn't go through. highlight points. Thanks wishing family well. Didn't share credentials with anyone who shouldn't have them. slackz was cool with me using Exeter. you mad I deguilded cleric.

You trying to put words into my mouth. threat. why did I ask you to actually compete? basis of facts in my statements = trolling somehow. call me a bully why? say i'll train you? really? calling me names and suggesting i'd do something willfully to be detrimental to the guild i'm in really is low.

toxic most overused word for a very long time. officers in kittens can have snipe/farm crews but somehow it's evil when I organized the same? bah.

See you on the playing field pope. I doubt it but I'm hoping.

Klazdaxthun

Welcome to Rants and Flames: Where dreams become nightmares

[Cassawary]

Typed big reply didn't go through. highlight points. Thanks wishing family well. Didn't share credentials with anyone who shouldn't have them. slackz was cool with me using Exeter. you mad I deguilded cleric.

You trying to put words into my mouth. threat. why did I ask you to actually compete? basis of facts in my statements = trolling somehow. call me a bully why? say i'll train you? really? calling me names and suggesting i'd do something willfully to be detrimental to the guild i'm in really is low.

toxic most overused word for a very long time. officers in kittens can have snipe/farm crews but somehow it's evil when I organized the same? bah.

See you on the playing field pope. I doubt it but I'm hoping.

Klazdaxthun

Welcome to Rants and Flames: Where dreams become nightmares

this one is also too long :confused:

[Praxcthius]

Kittens can live in my head all they want. rent free even. but after 10 pm no parties

Klazdaxthun

[Cassawary]

Kittens can live in my head all they want. rent free even. but after 10 pm no parties

Klazdaxthun

i think what you're saying is kwsm officers would declare golem a 'guild target' if they weren't able to contest it themselves?

sneaky kitties

[titanshub]

Typed big reply didn't go through. highlight points. Thanks wishing family well. Didn't share credentials with anyone who shouldn't have them. slackz was cool with me using Exeter. you mad I deguilded cleric.

You trying to put words into my mouth. threat. why did I ask you to actually compete? basis of facts in my statements = trolling somehow. call me a bully why? say i'll train you? really? calling me names and suggesting i'd do something willfully to be detrimental to the guild i'm in really is low.

toxic most overused word for a very long time. officers in kittens can have snipe/farm crews but somehow it's evil when I organized the same? bah.

See you on the playing field pope. I doubt it but I'm hoping.

Klazdaxthun

Welcome to Rants and Flames: Where dreams become nightmares

Just a video game, see you around man.

[Wokka]

You are right. Riot does wrong constantly. Shit happens. When Riot does mess up, more often than not Riot concedes or attempt to make things right.

The biggest difference is Riot don't do real shady shit constantly to try to 'win'.

This one gave me a good chuckle. Maybe that was true in the past, but it sure as hell ain't true at this point in time. Do you actually read the petitions and arguments in UN? Lately Arcler seems to have this "deny absolutely anything unless it's proven from multiple angles with fraps" and even then he still denies it. Look at all the concessions lately, see riot there?? Intentionally slowing another guilds raid mobs, interfering with pulls, attempting to blame FRAG for interfering with their statue pull which in reality was a poor pull and kite, etc etc. The GM's wanted the guilds to attempt to work together rather than go straight to petitions, all I see from Arcler is political nonsense to try and further his agenda, no attempt to put the past where it belongs, in the past. It's a shame most people are fools and easily believe the first bit of propaganda they hear.

You motherfuckers need Intelligence.

[Croco]

"deny absolutely anything unless it's proven from multiple angles with fraps"

Oh you mean he's been parroting back what detoxx and furoar have been saying since the beginning of time? You realize that detoxx literally built his entire p99 persona on that right? Prove it 17 ways with a dozen fraps and oh btw I'm never wrong about anything. If my opinion now is different from my opinion from 2 years ago and you have the pics to show my hypocrisy I'm still right, I was right then, and I'm right now, but don't question me too hard about it or I'll spout a bunch of bs and whataboutisms that have nothing to do with the conversation being had. That's literally detoxx.

The irony and cognitive dissonance of you accusing arcler of literally being detoxx is so rich.

[Gozuk]

It's like a double A team in the minors mad that a rule in the big leagues got changed.

Makes the gear that much sweeter to obtain when you beat someone else for it!

Yikes

[pogs4ever]

Can we talk about how they should have been Babab’s boots of the vindicator while we rehash drama from 4 years ago!

[apathe]

Can we talk about how they should have been Babab’s boots of the vindicator while we rehash drama from 4 years ago!
God damn greedy paladins ruining this server!