Green Economy

[Izmael]

Is it me, or it's pretty stale?

I spent several hours, over the last few days, auctionning stuff in the hundreds of plat and barely got any tells. Stuff that usually goes really quickly as it's affordable twink gear. The few tells I got mostly wanted to buy for half wiki price or less.

Green economy seems pretty dead atm. Or maybe people just wait for the prices to crash due to the inevitable mudflation?

[BiG SiP]

it’s because ppl want to pay blue prices on green

[Zwieback]

it’s because ppl want to pay blue prices on green

exactly.

[Shac]

or because they are all poor and actually need the cheapo prices

[Castle2.0]

Knowledge is the problem.

One example is people know which items will be removed and which items will be retroactively nerfed.

Selling a fungus robe or a twig is very different from selling a fungus stick, manastone or rod of mourning. One gets retro-nerfed and one gets removed/nerfed.

We know this info in advance and price accordingly.

Another knowledge problem is that buyer-seller assymetric knowledge is shrinking.

In real markets, consumers don't have perfect knowledge. In an emergent EQ market, individuals tended to camp certain items and knew more about the drop rates, difficulty, etc. than others. They used this disparity to make money.

Have you ever gotten to a camp you've never done and realized it was a lot easier/harder and you got the item much faster/slower than you expected?

On live, by the time that info can get around we'd be past that round of loot and on to new expansions with new loot.

But we had Beta for 10 years. Knowledge disparity is shrinking.

Also, we have historical pricing from Beta for 10 years, and people use or misuse this information.

Most people want to sell manastones and lockets at 3-4+ year prices TODAY, and want to buy fungus tunics and tstaffs at 3-4+ year prices TODAY.

tl;dr


People know how useful items are, how long they take to get, and how difficult they are to obtain -- buyers cannot leverage that information for the same profits they used to
People use blue as a price reference - they see what prices will likely be in the future for what they want to buy/sell, and if it's better than current market they go with that number
People know what items will be retro-nerfed or removed

[greatdane]

Most people are out leveling, and most spent the month leading up to Kunark buying the things they'd need. The market is stale because noone's buying Stein of Moggok and Gatorscale Sleeves two weeks into Kunark.

I put together a full set of necro twink gear a month before the expansion and it was clear that many others were doing the same. The amount of "WTB ShadowBound gloves+boots" etc. that I saw on a daily basis was telling.

The stuff that's selling at the moment is the stuff you couldn't get before, i.e. monk weapons and tank-worthy chain gear. Kylong/Sebscale will sell, especially if you go to OT/LOIO/etc. instead of expecting iksar alts to come to EC.

[cubiczar]

Most people are out leveling

This.

Give it a couple months for people to get their mains to 60 and the market will be back. I've made a couple trips to EC during normally busy times to pick up a couple items and found very little for sale compared to normal. I think the same is true for buyers, just less folks buying and selling atm.

[Jibartik]

When I think of buying something on green it's like, meh, I'm here to camp that item.

I was hoping to see more WTT this item, for that item, like back in the oooollllld dayys

But no it's mostly "that'll be 12k for the ring"

One thing that is lost over time and I dont think we'll ever get back, is the "oh man that guy is cool because he has X item"

I think those days are gone.

[Tunabros]

People don't understand that Blue is a 10+ years old server

and think the prices on there should be accurate to the Green Economy

[Jibartik]

Yeah I think it's important to remember that if you die with money on green, like IRL you cant take it with it, so blow it on the items you want now I reckon.

[Fammaden]

Yeah I think it's important to remember that if you die with money on green, like IRL you cant take it with it, so blow it on the items you want now I reckon.

That doesn't help when stuff is literally ten times more expensive than it will be in three months. Buying any new Kunark shiny toys right now just feels absurd. I'm all for spending your plat on gear rather than just hoarding money for the sake of it, but that doesn't mean I want to waste what little I have either.

[Tuljin]

or because they are all poor and actually need the cheapo prices

This is the correct answer. (the blue prices thing is also a large factor)

The Green economy has always been fucked since the beginning. It started in the fall with Nub Team gouging their own guildies on necessary ~~~rAiD~~~ clickies and top drops. Mith 2handers were selling in the 20k range and up, root nets went for 2k for a very long time, a price NEVER reached on Blue -ever-

As the ~~~rAiD sCeNe~~~ escalated, there were tons of people funneled into these guilds and awarded DKP. For many WoW players and other players from other MMOs this seemed like the logical choice/progression. Most people for the lifetime of Green invested in DKP instead of plat. There are a few people who are plat farmers who ended up with piles and piles of plat. Fat cats pay top dollar for nothing Everyone else is either relatively broke or absolutely effing broke.

On Blue "everyone getting DKP" was not "a thing" at all whatsoever. DKP was not a currency to invest in. Items and plat were.

Enter Kunark where now most guilds are doing a Kunark-wide loot for DKP bid situation. This is to make members feel like their funny money accumulated over Classic is actually worth something because there are so many mouths to feed that its mathematically impossible for every single member of even the ~~~tOp gUiLd~~~ to get a piece of loot from a Kunark dragon.

How the hell do you think a Blade of the Black Dragon Eye is for sale? Absolute and total Kingdumb DKP cashout. I don't necessarily have a problem with it, these are simply facts.

Everyone invested in DKP instead of plat. With guild-wide DKP bids on every single Kunark item dropped, why spend plat? DKP is "free" right?

You can get great drops right now that are excellent upgrades and people balk at spending thousands of plat. Why? Because everyone has DKP stocked up and they have crabs in their pockets (Greek saying lol)

OP is absolutely correct. The economy is indeed stale.

Its not because everyone is out leveling. People out leveling need upgrades. They actually can't afford upgrades and they roll deep to make sure mobs die. People are seeking camps where they can roll on the upgrades they need and win them "for free" or they can spend DKP on items.

The economy doesn't feel stale. It -is- stale.

[Balimon]

Dang dude that was a great insight into Green. It makes all the weird DKP stuff I've seen make sense now.

[Exard3k]

atm prices are too high. People want to sell new exciting Kunark items for ludicrous prices.
I expect some serious price drops within the next weeks, because people have to put price tags on item to actually sell. And at that point, we'll see some actual amount of transactions and competition going....expected gold rush will soon meet reality.

You seen any WTBs? Barely....people just waiting for prices they can afford. Plat on green is worth much more than it is on blue.

[Soothsayer]

Why spend many times more for an item than the item's eventual price? For most normal, functioning human beings with real life obligations, making tens or hundreds of thousands of plat is difficult. Why spend your hard earned money on stuff that will plummet in value within a few short months? It just isn't a logical calculation for most people to spend... what, 10k for a Lammy? 1500 for a GJB? I mean, get real.

We have a good idea of what prices on many items will eventually be. If outliers want to spend out the yeeng-yang for ShInY KuNArK items that Blue regards as budget twink junk, let them. For everyone else, patience is a virtue.

[Tuljin]

Why spend many times more for an item than the item's eventual price? For most normal, functioning human beings with real life obligations, making tens or hundreds of thousands of plat is difficult. Why spend your hard earned money on stuff that will plummet in value within a few short months? It just isn't a logical calculation for most people to spend... what, 10k for a Lammy? 1500 for a GJB? I mean, get real.

Precisely this. This is the state of the Green economy.

I am willing to move items for what the economy will bear. I have some great items for sale. Post Adamantite Club on EC forums with make an offer? Crickets. Post Mrylokar's Vambraces? Crickets on forums, someone in EC offered me pretty much the equivalent of pocket lint and shoe string in trade.

People can get top items with DKP or at intra-guild auctions where they sell for fire sale prices. There's also so many guild groups going that people will go to camps where they can just roll on drops.

Rich people will always buy yachts. Fat cats will always buy TStaffs and Fungis.

There is no upper-middle to low tier market at all. People can't afford to make a fair offer on very good items and they can't even afford low-tier items. I sold a Lamentation very early for 7k, dude made a decent offer and I moved it. It is absolutely worth that much money. Addy clubs are absolutely worth 5 digits and they won't go much lower than that on Green. According to Blue wiki they still sell for 4k after years upon years of plat inflation as well as Velious gear being available.

Also, in "a few short months" these items actually won't plummet in value appreciably and..."in a few short months"...Velious will be out.

Soothsayer isn't "wrong" at all. In fact, what he said is precisely what I just posted. For many players, thousands of plat is a lot of fucking money. Especially when they spent all their time in this game investing in DKP instead of plat.

[Lizard1]

its a non pvp server, you can level to 60 in cloth armor

Bet if you had a FBSS people would pay well for it

Sorry you lost at farming loot

[greatdane]

People wanting 20k for CoS, an "uncommon" drop from a multi-spawn not-terribly-rare mob that barely counts as a legacy item, is one of those eyeroll aspects of Green's economy. I'm sure the price will go down as the necro/SK mains get theirs, but just trying to get 20k for something that's more common than Gatorscale Leggings is just pure cringe. Has anyone even bought one for that price?

[Lizard1]

so dont buy it and price will level out, its new and exciting and virgins want to be the first nerd with XX item

if you dont like it dont play, stop complaining and camp your own gatorscale legs

[Scalem]

Precisely this. This is the state of the Green economy.

I am willing to move items for what the economy will bear. I have some great items for sale. Post Adamantite Club on EC forums with make an offer? Crickets. Post Mrylokar's Vambraces? Crickets on forums, someone in EC offered me pretty much the equivalent of pocket lint and shoe string in trade.

People can get top items with DKP or at intra-guild auctions where they sell for fire sale prices. There's also so many guild groups going that people will go to camps where they can just roll on drops.

Rich people will always buy yachts. Fat cats will always buy TStaffs and Fungis.

There is no upper-middle to low tier market at all. People can't afford to make a fair offer on very good items and they can't even afford low-tier items. I sold a Lamentation very early for 7k, dude made a decent offer and I moved it. It is absolutely worth that much money. Addy clubs are absolutely worth 5 digits and they won't go much lower than that on Green. According to Blue wiki they still sell for 4k after years upon years of plat inflation as well as Velious gear being available.

Also, in "a few short months" these items actually won't plummet in value appreciably and..."in a few short months"...Velious will be out.

Soothsayer isn't "wrong" at all. In fact, what he said is precisely what I just posted. For many players, thousands of plat is a lot of fucking money. Especially when they spent all their time in this game investing in DKP instead of plat.

I go to guild camps on my main in seb, kc and wherever else and sell the good loot I win with /rand on my mule. Only way for me to be able to get top tier gear when there's people in my guild with hundreds and hundreds of dkp that I can't get unless I decide to play 20 hours a day.

[greatdane]

so dont buy it and price will level out, its new and exciting and virgins want to be the first nerd with XX item

if you dont like it dont play, stop complaining and camp your own gatorscale legs

Ah, a Trump-voter.

[Trexller]

Ah, a Trump-voter.

Hmm a person who doesn't expect a handout and has the work ethic to go out and do for themselves?

Yep, Trump Voter.

[Tuljin]

its a non pvp server, you can level to 60 in cloth armor

Bet if you had a FBSS people would pay well for it

Sorry you lost at farming loot

I appreciate this troll attempt, but really the big brain hustle later on in on Green Classic was farming shit loads of non-lore items worth 400-800ish pp that weren't necessarily permafarmed (charred guardian shield is an example)

Squallsurge Shawl barely sells for 3k anymore and you might get one once every couple days on an 8 hour spawn. And its actually a very good item. The all the kedge drops were never worth the time for payout because.......everybody's broke. Freeti is obv a good camp but every idiot and asshole is constantly jockeying for it.

Shit like a lot of pieces of Sebilite Scale should be selling like hotcakes at a few hundred plat a pop but..........everybody's broke. That stuff is really good upgrades for leveling toons. Selling fine steel you should be able to scrounge up that money easily.

I will say though that tons of items are in fact super overvalued and with the whole DKP getting top loot first thing on Green Kunark (which wasn't the case on blue) you in fact....-dont- get people that went and "put in the work" to get the Kunark drops. They warmbodied in Classic for months and spent their funny money and now they want to cash out for absurd amounts.

How much is a Necklace of Superiority worth? Is it 60k? Is it 38k? Is it 30k? Is anybody even paying that much for one? How many people on this box can actually go to Drusella and survive? With the level of play I've seen in Kunark so far its really not many, at all.

I think NoS its a great item but its only worth what people will pay. Just like anything else. Economics 101. The EQ nerd paper-napkin-math-worthy-of-scientific-jounal-publication and the "you're so smart you're actually a fucking idiot" EQ player bullshit is strong on this box. You can't sell something for a price nobody is willing to pay.

[pgerman]

i offer 500k

[cd288]

Is it me, or it's pretty stale?

I spent several hours, over the last few days, auctionning stuff in the hundreds of plat and barely got any tells. Stuff that usually goes really quickly as it's affordable twink gear. The few tells I got mostly wanted to buy for half wiki price or less.

Green economy seems pretty dead atm. Or maybe people just wait for the prices to crash due to the inevitable mudflation?

Some of it is because people are focusing on the grind. Another part of the equation is that this time around Kunark isn’t going to be around for years; so for some items people know that within a year they might become more obsolete or arguably a bit less better than certain Velious pieces and the price will drop.

Same thing like how certain items sold less during the old world era because you know in Kunark some of those items are going to be so outpaced that people would rather just wait for the next expansions gear than pay an inflated price

[BarnabusCollins]

You forget Green is 13 months old and blue has 11 years of plat income.

[BarnabusCollins]

Jacob Rothschild owns 500,000,000,000,000 US Dollars - don't accept any handouts make your own way like Jake did. Steal it.

[gregster]

Misinformation. Unless your character can actually cast the spell aggro procs are capped at 400. Then I've seen Ssoy still trying to be sold for 2k, Yak clubs going for 1k, Kunzar kujuchs for 200p, Acid etched war sword 600p. Today I seen a claw impaler trying to be sold at 1k.

[Castle2.0]

It's a great market. Lots of disparity. Big opportunities. I see the concern that the gnomes are getting gnomier and while the trolls getting trollier, but that's Norrathian capitalism.

You got people going every which direction. FOMO dude over there paying arm + leg. Stubborn 5-year investor over there who won't lower price 1k.

I love the diversity.

[Lizard1]

All i hear is complaining from people lucky enough to sit on their ass and play an online game

what would happen if some of you actually had to work and didnt even have the energy or brainpower to play a video game?

[BarnabusCollins]

What would happen if Lord Jacob Rothschild had to work at McDonalds to survive.
It's coming.

The exalted WILL BE debased, and the debased WILL BE exalted.

This word does not return void.

[adruidarkly]

When I think of buying something on green it's like, meh, I'm here to camp that item.


Boom, just buying it isn't nearly as fun as going out and obtaining it yourself.

[adichi]

everyone wants to sell for 10x the amount it goes for on blue, but wants to pay for half of what it costs on blue :)

i just farm what i need, never was good with moneys anyways