The burden of proof is on nilbog.

[Baler]

Nilbog you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the changes you've approved to the karana zones are in fact classic.

This is not a Rants and Flames or Off Topic thread.

[BiG SiP]

https://i.imgur.com/91sn32Q.jpg

[cd288]

When was NK binding implemented? I always thought it was Kunark but could be wrong

[Baler]

When was NK binding implemented? I always thought it was Kunark but could be wrong

https://wiki.project1999.com/Bind_Locations
March 2001 patch - Warrens Era

https://wiki.project1999.com/Timeline
~October 2021

https://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_notes#March_6.2C_2001_3:00_am
New bind locations have been added to three zones in the world - One on Antonica and two others on Kunark.

[mcoy]

I haven't been to the karanas recently - what's different? All I've noticed is some additional pathers in Dreadlands.

-Mcoy

[Baler]

I haven't been to the karanas recently - what's different? All I've noticed is some additional pathers in Dreadlands.

-Mcoy

@Mcoy If you require a refresher on the publicly stated changes to the karana zones:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370884

[BlackBellamy]

@Mcoy If you require a refresher on the publicly stated changes to the karana zones:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370884

Yes I see:

rogean: changes were made
telin: to karana

ok now it's all clear.

[Nuggie]

St. nilbog owes us nothing. He has already given 10 years.

[Cen]

West Karana was also given the druid mobs as bandits, but they are souped up beyond belief.. and they even cast GATE! Its crazy. I am avoiding them ;D

[douglas1999]

I definitely don't remember any mobs below like level 50 ever gating, that seems odd.

[Dolalin]

The gating mobs are probably already fixed and just waiting on a patch. Everyone knows they shouldn't gate :D Don't worry about that.

[Loadsamoney]

Actually, the burden lies with you, Baler. If you cannot disprove something, then it must be true.

[BarnabusCollins]

Why are you still in North Karana with Kunark out, you love classic that much?

[Exard3k]

Actually, the burden lies with you, Baler. If you cannot disprove something, then it must be true.

qft

[magnetaress]

I don't remember a ton of static mobs there.

Why are you still in North Karana with Kunark out, you love classic that much?
A wide open high visibility zone with many safe med points. GLS's.

And a melee bind point. SK and EK access. As well as groups in paw.

Between lake rath arena bind and nK gypsies is the best part of the game. Personally leveled a warrior out there many years ago.

[sajbert]

Actually, the burden lies with you, Baler. If you cannot disprove something, then it must be true.

Uh, what? As a general rule the burden of evidence on anyone who’s trying to prove something. It can be impossible to disprove things that don’t exist (flying spaghetti monsters, you name it). For instance, no mention of dragons anywhere in Nektulos forest doesn’t mean that they didn’t exist.

However, it’s their server and they have extensive knowledge of the game. It’s fair to assume that they have a basis for these changes and that it’s too much work to present that with each and every change. As such we the players are expected to first provide evidence that either outright disproves or casts reasonsble doubt on whatever element of the game it is that may be wrong.

[Loadsamoney]

Uh, what? As a general rule the burden of evidence on anyone who’s trying to prove something. It can be impossible to disprove things that don’t exist (flying spaghetti monsters, you name it). For instance, no mention of dragons anywhere in Nektulos forest doesn’t mean that they didn’t exist.

However, it’s their server and they have extensive knowledge of the game. It’s fair to assume that they have a basis for these changes and that it’s too much work to present that with each and every change. As such we the players are expected to first provide evidence that either outright disproves or casts reasonsble doubt on whatever element of the game it is that may be wrong.

WOOSH.

[Cen]

Uh, what? As a general rule the burden of evidence on anyone who’s trying to prove something. It can be impossible to disprove things that don’t exist (flying spaghetti monsters, you name it). For instance, no mention of dragons anywhere in Nektulos forest doesn’t mean that they didn’t exist.

However, it’s their server and they have extensive knowledge of the game. It’s fair to assume that they have a basis for these changes and that it’s too much work to present that with each and every change. As such we the players are expected to first provide evidence that either outright disproves or casts reasonsble doubt on whatever element of the game it is that may be wrong.

Burden of proof is about making a claim, specifically. If you are making a claim, you need to provide evidence to substantiate the claim, otherwise the claim is rejected. Its about whether or not you reject the null hypothesis, or fail to reject the null hypothesis.

If someone is demonstrably guilty of commiting a crime, which is a claim to their guilt, they are guilty, but if they are not demonstrated to commit a crime, they are not guilty, which is just the inability to substantiate the claim of guilt, not a descriptor of what happened to consider it a crime.


A claim can be about something not being the case, it all depends on what the claim is.

[Gustoo]

Man I do love the Karanas. So big, so cool. So many special places in such a huge open zone. So many opportunities for quests and stuff.

Making it out of the karanas through highpass is one of the sweetest journeys in any game especially because you pretty much always make it when you're barely high enough level to stay alive.

GL in the best game guys.

[Baler]

I've had two people send me PMs thinking I'm upset about the disabled quest exp.
I don't give a shit about quest exp being disable. The only problem on that topic is it's 1 more not classic thing on this custom server. But it's not what this thread is about. Nilbog and Telin know why i'm upset. I'd bet staff have even seen me working mobs in the karanas on the non-disclosed 7+ alts I have on blue and 5 alts on green.

North Karana is especially trash now.

[Donkey Hotay]

Posts: 7,555


Nice trips. Wanna tell us what has changed so radically in the Karanas? The bandits have druids and the griffons and griffennes aggro more easily are what I see from patch notes and hearsay and something about level ranges getting adjusted but what I'm not seeing is what's wrong (other than Gate).

[Cen]

I've had two people send me PMs thinking I'm upset about the disabled quest exp.
I don't give a shit about quest exp being disable. The only problem on that topic is it's 1 more not classic thing on this custom server. But it's not what this thread is about. Nilbog and Telin know why i'm upset. I'd bet staff have even seen me working mobs in the karanas on the non-disclosed 7+ alts I have on blue and 5 alts on green.

North Karana is especially trash now.

Wait people send you PM's about what happens on the board? O.O ive never had this happen

[BlackBellamy]

Wait people send you PM's about what happens on the board? O.O ive never had this happen

PM sent.

It's specifically not about quest experience so don't yell at me like Baler.

[Cen]

PM sent.

It's specifically not about quest experience so don't yell at me like Baler.

I would never do that. <3

[Baler]

Wait people send you PM's about what happens on the board? O.O ive never had this happen
Sometimes it's easier to talk in private. Plus I enjoy PM conversations.

PM sent.

It's specifically not about quest experience so don't yell at me like Baler.
We should meet up in game and discuss the finer details of norrath. Like dorf women with beards :eek:

[OuterChimp]

Nilbog you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the changes you've approved to the karana zones are in fact classic.

This is not a Rants and Flames or Off Topic thread.

Negative.

If it's Nilbog's server, then I don't think he owes us anything! He can do what he wants!

[Baler]

Negative.

If it's Nilbog's server, then I don't think he owes us anything! He can do what he wants!

on a civil note, I agree with that statement.
Even when it hurts to say sometimes.

[Blistig]

Nilbog you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the changes you've approved to the karana zones are in fact classic.

This is not a Rants and Flames or Off Topic thread.

No, he really doesn't.

[Baler]

No, he really doesn't.

why are you just responding now, you know how many times I've seen you viewing this thread?

[Blistig]

This is the first time I've looked at this one, not sure what that's about. Came here to post a stickied thread which I would encourage everyone to spread the word about.

[Baler]

This is the first time I've looked at this one, not sure what that's about. Came here to post a stickied thread which I would encourage everyone to spread the word about.

Well this thread isn't about disabled quest exp. Rather the changes made to level ranges and spawns. Okay fine statics were removed I get it, it was too good and probably not classic. But in North Karana for example you can hunt out all the scythe beetles and I can't for the life of me place where any of them spawn now.
I don't remember any bug reports about this and I firmly believe it is not classic. Asking me to provide evidence isn't fair either. Y'all made the change, where are the facts it's based on?

[BiG SiP]

I’m sure they’ll get right on it
(LOL)

[Buellen]

with respect

I could have sworn the beetles ( all three types ) shared spawn chance. now this is from memory so not sure how it is done here.

for what its worth i leveled a lot on eqmac when it was active and that was my experience i would have to clear other beetles to get scyth to spawn.

Location link:

http://web.archive.org/web/20031220060800/http://www.geocities.com/ficticiousname9/zone/Northern_Plains_of_Karana.html

[Buellen]

for what its worth beetles could go missing even in 2020

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/north-karana-missing-all-beetle-spawns.265716/

[Baler]

So here is the problem and ultimately why it's not classic.
There are three eras of the Karanas, primarily west and north karana.
Pre-bandit plague era, bandit plague era & post bandit plague era.

The changes applied would fall under post bandit plague era or even later. That would be velious or later, NOT kunark or classic. Meaning if the goal is to emulate classic 1999-2001 that's not what they've done with this change.

Now I know nilbog love Magelo and such but the info is too new to apply. We need proper evidence based on 1999-2001 log files or websites. Not what luclin+ magelo tells us it is.

If you can't understand what im saying with this post, read it again else you won't get it.
Era Accuracy is one thing that makes P99 stand out from TLP for example.

[Buellen]

Hi Baler

I understand you want the changes applied as the changes happened in live during the server era of progress.

I personally have not found any data to show bandits (what i researched the most) being different the Era's you describe. This does not mean the data does not exist.

The evidence to make these changes you want. Only come about if you find it and post it in bugs.

like many others have done.

[Baler]

I personally have not found any data to show bandits (what i researched the most) being different the Era's you describe. This does not mean the data does not exist.

uhh, respectfully I'm not speaking about the npc bandits.
Pre-bandit plague, bandit plague and post-bandit plague are Eras, like Paineel era.

Swarm mother for example shows up during karana plague (bandit plague era).
In the lore the west karana bandits spread sickness which kicks off the karana plague.

---
They made many non-classic changes to the karanas to combat players from meta-gaming. They'll not admit this and I'm not asking them to. What I want is era accuracy not a custom server set in the classic-velious eras.

Pre-plague era karana is not easy to find information on. I firmly believe they're using a mix of modern eq, old bug reports and anti-meta gaming when they changed the level ranges, spawns and pathing.

I can understand why some would think the burden of proof falls on me but it doesn't. There is no public record for why these changes took place. It's not an appropriate way to treat the new players, avg players or veterans. It also doesn't make for an accurate emulation of classic everquest. Keeping your community in the dark doesn't help re-create classic everquest.

Falling back on the welp baler you better submit evidence is a scapegoat. I want answers.

There are some people who have this sick idea in their head that i'm trying to exploit or cheat or find easy exp or what ever stupid shit they can imagine. This can't be further from the truth. I want 1:1 Classic everquest. I don't give a shit about exp or items on this topic.

[Buellen]

Outside of time travel

I do not think your going to find a server with what you want.

I appreciate your quest for a server with "Era accuracy".

To some extent that is why we all play here I believe. This is the closest we have available to us.

May you succeed in your quest.

Salute

[BiG SiP]

sounds like you better submit evidence

[magnetaress]

You need video evidence directly from 99 coded in an old 99 video codec as well as copies of the live database from 1999 in triplicate and carbon copy

actually pretty good thing that the burdern of proof is pretty high otherwise we'd have worse than turned off quest exps

[Dolalin]

What do you feel isn't classic? I haven't been to the karanas since the changes but the zone dumps are known. E.g., here is northkarana from Nov/Dec 1999: