nerf of mage epic pet

[Goodest]

Telin: Adjusted the Magician's epic pet's melee damage and increased its proc chance.
still has 4 k life
still has DS
cast a little bit more... ya cast not proc....
hits for 67.... pussy shit
was 81...
you brought it in line with the level 57 - 60 pets it shouldn't be.

Epic mage pets on all of the other time locked server hits for 81 and flurries and enrages...

air staff focus air pet ..... hits for 68....

Thanks for making the mage epic pet usless...

[Hrothgar]

WTS Earth Staff 100k

[Ligma]

67 damage is classic. Mages have had a PoP upgraded pet since kunark.

[Fammaden]

Mod rod please.

[wagorf]

go cry a river, just sick with your coth job

[Bardp1999]

WTB CoTH to PoM

[Kaellaven]

I’ll give you 3k for that Earth Staff. :D

[Tunabros]

go summon mod rods or something

[Dolalin]

Mage air pets did not hit for that much in classic.

http://web.archive.org/web/20021020165135fw_/http://www.magecompendium.com/Pets/Pet_Statistics.htm

[Caball]

Appreciate you devs for correcting this OP pet, finally their reign of terror has come to an end. If Baton of Flame couldn’t keep its stats from the update shortly after p99 timeline ends, then mages should have to face the music and have their epic pets returned to their classic state. Pras project 1999 developers thank you for fixing this!

[Endorra]

air staff focus air pet ..... hits for 68....





Mage air pets did not hit for that much in classic.



Excellent points all around. The other mage pets should be nerfed so that the epic pet is, indeed, relatively epic.

[the_only_jake]

I feel really sad for the .05% of mages on p99 now...

[mycoolrausch]

Sounds like a nice clicky pet for an epic that takes about a month or so of effort by a well motivated mage to complete, similar to the majority of the other epics and all the other caster epics.

So I'm sure this means the magi staff drop rate was increased to near 50%

[Dolalin]

Excellent points all around. The other mage pets should be nerfed so that the epic pet is, indeed, relatively epic.

I'm pretty sure this is receiving attention.

[Zekayy]

Uhhh it’s an epic it’s supposed to be OP why nerf it? that is just silly

[Vaarsuvius]

Mage air pets did not hit for that much in classic.

http://web.archive.org/web/20021020165135fw_/http://www.magecompendium.com/Pets/Pet_Statistics.htm

I really doubt that link you provided is that reliable

Damage cap for greater Vocaration (57-60) pets is only 2 higher than Vocaration (51-54) ones... I don't think so... Nice try though

You might want to try reliable links and sources of information like the Mage tower

http://web.archive.org/web/20030607164136/http://forum.magecompendium.com/tower/viewtopic.php?t=3191


Let's all jump on the 'nerf this OP mages' band wagon, shall we?

[Evia]

The bottom line is that the epic pet should be as it was at the end of the velious timeline. Was the old version the classic pet? Or this new one? Idk but I’d guess Rog and Nil wouldn’t have made the change if it wasn’t classic.

[Caball]

Totally Evia. Looks like case is closed, mages must face the music and accept their fate as coth bots and rod whores. Anyone who got to use the OP epic pet should thank their lucky stars they had the chance to use such a disgustingly powerful out of era pet. Fantastic dev work, pack this one up on to the next thread!

[Dolalin]

I really doubt that link you provided is that reliable

Damage cap for greater Vocaration (57-60) pets is only 2 higher than Vocaration (51-54) ones... I don't think so... Nice try though

You might want to try reliable links and sources of information like the Mage tower

http://web.archive.org/web/20030607164136/http://forum.magecompendium.com/tower/viewtopic.php?t=3191


Let's all jump on the 'nerf this OP mages' band wagon, shall we?

Well that page from 2003 has the PoP era epic pet stats.

[Vaarsuvius]

Well that page from 2003 has the PoP era epic pet stats.

So?
Does the fact that this page probably dates from PoP and contains pieces of information about pets up to lvl 65 change the stats of classic to Velious era pets?

The Mage tower was the best source of information about mages the way the shamancrucible was for shm

But congrats to all the haters that thought mages were too powerful and needed their pets nerfed

[Vaarsuvius]

Totally Evia. Looks like case is closed, mages must face the music and accept their fate as coth bots and rod whores. Anyone who got to use the OP epic pet should thank their lucky stars they had the chance to use such a disgustingly powerful out of era pet. Fantastic dev work, pack this one up on to the next thread!

Wow, you sure know what mages and their pets were/ should be be like.
Epic pet on live was better than any 57-60 pet, was a wimp compared to any PoP pet and it did not fare very well even at PoI zone in. As soon as you were able to mem any PoP pet you'd say good bye to poor old epic pet and never use it again

[Nuggie]

No use in turning in the earth staff anymore, kinda looks like.

[Terrok]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Pet_Guide#Earth_Pet

is a focused earth pet now better then epic, minus the ds?

[Damarous]

So?
Does the fact that this page probably dates from PoP and contains pieces of information about pets up to lvl 65 change the stats of classic to Velious era pets?

The Mage tower was the best source of information about mages the way the shamancrucible was for shm

But congrats to all the haters that thought mages were too powerful and needed their pets nerfed

:confused::confused::confused:

Pretty sure the point is that your source shows the upgraded POP specs. Feel free to find the same info dated 2001 or earlier tho.

[Damarous]

Due to the fact that mage epic pet got a buff in PoP that is.

[Ripqozko]

What’s a mage epic

[Ligma]

Wow, you sure know what mages and their pets were/ should be be like.
Epic pet on live was better than any 57-60 pet, was a wimp compared to any PoP pet and it did not fare very well even at PoI zone in. As soon as you were able to mem any PoP pet you'd say good bye to poor old epic pet and never use it again

Epic was still more dps than PoP pets when the proc landed. Which was mostly applicable when farming lower level zones, but it still landed in T1 PoP zones. But it was the best pet for pet pulling since it was the right level and had innate run speed.

[Dolalin]

So?
Does the fact that this page probably dates from PoP and contains pieces of information about pets up to lvl 65 change the stats of classic to Velious era pets?

It does, because mage and necro pets all got a boost in 2002 / Luclin:


MAY 9, 2002

Addressed a balance issue with high end Magician and Necromancer pets by improving them. (Half of this change went live last night but was missed in the previous patch message.)

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020509.html


So your link has the stats of these pets post buff.

[Vaarsuvius]

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html

Nothing was done to buff pets between the moment epics were introduced and late 2003. I found this patch though, which is most probably the one you're referring to:


------------------------------
March 25, 2004
------------------------------

Headlines

-Refining some DX9 functionality.

-Some adjustments have been made to pets.

-Some general bug fixes.

-Added a new rogue discipline line, Assassins Strike. The tomes can be found in the East Commonlands and the
Plane of Knowledge.


DirectX 9
-The center of collision for all players
-We have made improvements to position processing which should alleviate some of the problems related to getting
stuck in geometry.
-Improved collision and movement when near overhangs.
-The auto-duck mechanism is now an user-enabled option. It can be set in the General tab of the options window.
This feature forces your character to duck automatically to get into small places. If set to off, you will need
to manually duck to enter those places. It is "on" by default.
-Warping of very small NPCs (e.g., giant rats in Qeynos) has been resolved.
-Rain now has visible weather.


Pets
60+ player pets have been improved in a number of ways. Most notably, the effects of pet foci will be more
dramatic as a player progresses with more powerful equipment. There have also been a number of inconsistencies
between different tiers of pet foci that have been fixed. All of the existing foci should never show a power
decrease in any aspect when upgrading from a lower tier foci to a higher tier foci. The most dramatic changes
in pet stats are in the following aspects:

Level - Most tiers of Foci will add one level to the pet.

Max HP - Most tiers of foci will add max hit points to the pet, some tiers are more dramatic than others and follow
a similar rate of progression to player characters as they gain equipment equivalent to the pet focus items.

Mitigation (AC, Agility) -- Most tiers of foci will add mitigation to the pet. Some tiers are more dramatic than
others and follow a similar rate of progression to player characters as they gain equipment equivalent to the pet
focus items.

Damage Output - Generally the pets did not receive a significant change in their damage output, although there are
certain pets that have had their max hit and offense increased.

Overall, the player pets have received a significant boost. There are instances where you will see no change in a
specific aspect of a specific pet. For example, the Rathe’’s Son pet summoned with Minion of Eternity has not received
an improvement in max hit points, but it has received a significant mitigation improvement.

These changes affect the pets summoned by the following spells:

Ward of Xegony
Child of Ro
Servant of Marr
Rathe’s Son
Legacy of Zek
Saryrn’s Companion
Child of Bertoxxulous
Spirit of Sorsha
Spirit of Arag

The most profound changes were made to the magician pets as they were most in need of improvement to maintain class
balance. Beastlord and necromancer pets also received upgrades, but not of the same magnitude.




You need to take into account the several tiers of pet focus items that affected 60+ pets and gave beefier pets than your regular Johny Magician w/o any focus item could ever summon

[Dolalin]

[
Nothing was done to buff pets between the moment epics were introduced and late 2003

I mean, you're just wrong.

The patch I meant was the one I linked.

Maybe just let this one go.

[Vaarsuvius]

I mean, you're just wrong.

The patch I meant was the one I linked.

Maybe just let this one go.

Except you linked some page, not a patch note if I'm not mistaken. Anyway, you win, congrats!

I'm fed up with people pointing fingers at other classes and whining about something they feel is OP and applauding when the nerf bat hits rhem

Pick a new class to nerf please, us mages have been shafted enough

[area]

it's funny how sometimes it's just word of mouth (posted on a forum) that gets stuff changed, and the only way given to defend against it is "patch notes" proving the negative. All the while everybody knowing for a fact that they changed things and most often left those changes out of any patch notes at all.

Just because somebody posted something in 2004 that old world pets were a certain way does not mean those were changed post p99 timeline. How about patch notes that prove those changes were made post p99 timeline instead?

[charmcitysking]

can we get more sticks by tree on west wall please

[Sunderfury]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298463

Read the first post in depth. No question at end of velious max hit was 67. Log file from in era and links to pet upgrade post velious.

[Caball]

Thanks for linking to that thread Sunderfury, evidence seems clear to me great work by Rygar. I did enjoy toward the end of the thread where Ilahn tried to say the epic pet was even more powerful and had a 280 BS is this era haha, made me chuckle!

[area]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298463

Read the first post in depth. No question at end of velious max hit was 67. Log file from in era and links to pet upgrade post velious.

Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with the Epic Pet nerf... just the shots called in this thread regarding nerfing non-epic pets.

:)

[Caball]

Except you linked some page, not a patch note if I'm not mistaken. Anyway, you win, congrats!

I'm fed up with people pointing fingers at other classes and whining about something they feel is OP and applauding when the nerf bat hits rhem

Pick a new class to nerf please, us mages have been shafted enough

Vaarsuvius, this isn’t a personal attack on the magician class like you seem to think it is. The goal here to is emulate the server as closely and accurately as possible to how it was in the original timeline. The devs and helpful contributors put a lot of work into researching how things were back then, and if they see enough evidence for something to be changed, they do it. Hope that explanation helps, sorry about your epic pet but it is still a viable pet and not worthless. Chin up bud!

[Phaezed-Reality]

if you really where around during live during these era's Mages where constantly shit on and nerfed. So this is very much so classic.

[Zekayy]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298463

Read the first post in depth. No question at end of velious max hit was 67. Log file from in era and links to pet upgrade post velious.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3207159&postcount=15

[putrid_plum]

Cry me a river

[kaizersoze]

now nerf monks, shamans and enchanters.

[Terrok]

earth pet with earth staff his for 72 and has 4k hps. so only thing they are missing is the DS, can you make mage epic like war epic so we can break it down to a better item, back to the earth staff?

[Croco]

The goal here to is emulate the server as closely and accurately as possible to how it was in the original timeline.

Is it though? I don't think anyone can honestly say that at this point. They have changed so many things to an unclassic state by now it's pretty absurd.

[Izmael]

Is it though? I don't think anyone can honestly say that at this point. They have changed so many things to an unclassic state by now it's pretty absurd.

Classic mechanics vs classic experience yadda yadda.

[unleashedd]

remove all charms. using a mob, intended to be taken down by a group, as a pet is an obvious exploit. also, put backstab timer same as loh/ht

[Croco]

Classic mechanics vs classic experience yadda yadda.

they have changed a TON of things that have nothing to do with recreating a classic experience, try again

[Ripqozko]

they have changed a TON of things that have nothing to do with recreating a classic experience, try again

I would just stop paying the subscription and quit

[raski]

we should do some "reeeeeesearch" and get warriors nerfed,far too long have SKs and pallys sat at the sideline wishing to tank AoW!

[Magerin]

I wonder when Rygor will work on doing research on the classes he plays...seems like he ignores monks but puts a ton of work into any and all other classes...im sure if he stumped upon anything that made monks better, he would be committed to making it classic until he found something that nerfs them big. I just see this guy chiming in on caster classes alot and not on his own....

Again, Id like to see Enchanter (mostly), monk (close second) and shamans all nerfed a bit more. I really dont remember charm being so reliable in classic (like on green it holds forever). When I played chanter, I hated it as my summoned pet died in 3 times and my charm lasted 20 to 50 seconds making it a mana sink.

[Danth]

remove all charms

If it were up to me I'd put steeply diminishing returns on charming the same monster over and over and call it a day.

Danth

[Hrothgar]

we should do some "reeeeeesearch" and get warriors nerfed,far too long have SKs and pallys sat at the sideline wishing to tank AoW!

precisely why i quit p99 and shelved a really really dope SK.

on live, i'm able to MT most of the t1 raid targets with my SK, and i'm not relegated to just be a sidelining "off-tank." It's more fun to play a game when you're needed.

[Gustoo]

Really though dude? SK and Pally shouldn't be better than warrior at everything besides DPS.

SK is really powerful and by far the most beloved hybrid that people don't denigrate for asking to be in a group.

[Hrothgar]

Really though dude? SK and Pally shouldn't be better than warrior at everything besides DPS.

SK is really powerful and by far the most beloved hybrid that people don't denigrate for asking to be in a group.

Thé min/max component of Warrior tanking makes even a gnome warrior preferable to, say, an Iksar SK on p99, which is more what I meant. It takes a lot more investment to be a solid SK than it does to be a solid warrior on p99 - and, outside of the very endgamest of raid mob encounters, SKs and Pallies should be able to step up to the plate far more than their current level of being asked/perceived.

Having a hybrid tank being able to regen over +100 hp in a fight per tick is OP, esp if a mob is slowed, but that will never be a raid meta that gains any traction.

[Damarous]

Thé min/max component of Warrior tanking makes even a gnome warrior preferable to, say, an Iksar SK on p99, which is more what I meant. It takes a lot more investment to be a solid SK than it does to be a solid warrior on p99 - and, outside of the very endgamest of raid mob encounters, SKs and Pallies should be able to step up to the plate far more than their current level of being asked/perceived.

Having a hybrid tank being able to regen over +100 hp in a fight per tick is OP, esp if a mob is slowed, but that will never be a raid meta that gains any traction.

As a Gnome warrior, I take offense to that. Gnome warriors are great sir!

[Hrothgar]

As a Gnome warrior, I take offense to that. Gnome warriors are great sir!

Didn’t say they weren’t great, but they need a lot of help in most cases - maybe not on an endgame saturated server, where you’re self clicking 90% haste at lvl 20 with a 30/40 2hb, but 100+ hp/tick regen is unreal. Nigh unbeatable for group content.

We’ve jumped the shark, tho. Mage epic pets should be epic. Rabble rabble.

[Damarous]

Didn’t say they weren’t great, but they need a lot of help in most cases - maybe not on an endgame saturated server, where you’re self clicking 90% haste at lvl 20 with a 30/40 2hb, but 100+ hp/tick regen is unreal. Nigh unbeatable for group content.

We’ve jumped the shark, tho. Mage epic pets should be epic. Rabble rabble.

Rabble Rabble

[Gustoo]

A lot of the best classes are not as needed in group scenarios when you have all the utility covered by specific classes.

Druid. Best class in game. Worst class in raid.

SK. Great tank. Less good than warrior for tanking. Not as good in raid.

It's the raid life, for sure.

[Ripqozko]

A lot of the best classes are not as needed in group scenarios when you have all the utility covered by specific classes.

Druid. Best class in game. Worst class in raid.

SK. Great tank. Less good than warrior for tanking. Not as good in raid.

It's the raid life, for sure.

Sk great pullers and train up in VP. Lmk last time one did that tho I'll wait.

[Hrothgar]

Sk great pullers and train up in VP. Lmk last time one did that tho I'll wait.

Most reliable FD in game, almost instant recast

[Jodo]

Yea... huge dkp chase and dream to have this item. Waste of time - complete waste of time to go after something that isn't elite. GG.

Octomonster - 53 green mage just retired

[Bristlebaner]

if you really where around during live during these era's Mages where constantly shit on and nerfed. So this is very much so classic.

I see many people advocate for changes based on what is logical. Would it be logical for an epic that is so hard to reward a pet that hits for 81? Sure. But that's not how this works.

The goal is classic. It's classic for mages to be sub-par unfortunately. I don't think anyone disagrees that if mage pets were a lot stronger they would be a more viable, balanced class. But that just isn't this timeline.

[Hrothgar]

Mage epics were nowhere NEAR as rare on live. Ffs, they were, like, mandatory, class-defining items.

[Fammaden]

Can I get a stack of food if you aren't afk?

[Geomance22]

Mage epics were nowhere NEAR as rare on live. Ffs, they were, like, mandatory, class-defining items.

earth staff dropped at same rate it wasnt just farmed by a tiny clique of spergs who bottleneck the entire server

[Blingy]

When epics were introduced the earth staff was a rare drop off Inny and only Inny. After awhile Magi P'Tasa started dropping it. When this happened there would be 2-3 groups in hate killing mobs. Male rev's were place holders.

First entry on Alla's referencing the earth staff (March 2000): https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=1597&p=14#m662

Then a month later (April 2000): https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=1597&p=13#m5261

March 18, 2001 patch: https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=1597&p=11#m98494021639205
Innoruuk has now been buffed to a Velious-style high level encounter. He hits for approx. 600, and no longer drops the loot table above (Vexthorne, Elemental Staff). His loot table has now been moved to his underlings, and drops new gear.

Here's an alla's post referencing moving it from Inny to P'Tasa around March 2001: https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=526&p=3#m98487969321674

and then somebody looting it from a male forsaken rev. May 2003 https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=526&p=2#m105318293789946

Additional notes from comments (Sept 20, 2000): https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=760&p=12#m96946808225214
The Earth Elemental staff used to drop off Innoruuk but now seems to drop off some other inhabitant of hate (or perhaps just someone who follows innoruuk). The Dirt of Underfoot would most likely now drop off Slix The Mighty (He says "Slix something or other") in The Hole. The broom and shovel quests are from solusek ro and are well documented.

Take this source with a grain of salt (Nov 2000): https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=760&p=7#m9748048691410
I was just in general chat till the servers went down for this latest patch and the GM who wrote the mage epic was there talking a little about it.....and a couple of comments he made were actually informative in a round about way :P Mages were hollering about Talenor not dropping the burning embers still or any of the other mobs we suspect and he noted that the quest isnt broken and that people are makeing some big assumptions about what drops the embers. He also stated that although Inny is the only one atm who drops the earth staff, in the near future, his minnions WILL be dropping it. In short, there is still hope for us yet...dont give up all :)

[adruidarkly]

earth staff dropped at same rate it wasnt just farmed by a tiny clique of spergs who bottleneck the entire server

the spergs were spread the fuk out but now they're the only type that would come back for nostalgia hits and are condensed on two servers

[Yajirobe Yajipants]

I leave for....8 years and this is what happens to my beloved epic pet? At least mages still have Bristlebane's Bundle & Monster Summoning.

[Zekayy]

Uhhh it’s an epic it’s supposed to be OP why nerf it? that is just silly

.

[Fammaden]

I need arrows please, thanks.

[charmcitysking]

can we get some mod rods dropped please, thanks