My proposition...

[SantagarBrax]

My proposition to keep this server competitive and take infractions out of the GM's hands:
1. AG/F choose to merge, split off, or be considered 1 entity for raid purposes.
2. Rotate Vulak, Doze, PoG , RW between the 2 or 3 entities. (Riot / AG/F) Barrier for Entry for other guilds.
3. All Guilds in this agreement understand that their rotation mobs are able to be Contested by smaller guilds (Casuals) under the current meta.
4. All arbitrations will be settled by an objective 3rd party, never going to GM's, utilizing a payment system of 1 item per week per raiding entity in the agreement paid to the Arbitrating person/guild, or any other system that works to maintain objectivity. Raid targets may be killed by the offending party, yet if found guilty, will forfeit their next rotated mob or 3 concessions on the target that was killed when the infraction occurred, whichever they prefer, all under current PNP and past raid precedent rules.
5. All other current meta remains the same. (City Leaders, etc)

Details can be ironed out, yet this addresses the main problems we have and gives the GM's what they want.

[Hisamori]

I propose we delete blue.

[Hrothgar]

I propose you start a pension fund for the GMs to police a “free” server.

[Baler]

There is still enough drama on blue to warrant solutions?
Consider Green

[Jauna]

There is still enough drama on blue to warrant solutions?
Consider Green

Kunark is soon
same shit will repeat

[Ravager]

Just alternate spawns as lockout/ffa every other spawn. If it spawns as a lockout mob and your guild kills it, you're locked out of killing it for 8 lockout spawns. You can kill any and as many ffa spawns you want. No CSR for anything. Whoever gets the exp gets the loot. The big 3 guilds can shit on each other all they want and the other guilds can deal with the 5 leftover lockout spawns as they see fit. They could even build dps snipe teams to steal some ffa for the more hardcore members. No GM involvement for any of it and very simple rules to follow. You're welcome.

[Fammaden]

Just alternate spawns as lockout/ffa every other spawn. If it spawns as a lockout mob and your guild kills it, you're locked out of killing it for 8 lockout spawns. You can kill any and as many ffa spawns you want. No CSR for anything. Whoever gets the exp gets the loot. The big 3 guilds can shit on each other all they want and the other guilds can deal with the 5 leftover lockout spawns as they see fit. They could even build dps snipe teams to steal some ffa for the more hardcore members. No GM involvement for any of it and very simple rules to follow. You're welcome.

Your numbers probably need a lot of tweaking but something like this would not be that bad.

In before *competitions welfareloot handouts instancing theskyisfalling*

[kaizersoze]

Tunare
If you can clear PoG / Tunare in under 8 hours, you get a tuna slot. Guilds that raid together on the reg count as one slot. Guilds that want separate slots have to prove they can do the clear in the allotted time and kill the tuna. Failure to prove capability does not mean your old allies must take you back, but you can join in the joint / server raid which I propose be at the end of every rotation - chances for guilds to attempt solo completion on request before rotation begins anew

Ring War
If you can clear RW, you get a RW slot, fail 2 RWs, you're out for a month. Same day pop kill. If you wish to pass on it, goes to the next guild in rotation. Not sure on a metric to measure how one is able to complete RW - being able to kill vindi seems like a low barrier of entry, but it is the proposed one by some people.

Sleepr's Tomb
Just give one guild ST for a week. 6 golems a week is plenty and nobody loses their minds tracking all day every day because they very easily become 24/7 windows. Guilds with enough keyed members viable for kills entered.

TOV
1 hour lockout on FTE in TOV - if you footrace, you're liable for any trains. If you coth / clear, you're liable for any trains. If you don't engage dwagon within time-limit, concede 2 for wasting people's time.

Special Vulak addition to TOV
If the last popped blocker is engaged, a five minute grace period is given before anyone can race / clear for Vulak. Raid force must be at entrance before it begins. Gives the people who killed the last blocker plenty of time to get thier loot and get out before they make their rush to big daddy.

Kael / VP /Dain / Yeli
lLeave the same, fine as is. Hesitant about unlimited racers because it gets dicier to prove shenanigans with a mob of people in play. Smoller numbers = easier accountability.

Gore /Sev / Talendor / Kelorek Dar / VS / Trakanon...Basically Kunark raids outside of VP
Fine as they are.

Cazic Thule
Maybe throw in rotation. People running around, stealing other people's kites to control mob counts, the ease of trains, it's kind of nuts. Maybe whoever kills the most mini bosses gets CT if we want to make it competitive. In the case of a tie - whoever kills Dracoliche perhaps?

Hard limit one petition per week allowed and harsher penalties for those in the wrong
The goal is to limit petitions, yes? Instead of making 20 page documents over single incident, however minor it may be, provide a compilation of transgressions and be as concise as possible. Two week complete raid suspension for guilds found guilty, and a two week suspension for the accounts in question for said actions. Personal accountability needs to be paramount. Ideally this is reviewed before the next cycle begins and applies to rotations. Fuck up badly enough to screw over other people's raids? Miss your rotation slots that week. Single incident petitions kept to the extreme minimum, essentially something that wiped your raid during / just before an encounter. Two week total raid suspension for wasting GMs time if it isn't a worthy petition. EZPZ.

Velketor and Lord Bob
Just dont disrupt the zone pulling it to zone in. Unless literally nobody else is in the zone. Otherwise fine as is.

Nagafen and Vox
Same rules as Velk and bob. Dont disrupt the zone with trains and clear any mobs you agro.

Things to be more clearly defined
Stalls and kites. Lots of discrepancy here it seems like.

[Psyborg]

Tunare
If you can clear PoG / Tunare in under 8 hours, you get a tuna slot. Guilds that raid together on the reg count as one slot. Guilds that want separate slots have to prove they can do the clear in the allotted time and kill the tuna. Failure to prove capability does not mean your old allies must take you back, but you can join in the joint / server raid which I propose be at the end of every rotation - chances for guilds to attempt solo completion on request before rotation begins anew

Ring War
If you can clear RW, you get a RW slot, fail 2 RWs, you're out for a month. Same day pop kill. If you wish to pass on it, goes to the next guild in rotation. Not sure on a metric to measure how one is able to complete RW - being able to kill vindi seems like a low barrier of entry, but it is the proposed one by some people.

Sleepr's Tomb
Just give one guild ST for a week. 6 golems a week is plenty and nobody loses their minds tracking all day every day because they very easily become 24/7 windows. Guilds with enough keyed members viable for kills entered.

TOV
1 hour lockout on FTE in TOV - if you footrace, you're liable for any trains. If you coth / clear, you're liable for any trains. If you don't engage dwagon within time-limit, concede 2 for wasting people's time.

Special Vulak addition to TOV
If the last popped blocker is engaged, a five minute grace period is given before anyone can race / clear for Vulak. Raid force must be at entrance before it begins. Gives the people who killed the last blocker plenty of time to get thier loot and get out before they make their rush to big daddy.

Kael / VP /Dain / Yeli
lLeave the same, fine as is. Hesitant about unlimited racers because it gets dicier to prove shenanigans with a mob of people in play. Smoller numbers = easier accountability.

Gore /Sev / Talendor / Kelorek Dar / VS / Trakanon...Basically Kunark raids outside of VP
Fine as they are.

Cazic Thule
Maybe throw in rotation. People running around, stealing other people's kites to control mob counts, the ease of trains, it's kind of nuts. Maybe whoever kills the most mini bosses gets CT if we want to make it competitive. In the case of a tie - whoever kills Dracoliche perhaps?

Hard limit one petition per week allowed and harsher penalties for those in the wrong
The goal is to limit petitions, yes? Instead of making 20 page documents over single incident, however minor it may be, provide a compilation of transgressions and be as concise as possible. Two week complete raid suspension for guilds found guilty, and a two week suspension for the accounts in question for said actions. Personal accountability needs to be paramount. Ideally this is reviewed before the next cycle begins and applies to rotations. Fuck up badly enough to screw over other people's raids? Miss your rotation slots that week. Single incident petitions kept to the extreme minimum, essentially something that wiped your raid during / just before an encounter. Two week total raid suspension for wasting GMs time if it isn't a worthy petition. EZPZ.

Velketor and Lord Bob
Just dont disrupt the zone pulling it to zone in. Unless literally nobody else is in the zone. Otherwise fine as is.

Nagafen and Vox
Same rules as Velk and bob. Dont disrupt the zone with trains and clear any mobs you agro.

Things to be more clearly defined
Stalls and kites. Lots of discrepancy here it seems like.


You and I disagree with a lot on these forums, but we agree on virtually everything here. I would eliminate stalls with an FTE lockout. Pulling into camp is almost never an issue outside of shitty pathing so eliminate that altogether with lockouts. I also disagree with forcing guilds that combine regularly to share the same slots on rotated mobs like Tunare, though this won't be much of an issue with FTE lockouts proposed. This new meta won't require anywhere near the manpower that the old one does.

[kaizersoze]

You and I disagree with a lot on these forums, but we agree on virtually everything here. I would eliminate stalls with an FTE lockout. Pulling into camp is almost never an issue outside of shitty pathing so eliminate that altogether with lockouts. I also disagree with forcing guilds that combine regularly to share the same slots on rotated mobs like Tunare, though this won't be much of an issue with FTE lockouts proposed. This new meta won't require anywhere near the manpower that the old one does.

The main concern with allied guilds teaming and both getting tuna rotations of their own is the possibility of double dipping. Riot could for example splinter into 3-4 guilds that all worked together and get 3-4 more Tunare slots. If a stipulation was added that if they got their raid slot, no loot can be obtained by their ally guild in the other's rotation slot and it was completed on thier own, I'd personally be able to agree to that. I'm not leadership in any of the guilds in question though. Just someone who wants this done.

[Fammaden]

The main concern with allied guilds teaming and both getting tuna rotations of their own is the possibility of double dipping. Riot could for example splinter into 3-4 guilds that all worked together and get 3-4 more Tunare slots. If a stipulation was added that if they got their raid slot, no loot can be obtained by their ally guild in the other's rotation slot and it was completed on thier own, I'd personally be able to agree to that. I'm not leadership in any of the guilds in question though. Just someone who wants this done.

The constant concerns with strategic splintering on this server are absurd. Riot currently clears PoG with assembly line speed and efficiency due to large numbers. No one wants to split into 3 and 4 guilds that will all take all day to clear just for more shots at Tunare loot.

Even if they did it situations like that always devolve into A/B/C/D teams of declining ability, and at the very least C/D are going to end up failing which blows the whole plan into dust. Riot isn't stupid enough to actually do that, and they aren't bringing 400+ to every raid.

IMO if you don't like alliances for Tunare then you start with AG/R/F as the rotational guilds and they can bring in allies, but ONLY if the allied guild isn't another rotation guild. Force Freedom to get nice with TSS or someone, or clear it themselves, or lose their slot. Your idea of saying the ally guild can't get loot is far too difficult to track and enforce, we are trying to make less work for the GM's here not more.

[Psyborg]

The main concern with allied guilds teaming and both getting tuna rotations of their own is the possibility of double dipping. Riot could for example splinter into 3-4 guilds that all worked together and get 3-4 more Tunare slots. If a stipulation was added that if they got their raid slot, no loot can be obtained by their ally guild in the other's rotation slot and it was completed on thier own, I'd personally be able to agree to that. I'm not leadership in any of the guilds in question though. Just someone who wants this done.

I agree that guilds should not be allowed to teamup for kills unless your slot is specifically an alliance slot. Freedom wants a slot of our own for Tunare and RW.

Just convince your leadership to go along with your plan. Right now all they've offered up is a full rotation in UN which unfortunately isn't getting us anywhere.

[Ravager]

Your numbers probably need a lot of tweaking but something like this would not be that bad.

In before *competitions welfareloot handouts instancing theskyisfalling*
Probably. C/R/FFA wasn't the worst ever, but trying to give everyone their own sandbox on a single server wasn't optimal. Getting rid of C and including everyone in the R seems more democratic. Didn't do the math, but with a Fermi calculation I do think the 8 lockout is strictly worse for casual guilds than the old C/R/FFA in terms of rotatable mobs, but if there's no CSR on any raid mob, it opens the field for them that much more too.

[Ghost of Starman]

How about you don't have to read a tome of stupid rules for specific mobs and stuff is just rotated like grown adults?

[Fammaden]

Well the simplest approach to have a sort of soft rotation and still maintain some semblance of competition would be bag limits. Which have the benefit of the GM's previously showing interest in seeing it happen.

But you try bringing that up with a lot of the edge cases with outsized voices in the endgame and you'd think you just tried to cancel their birthdays.

[Zoggren]

My proposition to keep this server competitive and take infractions out of the GM's hands:
1. Riot chooses to split back into Core / Paradigm Shift
2. Rotate Vulak, Doze, PoG , RW between the 2 or 3 entities. Barrier for Entry for other guilds.
3. All Guilds in this agreement understand that their rotation mobs are able to be Contested by smaller guilds (Casuals) under the current meta.
4. All arbitrations will be settled by an subjective 3rd party, never going to GM's, utilizing a payment system of 1 item per week per raiding entity in the agreement paid to the Arbitrating person/guild, or any other system that works to maintain objectivity. Raid targets may be killed by the offending party, yet if found guilty, will forfeit their next rotated mob or 3 concessions on the target that was killed when the infraction occurred, whichever they prefer, all under current PNP and past raid precedent rules.
5. All other current meta remains the same. (City Leaders, etc)

Details can be ironed out, yet this addresses the main problems we have and gives the GM's what they want.

I can dig.

[Zoggren]

To be honest past raid precedent rules seems like a fuzzy term that is weaponized to try and claim some sort of higher ground to petition in the first place. When the meta changes precedents need to be reset to fit the current state of game play, which is what is supposed to be happening right now.

[matticas]

I propose they unroot. It's been a failure.

[shuklak]

the simple answer is to make these mobs so difficult it takes everyone working together to defeat them.

M

[roks1]

Simple (or complex behind the wheels, i don't program this shit..)

Tie every raid mob to a secret spawn timer in addition to it's current spawn time.

Mob A (7 days with variance)
Mob B (7 days with variance)

okay nothing new here, now add

Mob A (7 days with variance) (has a % chance to spawn mob B .... or C or D at the same time it spawns.. think plane of fear repop)

So mob B has a chance to spawn early (unpredictably) with the spawn of a similar high value monster. This makes people keep their trackers up, but where? There's where the fun is added on top of more spawns.

So let's say cazic pops and yelinak wasnt due for 4 days
but the secret hidden small % chance to spawn hit lucky 7 and yelinak spawns 4 days early at the same time as Cazic.

Now the guilds racing for Cazic (lets be honest, knitting sweaters watching the discord / login screen for text messages) might learn Yelinak is up too and race for it, or since it was completely unexpected, a complete wild card guild might find themselves with a chance at Yelinak because they happened to track it while 300 other raiders are rushing into plane of fear in a wild frenzy.

Now the mobs tied together by the new simultaneous spawn variable can be random, or by tier or whatever, but wouldn't it be nice to have a raid solution or bandaid thats positive for everyone aka, more mobs, more surprises and more rookies getting to step up to the plate?


Think about it -- its unique, its fresh, and it's completely unpredictable if done right.

Be a hitter babe.

[Penish]

It's like not a single person here has come to the realization that the server's capacity has reached its max with HIGH LEVEL CHARACTORS. Why don't we figure out a solution for that, it's only going to become more and more inflated with bloated head cases who hit max level and are expecting to raid.

(This is the only real problem that exists)

[roks1]

Simple (or complex behind the wheels, i don't program this shit..)

Tie every raid mob to a secret spawn timer in addition to it's current spawn time.

Mob A (7 days with variance)
Mob B (7 days with variance)

okay nothing new here, now add

Mob A (7 days with variance) (has a % chance to spawn mob B .... or C or D at the same time it spawns.. think plane of fear repop)

So mob B has a chance to spawn early (unpredictably) with the spawn of a similar high value monster. This makes people keep their trackers up, but where? There's where the fun is added on top of more spawns.

So let's say cazic pops and yelinak wasnt due for 4 days
but the secret hidden small % chance to spawn hit lucky 7 and yelinak spawns 4 days early at the same time as Cazic.

Now the guilds racing for Cazic (lets be honest, knitting sweaters watching the discord / login screen for text messages) might learn Yelinak is up too and race for it, or since it was completely unexpected, a complete wild card guild might find themselves with a chance at Yelinak because they happened to track it while 300 other raiders are rushing into plane of fear in a wild frenzy.

Now the mobs tied together by the new simultaneous spawn variable can be random, or by tier or whatever, but wouldn't it be nice to have a raid solution or bandaid thats positive for everyone aka, more mobs, more surprises and more rookies getting to step up to the plate?


Think about it -- its unique, its fresh, and it's completely unpredictable if done right.

Be a hitter babe.

for page 2, DO IT

[roks1]

Simple (or complex behind the wheels, i don't program this shit..)

Tie every raid mob to a secret spawn timer in addition to it's current spawn time.

Mob A (7 days with variance)
Mob B (7 days with variance)

okay nothing new here, now add

Mob A (7 days with variance) (has a % chance to spawn mob B .... or C or D at the same time it spawns.. think plane of fear repop)

So mob B has a chance to spawn early (unpredictably) with the spawn of a similar high value monster. This makes people keep their trackers up, but where? There's where the fun is added on top of more spawns.

So let's say cazic pops and yelinak wasnt due for 4 days
but the secret hidden small % chance to spawn hit lucky 7 and yelinak spawns 4 days early at the same time as Cazic.

Now the guilds racing for Cazic (lets be honest, knitting sweaters watching the discord / login screen for text messages) might learn Yelinak is up too and race for it, or since it was completely unexpected, a complete wild card guild might find themselves with a chance at Yelinak because they happened to track it while 300 other raiders are rushing into plane of fear in a wild frenzy.

Now the mobs tied together by the new simultaneous spawn variable can be random, or by tier or whatever, but wouldn't it be nice to have a raid solution or bandaid thats positive for everyone aka, more mobs, more surprises and more rookies getting to step up to the plate?


Think about it -- its unique, its fresh, and it's completely unpredictable if done right.

Be a hitter babe.

do it

[adruidarkly]

It's like not a single person here has come to the realization that the server's capacity has reached its max with HIGH LEVEL CHARACTORS. Why don't we figure out a solution for that, it's only going to become more and more inflated with bloated head cases who hit max level and are expecting to raid.

(This is the only real problem that exists)

^----------------------------------------- yes -----------------------------------------^

[Ravager]

It's like not a single person here has come to the realization that the server's capacity has reached its max with HIGH LEVEL CHARACTORS. Why don't we figure out a solution for that, it's only going to become more and more inflated with bloated head cases who hit max level and are expecting to raid.

(This is the only real problem that exists)
Just wait until they rollover Green.

[Hrothgar]

Dude the whole UN shitshow really is telling. I hope you fuckwads are buying the GMs really nice gift baskets for all they do, in dealing with all of this absolutely disgraceful nonsense.