Why do I do this to myself.....

[Tokum-6n0m3]

So i posted this as a comment on another thread but it was way off topic for the thread so I assume it'll get ignored and I was looking forward to opinions on it (I assume most will be negative, which is why I chose RnF to post it under)

Let me have it yall~~~

I still dont understand why its so hard to commit to a rotation that makes everyone happy.

You put all of ToV on Rotation similar to how we had on Emarr

You have to Kill Sontalak to be put on rotation, if you are on rotation already you cannot kill Sont as to leave him there for guilds to "apply" guilds who have already demonstrated an ability to kill most the dragons in ToV solo would automatically be put onto this rotation

When a dragon spawns the guild who has the North rotation that week has 24hrs (you can shorten this timer if you want to limit the spread of spawns) to kill said dragon or it becomes open FTE

The guild who had North rotation the week before will have the West and Doze rotation the week after.

In the name of competition you leave 1 week on each rotation cycle to be a pure FTE week, and Doze and the West dragons FTE the following week to keep the cycle going

All city leaders, gods, VP and AoW would remain normal FTE

This was roughly the agreement that took place for a short time on Emarr and for the most part worked for ToV. Ofcourse you would have to figure out a system for Earthquakes (maybe make them full FTE and the current rotation guild gets bumped back a week, they could possibly even get extra mobs from this to lessen the pain of the wait extension)

If you added agreed upon race criteria for the rest of the targets you could possibly even do away with Earthquakes and Variances making it far easier for Staff and Guilds to schedule raids and kills (I would still keep Earthquakes personally as a way to stop the spread of spawns being too drawn out, but variances could go imho)

Tho this wouldnt clean up the entire raid scene it would greatly reduce the number of petitions and disagreements if it was followed, it would also allow for other lesser guilds to gear up and participate in more FTE encounters as true competition.

I always hear people saying that rotations prevent competition but this would allow not only competition to continue on all fronts, but possibly even add more competition on City Leaders AoW etc while drastically improving the overall raid scene and "fairness" to lesser guilds and guilds that prefer to do things with smaller numbers

Im sure this will go over like a lead life preserver and it surely has holes that need to be addressed but overall something like this I can only see as being a good thing for the server as a whole

[Tokum-6n0m3]

Possibly even make Earthquakes a planned thing at the end of each rotation cycle? Making each earthquake be the FTE slot, ofcourse this would require staff to agree (which probably isnt a thing) but I could only see this making their jobs easier and at the very least manageable.... they would know the days that things would be hectic and could be there to monitor it in real time limiting the need for petitions at all *shrug

[Tokum-6n0m3]

Ofcourse there would still be the petitions from the other FTE mobs etc, but by just rotationing ToV you would drastically reduce it I imagine....and many of the lesser guilds would most likely be content just having a shot at the ToV mobs and not getting into the drama of the rest of the FTE races

[Hotel]

Cool suggestion thanks for sharing

as far as im aware the current idea that's gaining most momentum among leadership is bag limits

[Fammaden]

Can't see how bag limits change much of anything at all. Neither Riot nor AG/F at this point are really bagging a disproportionate amount of any single mob, except maybe AoW and that's really only recently that Riot took back over. Every cycle where no one's bag limit locked (most of the time) will be the same confusing mess.

I'd hope the GM's say go back to the drawing board with any half ass attempt that doesn't address the root problems, or simply suspend again immediately when they see it failing.

[Tokum-6n0m3]

Can't see how bag limits change much of anything at all. Neither Riot nor AG/F at this point are really bagging a disproportionate amount of any single mob, except maybe AoW and that's really only recently that Riot took back over. Every cycle where no one's bag limit locked (most of the time) will be the same confusing mess.

I'd hope the GM's say go back to the drawing board with any half ass attempt that doesn't address the root problems, or simply suspend again immediately when they see it failing.

Also the issue with bag limits is they'll be bag limits for those 3 specific guilds, what about lesser guilds that have shown the ability and interest in killing higher end content but either dont have the numbers or desire to participate in the drama of those other guilds.....if the main goal of this is to improve the raid scene on p99....those guilds should be considered as well, while also preserving the competitive spirit that many of those 3 guilds do enjoy.....I feel my suggestion atleast gives a path to that...

[Tokum-6n0m3]

I will also admit that as a member of a lesser guild, my opinion in the above comment is biased towards my own desires

[Tokum-6n0m3]

It has been brought to my attention that Sont might not be the best "gatekeeper" on p99, so Im open to suggestions of alternatives to that.........

One person mentioned Klandi to me, but then I think youd have to make a rule where hes left up for 24hrs before becoming FTE since people will still want the neck

[Hotel]

rotating tov would be cool

keeping something like doze competitive however would be a good compromise for neckbeards

i do think vyemm should be the gatekeeper mob, don't want a ntov slot wasted on a guild that isn't gonna down vulak

[Tokum-6n0m3]

rotating tov would be cool

keeping something like doze competitive however would be a good compromise for neckbeards

i do think vyemm should be the gatekeeper mob, don't want a ntov slot wasted on a guild that isn't gonna down vulak


The issue with using an actual North dragon as the gatekeeper is getting ppl to agree to leave them up for an extended period so the other guilds have a chance to down him.

Also if people cant down Vulak during their slot it would become open FTE within 8-12 or 24hrs depending on what was agreed upon....and eventually as those guilds geared out theyd also eventually be able to down him....theoretically

[Tokum-6n0m3]

Id be ok with Doze staying competitive

[Fammaden]

As I recall on my old server back in the day (Saryrn) the gatekeeper to earn an NToV rotation slot was Aary. Which is...literally the gatekeeper to the inner ring. Vyemm sounds harsh as shit but I see your point.

I disagree on keeping Doze competitive though, its second only to Vulak as the biggest mess in NToV, which is to say the biggest mess in the entire raid game. I'm guessing the numbers of petitions would support this. Honestly on Doze I'd say Kittens gets a slot right away. Doze is not hard, what's hard is training the entire bunch of shit around within five seconds of spawn better and faster than the other guys.

INB4 "omg welfare doze tears EQ ruined".

[Phenyo]

In a diabetic coma I envisioned the perfect solution. It's kinda out there but what if instead of static mobs the dragons could actually move?

[Hotel]

As I recall on my old server back in the day (Saryrn) the gatekeeper to earn an NToV rotation slot was Aary. Which is...literally the gatekeeper to the inner ring. Vyemm sounds harsh as shit but I see your point.

I disagree on keeping Doze competitive though, its second only to Vulak as the biggest mess in NToV, which is to say the biggest mess in the entire raid game. I'm guessing the numbers of petitions would support this. Honestly on Doze I'd say Kittens gets a slot right away. Doze is not hard, what's hard is training the entire bunch of shit around within five seconds of spawn better and faster than the other guys.

INB4 "omg welfare doze tears EQ ruined".

rooted dragons already ruined tov, this aint about that

if you're really concerned about trains, making aary the gatekeeper mob ensures that vulak shenanigans will be happening at a consistent rate - if the goal is to truly make that experience better vyemm is the only mob that makes sense

[Fammaden]

Yes I'm sure training the fuck out of each other at the zone in and hub instead of at spawn points is the answer, thank you.

[Tokum-6n0m3]

As I recall on my old server back in the day (Saryrn) the gatekeeper to earn an NToV rotation slot was Aary. Which is...literally the gatekeeper to the inner ring. Vyemm sounds harsh as shit but I see your point.

I disagree on keeping Doze competitive though, its second only to Vulak as the biggest mess in NToV, which is to say the biggest mess in the entire raid game. I'm guessing the numbers of petitions would support this. Honestly on Doze I'd say Kittens gets a slot right away. Doze is not hard, what's hard is training the entire bunch of shit around within five seconds of spawn better and faster than the other guys.

INB4 "omg welfare doze tears EQ ruined".

The issue with Aary is his location, and difficulty, hes not super hard.....and leaving him up for first clear to allow "applicants" time to kill him is alil inconvenient for guilds that might already have coth mages parked at Triplets etc

[Fammaden]

To Phenyo ^

[Fammaden]

The issue with Aary is his location, and difficulty, hes not super hard.....and leaving him up for first clear to allow "applicants" time to kill him is alil inconvenient for guilds that might already have coth mages parked at Triplets etc

I've always been confused that they didn't disable coth in ToV when the rooted the dragons too.

[Hotel]

Yes I'm sure training the fuck out of each other at the zone in and hub instead of at spawn points is the answer, thank you.

yes i hated when my guild would get trained in hub???

tov zone in trains happened less frequently than tov trains currently

look at what rooted dragons resulted in, one guild monopolizing every mob and when another zerg matches them - shit shows like no other commence (not a fault of the guilds, fault of the mechanics)

rooted dragons are an unfun and uncompetitive mechanic and has made tov basically unplayable

[charmcitysking]

didn't read

[Hrothgar]

It really is amazing how far people will go to rationalize their fear of instancing, which is really just a fear of having another elf with the same pixel outfit you have on in the Free wifi zone outside the Starbucks.

Look at that Wailing text wall.

[Fammaden]

It really is amazing how far people will go to rationalize their fear of instancing, which is really just a fear of having another elf with the same pixel outfit you have on in the Free wifi zone outside the Starbucks.

Look at that Wailing text wall.

If that's anyone's motivation it doesn't even make sense anyway. Instancing would mean every guild gets a Vulak every week. Rotating Vulak means there's still only one Vulak per cycle/quake so the influx of loot doesn't change. You still have to compete with your DKP against the rest of the guild and half the time people dump everything they have and promptly quit the game anyway so its as if the loot doesn't even exist. Calling rotations "instancing" is absurd.

The problem as mentioned right at the beginning are all the people who insist that non-instanced means you have to be adversarial. This game isn't competitive its cooperative, it always has been. That's why they eventually moved away from open world spawns to instanced raiding and why EQ PvP was never even half as popular as PvE.

Most people just like getting together with their group/raid/guild and killing shit, not fighting over it. The game design offers very little functionality to enjoy it by competing, any indications otherwise are just issues of overcrowding that was exacerbated by the tech limitations of the time and lack of foresight for the game/genre's popularity.

[Hrothgar]

Not calling rotations “instancing,” I’m calling rotations the most annoying mental gymnastics imaginable to deny other people (who promptly quit the game, as you said) Pixels that are old enough to get a drink at the bar.

Who fuggin cares if 10 people have a Palladius’? Hell, who cares if 1,000 people do? This content is already trivial and has been for 6 years.

[Hotel]

Not calling rotations “instancing,” I’m calling rotations the most annoying mental gymnastics imaginable to deny other people (who promptly quit the game, as you said) Pixels that are old enough to get a drink at the bar.

Who fuggin cares if 10 people have a Palladius’? Hell, who cares if 1,000 people do? This content is already trivial and has been for 6 years.

last time these guilds were raid suspended the entire server couldn't kill vyemm

not saying it's not trivial but it is what it is

people like having things other people don't, why is that a hard concept to understand

[Hrothgar]

The entire server couldn’t do it because, out of a population of 300 raid viable players, all 300 are in those guilds. 404: does not compute - that’s like saying “Last time the NBA was suspended, all the high school basketball teams couldn’t pull in the ad revenue.”

My point is: hella people already have these pixels. You are not unique and different. They’ve been around for, going on, 3x as long as the expansion lasted itself... when more and better pixels dropped in a new environment and created new styles of play and player conduct.

Get a grip, guys. It’s essentially vying for who beat Mario with the most stars at this point, only instead of turning the console off, you’re trying to justify these absurd behaviors on the player-side.

[Ripqozko]

The entire server couldn’t do it because, out of a population of 300 raid viable players, all 300 are in those guilds. 404: does not compute - that’s like saying “Last time the NBA was suspended, all the high school basketball teams couldn’t pull in the ad revenue.”

My point is: hella people already have these pixels. You are not unique and different. They’ve been around for, going on, 3x as long as the expansion lasted itself... when more and better pixels dropped in a new environment and created new styles of play and player conduct.

Get a grip, guys. It’s essentially vying for who beat Mario with the most stars at this point, only instead of turning the console off, you’re trying to justify these absurd behaviors on the player-side.

Sorry you don't got warder loot

[Hrothgar]

I did, it was on my bazaar mule and promptly sold for probably 25k, because the shit became garbage like 600 days after it was gotten?

What are we now on? Day 1,800 of you nerds using that tired suppository of a line?

[feniin]

Sorry you don't got warder loot

Warder loot drops weekly on TAKP.

[Nexii]

I'm not afraid of instancing because the makers of this project will never implement it. It goes against the project directives - classic EQ content.

In the same vein rotations will never be enforced. Policing a competitive raid scene is too much GM effort. Policing who gets to be in the rotation and who gets dropped is even more GM effort and also against the project directives.

[Hrothgar]

I'm not afraid of instancing because the makers of this project will never implement it. It goes against the project directives - classic EQ content.

In the same vein rotations will never be enforced. Policing a competitive raid scene is too much GM effort. Policing who gets to be in the rotation and who gets dropped is even more GM effort and also against the project directives.

You say this as if the GMs aren’t just sitting behind the mirrored glass laughing at what they’ve created.

Classic EQ was toxic af, that’s why it evolved. Literal babies died because figurative babies shoved them in closets to catch a batphone; that’s a real Classic EQ story.

[feniin]

You say this as if the GMs aren’t just sitting behind the mirrored glass laughing at what they’ve created.

Classic EQ was toxic af, that’s why it evolved. Literal babies died because figurative babies shoved them in closets to catch a batphone; that’s a real Classic EQ story.

Spittin' hot fire truths.

[reznor_]

Classic EQ was toxic af, that’s why it evolved. Literal babies died because figurative babies shoved them in closets to catch a batphone; that’s a real Classic EQ story.

If I'm doing good in the game I'm doing good in real life!

[kaizersoze]

If I'm doing good in the game I'm doing good in real life!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y42pCCqDUk

Im thriving