Let Us See the Blue UN

[Fammaden]

I do apologize to the general member base for being caught up in all of this, it’s not your fault but something has to give.

As a "general member" (AKA casual warmbody pixelwelfare SCUM), I've always wondered why we can't observe the UN. As it stands you get a trickle of info from your guild leaders/officers which of course tends to be in support of why YOU are right and < Other Guild > are evil and insane.

During this time of negotiations, allow all general members to decide for themselves who is being unreasonable and who is actually trying to generate change in a positive direction.

[titanshub]

Bump.

[malkavviaa]

Allow full read access, lock posting/voice ability to the officers/RL already there if you don't want huge amounts of spam. Not hard.

[Endonde]

Trust me you don't want to read UN, it's like RnF but without the funny bits.

[Fammaden]

Trust me you don't want to read UN, it's like RnF but without the funny bits.

I'm actually well aware from having seen the clusterfuck that is the open green UN discord, but I think a lot of "general members" around here might benefit from having their eyes opened too.

I don't think its a perfect solution to anything but it at least adds a modicum of accountability to the way the guilds are talking to each other about this situation.

[Henlolizar]

I concur. All we are privy to are snippets and vague allusions to UN conversations amid 100 pages of absolutely bullshit in RnF. It would increase transparency and accountability all around and maybe improve the level of discourse.

[Endonde]

I mean most guilds (at least the three recently banned) have pre conceived notions of each other and no amount of transparency is going to change that.

90% of what happens in UN already is just posturing and grandstanding trying to convince the GM's your guild has the moral high ground. Adding more onlookers only adds to that problem.

[Dreenk317]

I mean most guilds (at least the three recently banned) have pre conceived notions of each other and no amount of transparency is going to change that.

90% of what happens in UN already is just posturing and grandstanding trying to convince the GM's your guild has the moral high ground. Adding more onlookers only adds to that problem.

As a member of one of the guilds with pre conceived notions of eachother..... I fully agree with you about that, they exist, they are pre conceived. And they are fed by guild leadership. Often, and with great gusto. Officers will post snippets of another guilds rep saying something stupid in the UN. And on their discord be like, "LOOK they are ssssoooooooo stupid omfg look and poke fun!!". It helps nothing

[Tokum-6n0m3]

I still dont understand why its so hard to commit to a rotation that makes everyone happy.

You put all of ToV on Rotation similar to how we had on Emarr

You have to Kill Sontalak to be put on rotation, if you are on rotation already you cannot kill Sont as to leave him there for guilds to "apply" guilds who have already demonstrated an ability to kill most the dragons in ToV solo would automatically be put onto this rotation

When a dragon spawns the guild who has the North rotation that week has 24hrs (you can shorten this timer if you want to limit the spread of spawns) to kill said dragon or it becomes open FTE

The guild who had North rotation the week before will have the West and Doze rotation the week after.

In the name of competition you leave 1 week on each rotation cycle to be a pure FTE week, and Doze and the West dragons FTE the following week to keep the cycle going

All city leaders, gods, VP and AoW would remain normal FTE

This was roughly the agreement that took place for a short time on Emarr and for the most part worked for ToV. Ofcourse you would have to figure out a system for Earthquakes (maybe make them full FTE and the current rotation guild gets bumped back a week, they could possibly even get extra mobs from this to lessen the pain of the wait extension)

If you added agreed upon race criteria for the rest of the targets you could possibly even do away with Earthquakes and Variances making it far easier for Staff and Guilds to schedule raids and kills (I would still keep Earthquakes personally as a way to stop the spread of spawns being too drawn out, but variances could go imho)

Tho this wouldnt clean up the entire raid scene it would greatly reduce the number of petitions and disagreements if it was followed, it would also allow for other lesser guilds to gear up and participate in more FTE encounters as true competition.

I always hear people saying that rotations prevent competition but this would allow not only competition to continue on all fronts, but possibly even add more competition on City Leaders AoW etc while drastically improving the overall raid scene and "fairness" to lesser guilds and guilds that prefer to do things with smaller numbers

Im sure this will go over like a lead life preserver and it surely has holes that need to be addressed but overall something like this I can only see as being a good thing for the server as a whole

[Henlolizar]

I mean most guilds (at least the three recently banned) have pre conceived notions of each other and no amount of transparency is going to change that.

90% of what happens in UN already is just posturing and grandstanding trying to convince the GM's your guild has the moral high ground. Adding more onlookers only adds to that problem.

I think that most people who would read this crap anyway are savvy enough to see through the posturing and grandstanding in this context.

[Henlolizar]

As a member of one of the guilds with pre conceived notions of eachother..... I fully agree with you about that, they exist, they are pre conceived. And they are fed by guild leadership. Often, and with great gusto. Officers will post snippets of another guilds rep saying something stupid in the UN. And on their discord be like, "LOOK they are ssssoooooooo stupid omfg look and poke fun!!". It helps nothing

But, as you say, perhaps that's due to the fact that these snippets are taken out of context and framed by your own representative for you to view from their lens? Wouldn't revealing the entire conversation to all alleviate that to some degree?

[kaizersoze]

I mean most guilds (at least the three recently banned) have pre conceived notions of each other and no amount of transparency is going to change that.

90% of what happens in UN already is just posturing and grandstanding trying to convince the GM's your guild has the moral high ground. Adding more onlookers only adds to that problem.

Not really. The snippets of UN I've seen pretty much confirm a lot of rumors about certain people in certain guilds. If everyone saw how all the leadership acts when "nobody else can see" I think it might change their perspective on them and if they wanted to stay a guild leader, they would be FORCED to change and compromise. Hopefully no more delegating the responsibility to negotiate to a single officer and not liking their ideas and going back on them.

[kaizersoze]

and theyre not exactly SHORT cuts of the conversation either.

[Dreenk317]

But, as you say, perhaps that's due to the fact that these snippets are taken out of context and framed by your own representative for you to view from their lens? Wouldn't revealing the entire conversation to all alleviate that to some degree?
Ya, thats my point

[Henlolizar]

Ya, thats my point

Ah, gotcha.

Well, all I can say is, the real UN is broadcast for public viewing so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[deezy]

i support a public viewing of the UN

[Grumph]

The Aye’s have it!

[Henlolizar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YprSW1mNHbo

[Hrothgar]

Yuge if troo.

[Naonak]

I agree. Blue UN should be for all raiders to see. Even if they can't post. We have the right to see this so called toxic behavior.

[elwing]

Yep, let's show the world that riot are not the nice people they claim to be!

[Ravager]

Instead of UN bullshit, they should make everything completely fair and democratic. When a raid mob spawns, nobody can touch it until there is a serverwide vote on which guild gets to kill and loot it. Anyone logged on at the time gets a vote whether they're in a guild or not. In the extremely rare event of a tie, GM favortism comes into play and Nilbog casts the tie-breaking vote with a random number generator. Instead of arguing for mobs, the players will be forced to campaign for mobs. In the event a guild can't kill the mob within 2 hours of the vote results, it goes to the next most popular guild who gets 2 hours. And before anyone says "why two hours?" I say fuck off, I'm making completely arbitrary rules for a completely arbitrary game.

[Hrothgar]

Jfc, yikes.

[Tunabros]

i support a public viewing of the UN

[Grapeape]

I agree. Blue UN should be for all raiders to see. Even if they can't post. We have the right to see this so called toxic behavior.

especially if rank and file members are going to be punished for this toxic behavior. Accountability is impossible without transparency. GM's have some culpability in bringing us to the position we're in today too. I hope they don't see themselves as blameless.

[Nitholias01]

Letting UN be readable by the server was brought up a while ago and no one had a problem with it. It was just never done, not sure why

[Hisamori]

Yep, let's show the world that riot are not the nice people they claim to be!

I don't think anyone, even Riot themselves, claim to be "nice" or good guys. They just aren't, in general, irredeemable dickheads.

[conoutoftrol]

The people in charge will never let you pull back the curtain

-Q

[Hideousclaw]

Were in the process of setting up read-only permissions for the general public. I think the person spearheading that should have it done shortly. Come see what all the excitement is about

[sydbarrett25]

This is huge, when people blindly follow others you are placing a lot of faith in them. AG/F/Riot leaders could all be pulling your legs really

[cd288]

especially if rank and file members are going to be punished for this toxic behavior. Accountability is impossible without transparency. GM's have some culpability in bringing us to the position we're in today too. I hope they don't see themselves as blameless.

I actually think this is a pretty good point and would make guild leaders more accountable to their members. If leaders and officers are being assholes in the UN and their guild gets hit by it their members should get to see that