Lets make green raiding classic!

[Magerin]

So, this is going into RnF as it will likely be ignored because the zerg guild wont wanna do anything to remotely help smaller guilds.

Anyways, I'd like to offer the whole server a classic experience! To do this, I purpose that at any and all raid targets that any mobs your guild (or known associates given people who are willing to de-guild if this was to be enforced) gains agro on, it must be killed by or wiped your guild. Kiting a train at any point to leap frog or steal a mob should be completely removed from the game.

On live, GMs were really hardcore about train kiting and really disallowed it. As it was stated to me by GMs on live, any mobs you get agro on, you as the player (on this server the guild too), you the player (on this server the guild too) are responsible for what happened with it until it gets back to its spawn point or spawn path.

Watching a zerg guild with 100 players and 20 of them are focusing on the kite while the other 80 are killing the raid target simply because they have the numbers and the people to kite it is NOT classic. Tactics like this were not thing on live I'm almost certain given the 2 or 3 raids i attended that took hours to kill the dragon.

Lets put effort into making it classic raiding and not train kite and zerg the mob before the mobs reset (basically placing a train in the way of the raid mob after your guild rushes in behind the train kiter. This sort of thing will only get worse as time goes on for the life of green. Everyone know the timers, locations, strats, pathing, there isnt anything that completely new here. Lets make gaining mass agro and train kiting and using that same train as a fail safe to train the other guild(s) if their guild loses FTE 100% illegal!!!

[Nuggie]

I like your motivations.

[Magerin]

I only bring this up because I was suspended on live for this tactic on older raid targets in 2005ish. I was in Plane of Fear going after the golems with only a group of people vs another group of people). I'd start up a kite to allow my crew to get to the temples and Id drop the train between the zone in and the temple to make rushing the temple a little more difficult as the train would would create a nice little wall of mobs.

I ate a 7 day and 1 strike on the account (on live you are allowed 3 strikes before the account is on a perma ban status). The GM was very clear this sort of thing is considered a manipulation of the mechanics to disadvantage other players.

[shuklak]

nobody plays p99 for classic eq.

[gnomishfirework]

The GM was very clear this sort of thing is considered a manipulation of the mechanics to disadvantage other players.

He wasn't wrong.

[azxten]

GMs in EQ never did shit beyond actual exploits. Guides would spend all day telling players to go fuck themselves no matter what the issue was. We need classic GMs that let players train each other and handle it in game.

[Swish]

Flag everyone for pvp in raid zones and let the rest sort itself out.

[Ravager]

nobody plays p99 for classic eq.
sig worthy quote here.

[Baler]

Flag everyone for pvp in raid zones and let the rest sort itself out.

I'd like to see a trial run of this.

[BarnabusCollins]

KSing wasn't illegal in live 01-04 but training was and a GM would show up.

[OuterChimp]

Speaking of trains....when are they going to introduce a track rail in Minecraft which can cross another rail so you can have intersecting rail lines?

[galach]

I have faith Green server raiding in Kunark + Velious will be less drama compared to Blue.

[reznor_]

given the 2 or 3 raids i attended that took hours to kill the dragon.


lol.

What zerg are you referring to? The 3-guild teamup that formed to try to beat out ST?

[Nuggie]

I have faith Green server raiding in Kunark + Velious will be less drama compared to Blue.

You're probably right. I'm hoping it goes so far the opposite direction so quick Rogean will implement C/R/FFA with a quickness.

[Fammaden]

Probably not much drama when its just one guild controlling every raid mob yeah.

[xdrcfrx]

green raiding is going to be a shit show when kunark drops. People were acting shitty over plane of sky. imagine how they're going to be with VP keys on the table.

[reznor_]

green raiding is going to be a shit show when kunark drops.

I for one, look forward to the chaos.

[Nuggie]

VP doesn't open until near Velious release. I don't think keys are farmable until then.

[k9quaint]

I have faith Green server raiding in Kunark + Velious will be less drama compared to Blue.

Blue has 10 years of raid drama. Green will only have 2-3 years of it. Objectively less!

[turbosilk]

I have faith Green server raiding in Kunark + Velious will be less drama compared to Blue.

I like your optimism but what makes you optimistic? That green raid guilds aren't run by the same drama people from Blue?

[Woke Locc]

Didnt blue pop boom @ kunark?

The hordes of hell are upon you :D

[MaCtastic]

I have faith Green server raiding in Kunark + Velious will be less drama compared to Blue.

Thanks for the nice belly laugh Galach.

[Zipity]

I have faith Green server raiding in Kunark + Velious will be less drama compared to Blue.

Lollllllll.

[Zipity]

https://discord.gg/6sQ73j

All it takes is one day - one day going through the crazy rules and ramblings on green to realize Kunark will be a shit show. I’ll be there though, I’m a glutton for punishment

[Toryas]

I have faith Green server raiding in Kunark + Velious will be less drama compared to Blue.

I wish I had your level of optimism!

[xdrcfrx]

argument running for several days about the severity / appropriate punishment for modifying cursor color/size? yikes. This is supposed to be the server with *less* drama?

[unleashedd]

everyone wants to raid and get top pixels. how is there room for more than 1 raid guild? either join the zerg or settle for lesser pixels. simple

[Woke Locc]

argument running for several days about the severity / appropriate punishment for modifying cursor color/size? yikes. This is supposed to be the server with *less* drama?

Cursors are considered a hack? Like the ones you get on eqinterface? :eek:

[Fammaden]

everyone wants to raid and get top pixels. how is there room for more than 1 raid guild? either join the zerg or settle for lesser pixels. simple

Joining the zerg means less pixels too, there's only so much loot and half the server on your dkp roster trying to score drops every week.

[galach]

I think there is like 10 months of Kunark total instead of the 4 years on blue. People forget how brutal the 50-60 grind is on one character. I really don't see that many issues until the last month or two when even casuals are level 60 & are pixel hungry.

[unleashedd]

Joining the zerg means less pixels too

and i get that. tit for tat - id rather raid casually in a zerg, saving up my dkp, than spaz out over rotations, lawyerquest, etc

[Fammaden]

In month two The Hole will open and people on blue blast through 55 to 60 in like a week with the new buffed ZEM.

[Fammaden]

and i get that. tit for tat - id rather raid casually in a zerg, saving up my dkp, than spaz out over rotations, lawyerquest, etc

Yeah I'm not making value judgements on anyone for sure. But on green its like there's no choice. On blue (or back in the old days) you can pick a different guild and still at least get something, still at least have a decent shot at your epic bottlenecks even if you were never getting Vulak or ST loot. Right now it seems like you're either ST or you might as well not raid.

Now this isn't ST's "fault" per se, or that this makes them evil (they might be IDK), and of course its contingent on other guilds to step up and give them better competition. But at this point it really seems like there's no stopping the monopoly. I'm doubting the green population increases drastically enough in Kunark to lead to other guilds with the size to really go up against them, hopefully/maybe I'm wrong about that part.

They have all the momentum, all the infrastructure, all the shared toons, and all the recruiting draw for both new applicants and poached members from competitors. Plus time is on their side because green is basically a speedrun race server rather than a timelocked forever community where you can choose to slowly build up an opposition force little by little.

So instead of picking which team of the server community you want to be a part of, you are either choosing ST or choosing not to raid. And that doesn't feel like a very dynamic or interesting raid experience for some of us.

[Fammaden]

The bright side for Kunark-proper (pre epics, pre VT, and most importantly pre Velious) is that there's a lot of stuff to fill your EQ time more casually. If you got your planar armor already, or are in a guild who can, then there's tons of supplemental items to fill the gaps from classic which don't require raiding.

You can, for example, farm with friends or save up to buy a heiro cloak, and that's pretty much as good as it gets for most any class in Kunark if you don't need resists for raid dragons. There's a bunch of things like that in Kunark, all the droppable spells for class progression, etc.

Plus of course the big grind to 60 itself to fill your time. So in defense of Kunark itself, there's a reason so many people find it the best expansion of the classic age, it offers a lot for everyone really. Assuming every loot camp isn't just perma socked by enchanters for the majority of the rest of the server's life I guess.

[Croco]

I have faith Green server raiding in Kunark + Velious will be less drama compared to Blue.

Not sure if you actually said that with a straight face but a guildmate of mine articulated a perfect & accurate response.

That guy nuked an established meta, which was fairly cut and dry, to replace it with his own favored meta, racing, that has people using illusions to inch forward past one another. To top it all off he's not reading petitions, he's just tossing them out. And now he's sarcastic about blue being a cluster. Like wat? He's a responsible party lol.

[Kohedron]

that's cute that you think the people in """power""" are going to give up their """"power"""" to do you a favor.

[Magerin]

This server is a speed run of what P99 Blue was. People already know what opens and approx at what point to be ready for those steps.

IE, Kunark drops, zerg kills all raid targets in hour 1. By the next week, everyone in the zerg guild will be 55 to 60, by end of month one, zerg guild has all their mains, main alts, shared toons level 60 and camped out all over the place to dry hump every spawn while still getting up 52's for the evenually naggy/vox level change.

Meanwhile, same zerg guild dry humps King camp for Fungi staffs to use to PL more shared toons, dry humps every item removed from game spawn until removed. Completely doming every spawn and farm site to get the key spells for many classes.

I would put money on exactly what zerg guild will do to get Trakanon down, Train kite and zerg him like they did in Kunark on Blue. Blue taught the zerg leadership what to do and how to get away with it. Without the removal of the rotten players (but only a short 7 day) that makes the raiding unfriendly to people who dont like to sit at the computer for 20 hours in a row to get 3 mobs, it is nearly pointless to raid. Creating trains to get FTE and dropping the train when you lose fte knowingly training the competition just isnt legit.

Bottom line. Raiding isnt fun this way.

[Bardp1999]

If we did this Lord Nagafen then would live longer than 5 minutes after he spawns, this is not how things are done here

[Molitoth]

I have faith Green server raiding in Kunark + Velious will be less drama compared to Blue.


Going to need: A strict ruleset with Strong Penalties.
Which is not happening on Blue.

[turbosilk]

Going to need: A strict ruleset with Strong Penalties.
Which is not happening on Blue.

The strong penalties on blue carried enough punitive punishment that guilds started to play nice instead of averaging a raid guild getting a suspension every 1.5 months from 2016 to 2020.

Oh wait.

[adruidarkly]

This server is a speed run of what P99 Blue was. People already know what opens and approx at what point to be ready for those steps.

IE, Kunark drops, zerg kills all raid targets in hour 1. By the next week, everyone in the zerg guild will be 55 to 60, by end of month one, zerg guild has all their mains, main alts, shared toons level 60 and camped out all over the place to dry hump every spawn while still getting up 52's for the evenually naggy/vox level change.

Meanwhile, same zerg guild dry humps King camp for Fungi staffs to use to PL more shared toons, dry humps every item removed from game spawn until removed. Completely doming every spawn and farm site to get the key spells for many classes.

I would put money on exactly what zerg guild will do to get Trakanon down, Train kite and zerg him like they did in Kunark on Blue. Blue taught the zerg leadership what to do and how to get away with it. Without the removal of the rotten players (but only a short 7 day) that makes the raiding unfriendly to people who dont like to sit at the computer for 20 hours in a row to get 3 mobs, it is nearly pointless to raid. Creating trains to get FTE and dropping the train when you lose fte knowingly training the competition just isnt legit.

Bottom line. Raiding isnt fun this way.

pretty much

[xdrcfrx]

This server is a speed run of what P99 Blue was. People already know what opens and approx at what point to be ready for those steps.

IE, Kunark drops, zerg kills all raid targets in hour 1. By the next week, everyone in the zerg guild will be 55 to 60, by end of month one, zerg guild has all their mains, main alts, shared toons level 60 and camped out all over the place to dry hump every spawn while still getting up 52's for the evenually naggy/vox level change.

Meanwhile, same zerg guild dry humps King camp for Fungi staffs to use to PL more shared toons, dry humps every item removed from game spawn until removed. Completely doming every spawn and farm site to get the key spells for many classes.

I would put money on exactly what zerg guild will do to get Trakanon down, Train kite and zerg him like they did in Kunark on Blue. Blue taught the zerg leadership what to do and how to get away with it. Without the removal of the rotten players (but only a short 7 day) that makes the raiding unfriendly to people who dont like to sit at the computer for 20 hours in a row to get 3 mobs, it is nearly pointless to raid. Creating trains to get FTE and dropping the train when you lose fte knowingly training the competition just isnt legit.

Bottom line. Raiding isnt fun this way.

This is all probably true. Question is going to be which items, if any, are going to be /list camps. Legacy items which get removed or nerfed, like lockets of escape and circlets of shadow, seem like obvious candidates. But if so, why not make the fungi staff a /list drop also? Are VP key pieces, like the ones dropping off the pained soul, the rotting skellie, of the Verix Kylong remains, going to be /list?

The raid prediction is probably spot on. Kunark brings some more raiding into the mix, but it's still a limited number of targets - 5 outdoor dragons, Trak, and VS, until VP opens up, yeah?

[Castle2.0]

either join the zerg or settle for lesser pixels. simple

I'll fix it for you.

Either join 300 people you don't know and start at 0 DKP so you can get the top 30-50 their pixels, and maybe get one crappy item some day... or settle for better community and better chances at pixels

[Fammaden]

The raid prediction is probably spot on. Kunark brings some more raiding into the mix, but it's still a limited number of targets - 5 outdoor dragons, Trak, and VS, until VP opens up, yeah?

Five? Talendor, Sev, Gore? Who else?

[Bardp1999]

Five? Talendor, Sev, Gore? Who else?

Faydedar...and....???

[Bardp1999]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Raid_Encounters

Only 5 dragons (including Trak)

[Fammaden]

Ah yeah real natural spawn Fae, always forget that exists.

[Ripqozko]

Ah yeah real natural spawn Fae, always forget that exists.

Water shield OP

[xdrcfrx]

snap, it is only 4 isn't it. Not sure what I was thinking of as the 5th. Point still stands - the limited raid encounters will definitely lead to friction. This is true on blue also, even with the significant increase in raid content that velious brings.

[Hrothgar]

nobody plays p99 for classic eq.

[Zipity]

Sev
Gore
Talendor
Faydedar
Trakanon

Can’t forget Venril Sathir

Then all your VP dragons.

[Nuggie]

Despite all the negative predictions, raiding on Green will be open to more players than on Blue in the same time period.

I see that as a win to some degree.

[Bardp1999]

Despite all the negative predictions, raiding on Green will be open to more players than on Blue in the same time period.

I see that as a win to some degree.

With Kunark lasting a classic amount of time and not 5 years, things will be much different than on Blue (maybe?). I personally foresee people being hyper hardcore and cutthroat (especially on Epic Quest mobs) all the way through to Velious.

Velious will be the more interesting release insofar as people tackling the content without 5 years of Fungi farming and everyone having Epics

Kunark is the golden time of EQ and there are tons of things the casuals can do while the no lifers raid, i think it very well be the most harmonious time on the server

[Bardp1999]

Lets also not forget that 10 years into Blue, 3+ years of Velious, Lord Nagafen STILL gets shit canned within 10 minutes of him spawning. Kunark Green isnt going to be for the employed

[Nuggie]

No epics until damned near Velious also, yes?

[Nuggie]

The rest I agree with.

[Fammaden]

The raid scene won't improve at all. If you are in Kingdom or Ven (not sure who else even still stands a chance, maybe Federation comes back) then you better hope for lots of quakes. Outside of quakes you're just going to be chasing ST from one window to the next and watching them win most of them.

Some people think the extra mobs helps even out raiding somehow, but the longer you go without quakes the more all those mob windows (to include the classic raids) get spread out and overlap. Which favors ST's numbers and hours more and more.

So you can chase one window after another and lose them all, or focus your manpower hours on one window and just watch ST shift resources to match and exceed your competition on that particular mob spawn. Good luck, have fun.

[Tunabros]

So, this is going into RnF as it will likely be ignored because the zerg guild wont wanna do anything to remotely help smaller guilds.

Anyways, I'd like to offer the whole server a classic experience! To do this, I purpose that at any and all raid targets that any mobs your guild (or known associates given people who are willing to de-guild if this was to be enforced) gains agro on, it must be killed by or wiped your guild. Kiting a train at any point to leap frog or steal a mob should be completely removed from the game.



Anyone remember when TMO use to kite mobs around KC so they could get VS all to themselves? Lol that was good times

[Ravager]

I think there is like 10 months of Kunark total instead of the 4 years on blue. People forget how brutal the 50-60 grind is on one character. I really don't see that many issues until the last month or two when even casuals are level 60 & are pixel hungry.
They'll find a way to trivialize the grind. They always do. It's not like anyone's here to play the game.

[Danth]

If you strictly follow the original timeline it's even less than 10 months--late April 2000 to December 2000. Call it about seven and a half months. Kunark era didn't last long.

Danth

[Ella`Ella]

I have faith Green server raiding in Kunark + Velious will be less drama compared to Blue.

You obviously haven't been here long enough to realize just how truly depraved and shameless this community is.

[douglas1999]

On the one hand I always wished they'd extend kunark a bit for green\subsequent servers, because for the amount of content it provides it doesn't last nearly long enough for most of the playerbase. On the other hand it might make velious here more interesting because things won't be *as* top heavy when velious launches. On live I didn't get my shaman epic until like right before luclin, and I was only able to get it with a coalition of different guilds none of whom I had to pay, I just had some friends in each. That was a pretty cool time.

[galach]

You obviously haven't been here long enough to realize just how truly depraved and shameless this community is.

I'm an OG

[Croco]

I'm an OG

then you're either deluded or clueless

[Solist]

I'm an OG

Sorry but in my opinion and experience Green is and was more toxic after the first week than I've ever experienced in blue, and I've been on blue on and off since late 09 excluding breaks for eqmac. I don't think I've seen more griefing, cheating, lieing etc than green ever in EQ.

Teal was a significantly nicer place to play while it was open, with far less boxing, less dudes in seal team lieing to hold camps and bumping guildies up lists etc. Teal felt a lot more community focussed for most of its existence.

My hope for kunark on green is that all content is rotated hard, with the hand of god forcing adherance to it. Given how exploited green is and the abundance of 50's already, it's as if skyfire and chardok AE have existed there already...#everfrost4life. It wont be healthy in the slightest.

The only hope for making a server healthy is having defined tiers of players, where only the most committed are at the top. The moment 'casuals' (for the sake of argument, >40hr/week players) are able to access high end content it all falls apart and entitlement shoots through the roof. These folks should still be struggling to level in KC when epics are released, not prepared for it with 2 60's banked.

[Zyth]

Sorry but in my opinion and experience Green is and was more toxic after the first week than I've ever experienced in blue, and I've been on blue on and off since late 09 excluding breaks for eqmac. I don't think I've seen more griefing, cheating, lieing etc than green ever in EQ.

Teal was a significantly nicer place to play while it was open, with far less boxing, less dudes in seal team lieing to hold camps and bumping guildies up lists etc. Teal felt a lot more community focussed for most of its existence.

My hope for kunark on green is that all content is rotated hard, with the hand of god forcing adherance to it. Given how exploited green is and the abundance of 50's already, it's as if skyfire and chardok AE have existed there already...#everfrost4life. It wont be healthy in the slightest.

The only hope for making a server healthy is having defined tiers of players, where only the most committed are at the top. The moment 'casuals' (for the sake of argument, >40hr/week players) are able to access high end content it all falls apart and entitlement shoots through the roof. These folks should still be struggling to level in KC when epics are released, not prepared for it with 2 60's banked.

wat

[Fammaden]

My hope for kunark on green is that all content is rotated hard, with the hand of god forcing adherance to it.

You should know already that this isn't happening. The staff here doesn't force rules on the players, they enforce agreements that the players come to themselves and the players (ST) aren't about to agree to any such thing.

I wasn't around for the R/C rotations or whatever, was that player conceived or did the GM's think it up and force it on everyone?

[Phaezed-Reality]

green/blue after playinf red from launch to velious end i can say without a doubt green/blue is FAR more toxic, and manipulative of staff. I imagine galach might not feel that way cause he got got from plane of sky that one time on red. which imo was pretty funny lol.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The sweaty tryhards have had Blue as their playground for 10+ years. You would think that would be enough time to satisfy pixel lust and agree to bag limits on Green. Nope, gotta dominate that too. And Mauve server in 3 years or whatever when we start all over again.

Neckbeards will be on oxygen in their deathbeds in 2045 shooing away the nurse trying to give them a spongebath and a sympathy handjob just so they can log on their level 52 and deny casuals some Naggy pixels in late Velious.

Can we start requesting now that the next iteration of PVE servers start with a Green and Teal type split, but advertise one to be hardcore competition and one to be casual rotation, and keep them separate?

[Solist]

I've been in favor of bag limits for like 6 years now. That and severe xp reductions to limit the amount of max level alts.

[Raev]

Motec, what do you think of my League idea?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329201

[Danth]

I wasn't around for the R/C rotations or whatever, was that player conceived or did the GM's think it up and force it on everyone?

It was a little of both: Class C and R was mandated by the GM's but were more like guild tiers than strict rotations: The classes set aside certain spawns so that a single group couldn't monopolize absolutely everything. If you were class C, you had to leave the class R spawns alone, killing a class C spawn promoted your guild to that class, and so forth, free-for-all were open to all. There could be (and were) numerous guilds within a class. The middle-tier players themselves made the class R spawns a rotation which was the principle reason it eventually fell apart, some of the bigger "class R" guilds fell prey to the pixel sickness and wanted to stop sharing and monopolize most/all of those spawns instead of trying to compete with class C. The failure of the class R rotation effectively turned it into a set of semi-private spawns for a couple of the bigger class R guilds, leading to the entire system being scrapped shortly thereafter then Velious opened.

At the time I was mainly surprised the class R rotation lasted as long as it did. I figured from the start the pixel-sick folks would break it. Rotations don't tend to work too well within P99's community without staff support.

Danth

[Ripqozko]

It was a little of both: Class C and R was mandated by the GM's but were more like guild tiers than strict rotations: The classes set aside certain spawns so that a single group couldn't monopolize absolutely everything. If you were class C, you had to leave the class R spawns alone, killing a class C spawn promoted your guild to that class, and so forth, free-for-all were open to all. There could be (and were) numerous guilds within a class. The middle-tier players themselves made the class R spawns a rotation which was the principle reason it eventually fell apart, some of the bigger "class R" guilds fell prey to the pixel sickness and wanted to stop sharing and monopolize most/all of those spawns instead of trying to compete with class C. The failure of the class R rotation effectively turned it into a set of semi-private spawns for a couple of the bigger class R guilds, leading to the entire system being scrapped shortly thereafter then Velious opened.

At the time I was mainly surprised the class R rotation lasted as long as it did. I figured from the start the pixel-sick folks would break it. Rotations don't tend to work too well within P99's community without staff support.

Danth

If taken and BDA were promoted to C, Class R would of been fine. They should of never been R.

[Danth]

I agree, Ripgozko. Or at least it was natural for them to promote to class C once they got more pixel-sick. Then and now, I think using class R to hide from TMO while trying to lord it up over weakling little guilds who couldn't fight back was a chickenshit thing to do.

Danth

[Ripqozko]

I agree, Ripgozko. Or at least it was natural for them to promote to class C once they got more pixel-sick. Then and now, I think using class R to hide from TMO while trying to lord it up over weakling little guilds who couldn't fight back was a chickenshit thing to do.

Danth

Yep all the gatekeeping and such they threw on other class R guilds was dumb. They should of been competing against us in C.

[arsenalpow]

C versus R was a playstyle choice. Don’t get it twisted.

[Nuggie]

@Danth, I'm not going to look it up and I'm probably misremembering, but I thought the plan was always to scrap C/R/FFA when velious dropped.

I think there were some good arguments on both sides of the Class R debates. Each side trying to do well by their respective members. In the end there just wasn't enough give on both sides to hold it together. However, while it was around it was the best time to raid as a casual on Blue IMHO. Atleast until I quit in 2017.

[Nirgon]

So, this is going into RnF as it will likely be ignored because the zerg guild wont wanna do anything to remotely help smaller guilds.

Anyways, I'd like to offer the whole server a classic experience! To do this, I purpose that at any and all raid targets that any mobs your guild (or known associates given people who are willing to de-guild if this was to be enforced) gains agro on, it must be killed by or wiped your guild. Kiting a train at any point to leap frog or steal a mob should be completely removed from the game.

On live, GMs were really hardcore about train kiting and really disallowed it. As it was stated to me by GMs on live, any mobs you get agro on, you as the player (on this server the guild too), you the player (on this server the guild too) are responsible for what happened with it until it gets back to its spawn point or spawn path.

Watching a zerg guild with 100 players and 20 of them are focusing on the kite while the other 80 are killing the raid target simply because they have the numbers and the people to kite it is NOT classic. Tactics like this were not thing on live I'm almost certain given the 2 or 3 raids i attended that took hours to kill the dragon.

Lets put effort into making it classic raiding and not train kite and zerg the mob before the mobs reset (basically placing a train in the way of the raid mob after your guild rushes in behind the train kiter. This sort of thing will only get worse as time goes on for the life of green. Everyone know the timers, locations, strats, pathing, there isnt anything that completely new here. Lets make gaining mass agro and train kiting and using that same train as a fail safe to train the other guild(s) if their guild loses FTE 100% illegal!!!

Go do this on the blue server that's already been ruined by toxic low energy whiners

[Ravager]

Go do this on the blue server that's already been ruined by toxic low energy whiners
Yep. That's what ruined blue. Dead as Red.

[Lutomorf]

Yeah I'm not making value judgements on anyone for sure. But on green its like there's no choice. On blue (or back in the old days) you can pick a different guild and still at least get something, still at least have a decent shot at your epic bottlenecks even if you were never getting Vulak or ST loot. Right now it seems like you're either ST or you might as well not raid.

Now this isn't ST's "fault" per se, or that this makes them evil (they might be IDK), and of course its contingent on other guilds to step up and give them better competition. But at this point it really seems like there's no stopping the monopoly. I'm doubting the green population increases drastically enough in Kunark to lead to other guilds with the size to really go up against them, hopefully/maybe I'm wrong about that part.

They have all the momentum, all the infrastructure, all the shared toons, and all the recruiting draw for both new applicants and poached members from competitors. Plus time is on their side because green is basically a speedrun race server rather than a timelocked forever community where you can choose to slowly build up an opposition force little by little.

So instead of picking which team of the server community you want to be a part of, you are either choosing ST or choosing not to raid. And that doesn't feel like a very dynamic or interesting raid experience for some of us.

Exactly, and with ST setting the schedule of all the UN guilds they make sure to never be threatened on that front. ST monopolizing all the content because they have a Zerg army is what we have to look forward to. The only way a guild will ever threaten ST is if they get the numbers and contest the UN kill schedule. As far as I can tell, the only non-UN raiding guild is Gathered Might.

[Baler]

Enforced crawling to raid targets, Ban COTH. lol

[Baler]

Coth, Rez box and TL Box are all over played on p99. Sure these things may have been used during 99-01 but on p99 it's like a playbook for high end raiding. Trust me I've seen some of the images you raiders pass around.
I have to believe that back in 99-01 they didn't have any knowledge of these tactics. Especially when a new expansions was going to drop. ToV is and will always be a prime example. How did ToV work on live, How does it work on P99. What can we do to recreate that classic environment.

sry for double post, didnt know this was in rnf.

[Fammaden]

I still don't get why they rooted the ToV dragons but didn't disable CotH in the zone at the same time.

[azxten]

Coth, Rez box and TL Box are all over played on p99. Sure these things may have been used during 99-01 but on p99 it's like a playbook for high end raiding. Trust me I've seen some of the images you raiders pass around.
I have to believe that back in 99-01 they didn't have any knowledge of these tactics. Especially when a new expansions was going to drop. ToV is and will always be a prime example. How did ToV work on live, How does it work on P99. What can we do to recreate that classic environment.

sry for double post, didnt know this was in rnf.

Raiding on live didn't really have races to raid mobs. The content was actually difficult and there were few guilds and players capable of killing the mobs. Strategies weren't known for the fights, leveling was harder, etc. Raid mobs would actually be spawned and not instantly killed. End of story. Anyone who can't understand live didn't have 5 guilds of 100 level 50/60s standing around AFK waiting for a raid mob to pop is delusional.

As I said in a separate post, one of the biggest problems with P99 raiding is that ZEMs are as high as 170 (?) when in classic no zone had more than 100. P99 for whatever reason likes to push everyone to max level raiding which was actually a very small part of classic EQ for 99% of players. Only that no life 1% group raided regularly, it was beyond the reach of most players to even be in a raid guild until Velious in a minor sense and really PoP era. If you remember differently it's because you were probably part of that 1% no life group. P99 player base is mostly people who can't let go of their EQ memories so were very top heavy in terms of the type of players here. The social players, the roleplayers, the explorers, etc don't play on P99. Expansions came out faster than players could level to reach raid content. If experience was half as fast on P99 you'd see the same. Most people wouldn't put in the time let alone guilds having COTH bots, port bots, etc to just login at will and abuse skills for mobilizing or filling out their roster for each given raid.

Let's look at CT as an example. Super high unclassic ZEM on P99. Yet the gator area, from what I've seen, is almost always just being used for PL groups. Does anyone really think if such a thing existed in classic with all of the overcrowding, slow exp, etc that this area would be dominated by guilds PLing their alts? No, it would be permanently camped by groups, solo players, etc claiming every single spawn as their own like it was in live where it was so hard to find exp spots people claimed single guards, etc. On P99 if this happens then they open a second server. Not due to true overcrowding like live had but due to overcrowding of the popular unclassic high ZEM spots and easy mode leveling experience. P99 staff, for whatever reason, wants everyone to hit max level fairly quickly and anything that slows this down is considered a problem rather than a necessary bottleneck to avoid the high level raid bottleneck. I mean, we waited 10 years for green and then they immediately made it non-classic by speeding up newb spawns and adding a second server that they planned to merge BACK together.

Fixing raiding on P99 starts with killing unclassic ZEM, unclassic easy mode camps like the kithicor undead, and making the game as difficult as live was. Fixing channeling, returning classes like Enchanter to their classic model. P99 is easy mode fast leveling to AFK at raids. Anything other than fixing this will continue to exacerbate the problems here at high level. It shouldn't even be possible for most players to hit max level between classic/kunark unless they're grinding 16 hours a day.

tl;dr: The problem with P99 raiding starts BEFORE raid level with how trivial everything has become due to non-classic issues and ZEMs which causes overcrowding

Fix unclassic ZEMs
Start green over again without fast spawning newb mobs
Start green over again without teal OR never merge teal back into green before Kunark has even released
Fix channeling
Fix Enchanter charm
Fix pet HP as documented in bug reports to make pet spamming less effective due to AEs killing them
Fix raid mob variance which was recently shown to be much higher
Eliminate "earthquakes" and server down repops of mobs which was also recently shown to not happen


Once all of this is done EQ will be at least closer to the same difficulty of leveling that classic had and you won't see 500 max level characters waiting for Vox/Naggy. Racing for raid mobs won't be an issue anymore because guilds will actually have more difficulty killing the mobs due to lower player counts. Less raid mobs will be killed bottlenecking gear which trivializes the content. By the time things get top heavy Kunark would release and the cycle would repeat. Most people are incapable of hitting max level on a classic time line with classic experience rates, raid spawn rates, and difficulty. The only remaining issue then is that strategies and mobs are known. The only way to fix that would be to tweak raid mobs so that they have to be relearned or just make them more difficult than they were in classic to stop them being a known fight.

Green is already screwed because too many people hit 50 in a trivial manner due to the above. Within 2 weeks of Kunark and Velious launch the same top heavy raid situation will exist again. It's just too easy and nothing like live. For whatever reason staff is promoting this top heavy situation which is ironic because they also complain endlessly about the drama it causes for them. Why would you introduce an almost 2x experience mod through ZEMs then wonder why the raid situation is so overcrowded and full of crybabies and foot races? We may never know.

[Seducio]

Good post, Azxten. Agree with many of your points.

[Zyth]

Those issues Azxten mentioned should probably be fixed, but they won't change the situation at all.

The people who want to do end game raiding will still get their mains and alts to level 50 before Kunark, and to level 60 before Velious. People have been at max level on multiple characters for months on Green.

[Scalem]

Exactly, and with ST setting the schedule of all the UN guilds they make sure to never be threatened on that front. ST monopolizing all the content because they have a Zerg army is what we have to look forward to. The only way a guild will ever threaten ST is if they get the numbers and contest the UN kill schedule. As far as I can tell, the only non-UN raiding guild is Gathered Might.

Good luck ever contesting ST the moment you do they just throw petition after petition at you and try to litigate literally everything. Even when they win something they petition for some “infraction” in hopes it gets them free targets. Can’t wait to see them perma banned from raiding once the GMs get tired of their endless petitions.

[Fammaden]

Good luck ever contesting ST the moment you do they just throw petition after petition at you and try to litigate literally everything. Even when they win something they petition for some “infraction” in hopes it gets them free targets. Can’t wait to see them perma banned from raiding once the GMs get tired of their endless petitions.

This is the exact behavior that the three top guilds on blue are suspended for right now, because the GM's were sick of it.

There's a lot of us in the blue raid scene who feel like there should be penalties for "crying wolf", as in if you petition and there's no fault found with your opponent then the petitioning guild should be the one eating some form of punishment. Or if you win the mob you can't petition your competitor because it didn't stop you from getting the mob. Or maybe guilds should have a limit on how many petitions they can have per week, or month, or how many they can have pending at any given time. Or all of the above.

[Scalem]

This is the exact behavior that the three top guilds on blue are suspended for right now, because the GM's were sick of it.

There's a lot of us in the blue raid scene who feel like there should be penalties for "crying wolf", as in if you petition and there's no fault found with your opponent then the petitioning guild should be the one eating some form of punishment. Or if you win the mob you can't petition your competitor because it didn't stop you from getting the mob. Or maybe guilds should have a limit on how many petitions they can have per week, or month, or how many they can have pending at any given time. Or all of the above.

There’s people on green who feel the same way. They are tired of the non stop petitions and lawyerquest. The servers would be better off if the GMs actually put their foot down and punished these guilds. Sure some of them will quit and never come back but this sever has been around long enough where it won’t hurt it. I’ve convinced plenty of people who played original EQ to come try p99 and they get turned off by the guilds like Seal Team and those on blue.