Enchanter is broken and overpowered on P99

[azxten]

Previously I posted a thread about this which I believe was one of the most popular threads ever on this forum. However, Enchanter remains broken and overpowered. I'm now playing an Enchanter myself to better catalog issues.

The main crux of my argument is that other classes such as Necro and Mage have been nerfed in terms of known classic mechanics like fine steel daggers lowering delay while damage stayed the same. If overpowered mechanics like this need to be nerfed then Enchanter is deserving of the same adjustment regardless of if the issues making Enchanter overpowered are classic or not.

HOWEVER, even considering that argument, Enchanter does not seem to operate in a classic manner.

1. Enchanter summoned pets had low ability to tank. On P99 low level enchanter pets seem about as good as mage/necro pets. Level 4-12 enchanter pet should not be able to tank and solo an even con as they can here. They were extremely weak on taking damage and were almost a short "shield" spell which matches the chosen model used for it. Even up to level 30 I'm seeing my summoned pet solo blue mobs.

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/whitewind/gtxt/guides/UChantGuide.htm

"Your first pet spell. Strategy and tactics with pets will be discussed later. Requires 1 Tiny Dagger as a spell component, and your pet is a rogue. Hits for decent damage with low delay, but has weak HP. They don't tank well--and can never be commanded. "

"I don't know the hit points of your pet, but it's never good, so don't rely on your pet to take damage for you very long."

"Summons new animation. 2 Tiny Daggers required, hits harder now, has some more HP's, still no tank. (Little hint... without help, it will never be a tank.)"

"This animation hits for 10 to 14 damage now, and I'm not sure what levels they summon as--anyone want to offer that--and Bashes. Getting to be very good at shelling out fast damage."

2. Tashan is resistable. More evidence exists in the previous thread I posted but it seems to have been deleted so I can't reference the other thread's evidence.

https://fernworks.net/~dyeomans/DownLoads/pages/eq.crgaming.com/spells/spell.asp%3FId=20

"Posted: Sunday, August 19, 2001 Psianne is a remake of my last enchanter Vayan. This spell was almost always resisted on everything that I cast it on. "

3. Mesmerized mobs should not retain their low health if aggro list is cleared.

No evidence to support but when has any mob in EQ not instantly regenned health once it's aggro list is cleared? On P99 you can mez a mob with the small mem blur component and it will retain low health while you avoid any aggro until spell breaks. This allows you to escape bad situations and then return to kill a low health mob that had no aggro.

4. Mesmerize did not mem wipe mobs so often. On P99 I'm mem wiping mobs something like 50% of the time it seems. Where did this rate rate of memory blur from mez come from?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9712.html

"Also mez would make them forget you but only like 1/10."

5. Channeling is still way too successful at lower levels. Starting at level 1 on P99 you can regularly cast through melee without interruption. This was a MAJOR part of making casters weaker early game that is missing from P99 and impacts Enchanter much more than other classes by allowing them to easily charm with 2-3 mobs hitting them which was often a death sentence on live.

http://www.zlizeq.com/Game_Mechanics-Spell_Casting

"Starting out at skill level 1, a new spell caster will have an incredibly difficult time getting any spell off when being hit by melee, but this gradually gets better as their Channeling skill is raised."

The combination of an overpowered tanky low level pet which allows easy leveling to 12, and charm, which used to be very difficult to do alone, with broken channeling that results in living through charm breaks much more often than live, and various questionable mechanics relating to tashan resists, mem blue from mez, and other minor quirks creates an extremely overpowered class that was never this way in classic.

Personally I think the channeling skill is the key to why Enchanter is so overpowered on P99. You seem to start at level 1 with the channeling ability of a max level character. While this makes all casters overpowered compared to classic it is even more impactful to charming Enchanters who can recharm with multiple mobs attacking them. Something that just didn't work on classic. I would really appreciate any help looking into channeling rates on P99 and historical evidence of actual channeling rates in classic.

Does anyone else remember when mez or charm broke and an Enchanter got aggro only for them to struggle and run in circles due to repeated interrupts from melee when trying to mez again? Groups often needed to help Enchanters in this situation but on P99 Enchanters lock down multiple mobs with very little difficulty as they cast through melee in almost all cases with ease and without using their stun spells.

[Noselacri]

I would be very leery of taking any of the really old guides and discussions at face value. I remember reading some hilariously incorrect stuff on Castersrealm back in the day. We're talking about a period of time where people widely believed Harmony was a mana regen buff, and that sitting too close to a mob's spawn location would make it respawn slower.

For instance, when someone says "[Tash] was almost always resisted on everything that I cast it on," you can pretty much dismiss that statement out of hand. Even if we pretend that tash actually had no negative resist modifier or anything, there's no such thing as a spell almost always getting resisted unless you cast it exclusively on raid bosses or something. No spell will ever get resisted almost always unless you're casting it on high reds. I personally remember tash being unresistable back then, but even if that memory should turn out to be inaccurate, the fact that your reference is a post of such questionable legitimacy really invalidates its citation. The way he describes it, tash would have to have had a +50 resist modifier or something, which we know it never did. The guy was probably 15 years old at the time and had no clue what he was talking about.

Unfortunately, since Everquest's inner workings were so poorly documented and the genre was so new back then, posts from random anonymous players of that day are largely worthless.

Channeling does feel off on P99, though. Even at very low levels you can just chain-cast spells through a mob meleeing you and probably not get interrupted at all except from bash. As I recall, channeling through hits didn't really become common until level 20+ when the skill passed the 100 point mark that tends to be the threshold for dependable success with most binary skills (same as hide, feign death, mend, forage, etc.)

Enchanters used to be even more overpowered here back when troll illusion gave full troll regen and Whirl was always a 12 second stun. Those were the days.

[Izmael]

Has the OP played an enc past level 12 ?

[Videri]

3. Mesmerized mobs should not retain their low health if aggro list is cleared.

No evidence to support but when has any mob in EQ not instantly regenned health once it's aggro list is cleared? On P99 you can mez a mob with the small mem blur component and it will retain low health while you avoid any aggro until spell breaks. This allows you to escape bad situations and then return to kill a low health mob that had no aggro.


If you're in line of sight and within aggro range, it will instantly reaggro. Only if you pacify and then mez/blur will the mob begin to regen 5% per tick. They do! People use that to heal their pet up.

I can't weigh in regarding classic enchanting, though. Good luck in your ClassicQuest.

[Wutaan]

This always makes me crack up. Ench is a very strong class but it is only as good as the effort you put into it.

In order to be that apex Enchanter you will NEVER be able to afk, unless in a premade and even then. You want to solo those le epic chanter only mobs, good luck they are tough and you have to be attentive.

It is hard work being a good enchanter.

[azxten]

This always makes me crack up. Ench is a very strong class but it is only as good as the effort you put into it.

In order to be that apex Enchanter you will NEVER be able to afk, unless in a premade and even then. You want to solo those le epic chanter only mobs, good luck they are tough and you have to be attentive.

It is hard work being a good enchanter.

Not lining up with my experience so far. I'm soloing rooms full of mobs including named camps and it's pretty easy. Like I've said, it seems easiest because I channel through ridiculous amounts of melee damage. I don't even use my AE stun I just eat the damage.

I'm also pretty suspicious about the Gate spell on P99. Even before I played Enchanter it just seems to have some kind of bonus success rate or something. Cast Gate with 5 mobs on you? It seems to mysteriously channel much more than it ever did on live and the "gate collapse" is way more common.

[Googi]

cries enchanters are overpowered

plays one to record results

[DMN]

Previously I posted a thread about this which I believe was one of the most popular threads ever on this forum. However, Enchanter remains broken and overpowered. I'm now playing an Enchanter myself to better catalog issues.


Sounds like you were operating with forgone conclusions. Never the best way to approach any issue empirically.


The main crux of my argument is that other classes such as Necro and Mage have been nerfed in terms of known classic mechanics like fine steel daggers lowering delay while damage stayed the same. If overpowered mechanics like this need to be nerfed then Enchanter is deserving of the same adjustment regardless of if the issues making Enchanter overpowered are classic or not.

Enchanters were also "nerfed" by the FS dagger issue, and mages were massively buffed mage pets couldn't equip ANY weapons for a long time in classic but have since day one on green. So the "crux" of your argument seems pretty weak.


1. Enchanter summoned pets had low ability to tank. On P99 low level enchanter pets seem about as good as mage/necro pets. Level 4-12 enchanter pet should not be able to tank and solo an even con as they can here. They were extremely weak on taking damage and were almost a short "shield" spell which matches the chosen model used for it. Even up to level 30 I'm seeing my summoned pet solo blue mobs.


They still have low ability to tank. You need to have good enough slow to keep them alive. as time goes by. Pets were rarely used by enchanters back in the classic time period because the enchanter was considered a pure "grouping" and the pets would break mez's which was considered the main feature of the class(mainly crowd control/buffing) class. You went further to quote smone who said the enchanter pets are rogues. Careful here maybe you are gonna get enchanters buffed instead, eh? Also why you have to be careful trust what some random joe has to say.


2. Tashan is resistable. More evidence exists in the previous thread I posted but it seems to have been deleted so I can't reference the other thread's evidence.


I'm the one that brought up tash being resistible during early classic time period. it ws changed a couple months after launch, around the same time they got clarity added to their spell list. Prior to that its resist rate was similar to root spells. The quote from 2001 was obviously someone that didnt know about the level capped resist or cast on a magic resist mob. it was changed Waaaaaaay before 2001.




3. Mesmerized mobs should not retain their low health if aggro list is cleared.

No evidence to support


These is a very good reason you have no evidence to support. Can you guess what it is?



4. Mesmerize did not mem wipe mobs so often. On P99 I'm mem wiping mobs something like 50% of the time it seems. Where did this rate rate of memory blur from mez come from?


i think the the memory wipe aspect of classic EQ was indeed somewhat different but unfortunately I don't remember the exact details. What I recall was that at low levels memblur worked extremely well and as levels increased it slowly but progressively became a bit more difficult to land the blur.

I do know that it was nowhere near 1% though.I remember in sebilis back then a typical pull would go something like me dazzling the adds, tash slow the main target, then move to the next one debuff one with tash and slow, then hit it twice with memory wipe and you'd wipe the hate about 9 out of 10 times. The enchanter would then tell the group which mob was going to be next(the debuff/wiped one), while the enchanter then moved to debuffing/wiping the next mob and potentially rmezzinging mobs if/when needed.



5. Channeling is still way too successful at lower levels. Starting at level 1 on P99 you can regularly cast through melee without interruption. This was a MAJOR part of making casters weaker early game that is missing from P99 and impacts Enchanter much more than other classes by allowing them to easily charm with 2-3 mobs hitting them which was often a death sentence on live.



Considering how fast enchanter stuns cast, if anything a generous channeling check helps any other class more, since enchanters already have the tool to solve that problem available. You really seem to lack basic understanding of enchantress/the game general which makes me suspicious of any of your other claims.

[Zipity]

Previously I posted a thread about this which I believe was one of the most popular threads ever on this forum.


Troll feeding the enchanters for attention, strong play.

[Baler]

I feel like much of the "overpowered" feeling enchanters put off is due to game mechanics and knowledge being far more understood and available than in 1999-2001.

Enchanters is pretty squishy in my opinion. And if we're talking velious end game gear, every class can shine.

[cd288]

“Hey so remember that other thread I posted complaining about classic things? Well nobody did anything when I cried and demanded it so I’m gonna try it again by making another thread”

[Castle2.0]

You think enchanters are OP levels 1-12?

I solo'd PoD on my 50 Enchanter. I agree, Enchanters are too OP levels 1-12.

*greedily rubs his hands together hoping levels 1-12 (when ENC is weakest) get harder and there is less competition at the top*

[Ivory]

You think their summoned pets is OP?.... oh boyy....just wait until you find out about their charm spells :o

[cubiczar]

This is one of the most tired subjects on this forum. If you have classic evidence for how things were in 1999 then put them in the bugs forum. That includes things that are nerfs to other classes like the fs dagger issue, or nerfs to enchanters like Tash being resistable early on, or channeling being too good (which like someone else mentioned makes other classes better as well). But whatever it is bring your evidence (not your feels) and put them in the bug forums so maybe something will get changed rather than just starting yet another thread here.

None of the classes are balanced with each other, this isn't WoW so if you want class balance you are in the wrong place.

[azxten]

So I did some testing of my main hypothesis, that Enchanter is OP because channeling isn't working right.

On a level 1 Druid with 0 channeling skill I was interrupted every cast. No chance to channel. I then went and put 1 point into channeling.

Out of 30 channeling skill checks, 9 were interrupts, and 21 were successful.

Just some starting data and final channeling skill was 9. Level 1 channeling is ~70% successful? Seems a bit off, I'll do more testing.

Also something interesting I noticed which may just be random given the small data sample is that if I was fighting on a hill where pushback seemed to move me further as I slid down the hill my interrupt rate was higher than if I positioned myself to be pushed uphill. To avoid this I threw out a couple samples and only took data from flat terrain. Data gathered may need to be while positioned in a corner to minimize push interruption vs hit interrupt chance.

http://www.angelfire.com/nt/com1/playg.html

Lots of player comments that dexterity impacts chance to regain concentration. This link seems to support that as it was an official document.

"Dexterity:
This is your hand/eye coordination and is used in combat accuracy and spell casting capability. This is used in calculating your missile combat skills and aids in determining if you are interrupted when you are hit while casting a spell. "

[azxten]

Looking at EQEmu code at least dex is not part of the calculation at first glance, not sure on ChannelChanceSpells potentially having a stat component but doesn't seem like it.

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/1106e404c7c822b97c7ecd7d002ce3bd9b1b07fe/zone/spells.cpp

I find this interesting:

// modify the chance based on how many times they were hit
// but cap it so it's not that large a factor
if(attacked_count > 15) attacked_count = 15;

channelchance -= attacked_count * 2;

No hits past 15 during your spell cast will impact your interrupt chance.

// max 93% chance at 252 skill
channelchance = 30 + GetSkill(EQ::skills::SkillChanneling) / 400.0f * 100;

Magic numbers? This seems to suggest that you get 30% chance to channel at 1 skill which scales to 93% chance at 252 skill. If that is how P99 works I'm pretty sure there was no guaranteed 30% success rate simply for having the skill in live.

//avoid the square root...
distance_moved = d_x * d_x + d_y * d_y;
// if you moved 1 unit, that's 25% off your chance to regain.
// if you moved 2, you lose 100% off your chance
distancemod = distance_moved * 25;
channelchance -= distancemod;

I made a hotkey to get a loc before/after casting when taking a hit. Generally a hit seems to move your character about .01-.04 on the X/Y coordinate. If the distance calculation for interrupts is based on a full X/Y value movement I'm pretty sure this means it would be doing a calculation that has the least impact compared to skill level and number of times hit.

This means at 1 channeling skill you have a 30% chance to cast, if you're hit 1 time it removes 2% chance up to being hit 15 times which removes 30% chance. The distance moved calculation is mostly irrelevant for individual fights but can be significant if you're being hit 10+ times during your cast (10 hits *.06 aggregate movement per hit = .60*25 = 15% reduction).

EQEmu randoms a number up to 100 and if it's higher than your channel chance you fail to channel.

Biggest chance to channel is the built in 30%, then up to another 63% from skill. Biggest loss is being hit itself as each hit guarantees 2% loss to chance up to a max of 15 hits, and then movement which can be countered by walking into damage or using game geometry to minimize movement.

After looking at all of this I suspect that 30% built in bonus is what isn't classic and makes things too successful compared to classic at lower levels. You only get hit 1-2 times for a 2-4% chance reduction and very minimal push movement.

Why isn't dex accounted for?

Why did my testing on P99 show a ~70% success rate for channeling at level 1 when EQEmu code seems to support a 30% chance at such low skill?

[Tethler]

Just move the clarity spell line from enchanter to wizard. Things will work themselves out.

[azxten]

Additional testing of push modification of X/Y coord reveals some interesting things based on terrain geometry. It is possible to create optimal angles between yourself and the pushing mob in relation to the X/Y grid that can minimize the amount of push even eliminating it entirely in one of the two axes.

Who would have thought that your position in relation to the mob and the X/Y grid can add or remove multiple percentage points of channeling chance?

[cd288]

Did you really just do all this testing but offer zero evidence that’s things were different during classic? Lol

Like yeah, cool you gathered some data for yourself. But that data just proves that X is X currently...not that X was actually Y 20 years ago

[azxten]

Did you really just do all this testing but offer zero evidence that’s things were different during classic? Lol

Like yeah, cool you gathered some data for yourself. But that data just proves that X is X currently...not that X was actually Y 20 years ago

Calm down buddy.

So with further testing I can say that video lag results in more player push. Given the code that EQEmu uses this would result in significantly higher interrupt chance.

Talking a change from 2% chance reduction if you get hit once to 200% chance reduction if you get hit once and a change in moving X/Y axis from .02 to .2.

My new theory is that in EQ live players experienced video lag and lower performance and the EQ client actually moves your player model more if it is lagging when you get hit.

You can test this by taking a /loc before and after being hit and then do the same when alt tabbed to induce some video processing delay (on most systems).

Thus the final conclusion is that similar to Bard AE kiting getting nerfed channeling chance should be about 10x less likely on P99 due to the types of computers people played on back in 1999.

[ScottBerta]

I feel enchanters are over powered as well.. could have been made into two classes. One class specializing in charm/Stun/slow.. the other specializing in melee buffs/mana regen and CC.

I do like the comment made about moving clarity to Wizard. That would even things out a lot and force enchanters to use their mana tap spells more often. Wizard with clarity capability would put it on a more even playing field with other int casters especially enc and necro. For wiz even if it was like a short duration self only mana regen spell would be fine. Help to alleviate the long med breaks.

[azxten]

As an example here is my X/Y coords before/after being hit once with no video lag compared to alt tabbing to simulate P99 video lag.

No video lag:

1.76, -2215.70
1.78, -2215.74

No lag delta:

.02, .04

Video lag:

1.87, -2215.87
2.02, -2216.11

Lag delta:

.15, .24

Basically a 5-10x increase in push distance from a single mob attack with some video processing lag. I'm fairly sure this is a big part of why channeling failed more often in classic as I imagine the client still resulted in more push if you had video processing lag which would have been common back then when EQ was a new game. More movement from mob attacks resulted in higher failure rates as we've always known channeling was more or less successful depending on the delta of your movement at start and end of casting.

This makes all casters easier than they were in classic but also makes charming significantly easier as casting the Enchanter AE stun, charm, mez, etc would be difficult with such exaggerated pushback.

In short, P99 Enchanter charm is similarly broken to Bard AE kiting with the reasoning that it was not technically capable to so easily cast through melee back then on the systems we had. I rest my case. Possible but risk was significantly higher same as Bard AE kiting.

[Tist]

What about necro, mage, even bard?

Enchanter pets are not strong at all past like level 20. They get owned by blues and have no regen and the enchanter does not have heal pet. Charm is also not reliable, at least for me until later levels and more charisma. On green I was getting charm breaks under 30 seconds OFTEN while leveling. They just started holding reliably after 200 + Charisma and even then it is RNG.

Mesmerized mobs retain their low health if you are still in their vicinity. If you outrange them or reduce vision with sooth then mez will start recovering their hp.

[aaezil]

Its like everyone forgot that a lot of the changes on this server are because of some random 15 year old’s post from 2000. Wonder how many of the changes put in so far are accidentally incorrect. Having played since day 1 i can tell you a few things here are wrong but of course i have no old forum post to convince anyone

[zodium]

Its like everyone forgot that a lot of the changes on this server are because of some random 15 year old’s post from 2000. Wonder how many of the changes put in so far are accidentally incorrect. Having played since day 1 i can tell you a few things here are wrong but of course i have no old forum post to convince anyone

tbf this is what real academic history is like too so it's probably the best that can be done.

[skorge]

Its like everyone forgot that a lot of the changes on this server are because of some random 15 year old’s post from 2000. Wonder how many of the changes put in so far are accidentally incorrect. Having played since day 1 i can tell you a few things here are wrong but of course i have no old forum post to convince anyone

True to a degree. They tend to only change small things without an insane amount of proof. Small things, such as the way the golra's path on that little isle in Tim Deep. Those you still need proof but the proof can be less strong - it could be some comments or something like that. But major changes need a lot of solid proof.

As someone who has been here since 2010 and have submitted bugs, had some things changed, I can also tell you that I was wrong a good bit too in my memory. Many people here are in their 40s+, our memory aint the best, lol...so I have learned, even at 2010, to not trust my memory when it comes to details in this era.

[turbosilk]

The spirit off the game was in forcing people to group. Ench have become the ultimate anti-group anti-classic class. Running through various dungeons picking named camps off solo.

A prime example is Estrella. I was in kedge a month ago and estrella had wiped about 10 castle players attempting her. While I was helping them cr an ench came in and solo killed her which apparently is how she is normally killed on pop.

Nilbog, please review this in the spirit of classic. There appears to be one class manipulating the spirit of cleric and denying others the grouping experience by soloing group mobs easily that they should not be able to.

[turbosilk]

Coming soon to a Kunark near you. 15 solo ench in seb holding named camps. 75 people waiting at zone in for an ench to log off hopefully before another ench zones in.

[BlackBellamy]

I don't know how Enchanters were in classic because I didn't play one and really didn't pay attention.

But they are the strongest class by far at this time. It's not even close. If there is a tough camp somewhere, more likely than not there's a chanter there. I mean just look at lguk at any off-time.

[azeth]

The only thing broken about chanters is that charm lasts way, WAY too long. Remember when Dire Charm became a thing... and suddenly enchanters became capable?

That was why. Charm should be breaking *constantly*

Charm is also not reliable, at least for me until later levels and more charisma. On green I was getting charm breaks under 30 seconds OFTEN while leveling. They just started holding reliably after 200 + Charisma and even then it is RNG..

Your experience with charm breaking < 30 seconds should be the experience of a classic/kunark/velious enchanter with 255 cha. This spell should be lasting like 100 seconds on a perfect RNG roll and 10-50 seconds otherwise.

[Tunabros]

Has the OP played an enc past level 12 ?

[larsbars]

Mesmerize does not mem wipe at a 50/50 rate. I use it to kill casters after breaking charm in between nukes and it rarely causes health to increase (which is tied to mem blur). I’d say 1/10 is more accurate.

[cd288]

Calm down buddy.

So with further testing I can say that video lag results in more player push. Given the code that EQEmu uses this would result in significantly higher interrupt chance.

Talking a change from 2% chance reduction if you get hit once to 200% chance reduction if you get hit once and a change in moving X/Y axis from .02 to .2.

My new theory is that in EQ live players experienced video lag and lower performance and the EQ client actually moves your player model more if it is lagging when you get hit.

You can test this by taking a /loc before and after being hit and then do the same when alt tabbed to induce some video processing delay (on most systems).

Thus the final conclusion is that similar to Bard AE kiting getting nerfed channeling chance should be about 10x less likely on P99 due to the types of computers people played on back in 1999.

Okay so just to recap here, you're doing a lot of "testing" and writing lengthy summaries of it in this thread without providing any evidence of what things were like in 1999? Okay got it.

I think we can move this to resolved. Or go post this and your "theory" in the bug reports forum and you'll get responded to with a request for real evidence of what things were like in 1999 and THEN you can move it to resolved.

[DMN]

Just move the clarity spell line from enchanter to wizard. Things will work themselves out.

And move torpor to druids while we are at it.
BTW, Thanks for reminding me : torpor actually drained your mana and I'm not sure at what point they changed this, hell maybe it should stil be draining mana on blue.

[Barik]

Enjoy your free everquest.

[Googi]

The spirit off the game was in forcing people to group. Ench have become the ultimate anti-group anti-classic class. Running through various dungeons picking named camps off solo.

A prime example is Estrella. I was in kedge a month ago and estrella had wiped about 10 castle players attempting her. While I was helping them cr an ench came in and solo killed her which apparently is how she is normally killed on pop.

Nilbog, please review this in the spirit of classic. There appears to be one class manipulating the spirit of cleric and denying others the grouping experience by soloing group mobs easily that they should not be able to.

the 10 people probably cleared her room, or ench got VERY LUCKY pacifying the room

if you get her single and dispell its manageable, its easy to get trained. I promise no ench is going in there 100% solo and clearing everything unless he has game or server is 100% Broken, those mermaids were very MR on live

[Dolalin]

Here are the classic bugs with Charm that I compiled while trawling newsgroups and mailing lists:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359961

Charm in Classic EQ died a death of a thousand cuts. Those are some of the cuts. A bunch of small things that added up to make charming a giant pain.

I do also believe Channeling is too powerful on P99, I'll dig some on this and see what I can find.

[azxten]

Okay so just to recap here, you're doing a lot of "testing" and writing lengthy summaries of it in this thread without providing any evidence of what things were like in 1999? Okay got it.

I think we can move this to resolved. Or go post this and your "theory" in the bug reports forum and you'll get responded to with a request for real evidence of what things were like in 1999 and THEN you can move it to resolved.

Lower system performance is a known fact and was referenced by the devs in nerfing AE spells.

I showed that lower video performance increases push amount per hit from mobs which directly relates to channeling.

Why are you so against making things classic?

[kjs86z]

go outside

[azxten]

go outside

60 Enchanter in raid guild tells me to go outside

I'm literally outside right now looking at a beautiful view. Thanks.

[DMN]

Lower system performance is a known fact and was referenced by the devs in nerfing AE spells.

I showed that lower video performance increases push amount per hit from mobs which directly relates to channeling.

Why are you so against making things classic?

It's an interesting subject, though as I told you it will simply make enchanters more powerful instead of less relative to other classes because other classes don't have 1.0 second casting stun spell.

It also wouldnt surpise me its true and it reminds me of the fall sensitivty of people with poor connections to the server,especially after kunark was released and you had tons of cliffs/hills to navigatepeople with bad connectiosn would get murdered on those hills.

The problem here is you are alleging poor performance was the issue, and hence would fall in the same category of all the other thigns that shouldnt be going on like brds swarm kitting dozens of mobs which no one could do due to server instablity but we have a stable server here now so we have to deal with it.

[azxten]

The problem here is you are alleging poor performance was the issue, and hence would fall in the same category of all the other thigns that shouldnt be going on like brds swarm kitting dozens of mobs which no one could do due to server instablity but we have a stable server here now so we have to deal with it.

I kited 100+ mobs as a Bard until AE was nerfed. Both Chardok AE and Bard AE kiting were nerfed using the "modern technology/stability" argument. I think Channeling should be as well and if Enchanter really has no impact from this in terms of their OP charming then so be it. My experiencing playing an Enchanter though tells me it will make a major difference even with AE stun. At a minimum it will require using the stuns/mana whereas right now I just eat damage, cast through it, and regen with illusion between fights.

Also the story about Estrella is accurate. Enchanter charm is disruptive to others as it allows trivializing content and disruption. Last time I posted this thread I was told to "play an enchanter before you assume it's so easy." Well, I'm playing one now and it's even more overpowered than I thought at first and just as easy.

So we have the same reasoning to nerf channeling or charm as existed to nerf AE spells.

[greenspectre]

This feels like somebody playing Old School ('93/'94) MTG in modern day and complaining that blue is busted.

Yeah, that's kinda the point.

[DMN]

This feels like somebody playing Old School ('93/'94) MTG in modern day and complaining that blue is busted.

Yeah, that's kinda the point.

You don't think blue was busted with 4 ancestral recalls, 4 mana drains, 4 time walks?

[charmcitysking]

go outside

[turbosilk]

the 10 people probably cleared her room, or ench got VERY LUCKY pacifying the room

if you get her single and dispell its manageable, its easy to get trained. I promise no ench is going in there 100% solo and clearing everything unless he has game or server is 100% Broken, those mermaids were very MR on live

I'm sorry you promised but that just means you haven't been in Kedge, your statement is incorrect. The mermaids in the room are easily pacified and there are ench regulars that show up in Kedge and solo Estrella every 3 days like clockwork. Do the ench die sometimes? Yes but they are max level and just bind in the safe alcove nearby and start over. I know because I've watched it happen several times since.

Whatever solo ench showed up would alway grab Shellara who is always up but the last 2 solo kills I saw Shellara wasn't used just a reg mermaid.

PS Do I have their names? Yes I do.

[GnomeCaptain]

Seems pretty obvious OP has never played a Chanter.

My blue main is a Chanter, and it is definitely the toughest class to play well. And it's extremely easy to die over and over.

[turbosilk]

And move torpor to druids while we are at it.
BTW, Thanks for reminding me : torpor actually drained your mana and I'm not sure at what point they changed this, hell maybe it should stil be draining mana on blue.

You may be thinking of the Voice of the Berserker line of spells that drains all of your mana.

[DMN]

You may be thinking of the Voice of the Berserker line of spells that drains all of your mana.

Nope. Torpor. ws considered pretty mediocre spell until they removed the mana drain on it. It was actually balanced then, too. instead of idiotic overpoweredness it became.

[enjchanter]

Okay so

1. Enchanter is easy , the only real challenge on a fundamental level is having Gina triggers to notify you of a charm break. It take a look at any enchanter who solos chardok unironically. Doesnt get any easier than that.

2. Yes enchanters are broken. I can solo 95% of group content as an enchanter and 90% of that is doable without any excessive level of gear. I solo chottals that are sitting up at random times. I can go down and solo a khelkar before bed. I can solo the drusella camp for 12+ hours semi afk including the drusella kill herself. Shit, weve recently seen 2 enchanters who solod fungi king. I intentionally decline all group offers but it's literally not worth the enchanters time to carry over half the weight of a group with their charm pet and then split the profits. Enchanters are also S tier at combat manipulation. I can literally pull 10 mobs, catch them all with my pet and mezzes, lull/blur the ones I didnt want and then fight the target solo while the rest just go home. In most situations this is faster than any monk or necro could split. Some arguement can be made that enchanters are lumped in with the dkp farmer classes like (afk non racing bard, necro , wizard. druid, alt rogues) because they have little use in a raid environment so you can argue that mayhe this is their "balance"? Idk. However this is a small portion of the game. Plus enchanters who raid solely on enchanters are usually the trash tier kind that only know how to buff so it's best to not become one of those in first place. They're one of the best cure shield holders though! Lol

3. OP sounds like he doesnt know how to play enchanter or is doing content that is trivial innately. Not using stuns is stupid. Stunning a mob is so so sooo much better than eating the damage , reacting your rune then regenning up (I assume you dont have ring 10 , aob or zland heart since you're actually using troll illusion). Animation pets are okay for content that doesnt warrant just charming something to squash it faster then ditching your pet, like xicotl in MM or something.

4. The only reason there are 9000 iksar monk mains and not 9000 high elf enchanter mains is because doing 90dps with a stick is more fun than doing 200dps with a pet frog apparently

[Baler]

If we nerf all npc's that will solve this problem.
Reduce all NPC hp & dmg by 90%. Problem solved.

[Googi]

whats gina triggers?

does it tell you when charm is going to pop?

[DMN]

whats gina triggers?

does it tell you when charm is going to pop?

No.. it just tells you what any moron who can read a yellow text message could already tell.

I don't know if his whole post is supposed to be sarcasm or stupidity frankly.

[cd288]

I kited 100+ mobs as a Bard until AE was nerfed. Both Chardok AE and Bard AE kiting were nerfed using the "modern technology/stability" argument. I think Channeling should be as well and if Enchanter really has no impact from this in terms of their OP charming then so be it. My experiencing playing an Enchanter though tells me it will make a major difference even with AE stun. At a minimum it will require using the stuns/mana whereas right now I just eat damage, cast through it, and regen with illusion between fights.

Also the story about Estrella is accurate. Enchanter charm is disruptive to others as it allows trivializing content and disruption. Last time I posted this thread I was told to "play an enchanter before you assume it's so easy." Well, I'm playing one now and it's even more overpowered than I thought at first and just as easy.

So we have the same reasoning to nerf channeling or charm as existed to nerf AE spells.

Lol so this guy is just salty about not being able to AoE as many mobs as he wants and disrupt zones, so now he wants to have other classes nerfed. Got it.

[DMN]

Lol so this guy is just salty about not being able to AoE as many mobs as he wants and disrupt zones, so now he wants to have other classes nerfed. Got it.

You are prolly on to something here. would also explain the fixation on nerfing channeling.

[azxten]

Lol so this guy is just salty about not being able to AoE as many mobs as he wants and disrupt zones, so now he wants to have other classes nerfed. Got it.

I've played almost every class to 50+ on P99. I don't even really play anymore other than to entertain my young children who like the simple graphics and to "knock down" decaying skeletons. I rarely play an Enchanter now having already leveled my main to 50 and getting a manastone which I also had on blue. I just want P99 to be classic. That's all. Green relaunch was far from classic and one of the biggest things was Enchanters carrying groups with charm or soloing easily. I wouldn't point to any other class as being significantly "non-classic" except Enchanter.

I think you main an Enchanter/caster and you're upset you might get nerfed. How long ago did Bard AE get nerfed? Like years at this point? Yeah I'm really holding a grudge.

I complained about ZEM often as well and that finally got changed and everyone seems pretty happy about it. There are just a few things on P99 that are glaringly non-classic and should be addressed. I reported low HP Kith mobs. In fact, my code is also in the files you download to play here when I reverse engineered the spells file so Telin or whatever his name is could make visuals more classic. When your spells come out of your hands instead of floating straight up in the air thank me.

No, Enchanter just needs a nerf and ruins the classic atmosphere.

Item recharging, Enchanter charming, over cap INT/WIS mana amounts, and excessive interference from GMs in minor player disputes ("rule lawyering") are the only things left in my opinion to make things closer to true classic. I'd only put effort into playing here again if the raid scene wasn't 90% petitioning GMs, crying, and sending videos for review instead of actual competition.

Some people just don't want to play classic EQ they want to pretend they're playing classic EQ with enhanced channeling and other bullshit that makes P99 way easier than actual live EQ was. I'm a stickler for punishing challenging games and P99 doesn't hold up to live in that regard.

[turbosilk]

And move torpor to druids while we are at it.
BTW, Thanks for reminding me : torpor actually drained your mana and I'm not sure at what point they changed this, hell maybe it should stil be draining mana on blue.

Last time I checked shaman weren't soloing all of the traditional group camped named mobs.

[Googi]

I don't even really play anymore

Posts bunch of garbage and wants all these changes

see you in thurgadin

[Vokhine]

You do realize this does come at a cost though right? Performing as a chanter requires focus at all times. You don't get to be a half-afk lazy milking a group for exp while sailing to max level; a much bigger problem on the server at this time. I can't even tell you how many times I've seen Necro's feign death at a camp with pet on guard camping a named...

[astuce999]

I've played almost every class to 50+ on P99. I don't even really play anymore other than to entertain my young children who like the simple graphics and to "knock down" decaying skeletons. I rarely play an Enchanter now having already leveled my main to 50 and getting a manastone which I also had on blue. I just want P99 to be classic. That's all. Green relaunch was far from classic and one of the biggest things was Enchanters carrying groups with charm or soloing easily. I wouldn't point to any other class as being significantly "non-classic" except Enchanter.

I think you main an Enchanter/caster and you're upset you might get nerfed. How long ago did Bard AE get nerfed? Like years at this point? Yeah I'm really holding a grudge.

I complained about ZEM often as well and that finally got changed and everyone seems pretty happy about it. There are just a few things on P99 that are glaringly non-classic and should be addressed. I reported low HP Kith mobs. In fact, my code is also in the files you download to play here when I reverse engineered the spells file so Telin or whatever his name is could make visuals more classic. When your spells come out of your hands instead of floating straight up in the air thank me.

No, Enchanter just needs a nerf and ruins the classic atmosphere.

Item recharging, Enchanter charming, over cap INT/WIS mana amounts, and excessive interference from GMs in minor player disputes ("rule lawyering") are the only things left in my opinion to make things closer to true classic. I'd only put effort into playing here again if the raid scene wasn't 90% petitioning GMs, crying, and sending videos for review instead of actual competition.

Some people just don't want to play classic EQ they want to pretend they're playing classic EQ with enhanced channeling and other bullshit that makes P99 way easier than actual live EQ was. I'm a stickler for punishing challenging games and P99 doesn't hold up to live in that regard.

Too much truth, I wasn't prepared. Won't affect the trolls, but it's very well said sir.

I for one thank you,

Astuce

[Jibartik]

It would be so awesome if I was the guy that got to have a wish granted because the genie would be like, you seriously want to just go play ever quest again?

Would be so disappointing to find out the enchanter charm just recks you and all my plans failed.

The ultimate monkeys paw story.

[Googi]

in lots of games they make charmed pets do 90% less damage for a reason

monsters were always overpowered in everquest, charm was VERY unreliable on retail, especially pre pop

it would pop most of the time almost instantly, here its stupid

[turbosilk]

in lots of games they make charmed pets do 90% less damage for a reason

monsters were always overpowered in everquest, charm was VERY unreliable on retail, especially pre pop

it would pop most of the time almost instantly, here its stupid

No need for this imo. Just fix channelling and charm lasting too long on average. Lulls are too successful as well.

[larsbars]

No need for this imo. Just fix channelling and charm lasting too long on average. Lulls are too successful as well.

How you can think calm is reliable in green is beyond me. I get resisted at a 50% rate on low blues.

[NPC]

Previously I posted a thread about this which I believe was one of the most popular threads ever on this forum. However, Enchanter remains broken and overpowered. I'm now playing an Enchanter myself to better catalog issues.

3. Mesmerized mobs should not retain their low health if aggro list is cleared.

No evidence to support but when has any mob in EQ not instantly regenned health once it's aggro list is cleared? On P99 you can mez a mob with the small mem blur component and it will retain low health while you avoid any aggro until spell breaks. This allows you to escape bad situations and then return to kill a low health mob that had no aggro.


So I power leveled a paladin on live back in the day by using my 60th level wizard to beat down a spectre to 1% heal, logged off an immedaitely logged by 17th level paladin back in an the spectre would still be about 5-6% an still snared and fleeing from being so low on heal. My paladin would very slowly finish them off. Got almost a full yellow a kill, he hit 34th level in 5-6 hours. Health did not immediately regen when the agro list is wiped. It was very situational, usually if the mob kills their target that happens. I believe it also depended on how low on hps the mob was. If it was 1% it would still regen slow, but if it was around 10-15% or higher, then it would regen quickly while returning to the spawning point. I think 1-9% or so the mob is still in panic mode an will not return to the spawn point till higher in health.

[Jibartik]

broken or not, p99 enchanter is one of my favorite video games!

[turbosilk]

How you can think calm is reliable in green is beyond me. I get resisted at a 50% rate on low blues.

And the ench I run with is 95%+ on lull. I recommend maxxing chr instead of int.

[larsbars]

And the ench I run with is 95%+ on lull. I recommend maxxing chr instead of int.

I have 225 cha with buffs. Lvl 40. Maybe I’m fighting higher lvl mobs compared to my lvl? Even on greens I get criticized resists around 5% it seems.

[turbosilk]

I have 225 cha with buffs. Lvl 40. Maybe I’m fighting higher lvl mobs compared to my lvl? Even on greens I get criticized resists around 5% it seems.

I don't know what to tell you. My experience with lull and my friend is mostly in the Lord area of lguk, lguk king, efreeti camp and kedge. These are are 40+ mobs up to 49. If it was 50% it would be much more fun and interesting. And various ench would be more hard pressed to solo Estrella.

[larsbars]

I don't know what to tell you. My experience with lull and my friend is mostly in the Lord area of lguk, lguk king, efreeti camp and kedge. These are are 40+ mobs up to 49. If it was 50% it would be much more fun and interesting. And various ench would be more hard pressed to solo Estrella.

Interesting. Well I guess i'm looking forward to the future haha.

[charmcitysking]

Tried LGuk King three times yesterday. Crit resists all three times when trying to pacify the room (twice on a knight and once on a shaman). Died once, escaped through the portal twice.

EnChAnTeR BrOkEn

[Vaarsuvius]

Not lining up with my experience so far. I'm soloing rooms full of mobs including named camps and it's pretty easy. Like I've said, it seems easiest because I channel through ridiculous amounts of melee damage. I don't even use my AE stun I just eat the damage.

I'm also pretty suspicious about the Gate spell on P99. Even before I played Enchanter it just seems to have some kind of bonus success rate or something. Cast Gate with 5 mobs on you? It seems to mysteriously channel much more than it ever did on live and the "gate collapse" is way more common.

Curious what private server with fancy rules you're playing on.

Last couple of times I tried casting anything as a caster (mag | shm) with maxed Channeling (and higher AC & dex in the case the shaman) with a handflul of mobs trying to kick my teeth in, it resulted in a "Loading please wait.."screen without Gating.
I'm not even talking about mobs that con blue+, even a pack of green mobs can ruin your attempts at casting

[derpcake2]

p1999 enchanters are classic

continue the drivel

[Bondrake]

OP was bullied in school by enchanters and is now taking revenge trying to get them nerfed.

[cd288]

Curious what private server with fancy rules you're playing on.

Last couple of times I tried casting anything as a caster (mag | shm) with maxed Channeling (and higher AC & dex in the case the shaman) with a handflul of mobs trying to kick my teeth in, it resulted in a "Loading please wait.."screen without Gating.
I'm not even talking about mobs that con blue+, even a pack of green mobs can ruin your attempts at casting

Yeah see this is when OP proved to us that he's talking out his you know what. Multiple mobs you will absolutely get interrupted a lot if they are all hitting you at once.

As far as soloing multiple mobs, multiple classes can do that. That doesn't make a class OP, that's just classic EQ. Are Druids or Wizards OP because they can quad kite? Are Necros OP because they can split with FD, fear kite, etc.?

[Toad1]

Tried LGuk King three times yesterday. Crit resists all three times when trying to pacify the room (twice on a knight and once on a shaman). Died once, escaped through the portal twice.

EnChAnTeR BrOkEn

Hard at 60 impossible at 50

[azxten]

Just did a test fight to show you what I'm seeing. Fight was 3 dark blue mobs on initial engage and 1 added for more exp as pet wasn't low enough. I got 2 full exp kills and 1 pet exp kills. Had 1/2 my mana left at end and 2 bubbles of health. Almost had the fourth mob but my health was low due to lack of rune so I just gated out after channeling root.

I've been doing this for 3 levels now and it pretty much always goes this way.

[Thu Oct 01 13:57:53 2020] You appear.
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:53 2020] You begin casting Tashani.
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:54 2020] A goblin priest glances nervously about.
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:54 2020] An ice goblin kicks YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:54 2020] An ice goblin tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:54 2020] You are stunned!
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:54 2020] A goblin priest bashes YOU for 3 points of damage.
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:54 2020] A goblin priest hits YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:55 2020] An ice goblin tries to kick YOU, but misses!
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:55 2020] An ice goblin tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:56 2020] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:56 2020] You are unstunned.
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:57 2020] You begin casting Charm.
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:57 2020] An ice goblin tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:57 2020] An ice goblin tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:57 2020] A goblin priest hits YOU for 26 points of damage.
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:58 2020] An ice goblin hits YOU for 11 points of damage.
[Thu Oct 01 13:57:59 2020] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.

First mob misses, the other two hit me, regain casting.

In the course of this fight I did a channeling check 7 times and 6 of them were successful. I'll post the full logs if you don't believe it. This happens every single time I'm not just picking a lucky fight. Everyone should be able to admit channeling is too successful on P99 or maybe your computers suck and it relates to the video performance I mentioned.

I'm guessing people will try to say this is just low levels or something but channeling is supposed to be worse at low level. I've played here to 60 multiple times. It doesn't seem to be any different if the mobs are hitting double attacks or even if there are 5 mobs on me. Channeling works almost every time unless you get stunned. Also I have no idea what Enchanter was like at higher levels on EQ classic. I'm basing my argument on channeling level 1-30ish and Enchanter 1-30ish. Maybe in classic Enchanter was OP at max level, I don't know, and channeling here seems roughly accurate at max level but nowhere near accurate at lower levels.

Really? A late 20s Enchanter channels 6/7 casts? Not classic.

I checked another log I made where I had rune up at the start of the fight. I had 5 channeling checks and 4 of them were successful.

Actual classic EQ I remember regularly dying level 20-30 because of FREQUENT root resists and interruptions. The kind of thing where I'd throw my keyboard across the room because you resist root 3 times in a row and get interrupted 5 times and die. This was fighting a single mob. NEVER happens on P99. I just walk in, no rune, 3 mobs hittng me and cast charm right through it. Over and over for 3 levels now.

[azxten]

Exclusive to Red99:
Added a 5% per attack reduction in channeling chance.

Hmmm...

So Red99 channeling was too successful? Kind of like item recharging got nerfed there too. Seems like these rules should be on all servers.

[azxten]

EDIT: Just for random information, Channeling is for continuing to cast when being hit (taking damage), not stuns, bash, push, other movement, "interrupt casting" abilities (similar to the paladin Force of Disruption AA), et cetera.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/channeling-mastery.3681/

This thread is kind of interesting. It's about the removal of AA abilities that were supposed to improve channeling chance. It says channeling got set to 100% success because of "long standing issues" with channeling and so the AAs which increased chance to 90% made chance to cast worse after this change.

The quote above I find very interesting. In EQEmu code at least channeling helps you successful cast through pushback. However, this quote says that channeling was only for getting hit and would not help you with distance moved from push. This may explain part of why things are so off on P99.

Did channeling in classic as a skill only help reduce interrupt chance from attacks but a separate non-skill based check was done for distance between start/end of cast? Also is this part of the "long standing issues" with channeling that caused them to set it to 100% probably because people got interrupted so much due to these additional checks that P99 does not have? EQEmu only has a skill based check plus "bonuses" from the spell, items, or AAs. There is no alternative chance to fail.

I have a hard time channeling through multiple greens for instance. Are you saying that I have a 100% chance to channel through the damage but the interrupts that i get are probably due to being pushed?

Correct, push is generally what is going to cause interrupts more than anything with stuns you don't shake off being a close second. At least at one time, push was calculated by comparing where you were when you started casting and where you are when you finished casting and the greater the difference the more likely an interrupt.

At least according to this EQ super nerd that seems to be the case. I wonder how they knew about this. Possibly you could reverse engineer it simply by offsetting your start/end distance when casting and comparing interrupt rates at 1 channeling skill to max skill. If the rate stays the same you could conclude that channeling skill has no impact on your chance to be interrupted from movement and is only to compensate for the attacks as they say.

Seems like the EQEmu code, if this is true, should use the existing check it has for channeling through a certain number of attacks but that percent chance should be decoupled from the X/Y check that should be a static value and a secondary check.

[Toad1]

EQ EMu = not real server, this is emulated

you stupid?

[GnomeCaptain]

Is this troll thread still rollin'?

LOL!

[Jibartik]

axten you do a great job of collecting data from p99 but you must check that against data you have collected from 1999

like you say 6/7 is not classic, but unless you prove to me what is classic I can't say it isnt!

[azeth]

Tried LGuk King three times yesterday. Crit resists all three times when trying to pacify the room (twice on a knight and once on a shaman). Died once, escaped through the portal twice.

EnChAnTeR BrOkEn

big woosh on missing the point that you even had a chance to lock down a hard classic camp by yourself.

unlucky on resists, bails, rants.

what other class even had a CHANCE to try that?

[azeth]

EQ EMu = not real server, this is emulated

you stupid?

Impressive join date. You legitimately don't understand the purpose of this server.

[azxten]

Here we go guys...

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343453

Funny post from cd288 in this thread.

Please please please implement this change staff. I really want to see the looks of horror on all the peoples' faces from the nerf Enchanters thread when they realize that their complaints caused people to realize that the biggest issue with why Charm killing is significantly easier on P99 was that channeling was broken and all their casters are now nerfed too.

So we're in agreement?

This bug thread seems to have fallen to the wayside but it reveals a few important things.

1. Channeling skill likely should not apply to push which is a separate roll.

One caveat to this...channeling doesn't apply to being bashed, stunned, or moving. Even with a high channeling skill, if you get bashed, stunned, or moved too far, you're going to lose your spell. That hasn't changed.

Rashere
Lead Designer
Posts: 1979
Registered: 05-04-2004

https://web.archive.org/web/20061207150714/http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=239994

2. Channeling is not a global roll for all attacks it's a per attack roll.

PC spell interrupt logic was rewritten to match a decompile taken from the client. That doesn't mean errors aren't possible, but it does mean that it's likely correct.

Keep in mind that it does these two things:

Every hit on you while casting a spell each has its own interrupt roll, so if you're casting a spell that's easy to interrupt, it's not likely to succeed if you're hit a lot.

Spells that are six or more levels under your current level get a significant channeling bonus. This bonus grows the older the spell is.

Torven
TAKP Staff client decompile data

https://www.takproject.net/forums/index.php?threads/channeling-focus-aa.12938/#post-80157

So EQ staff post in 2004 confirms channeling SKILL is not relevant to move interrupts. Is this how P99 works? Unknown but it's not how the EQEmu code works.

Decompile of client shows each hit gets an interrupt roll? Is this how P99 works? Unknown but it's not how the EQEmu code works.

Lower level spells should have a channeling bonus, also mentioned by Rashere. Is this how P99 works? Unknown but it doesn't seem to be how the EQEmu code works.

Bumped the old bug thread. Glad we could circle back on this and I find the post from cd288 in the bug thread hilarious.

[Sabin76]

Impressive join date. You legitimately don't understand the purpose of this server.

Lol, pay no mind... it's just the *checks world number* 5th iteration of Bigsham doing Bigshammy things.

[turbosilk]

Tried LGuk King three times yesterday. Crit resists all three times when trying to pacify the room (twice on a knight and once on a shaman). Died once, escaped through the portal twice.

EnChAnTeR BrOkEn

ur right. No ench have been solo farming efreeti, king etc in lguk, undertow/estrella, etc in KK for months and month. Not possible. Can't be done until 60 and even then you have to luck box it.

[Asteria]

Seems like channeling might be a little OP, definitely seems that way at lower levels compared to what I seem to remember on live during Kunark era and a bit beyond when I played.

[axisofebola]

ur right. No ench have been solo farming efreeti, king etc in lguk, undertow/estrella, etc in KK for months and month. Not possible. Can't be done until 60 and even then you have to luck box it.

But it's all down to RNG and most of the higher difficulty camps the RNG is going to take a dump on the enchanter the vast majority of the time.

You might as well say warriors could solo them too by simply dodging all the attack and resisting spells.

[larsbars]

I’m no pro at this but when it comes to exp grinding channeling almost never comes into play for me. If I’m not being an idiot I’ll at most have one mob on me when charm breaks and use stun before anything else. Why does everyone consider channeling important to enchanter solo?

[Zuranthium]

Tried LGuk King three times yesterday. Crit resists all three times when trying to pacify the room (twice on a knight and once on a shaman). Died once, escaped through the portal twice.

EnChAnTeR BrOkEn

No class should be able to solo the room that level. The fact that you possibly could and simply got unlucky indeed means something is imbalanced. It's especially easy to just bind at that exit for king in lguk; you zone out if there is an issue and then gate right back in and do the chain of pacifies til it sticks.

You don't need pacify either (assuming it's getting resisted more), you could open with root at max distance on a guard, run back and root another guard while sending charm pet in to take aggro on the rest, then root the other 2 guards, back pet off so only king is on it, then run back into another room where you have a fresh pet waiting to be charmed, then go reapply roots on the guards.

You might as well say warriors could solo them too by simply dodging all the attack and resisting spells.

What kind of fallacy lol. It's essentially impossible to dodge that much, the chance is 0.

[turbosilk]

I'm surprised at the number of people greater than zero that are surprised ench are easily soloing all named in lguk, solb and KK. What hole have you been hiding in for 10 years here?

And the best comeback is that a warrior has the same chance of soloing those camps/named. LOLOLOL. Please post your in game character names.

[Vivitron]

ur right. No ench have been solo farming efreeti, king etc in lguk, undertow/estrella, etc in KK for months and month. Not possible. Can't be done until 60 and even then you have to luck box it.

I know enchanters have soloed efreeti on green, but afaik it required "luck boxing" to the point that it wasn't a practical farm. Maybe there are enchanters that have found a way to solo farm it, but I've never seen one holding the camp.

That's in contrast to King -- if King is camped it is typically by a solo ench.

[Scalem]

Anyone saying enchanter isn’t the best class in the game is either an enchanter or just in denial.

[dwikt96]

I know enchanters have soloed efreeti on green, but afaik it required "luck boxing" to the point that it wasn't a practical farm. Maybe there are enchanters that have found a way to solo farm it, but I've never seen one holding the camp.

That's in contrast to King -- if King is camped it is typically by a solo ench.

Enchanters specifically can solo Efreeti for sure but it requires due diligence, tons of classes can duo it as well so I don't find it particularly overpowered that they could very high risk solo the camp.

On the other hand when I think about places like Sebilis and Howling stones i'm fairly sure enchanter is the only class (beside a few select camps necro's could do) that can effectively pacify there way from the entrance of the zone to a specific camp and then claim it solo.

Rogues/monks/necros maybe even clerics/bards/sk could all in theory pacify or FD and get to a camp, but they can't solo them.

The class has an incredibly amount of backloaded power, they need levels and gear and certain spells to peak, but when they do they are undoubtedly the best class around in solo or group - outshined only by epic + torpor + geared shamans on (certain) mobs.

[dwikt96]

Plus if you really want to talk about *issues* in classic or whatever I'd rather discuss the 60+ mages in raid zones waiting on mob spawns when you see 2-8 (maybe 10 at most being clerics) of other classes. Basically every mob is just pet zerged with zero chance of failure.

[charmcitysking]

You don't need pacify either (assuming it's getting resisted more), you could open with root at max distance on a guard, run back and root another guard while sending charm pet in to take aggro on the rest, then root the other 2 guards, back pet off so only king is on it, then run back into another room where you have a fresh pet waiting to be charmed, then go reapply roots on the guards.

Lol confirmed you've never been to this camp

[Zuranthium]

Lol confirmed you've never been to this camp

Ofc I have, and there is an even easier way to do it too. You simply charm a frog and throw it into the others, zone out after it dies, gate back in and repeat until the room is broken. You don't know how to play the class optimally or were just trolling.

[turbosilk]

Ofc I have, and there is an even easier way to do it too. You simply charm a frog and throw it into the others, zone out after it dies, gate back in and repeat until the room is broken. You don't know how to play the class optimally or were just trolling.

Then you'd know you pacify all but your pet and pull the king ph around the corner and you don't have to zone in and out a million times.

[ClephNote]

Why do people play this game to ruin it for everyone else? Why complain? Whether it's class balance or losing raids, some nerds seem to love getting stuff nerfed.

You want every class to be able to solo, be top raid DPS, have identical pets, CH, FD and snap agro? Seriously, what is your end game? Remove charm, or enchanter from game?

Cut off the tallest person's head, and you'll just have to cut off the second tallest person's head. Sorry you rolled Paladin.

[Sadre]

Well then. I have not checked into these parts in a while. I see most of the kinks in trying to gameplay 20 year old game mechanics on 21st century intraweb. Unless and until a semi-random LD, lag, and zone/server crash generator is implemented, this is it. It's populated by people who keep track of super metroid speedruns. (I hear the Chinese are finally getting their act together on this, btw. Good for them. I know their coach. They're hungry.)

But you know what? Name me anything in life that is perfect. I have been thinking about this -- a lot. It isn't the pandemic either. I've been just kind of preoccupied in general for a few years now. I don't know what it is.

And I likely never will.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

yeah, what he said.

[Darksinga]

To the OP, I just want to point out, referencing EQ Emulator source vs Project 1999 is a bad argument as they don't use the same code.

[Bardp1999]

The way it *SHOULD* be but that is not classic is very simple.

Wizards get clarity line
Enchanters can mez anything but only charm humanoids
Necros can charm only undead
Druids can charm only animals

[turbosilk]

Why do people play this game to ruin it for everyone else? Why complain? Whether it's class balance or losing raids, some nerds seem to love getting stuff nerfed.

You want every class to be able to solo, be top raid DPS, have identical pets, CH, FD and snap agro? Seriously, what is your end game? Remove charm, or enchanter from game?

Cut off the tallest person's head, and you'll just have to cut off the second tallest person's head. Sorry you rolled Paladin.

Sorry I'm not a paladin for you. What I want is the classic experience where people were forced to group and socialize because you couldn't solo all of the content. I'm confident that Nilbog will get this addressed to bring back the classic experience.

Sorry you want retail WoW.

[ClephNote]

Sorry, forgot what year it was. You’re right. You’re 100% right. Hopefully exactly what you want happens and is enforced on everyone else.

Cuz you’re right.

[turbosilk]

Sorry, forgot what year it was. You’re right. You’re 100% right. Hopefully exactly what you want happens and is enforced on everyone else.

Cuz you’re right.

Sorry if there is a tiny bit of possibility fixing ench to classic EQ that you can't ezmode WoW solo the whole game. It is a retail WoW experience but not classic EQ.

[azxten]

To the OP, I just want to point out, referencing EQ Emulator source vs Project 1999 is a bad argument as they don't use the same code.

They are mostly the same but you probably didn't read where I clarified that.

Many people have asked how they can contribute source development help to the project. We do run a modified source.. but the majority of it is publicly viewable eqemu code.

[TripSin]

Hopefully OP will continue to remake this puerile thread crying, in ignorance, about the same subject over and over.

At least enchanters have to be active and ready to react unlike other classes which let you just AFK most of the time in groups.

[cd288]

Sorry I'm not a paladin for you. What I want is the classic experience where people were forced to group and socialize because you couldn't solo all of the content. I'm confident that Nilbog will get this addressed to bring back the classic experience.

Sorry you want retail WoW.

Man did someone call the waaambulance yet for this guy or should I do it?

[EricaOgre]

I died in sky and popped at King in Guk. Soloed the Tactician naked and took his tiara and my Rez and left. Enchanters op. Could be the game is twenty years some old and we know so much more about the mechanics. I think that’s been said tho.

[enjchanter]

Sorry I'm not a paladin for you. What I want is the classic experience where people were forced to group and socialize because you couldn't solo all of the content. I'm confident that Nilbog will get this addressed to bring back the classic experience.

Sorry you want retail WoW.

Fair warning, I tried retail wow after p99 and now I can no longer have fun playing this game

[axisofebola]

I died in sky and popped at King in Guk. Soloed the Tactician naked and took his tiara and my Rez and left. Enchanters op. Could be the game is twenty years some old and we know so much more about the mechanics. I think that’s been said tho.

Next tell em how many times you died to the noble.

[turbosilk]

Fair warning, I tried retail wow after p99 and now I can no longer have fun playing this game

I don't have that problem but vanilla WoW is a legit great game.

[Nirgon]

Mobs were reliably charmed for killing AoW, that's right, for the whole fight. It isn't a short one.

Get over it.

[EricaOgre]

Next tell em how many times you died to the noble.

My current tally is 4.

[NPC]

Enchanter pets were paper bags on live, on P99 I see them tanking better than my mage pets? Enchanter pets could not EVER tank a F-ing spectre. Broken, the devs(server runners) pumping the classes they play again. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out, if any of these fools even played live. The more I play here the more I think not a damn one of you did, including the people running the server.

[larsbars]

I remember only seeing enchanters without clothes on live I’m pretty sure they didn’t have armor slots. Fix plz.

[Gwaihir]

I don't have that problem but vanilla WoW is a legit great game.

Thats because vanilla wow was designed by Aftermath and FOH guild's core serving as producers for its design.

After the initial success of the progressive raid scene in vanilla, where resist gear use (and collection) was essential to success for pioneering the content, they continuously nerfed the content until raid progression no longer necessitated farming of resist gear and consumables for success.

Shadow resist gear, for example, relied partly on armorsmiths for basic resist gear, and required a huge time commitments allying the argent dawn faction path for the advanced recipe unlocks and was pretty helpful in Naxx and on shadow dragons etc. Having a fair amount of resist gear enabled shadow dmg absorbing potions to last several aoes and brought their average duration in alignment with the global-potion-cooldown etc.

Fire resist materials required drops from trash mobs in MC, Ory and BWL, and its recipes were unlocked through factioning in the blackrock group dungeons.

Likewise the nightmare dragons utilized poison and there was a whole line of progress in gathering geoup drops as well as farming in AQ and faction earned in helping to open AQ for your server.

In TBC they made level 53 group gear obsolete raid gear from vanilla and did away with resist gear and consumable farming requirements for raid progression, altogether, and accelerated the progressive content nerf cycle for the sake of "accessibilty" forsaking the "hardcore" oversight/influence that made vanilla great.

[azxten]

Enchanter pets were paper bags on live, on P99 I see them tanking better than my mage pets? Enchanter pets could not EVER tank a F-ing spectre. Broken, the devs(server runners) pumping the classes they play again. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out, if any of these fools even played live. The more I play here the more I think not a damn one of you did, including the people running the server.

This is a core part of how Enchanter is overpowered. It lets the class easily level to 12 for charm which used to be a damn nightmare and almost impossible unless you grouped or took forever to solo.

Then it lets Enchanter farm easily once they level up or have a reliable pet in situations where charm isn't ideal. I even use the pet occasionally at the end of a charm fight when I'm almost out of mana and have my final pet low on health, the pet can just solo it meaning I don't have to gate out and leave exp.

Pet definitely needs a nerf but hard to prove it was always paper thin. I provided links to this but not sure it's enough evidence.

Bug reported here https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3190699#post3190699

I remember the pet being laughably weak. I never played Enc to high levels but at level 8 the pet would take like 3-5 rounds of combat from an even con and be dead, it wouldn't solo it while you AFK like it does here.

[larsbars]

Thats because vanilla wow was designed by Aftermath and FOH guild's core serving as producers for its design.

After the initial success of the progressive raid scene in vanilla, where resist gear use (and collection) was essential to success for pioneering the content, they continuously nerfed the content until raid progression no longer necessitated farming of resist gear and consumables for success.

Shadow resist gear, for example, relied partly on armorsmiths for basic resist gear, and required a huge time commitments allying the argent dawn faction path for the advanced recipe unlocks and was pretty helpful in Naxx and on shadow dragons etc. Having a fair amount of resist gear enabled shadow dmg absorbing potions to last several aoes and brought their average duration in alignment with the global-potion-cooldown etc.

Fire resist materials required drops from trash mobs in MC, Ory and BWL, and its recipes were unlocked through factioning in the blackrock group dungeons.

Likewise the nightmare dragons utilized poison and there was a whole line of progress in gathering geoup drops as well as farming in AQ and faction earned in helping to open AQ for your server.

In TBC they made level 53 group gear obsolete raid gear from vanilla and did away with resist gear and consumable farming requirements for raid progression, altogether, and accelerated the progressive content nerf cycle for the sake of "accessibilty" forsaking the "hardcore" oversight/influence that made vanilla great.

Not that it matters but I remember a few of the guys from Legacy of Steel were hired as well.

[Toad1]

This is a core part of how Enchanter is overpowered. It lets the class easily level to 12 for charm which used to be a damn nightmare and almost impossible unless you grouped or took forever to solo.

Then it lets Enchanter farm easily once they level up or have a reliable pet in situations where charm isn't ideal. I even use the pet occasionally at the end of a charm fight when I'm almost out of mana and have my final pet low on health, the pet can just solo it meaning I don't have to gate out and leave exp.

Pet definitely needs a nerf but hard to prove it was always paper thin. I provided links to this but not sure it's enough evidence.

Bug reported here https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3190699#post3190699

I remember the pet being laughably weak. I never played Enc to high levels but at level 8 the pet would take like 3-5 rounds of combat from an even con and be dead, it wouldn't solo it while you AFK like it does here.

Nothing is going to happen and no one cares

[sajbert]

Completely off-topic but
Shadow resist gear, for example, relied partly on armorsmiths for basic resist gear, and required a huge time commitments allying the argent dawn faction path for the advanced recipe unlocks and was pretty helpful in Naxx and on shadow dragons etc. Having a fair amount of resist gear enabled shadow dmg absorbing potions to last several aoes and brought their average duration in alignment with the global-potion-cooldown etc.

Shadow resistance gear was basically never used or needed in WoW Classic raiding. Only for Twin Emperors in AQ40 it had a legitimate use.

Resist gear was intended to be a requirement for several fights but as players got better entirely bypassed. Ragnaros being the prime example of a fire resistance raid encounter and also one where you do not need fire resistance but rather can just double down on consumables (fire protection potions) and focus on pure damage gear. In the end it's only really 2-3 bosses in the game that require resistance gear.

The consumable farm is largely why I quit raiding (and WoW Classic) because at the end of the day it's not worth spending X hours to farm consumables to spend 1-2 hours per raid instance at scheduled times each week. It's guaranteed pixels without any real excitement to it.

[DoodyLich666]

That is where pvp servers made the end game more fun. I remember many epic battles over black lotus nodes in the plague lands.

[sajbert]

That is where pvp servers made the end game more fun. I remember many epic battles over black lotus nodes in the plague lands.

I didn't enjoy PvP in Classic, but maybe because I foolishly played on ultracompetitive servers. When you take everything to its peak and competition follows it just ends up with almost everyone having a miserable time.

Maxed out tradeskills (engineering), maxed out gear (raiding) and max use of long cooldown items and consumables + an army of trained monkeys to support you. Then you go to farm dungeons undisturbed for hours to recoup your gold losses on consumables.

In a way it is a game design problem and EQ suffers from it too in a sense. In order to get the best items the bar has been set higher than it needs to be at. That said, P99 raiding is far more casual than hardcore WoW Classic raiding.

Wait, weren't we talking about enchanter being OP or not?

[turbosilk]

Completely off-topic but


Shadow resistance gear was basically never used or needed in WoW Classic raiding. Only for Twin Emperors in AQ40 it had a legitimate use.



It was certainly needed for a boss in Black Temple but that wasn't in vanilla.

[turbosilk]

Wait, weren't we talking about enchanter being OP or not?

About ench being unclassic.

[Tunabros]

Enchanters are only as good as the player
Don't hate game Hate the players =)

[azxten]

Nothing is going to happen and no one cares

Mad, bad, sad Enchanter.

Bug thread already has data showing Enc pet here has about 2x the HP it should. Nerf incoming.

[larsbars]

Mad, bad, sad Enchanter.

Bug thread already has data showing Enc pet here has about 2x the HP it should. Nerf incoming.

Do any enchanters seriously use the pet past 20?

[EricaOgre]

Do any enchanters seriously use the pet past 20?

I do if I’m feeling super lazy. It can be viable if max level against a slowed frenzy.

[Swish]

Mad, bad, sad Enchanter.

Bug thread already has data showing Enc pet here has about 2x the HP it should. Nerf incoming.

You and Daldean must get along.

[Frug]

Do any enchanters seriously use the pet past 20?

I saw one soloing the Ogre guards with one inside Ogguk. Not sure what level, but pas 20 for sure.

[axisofebola]

Assuming you are fighting weak enough mobs relative to the pet, the total HP is pretty much irrelevant. The combination of slow to reduce damage rate with the pets own faster HP regen is what makes them viable 35+.

[kjs86z]

Mad, bad, sad Enchanter.

Bug thread already has data showing Enc pet here has about 2x the HP it should. Nerf incoming.

newsflash: no one cares about enchanter summoned pets because no one uses them

[matticas]

Just move the clarity spell line from enchanter to wizard. Things will work themselves out.

this

[Seymoore]

So I did some testing of my main hypothesis, that Enchanter is OP because channeling isn't working right.

On a level 1 Druid with 0 channeling skill I was interrupted every cast. No chance to channel. I then went and put 1 point into channeling.

Out of 30 channeling skill checks, 9 were interrupts, and 21 were successful.

Just some starting data and final channeling skill was 9. Level 1 channeling is ~70% successful? Seems a bit off, I'll do more testing.



No skill ups from 1 to 2 after 30 channeling checks? I think I solved the problem. Your dice are broken.

[RoguePhantom]

All the crying in this thread makes me want to roll an Enchanter. Thanks Azxten.

[larsbars]

I won’t be able to bind at firepots cause I rely on frequently gating out to dungeon entrances while soloing group content. Lame.

[azxten]

All the crying in this thread makes me want to roll an Enchanter. Thanks Azxten.

You're welcome. That is what I did. It's pretty OP and hilarious.

I love taking large camps away from groups and especially if you leap frog them to do it.

[Seducio]

Late adopters are an interesting part of any tech curve. Some folks are slow to change.

[azxten]

Late adopters are an interesting part of any tech curve. Some folks are slow to change.

If people knew how broken Enchanter was then everyone would be playing Enchanter. There really is no need for any other classes.

[Seducio]

If people knew how broken Enchanter was then everyone would be playing Enchanter. There really is no need for any other classes.

You can find similar threads since the beginning of p99. Def one of those if can't beat 'em join 'em things.

Enchanters were OP in EQ (classic) and are gods on p99.

There is a reason this type of power wasn't recreated in other MMOs.

[Danth]

If people knew how broken Enchanter was then everyone would be playing Enchanter. There really is no need for any other classes.

Not necessarily. I know what the class can do but I don't care for actually playing them. It's strong, yes, but not my idea of fun.

Enchanters on P1999 are silly, of course, but (if you can believe it) they're not nearly as absurd as they were when P1999 first opened. I well remember Enchanters solo'ing gukbottom because charm lasted full duration every time--you could set a clock for it--and readily landed on red-/cons. Oh and whirl-till-you-hurl also lasted full duration every time meaning they could effortlessly stunlock anything.

...Sure enough, even at its worst you had plenty of Enchanter players sitting around claiming, "Oh yeah this is totally classic and on the level!" People are consistent, anyway.

Danth