The Power of Bone Knights!! (With Data!!)

[Ivory]

Haillos fine fellows, I ams Palabin the Bone Knight of Ak'anon, saviour of undeath ands champion of battle.

Recently I gots myself some fine bone science tools, allowins me to dives more into the power of bone knights! For, ups till now, I knew I hads pretty good magics... but my sciences is revealin is even greater than I thoughts!!

"Whats is a bone knight?!" you may be askins. Is question I gets a lot, so to starts I tell you abouts this mysterious ands amazin new class!

Well, bone knights is lot like shadow knights, only strongers in bone magic (some peoples say we is necromancers, them peoples is bananas!)

But, like them shadow knights...we prefers to fight in melees for a lot of things, and works to get top notch armors allowins us to tanks pretty ok (I gots about 650 AC when I buff up). Using vampiric embrace (does 62 lifetap proc at 50!) and banshee aura and other melee sort of magics.

ANYHOW! That's what I ams, so let's gets to the data of the TRUE POWER OF BONE KNIGHTS!!

I were raidins in the plane o hate today... savins mine fine fellows, and did some tests.

All of these tests was dones with melee only (alongside my trusties mr bones). When I fights fully, usually I gots a dot that does 80 damage a ticks goin constantly to keeps me healthy (usually when I'm alones).

Also, my mr bones was the weakest of all the bones I can summons!! So... long story short... bone knights upper power is even higher than this... as sustained melee DPS! Is against undead mostly (which is why a bit higher thans normal), but a couple of thems was against a non-undead (and still hits over 60DPS).

For some reference, Snagasson is a rogue!! With some fine weapons!

((Also if you is wonderins, there were 2 charmed abhorrents...so it combines their damage into one))

https://imgur.com/b3tg4DP.jpg

https://imgur.com/VzlQbFj.jpg

https://imgur.com/sxAtZnb.jpg

https://imgur.com/KztLvMr.jpg

https://imgur.com/1NEY68f.jpg

https://imgur.com/wD2kDxH.jpg

https://imgur.com/Y7pUSF5.jpg

Now everyone knows the powers of bone knights!! You can'ts argue with all them science!!

[tsuchang]

Weell nou, I aint no science denyer, but thems a lot of numerologicaly calculated numbers there and I aint sayen you conjered no falsificating unfactoids either, but, huh?

[Castle2.0]

Me attempt to read parsing thread in a JarJar Binks voice.

Me hard pass.

<3 parsing, </3 JarJar.

[Sabin76]

Interesting. 2 questions:

1. Why is "pets" plural? Did they associate more than one pet with you?
2. The pet names I see on the list... were those Mage pets? Which one was yours?










3. Lynuga remembers...

[Ivory]

Interesting. 2 questions:

1. Why is "pets" plural? Did they associate more than one pet with you?
2. The pet names I see on the list... were those Mage pets? Which one was yours?


It just does them plural. It's just one pet they combinins with me (you set it to link to you, so its dps vanishes from the list to combine)

3. Lynuga remembers...

It never happends!!! I beins framed!!



</3 JarJar.

JarJar does "mesa"! Gnomes never says such things!

[Ivory]

Here is more evidence of bone knight power! This was a battle againsts a fine fire giant. So no undead staff bein used. Just gnome and bone power.

https://imgur.com/EqvGtAu.jpg

https://imgur.com/zBDJY6t.jpg

[DoodyLich666]

Very interesting.

[DoodyLich666]

Are you trying to stack ac and dex? Is it feasible to level this way, or does it require some endgame items to follow the path of the bone knight?

[Tethler]

What melee weapon were you using?

[Ivory]

Are you trying to stack ac and dex? Is it feasible to level this way, or does it require some endgame items to follow the path of the bone knight?

Yup, dex and AC... and it's more than feasible to level (it's very very strong when under 40, I would level up duoing most of the time ....and my favorite to duo with were just added DPS like a monk, since I could heal myself and tank and heal the monk if they got hurt too. Or another necromancer for shadow pacting each other).

I've always been more survivable than my pet. And I never had much to twink myself with (Pockete was my only other character, so twinked me with what she could get at level 18).

AC is super important though. One of the first parses I did was testing the difference between 530 AC and 650 AC.... against just a green guard in front of the freeport bank.

It took the average damage per hit from 50 (with 530 ac) to just 26 (with 650 AC). That's a hugeeee difference, and why casters normally get destroyed by anything in melee, even greens. But if they push their AC up with some focus on armor, they can actually become a LOT more survivable.

In general though, after 40 things start to hurt a bit more.... and good armor becomes way more critical. Since the threshold for not taking full damage each hit rises higher as the mobs get higher.

It works in classic, and when kunark comes there are a host of items that can keep pushing up the AC for damage mitigation (like a mask that has 12 AC on it).

I still don't know how it works after 50 (never tried it, it's just theory from then on).
I thinkkkk it should be powerful.... since I can already go toe to toe with planar monsters pretty ok (not enough to fully tank them for too long).

But when I get more lifetap dots and better mitigation, I think I'll be able to, especially if I throw in the fast casting lifetap.

Today my AC was hitting 690 with buffs, which is pretty good for a caster!

What melee weapon were you using?

For hate, I was using the Staff of Undead Legions most the time (a couple of the fights have it against a living cleric, and still had good DPS).

But the 2nd set I linked I was using a staff of writhing (for the extra proc). I also have that dagger that procs the summoned DD if I fight summoned things (for the hole probably), but not shown here.

To give you an idea of the power of procs (combined with vampiric embrace proc) , I fought a hill giant without my pet.... just lifetap dots and my melee.... and by the end I had done 850 damage in procs alone. It's really pretty frequent with about 190 dex.

BUT in Kunark things change even more, with some reallyyy nice caster weapons (making it worth it to try and get some strength and haste items). Like I can't wait to see what the parse is with a rod of annihilation ( https://wiki.project1999.com/Rod_of_Annihilation )

I expect to be hitting for 40-80 per hit with it, which should up my DPS pretty well. If I can hit 1/3rd DPS of my pet at later levels, it will be a lot.

The level 60 necromancer pet hits for 62 max (so chance of a quad, but probably more on average 2 or so hits?).... with a 48 damage lifetap.

By comparison, at level 60, vampiric embrace should be proccing for 72 damage, and then hitting for 40-80 per hit myself in melee (and that's before using any magic on top, like putting on a 100 damage a tick lifetap dot).

[DoodyLich666]

I might need to take a stroll down this path of the bone knight. I love my sk, but the exp penalty does not pair well with my pretty limited play time.

[Ivory]

I might need to take a stroll down this path of the bone knight. I love my sk, but the exp penalty does not pair well with my pretty limited play time.

You would feel most mighty with bone knight.

My weapon progression was

https://wiki.project1999.com/Crookstinger

then at 16

https://wiki.project1999.com/Obsidian_Shard

then at 18

https://wiki.project1999.com/Stiletto_of_the_Bloodclaw

then at 28 (will be good to use till 50 even)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Staff_of_writhing

then the great bone staff at 46

https://wiki.project1999.com/Staff_of_undead_legions

[Sabin76]

Yup, dex and AC... and it's more than feasible to level (it's very very strong when under 40, I would level up duoing most of the time ....and my favorite to duo with were just added DPS like a monk, since I could heal myself and tank and heal the monk if they got hurt too. Or another necromancer for shadow pacting each other).

I've always been more survivable than my pet. And I never had much to twink myself with (Pockete was my only other character, so twinked me with what she could get at level 18).

AC is super important though. One of the first parses I did was testing the difference between 530 AC and 650 AC.... against just a green guard in front of the freeport bank.

It took the average damage per hit from 50 (with 530 ac) to just 26 (with 650 AC). That's a hugeeee difference, and why casters normally get destroyed by anything in melee, even greens. But if they push their AC up with some focus on armor, they can actually become a LOT more survivable.

In general though, after 40 things start to hurt a bit more.... and good armor becomes way more critical. Since the threshold for not taking full damage each hit rises higher as the mobs get higher.

It works in classic, and when kunark comes there are a host of items that can keep pushing up the AC for damage mitigation (like a mask that has 12 AC on it).

I still don't know how it works after 50 (never tried it, it's just theory from then on).
I thinkkkk it should be powerful.... since I can already go toe to toe with planar monsters pretty ok (not enough to fully tank them for too long).

But when I get more lifetap dots and better mitigation, I think I'll be able to, especially if I throw in the fast casting lifetap.

Today my AC was hitting 690 with buffs, which is pretty good for a caster!



For hate, I was using the Staff of Undead Legions most the time (a couple of the fights have it against a living cleric, and still had good DPS).

But the 2nd set I linked I was using a staff of writhing (for the extra proc). I also have that dagger that procs the summoned DD if I fight summoned things (for the hole probably), but not shown here.

To give you an idea of the power of procs (combined with vampiric embrace proc) , I fought a hill giant without my pet.... just lifetap dots and my melee.... and by the end I had done 850 damage in procs alone. It's really pretty frequent with about 190 dex.

BUT in Kunark things change even more, with some reallyyy nice caster weapons (making it worth it to try and get some strength and haste items). Like I can't wait to see what the parse is with a rod of annihilation ( https://wiki.project1999.com/Rod_of_Annihilation )

I expect to be hitting for 40-80 per hit with it, which should up my DPS pretty well. If I can hit 1/3rd DPS of my pet at later levels, it will be a lot.

The level 60 necromancer pet hits for 62 max (so chance of a quad, but probably more on average 2 or so hits?).... with a 48 damage lifetap.

By comparison, at level 60, vampiric embrace should be proccing for 72 damage, and then hitting for 40-80 per hit myself in melee (and that's before using any magic on top, like putting on a 100 damage a tick lifetap dot).

Who is this person typing, and what have you done with Palabin...?

[Jibartik]

You would feel most mighty with bone knight.

My weapon progression was

https://wiki.project1999.com/Crookstinger

then at 16

https://wiki.project1999.com/Obsidian_Shard

then at 18

https://wiki.project1999.com/Stiletto_of_the_Bloodclaw

then at 28 (will be good to use till 50 even)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Staff_of_writhing

then the great bone staff at 46

https://wiki.project1999.com/Staff_of_undead_legions

Are you thinking rod of anihiliation will put you into some kind of awesome new meta? I'm curious!

[Ivory]

Are you thinking rod of anihiliation will put you into some kind of awesome new meta? I'm curious!

Against undead them staff of legions can't be beat (proccin for 585 is bananas!)

But if I get a 40% haste item, and the rod... I hope I can stay competitive with level 60 rogues DPS in kunark. Especially with my own bone powers summonin a bone rogue at level 53 maybe? I wonder if is better than the spectre for DPS at 60? Seems like it would be?

My ultimate melee DPS weapon is this in velious though... https://wiki.project1999.com/Staff_of_the_Silent_Star

A 400 damage -300 fire resist proc!!! Now THAT'S some pancakes right there.

And one of these https://wiki.project1999.com/Willsapper

Proccin a 30 percent slow! I wonder if I'd be able to tank / solo dragons like shamans can with it.

......

My goal is to redefine the true top tier of sustained DPS in raidin world.... if not the very top, at least up there with them monks and rogues!

My data is showing I already am pretty competitive at the top in classic raiding.... the big question is just what happens at kunark and beyond.

[Nirgon]

Drugs + Unemployment = boneknight !

1 jelly bean counted

[Vivitron]

And one of these https://wiki.project1999.com/Willsapper

Proccin a 30 percent slow! I wonder if I'd be able to tank / solo dragons like shamans can with it.

I haven't played either class to dragon soloing level but some quick math:

A 75% Turgur's slow effectively multiplies your hit points (and heals) by 4, turning a 300 hp Torpor tick into the equivalent of 1200 hp of healing against an unslowed mob.

A 35% Willsapper slow effectively multiplies your hit points (and heals) by 1.54, turning a 122 hp Vexing Mordinia tick into the equivalent of 188 hp of healing against an unslowed mob. For Touch of Night, 720 -> 1108; almost up to the level of a single tick of Torpor against a shaman slowed mob.

[Ivory]

A 35% Willsapper slow effectively multiplies your hit points (and heals) by 1.54, turning a 122 hp Vexing Mordinia tick into the equivalent of 188 hp of healing against an unslowed mob. For Touch of Night, 720 -> 1108; almost up to the level of a single tick of Torpor against a shaman slowed mob.

But all of the necromancer lifetap dots stack.... so you can do

Vexing = 121
Vampiric curse = 21
Bond of Death = 80
Soul Well = 70ish

Then fungi staff for another 15 a tick...

For a total of 306 a tick, right at a torpor shaman healing themselves (only unlike their heal, yours is also adding DPS to the enemy....AND the lifetap dots last for a minute, not just 4 ticks like torpor).

And then melees will be proccing an extra 72 heal now and then during the battle.

It isn't as strong as a torpor shaman... but it's still pretty dang strong (along with having greater DPS, so target will die faster)

Dunno if it would work in the end... but maybe with the right build and enough fine items... a bone knight could achieve the very heights of power!!

....



Yeldema (one of the easier dragons) hits for 76-206... that's really not thaaat much. And a necromancer who is meleeing can always back up and let pet take a couple hits before jumping back in (using the pet to buffer off some damage).

I think it's doable! The lower end dragons only have 4 times the HPs of an ice giant outside of everfrost... that isn't so bad.

[Mario 7]

Against undead them staff of legions can't be beat (proccin for 585 is bananas!)

But if I get a 40% haste item, and the rod... I hope I can stay competitive with level 60 rogues DPS in kunark. Especially with my own bone powers summonin a bone rogue at level 53 maybe? I wonder if is better than the spectre for DPS at 60? Seems like it would be?

My ultimate melee DPS weapon is this in velious though... https://wiki.project1999.com/Staff_of_the_Silent_Star

A 400 damage -300 fire resist proc!!! Now THAT'S some pancakes right there.

And one of these https://wiki.project1999.com/Willsapper

Proccin a 30 percent slow! I wonder if I'd be able to tank / solo dragons like shamans can with it.

......

My goal is to redefine the true top tier of sustained DPS in raidin world.... if not the very top, at least up there with them monks and rogues!

My data is showing I already am pretty competitive at the top in classic raiding.... the big question is just what happens at kunark and beyond.

Necro pets are HEAVILY nerfed on eq emulator, Minion of shadows is heavily nerfed on p99

Casters dont do any melee dmg also drugs and hormone pills

[Raev]

I didn't know all of the recourses stacked! That's a neat trick. On my Necro I always wanted to try stacking Shadowbond and Pact of Shadow x2 on multiple melee. You should be able to heal for 125 + 80 + 80 = 285 per tick (=1 torpor, without slow) while only taking 125/tick in damage. It doesn't really make sense until Velious, though. Also I hope you are remembering to get Shaman Strength for your pet. Pets have no strength cap! So it will hit for max most of the time.

Green will also be interesting because Ragebringer won't make an appearance until near the end of Kunark. I guess that a Bone Knight stacks up decently when compared to a Rogue with a SCD (perhaps there are better options?) and 26% haste, at least in a group.

I always thought that the Immunities patch went in before the end of Velious which should have removed most of the MR immune bosses, but it doesn't seem to have happened here.

[Jibartik]

That is an awesome quest ivory!! You are the only one here playing a new class on green good job! :)

[Vivitron]

But all of the necromancer lifetap dots stack.... so you can do

Vexing = 121
Vampiric curse = 21
Bond of Death = 80
Soul Well = 70ish

Then fungi staff for another 15 a tick...

For a total of 306 a tick, right at a torpor shaman healing themselves (only unlike their heal, yours is also adding DPS to the enemy....AND the lifetap dots last for a minute, not just 4 ticks like torpor).

And then melees will be proccing an extra 72 heal now and then during the battle.

It isn't as strong as a torpor shaman... but it's still pretty dang strong (along with having greater DPS, so target will die faster)

Dunno if it would work in the end... but maybe with the right build and enough fine items... a bone knight could achieve the very heights of power!!

....



Yeldema (one of the easier dragons) hits for 76-206... that's really not thaaat much. And a necromancer who is meleeing can always back up and let pet take a couple hits before jumping back in (using the pet to buffer off some damage).

I think it's doable! The lower end dragons only have 4 times the HPs of an ice giant outside of everfrost... that isn't so bad.
I think it could be, and I'd like to see it! 306/tick brings the healing against a 35% slowed mob to the equivalent of 471 a tick against an unslowed mob. Still well short of Torpor against a Turgured mob, but the shaman videos I've watched suggest that their healing can be significantly in excess of what they would need excepting canni damage.

Edit: I enjoy your melee idea and parses. Fun stuff.

[turbosilk]

More proof that melee dps is awful in classic. Nice write up.

[Robersonroger38]

What armor are you wearing atm? Can you pst your character

[Ivory]

What armor are you wearing atm? Can you pst your character

This is current Palabin http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Green:Palabin

BUT!! Behold future Palabin!! http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Green:Palabin_the_Bone_Knight

[port9001]

This is an inspiring experiment. So inspiring I've decided to try the bone knight!

Still working through low levels which have always been easy on any pet class. Looking for any easy to acquire gear must-haves you might know about Ivory!

[Castle2.0]

Don't let em hate on you bro. Can't stand the jar jar binks talk on page 1 so I haven't read it - but following rest of thread. Very cool. Love the concept, looking forward to messing around with it a bit myself.

We need more of this on P99.

[Ivory]

This is an inspiring experiment. So inspiring I've decided to try the bone knight!

Still working through low levels which have always been easy on any pet class. Looking for any easy to acquire gear must-haves you might know about Ivory!

All together the items for a pretty good set o armor really isn't that expensive. Later you can focus on boosting up items (like getting cloak of shadows), but these things I was using for most my time.

Get 2 hp rings
https://wiki.project1999.com/Azure_Sleeves
https://wiki.project1999.com/Green_Silken_Drape
2 https://wiki.project1999.com/Symbol_of_Loyalty_to_Vox
https://wiki.project1999.com/Kobold-Hide_Boots (or bear hide boots are ok too)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Gorilla_Hide_Leggings or https://wiki.project1999.com/Drake-hide_Leggings

https://wiki.project1999.com/Fine_Silk_Turban or https://wiki.project1999.com/Crown_of_the_Froglok_Kings

https://wiki.project1999.com/Lizardscale_Cloak (or cloak of shadows, but lizardscale is great and cheap)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Pegasus_Feather_Cloak (it's really not hard to camp, i camped it with my untwinked level 12 cleric even... just gotta show up and look for a few other people looking for it and sit on a spawn spot)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Drakescale_Belt

https://wiki.project1999.com/Glowing_Bone_Collar (or get a dex jewelry for neck... or the cheap AC of https://wiki.project1999.com/Labyrinth_Talisman )

2 https://wiki.project1999.com/Obsidian_Bead_Hoop (unless you can afford the better earrings, like https://wiki.project1999.com/Diamondine_Earring is pretty easy to camp, but expensive if you buyin)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Gem_Inlaid_Gauntlets (you can pick up the scrolls for free if you hang around karana enough)

[Balimon]

Thanks so much for this Ivory! I immediately retooled my 20 necromancer ( my gear choices were pretty close to what you posted, thanks for that :) ) and it has been awesome.

[Ivory]

Thanks so much for this Ivory! I immediately retooled my 20 necromancer ( my gear choices were pretty close to what you posted, thanks for that :) ) and it has been awesome.

Anytime!! Post your findings after being a bone knight some! Vampiric embrace + banshee aura (though the short duration on banshee aura i didn't use so much till later) is the key to much power (and now that necros got their early lifetap dot, is even better since they stack with the others for healing)

[M.J.]

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/la-noire-doubt-press-x-to-doubt

[Evia]

This is refreshing to read about. After 20+ years of elf simulation apparently there is still new ground to break.

I wonder if there are any other classes that could be utilized differently than we've been using them.

[Donkey Hotay]

What does your downtime look like?

[Castle2.0]

This is refreshing to read about. After 20+ years of elf simulation apparently there is still new ground to break. For sure ("https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359987')

[Balimon]

Some initial observations:

Downtime is about the same as before just fear kiting the same mobs. I can kill 2-3 dark blues per buff cycle before they ( V.E., Vortex, and Banshee aura) wear off. Keeping all the buffs up is a bit frenetic, and I'm not sure I'm out dpsing the pet every fight. Sometimes I throw a dot out.

Went from 20.2 to 21.2 in a short amount of time, roughly 3.5 hours. Solid, faster than the fear kiting was going, also made plenty of mistakes finding out the best way to play this way. It's also way more fun and engaging!

[Jibartik]

Some initial observations:

Downtime is about the same as before just fear kiting the same mobs. I can kill 2-3 dark blues per buff cycle before they ( V.E., Vortex, and Banshee aura) wear off. Keeping all the buffs up is a bit frenetic, and I'm not sure I'm out dpsing the pet every fight. Sometimes I throw a dot out.

Went from 20.2 to 21.2 in a short amount of time, roughly 3.5 hours. Solid, faster than the fear kiting was going, also made plenty of mistakes finding out the best way to play this way. It's also way more fun and engaging!

Dude, that is so cool!!!!!!

Like its cool ivory figured this out, but its even cooler that its like, actually a legit way to play?? :eek:

Question: do yo notice a significant increase in your tankyness with stacking AC on the caster?

[Balimon]

Dude, that is so cool!!!!!!

Like its cool ivory figured this out, but its even cooler that its like, actually a legit way to play?? :eek:

Question: do yo notice a significant increase in your tankyness with stacking AC on the caster?

Definitely, I went from super squish to tank...life taps really help this work though. The AC and the proccing are the grease that keeps the gears turning I think. 402 AC self buffed at 21 atm.

[Baler]

SK is one of the most underrated pullers in Velious. They get good tagging spells, FD, taps, a pet. When utilized properly I'd say they can out perform a velious monk on pulls.

[Ivory]

Definitely, I went from super squish to tank...life taps really help this work though. The AC and the proccing are the grease that keeps the gears turning I think. 402 AC self buffed at 21 atm.

Are you using leach too? The lifetap dots are the most mana efficient heals (And then at 29 when you get vampiric curse, you will see a big jump in passive tanking too)

I'd save all the mana for just lifetaps. And the great thing is since you aren't over-agroing, you can back up at any time and the pet will take it off you for breathing room or to CC or things.

Banshee aura is great damage for the mana, just the short buff time (especially earlier levels) meant I skipped it most the time. ((the time scaling is really harsh, 4.2 minutes at level 16.... but 9 minutes at level 40....though it's 60 mana and really good damage per mana in a fight, I wasn't too worried about DPS boost and instead was more focused on making downtime as low as possible to just keep killing things))

Spirit armor earlier on might be a bit iffy, later on the mana isn't a big deal... but the extra 13 AC is pretty nice for 36 minutes (just, again, I was more focused on minimizing downtime)

Also you will be more tanky with https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Shimmering_Orb if you don't already got (shield AC is worth 3 or 4 times what normal AC is worth, so using this can really make a difference over any other offhand item). And kerran toy for 3 more AC isn't bad either.

But since you aren't going to be outdamaging the pet usually, you should think about duoing when you can too. I leveled with duos a lot to really make leveling efficient (and would get the same exp per kill as if I was alone). Taunting off a monk or rogue is easy with disease cloud or vortex.

[Jibartik]

I wana stack AC on my enchanter and see what happens.

[Donkey Hotay]

. . . shield AC is worth 3 or 4 times what normal AC is worth . . .This leprechaun is dropping mad knowledge like lucky charms.
How have I never seen this.

[Donkey Hotay]

Okay, I took a quick stroll around Fora Past and found some references for this Shield AC concept.

2017: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283237
2014: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1424908&postcount=13

So in 2014 as Kunark is moving into Velious on Blue, Haynar makes a post stating the AC system uses a softcap and that adding a shield bumps your softcap to soft_cap+Shield_AC.

In the 2017 thread,

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2597867&postcount=10

someone has linked to a Live dev talking about the lvl100-era and outlining how the calculations work server-side. He describes Shield AC: the raw value is added to the gear calculations toward softcap and then added back again to boost softcap.

So, if I'm reading this right, unless you are already softcapped, you will only receive the raw value of your shield's AC. If you are softcapped, the full value of the shield is used to boost the softcap higher. This is apparently where the 3-4X conception comes into play: using the referenced Live system, a caster receives 1/4 of each AC he can scrounge up after he's softcapped. If he throws on the shield, he gets 4/4 of that AC instead so hurray! 4X as much.

My body-temp IQ summary:
My 22 Necromancer would be softcapped at 157 AC. If he then tosses on the Shimmering Orb, he'd have 172 AC. If he had 142 AC and then equipped the Orb, he'd have 157 AC but now his softcap is 172 so yay! where's the Azure Sleeves.
Did I get this right?

PS: Haynar also mentions that the 2014 system had {(L*6)+25} as a softcap for "low level". He additionally mentions that warriors had a .45X multiplier for AC beyond softcap which is higher than the .35X reference for Live. Both he and Rogean describe the P99 system as differing from Live in implementation.

PPS: Thread detailing Enchanter AC parsing for Jibartik (I haven't read it yet--came up in search).
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320936

[Ivory]

My body-temp IQ summary:
My 22 Necromancer would be softcapped at 157 AC. If he then tosses on the Shimmering Orb, he'd have 172 AC. If he had 142 AC and then equipped the Orb, he'd have 157 AC but now his softcap is 172 so yay! where's the Azure Sleeves.
Did I get this right?

All the information on softcaps is REALLYYY fuzzy (since it's mixed with information from live and Eqemu ...which handle things differently often).

Also doesn't help that a year or two ago there was a big AC overhaul on the servers by the devs. So they messed with something "to make AC matter more"... but no one really knows what ended up happening.

I remember reading somewhere that casters actually had a higher softcap or something like that compared to melees? It was a while ago, but I remember thinking that maybe that meant casters could be great tanks if they focused enough (but that was just about AC, it wasn't counting what huge mitigation dodge and things are for tanks).

Anyhow, I just build as much AC as I can, since I don't have the exact math things are based on. All I know from parsing is that AC helps a lottt with mitigation.... and for a class that can heal itself so well... that just means way better ability to sustain damage and lower their downtime and improve performance by out-tanking the pet.

Compared to a necromancer with some armor.... the necromancer pet is actually pretty weak in terms of how much damage it can tank (at least till you get closer to 50, then the pet can hold its own pretty well... though I'm still no pushover either! The other day I ran into the widow mistress without my pet in najena... and was able to melee it down)

[Donkey Hotay]

Anyhow, I just build as much AC as I can, since I don't have the exact math things are based on. All I know from parsing is that AC helps a lottt with mitigation.

Yeah, I'm with you there, I was just curious about the shield specifics.
I checked my Necromancer (he's actually 21) and his AC self-buffed is 325ish, so he's already way over his softcap.
In the linked Enchanter thread, he goes from 628 to 1330 AC and reduces damage by roughly 37% (2019 on Blue). Softcap be damned, apparently.

[port9001]

Are softcap values known?

[Zipity]

On those parses are you counting just melee damage or spells too? I’d be interested to see JUST your melee damage.

[Sabin76]

On those parses are you counting just melee damage or spells too? I’d be interested to see JUST your melee damage.

"All of these tests was dones with melee only (alongside my trusties mr bones)"

[Ivory]

On those parses are you counting just melee damage or spells too? I’d be interested to see JUST your melee damage.

Was just my melee (including procs of weapons + vampiric embrace...since that's a big part o things)

[Sarkhan]

Iksar necros will reign supreme!
Sorry little gnome, you tried your best.

[Castle2.0]

Iksar necros will reign supreme!
Sorry little gnome, you tried your best.

Fact Check: True

Except for being able to wear Efreeti plate armor from PoSky which will be outclassed later, Iksars Necros reign supreme.

[Balimon]

Fact Check: True

Except for being able to wear Efreeti plate armor from PoSky which will be outclassed later, Iksars Necros reign supreme.

This is statistically true for tanking bone knights, but what I think Ivory is most excited about is the melee dps she can put out. Gnomes just as good as anyone there!

Also update on necromancer: She is now 23, last two levels I did in about three hours each. Proc/tap tanking is efficient and fun for this level range! Looking forward to playing more.

[Ivory]

Iksar necros will reign supreme!
Sorry little gnome, you tried your best.

In theory!! But will there ever be an iksar who rises up beyond the greatness of gnome bone knights?! I don't thinks so, would take much dedication and accolades (like being the champion of battle!)

But, even by the numbers, things aren't that good for Iksars. Sure they have a decent AC boost and regen bonus....BUT

gnomes start with 108 int
Iksar start with 85 int

And both start with same dex.

So as far as a bone knight goes, gnomes can boost their DEX up by 25 to start, giving them an edge in the ways of bone knight fighting. Iksars would need to dump that into INT just to MATCH a gnomes massive gnome brains.

Essentially iksar bone knights get an AC boost and regen boost, and gnome bone knights get a +25 dex boost or +25 int boost to start.

BUT! Gnomes also get superior peepers!! Able to see through walls of all sorts!

AND gnomes get a blanket faction bonus! Which is why it wasn't too hard to become beloved by all cities. I can go to halas, surefall (including druids at rings), qeynos, rivervale, kaladim, kelethin, freeport, neriak, erudin...all without skeleton form!

And with skeleton form go into grobb and ogok.

An iksar would be hated everywhere. Just for an AC bonus??

I dunno, gnome bone knights is mighty powerful. Let alone being around so long and collecting ancient treasures. It will be a long long time till an iksar can really challenge the greatness of gnomes (and even then, they will have trouble matching gnomes). By the time the first young iksar bone knight is born, with great dreams in their eyes.... Palabin the ancient bone knight will already be clad in fine golden armor forged by the efreetis!! An achievement (and AC boost) that an iksar wouldn't be able to achieve for a looonggg time after.

[strongNpretty]

Bump for Gnome Necro's :)

[BlooDReDRagE]

Free bump, for how cool this idea is. Trying it out myself on my first character coming back into EQ. Sounds a lot cooler of an idea than just dumping my starting stats into INT.

[Ivory]

Free bump, for how cool this idea is. Trying it out myself on my first character coming back into EQ. Sounds a lot cooler of an idea than just dumping my starting stats into INT.

I wrote a guide for it even! https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368553

[Baler]

I wrote a guide for it even! https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368553

Make a wiki guide :)

[Natewest1987]

How bad is this going to suck when the low skill cap won’t hit anything and bone knights have capped max melee damage ? ?

Curious before I start down this path

[BlooDReDRagE]

How bad is this going to suck when the low skill cap won’t hit anything and bone knights have capped max melee damage ? ?

Curious before I start down this path

I considered the same thing. By then, you could probably just transfer back into the "normal" necro roll. I assume, because I am super low level still, that the Bone Knight build makes leveling faster than going the normal route, making the build at least worth it in that aspect. Am I right?

[greatdane]

I can't see it working very well past level 30, and definitely not in the latter half of Kunark content. People seem to vastly overestimate the tanking power of a character with like 6-700 AC and practically no defensive skills. It's a gimmick that might be fun to try, but anyone who thinks this is some kind of genuinely viable alternate necromancer playstyle will be disappointed. You probably shouldn't think of this as anything other than a different way to level a necro twink up to 30ish.

If they removed the melee damage cap for casters and you get your hands on a Rod of Annihilation, it's possible that the DPS would be almost kind of okayish against very low blues. That's a pretty high bar. And if you think you'll do good DPS with a Staff of Writhing just because you stuck 25 points into dex, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Don't get too carried away by this melee encromancer fantasy.

[BlooDReDRagE]

I always have been curious as to why necros start with more dex at character creation, and has green text on the number to indicate it's a recommended stat. Exactly why is that?

[Shourty]

If you are going to be staben and stuff wouldn't the silver chitin wraps be a good idea?

[Ivory]

I can't see it working very well past level 30, and definitely not in the latter half of Kunark content. People seem to vastly overestimate the tanking power of a character with like 6-700 AC and practically no defensive skills

I'm level 50, and I still tank. I can face tank ice giants, or dar ghouls ... or even go toe to toe with a belted frenzy in lower guk (it's how I fight them, sometimes they might get some good hits in... but I just gotta take a step back to let pet take over the agro and lifetap and then jump back in if they get too many strong shots off).

It's night and day my ability to tank compared to a "normal" necromancer. I was with a wizard down there once, who had what a normal necromancer would have in terms of armor... and the frogs shredded him.

The 51+ game is gonna be interesting though, but I think I can keep up with proper armor.

How bad is this going to suck when the low skill cap won’t hit anything and bone knights have capped max melee damage ? ?

Curious before I start down this path

My parses in plane of hate were showing my hit rate was about the same as full melees (hit rates seem to have a wide range per fight for everyone).

And my sustained melee DPS was going way over anyone elses (I was hitting 100+ DPS combined with my pet, and rogues were doing 30... that's the level of an enchanter charmed planar mob in terms of damage output).

And yea, there is capped max melee damage...of 146 damage per swing. I'd be ok meleeing for that much without a restriction on enemy type though. On top of the pet damage, that definitely would be enough to put bone knights at top DPS in kunark era.

I always have been curious as to why necros start with more dex at character creation, and has green text on the number to indicate it's a recommended stat. Exactly why is that?

Is because of their vampiric embrace, a self buff that adds a lifetap proc to all of their attacks. And then also some pretty nice proc weapons too (staff of undead legions turns a bone knight into a top DPS against undead).

If you are going to be staben and stuff wouldn't the silver chitin wraps be a good idea?

Those is no good, 22% haste isn't so great (and it's velious era!), with low AC. I'm aiming for high quality melee haste...so 41% in kunark.

Look at these potatoes!! https://wiki.project1999.com/Grey_Suede_Boots

[Zoolander]

How bad is this going to suck when the low skill cap won’t hit anything and bone knights have capped max melee damage ? ?

Curious before I start down this path

actually, u don't need to hit anything, u just need to PROC with high DEX.

that compared with stacked leach spells works but yeah, noone confirmed yet if 50+ works too.

[Noselacri]

Yeah, but proccing a 50pt DD 1.5 times a minute won't impress anyone.

[Ivory]

Yeah, but proccing a 50pt DD 1.5 times a minute won't impress anyone.

Vampiric embrace is 62 damage lifetap...

Staff of the undead legions is 585 DD to undead...

with a 2 proc per minute rate (average)

That's 1294 damage per minute, or 21.6 DPS....just in procs.

On a raid at level 50 in the planes, a rogue is doing about 30 DPS.

So suddenly a meleeing necro + pet can equal some pretty nice DPS. And the 2 proc per minute is average, that's why you see the damage goes from 40- 100 + DPS... because some fights you can get a couple procs in a row, making that fight spike up. And other fights maybe you only do your melee damage (which isn't nothing) and a couple vampiric embraces instead of the big ones.

But that's just procs. Necros at 50 can definitely land raw damage melee hits (with my staff, I can hit for 40-50 just in melee damage).

That's why I have hope for the rod of annihilation, I think with good haste and strength... I can get my sustained melee DPS up to a respectable level.

[Natewest1987]

Ok. I’m trying it. Anyone have a shimmering orb or crookstinger for sale ? Have been in game sconce like a month after green / teal merge, but might as well join the legion of bone knights.

[Anxarcule]

Ivory do you stream at all? Would love to watch how this build plays out :)

[Shac]

Make a battle cleric next, call it a palabin!

[majorwalrus]

Ivory do you stream at all? Would love to watch how this build plays out :)

I would love to see a stream or a recording too!

[N0tClassic]

How would a Human perform with this spec

[Morton Jr]

Battle clerics with proc hammers you summon were amazing

Adding haste in old EQ Made you proc less btw ( EQ Emulator is nerfed tho )

[Zoolander]

How would a Human perform with this spec

ive tried it and It worked up to 25 where I stoped.

as human u will have close to none int as a human necro with an AC/DEX build (below 100int with ec-tunnel gear and with dex invested at creation)

[Natewest1987]

Tried it as well, though only for an afternoon - so just a bit. Made it to level 9 pretty quickly.

It was fun for a little bit, but I was maybe seeing 1.5 proc average per fight depending on its length. Usually had two procs of vampiric embrace. I know different weapons probably have different ppm, but any proc that would actually make a difference is gated by level and coin anyway. This might be fun for someone rolling around with the undead staff - in a fight lasting long enough to proc it, but otherwise it’s just not gonna be that fun.

Now if I could have the dagger of conflagration from kunark... maybe.

Also I think comparing it’s damage output to a charm pet is a little misleading. Like was that charm pet haste buffed + item haste, dex buffed, and given proc weapons ? Because otherwise it’s not doing it’s full potential either

[Ivory]

Also I think comparing it’s damage output to a charm pet is a little misleading. Like was that charm pet haste buffed + item haste, dex buffed, and given proc weapons ? Because otherwise it’s not doing it’s full potential either

A necromancer can charm a high level undead, give them all the same things.

So bone knights "could" go past an enchanters sustained pet damage even. Just on a raid usually not everyone who can charm a pet is charming a pet... and for casual hunting, it's a pain keeping stuff charmed (and is more risky).

Why mess with a charmed pet and risk a troublesome break... when you can just rampage with a trusty bones instead?

[Ivory]

I would love to see a stream or a recording too!

I made a video, except I recorded in low resolution by accident https://youtu.be/Upl7ZhP1eSU

First was melee slaying a giant.

Then I went to guk and cleared from the safe hall to the lord room.... and also 2 more off towards frenzy in 25 minute. But that includes buffing and making pets.

So is pretty good pace.

[majorwalrus]

I made a video, except I recorded in low resolution by accident https://youtu.be/Upl7ZhP1eSU

First was melee slaying a giant.

Then I went to guk and cleared from the safe hall to the lord room.... and also 2 more off towards frenzy in 25 minute. But that includes buffing and making pets.

So is pretty good pace.

This is GREAT! I wanted to see this build in action at level 50. Thanks for the video!

[Tunabros]

I made a video, except I recorded in low resolution by accident https://youtu.be/Upl7ZhP1eSU

First was melee slaying a giant.

Then I went to guk and cleared from the safe hall to the lord room.... and also 2 more off towards frenzy in 25 minute. But that includes buffing and making pets.

So is pretty good pace.

ok im sold im gonna make a bone knight now

[jolanar]

Man it would be super neat if there was a way for a bone knight to cast all the same spells but not have to be in melee range.

[Ivory]

Man it would be super neat if there was a way for a bone knight to cast all the same spells but not have to be in melee range.

Being melee is what makes it so stronk. Pets trying to tank isn't so great. You end up in a race to kill the target before they outpace you in your pet healing (shadow pact is good, but it's only like 80 healing a tick.... pets can't last alone like that, especially not in a fast pace of fighting). That's why usually necros will fear kite instead, to save their pets from damage (which is a good way to fight! I do ice giants like that, but not the best option in a lot of situations).

So you are filling in the weakness of the pets healing by tanking yourself (since you can heal yourself really good). Then the pet becomes more like a strategic shield. Send in first to start the fight and set up your lifetap.... then before it gets too hurt, jump in and melee while it heals through its lifetap proc and natural regen.

You can FAR FAR outtank your pet until 40's... then the pet becomes pretty decent at taking hits, but still isn't like a mage earth pet or anything.

And the melee of boneknight isn't shabby either (it works out to be a lot better DPS over X amount of time than the mana could get you from medding.... ESPECIALLY since most of the damage is going to be dot damage, and mobs will die before you get a full dot duration off).

It's all about minimizing downtime and being the most efficient in terms of damage and recovery.... which anyone who has tried it past 20 or so knows about. Once you find yourself in unrest and clearing the entire yard non-stop alone or with a duo partner.... well, that never stops.

I've tested how a normal necromancer and a tanking strategy works against each other. In sky on the first island, there was one mob up... and me and another necromancer were seeing who could hurt it furthest before needing to feign.

By using my mana to trade off tanking with my pet, I was able to get it hurt it with melee twice as much as they were with dots (their pet just died too fast and he wasn't able to keep up, then needed to feign).

We both took a couple stabs at it too, so it was our prefered strategies against an unfearable mob (though, after that I used hate-kiting to get it down really low! But then I made a mistake of trying to unsummon my pet to reset the agro, and discovered the island was too small to give me time to resummon it... and I was too lazy to try again. But that's really similar to fear kiting since you need so much room, but good against monk GMs and things, like I killed the monk GM in qeynos like that, the one that enrages when low and all them things)

Anyhow.... bone knights is strong!! And also, gnomes is great!

[Natewest1987]

Ivory do you have any comments for efficiency through the leveling process? Obviously it works fine with your current end game setup, but how did this fare before you had access to these toys?

Were you able to tank sand giants when it was level appropriate and you had level appropriate gear?

[Ivory]

Ivory do you have any comments for efficiency through the leveling process? Obviously it works fine with your current end game setup, but how did this fare before you had access to these toys?



Sand giants is still dark blue at 50.

But the efficiency of bone knight has always been top notch. The power really became obvious when I went to unrest and was non-stop killin the entire yard of even and some yellow and blue cons.

Then I went to permafrost, and the same thing... was able to kill a heck of a lot. Though I was duoing a lot there (with a monk, or a wizard, or sometimes a shaman)

And then cazic thule I soloed the maze and was slayin a bunch too.... and then as I got higher, I was able to take down the pyramid with all the harm touching mobs pretty easily (still very level appropriate).

Then it was guk and slayin everything.

Though as I leveled up higher, i definitely felt the inherent fragility more. Before mid 40's I was outtanking my pet easily. But after mid 40's I had to start letting my pet tank a little more and back up when I was hurt to heal off damage.

The thing is, while I was leveling up in groups... I'd always be tanking in groups (most of the times groups would think I was joking about wanting to tank, until I did it and they saw me tank....lol).

Before 40 I could easily outtank real tanks (since the lifetap dots made up a lot for things). Then after 40 I was still tanking in groups a LOT....especially in situations where the healer was getting low on mana and needed a rest, that was my chance to step in and tank for a while, exhausting my mana to heal myself for a while.... and by the time I needed to rest, the healer had mana again and I could stop using my mana much (so then i could take turns recovering).

I remember one group where the paladin was getting angry that I kept trying to tank, but he was just draining SOOO much mana from the healers and it was slowing everything down. Eventually I got him to stop trying to taunt-battle me... and he realized just how bonkers my tanking was. Since if I stay in lich form, I can melee non stop...and always have my lifetap dot up... and now and then throw out an extra lifetap, without dropping my mana that low (the video you can see some of my pace, I don't really use much mana to fight, especially in a group where the fights are shorter and there are little rests between).

And now that I'm 50. Mobs hit hard and can get a few good rounds off, and I don't have a giant hitpoint pool.... so I gotta take a step back and wait a few ticks for the healing to take effect, or use a lifetap and get back in. Which makes it harder to main tank without backing up and without needing any other patch healing. But at 53 (i think?) necros get a REALLY fast lifetap that will be amazing for staying in the fight and not needing to back up.

I also die fast if I get overwhelmed. I can't be like a warrior and shoulder 3 or 4 mobs for a while... it drops me too fast.

But with FD and situational awareness....and using pet to intercept multiples... it's not too hard to handle a lot of mobs in less brute force ways (when I was leveling, I'd often fight 2 or 3 at the same time, my pet fighting one thing...and me fighting something else, and keeping a 3rd mezzed).

Were you able to tank sand giants when it was level appropriate and you had level appropriate gear?

Also I wasn't that twinked when I was leveling. The only other character I had was Pockete...and a level 20 rogue can only twink so much. Just some weapons and some things like the sleeves or hat. I didn't even have HP rings until 30 or 40.

I met another bone knight recently who was completely outfitting themselves at just level 12!! farming orc belts and funding everything they needed. So with some effort, anyone can do this type of thing. It isn't like a fungi rogue or something super expensive in order to do.

[Jibartik]

I also die fast if I get overwhelmed. I can't be like a warrior and shoulder 3 or 4 mobs for a while... it drops me too fast.



isnt it reletivly easy to maintain singles as a necro doing this?

Curious what each fight "feels like"

do you just grab a mob, and facetank it right there? engulf dark, so it cant run, and just kill it on the spot?

I kind of like the idea of like a single 1v1 fight, no pets, no worry about needing space, just a little realistate to melee in, just you and a small hallway?

Sounds super fun, I want to do this!!!!!

[Ivory]

isnt it reletivly easy to maintain singles as a necro doing this?

Curious what each fight "feels like"

do you just grab a mob, and facetank it right there? engulf dark, so it cant run, and just kill it on the spot?

I kind of like the idea of like a single 1v1 fight, no pets, no worry about needing space, just a little realistate to melee in, just you and a small hallway?

Sounds super fun, I want to do this!!!!!

Why wouldn't you use a pet?? If I'm trying to exp or kill something hard, I always use a pet....

If I'm just running by and I see something I want to slay (like a hill giant), then I don't use a pet and go melee it.

I also rarely darkness things. Usually things die before they can really run that far (though I'll darkness if I'm right in the middle of a bunch of things and only camping one mob near too much other stuff).

Also single pulling as a necro is SUPERRR easy. You just screaming terror something on its spawn point... that social agros whatever is nearby. Then once they come, FD and stand up (it should clear the one that was terrored on the spawn point)... then if 2 come, screaming terror one while you slay the other.

[enjchanter]

Jorell invented this technique a long time ago and is the champion bone knight of there is one.

Dude lifetap tanked phinny solo ffs

[Maelstrom]

Jorell invented this technique a long time ago and is the champion bone knight of there is one.

Dude lifetap tanked phinny solo ffs

Yep. Necro melee dps isn't anything new. Mobs hit harder once Kunark comes out, and other methods may become more effective.

I love your passion though. Keep experimenting!

[Mayge]

Drain tanking is a pretty old strategy. It certainly was not invented on p99.

[Donkey Hotay]

I'm going to call bullshit on you 'this was done a long time ago but good for you' copers. There wasn't anyone doing or talking about this until Ivory started posting here about it and anyone that tries it sees it absolutely dominates over conventional necro play in Classic.

Your overgeared raider larper on Blue in 201-whatever might have tried it for nerd points but Ivory showed it is literally the best way to play this class on Green as it stands.

[Natewest1987]

What kind of gear did you have in the teens?

[Baler]

video of an SK getting real close to soloing a cliff golem, I think they could do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIb859Cg5ZM
(not my vid)

[Oddbaal]

Lol so many doubters. With a keen eye for detail one truth prevails!

[Ivory]

I'm going to call bullshit on you 'this was done a long time ago but good for you' copers. There wasn't anyone doing or talking about this until Ivory started posting here about it and anyone that tries it sees it absolutely dominates over conventional necro play in Classic.

Your overgeared raider larper on Blue in 201-whatever might have tried it for nerd points but Ivory showed it is literally the best way to play this class on Green as it stands.

-nods nods nods-

Though, it don't matter if it's something new, or if it is just ancient bone knowledge lost to time... being rediscovered by the gnomes and quietly cultivated and practiced... perfected...

Then rumors spreading of this great power and disciples from across Norrath springing up to seek after the power for themselves!!! Even dreaming to surpass Palabin, the bone knight some day.... will the iksars be able to surpass the powers the gnomes have achieved?? Even despite the gnomes using fine armors forged by the efreetis themselves?!

Now it is ushering in the rebirth of ancient techniques and powers only dreamed of in days long past!!!!!

Is like stumbling upon a temple of the shissar and learning how to fight in the ways of the shissar!! Maybe they invented it first, but it was lost to time by an ancient race of people!! Now it is being brought back into our era, and it is exciting times!

How far can this power go?!?! How strong is it truly?! No one knows yet!!! But I want to find out, go where no gnome has gone before. See if I can truly go beyond the limits of what was thought possible... and become a bone knight capable of fighting in ways thought unpossible before!!!

But first, I must travel to new lands to uncover ancient artifacts thought lost to time. I must seek out an ancient weapon of great power... that few have even seen.... the rod of annihilation!! Then on to finer armors and uncovering greater magics.

For ak'anon!!!!!!!

((P.S. The best of the best tournament some day is gonna be fun... I wonder how traditional necromancers will do against a fully equipped bone knight master.. mu ha ha ha ha))

[Jibartik]

oh i guess yeah you have a pet but I guess I assumed this class felt more like an SK using a pet, which is more like just a little budy DPS, as opposed to like, fearing and keeping distance and managing your pet, while you try to do 50% with spells

on that 50% im sure you answered this already but is it like, no brainer that you do the more damage to get exp this way?

[Ivory]

oh i guess yeah you have a pet but I guess I assumed this class felt more like an SK using a pet, which is more like just a little budy DPS, as opposed to like, fearing and keeping distance and managing your pet, while you try to do 50% with spells

on that 50% im sure you answered this already but is it like, no brainer that you do the more damage to get exp this way?

Oh nope, you don't outdamage the pet, especially at later levels (I guess maybe some fights against undead and the staff you can?). If you try to outdamage the pet, you are just blowing away a ton of mana and increasing downtime by a lot.

Instead it makes up for the EXP loss by being super efficient and killing more mobs.

And that's why I prefer to at least duo... because I'm not giving up any exp having someone else in the group (they just cancel out the pet EXP loss, which keeps my rate the same).

Then no matter what they are doing (nuking a little as a wizard, helping to dps some, healing, whatever) it's just speeding up my kill rate and increasing my exp.

It's just super consistent and reliable exping (and fast exp rate).

[Whoop]

Is this build worth a try even tho you never going to raid sky? Golden efreeti armor is so superior in ac then anything else...

[Asteria]

Necro pets are HEAVILY nerfed on eq emulator, Minion of shadows is heavily nerfed on p99

Casters dont do any melee dmg also drugs and hormone pills

This isn't RnF and you clearly have no RL social life :o:o:o

[Ivory]

Is this build worth a try even tho you never going to raid sky? Golden efreeti armor is so superior in ac then anything else...

Efreeti armor is nice, but not really that bananas.

The arms you can get cheap azur sleeves which are the same 12 AC.

Bracer has just 8 AC, and symbol of loyalty to vox has 7 ac... so not really missing much there.

Pants you aren't going to get to the 15 ac of efreeti legs.... but you can get 7 or 8 AC pretty easily.

And the BP has 20 ac, but you can 14 - 17 ac pretty easily (especially with kunark).

Then just try to make up a little AC other places (like if you are an iksar, you already can't wear efreeti armor... but their natural AC bonus makes up for it... and if you are a non-gnome, you have flayed skin armor which is pretty good).

Yea, losing a few points of AC isn't a big deal. Especially since you might want some things that give better stats....especially for things like Tolapumj's Robe when kunark comes (it's 14 ac, but gives STR, INT, and 36% haste!... golden efreeti gives 20 ac, same str, and then wisdom, which is useless).