Is the UN a way to reduce GM workload or a GM enforced Mafia? [Green]

[Trippy]

I'll preface this by saying I fully support the existence of the UN, and I don't believe it is a Mafia, but got worried when reading the quote further on in this post.

It is sensible to have dialogue between guilds and to have an agreed upon framework to work within that reduce stress and workload on the long suffering, unpaid, staff (i.e. the GMs) that very kindly give their time to help us play on this server together.

What I have been seeing on the UN discord recently seems to indicate that server rules do not apply if enough guilds on the server say that it is so.

Lineage, as many of you will know, left the UN a month or two ago. We did this for various reasons that have not been well communicated to others, a good chunk of the blame for that goes on our guild leader Maibbin. He is good at leading raids, he is good at inspiring a whole group of people to go at things as one, he is good at EQ the game.... He is not good at diplomacy, he is not good at negotiating, he is not good at not pissing people off.

We [the guild] have asked he take a step back from speaking on our behalf, we love him, we appreciate him, we want him as a leader in many ways... but we do not want things he says at heated moments defining us as a guild. He understands this and has agreed.

We've had other people attempting to negotiate for us for sky rotations in the UN, they have been met with statements like this:

Phatez Today at 6:23 PM
I am going to ask the GM to enforce whatever rotation the UN comes up with so you can't muck it up.

I guess my question here is, in this instance a representative (former guild leader) of the top guild on the server - Seal Team - an there's no debate there, I appreciate you guys are VERY good at this game, you are dominating things due to your dedication, understanding of mechanics and cleverly using every aspect of that to your advantage [this is not sarcastic I respect what you do].

What I do take exception to is the notion that GMs will enforce the rotation that you have defined, and if people go against it there will be GM consequences?!

Is this classic Everquest or not? You play on p99 but you seem to want the equivalent of instanced content when it suits you.

[Trippy]

Plese ignore "I guess my question here is" at the start of the last bit. did not proof read -50dkp

[Ripqozko]

Consider not mucking it up

[kudlezz]

What precisely is your goal here? To race / contest everything and circumvent the UN? Because then you’ll just have every guild, Seal Team included, there to compete and ensure you don’t “muck it up.”

The UN is trying to build consensus and agreement amongst a lot of different competing interests. In the words of the above poster, consider not mucking it up.

GM enforcement of such policies is quite classic. They kept the peace in creative ways. This would be no different.

[onlyrockerfan]

when your coveted leader has run his mouth and destroyed any goodwill you have you can expect to be met with comments like that. he was told numerous times that everyone wanted to work with him and he demanded the moon (36 hours in sky) and wouldn't negotiate. he got mad and took his ball home and then this new representative of officers wants to come and pretend like maibbin didn't say stupid shit. you had your chance and he fucked it up. work on repairing the distrust and you guys will get your fair share.

[the_finn]

I remember, back in the day, when live first came out... I remember when the largest guild on the server decided to make everyone else do rotations on the content when it was convenient for their schedule. When in order to get time in new content you had to join their fan club and prove yourself to them or else they would petition you to the GMs the second you showed up in "their" zone. And the GMs would message them in public forums and say things like "just LMK if issues arise with them in sky today".

I remember when the planes came out and the big guild told people that they were going to hold it for two weeks and the other guilds could come up whenever they say it's okay. And the GMs supported it. I remember all those good times so well...

Wait, hold on a minute.... That P99, and is the opposite of the spirit of Everquest... never mind, I must be drunk.

[the_finn]

I love content like this:

Perplexa <Kingdom>Today at 12:21 PM
Seems very silly, ST got what 16 clears of sky so far. Fed has gotten 8, Lineage 1
Phatez <Seal Team> Today at 12:21 PM
2 weeks
That was when the formal rotation was going to start from the begining.
2 weeks is on friday... we are having a meeting to formalize slots tonight.
Galach <GM> Today at 12:21 PM
just LMK if issues arise with them in sky today

[the_finn]

At least DMO gets it

Jack <Dark Men of Odus>Today at 12:25 PM
wait you mean each guild in the federation doesn't get the same number of slots as ST??
???


But you gotta love moments when you get to remember that the UN is Seal Team's. Through and through. (as well as ... all of the participants of the convos)

Perplexa <Kingdom>Today at 12:33 PM
Why does ST have permissions to kick without the mod role?
Phatez <Seal Team> Today at 12:33 PM
This is my server

[salren]

I am unbiased as I don't play on green, but I am curious about this general question.

My understanding was that GMs enforce player-made agreements. So, if guilds A, B, and C (the UN) made an agreement to do a Sky rotation, and then guild B showed up during guild A's slot, a GM would enforce the player-made agreement between these guilds.

However, guild D is not part or party to any of the agreements between A, B, and C. So there is no agreement here for a GM to enforce.

Yes? No?

[lullzy]

[1:14 PM] Galach: @Phatez
[1:15 PM] Phatez: He accepted 12h of uncontested sky, and was aware that we were moving to a permanent rotation on friday.
[1:15 PM] Perplexa <Kingdom>: Vill I think you were told to stop kicking people you dont agree with
[1:15 PM] Phatez: I kicked him
[1:15 PM] Phatez: After accepting his 12h of uncontested 2-4, per our player agreement, he then contested ST sky last night.
[1:15 PM] Phatez: AFAIK he was brought back to this channel to discuss sky. Something he has proven he is unwilling to do.
[1:16 PM] Perplexa <Kingdom>: What exactly was the whole agreement though?
[1:16 PM] Phatez: We are discussing the long term agreement tonight at midnight.
[1:16 PM] Phatez: For this week they were given 12h uncontested.
[1:16 PM] Phatez: We also let them loot our key rots on island 2-4 the last couple of days, for nothing in return.
[1:17 PM] Phatez: Last night they decided to kill our Gorg on spawn.
[1:17 PM] Phatez: NayrueToday at 1:04 PM
we're contesting everyone until we got a slot
[1:21 PM] Perplexa <Kingdom>: Seems very silly, ST got what 16 clears of sky so far. Fed has gotten 8, Lineage 1
[1:21 PM] Phatez: 2 weeks
[1:21 PM] Phatez: That was when the formal rotation was going to start from the begining.
[1:21 PM] Phatez: 2 weeks is on friday... we are having a meeting to formalize slots tonight.
[1:21 PM] Galach: just LMK if issues arise with them in sky today
[1:23 PM] Perplexa <Kingdom>: I really dont understand the logic behind allowing competitive sky. Feds pretty much took the short end of the stick just to save all the possible headaches. We were content however. I do sympathize with Lineages position of being told you only get 1 slot after fighting tooth and nail for it.
[1:23 PM] Phatez: The biggest issue I have with it, Perplexa, is that they agreed to 12h uncontested. As soon as that ended they went right back to stealing mobs in sky.
[1:23 PM] Phatez: My plan I was going to discuss tonight was 2.5 slots Fed, 2.5 slots ST, 2 slots lineage, 1 FOH 1 CI
[1:23 PM] Legendarymonk <Venerate>: It's crazy because as soon as it was done he was right back to being maibbin
[1:23 PM] Phatez: 5 slots open raid
[1:24 PM] Phatez: thats what i was going to propose at least
[1:24 PM] Phatez: I really don't think I am the bad guy here. Maybe I am.
[1:25 PM] Jack <Dark Men of Odus>: wait you mean each guild in the federation doesn't get the same number of slots as ST??
[1:25 PM] Jack <Dark Men of Odus>: ???
[1:25 PM] Phatez: We gotta discuss it tonight...
[1:26 PM] Phatez: I asked Pac to brainstorm how to divy up the 9 slots as well... I wanted to see what he came up with.
[1:26 PM] Phatez: My opinion is Mon-Fri AM open raid
[1:26 PM] Phatez: which leaves 9 slots, Mon-Fri PM, Sat/Sun AM/PM
[1:32 PM] Perplexa <Kingdom>: Phatez, was it actually you that kicked Nayrue though?
[1:32 PM] Vill <Seal Team>: It was
[1:33 PM] Perplexa <Kingdom>: How
[1:33 PM] Vill <Seal Team>: What do you mean, how?
[1:33 PM] Phatez: right click
[1:33 PM] Phatez: bann player
[1:33 PM] Phatez: right click
[1:33 PM] Phatez: kick player
[1:33 PM] Perplexa <Kingdom>: Why does ST have permissions to kick without the mod role?
[1:33 PM] Phatez: This is my server
[1:33 PM] Perplexa <Kingdom>: ah I see

[the_finn]

salren, you are correct. That's how Green works. lol, welcome to the party

[the_finn]

Wait!

CORRECTION

Question was: However, guild D is not part or party to any of the agreements between A, B, and C. So there is no agreement here for a GM to enforce.

Answer is:
The GMs are in guild A, so if guild D does not comply, the GMs and the large guilds will just bully them out of the game. Get them banned from locations, do GM petitions against them (that the GM who is in A is literally the judge on). It's a pretty neat system.

[cd288]

Wait!

CORRECTION

Question was: However, guild D is not part or party to any of the agreements between A, B, and C. So there is no agreement here for a GM to enforce.

Answer is:
The GMs are in guild A, so if guild D does not comply, the GMs and the large guilds will just bully them out of the game. Get them banned from locations, do GM petitions against them (that the GM who is in A is literally the judge on). It's a pretty neat system.

I believe the actual GMs aren’t allowed to play on P99

[Fammaden]

I am unbiased as I don't play on green, but I am curious about this general question.

My understanding was that GMs enforce player-made agreements. So, if guilds A, B, and C (the UN) made an agreement to do a Sky rotation, and then guild B showed up during guild A's slot, a GM would enforce the player-made agreement between these guilds.

However, guild D is not part or party to any of the agreements between A, B, and C. So there is no agreement here for a GM to enforce.

Yes? No?

Theoretically but the guild in question, Lineage, has not been in any way prepared to go toe-to-toe with ST or Fed on this content so it doesn't really matter. And this is why guild stay in the UN, they'd prefer to get some slots in sky than to end up on the outside looking in like Lineage.

If a guild that had the power and determination to actually snipe significant content were to buck the UN and go rogue that would be interesting. But that's not where we are and isn't about to change. Kunark will see a bigger shakeup in how these guilds all interact on the whole, since it will all be contested long window repop targets, rather than the current classic planar trash clears which everyone is motivated to rotate and share.

Another issue though is what was seen both in Fear early on and in Sky recently with Lineage trying to force their way in, it just became a DPS race on stupid trash mobs at their spawn point while expecting GM's to study each mob's identifier and look at the server log to verify who got the FTE. Which is absurd to expect of them. I assume that's related to Galach's quote about letting him know for any issues, the issues would be KS'ing each other on sky trash.

[salren]

Okay, sure. That makes a lot of sense.

[the_finn]

Theoretically but the guild in question, Lineage, has not been in any way prepared to go toe-to-toe with ST or Fed on this content so it doesn't really matter. And this is why guild stay in the UN, they'd prefer to get some slots in sky than to end up on the outside looking in like Lineage.

If a guild that had the power and determination to actually snipe significant content were to buck the UN and go rogue that would be interesting. But that's not where we are and isn't about to change. Kunark will see a bigger shakeup in how these guilds all interact on the whole, since it will all be contested long window repop targets, rather than the current classic planar trash clears which everyone is motivated to rotate and share.

Another issue though is what was seen both in Fear early on and in Sky recently with Lineage trying to force their way in, it just became a DPS race on stupid trash mobs at their spawn point while expecting GM's to study each mob's identifier and look at the server log to verify who got the FTE. Which is absurd to expect of them. I assume that's related to Galach's quote about letting him know for any issues, the issues would be KS'ing each other on sky trash.


Your getting close man, but you still can't see the underlying issue. You said:
Theoretically but the guild...has not been in any way prepared to go toe-to-toe...so it doesn't really matter.
So you are literally saying this is actually run in that way, and since it has not actually been challenged yet it doesn't really matter.

Your closing statement of:
...expecting GM's to study each mob's identifier and look at the server log to verify who got the FTE. Which is absurd to expect of them.
I fully agree with you. Pretty sure guild D did not file a single petition as they did not expect the GMs to do the studying, however, the A, B, C guilds (the ones that agreed with each other when they can go where) feel entitled to the zone and therefore did file petitions. So, yeah, "Which is absurd to expect of them."

[Arvan]

Everquest isnt a difficult or skill based game but to answer the question yeah the un is both a thing to reduce gms headaches and also a mafia

[Tethler]

Blue has a GM enforced sky rotation. The UN on green is pushing for a similar thing.

Lineage didn't want to come to the table to negotiate in good faith,　Maibbin　said　he　wanted　to　"eat　the　table"　(whatever　that　means, lol).　Even　through　all　of　his　shenanigans, there is still a spot for Lineage in the proposed rotation that is currently being discussed. Your just no longer have much standing to make demands or requests since everyone is pissed.

Ya'll wanted to go rogue and step on the toes of every raiding guild on the server, this is the result. You'll get your time in sky carved out, which is more than you probably deserve at this point.

[Lostfaction]

Everquest is a game of diplomacy. Losers lose.

[AgentEpilot]

I believe the actual GMs aren’t allowed to play on P99

Just not the server they GM for.

[Arvan]

Most (all?) of them used to play here though i do believe

[cd288]

Your getting close man, but you still can't see the underlying issue. You said:
Theoretically but the guild...has not been in any way prepared to go toe-to-toe...so it doesn't really matter.
So you are literally saying this is actually run in that way, and since it has not actually been challenged yet it doesn't really matter.

Your closing statement of:
...expecting GM's to study each mob's identifier and look at the server log to verify who got the FTE. Which is absurd to expect of them.
I fully agree with you. Pretty sure guild D did not file a single petition as they did not expect the GMs to do the studying, however, the A, B, C guilds (the ones that agreed with each other when they can go where) feel entitled to the zone and therefore did file petitions. So, yeah, "Which is absurd to expect of them."

This whole thread sounds like guild D essentially saying “hey look at all these other people agreeing to get along and share to some extent, we don’t like that so we’re gonna just try and take everything we can.” Then guild D fails and complains that there is an agreed upon rotation between the group of guilds that GuildD to try and screw over. I guess I can respect the gamble...but it didn’t work so now you guys are essentially screwed because you tried to be pixel hungry jerks

[cd288]

That guild d left to try and screw over*

[Nuggie]

I applaud you guys(Lineage) for doing for Lineage what BDA couldn't do. Pull a less than perfect public figure off to the side to mitigate the damage.

From the outside looking in I would imagine whatever direction Maibbin took Lineage was the perceived direction that the rest of the UN saw as the direction the guild in general wanted to go. Thereby lumping everyone into the same category. Which is hard not to do when most, Im making a big assumption here, of the guild(Lineage) shows up to support said direction(eat the table).

I would suggest making sacrifices the way DMO did to help repair faction loss. Rejoin UN. Get slots. Forfeit a number of those slots in an effort to repair hurt feelings.

Good luck Elf pals

[Scalem]

Maybe Lineage wouldn’t be in this position if they didn’t have an absolute psycho speaking and leading them. Have fun “eating the table.”

[Tankwipe]

What we really need to talk about here is: What do we do with the chairs once the table is gone?
I say we make Lineage eat those too, that'll teach em

[Babittle]

the Leader acted like a cox n bowls... u guys paying for it for a little bit... its ok thats life. next time choose leader wiser. you still at the table .. grab a plate. dont let anyone in ur guild be a dick for a week ...everyone will forget about it ... then we can all go back to food posts. kthnxbye

[RecondoJoe]

Just not the server they GM for.

I'm like, really positive that a GM whose name I'm not going to mention does play on Green, which I personally don't have a problem with given the fact that there's basically only 2 servers, and a lot of people genuinely prefer playing on Green for a fresh and new experience.

[RecondoJoe]

It's pretty common on other MMOs for the Guild Leader and Raid Leader to be separate positions entirely.

I kind of fall under the category of someone who helps lead a lot of raids despite being too anti-social to organize one.

[galach]

I'm like, really positive that a GM whose name I'm not going to mention does play on Green, which I personally don't have a problem with given the fact that there's basically only 2 servers, and a lot of people genuinely prefer playing on Green for a fresh and new experience.

false

[Bardp1999]

There was 100% a Guide who played in <Rampage>

[RecondoJoe]

false

Must have been a coincidence, but I was having a conversation with a player who suddenly appeared offline, and then resumed the conversation as... a certain GM.. or Guide. IDK what the difference between Guides and GMs is on P99.

[Skarne]

<Banned>

[cd288]

Guides are allowed to play on the server. Sounds like you’re talking about something you have little knowledge of, and making claims you can’t back up, as per usual

[galach]

Must have been a coincidence, but I was having a conversation with a player who suddenly appeared offline, and then resumed the conversation as... a certain GM.. or Guide. IDK what the difference between Guides and GMs is on P99.

To be eligible, applicants must have accounts relatively free of any recent disciplinary action, and, of course, have a desire to help the P99 community continue to grow and thrive. Guides are asked to provide at least 10 hours per week of service and cannot Guide on a server they actively play on (for example, if you actively play on Green, you can apply to be a Guide on Blue).

[Nuggie]

In the bolded text, should "can" be "can't" ? Otherwise I'm confused.

[Albanwr]

In the bolded text, should "can" be "can't" ? Otherwise I'm confused.

No it basically means if you play on Green you can not be a guide on green, but can be a guide on Blue.

[BenDerisgreat]

No it basically means if you play on Green you can not be a guide on green, but can be a guide on Blue.

Good one!

[ClephNote]

Lineage is being treated FAR too well. You guys are just awful.

[cd288]

Lineage is being treated FAR too well. You guys are just awful.

Yeah I am not a raider so no bias here, and it sounds to me like Lineage should be on their knees begging to be let back into the rotations since they tried to compete and take everything they could but they can’t actually compete. Any scraps they get seem like very generous charity at this point IMO

[Kief]

There was 100% a Guide who played in <Rampage>

This guy is a retard. If the GM's say they are following the rules - why be disrespectful and try to prove otherwise? Oh - could it be because you've been banned so many times? Try not to make your grudge so obvious douche bag.

/wave Galach - <3 from your red brother Guava man!

Blesses.

[Nirgon]

They tolerate way too much scummery and blatant disingenuous bullshit. It has also been proven to be preferable for certain guilds to go around the UN to get lighter sentencing. Huge immersion killer for me personally.

Not a biased opinion, but a fact.

[jmart1983]

Serious question from a super casual player: What is the difference in instancing content vs rotations? Other then overall less pixels. And I suppose what I'm really asking is why would some players both want a rotation AND be opposed to instanced content?

[cd288]

Serious question from a super casual player: What is the difference in instancing content vs rotations? Other then overall less pixels. And I suppose what I'm really asking is why would some players both want a rotation AND be opposed to instanced content?

Instancing means you can do whatever you want whenever you want and basically always guarantee that you get shots at the bosses and mini bosses because it’s your own instance. Raid rotations mean that you raid when you raid and, to a certain extent with certain mobs, you hope that they spawn within their window during your raid time

[getsome]

If the GM's say they are following the rules - why be disrespectful and try to prove otherwise?

You are misinformed.

Many of the guilds I played with on blue had members who were server staff (some with multiple staff). I would surmise the P99 project changed the guidelines of server staff and their personal characters with the introduction of the green server.

[Nuggie]

I've been thinking about the tactics of the OP. In one post they insult the integrity of the GM's and the UN yet ask to be forgiven for their prior transgressions to the UN. Kind of like a Sour Patch Kid. First they're sour, then they're sweet. Very interesting strategy.

[CancerMage]

I think a big turn of from a large amount of the playerbase is how effective the cry to GM strat is. Feigning outrage over something is a huge turn off. and the GM's should put a stop to it.

[Neno]

This guy is a retard. If the GM's say they are following the rules - why be disrespectful and try to prove otherwise?

Yeah, I can't believe that people would ever think that members of the staff here could ever lie or do something shady. 0 precedence. I've definitely never seen or heard of any rule breaking by staff members over the last 11 years.

[Kief]

Amelinda, Derubael and Sirken. 3 Bad apples for 11 years that's not a bad track record as far as people being human and honesty is concerned.

So yeah I think i'll stand behind the people that run a Project i've supported for this long, ya know?

[Uuruk]

Amelinda, Derubael and Sirken. 3 Bad apples for 11 years that's not a bad track record as far as people being human and honesty is concerned.

So yeah I think i'll stand behind the people that run a Project i've supported for this long, ya know?

Yeah and how long was sirken lead gm for lol

[Nirgon]

It's all scum. All of it.

[Coridan]

Surprised Lineage hasn't fallen apart tbh, I sure as hell would have left the guild once they decided to go from scheduled raiding to batphoning for phinny.

[BenDerisgreat]

Surprised Lineage hasn't fallen apart tbh, I sure as hell would have left the guild once they decided to go from scheduled raiding to batphoning for phinny.

Glad someone enjoys their 3 scheduled raid instances. Such variety! Many excite!

[Coridan]

Glad someone enjoys their 3 scheduled raid instances. Such variety! Many excite!

Yeah, I'm not 15 anymore, got shit to do in my life besides poopsock pixels.

[BenDerisgreat]

Yeah, I'm not 15 anymore, got shit to do in my life besides poopsock pixels.

There's a TLP for that.

[Nuggie]

Glad someone enjoys their 3 scheduled raid instances. Such variety! Many excite!

You chat like my 12 year old.

[Coridan]

There's a TLP for that.

If TLPs were remotely like p1999 I might try them, but they're basically unrecognisable from the classic game. And you know what, when I was playing there were dozens of servers so hardcore poopsockers were way more spread out.

[Nirgon]

Surprised Lineage hasn't fallen apart tbh, I sure as hell would have left the guild once they decided to go from scheduled raiding to batphoning for phinny.

Lineage is the best guild for people just getting into the raid scene to join right now.

[reznor_]

Consider not mucking it up

[Baler]

https://i.imgur.com/VF8PIMg.png

[reznor_]

Baler? I hardly KNOW 'er!

[kaev]

I knew there must be a reason Baler never made my ignore list